Is it true rose means bara means faggot? Why would it be called The Faggot of Versailles?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bara_(genre)
>>283197226Too bad MC from OP's pic is just a crossdresser.
>>283197226I know that. I'm saying the title seems to either be implying Oscar is gay or transgender but she isn't
>>283197314Mhm... And OP is obviously the faggot, not Oscar.
>>283197410Then why does it say that in the title?
>>283197011OP why are you so fucking dumb
>>283197452Can you just answer the question?
It’s like saying that The Bear is about hairy men. What are you, retarded. Words mean different things in contexts. Nobody would say that Dick Tract is gay porn. That would be fucking stupid. You would be fucking stupid.
>>283197433>>283197461Faggot in Nipland is BAKA, not BARA.
>>283198179???
>>283198157>Words mean different things in contexts.Okay but given that the mangaka of RoV has created other works like Claudine featuring gay transgenders, I think she was being pretty intentional and knew what bara meant.
Rose doesn't mean faggot in French, which is where Versailles is. The conclusion point of this tortured logic of a mentally retarded person would conclude that the Rose of Versailles refers to a beef meatball.
>>283199026But the title Versailles no Bara was made by a Japanese person, in Japanese... And why do you think it's such a stretch that homosexuality or transgenderism is implied when Ikeda literally made a manga about a former lesbian, current transgender man not long after RoV?
>>283197287>a crossdresserThat's a military uniform for the position she holds as commander of the Royal Guard.Is picrel a crossdresser?
>>283199264Because words have meaning.Bara in Japanese refers specifically to a subculture of gay men. Not lesbians, not trans, not bisex etc.Unless you're so stupid that you think all those subcultures are just a mixed-up soup that all go together and love each other (they don't), a term that is a slang for gay men means nothing in the context of Versailles no Bara.
>>283199544Nta but she wore mens clothes even in her downtime so that's irrelevant.
>>283197011A faggot is a bundle of sticks or (you), words often have several meanings. What's the matter? Got offended by a transvestite anime while searching for big hairy men?
Retard The Thread
>>283199615>Bara in Japanese refers specifically to a subculture of gay men"Bara" referred to all gay comics which Ikeda was inspired by before the term "yaoi" started predominating in the 80s. Retard.
>>283199264Did you miss the part in VnB where Oscar says multiple times she's not into women, falls in love with a man, has sex with a man, and the only time lesbianism in brought into the picture was a lie thrown by an evil bitch to make Marie look worse than she was?
>>283199732Sorry for assuming that the mangaka meant something gay or transgender (or both) about the crossdressing Oscar when using the term "BARA" with the author's track record of being inspired by bara/yaoi and classic mangas featuring casts of almost solely lesbians and transgenders like Oniisama e and Claudine. I'm not the autistic one here, you're being horrifyingly pedantic.
>>283198343So not only you're a faggot, you're a homophobic faggot, got it.
>>283199815What
>>283199718You are wrong, nigger.Bara was used as an insult towards gay men for centuries, it only became used in the 1960s as a slang term for male homosexual materials, most probably after Yukio Mishima's used it as the title of his nude gay photoshoot.And you still think that gay male media is close culturally to lesbian female media, which is wrong, you piece of shit.
>>283199797At least you're sprry for being wrong. Good for you anon.
>>283199837Bara is what they called all gay manga before the term yaoi predominated in the 1980s... and Ikeda wrote about lesbians (Oniisama e) AND gay transgender men (Claudine). She also said Oscar and Andre's sex scene was supposed to look like two gay men sleeping together, being inspired by bara comics.
>>283199859So you admit you're a clueless autistic pedant who has no idea what context clues are, good for you anon.
I'm really tired of this>Erm TECHNICALLY>Uhm ACKSHUALLYAttitude on this board, honestly. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it is a fucking duck.
>iPhone poster>turbo bait threadHow does /a/ do it
>>283197011Stop acting retarded on purpose.
Imagine that. Japanese has kanji which can difference words with the same sounds. Who knew. You can take a word and put it in to all three and it'll be different each time. Amazing
>>283200185Sorry I don't sit at my computer all day
What's the pitch accent like for both baras?
10/10 bait threadwell done op who is still a fag
>>283200938Only one of them has pitch, the other has more catch.
>>283197011Yes, the same pun is used in the title of the classic arthouse film 薔薇の葬列 (1969) which retells the Oedipus myth in the context of Japan's transgender subculture
>>283201587Thanks for confirming that it's an intentional pun. The people in this thread make me disappointed
>>283197011>take a 10 volume/ 40 episode epic>condense the entire story into a 90 minute movie, cutting out several major arcs and replacing them with forgettable musical numbersGod, the 2025 remake was such wasted potential. A shame too, since a lot of love was clearly put into the designs and putting fan service in the movie. Still, at least we’ll always have the 1979 anime and the manga. Plus, the remake is better than the live action Demy movie at the very least.
>>283202563I agree. I enjoyed the music though. And glad they kept in the scene of Andre nearly poisoning Oscar.
>>283202563i dont know why they didnt just split it up into separate films. all they did was release a product that confused people new to the series and disappointed currently existing fans
>>283199264she wrote it before ROV. Eitehr way ROV is a fucking masterpiece
>>283197011Have you ever interacted with a French person? They're pretty faggoty.
>>283202563Oscar still remains the original anal queen.
>>283199264Rose of Versailles is tranny shit?Women can't write
>>283204869RoV is a masterpiece, and I know that it's just a pun, but I was wondering if someone else made the connection, and wondered if she intentionally made that joke to hint at Oscar's struggles with gender and sexual identity. To me her other works inform moments like when Oscar blushes and sounds indignant at the idea that she's a man or a lesbian, and it's not a mere angry rejection, just confusion, as if she'd never considered it, because most of the narrative seems to enjoy flirting with those themes with Oscar.
>>283206079I never got that from Oscar. She's very feminine at times and knows she's a woman.
>>283197011I still can't figure it out, despite all those years. Maybe that is the true Rose in the Rose of Versailles?
>>283206189You can see weird sissies in various places who call Oscar a trans.
>>283202563>revolutionary France slop about crossdressers gets a bad movie years laterGood.
>>283206320I wonder why they would do that. There's only 913730382 jokes about her being a man in it and she only says she wants to be a man multiple times.>>283206292Read a book please, bara was the catch-all name for gay comics in the 70s and only in the 80s did the shift between the term and "yaoi" happen. Also the shift to masculine and older men happened to bara genre in the 90s.
>>283199972well she is a man thenand the f/a/ggots in this thread WILL become women and they WILL like it
>>283204150My guess is that they were trying to make it more like the Takarazuka musicals, which also tell quite fragmented versions of the story that you can barely understand unless you’re familiar with the original manga and anime. The best thing to come out of the remake is that we had a story time of the manga here earlier this year because of it, and also, I really dig some of the new character designs. They knocked it out of the park with Rosalie’s redesign in particular, which makes it all the more criminal that she was barely in the movie.>>283206320Those kinds of people call any tomboy or reverse trap trans. It’s true that Ikeda is supportive of trans people (as shown in Claudine), but RoV goes to extensive lengths to show that Oscar identifies as a woman, and that her desire to a man is both metaphorical and a cope because she’s too insecure to confront the fact that she actually has feminine emotions.
>>283208990>RoV goes to extensive lengths to show that Oscar identifies as a womanIt does not do that though... and the idea of Oscar wanting to be a man being a "cope" for "hidden femininity" is a headcanon I see repeated a lot, but it's not reflected in the text. Any femininity Oscar had was forced and trying to appeal to what she thought men wanted. It seems more to me that Oscar's ending was just like the lesbian Oniisama e characters all ending up in heterosexual partnerships - the return to convention being a tragic denial of self. Especially since in Claudine, Ikeda presents the main character as being the pinnacle of self-actualization who also succumbs to a tragic death and commits physical and spiritual suicide. And idk who keeps repeating in this thread that Claudine came before RoV, but RoV was published in 1972 and Claudine in 1978.
>>283209090It was Oscar’s masculine traits that were imposed upon her by her father and society. It’s an inversion of the cliche of a woman’s feminine traits being imposed on them that makes the same point about gender roles and expectations being oppressive. Oscar ends the series by learning to embrace her masculine and feminine sides as both equally valid parts of herself rather than thinking that she has to be one or the other. Point is that she’s not a tranny. RoV was written as an allegory for the women’s rights movement in Japan that flared up during the 60’s, that aimed to give women more autonomy in their lives.
>>283209292>It was Oscar’s masculine traits that were imposed upon her by her father and societyNo? Oscar was masculine from a young age, roughhousing and swordfighting with the boys before she was given the order to become part of the Royal Guard. She didn't want anything to do with other women. And she said she wanted to live as a man after her father was going to force her to marry Girodelle. She only wore that ball gown, which was totally unlike her, which Fersen pointed out, to try to impress him because she knew he liked Marie, who was feminine. So I don't think masculinity was imposed on her at all. The only thing she protested about serving Marie is that she would have to stay in close proximity to a feminine, high-maintenance woman.
>>283209401And also>Point is that she’s not a tranny.I'm not saying she's a tranny in the text. I'm saying that there seems to be allusions to proto-transgenderism (and lesbianism) in her writing, including the title of the series.
>>283209401>>283209427Also, I see where you're coming from with the fact that her father raised her as a boy, but my point is that to say that because of that masculinity was "forced" onto her is like saying every girl socialized as a girl or boy socialized as a boy is "forced" to be that. No, if you raise a child as a boy he's naturally going to want to grow up to be a man unless he explicitly states otherwise. Which Oscar did want to. It was her father that suddenly jerked that way of life away from her by trying to marry her off. Then suddenly his strong, capable son becomes his beautiful daughter. So I don't think masculinity was forced onto Oscar. I think she was naturally masculine because she was raised as a boy, but society and her father were at dissonance with that as she grew out of the androgyny of youth.
>>283209572I didn't say that, what the fuck is wrong with you?
>>283199544Women weren't soldiers back in the day anon. Sure you had the occasional girl who snuck into the army but a military uniform was understood to be men's clothing. By your logic a man in a maid uniform is not a crossdresser if he is a maid.
Why do some people argue Oscar is trans when the series makes it clear she’s not? Can’t masculine women just be masculine women?
I swear most people in this thread haven't even watched the anime or read the manga
>>283209090>It does not do that though...Yes it does. The other characters even call her Lady Oscar and she doesn't get mad about it. She knows she's a woman.What she's conflicted about is duty. Does she remain loyal to the crown as her royal commander or does she rebel and join the French army. There's nothing tranny about it.
>>283212021Most people who post in RoV threads are fans of the series though. RoV threads are rare, but comfy and unusually civil by /a/ standards. At worst, you get the odd shit poster saying its a “tranny series”.
>>283212078Something I find weird about the Udon official English translation of the manga is that they translate “Oscar-sama” as “Lord Oscar”, when literally every other translation no matter the language translates it as “Lady Oscar”. Feels like a weird choice considering how iconic the name “Lady Oscar” is.
