He is extremely based, and im tired of pretending he’s not.
He's a fag. Everything he does is wrong
>>283483061That's a man!?
>>283483402That’s a man, baby!
>>283483148Still more masculine than guts. Your self-insert got raped as a child
>>283483061I understand why Griffith had to be a male instead of female. A female would have breasts which would signal adulthood. But with Griffith's flat, hairless chest he's able to resemble a child into adulthood.
>>283483061Why were you pretending in the first place you dumb mongoloid, are you that desperate for approval?
>>283483148Guts is cringe he is a simp for Cosca
>>283483582Griffith voluntarily sold his own ass to this king for money.
>>283484574That makes him extremely based
>>283484574Pragmatically he made the best choice up to the end. Only better mind over Griffith is probably Light Yagami or if we go to western comics, Ozymandias.
>>283485097Then your mom is also based.
>>283483061Just like Hitler his only mistake is that he lost. He is now the slave to the god hand as much as he larps as a leader
>>283483061I mean, he got himself locked up and tortured, Even if you ignore what he did at the eclipse...
>>283485997I just know he fucked Slan at least once
>>283486437Probably got pegged by Slan and that's about it.
>>283486494No, Femto likes fucking, Slan wants cock.
>>283486569Femto still can't ever get satisfied
>>283483582>more masculine>sell ass for moneyU droped your dilitator.
>>283483061He sold out all of his men and friends. He sold out his ass to an ugly bastard. Unless you are a woman you would be revolted at such deeds.
>>283485118You can't discount David Xanatos from the Western side. But Griffith is a chump compared to Yagami.
>>283488776He couldn't defeat L in the end
>>283489567L died, Light lived. So your moveGriffith raped Casca and Gus could only watch. They are based
>>283483061He was so cool.
>>283488468He's got that sigma grindset to achieve his own kingdom at any means necessary. That is andrew tate maxxxing
>>283486374>Even if you ignore what he did at the eclipse...that's what makes him based. he didn't cuck out on his dream after all he's been through.
>>283483061I always thought he could work as a woman
>>283483061>pretending what you think at allwoman moment
>>283492291If Griffith was a woman fujoshis would hate her for being a wanton homewrecking slut. She'd be hated even more than male Griffith and easily top worst character of all time lists.
>Ugh, WTF is wrong with this cunt? She's so grossly possessive! Just let Guts be with his girlfriend, freak!>Taking a shower naked? Typical oversexed female love interest...>She was a PROSTITUTE? Get her away from my sweet boy Guts! She's disgusting and shameless! And of course, female characters ALWAYS have to revolve around SEX!>Narcisssitic murdering bitch!
What's the endgame of being an apostle?Don't you just experience some fleeting power as an insane monster and then you guaranteed go to hell forever no matter what? Will Griffith still care about his castle when he's tortured in the soul nexus forever ..?
>>283483148He is very clearly portrayed as doing literally nothing wrong until the tragedy of the eclipse. Everyone who opposes him is a comically evil corrupt asshole, if not literally controlled by the Godhand conspiring to bring the Eclipse. Even Guts does more fucked up shit before the Eclipse (and even more after) than Griffith is ever alleged to do, like killing a child, killing his adopted father, killing people for money in general.>>283484574To save more of his people.>>283488468Griffith is the victim.The cult of millennial Berserk fans who think they are supposed to hate Griffith after watching only the old TV series is weird.
>>283493161Who are you quoting?
>>283493814>>283493068
>>283493229In the short time Griffith had to consider the decision before being groomed by the Godhand after trying to commit suicide, he probably wasn't thinking much other than "I am in so much fucking pain and I can't move my limbs and everyone was ready to move on without me after I was being tortured for 2 years." The endgame is still in question to this day, so you asked a good question. On the surface, he is using his godly powers to create an otherworldy utopia where apostles and humans are living peacefully and connected by a magical teleportation tree. The "Peoples" he "conquered" to do so were ruled by evil apostles in the first place, so there really isn't much to go on. It might be something like this: the idea of evil/Godhand/collective will of humanity, fueled by the hatred and violence in their primitive savagery, conspire to offer the ultimate sacrifice, all of humanity, to death, as the food for the immortal apostles, which are increasingly intelligent as the story progresses. Its hard to imagine a scenario where Griffith is the villain, to the extent that Grifith still is Griffith and not a puppet of the idea of evil.
>>283483061He forced young Guts to follow him instead of befriending him like a normal person (in comparison, Guts never forced his JRPG party to follow him and risk their lives for him). He sold his ass to an old man for money. He sacrificed his followers and condemned them to hell for power. All in all, his biggest flaw is his unreasonable ambition. His second biggest flaw is his excessive narcissism. It's good to aim high and have an optimistic view of yourself, but keep a level head.
>>283494023How on earth do you misread the story this badly?
>>283494023>It's everyone's fault EXCEPT Griffith'sI used to think it was trolling, but now I just think it's mental illness, that or some undercover women are here (they don't understand how morality works and think might always makes right).
>>283493229>just experience some fleeting power as an insane monsterThe godhand offer you what you desire the most in the worst moment of your life. That's the appeal.>then you guaranteed go to hell forever no matter whatYes. Accepting their offer is folly and will inevitably turn both you and everything you love into fuel for the Idea of Evil.
>>283494023>everyone was ready to move on without me after I was being tortured for 2 years.Griffith was tortured for one year after committing treason by raping the king's daughter and it wouldn't have made sense for the band, which he chose to abandon, to retrieve him and then not come up with a way to take care of him. They were all divising a plan for his care, besides Guts, because the last time he tried to peacefully leave Griffith he tried to kill him. Griffith is a dangerous and violently impulsive person, even capable of being so when his limbs barely worked. I can't blame Guts for not wanting to stay behind with him a second time.
>>283494256Griffith has done literally nothing wrong before or after the eclipse, even after he was stripped of his humanity during the eclipse. Maybe some irrelevant characters died in an unintended way because they were in the wrong place wrong time, or because they were being controlled by an evil apostle. The spirit people didn't die, they just went the the spirit realm somewhere, and we still don't know why Griffith does anything he did since being reincarnated because he doesn't talk. The story actually starts comparing Guts to Griffith in the Lost Children arc. He could be the puppet of the idea of evil, which is where all the the apostles derive their power from, and exists through the will of humans to do evil. As much as he looks like the villain, he has only done good for the people and the apostles under him. The Kushan were ruled by an apostle, or a man who voluntarily became an apostle with an artificial behelit (made using evil methods). They don't really have any real reason to hate him, except that he threatens their autonomy and order enforced with their own magical demon powers. The only evidence of Griffith being evil is "vibes" and that Guts hates him. Nobody else really names him. It is always about the "Godhand," which is not the same as Griffith. Maybe Griffith became the puppet for the idea of evil/Godhand to usher in an age of demon rule and free human meat forever, we just don't know. The mystery is what makes it good.The "hell" anon described is the hell the sacrifices for the eclipse go to, at least in the case of a regular behelit. The count went there because he was offered the choice between regenerating himself or saving his daughter from sacrifice, or something. AFAIK that doesn't apply to regular apostles, or to Femto born from the special Eclipse.
>>283494765Do you really not understand the point of the Idea of Evil? It's not seperate from humanity... it *is* humanity and says so explicitly. IoE even refers to Griffith as "human" after his heart supposedly froze. There's no mystery, Griffith isn't a "puppet," it's a metaphor for the collective will of humanity. Griffith represents a warped version of the Nietzschean overman fueled by ressentiment rather than master morality - someone who would like to think he's beyond petty revenge but actually isn't.
>>283494645>>283494343Charlotte liked it, and still loves Griffith after he came back. She would have never asked for what happened to him, and she didn't want the King to know about it. The King (her biological father) also tried to ACTUALLY rape her. This is what I mean when I say everyone but Griffith is portrayed as weak or evil. You are clearly not supposed to like what the King did in response. It is supposed to be shocking and horrifying. The evil world finally caught up to the strong and virtuous Griffith, who -- I must say again since no one addresses it -- does nothing wrong or worthy of hate before the eclipse. Everyone loves him, except the corrupt establishment, which no work is done to try to redeem, and for which work is done to actually demean.Of course, this one event brought Griffith's own downfall. You could say he did that wrong from his own perspective. That is obviously the point of the story. He makes a mistake in a moment of weakness after his boyfriend and best soldier leaves his band. It wasn't really evil though. It is not a reason for the viewer to hate Griffith, like everyone pretends they are supposed to.The Band didn't know where he was. If I remember correctly, they might not have even known he was alive, held by the Kingdom, or being tortured until shortly before/after Guts was notified. Its not that he blames them for not rescuing him right away, though. Its that he felt despair at how weak he became while everyone moved on. His dream, which inspired him and everyone else, was dead, and he saw there was no glory in the future for any of them, and he would have just held them back, and his personal QOL could not have been much worse.>impulsiveIn the case of Charlotte only.Bottom line: Griffith did nothing wrong, and literal God Cthulu demons and evil itself conspired to rob him of his humanity and turn him into the King of the Godhand from a 1000 year old prophecy.
>>283483061Based on what?
>>283495186>everyone but Griffith is portrayed as weak or evil.>He makes a mistake in a moment of weakness>Its that he felt despair at how weak he becameYou don't even have an argument, you're contradicting yourself and just saying shit at this point. How can you say Griffith is not evil compared to anyone else when he's the only one who took advice from the IDEA OF EVIL? Griffith is portrayed as both weak AND evil. He is the manifestation of humanity's worst traits in one person.
>>283494876>Do you really not understand the point of the Idea of Evil?Maybe, maybe not. It only appeared in one chapter, and I can't even read the original language. I interpreted it is being born from humanity's immortal resentments. I wouldn't say that is much different from being humanity, as you say. Maybe you are suggesting that it is a metaphor, but, in that case, the evil thing isn't Griffith, but humanity. Griffith is portrayed as a virtuous superhuman who can do no wrong and wins against evil and corruption so that the author can show us that not even he is immune from negative impulses, but, in universe, he is still all those things before humanity's idea of evil drags him down to their level.> IoE even refers to Griffith as "human" after his heart supposedly froze.Well, he certainly isn't an Apostle. He is stripped of a part of him, like the Godhand mention in this eclipse and the event with the Count in the first story arc. At that point, he also hadn't transformed into Femto yet. What else would it call him? And what did the Japanese call him?> There's no mystery, Griffith isn't a "puppet,"The eclipse was a 1000 year long conspiracy to create the king of demons. The apostles (Zodd and Wyald) stated that they felt the time was coming, that the Godhand, or idea of evil, or whatever was close to reviving the demon king. That would suggest that there is a force in universe that is controlling or acting through Femto. It's absurd to apply such stringent standards to a suicidal, possibly delusional man, especially when the world is conspiring to turn him into the king of evil, which actually means the king of everyone gets what they want and lives happily in Falconia somehow. Regardless, Griffith's dream, what motivates him before and after the Eclipse, isn't inherently evil. The only things in question are his actions after transforming into Femto and before he lets Guts escape, and maybe that he couldn't resist the grooming from the Godhand.
>>283495626>what did the Japanese call him?A human. And the word "human" is repeated multiple times not only throughout the 83rd chapter but throughout the Eclipse to refer to Femto.It's a huge misreading to take a story so intent on blurring the lines between good/evil and man/monster and try to take literally any of those categories, like "Griffith lost his humanity during the Eclipse!" It's like if an elementary schooler with bad object permanence read Berserk and tried to make sense of the Femto suit transformation. Though I know you are reading the story in bad faith on purpose, as you'd have to to make multiple Griffith apologist schizoposts in a semi-serious way. Continue misreading the story for your own amusement, but don't be surprised when no one else is convinced by the fanfiction you made up.
>>283494876>There's no mystery, Griffith isn't a "puppet,"As I said, the manga gives the impression that the Godhand/evil conspired to make Griffith Femto in the eclipse that happens every 1000 years. That suggests there a force independent from Femto/Griffith. There is no reason for Griffith to want anything other than to build his kingdom after the eclipse, even if I accept the premise that he did any or all of the eclipse for revenge. His kingdom is what he builds in Falconia. What is the endgame of Berserk? Guts killing the king of Falconia that everyone loves? Has evil just disappeared? Maybe Griffith is building Falconia to sacrifice all mortal life to the immortal apostles or something equally evil. The problem with that is that there is no reason for Griffith to want that. He got his revenge on Guts/the King of Tudor who ruined him. If Griffith is working toward something evil, it can only be because the eclipse stripped him of his humanity, or because the same forces that conspired to put him in the position he is in are conspiring to exploit his drive to action to do evil. If Griffith is not working toward something evil, it doesn't really make sense to talk about him as an antagonist just because the Godhand groomed him from the most virtuous character in the story into the least for a brief moment.
>>283495994Stop using the term "grooming," that has sexual connotations and it comes off as hypocritical when you're defending a character that groomed and raped a 16 year old over the span of 2 years. The Godhand were a gaggle of bitter sunk cost liars and crabs in a bucket, that doesn't make them groomers. Grooming is longterm, over an extended period of time. They gave Griffith a choice momentarily and he took it out of spite.
>>283483148This
>>283496107>16 year old>2 yearsSooooooo an 18 year old?
>>283495618Before the eclipse, Griffith did nothing wrong. Miura clearly intends for the reader to come away with this conclusion. All of his political enemies are portrayed as corrupt, and all his violence is a calculated reaction to theirs. He is always thinking about the lives of his men, and they all love him to leading them to victory.After the Eclipse, he also probably did nothing wrong. We could say he might be indirectly responsible for some deaths of unnamed peasants or rival apostles, but on the whole there is no evidence that his Kingdom stands for evil. Falconia is clearly more civilized, humane, and orderly than anywhere else. The only thing that is ambiguous is his treatment of the former Band -- when it is implied he might have tried to assassinate Rickert -- or the threat he poses to the sovereignty of the Kushan people, even though they were ruled by an Apostle already anyway. At the very least, we can say that his actions post eclipse do not justify the status of "evil antagonist who must be killed."The only potential moment of weakness or evil in Griffith is during the eclipse, which happened in the course of a single night, after he already tried to kill himself out of despair and was groomed into becoming Femto. Of course, after all of his tendons were cut and he wasted away in prison for 1-2 years, he is very weak. He also struggled with mental despair after he is rescued and reminded of what could have been, and contemplated what will be. In this position, he can't truly consent, and Cthulu Gods were conspiring to make him their king for 1000 years anyway. Griffith is the victim, duh.
>>283496257Yeah she was most likely 18 by the time he was saved, but his grooming of her started when she was 16 and he raped her when she was 17. Also kek "she liked it so it wasn't rape."
>>283496279>groomed>can't truly consent
>>283495720>It's a huge misreading to take a story so intent on blurring the lines between good/evil and man/monster and try to take literally any of those categoriesThat also applies to your moral judgements about someone's individual character. Griffith's situation is literally impossible in real life, but you are applying modern standards to a medieval fantasy with Cthulu demons and prophecies. How can it blur the lines between good and evil while also expecting you to hate the guy Miura wrote for you to love after one bad decision, the effects of which he isn't really even responsible for?
The point is, only an evil person would say 'yes' to 'will you condemn all your friends and allies to eternal torment to fulfill your selfish dream'. Even at their lowest moment.>But they were soldiers under his command who were already dying and willing to die for himDying normally VS being a demon sacrifice. Big difference because your soul ends up in much worse afterlife
>>283483061gay anal sex to get a warband.
>>283496414No it doesn't because Griffith as an individual is unique, people either love or hate him both in and out of story, because he does great and awful things. But I never said Griffith was good or evil. He's just a worse person than any other character in the story. You are also using modern standards to critique the story, such as not viewing anything wrong with committing treason against your country, nothing wrong with raping someone else's daughter, nothing wrong with prostitution, nothing wrong with homosexuality etc. So of course I can judge Griffith by my modern moral standards (thinking it's bad to rape minors) if you can and the story, while set in medieval times, was written in the 90s which was not that long ago.
>>283496107He was literally groomed. The force of causality was protecting him and gave him his luck and success. Remember the behelit protecting him form a poison arrow during the hunt? Remember Zodd fleeing their first battle once he understood who Griffith was? If Griffith wasn' tthe one, the eclipse wouldn't have happened, and he would have gotten the Crimson Behelit, and he probably wouldn't have had such great success. He may not have even been born. His backstory doesn't even have any characters in it. He is just a random orphan in the city who wants to be a king.
>>283496534So how do you figure Griffith was ever able to falter if causality was protecting him the whole time?
>>283496534>His backstory doesn't even have any characters in it. Wrong, there is the old lady who was concerned for Rickert and wanted to warn him before walking towards the Eclipse but ultimately thought better of it, saying you can't stop fate. I don't believe such a character was trying to set Griffith up when she gave him the Behelit because she didn't seem like someone who would willingly hurt a child especially since Griffith surmised that the Behelit was for his protection, not his ultimate demise. Think really about what you're saying. Causality and the Behelit protected Griffith, and yet humanity is evil even though humanity is the force propelling those things? The only time Griffith even parted from the Behelit was because of his own decision to rape the princess. He was the force behind his downfall despite his efforts to blame Guts.
>>283496363Okay, fair point. Griffith might have groomed a 12-16 year old princess so that he could marry her and become the next King or something. There is no evidence he did it for sex, though, and by the time they had sex she was legal age in the United States and wanted it despite saying no at first. You can't really blame him for talking to a woman before she hits 18 if he isn't initiating any of the sexy talk himself. Griffith prefers to talk about other men.
>did nothing wrong>is named griftithi'll never understand this meme
>>283496490Griffith is not really selfish and his dream isn't really selfish either. That's like calling any wartime leader selfish. It might seem selfish to the establishment, but he wanted to build something great. His men wanted it too. The Godhand groomed him by convincing him that his men would forgive him for giving their lives for this cause. This was necessary precisely because Griffith wasn't selfish. The Godhand had to appeal to his selflessness, which compelled him to attempt suicide earlier, to convince him that his men would forgive him, and that a couple more bodies would be just a drop in the bucket compared to what he is already guilty for. Given his mental and physical state, it's irresponsible try to hold him accountable for what happened when they conspired to make him what he is from the start. I can understand someone disagreeing with his decision, especially since they will never have to be in the same position, and never can be. It is just difficult to call it "evil." That suggests an inhumane level of deviance, but I bet a lot of people would make the same decision as him if they were in the same position. Especially the people in universe.
>>283496530She was 18, not a minor. It was not rape, and she liked it. I am using modern standards because the author is clearly appealing to a subset of them. Griffith is humanized and given every grace, while non-Band of the Hawk characters are assumed to be driven by corruption, greed, lust or otherwise. Guts likes Griffith. Casca likes Griffith. Charlotte likes Griffith. The King likes Griffith when he wins battles for his army. The only people who don't like Griffith are the people whose status is threatened by his strong and virtuous rule of the Band of the Hawk. The only reason they are threatened by this is because their society appears to operate on meritocracy, but when it comes down to it, they are not willing to let go of their influence peacefully. So, Griffith defends himself. The author clearly intends for the reader to like Griffith.About the human thing; the actions of a human are decided based on multiple competing motivations. The difference between a good person and a bad person is not that a good person doesn't have bad feelings, its that the sum of the competing motivational forces is positive instead of negative. It is plausible that the eclipse robbed him of his human capacity for positive motivational forces to outweigh the negative ones. Since everyone has negative motivational forces, except some genetic freaks maybe, everyone is susceptible to the same thing. In the absence of these positive motivational forces, the negative ones have full control.If Griffith were just suppressing these positive forces with the mental gymnastics the Godhand coached him on, a real human would occasionally reconsider whether it was the right choice. Griffith never ever does this. It is not because he is "evil" after being the coolest guy in the kingdom for years before. It is because he voluntarily parted with this aspect of his humanity. It is important that the ritual took it, because if it didn't, he would surely show some sign of consideration.
>>283483582Guts really is just like me, fr fr
>>283496586He had to become successful so that his dream could be within reach, and so he had access to the princess, which led to his torture, attempted suicide, rediscovering the behelit and sacrifice for the dream he almost had, but was shattered when Guts left after overhearing his private conversation, which Griffith probably didn't notice. Everything happened because the world wanted it to happen. Zodd and Wyald felt what was coming. Realistically, the behelit stopping an arrow could be a coincidence, but it was clearly foreshadowing by Miura. The Eclipse is stated to happen every 1000 years or something. I somehow doubt that the Godhand would have just left and searched for a new guy if Griffith said no. I can't really answer your question completely, because the answer might depend on information that will never exist after Miura's death, but these are the facts.
>>283497479>She was 18, not a minor.She turned 16 when he groomed her and was 17 when he raped her, that is a minor. Nowhere does it state she's 18 anywhere in the story. I just said I assumed she's 18 by the time they save Griffith since a year passed, but she could have still been 17 if it was a little under a year. How are you this bad with the timeline?
>>283497479>>283497700
>>283496718By humanity I mean the unconscious resentful will of all of humanity that makes up the Idea of Evil in that one chapter. Not sure what you mean about the lady. People are just acting like people. There is just an extra external force, from the idea of Evil, or Godhand, or Apostles that is conspiring to make Griffith the next member of the Godhand. All that means is that Femto was destined to happen, and you can't really judge Griffith based on a free will argument that he should have just said "no."
>>283497712Your might be right. I hate Griffith now.
>>283497902I didn't expect age to matter to you since you said you'd be fine with it even if Griffith was grooming/raping a 12 year old. Creep. And yet you shamelessly refer to a grown man being offered a deal with the devil as being "groomed" and "unable to consent" because he wanted his friends dead and to rape his lieutenant out of a petty grudge.
>>283498266It wasn’t a petty grudge it was heartbreak and jealousy. He was in love with guts.
>>283498492And?
>>283498492someone should edit that book to show a bunch of yaoi instead
>>283486374he sealed the deal with the princesshow was he supposed to know the king was an incestous pedo?
Behold. The true premise of Berserk.
>>283498762The proper term isn't pedophile, it's "child sex offender" since the crime isn't in being attracted to children but acting upon it and Griffith fits the definition better than the King does since he's the one who groomed her for sex over the years and attempted to speedrun it when he thought he was losing that opportunity.
>>283498800>the proper term isn't pedophile, it's "child sex offender"I bet you have to explain this a lot.
>>283498837No, just clarifying terms. You're the one who said you would have still said Griffith did nothing wrong if he began grooming her at 12. That is truly vile.
>>283498800Oh look a pedophile
>>283498783>gay batman outfit>heterosexualpretty sure looking at guts the entire time didnt help either
>>283498877I'm not, but besides that, you could think about brutally murdering someone and still not be guilty of anything. What matters is what you choose to do with your thoughts.
>>283498762He got the timing wrong
>>283483061He's one of the best, very high on my list.
That's groomf tho
This manga is too fucking long.
>>283483061Mozgus did nothing wrong
>>283499760Ha
>>283483061Never understood why anyone would push this meme, I personally can't enjoy a character if I think they have no flaws.
>>283483061He should have kissed Guts and get over it.
>>283493229>What's the endgame of being an apostle?>>283494398The Godhand don't tell them that their sacrifice will suffer in the Vortex for all time or that they will when they die, they only did that with the Count because he sacrificed before so he was already doomed either way.Based off Zodd, you can't die of old age as an apostle, so they only way to get killed is by another apostle, because no human could possibly kill an apostle until Guts shows up or they are wearing Berserker arnor
>>283500611His only flaw was he didn't rape guts as well during the eclipse as a show of his ownership over him
>>283500611It's a joke. No one actually believes he did nothing wrong, instead everyone thinks he is a terrible monster. The joke is how insane the statement is.
>>283503785He quite literally, unironically, deadass didn't do anything wrong though...
>>283503812Anon said the funny line!
>>283495994Griffith won, Guts is essentially the villain. Destroying a "peaceful" kingdom for revenge
>>283503883>reddit tier cuck can't admit that griffith chasing his dreams being an absolute sigma gigachad is based
>>283483061Remember when Griffith said "The Merge is on" and then reality collapsed?
>>283492291Isn't that just Farnese? Except she's a loser
>>283503883>imagine being content being Casca’s backup living a mediocre life a shadow of your ambitions with a child named after the BVLL guts
Cruel fate how late Morda is introduced and so shortly before Miura died too.
