Nen is legitimately the most retarded and confusing power system of all time. The series sat down Gon and Killua to explain nen to them and there's still so many questions.Can you remove a restriction? How do you create a restriction? How do you enforce it (example, the chains that only work on phantom troupe members, do they work on ex members, if they change the name of the troupe will it still work, if someone lies and says they are a member of the troupe can he use the chains without it killing him, if someone is wrapped in the chain and they say "I renounce my membership of the troupe"Can will it still work?) Can you change restrictions in small ways to fit the situation? Can you transfer it? Can you have multiple restrictions? If you do have multiple restrictions, can you make a restriction that cancels out another restriction? He says that he will use all the nen he will ever have does that mean all the nen that he has in him right now? Does that factor in any future training that he may do? There are too many questions about restrictions.
>>283485177>There are too many questions about restrictionsThe characters themselves don't have the answer to all of these questions because Nen is highly individualized. Kurapika has no way to know the answers to all of those questions and doesn't have a safe way to find out, which is why he has to be careful about using his chains. So for example,>if someone is wrapped in the chain and they say "I renounce my membership of the troupe"Would you want to be in Kurapika's shows and test it to find out? If the troupe member truly renounced membership and Kurapika perceived it as such, then his Chain Jail should no longer apply, but it's risky either way.>Can you remove a restriction? Removing a restriction weakens the nen, but you can rework an ability to a degree. Taking on a restriction is a matter of strengthening one's convictions. You create restrictions by sculpting the ability within yourself. There is no set mechanism for it. Reworking restrictions is theoretically possible, but it would require a profound change within the user.>Can you change restrictions in small ways to fit the situation?You can't really rework them on the fly. Reworking a restriction would mean that your conviction is weak and easily influenced, which will likely result in a weaker nen ability. Heavier restrictions mean heavier convictions resulting in stronger abilities. Making your ability convoluted and harder to utilize makes it significantly more powerful in the situations where it can be used. >How do you enforce it Restrictions are enforced on a psychospiritual level. They are arbitrated by the nen itself. The user can be tricked, but the nen manages itself since you're effectively creating a rule when you create a nen ability. Some restrictions work more on the psychological perception axis, meaning that the user must simply and truly believe the condition is fulfilled. Some are contingent on objective reality.
>>283485743What enforces all this? The show implies there's some esoteric nen god or aura that applies this based on the individual but they never explain it. Togashi hasn't been super clear with how Nen abilities work, he's just said more than other authors. Outside of one comment in Yorknew, most fans were under the impression that, as far as the Nen system is concerned, all abilities are "equal." The entire point of there being conditions and restrictions and vows and stuff is that an ability can be "too strong" and thus need something to balance it all. However, now Chrollo's talking about some abilities simply being more or less powerful in construction. How? The entire point of restrictions, etc., is to counteract that being a thing. The variable that's always changed isn't the ability's level, but the character's. So for example, when Meruem gained Youpi's ability, Youpi was blown away by how much stronger it was than what he could do. That's not the ability being strong, that's Meruem being strong. But now, there are strong and weak abilities? Why would someone make a weak ability?When I was a teenager, I'd hand wave complaints like this by explaining that it had something to do with Nen cost, but that was just my head canon. I honestly don't know the answer.
>>283485177Nen is retarded because a lot of the characters who actually matter are specialists anyway, which is shorthand for "whatever the fuck goes"
>>283485848>Outside of one comment in Yorknew, most fans were under the impression that, as far as the Nen system is concerned, all abilities are "equal."I'm not sure what this even means and I've never heard some one say this until just now. Bungee Gum was always a far stronger ability than anything the cripples at Heaven's Arena had. Hatsu have literally never been equal.
>>283486313You didn't counter literally anything I said.
>>283486461I'm not the same anon. Your statement didn't make any sense to me, so I was curious what you were actually trying to say.
>>283485848>Why would someone make a weak ability?By being unimaginative or subconsciously restricting themselves. Nen abilities can be weak because the user just made a bad ability. Not everyone will be smart enough to actually utilize their potential in useful ways to the maximum of their ability.Someone could come up with the hypothetical nen ability of being able to punch hard enough to break concrete. Internally, their point of comparison was being able to break concrete. There isn't much restriction there, but from the outside they limited their capability to being able to bust up a material you could feasibly break with a hammer. That limits their ability to roughly the strength of a hammer unless they improve the ability over time. It's a weak nen ability regardless of restrictions or lack thereof.>What enforces all thisThere's no nen god as far as we know. Nen is a power inherent to those with the potential for it, and it's largely self-enforcing. Nen is a mystical force, but it is affected by the conviction and psychology of the user. You can't create an ability or form restrictions for something you don't truly believe in and have the will to use, so restrictions are baked into the user's own mentality.>I honestly don't know the answerThe absence of currently stated answers doesn't mean there are none. There's no reason to 100% explore the exact limitations of a concept before a story comes to a close when they aren't necessarily relevant. It's not hand-waving, it's focusing on what's important over the trite mechanical aspects. >>283486461NTA, but what is there to counter? You're grasping at uncertainties and fretting over specifics that are not presently relevant. Do you think this is an argument? That's not what I came here for. Obsessing over these mundane questions just because they haven't been addressed yet is more like the concerns of a teen or an autist than anything.
>>283485848I'm not sure, but I think nen is based on your will. It functions subconsciously and shapes the way the nen manifests and the potency of the output. As that seems to be the case, Kurapika's chains MAY cease to work on someone who sincerely renounces the troupe (since it's related to their will and therefore their sincerity matters).
>>283486581So with the proper restrictions you could have literally any ability correct?Kills sister can grant any wish with not negatives to her. She has a restriction, but negates that restriction for Kill. So she can just decide to negate it?So why is the restriction there in the first place if it can be negated at will?So with this ability that we know nothing about the main characters life was saved. Is that good story telling?If it wasn't for Nanako and he mystery power, he would have died without living his dream. Again is that good story telling? Doesn't matter if he is a main character or the main. He survived and we don't have all of the details behind it. Is it good story telling?So the details of how a character has a restriction that can be deactivated at will that saved a main characters life will be explained at some point. Excuse me if I don't hold my breath.
>>283485848From my understanding, your hatsu is a function of:1 - Your creativity (how "good" it is in the sense of how creative you are with coming up with something useful and any associated conditions and restrictions)2 - your ability to successfully employ the hatsu (skill in usage)3 - your natural talent and nen output and reserves (It seems to me some people are just genetically more talented or possess more nen or ability to output or control it as nen manipulation in a broader sense is a skill)
>>283486650Alluka is from the Dark Continent, so we have no idea how the wish granting actually works. It might not even be through nen at all.
>>283485177I'm tired of people pretending it's some perfect genius invention, it's bullshit that does whatever the author feels like with rules that only exist to be broken when the plot demands and replaced with rules that justify the new application
What I don't get is why (diegetically) people only have like one hatsu. Why does Killua not have flame aura and a water aura and a whatever the fuck aura? Why don't all transmuters? Why don't people steal each other's techniques all the time? I get conditions won't apply cuz they're often personal, but some do and even then not even technique has a condition anywaysLike why does Chrollo steal a technique? How does that work? Couldn't he just learn it? Couldn't the victim just learn it again?
>>283486758Because nen is bullshit That's itThat's the only reason
>>283486758I'm pretty sure they cover that exact thing at some point in the manga, it might be Wing covering abilities. When Kastro dies maybe?Nen abilities are reflections of your personality so stealing a technique that doesn't "suit" you intrinsically makes the ability less effective>But Ging and Chrollo can copy techniques!Chrollo's technique stealing is presumably birthed from his identity as a thief and Ging's comes from his inherent talent.Nen as a power system isn't intended to be concrete and well defined, it's to provide a framework for supernatural abilities to be justified in. Scrutinizing it is pointless because ultimately it does what Togashi wants before anything else
Any bullshit system can be a superior storydriven device, it's ALL in the presentation.If someone overpowers someone else out of the blue and it feels unsatisfactory then it's just shit regardless how solid it's made.
Im not reading all this anon....
>>283486758>Why does Killua not have flame aura and a water aura and a whatever the fuck aura?It's a mentality thing. You could create dozens of different abilities but you probably wouldn't care much about them individually, so they'd probably be half-ass and would suffer for it.>Why don't people steal each other's techniques all the time?They do. Kurapika said ability lending abilities were an archetype. I think there's like 7 characters who can steal or borrow abilities.Keep in mind there's a difference between using Hatsu and having a signature ability.
>>283485177>some people get strong by placing restrictions on their nen to reach a high level>some people just have nen that strong and don't even need restrictionsIt must suck being the guy who gets beaten by a natural non restricted talent when you have to put your life on the line just to use your nen
>>283487210>>283487009I know depending on your natural nen type you have more or less afinity towards certain techniques, but if you're a transmuter then there is no reason I can see why you couldn't just learn to transmute your aura into everything possible at a basic level
>>283488354The only actual explanation from the manga is the time it would take to do so.The actual explanation is most likely to be that the author doesn't want to have to think of 10 abilities for every character, when coming up with one or two is probably already a pain in the ass.You can headcanon in other explanations that can even sound quite good or plausible, but it has never been addressed in the manga and most likely never will be.
>>283486752Bu-but it sounds complicated!
>>283487210>>283488534>>283485743>>283486581>>283486751Literally none of the responses in this thread are bringing up actual manga pages, and no actual explanations that are in the universe. Togashi only reveals what he wants to about nen so the plot can work. He'll never reveal anything that can put him in a bad position. It's such a shitty power system.
>>283487039Then don't comment, retard.
>>283486752How nen works:1. Togashi writes a bunch of rules for how nen works.2. Then Togashi writes whatever sort of story he feels like at the time.3. ????4. Hiatus.
>>283485177How do you know it’s retarded if you don’t understand it? Perhaps it’s you who was retarded all along.
>>283489170They literally sat down Gon and Killua multiple times to explain nen and it's still this confusing.
>>283489235>they
>all these walls of textI guess HxH knows its audience after all.
>>283486702>From my understandingStop. This is headcanon. Give me something that's in the actual series.
#filtered
>>283488635That's what makes it a good system. It introduces an in world reason why characters with busted abilities have some exploitable rule or weakness for the plot to interact with.The underlying mechanics don't matter if it doesn't tell a story. I don't need to understand the Lorentz transformation if I am walking to the grocery store.
Where's the tweet
>>283485177>How do you enforce it (example, the chains that only work on phantom troupeYou watch the show, he has a miniature judgment chain pointed at his own heart, that's how you enforce it.
Didn't this manga die when the author got bored and went on hiatus right before they were supposed to go to the super epic underworld Toriko continent?
>>283490929It's only been 329 days in hiatus.
>>283490170this is in the series, it's a mix of explicitly and implicitly given information
>>283491039KekHow thrilling
