>pick up seinen magazine>It's mostly romance and slice-of-life seriesSo where did this idea of Seinen being "gritty" or "mature" come from? That only applies to a handful like Berserk. For the rest, the only difference between it and your average shonen manga is that the characters are "adults".
>>283261228Adult themes like cheating, politics, rapes etc....
I want to be a doctor!
>>283261410Those aren't "adult themes"
>>283261228When you're an adult you'll understand. Come back when you're over 18 zoomoid
>>283261228From edgy teenagers trying to appear "mature"
>>283261228Seinen typically just means the authors stop pretending that people don't have sex.
>>283261451Oh so you're retarded. Glad to clear that up so quickly.
>>283261839By this logic, Dragon Ball is a seinen
There's a ton of different seinen magazines with focus on different things. Read something like Young King or Young King Bull.>the only difference between it and your average shonen manga is that the characters are "adults".Plenty of series with teenage or even child characters. The real difference is whether they have furigana or not.
>>283261228Seinen manga is basically divided into misery porn and shonen that should labeled as shonen but instead is considered seinen
>>283262481They literally just describe the target audience, nothing more.If it's intended for boys, it's shonen. If it's intended for adult men, it's seinen. Simple as. They don't have specific "styles".
>>283262481A lot of misery porn is aimed at women.
>>283261451Yeah, they are a manchild idea of adult themes. Hence why edgy and gory works are considered "mature" despite being superficial. Seinen tends to be more introspective of its topics and leaning toward things that kids wouldn't find interesting or that they wouldn't have any understanding of. Also >>283261839
>>283261410Those are plot elements, not themes.
>why am i retarded>thread number gazillionTime to hit bumplimit once again
>>283262559There's some things that won't float in a shonen magazine but the only thing you can't run in a seinen magazine is detailed genitals.>adult menIt can begin with 16 upward. Some mags have an older audience than others.
>>283261228>So where did this idea of Seinen being "gritty" or "mature" come from?Americans who only read/became exposed to via anime what got imported into their country ('gritty' stuff, because it sells). Publishing companies and scanlators didn't give a crap about SoL/romcom stuff for the longest time.
>>283262481>>283262559The categorization is beyond fucked, CSM its considered a shonen when its arguably an adult-themed manga. Apothecary diaries is a seinen despite having a josei-esq lead couple. And Kaguya-sama is a seinen despite being a shonen (I dont need to explain this one, do I?)Its a marketing ploy, nothing more, nothing less.
It's time to start judging books by their cover.Does this look like it features brutal violence and gruesome horror?
In japan shonen and seinen and the like are demographics, not genres; its like saying manga for boys and manga for young men and manga for girls and manga for young women and when westerners talk shounen they mean battle manga and when they say seinen they mean battle manga but dark and mature for grown ups like me
>>283262724Read this and you'll understand.
>>283262724>Apothecary diaries is a seinenManga based on light/web novels shouldn't count. Perhaps it was the only magazine that offered the writer the kind of royalties she demanded.
>>283262724>CSM its considered a shonen when its arguably an adult-themed mangaAHAHAHA, Chainsaw Man is for kids
>>283262715I mean, adult and mature means "gritty and dark" in America to begin with.>>283262724Retard, that categorization depends on the magazine. If a seinen magazine picked up Kaguya-sama or Apothecary they are going to be considered seinen independently if they are more shoujo/josei, just like how CSM is shit independently of being published on Young Jump or Shounen Jump.
>>283262826There's some clichés attached to shonen and shojo manga that end up defining a stereotypical series for those.But that doesn't really apply to seinen or josei.
>not a single mention of the magazine's name in questionCurious.
>>283262866It has two different concurrent adaptions, one in Big Gangan and one in Sunday GX.
>>283262899I was told it only depends on the target demographic
>>283262899Maybe he meant Morning since he posted a Morning volume. But he could have posted the Morning cover for that.
>>283262946You can't even name a single seinen magazine you read?Do you even know Japanese?
>>283262877>adult and mature means "gritty and dark" in America[citation needed]
>>283263007>Here says its a seinen manga>So it must be a seinen manga!Nigga use your own brain
>>283263053Why do you lie about reading magazines?
>>283261228What idiots like you don't understand is the different parts of Seinen. Magazines like Young Jump and Young Magazine focus on an early 20s demographic. If you look at the content of Young Magazine, its mostly violence, gangs and sex. Then there are Seinen magazines for older men like Big Comic and Big Comic Original. A lot of it deals with politics, history and salaryman life. Then there are Seinen magazines like Afternoon, Big Comic Spirits and Harta which are more for the artsy, more subcultural crowd. These are just some examples because I could give you even more categories.Seinen being dark and gritty is just a stereotype in the west. Not even 1% of Seinen gets animated because Anime viewers are nerds that don't want to watch something more political or close to real life.
>>283262877By that logic, anything that happens in a manga could just be seen as unrelated to its genre, which is just stupid.
>>283263123>Not even 1% of Seinen gets animatedI'd reckon it's a lot less than that, though still a far higher percentage than josei or shojo.Even the genres popular in animation get a few dozen adaptions per year while thousands of new series get published.
>>283261228characters having a job is the most gritty and grim setting that shonentards can imagine
>>283262988You don't post a really old Morning manga that ended ages ago instead of a cover of one of its issues when talking about magazines, anon. That's silly. OP purposely omitted the name of the magazine (and still refuses to say it) he supposedly read but mentioned "Berserk" as an example of maturity, and that only a few series can be called as such. So either he's a retarded normalfag or he's intentionally starting shit here for some asinine reason.
>>283263223Yes, and most Seinen that get animated are more universal in its themes like Kaguya-sama which could run in almost any magazine. A Manga like Ushijima-kun which deals with some very heavy themes in Japanese society would never seen an Anime because its not something Otakus who watch Vtubers and play Uma Musume want to see.
>>283263354>its not something Otakus who watch Vtubers and play Uma Musume want to seeYou could say that about plenty of seinen manga that got anime adaptations.
>>283261228Babby's first seinen is a saying for a reason
>>283262559Last year in middle school isn't "adult men"
>>283262801Yes
>>283263856I never said no Seinen gets animated at all but like I said its a very small number. Chi won every award possible before getting animated. The hype was there and with some luck where some producer pushes for its adaptation, there is a good chance it will get animated.
>>283263313That's still an adult struggle, something most shonen protagonists lack
>>283263988This season for instance we have as seinen manga adaptions:Ninja to GokudouOne Punch ManWandanceEgao no Taenai Shokuba Desu.KingdomToujima Tanzaburou wa Kamen Rider ni Naritai Alma-chan wa Kazoku ni NaritaiKekkon Yubiwa Monogatari Nohara Hiroshi Hirumeshi no RyuugiBukiyou na Senpai. Yano-kun no Futsuu no HibiMaybe Watatabe and Shuumatsu Touring but I'm inclined to count Maoh as shonen.It's clearly a specific subset compared to the overall offerings.
>>283263214>retard thinks that demographic is the same as genrelol
>>283261228Only people who don't know shit about manga think that.
>>283266450>bumping this shitty thread from page 10No anon, you are the retards.
>>283266450>brownoid can't read EnglishMany such cases
>>283266813>NO ULoud and clear, Prakaash, loud and clear.
check out any of the shitty seinen web platforms that dont have to worry about a magazine or really even physical sales. its littered with borderline porn that essentially "clickbaits" every other chapter and it all reads like its actually aimed at teenagers, as vapid as any shonenslop or romcom, just enough of trainwrecks to keep people looking
>>283262852Why didn't you use the translated version!?
>>283267474Because I can't read English.
>>283261228>Say_Hello_to_Black_JackAbsolute kino. Read it back in 2009 I think, it was really a great read.>So where did this idea of Seinen being "gritty" or "mature" come from?Nigger have you read it? It is very much an adult story about the state of the medical sector and the realities of being a medicine graduate.>That only applies to a handful like Berserk.Berserk is garbage. Pointless edge only beloved by 19 year olds and faggots who masturbate to the rape scenes.
>>283266831>reporting a post calling you outok saaar
>>283263223Shojo and josei tend to get live action adaptations because that's cheaper to make and appeals to the target demographic more. Most such series are grounded romance dramas anyway.
>>283267859>>reportingI didnt but hey these jannies are alright lol
So uhm, where do I find the Kino manga like Orb, Shamo, and Ichi the Killer
>>283268621Sorry they don't get translations, for example Pic related
>>283268747the french have gotten this one, is there a website that list every french manga licence? I dont want to do my anki reps
>>283268893>is there a website that list every french manga licence?
>>283261228>>So where did this idea of Seinen being "gritty" or "mature" come fromkids that only read Berserk and nothing else.
>>283270364yea I forgot an s, doesnt change the fact that the french get so many more niche manga than any other country
>>283271767>the fact that the french get so many more niche manga than any other countryTrue
Dead general lol
>>283261228>>283261410>>283261839"Seinen" is just what demographic is being marketed towards. Manga run in a seinen magazine do not innately have what you describe, they have what would be appealing to the adult male demographic. Really, works like Berserk and Vinland Saga are the outliers of seinen, as a fair majority of them end up being comedies and dramas in the vein of Fukumoto's works rather than these big action/battle manga.
>>283261228Slice of life is gritty and mature.
>>283268018Seinen as well.
>>283267474If you can't read Japanese then your opinion on manga topics is worthless.
>>283263123>Not even 1% of Seinen gets animated because Anime viewers are nerds that don't want to watch something more political or close to real life.Sucks cause i would watch an anime like that, but half the time it gets handed to a shit studioStill mad at the My Home Hero adaptation
>>283261228It's just marketing. There are plenty of shonen manga that would have benefited from being seinen manga instead so they could have had more freedom to add more serious scenes, plot points, more adult characters, no forced school setting, maybe more or less fanservice, etc. I read JJK recently and I suspect it would have been better as a seinen manga because the more interesting anf popular characters are all adults and some aspects of the story are kinda trashy but it focuses on teenage protagonists and stays "acceptable" for teenagers as if editors were worried it could have been too gory or not optimistic enough for the target audience.
>>283278189That's just shit you are imagining with no basis in reality.Read more manga and pay more attention to the magazines they're published in.
>>283278257>Read more manga and pay more attention to the magazines they're published in.Already doing it since forever. It's all just marketing, as I said. Why is Black Butler not a shojo manga when it's basically a Hana to Yume manga in spirit? Same thing with Pandora Hearts. Why was Bastard a manga in the Shonen Jump back then but would never have been allowed in a shonen magazine if it started now and stayed the exact same? Why are western fans always shocked that Nana is a shojo manga and Kuragehime is a josei manga? Why are there a lot less edgy action shojo manga now compared to the 90s? You know damn well X by Clamp is a shojo manga but something like that would be put in a shonen oe seinen magazine if it started now. City Hunter would have been in a seinen magazine as well instead of the shonen jump if it started now. Kowloon Generic Romance would have worked just fine in a shojo magazine but it's a seinen manga for whatever reason, probably because it's easier to get an anime adaptation later. I could go on. Right now marketing trends are different compared to when I started reading manga and it's very obvious. Whether a manga will be labeled as a shojo, shonen or seinen manga depends on how much the publishing companies want an anime adaptation and how much gore and sex they can put in the story. There's also how seinen manga don't have furigana.
>>283278400Now go back and read your own post.>There are plenty of shonen manga that would have benefited from being seinen manga instead so they could have had more freedom to add more serious scenes, plot points, more adult characters, no forced school setting, maybe more or less fanservice, etc.
>>283261228>where did this idea of Seinen being "gritty" or "mature" come from?grown-up wannabe kids
>>283278469Yes that's true at the same time. Because some stories have useless shit added to them once the artists and writers talk about how they planned adult characters but made them teenagers going to some magic school to make them more popular with younger readers. And the editors are the ones imposing or suggesting these changes, which usually make these stories more boring than they could have been.
I read a great seinen maga recently. Watashi wa Shingo. Huge umezu fan now, I didn't like other stuff by him as much, not as gripping. But Shingo is a 10/10. That's a real seinen
>Re: Zero Kara Hajimeru Isekai Seikatsu Dai-Ichi-Shō: Ōto no Ichinichi-hen), began serialization in ... seinen manga magazine Monthly Comic Alive on June 27, 2014.>A second manga, titled Re:Zero ... began serialization in Square Enix's seinen magazine Monthly Big Gangan on October 25, 2014>seinen magazine uh oh...seinenbros??! We read re:zero??
>>283267474
>>283279477Comic Alive is shonen. Re:Zero is a novel.
>>283279139How does that explain all the adult main characters in shonen series and teenagers in seinen series?There's two dozen shonen magazines aside from Jump and they all work differently.
>>283279790>every source from wiki to manga taggers say it's seinen >only you say it's shonen>doubt.jpg>implication is Big Gangan is seinenThe novel was accepted by seinen magazine for mature individuals (Big Gangan). ergo, seinen.
>>283279877Compare Alive to Flapper or Cune. It's clearly intended for a younger audience and features furigana.>every source from wiki to manga taggers English language sources are all full of shit.https://comic-walker.com/detail/KC_002386_S/episodes/KC_0023860006600021_E>少年
These are all just general marketing branding for convenience at the end of day. The actual content at any one time is entirely dependent on the direction the editorial department wants to take, even something like telling the PTA to fuck off and put T&A all over their supposedly shounen mag or maybe be more discrete about it. Seinen just ended up being the most varied since its the easiest to sell just about anything to men of developed mind as opposed to women and children that can largely only conform to specific frameworks or go through predictable rebellious phases. Over time, it became that anything can be seinen, but only certain characteristics are passable to be published in shounen, shoujo or josei due to the self restraints those in management put on those brands and the reinforcement cycle of their readership. So if you want the most flexibility, just go seinen, whether you're a creator or a reader.
>>283279974damn, the manga really goes all seinen in Gangan...just look at his face being all seinen..but you switch to Alive and it's suddenly shonen...I kneel...
>>283263334>its the easiest to sell just about anything to men of developed mind as opposed to women and childrenWomen are better customers but women also buy seinen and shonen.>So if you want the most flexibility, just go seinenYou still have to pick a publisher and publication and that's where the real distinctions are.
>>283279864I said "trends" not "rules".
>>283280255Women also buy seinen and shounen because they can also cater to their preferred genres, with maybe just enough something different here and there (seinen more so than shounen which is most of the time for fujos mainly).Male readers are much less likely to dive into shoujo and josei wholesale just as seinen readers of genres not found in shounen are not likely to buy your typical shounen mag. They just have more limited, conforming offerings specifically aimed at their one major readership.>You still have to pick a publisher and publication and that's where the real distinctions are.Yeah, but seinen offers way more options as a whole for reasons stated. The fact that they can spin off into different ranges of specializations is far beyond the other demographic brandings, which have largely the same few variety across different mags of the same type.
>>283280560You get some variety in shonen by not reading WSJ.
>>283280459It's not even trends. It's just your own retardation.
>>283280560>which have largely the same few variety across different mags of the same type.What type? You're better off thinking in terms of magazine families.Young Dragon Age is closer to Dragon Age than it is to Young Ace even though both are spinoffs with more mature content.
>>283280754Type as in shounen/shoujo/josei.Remember, I'm not saying these don't have enough distinctions, but on the macro level, seinen has them beat by naturally incorporating all of them and more
>>283280807You're making up a barrier between shonen and seinen that doesn't really exist.It's just a great field where every mag stakes their claims. There's no seinen magazine that covers absolutely everything.
>>283280829>These are all just general marketing branding for convenience at the end of day. The actual content at any one time is entirely dependent on the direction the editorial department wants to takeLiterally my first words>There's no seinen magazine that covers absolutely everythingYes, because of page count and other sales considerations, but I'm talking about the whole umbrella of seinen vs others, not any one seinen mag vs the whole of other demographic brandings
You wouldn't believe the number of people who go>heh, I read really obscure manga...oh, it's from the WSJ btwDo you even try?? ugh...
>>283280985Seinen is basically a wastebasket for the magazines that don't identify as something more specific. You never say "I want to go seinen", you pick a specific publication to read or contribute to.
Goddamn I love Harta/Fellows. Between their line-up and the original illustration covers, it's one of the few magazines I could see myself regularly buying.
>>283281661
>>283281837
How do you go from this >>283281661 to this?
>>283281877Never recovered from the loss of his daughters.
>>283281661>it's one of the few magazines I could see myself regularly buying.What exactly is stopping you?
>>283282347You know, that's a good point. They're like ~5$ each without shipping costs. Might splurge and pick a few of the ones with the short story anthologies.
>>283282442Digital doesn't have shipping costs and we'll probably get another sale with 100 yen for the older issues at the end of the year.
>>283281869From 85 onward you need to include the table of contents and title page for the full story.
>>283282620
>>283282639cute
>>283262852I can't read....
>>283279139An editor's job is to improve a story by trimming the fat
