Why are modern Japanese fantasy authors so bad at worlbuilding?
>>283086845frieren is native isekai
>>283086845Because they draw inspiration from manga, anime, and video games instead of mythology
>>283086912Mythology is old ass cringe
>>283086912It's only going to get worse. All content in the future is going to be made by AI, trained on older AI content, trained on older AI content.
>>283086972We ought to hang AI producers by their intestines
>>283086845Maybe it seems that way because you have not tried finding deeper for the better series out there. For example, have you read Magus of the Library?
instead of building their own original fantasy worlds, they copy and paste from already established ones and change minor details.
>>283086845Imagine how round and noisy Fern's belly is going to be after eating all those sweets. I'd love to listen to her stuffed tummy try to digest it all while gently massaging it to soothe the pain.
>>283086912>>283086939Your fictional world doesn't have to be based on mythology to be good, but I think the point is that the modern Japanese manga/anime/LN/video game ecosystem has become extremely incestuous and otaku dominated so it just feeds on other manga/anime/LN/video games instead of using wider influences. A big part of being a good writer is being well-read, after all. Also, a lot of really good, classic fantasy writers got a lot of inspiration from real world history and their personal lives, not just fiction. Then you look at bad fantasy writers and they basically just rip off other fantasy writers with minor changes.
Then tell us about this your so good world building op kun
>>283086939my loli butt fanservice manga was taking inspiration from norse mythology and it has surprisingly interesting world building
Dragon Quest is the creator of 80% of JRPG tropes.Whenever the word "Yuusha" appears in a manga or anime(Frieren, GuruGuru, etc.), it is without exception a parody/homage to Dragon Quest.
>>283086845You think old ones were better?
>>283087083I still don't understand what the "Hero" class actually is. How is it different from Warrior?
>>283086845And when they do succeed in worldbuilding, you don't notice it because it's so un-Christian and un-European.
>>283087036>a lot of really good, classic fantasy writers got a lot of inspiration from real world->>Howard invented the Hyborian Age as a useful literary device. He had an intense love for history and historical dramas, but he also recognized the difficulties and the time-consuming research work needed in maintaining historical accuracy. Also, the poorly-stocked libraries in the rural part of Texas where Howard lived did not have the material needed for such research. By conceiving a fictional "vanished age" and choosing names that resembled historical ones, Howard avoided anachronisms and the need for lengthy exposition.[2]uoops...
>>283087126Yuusha is not a class or a job, but rather a qualification given to those who save the world, like a messiah.
>>283086912Why not draw inspiration from all 4 of them?
>>283087126only the main character can be a hero, you can't change your class, it's got higher stats and better equipment towards the end game.
>>283086845Because fantasy is not accurate history or mythology, you can have ice cream or other modern invention on your fantasy world as long you can make it coherent, like this modern treaties being created by gnomes who are excellent bakers. Just remember fantasy is not history
>>283087182anon, what do you think the quote you posted implies?
>>283087126The Hero class knows some magic, Warrior doesn't. I guess in DnD terms it would be closest to the Paladin?
>>283087182That quote is saying that he made fantasy worlds that were inspired from real world history. Yes, of course it's not 100% copying real world history, nobody suggested that, if you do that you're doing historical dramas, not fantasy.
>>283087206In some DQ games (like 6 and 7), Hero is indeed a class you can change.
>>283087240Early versions of ice cream were invented in the real world 2500 years ago, and it was introduced to Europe in 1672.
>>283086845they never read Epic Gilgamesh
>>283086845Can you name some examples of good fantasy worldbuilding and explain what makes them good? Is it just the amount of detail? To me a story can only have bad worldbuilding if they lean heavily into but it’s still uninteresting, if a story clearly isn’t focused on it then it isn’t “bad”.
>>283086845Why do you faggots obsess over "muh worldbuilding"? It doesn't fucking matter.
OP just wanted to post Fern eating.
>>283086845Don't forget the video game UI. Ugh, so lazy. Frieren is derivative slop.
>>283087253>and historical dramasHe got inspiration from a show on TV.>the poorly-stocked libraries in the rural part of Texas where Howard lived did not have the material needed for such research. He didn't have books to check up on facts or material for research.>Howard avoided anachronisms He didn't even care if a bunch of anachronisms popped up and it made no sense.You were saying?
jannies delete my comment in the logh thread for being too political while allowing frieren posters to post outside of their designated threads because they want people to read their worthless commentshow is that fair
>>283086845Worldbuildingtards are the biggest midwits of /a/.
>>283087367alright, have a (you), nigga
>humans>elves>mining/crafting race>monsters and demons>optional: beastmen
You really expect me to believe burgers exist in this extremely high fantasy worldMy immersion is ruined
>>283087461That is a comically large burger
>>283087496adventurers are hungry
>>283087496looks average to me
>>283087461Why would you fantasise about a world without giant burgers?
It's kind a fascinating to me that humans have been roasting meat and baking bread for thousands of years, yet we just discovered sandwiches a few hundred years ago
>>283087496This is what they took from you American.
>>283087461do you really believe it took humanity millenia to combine the two most eaten foods together?
>>283086845because instead of the characters uncovering the world by showing and not telling through their adventures, they have info dumps or recycled systems or common lore from videogames people already know.
>>283087496She's a small girl.
>>283086845Why the fuck does a medieval fantasy have desserts that look straight out of Shibuya?
>>283087906I don't think authors care about accuracyLooking at clothes, architecture and technology they probably take anything they like from 'old Europe' instead of going for a medieval setting specifically
Muh worldbuilding is a real brainlet meme these days
>>283086845Incestuous inspiration. Kinda like how Superhero story takes inspiration of older superhero and not the stuff that inspired superhero stuff to begin with
>>283087036>Japanese manga/anime/LN/video game ecosystem has become extremely incestuous and otaku dominated so it just feeds on other manga/anime/LN/video games instead of using wider influences.I feel this is the biggest culprit. For a lot of fantasy anime these days it seems the author is just following a checklist of things that are supposed to be in every fantasy anime/game/LN without actually caring to create a setting beyond copying those tropes, or at least figuring how those tropes would fit together in the world of his story.
>>283086987Can we start with West Taiwan?
>>283086939less cringe than vidya
>>283087661There are older meat and bread foods, but they usually have the meat inside the bread.The ancient Romans did already have what was basically pizza, though: hard flat bread with toppings on it. The main difference to modern pizza is that they didn't have tomato sauce on it since tomatoes are a new-world plant.
>>283086845And the craziest thing is, as bad as they are, they're still leagues better than fucking westoids!
>>283086845dragon quest destroyed them like crack in the ghettos
>>283087906This is exactly what differentiates Western fantasy and weeb-slop fantasy. In a Western fantasy novel, that cake would be replaced by marzipan or seed cake, that parfait would be replaced by butterbug ice cream or an apricot fairy plum smoothie to wash it down, and those pancakes would be replaced by Lembas bread or Kwama Pie.
>>283088182No, first we destroy the United States or America
>>283088275>le dragon quest memeIronic that you would critique anyone's creativity while spouting this /a/ meme
>>283086845Name one good worldbuild beyond Tolkien.
>>283089035Texhnolyze
>>283089035shinsekai yori
>>283087661Putting meat and bread together has been a thing since the beginning of bread making (source: I read old ass culinary texts), the modern idea of sandwich uses a very specific type of white bread that only started being mass produced in the '30s
>>283089035Dune.
>>283089035Asimov
>>283086845Because 90% of their brains is filled with Dragon quest and waifus
>>283087451>humans whites>elvesasians>mining crafting racehispanics>monsters and demonsindians>beastmenblacks
>>283086845because you cant do any better so them trying is good by comparison
>>283089035>Tolkien>good
>>283086912Dungeon Meshi is nothing but D&D autism and it still runs circles around Frieren because the author actually gave a shit about the setting. This is why the manga was beloved for years while nobody had even heard of Frieren before the anime was announced.
>>283086845There is nothing wrong with not reinventing the wheel. Frieren is clearly aiming for a classic pseudo medieval Eurocentrism inspired setting. Key word "inspired". >>283087151Based Seirei no moribito enjoyer, 12 kingdom enjoyers salute you.
>>283089307Dungeon Meshi is nothing but tumblr diversityslop
>>283089035SoIaF even if the actual story isn't great
>>283086845>>283087083It's weird how they always take from dragon quest, but never final fantasy.
The manga authors dont really read a lot of good literature compared to western authors, they mostly consume visual media aimed at kids and in frierens case they aimed to capture the isekai audience who like isekai tropesIdk, maybe they worked out a premise with some editor and then immediately ran out of ideas that match the premise and start relying on isekai tropes since they didnt get negative feedback from the audience.
>>283089503Nigga Martin's worldbuild a complete disaster from start to finish
How does stark handle all of fern
>>283086939I fucking hate gen Z so much.
>>283089068*heavy breathing for 5 episodes before it actually starts* How the fuck did they get away with this?
>>283089590The time travel arc really felt like that, or maybe it was just filler while the anime was in production.
>>283089590>The manga authors dont really read a lot of good literature compared to western authorsAre you implying that Western authors read good literature, when the last 50 years of Western college programs are set to teach to students of literature that all good classics are actually bad and problematic?Do you really believe that the average Western writer is familiar with Homer and can have a discussion about it when Literature Majors graduates cannot even read Dickens at a decent level?READ THIShttps://muse.jhu.edu/article/922346>only five percent of the 85 subjects could follow Dicken's narrativeI'm not joking, shit's fucked up bruh
>>283086845Because they consume japanese media when they're young and then get sent off to the mines to work themselves to death.
>>283089503Martin has no sense of scale. The minute he mentions numbers, he goes full retard.
>>283089590>The manga authors dont really read a lot of good literature compared to western authorsWestern authors are often just as bad, let's be honest. >in frierens case they aimed to capture the isekai audience who like isekai tropesWhat isekai tropes are we talking about here?
>>283089847jrpg party in isekai world with soft magic system doing quests and tournaments experiencing modern jap luxuries without the production methods for said luxuries behing established in any way
>>283089747He really has no concept of logistics whatsoever. How anyone, much less entire armies, gets fed in ASOIAF is simply politely ignored. He just throws out, oh, 100,000 men on the march, for four months.. how the fuck do they manage that in a preindustrial society. They should lose half those men to famine and plague.It's like everyone has the resources of the roman empire without the massive fields of taxed farmland that the roman empire was actually comprised of.
>>283086845That dumb water bitch in booty shorts destroyed the story's setting.
>>283089313>Frieren is clearly aiming for a classic pseudo medieval Eurocentrism inspired setting.It's literally just a generic Dragon Quest world, complete with Maou and Yuusha.
>>283089566Final Fantasy settings actually are pretty creative (or at least were), and too specific to be copied without becoming a blatant rip off.
>>283089973So out of 999 isekai tropes out there, they only barely do 4 and only because one those is "protagonist has companions"?
>>283090038>It's like everyone has the resources of the roman empire without the massive fields of taxed farmland that the roman empire was actually comprised of.It's very funnyMartin is, beyond everything, an average American, so when he thinks Roman Empire (andeven Medieval Europe/Renaissance) he just goes>huge cities, big monuments, enormous armiesWhen that was less than 1% of the reality of the Roman Empire; 99% was farmers doing their stuff, doing some years of forced military duty, then going back to farm 'till their death.Compare to Tolkien, one of the most prominent Medievalist of his time, and you see the difference.The Siege of Minas Tirith is to this day the best pseudo-premodern battle ever written in a fantasy setting because Tolkien's work wasn't writing fantasy, he was a medievalist and his autism about supply chains and army routing is still unmatched.
>>283086845Why is everyone sperging out about this image? You make most of what's there with primitive shit like dairy, wheat, eggs and fruit.
>>283090560Most posters are retarded autists, but those wafers are literally impossible without modern technologyhttps://www.newfoodmagazine.com/article/8661/the-science-behind-the-flat-wafer-baking-process/I am much more annoyed by the fact that Frieren wears what's clearly modern leggings, made of nylon-lycra and not a pre-modern hose in any readily available material of that world, meaning that plastic is a thing in Frieren's worldbuilding and only used for her leg warmers apparently
>>283090685They have magic for that
>>283089094oh yeah I remember that bit in the Aeneid where they fulfill the "eating plates" prophecy
Complaining about historical accuracy and realism in fantasy worlds with magic is retarded and opinion invalidating.
>>283088154Another factor aside from copying existing tropes (which, let's face it, a lot of western writers also do), is the source of those tropes.Modern (post-Tolkien) western fantasy is inspired by mythology and earlier fantasy novels (mostly Tolkien). Even if modern writers are more likely to be inspired by fantasy RPGs they've played the tropes in those games are still from older literature and writers understand that gameplay-related mechanics like character classes and experience points are just abstractions for the sake of gameplay rather than something that actually exists in-universe.Most Japanese fantasy on the other hand is based on Dragon Quest. So for a lot of Japanese writers gameplay mechanics like classes and levels are core parts of how fantasy is supposed to work. So you get stories where class systems, levels, and other videogame mechanics like the representation of an in-game dungeon map in >>283087333 are actual things that exist in the setting and are acknowledged by the characters. That makes the whole thing feel "fake" to western fans, who generally assume that such things don't "really" exist in the story and are there just for a player's benefit and thus have no reason to appear in media other than games.
>>283090756Yup. Aeneas knows he's arrived in Italy when he and his troops are eating "pizza". Even the ancient Romans were doing Italian stereotypes.
>>283090756Yeah, Celaeno's prophecy's in Book 3Of course different kinds of bread were used in for different purposes, like today pizza dough is not used for hot dogsThe bread that they eat in their "dira fames" (terrible hunger) wasn't soft wheat bread, but dry farro unleavened bread-plates, similar to more modern hardtack, used during long sea voyages as plates that could become emergency food
>>283090827If you introduce concepts and objects in a story that make the reader question how the world is functioning on a fundamental basis you've failed in making a believable world
>>283090944That has nothing to do with historical accuracy or realism, that has more to do with the internal consistency and logic.
>>283090944I think you're starting to understand part of the problem. This anon>>283090827 is literally too stuipd to even start questioning the world. Retards like him assume we've had bread and meat for thousands of years, of course they are going to have a modern smashburger. Ground beef sounds the pretty similar to minced meat so that means they cook exactly the same. And he has no idea how nylon is made, he just knows we have been wearing leggings and clothes for forever so why wouldn't Frieran be wearing nylon leggings? It's more of a testament to the viewers stupidity than it is the writers.
>>283089035Oda and One Piece. Toriko, Togashi with HxH.
>>283091024I agree, problem is some things like technology have their own internal consistency and logic that are somewhat linked to advancement regarding society as a whole.Take >>283090685; if you put details that informs us readers about the presence of post-industrial revolution technology, and the entire setting is completely devoid of both the material reality and the societal consequences that they create, you've been interally inconsistent in you socio-technological worldbuild
>>283091024You're the one that brought up historical accuracy, the thread is about worldbuilding.
>>283091070Nothing in my post implies any of that you fucking schizo. What I'm saying is that none of that matters in fantasy world building as much as worthless autistics say it does.4chan posters once again prove to be the lowest life forms in existence.
>>283091162You're too stupid to realize how stupid you are lmao. You're welcome to fuck back of too reddit or whereever since you apparently hate everyone here.
>>283091162you could say its anti-world building since all it does is raise questions and those will never be answered since the answer is "oh how did this modern dish dcame to be in front of miss pig? I drew it"
>>283089117>>283089117>dune>asimovNot fantasy...
>>283091162its fine if you don't care, but it makes your story shallow junk food and people will treat it as such.
>>283087496YES
>>283091162>none of that matters in fantasy world building>things are shown that imply the existence of the industrial complex in various forms>the entire planet is still living in faux-medieval Europe for some reason>none of the technological advancements that are required as stepping stones before reaching that level of technology shown are ever acknowledged and their effects on very vital parts of daily life are non-existent>just ignore it bruhYou are literally picrel
>>283089973>jrpg partyok>in isekai worldit's not an isekai, but let's say it's a generic anime europeanesque fantasy world>soft magic systemnot really an isekai thing since a lot of them are pretty gamey and systematic>doing quests'go to a place, help people there' is a standard battle shounen formula>tournamentsas above but even more>experiencing modern jap luxuries without the production methods for said luxuries behing established in any wayit's just bad world building
>>283091271>it's not an isekai, we're talking about isekai tropes and what you describe is an isekai trope
>>283087380They are not from /a/. They are tourists from the worst section of 4chan, /tg/.
>>283091286>isekai tropeWhat's the difference between an isekai trope and a D&D trope?
>>283091286actually, it isn't. It's a trope that originated before isekai. hint: The genre starts with f.
>>283091320One is commonly found in isekai mediaI guess in this context frieren tries to capture the isekai audience instead of d&d audience
>>283091162>>283091262Explain this kino, worldbuild fuckers(sorry for the twitter link, it's the only video online of this scene)https://x.com/mazzysstars/status/1774408252312224000
>>283091199>>283091224>>283091240>>283091262Realismtards once again prove to be samefagging midwits. You can have "deep" worldbuilding with little connection to reality. Read more fantasy and stop shitting up threads with this nonsense.
>>283089973>jrpg party in isekai worldYou should really define what you mean by "isekai world" if you're just gonna apply it flatly.
>>283091421This thread is literally about it. You act as if this was a Frieran thread that was taken over or something. Not surprising, you're literally retarded and having a hissy fit and can't think straight.
>>283091421>You can have "deep" worldbuilding with little connection to realityYou are deranged>we have to walk 1000 miles to the Evil Duke's lair who's kidnapped my sister, let's go party!>an airplane and two helicopters fly above the MC's party, they walk beside an highway with cars, multiple trains on the horizons>this is never talked about>they reach the Evil Duke's lair too late and he's killed the MC's sister the day prior>they story wants us to think this is a tragedyRetard
>>283091451You're unable to actually read what's being implied and you say I'm being retarded. Ironic post.
>>283091496No you said stop shitting up threads, maybe you meant stop shitting up the board? Either way you're pretty angry and can't think right. Just take a break and come back in a hour you will feel better and see more clearly.
There is only one good fantasy world and it's the one that was sung into existence by the music of the Ainur who were created by Eru who is called Illuvatar by us.
>>283091162People here are trying to have genuine, good faith discourse over this topic to the point where I'm kind of impressed this is /a/ in 2025, and here the best thing you can do is fling shit and call names.
>>283091494You're the deranged one, making strawman arguments like this. This stupid example violates internal consistency, has nothing to do with adhering to real world ideas and physics.
>>283091524If your worldbuild doesn't even have twelve thousand years of language tree evolution divided in various families, dialects and slangs, is it even a world at all?Tolkiengang keeps winnin'
>>283091421Putting "deep" in quotes is proof enough that you don't have any regard for it at all so why bother defending it? Be honest and take pride in being so above it all that you're content your settings shallow and utilitarian. There's more than enough plebs out there like you who care even less than you, as long as they get to see anime girl be funny and cute and boys be cool and fight.
>>283091592I only wish he let the Valar get some comeuppance for being assholes to the elves.
>>283091571>This stupid example violates internal consistencyEvery single example where any kind of technological advance is shown without the necessary background that is needed for that specific technology to even exist and without the consequences that this specific technological tree's existence would bring to the world IS A VIOLATION OF INTERNAL CONSISTENCYThings don't exist in a vacuum you fuck
>>283091660When were the Valar assholes to the Elves?The only example I can find is the Doom of Mandos, and that's a big can of worms that was opened by the supreme autist Fëanor
>>283086845I like the unhinged worldbuilding in Frieren.>medieval fantasy world>burger joints everywhere
>>283091729The romans literally invented fast food
>>283090135And what´d be the problem with that pray tell? Dragon Quest is classic and based.
>>283091729If it were meat pies, it would historically accurate.
>>283090135Neither maou nor yuusha were genuine articles, both were simply fakes who made it far enough by effort alone.It is unclear if there is even a real hero destined for the legendary sword, but if there is, he hasn't shown his face.
>>283091729"fast food" joints, or the equivalent, have always been a thing, one way or the other, because the idea of "making money from hungry traveler" has been a thing since walls were inventedhttps://www.battlemerchant.com/en/blog/medieval-fast-food-an-insight-into-the-world-of-cookshopsSure, modern borgers with modern meat-grinding technology is not okay, but still, it's not very unhinged
>>283089035NARUTO
>>283091527There was nothing "good faith" about the thread to begin with, just another case of realismtards whining about Japanese fantasy not following medieval history or Tolkien.>>283091625I never implied anything you just said. I never said "deep" was bad. I never said I preferred shallow settings. This is is why this isn't a "good faith" discussion. What a delusion.>>283091671You literally put too much much value on real life historical technological advancement and are too close minded to ever consider other possibilities of advancement. Just because there is a mismatched technological level in a story doesn't mean it can't be explained outside of what happened in real life. And you don't need explain every little thing unless it is important to the story in some way. You're too far up your own ass.
>>283091856>I never implied anything you just said. I never said "deep" was bad. I never said I preferred shallow settings. This is is why this isn't a "good faith" discussion. What a delusion.So we aren't having a good faith discussion because you're disingenuous and want to shit up everything? Like why else would you put "deep" in quotes if not for mockery? Why are you defending Frieran so badly if you don't prefer shallow settings? Well everyone else is having a good faith disucssion, you're just throwing a fit.
>>283091856>Just because there is a mismatched technological level in a story doesn't mean it can't be explained outside of what happened in real lifeAgain, things don't happen in a vacuum. You seem to think that one can reach step 10 of technological progress without steps 1 to 9, or that step 10 doesn't have huge implications that the author was too stupid to understand because they wrote stuff just to look cool.Frieren has nylon leggings. This already is too retarded to accept beyond "don't think about it, analyze the story's themes and not the worldbuilding".And I agree, if one wants to analyze the story's themes, you can ignore worldbuilding entirely because the two things are unrelated.But this thread is not about that, is about worldbuilding, not themes, not plot, not writing, not charactersThe OP wrote>Why are modern Japanese fantasy authors so bad at worlbuilding?And we're talking about it, and making shit that makes internally sense is worldbuilding, not "you don't need explain every little thing unless it is important to the story in some way", that's the opposite of worldbuilding
Daily Reminder: Middle-Earth has potatoes and Uruk-hai go to restaurants
>>283091844>modern technology>modern foodhas my favorite fantasy about ninjas been a native isekai the entire time?
>>283091592Tolkien's worldbuilding really is the "if you want a Hobbit to bake a cake, you have to create the world for that first" kinda thing.If you want a story about a dark lord and a ring you need to have the backstory for that.
>>283092039>potatoesyes>restaurantsmovies only
>>283091737>>283091778>>283091794Y'all, it's a running gag. The writer doesn't care if it's historically accurate or not.
>>283092039No.The word "menu" means "meal plan" the uruks are fed according to a predetermined meal plan like lifestock.
>>283092107Yeah part of it is that the writer knows the audience is lowbrow and isn't going to care about this stuff. I mean Frieran is a manga and is meant to be cheap and easy to crank out. The mangaka isn't going to spend a decade just fleshing out the world like a real fantasy author, the mangaka needs to release the next chapter next month. I suppose you could argue that this thread is needless critical of shallow pulp, but you would have to admit that is what Frieran is.
>>283092112>The word "menu" means "meal plan"No, it means small>Menu etymology>from French menu (adj.) "small, detailed" (11c.), from Latin minutus "small," literally "made smaller," past participle of minuere "to diminish," from root of minus "to diminish" (from PIE root *mei- (2) "small").
>>283086845because alot of the time it isnt the focus
>>283092209That's the etymology, not the meaning. The two can be quite different.For example the Japanese word ジュース "juusu" means any beverage, like soda, it does not mean "juice" even though that is its etymology.Another example would be マンション "manshon" which does not mean mansion but apartment building.As you can see, meaning and etymology can be quite different.In English, a "menu" is a plan. Like a training menu prescribing you how to train, a food menu is prescribing you what you need to eat.
>>283092198Robert E. Howard stories are the pure definition of pulp and those have stellar worldbuilding (and appreciable prose, even), bacause Howard spent his life reading non-fiction books and most of Conan's world was based on scientific hypothesis of his time regarding prehistorical societies, language, racial evolution, geographical events etc.There are levels of competency in everything, even lowbrow literature.
>>283092276I know, it was a somewhat autistic and poorly delivered joke about Prescriptivism vs. Descriptivism Linguistic
>>283087202I miss that one
>>283092198No, I don't think Frieren is pulpy or badly written. Jokes can exist no matter the quality of the writing.
>>283091262This pic is kind of a false argument because the car is obviously a stand-in for non-whites, rather than actual technology.
>>283092379So the worldbuilding is a joke? I suppose that's an easy way to digest it.
>>283092379>I don't think Frieren is pulpy or badly written
>>283092381What the fuck are you talking about, you culture war race obsessed moron
>>283091950You're having a meltdown because I put quotes around deep.>>283091976If magic exists, you can skip all kinds of technological steps. Whether or not they explain everything is a different issue but the groundwork is already there. This is fantasy we're talking about, not historical fiction.Caring about the Nylon leggings is the most autistic shit ever and no one discussing in "good faith" would bring up something like this. They could easily say it is magic material. This is like literally the bottom level what would ever matter in worldbuilding in fantasy.The reason many modern Japanese fantasy authors aren't good at worldbuilding is because they're doing minimum effort copies of video games they played. Not because of realism or even internal consistency.
>>283092519>magic exists, you don't have to explain shit!Very enlightened post.
>>283092381It just as well applies to, say, those combat wheelchairs they were pushing in DnD a couple years back.
Dragon Quest is responsible for all this mess. Thing is, it was conceived as a really goofy take on western fantasy with casinos, bunny girls and all kind of anachronistic nonsense, not as something that should serve as the blueprint for all japanese fantasy going forward. So you should really blame all the "artists" with no knowledge of the genre whatsoever other a parodic JRPG series.
>>283091856>There was nothing "good faith" about the thread to begin withOP may have started with bait the what is being discussed itt is beyond OP's intentions
>>283092555You only explain how magic works if the story hinges on it being explained. Random background details can be literally be handwaved away with magic and it will be believable to most people who aren't autistic midwits and it won't be "shallow" for doing so.You're not as smart as you think you are.
>>283087661For thousands of years humans were solely hunter gathers, but in last 300 we went from muskets to fucking nukes. Progress is never linear with humans
>>283092643They literally would die without food, so by your logic they should explain why they have burgers and parfaits. Yet it is handwaved, so also according to your logic this is not good. Glad you agree even if you're a bit tsundere and heated about the whole thing for some reason.
>>283092519>If magic exists, you can skip all kinds of technological stepsThis is a level of retardation on par with "why don't they fly the Eagles to Mordor?"
>>283092396I guess you can think of it that way. Worldbuilding doesn't have to be dead serious all the time. Sometimes it can even be a "mistake" like potatoes in Middle-Earth or Starbucks in Westeros.
why would you want this completely messed up fantasy world to follow our world's progression? they literally have a whole section dedicated to how humans develop at an exponential pace due to their short lifespans.
>>283092765If you don't want it to follow our world's progression then have a fantasy food instead of our world' modern food.
>>283092814I really don't see the issue with foods not following conventional progress. Also, most of us have the wrong idea about what foods were available to who at what point in human history in our world anyway.I have a much bigger issue with the digital maps they pull out in the dungeon.
>>283092459That is the literal origin of the post. Even if it wasn't, the "why are you so bigoted" line should make the poster's intent clear.
>>283092842You just said fantasy world shouldn't follow our world, so yeah I agree and having our world's food is a good start to not follow our world.
>>283092842>most of us have the wrong idea about what foods were available to who at what point in human history in our world anyway.>I have a much bigger issue with the digital maps they pull out in the dungeon.You see, you are a retard, so of course you have problems with things that create zero problems with the worldbuilding at large while projecting your ignorance on "most of us" about things that have huge consequences, like the availability of food and the technologies around food itself.
>>283092877I never said they shouldn't. I said why would you want a 1:1 progression between them, and that I don't see the issue with it not following conventional progress. Food is an easy one to not break immersion with and be used as gags.
>>283089035Arcanum
>>283091527>good faith
>>283089307Is DM actually good or is it just a meme? I got filtered by the tumblr-esque art style
>>283092842>I really don't see the issue with foods not following conventional progressCivilization and human history in general is literally only the progression of our relationship with food and the technology that existed around food.The way food and related matters are written is arguably the most vital part of worldbuilding, for the simple reason that 99% of all human activity since the dawn of humankind was "Food? Get food? Make food? Cook food?" and basically nothing regarding food isn't hugely influential in every aspect of human life.
>>283092981Literally what is "tumblr" about it? Girls having noses?
>>283089035Houseki no Kuni
>>283086845To the question of parfaits at a restaurant, consider:a restaurant implies ownership. Therefore, a system of landed people and standardized currency is impliedhowever, we know in frieren that many places have a Lord or some kind of centralized control that is implied to be landed nobility contrary to popular belief, noblemen does not equal fuedalism, so we are left with a cohabitation system. Nobles are essentially self contained corporations with the noble dynasty at the head and there are independent skilled workers -this implies a lack of strict nationalism - therefore, Frieren operates in a political landscape akin to the Greek City-States period (or any antiquity city-state period). People are united by affiliation and do not anticipate the "other." They readily share ideas but remain competitive with one another until the unmistakable "other" arrives which forces them to unitebasic mercantilism is present, but scarcity isn't a problem because nature will claim far more than society every will and society is actually primarily viewed as a bulwark against nature
>>283092681How does that even follow from my logic? The specific foods they eat have little effect on the story outside of flavor. You don't need to infodump about how burgers and parfaits exist just because one appeared on screen.You're just obsessed with hating these concepts you keep bringing up that are of bottom tier importance to the worldbuilding at best. You are literally autistic.>>283092739Explain why fantasy magic couldn't possibly affect technological development. The fact you think that was a witty comeback only further proves your retardation.
>>283086845In short: genre constraints. Good and bad authors have to fulfill certain expectations when it comes to the "cute girls in fantasy worlds" genre. Cute girls eat cake so there must be cake in your fantasy world. Cute girls go to the beach and wear bikinis so you have to that fit that too.Also Japanese people are not very worldly and their culture is far more ritualistic and ingrained than western culture. Which is why you get medieval settings celebrating matsuris or elf languages with honorifics.
>demon lord>hero>parties>adventurer's guild>quests>character classes>levels>stats>skills>magic system with discrete "spells">dungeons>chests with loot>mimics
>>283093116>Japanese people are not very worldlyThey're participating in the practice of entertaining themselves to death along with most industrialized societies atm
>>283093113>Explain why fantasy magic couldn't possibly affect technological developmentIt can, and you keep evading the question>why the consequences of those huge implied magical/technological advancement are never shown beyond random shit?Frieren has nylon leggings. They're not nylon, they're a magical material that is functionally nylon.Nigga, do you understand how fucking huge the presence of magical!nylon is? And yet after decades and centuries of this magical nylon existing the world never uses it for anything that would revolutionize very important and vital things, like protective clothing, tools, food conservation, weapon making, heat protection and dispersion, disinfective fabric and a fuckton of other things.This implies that the entire planet's population is completely retarded and has never thought of a single use for a miracle texture for things that they need in order to survive and instead keep themeselves in a perpetual state of technological stagnation
>>283092842>I have a much bigger issue with the digital maps they pull out in the dungeon.It's just a magic work around to pulling out a parchment and charcoal and doing it by hand, as any DnD player has done with pencil and graph paper. Though I suppose I would prefer if it had that aesthetic, a conjured paper map with pencil lines magically appearing, instead of the ethereal magic image.
>>283093116>Japanese people are not very worldlyOh my fucking shit shut up you retard, Japanese people are homo sapiens like every fucking mortal human that has ever existed, they shit, eat, fuck and jerk since the dawn of time like every culture ever, you fucking terminally online moron who has only interacted with the world thru a screen
>>283092985This. Geography -> flora/fauna -> food + culture(if we include things like: fabrics, furs, dyes, etc.). Having all the fruit in the OP in one place implies so much about the world. That is, if you actually consider it and don't treat it as just another "cute" moment.
>>283093116>elf languages with honorificsNo, they have honorifics in the version you're reading because it's written in Japanese, it's impossible to write Japanese dialogues without those
>>283093394>Having all the fruit in the OP in one place implies so much about the worldThe fact that this random tavern uses plates, chalices and utensils made of STEEL is even more egregious. (I really hope it's not silver).
>>283093394>>283093474Also, this random tavern has clear glass windows.Kek
>>283091844It was until they decided to introduce aliens.
>>283086845Because they only know other anime and manga and lack real life experience to base their fantasy stories on.
>>283093320I didn't evade jack shit. What makes you think that magic nylon existing would mean it would be somehow be important in a magic fantasy setting? Magic could literally make it redundant in other ways. Just because it would be important in real life is not a real argument.The real reason for this autistic nonsense is simply because you don't like this character design aspect and disingenuously inventing reasons why it is "retarded" based on realism arguments.
>>283092981You know something is bad when the only thing it's praised for is its worldbuilding, and when you ask what is good about DM 99% of the answers are "muh worldbuilding".
>>283093670>What makes you think that magic nylon existing would mean it would be somehow be important in a magic fantasy setting?You are simply too retarded to have a discussion with>you don't like this character design aspectI masturbated a fuckton about Frieren and her nylon leggings specifically, so take it back
>>2830933281/4 of a panel in the manga.
>>283089313>>283087151a fateful encounter anons
>>283093670Magic could do literally anything, but what is it actually doing here? How many people even use magic to begin with? Saying magic can explain things yet never actually showing it just proves it's not even a consideration in the first place, just is a hollow world by a lazy author for a dumb audience that won't notice.
>>283086894And so is Fate/Stay Night
>>283093173>>magic system with discrete "spells"I don't see anything wrong with this one - if you want rain you do a rain dance
>>283092981Unironically the best fantasy manga in a long time.
>>283093912I think he means in a RPG tiered system, where you have Fire1, Fire2, Fire3 etc as different spells instead of the general idea of fire elemental manipulation
>>283093764You don't have any real arguments. You might have had an argument if the goal of Frieren was to be as realistic and grounded as possible, then nylon would be a valid complaint if it doesn't fit the setting. But we're talking about a magic fantasy setting, where magic is everywhere and there are tons of 'anachromisms' everywhere already. When magic is involved, whatever rules the author establishes explains things, and you either suspend disbelief or you don't.>>283093873Just because people don't give a shit about 'unrealisms' in fantasy doesn't mean they don't notice. They just have better imaginations than you. Not explaining every detail does not mean the world is hollow or the author is lazy, it just means they prioritize what's actually important to them. It's only hollow and lazy when they're only putting in minimum effort into the story overall to begin with.
>>283094057It quite literally does mean that, hence you using your superior imagination folded 1000 times to fill in the hollow space, because they don't care about the details and only put in the minimum effort into the story to keep it going.
>>283094057>It's only hollow and lazy when they're only putting in minimum effort into the story overall to begin with.Like Frieren?
>>283094156Whatever. I'd hate to read a story that constantly fills in every single blank and leaves nothing up to interpretation, sounds boring as fuck.
>>283094300You could have did all of us a favor and finished with "whatever" an hour ago. The conclusion was already apparent when your defense to the charge of not caring was that it didn't matter.Not every story needs to be taken seriously, and Frieren is just another one of them.
>>283093020It’s like porn, you know if when you see it
>>283093849So it's something the anime punched up
>>283093974>unironically
>>283094377You can take Frieren seriously just fine, even if it isn't perfect. Not taking it seriously is a (You) problem.
>>283089035MIA obviously
>>283093719What? People always praise the characters
By the way, you can care about details all day and still end up glossing over things that autistics will have a shit fit over. At the end of the day, these stories are written for normal people with functional brains capable of suspending disbelief, not the autistics who have a meltdown the instant they see anything they think is out of place or unrealistic.
>>283094395More like the modern view of porn, where you see it wherever you want to see it. Do you have a real answer or are you just shitposting?
Praising anime or manga for its worldbuilding is like praising porn for its story or horror movies for its social commentary.
>>283094626Weird comeback.It looks what it looks like, no need to get offended over it.
>>283094669>Dismissive retard tries to dismiss only to make it look like he doesn't know how thinking works
>>283094732Yeah that's what I figured, keep at it I guess.
>>283094820You asked and got an answer, there's nothing else to add.
>>283089094Modern sandwiches date back to some earl who wanted to eat while playing cards. IIRC cucumber sandwiches on explicitly white bread were a thing back in 1800.
>>283093020>Girls having noses?Mm. Tumblr artists get defensive over this and say this, that must be some legit tumblr manga right there.
>>283087904>>283087904>>283087904>>283087904
>>283091740even Dragon Quest gets tired of that shit, they subverted it almost from the beginning. DQ2 has the descendant of the big bad maou from the first game being a chill guy who wants nothing to do with evil nonsense. DQ4 made a dindu nuffin maou because playing it straight was already dull by then etc.
>>283086845Modern? It's been like that forever, with only a handful of exceptions. JRPGs and MMOs in particular have raped Japan's perception of what good world building is, given that it's always completely random and relies on ridiculous tropes, stereotypes and random modern bullshit.It's like they mentally never matured beyond teenagers, and only make entertainment for people younger than 15, despite having a sizable adult audience.
>>283094669you say this but i am super into porn with plot nowadaysnot like "i fucked my step-mom #13" compilation title but an actual full length film with scenes all connected to one another
>>283095577>It's like they mentally never matured beyond teenagers, and only make entertainment for people younger than 15, despite having a sizable adult audience.You only read shit for teenager and wonder why it reads like YA fiction?
>>283096065Sure you can enjoy that aspect, but you gotta accept most people don't care about it and that they will raise an eyebrow at the statement.
>>283089503Other way around, ASOIAF has a great story but mediocre worldbuilding
>WAAAAAAH Japan has shitty worldbuilding why is McDonalds in my fantasyMeanwhile western fantasy
>>283089223kys contrarian mongrel>>283089035The Wheel of Time has a fantastic worldbuilding.The Dragonlance world building is pretty solid if unoriginalRaymond E Feists Magician world is quite well developedAnd until the last ~4 years or so, Warhammer 40k was unbeatable in its galaxy-building, Warhammer fantasies lore is mostly shit and deriative, based off of DnD, but a good setting for fun stories at least.
>>283086845
>>283096655Fucking peak.
>>283086845Only fantasy anime I really like is The Slayers.
>>283086845Dungeon Meshi's author is top tier. Worldwide even.
>>283096655fantastic. in fact, the first time we're introduced to the gingerbread man:>we find out that farquad has a sex dungeon>the existence of the muffin man is established>he and his wife live on drury lane>and they're harboring all the other fairytale characters
>>283096655Anything show don't tell is good worldbuiling, anything with a retard talking about the world is garbage worldbuilding, simple as.
>>283089035Of the 'high fantasy' series I've read, the two that stick out the most to me are Wheel of Time and the Malazan books.
>>283086845Dungeon Meshi's world building is some of the best while also having a great story. Most writers are just lazy or stupid, not exclusive to Japan.
>>283095046>DM is tumblr!>If you disagree with me then you're tumblr!Cicero would stand in awe before your rhetorical prowess
>he's hereJust ignore.
>>283089035Discworld
>>283093891F/SN is modern fantasy
>>283087710ground beef is an incredibly modern development
>>283096669>40kbut how inconsistent between authors. a space marine scales logarighmically base on if he's named, wears a helmet, is a girlyman ultramarine...and every faction has the bestest strongest arcane weapons in the fluff.
>>283086912Shinto Mythology is hardly identifiable as fantasy to most Westerners. They just see various yokai as generic monsters or ghosts.Lots of fantasy anime are very Shintoist.>>283086912>>283087182It is also true that until the 1960s, American fantasy was basically totally cut off from European fantasy, and rarely actually made great references to mythology. You don't see much of that at all in Howard, Vance, or Lieber. Tolkien's obsession with Germanic mythology and CS Lewis's Christian influence, was pretty distant from their work. The idea that good fantasy means slamming your work full of references to the Poetic Edda or something, is idiotic and very ignorant of the history of fantasy in general.
>>283087126It is mostly derived from the Ultima series. The 'Avatar' in that game was a character that stood above all others and could use the skills of other classes, and beyond that held a role as a cosmological moral paragon. The Hero is an adaptation of the concept that takes away a lot of Ultima's explicit religious overtones. But maintains the mixture of class abilities and the paragon nature.
>>283090135Himmel explicitly wasn't the Hero, he failed the test.
>>283097557Ground through a meat grinder, recent. But historically it was made all the time, but by using cleavers instead. The Chinese in particular still retain that, and its common to see old grannies take a pair of cleavers to a pile of tough meat and mince it all the way up. Restaurants also do it. Where do you think the name, "minced meat", came from?
>>283097341discworld always seemed like such upper-crust waspy cringe for middle class women.>>283097777agreed, and it hasn't gotten better over the years, but the best stories around can be found in 40k. Sabbat Worlds was a great short story anthology, and they were written by random, mostly no-name authors, inside a mini-universe in 40k written by another author, Dan Abnett. Indomitable Spirit in that book is the best short story in all of 40k imo.But the Fabius Bile series, the first 3x trilogies of the Gaunts Ghost series, Emperor's Mercy, Talon of Horus and Black Legion, many arcs of the HH series (until the last few books where it disappointed and went woke, leaving a pile of plot threads unaddressed) etc. All of it are the best Sci-fi fantasy ever written.
>>283087496yes
>>283089590Americans don't read comic books because American comic book companies were run by retards and destroyed their own market. Like every loser English teacher that heads to Japan to try and get pussy, this guy sees that no one respects him or takes him seriously, and then thinks that reflects on everyone else rather than himself. Sounds like he worked at some equivalent to a community college in Japan or adult educational center, where the average attendee was probably trying to avoid violating their probation more than do any work.
>>283097206NTA but that fact you got defensive over noses is a really tumblr thing to say. Like if you look at kabru’s design and don’t see how tumblr it is, you might be blind
>>283098432What an unbelievable nonargument.
>>283086845I've talked about this many times. It's because of the Meiji restoration. Japan didn't develop socially and technologically naturally like Europe did. They went from a mediaeval feudal society to an industrial society in a matter of decades. This is why their world building is so jaring and you find many items and technologies completely out of place. They have no sense on how a society is supposed to develop.
>>283098602I ignored him for a reason you know. You should learn not to jump at obvious bait on other people's behalf, or just not jump at bait in general.
>>283090685>>283091100People have been cooking and stacking wafer cookies since the medieval period.
>>283092290Howard's stuff was some understanding of late 1800s Aryan theory with some knowledge of late 1800s Ice Age theory. Not bad.
>>283086845frieren isn't about building a meticulous new world, it's just a backdrop for the events.Some fantasy is like this, while some care about being exotic with everything.
>>283092981Its shit. The author created an entire ecological theme that she couldn't merge with her 'fight the demon' storyline and then gave up on it all.
>>283098327>Americans don't read comic books because American comic book companies were run by retards and destroyed their own market. CCA did more damage to it than any exec did. What used to be a fairly diverse set of genres from Horror, War, Sci-Fi, Romance, and so on ended up being relegated only to capeshit for 2 decades by which point the damage was done. After the Bronze Age it only got worse as gimmicks and retardation by people like Rob Liefeld crashed what little companies were still there to the slow death we have now of just DC, Marvel.Now the only comics that actually sell a lot are things that are part of Scholastic Fairs like Babysitters Club or Dogman.
>>283087461You do realize that hamburgers are a German invention, right? Their name is derived from the city of Hamburg, Germany's second-largest city, and is based on a traditional German dish called "Rundstück warm". It's why during World War I, they temporarily stopped calling them hamburgers in the US and started calling them "salisbury steaks" instead as a display of anti-German sentiment.
>>283098602>show image of a turd>this looks like a turd>no that's not an argumentWell ok.
>>283086845Maybe you should read something that puts at least a modicum of effort into it.
>>283099338>DEIakutaNips don't care about this garbage so why should I?
>>283086845It has big hamburg steak and cute elf girl, what more do you want?
>>283096998wrong
>>283087126The standard dragon quest hero class is a magic swordman with good firepower, extreme versatility and utility, strong defense and no major weaknesses. Their ancestors tend to be legendary individuals, and their bloodline sometimes gives them cheat skills like innate curse immunity.
>>283099494Postmodernist garbage that is the antithesis of good worlbuilding.
>>283099419OC races and OC food they can make another thread to bitch about for "trying too hard"
>>283086845that Miyazaki stuff about otaku wasn't 100% wrong
>>283099494Were they talking about the world? I thought it was just flirting.
>>283099416Because it's good, despite the nigger characters.
>>283099338all style no substance
>>283099676it's about the tell don't show approach.>>283099657get the stick out of your anus. in entertainment, fun is the main metric.
>>283099714Both style and substance. It's 100 times better than most of the mindless isekaislop you see posted every day on this board.
>>283092975/thread should had ended here
>>283099769I'm not retarded enough to have fun with slop that can't for even one second refrain from being self aware and has to constantly remind the viewer that he's indeed watching fiction so terrified of being honest and stand on its own legs that's just devolved into a collection of fourth wall breaks, exposition of tropes and meta "humor".
>>283099231This is a giant kneecap to the storytelling potential, but people would still be able to write basic entertaining action series like Dragon Ball, popular rom-coms like Yugami-kun, or comedy series like Nichijou. Americans wouldn't be able to publish Berserk under this rule-set, but One Piece absolutely could have existed under it. You wouldn't be able to publish josei smut, but basic shonen and shojo romances would have been fine.
>>283086845What's even good world building? Is it just lore dumping whenever the characters get to a different location? Is it about making the world actually feel alive and not just videogame-like stages where you just move on to a new location once you beat the arc's "big bad"?
>>283100017i get frustrated with lots of those fast fiction WN worlds as i read them, but that's just par for course in the genre. not every world will have intelligent leaders with deep, sound motives and quick wit.
>>283086845Because the audience doesn't care about worldbuilding
When someone says "worldbuilding" I just roll my eyes and stop listening.
name a single good female writer. ive never heard of one.
>>283093891FSN is reverse isekai
>300+ posts ninbros...
>>283100822https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuki_Urushibara
>>283100822Joni Mitchell, Chica Umino and the Mushishi writer
>>283100724>>283100894americans woke up
>>283087276>>283099651A Paladin but with a Sorcerer's spell list and spell slot progression. Throw in some Ranger spells too.
>>283100988Another seething europoor/thirdie... what am I saying it's the same thing lol
>>283086845I want to slam that pig
>>283102117stark nooo, if she hears you she'll pout again!
>>283091262Hey! this car stole my bike!
>>283086845Best fantasy series coming out right now and one of my favorite manga ever.
>>283087202Based manga as well.
>>283102506
>>283102596i already know of the sexy horned girl but>piked gambeson
>>283100063I think the main reason Anons complain about worldbuilding is that the fantasy worlds with videogame elements feel extremely fake. I actually had this problem with Frieren. It's not as overt as others, so it really surprised me in a bad way when they started dropping stuff like the dungeon minimap (among stuff unrelated to this discussion like mana powerlevels). It feels like they appeal to the viewer to generate familiarity instead of immersing you in their setting. The setting doesn't even need a lot of focus to be strong. I think a good example of a manga with a strong setting with focus is Made in Abyss.
>>283100822Houseki no Kuni's writer.
>>283102650> I think a good example of a manga with a strong setting with focus is Made in Abyss.I honestly think MIA has one of the best settings I’ve seen in a manga, the way all the different levels of the abyss are explained and the types of creatures that live there made it really feel like an actual fantasy story and not some mesh of rpg shit. Sex with Prushka
>>283100822FMA’s author
>>283086894ThisNative Isekai dont need complete realism unlike tranditional fantasy anime which benefit from it.
>>283102713Its setting really touches on that feeling of danger and adventure, makes me feel like reading Jules Verne books as a child. It's also really creative.
>>283102777It's absurd to have videogame elements on anime when videogames developed those elements in order to represent things from narrative mediums and adapt them to the shortcomings of their own medium. You don't have the power of handing over storytelling to the player so you can't just narrate what your character's strengths and weaknesses are, but that suddenly is possible if you create a stat system and say he has high int and low stamina and so on. That's the entire point of that. I have no idea how they made the jump back into narrative mediums.
Midshoku Tenyearolds lost. Frieten the Slay Queen won.
>>283089035Howard's Hyborian Age
I don't want to reply to the bait but Frieren was really surprising to me. It's such a weird mix of fantasy styles. It wears the skin of some sort of ishakishei emotionally complex story with melancholic themes yet they often become superficial and they're mixed with videogame elements that feel really forced in yet aren't as prominent as other such stories, and sometimes it goes full battle shonen complete with mana powerlevels. The entire thing feels really odd to me.
>>283089223Trying too hard to be insufferable hipster, little zoomie
>>283089083Amazing pick, this is one of my top 3 favorite anime. It has such strong writing. You have good taste.
>>283102931>mediumslanguagelet>but that suddenly is possible if you create a stat systemwouldn't the first quantized points of comparison like that have been military technology? cannon bore, ship tonnage, days of food you have on the campaign.and economics/logistics in general.and religious metaphysics/mythology. >beyond the 7 rivers, 7 hills>this many angels>untold eons of samsara, and of buddhas before and after gautamaso the numerology we got used to with religion got spiced up by military otaku, and the need to quantize things for war games/computing.it cross bred and went back into storytelling.
>>283102650Based and true
As always, these threads are about shitting on Japan and not the supposed topic. This is because the OP and his cohort are largely>some manner of seether mad about WW2, like a chink, gook, SEAmonkey, etc. >some manner of American racist, either left-wing or right-wingOr some manner of child, brown or otherwise, posting on their phone and who has limited exposure to everything and so can't discuss anything at all in a serious way.The utter state of /a/.
>>283102650What's so strange about Frieren is that usually I feel revulsion when status screens and minimaps and the like are dropped into the story, but in Frieren's case I didn't mind at all.Perhaps it really is about execution.
>>283089307Dungeon Meshi is heavily influenced by Wizardry. The author is open about it.>>283086845A ton of work was actually put into the world building for that series and Seiko Yoshioka took it even further for the anime. There are few series worldwide that hold a candle to Frieren's autism.source for pic: https://www.mdn.co.jp/design/features/7151?_x_tr_hist=true
>>283105214Dungeon Meshi is literally the author copypasting shit from google, and this is not even a hot take, you can go find interviews and other shit about it where she openly admit to just get into those things to steal ideas, there's even a glorious thread with everyone coping about it.
>>283098009>Shinto Mythology is hardly identifiable as fantasy to most Westerners.This. There's a ton of overt Shinto and Buddhist themes and references in Japanese media. It's practically a trope that whenever a series plays on Buddhist themes, the westoid analysis will always misidentify it as nihilism, just look at the entire NieR discourse in the West (despite Yoko Taro being absurdly in your face and obvious about it even using Buddhist and Shinto technical terms within games, novelizations, interviews, etc..).There's also a ton of cultural Japanese shit that comes up a lot in Japanese media that westoids completely miss. Like the use of hanakotoba (the language of flowers) where different flowers have different meanings and they'll often be thrown into scenes or associated to characters to help convey what the character is feeling or to clarify their personality traits.
>>283086845nothing wrong with a country developing a parfait, pancakes, and cake
figures that the most interesting fictional worlds always come from people who are a little bit off
>>283103572 >>283103613It really comes down to execution because when it comes down to it, the scenes last to 3 or 0.5 seconds and they're hated because there was an intense hatewatcher around waiting through the entire screentime for something to latch on to justify their hatred of anime who then creamed themselves and it's very obvious.For example, there's no "int stats" as >>283102931 made up on the spot. There isn't even a stats screen at all, they're mapping a place. But more to the point, it really only shows up 0.5 a second anime in the anime. It's easy enough for most people to dismiss it or suspend disbelief because it's a 0.5/3-second in the runtime of a 23:45 episode of a show with 30x that got amplified by a hatewatcher selectively handpicking what will cause the most vitriol who's hard to believe has no sort of agenda.
>>283089035>steals all his ideas from everyone else and claim theyre his >goodNot a single thing he did was orginal or good
>>283089590>western authors>good literaturelol, lmao evenLiterally who cares about English in Japan. It's a meme language there that's only useful for pandering to tourists who are disrespectful as shit and everyone hates anyways.
>>283096669>racists in space >world building What? Star trek has better lore in lower decks alone
>>283105408YWNBJ
>>283105412There are no CFs or aura moments in Boomer Trek tho
>>283086912Midwit answer. The directors that proliferated fantasy in anime and manga grew up playing the early Japanese bootlegs of tabletop fantasy games and the generation after them either continued playing those games and/or played the early net games based off of them. Which is why you would get lackluster isekai based off of MMO nowadays because the newer ones only know the basics of it from casually playing the newer games instead of the actual source material. You can even see it by the boring and mundane choice of monsters they usually introduce into their works alongside the usually generic plotlines or alterations of it.
>>283087202This actually looks good, which means it's probably unpopular, undiscussed, untranslated, etc.
>>283105453>Which is why you would get lackluster isekai based off of MMO nowadays because the newer ones only know the basics of it from casually playing the newer games instead of the actual source material. You can even see it by the boring and mundane choice of monsters they usually introduce into their works alongside the usually generic plotlines or alterations of it.The question is, why don't writers or readers get bored of this? And why does a forum which used to ban Naruto on sight for being casual garbage have a never-ending general dedicated to isekai?
>>283105488If you can't see the clear demographic difference between fucking Naruto and isekai then you're probably a normalfag tourist yourself.
>>283105379>It really comes down to execution>5 minutes later>ISEKAI IS BAD ISEKAI IS BAD ISEKAI IS BADYeah ok.
>>283105520criticizing naroushit does not a tourist make, my friendit simply means I don't like slop
>narouYou are never going to be popular man, give up.
>>283105598Huh?
>>283105453>Which is why you would get lackluster isekai based off of MMO nowadays because the newer ones only know the basics of it from casually playing the newer games instead of the actual source material.This is also a midwit answer. The Japanese Tabletop RPGs like Swordworld RPG, Forcelia, as well as games like Wizardry and stuff were influential but they're largely disconnected from the modern trend we see in anime.The modern trend largely comes from the Naroukei authors which started off as a group of amateur authors who wrote fanfic based off of Familiar of Zero. These fanfics were originally stuff like "what if <insert character from video game/manga/some other IP/author's OC> got summoned into the world instead", and then once fanfics got banned on Narou this group of authors started writing works that were just original enough to ban evade and this eventually led to all of those modern slop series.For some cursed reason, those web novels started getting adapted into light novels, then manga, and finally anime, and now we're here. The reason we have these absurdly campy wish fulfillment stories is because these works were all purposely written as campy self-referential shitposts that remixed and jokes about each other's stuff and about shit the authors are fans of.This is also why all those anime protags start off shit like "oh, is this like one of those isekai things??" even though those lines were written in the original web novels over a decade before the isekai anime trend kicked off -- it was meant to be read by author shitposters in that community of amateur authors.
>>283105378I wish I could watch MIA for the first time again
>>283105636>This is a [repeats what I said]Sure showed me.
>>283086845Surprisingly Ishuzoku Reviewers had the best world building in a long time, that I can remember
Lore is overrated. Next question. The answer is no. It’s not your fault.
>>283105308Real Buddhism, and not the hippie shit that you see in strip malls in the US, is a really difficult religion for a lot of people to appreciate. Houseki no Kuni is the best example of this in the anime world, I'd say. Its literally a Buddhist sermon, but people still use the 'nihilism' buzzword.
>>283102506Its a good Elden Ring spin off.
>>283105856"nihilism""life-denying"Any other words westoids use when they get mindbroken and skullfucked by Buddhist themes?
>>283086894Frieren does not reincarnate. Therefore, it is not isekai.
>>283105520>>283105548Triggered
>>283086845>bad at worldbuilding>FrierenKEKW
>It's poorly written because I don't like it.>I've seen it before so it's bad.
>>283105636>who wrote fanfic based off of Familiar of Zerolol, lmao.
>>283105548Isekai is bad because it exists solely to destroy any potential well-executed worldbuilding, character development or relationships.The entire reason isekai is so prolific is because it's a non-stop infodump with characters observing, obsessing over, or having their lives revolve around the main character. You don't have to write anything if the world is just>It's game world. Stats. Level up.and the MC just intuits knowledge based on being a loser, or failing that, has the entire world infodumped onto him by his new best friend and/or love interest.
>>283086845Pic unrelated?
>>283105957Not an argument
>>283105973No need to agree man, but thanks.
>>283106005ok now gibb source
>>283086845If (You) had been watching anime for some years, you must had noticed how some series have REALLY shitty stories. I think thats in part because so meany shit is being produced that they are running out of source material to adapt into anime, so they had started scrapping the barrel's deep end, and thats how, material with minimal / inferior quality is being chosen to adaptations. I would gladly have 5 / 6 studios doing high quality stuff thatn the plethora of shitty studios adapting shitty stories, just to survive.
>>283105476>This actually looks goodUnderstatement. >unpopularYes. >undiscussedYes. >untranslatedIt was until the translator died sometime this year.
>>283106118>so meany shit is being produced that they are running out of source material to adapt into anime, so they had started scrapping the barrel's deep endYou're dead wrong, there's plenty of good shit just waiting to be adapted and they never get picked up.
>>283105432No boomer moments? Ohhh nooooo
>>283105913>ReincarnationThat's tensei not isekai retard.
>>283105907All true btw.Buddhism is a joke of a religion. It's Western individual's first Oriental exotic religion which is why they are eager to latch to it. Imagine having a nonsensical dogma like "There's no self" or "war is peace" and you have to say "woah, deep!" because it's what the religion says. It's just gross. In fact, virtually no mangaka even wants to be associated with it which is no manga ever is about that except for two including Houseki. They merely pretend to be respectful on public. >b-but Dragon Ball hah gotcha!ki is Taoism. What that means is the entirety of DB is Taoism. It would be different if Goku met Buddha and yet this never happens. As it stands, there are way more influences from the Tao. As usual, Buddhistfags are eager to latch onto first Oriental exotic language and yet don't know a second Oriental religion even exists. The Western individual thus calls every oriental mysticism "Buddhism" and buddhistwashes the others.>b-but what about [some random yokai or whatever]That's Shintoism, the actual, proper native religion of Japan. Japanese people were nice to let a few buddhistfags have lodging hence the confusion. The Western individual is this desperate to validate their First Oriental Religion that they see a demon or youkai and assume "this is buddhism, right? right?" sm.h. It is simply unbecoming. Even mangaka don't want to dirty their work with such terrible philosophy.
The japanese call everything isekaiThe japanese = word of god
>>283106195>good shitSuch as? Is not that I dont believe you, just that it doesnt contradict the point that a bunch of bottom of the barrel with QUALITY animation is being released left and right.
>>283087311shut the fuck up faggot this thread is to shit on frieren
>>283106380bait used to be believable
>>283099231>CCA did more damage to it than any exec did.The CCA was implemented by industry execs.
>>283086845Oda is apparently the only mangaka with the brain cells to research inspirations for his worldbuilding and create a definitive ending for his series before a beginning.
>>283106538read more manNo, nevermind. Stay like that
>>283100056So why did Japan move forward with those series while America didn't? I understand this is probably a broader question about culture and the structure of their respective entertainment industries, but what the hell.
>>283091729>Spy X Family>set in pseudo-Germany>some characters eat japanese food (omurice), use japanese tools (shinto priest’s purification wand/gohei), or fight with japanese weapons (kusarigama, katana)even worse, it sometimes forgets its set in the 50’s, so we get plastic bottles and items typical to modern japanese amenities instead of what europeans would use half a century ago.
>>283106547name one mangaka who put as much thought into his worldbuilding as Oda hasif you say Togashi, I’m kicking your teeth in.
>>283106664Joe Mama
>>283089083>>283093053>>283094519Objectively correct opinions
>>283086845fat ass
>>283106538Baits used to be believable.
I don't get the whole complaint about how the not-well-thought-out setting/world building of Frieren (and it kind of is just whatever is convenient to the plot/author regardless of how much sense it makes) makes the series necessarily bad. No one was watching it for it in the first place; what the show is about is done very well I'd say and that is the reason it's so popular. I noticed the nylon leggings, the retarded modern food choices, how there were clock towers in random towns, but the world otherwise relying so much more on magic for tech or just being pre-industrial otherwise, how so many are able to read and write despite that making no sense at all, etc. None of this has really taken away from the point of the show as literally no one watches it for its world building, magic system or even the fights. All of those things exist to serve the point of the show and while I'd obviously prefer if the author had put a bit more thought into everything I'm genuinely confused by autists ITT thinking those are the things deciding whether it's trash or not.
>>283106578America had a huge religious revival after WW2 where a bunch of traumatized combat vets and their beaten wives found God to cope with life. This meant that everything had to be extremely morally policed. In Japan this didn't happen. The post-war period mostly found dudes taking meth to work 80 hour weeks and spending all their money cheating on their wives with hookers. By the 60s it became trendy to push the envelope on what was allowable in comics, and by the 70s it was normalized.
>>283106664Masamune ShirowShirahama Kamome
>>283106977Why did you reply to bait
>>283106982I am the fish that snaps the line.
>>283106977>>283107000dunno about Shirow, but once you mentioned Kamome, I instantly knew you were a patrician. too bad these people are not as popular nor as common as they should be, most mangas nowadays can’t help but copycat the Naruto formula.
>>283107035>most mangas nowadaysstopped reading the Weekly Shounen Jump
>>283086845World building is gay they should try the Lovecraft method like "this creature was so horrible words cannot describe it" or "the place in which they found themselves was beyond human comprehension". Authors should stop creating convoluted lore and magic systems that'll inevitably trap them in a corner they can't write themselves out of.
People here are getting all up in arms about burgers, but not about the ubiquity of modern pantsu for all the girls, rather than the more plausible fundoshi (when on the rag) or nothing at all.
>>283107044can YOU give me a good way to read more seinen stuff without being bloated with malware, then?
>>283086845For starters it's fiction and whatever is most fun or resonates with the audience is best. Also they're authors, not anthropologists with a background in world history. This sort of thing is everywhere and was even more frequent before the internet. People generally have a very ethnocentric viewpoint with no concepts of anachronisms until they grow up and learn otherwise.Try explaining to the average person there were no tomatoes or potatoes in Europe in the middle ages, mutton wasn't commonly eaten on giant cartoonish bones and rather pork was the most common meat, beer was healthier than water, and that most people ate bread of which there was an endless amount of types and was also to a great extent synonymous with both plates and gruel because thats what you do with stale bread. Also the cake and pastries the wealthy ate were likely much less consistent and luxurious than our modern storebought ones, besides in areas known for their culinary prowess, which was due to grain refining and flour production being much less standardized in the past.
>>283093173>characters that are human or look humanoid existing >characters can walk >characters communicate >characters have eyes >characters eat >characters sleepWoah, so little innovation! Just GENERIC humanoid character design and character traits! Trash! Your favorite work of fiction is trash!
>>283108197This is actually true for sci-fi aliens. No one ever bothers to actually make an alien species, they just make blue humans.
>>283108307Perhaps, but this isn't about that. It's about making up an arbitrary list of traits and then make a big deal out of a work of fiction having these traits which by some unexplained logic automatically means that the work of fiction is supposedly bad. One thing for sure. It's definitely not about actual "innovation".
>>283092438>”I don’t think thing that is false”
Niggas reading isekai:>I can't believe that they someone would discriminate against Nekomimi Beastman LoliLoli-chan just because she has animal ears!!!! I AM LITERALLY SHITTING AND PISSING MYSELF! REAL HUMANS WOULD NEVER!!!!Manwhile real humans:>You are one shade darker/lighter than me, I am now gonna genocide your entire country.
>>283093413>it's impossible to write Japanese dialogues without thoseJapanese media may be written without honorifics if the intent is to invoke a foreign setting. I played MGS3 in Japanese recently and they used no honorifics at all, which I assume is because it's written to feel like a dub of a theoretical English original like Kojima's favorite movies. This is not exactly /a/ but it is the most relevant info I have on the subject
>>283098221Based Abnett appreciator. WH40k is kind of funny as a franchise, but Abnett's 40K is actually just plain good (military) sci-fi.
>>283108190>pork was the most common meatstill is with chicken>bread of which there was an endless amount of typesstill is>grain refining and flour production being much less standardizeddidn't think of that, nice eye opener.
>>283108586Have you ever met a real human? They are way too badly written, who the fuck even came up with that.
>>283089590This is a big one, also when Miyazaki complained that authors don't go outside anymore.
>>283086845Modern Japanese mangaka and LN writers*. JRPGs ironically manage to do very interesting worlds
>>283098221What makes something "upper-crust WASP cringe"?
>>283086845When it comes to building worlds, Japanese people are the best at it—better than anyone else in the world.
>>283110111But can they build their population pyramid? Experts say: no.
>>283086845>NOOOO FANTASY MUST HAVE SCURVY, AID, AND DIARHEAAAAAAAA
>>283110145who are you quoting xister?
>>283110167im not a xister retard, go back to your shitty college and repeat your gender study course
>>283086845I'm more upset about her dumb face what idiot designed these characters
>>283109918sure when they have team of writers and artists dedicated just for worldbuilding compared to one guy doing everything
