You gonna make an argument?

>>284819836
>the death of their mother doesn't hold any kind of emotional weight
>episodes are just scooby doo where they find one deranged alchemist after another
>the said episodes are just filler with your typical animebaits
>they dont bother to contact their father's penpals...would really help you know
>Mustang just happens to be around when they perform transumation but isnt really bothered by it
>he just says, "lol good job guys, call me"
>first 20 pages of manga are 2 full episodes
>Ed drawing transmute circles in 2 second instead of using his hands
>they don't even bother to explain any of the transmutations, it's just magic with no logic, brotherhood/manga usually at least tried to explain them and follow it's own rules

I'm sure it's about to get much worse but here are couple of things that come to mind. Any reason why you guys like this garbage so much over Brotherhood?

>>284819729
Bro the beginning is the part that's supposed to be better than Brotherhood. You've no idea how retarded it gets once it enters anime original territory.

>>284820030
for some reason they want to add drama and "plot" where there isn't really a need to and take it out of something that would really need it. It's like they just decided that "nah we can do better" without even understanding the whole picture

>>284820077
It gets retarded right off the bat since it inserts filler into even the first arc. The only part it does better is the opening sequence where they do the transmutation. The directing is incredible on that scene. Basically 3 minutes where it's better and then the rest of the show is much worse.

>>284820077
what part exactly? Even Brotherhood had just one episode of "doing their own thing" and the it carried on with the original plot. These 4 episodes have been terrible.

>>284820140
How? We never see Ed doing the blood seal on the armor (prob cause there wasn't one still shown in the manga) and that's basically it. the sequence isn't even that long. oh yeah and then we see the failed "mother" but I'm not sure if it redeems anything about the sequence...?

>>284819729
>the insane hook of showing what happened is worse than the ice alchemist who is not even part of the story
>not liking the 2003 version of Leore
>not liking the OP, even though it's not as good as Again
Have you read the manga? You should watch this up to the point it switches over to non-manga material. Regarding how you feel about its quality, I think it's a respectable work even if you don't really jive with it. This idea of alchemy is very unique, Ed and Al are an awesome duo, the Homunculi are such a cool concept, none of the major characters are annoying... What I'm getting at is that the manga is a solid, very well-researched story and both adaptations have undeniable strong points, even though they both have flaws. The flaws that all three versions have are not enough to make them bad pieces of fiction by any measure. They're easily all above-average at worst.

>>284820280
the Leore chapter was so much worse. How about that this nigga can animate statues like they're alive even tho no alchemist can do that? Yup, gottem. The whole thing drags on way too long and goes action forward instead of the characters. The chimera bird was...weird.

The ice alchemist part doesn't even matter in the context since they show us anyway what happened and the whole Ice alchemist thing is dismissed in like one episode.

I mean I get it that people would say that it's good in 2005, but after Brotherhood this is just embarrassing.

>>284820030
So brotherhood is better for skipping the beginning of the manga?

>>284819729
Brotherhood and the manga are also both shit but /a/ isn't ready for that conversation.

>>284819729
dumb zoomer

>>284820449
no I'm saying that everything that the first series is trying to do is a failure. Brotherhood can stand on it's own legs even tho skipping the mine town was weird.

>>284820463
I would honestly have that conversation and hear the reasoning behind it instead of some fag trying to convince me that the first FMA is better when it obviously isn't and it shows.
>>284820500
so did you hate Brotherhood cause it was popular back in the days and now you hate it cause zoomers dont like your shit series? What is the trendy anime that you hate now?

>>284820463
I'd likewise be happy to talk about that as long as it's not yet another attempt at convincing me the 03 anime was better
I'd disagree, but I'd be happy to talk about it

>>284820463
>>284820982
let's do this

>>284820736
Sure, why not.
- Equivalent Exchange set up as a really interesting magic system but 90% of it consists of launching rocks and Ed's sword extracted from his fragile mechanical arm. His whole thing is that he can do alchemy on the fly but he rarely uses this to actually solve problems, his encounter with Greed being a particular offender
- Rugpull storytelling. Hughes has no personality traits aside from how much it'd suck if he died, his family are non-characters who don't contribute to the plot again and the only depth he gets is only there to artificially raise the stakes of his obvious impending death and introduced just before precisely that happens. He only exists so Mustang has a motivation and nothing else. Shou Tucker is set up as an interesting character driven to extremes out of desperation but there's no hints of him being capable of anything like what he ends up doing because his daughter is eternally cheerful, again in a shitty attempt to make the reader feel really sad when she's turned into a dog. And then when he's confronted by Ed his personality turns into that of a cartoon psychopath for no reason and even throws in the hackiest of lines with his 'we're not so different' spiel. And to top it all off Mustang has to deliver his 'heh, this is just how fucked up this world really is, kid... You'll encounter lots more like him...' only for that to never happen since the only characters as evil are not human, plus Kimblee who is just a full-blown cartoon sociopath again. Really stellar stuff. There's a lot more of this, like Barry almost making Al question his humanity (which is stupid in the first place since Al is buying this from a proud serial killer who is currently attempting to murder him but whatever) only for that plot thread to be dropped immediately after when Al asks Ed a question on the train and is reassured by Ed's answer and it never comes up again. I could go on but at least half of all plot points are like this, it's awful.

>>284821150
- Really pointless attempts at being edgy. Shou Tucker is one, but another egregious one is the reveal that Bradley was only trembling during Hughes' funeral because he had to restrain himself from killing Hughes' crying child. Oh nooo, this literal inhuman monster whose mask didn't slip so much as he barely wore it in the first place wanted to kill a child??? Well, the more I hear about this 'führer' guy the less I like him! This also feeds into the tone problem the story has, where it can't decide between being cartoonishly edgy, standard over-the-top shonen faire or a semi-serious story about the systems we bind ourselves to or whatever this mess was attempting to coalesce into by the end. And while I have to admit I do like Armstrong it's also undeniable that he sticks out like a sore thumb every time he appears, and usually not in a good way.
- Waaaay too many characters for a story that isn't even really interested in developing its core cast all that much. Seriously, Hughes gets sacrificed so that Mustang has a point in the story, but so many irrelevant literal whos not only get to live but also get inordinate amounts of screentime. It is really frustrating when you just get through this half-baked emotional nadir arc for Ed only for these three ninjas to show up and clown on him and oh my god I do not care, please let these characters contribute or fuck off from the story.

And that's about the gist of it, I could list some more examples but those are the big issues. Criminally underutilized magic system, abject refusal to actually develop the vast majority of its cast, deep overreliance on shock value, overall weak to nonsensical plotting and a large cast that due to all the aforementioned points the story is woefully underequipped to support.

>>284821150
I get the rock flinging argument but there are several points in the story where Ed uses alchemy to solve problems, like getting a wire to trap Gluttony or understanding alchemy to get them out of the fake portal. He uses it to heal himself or turn coal into gold, even tho that was in the manga. I think that the alchemy in the series works as an action set piece and as a major plot point. I mean...what would you like Ed to do with it?

About Hughes: sure I can buy that argument since we don't really see Mustang and him in the war that much. I think that the depth there is to the character is in the conversations with Winry. But sure, maybe killed way too early.

>there's no hints of him being capable of anything like what he ends up doing because his daughter is eternally cheerful,

I think that the whole point of it all was that Tucker isn't really that much of good alchemist. Just good at making chimeras. This provides him with cash and better lifestyle. If I would have that 'we're not so different' -line anywhere, I would have that there cause Tucker thinks that he can do whatever he wants just because he can. I don't understand the argument about the evil characters not being human so you have to expand on that.

In the context on anime these things are not so relevant but in the context of storytelling they are. Still I wouldn't judge the series by these plot points.

>>284821528
Good read. While I get those points they are not that major really. You do get that even with all that it's still better than at least 90% of all anime?

>>284821528
I think that Bradley just said that the girl crying was annoying and he was just faking it but I would double check this since I might confuse the manga and the series.

>where it can't decide between being cartoonishly edgy, standard over-the-top shonen faire or a semi-serious story about the systems we bind ourselves to

I mean, it's shonen. You have to remember that, it isn't really anything more than just good developed shonen. I would have this any day instead of SAO or DS.

>Waaaay too many characters

Have to majorly disagree, the show has way less characters or almost equal amount than any shonen and it manages to tie them together most of the time if we don't count the automail-leg girl and Rose but both of them still come back later on and it's all good. In the end:

>chimeras team up with Al to seek their original bodies
>Marcoh gets his redemption arc
>Scar manages to deal with his hate and lead his people to better tomorow
>Mustang becoming the leader of a country but paying the price for it
>Mei...okay maybe not Mei but she gets eventually what she wants

There are several other examples but you get it.

>but so many irrelevant literal whos not only get to live but also get inordinate amounts of screentime.

Again I can agree that Hughes was killed way too early in the script but his death also in a way carries in trough since the brothers don't want anyone to dies because of them.

Have you read the manga?

>>284821668
I mean I guess this is the point really, even with it's flaws, it manages to be better than most of the shonens.

But these are still good points and one of the better conversations in /a/

>>284821638
>What would you like Ed to do with it?
Not use the arm sword, for one. I don't really care about real-world pracricality for anime weapons, but when his arm is an in-universe vulnerability it does get frustrating. He created a massive spear during his state alchemist induction interview, that kind of thing. He can do alchemy on the fly, even if he's a kid who's not at the skill level of older alchemists that alone should be what allows him to keep up, but most uses seem to be situational, like when he neutralized Greed's armor. It comes across as unimaginative and lazy.
>I think the depth to the character is in the conversations with Winry
To clarify, I don't care that much about how much depth his character does or doesn't get, I care that he's sacrificed to motivate Mustang. His family are non-characters who don't even tie into Mustang's revenge quest and are, like Hughes himself, only around in the first place to forcibly squeeze emotions out of the audience without earning them. Postmortem character development when his death is this callously written is mustard after the meal.
>I don't understand the argument about the evil characters not being human
They're all Homunculi is basically what I mean, plus Father. Kimblee is the only human who even approaches Shou Tucker's level of evil and he's a cartoon sociopath. So with that in mind Mustang's warning to Ed rings really hollow, because no, he doesn't really encounter humans that bad ever again. So I can only conclude that it's just a hack line that sounded edgy and cool at the time, because nothing comes of it.
>>284821906
>I mean, it's shonen
And most do not have this problem. Naruto manages its tone far better and Kishimoto's writing on the micro level is abysmal. I find this really hard to excuse in combination with a lot of the really hacky and limp character writing, because it leaves me as a reader with next to nothing consistent to hold on to to keep me engaged.

>>284820463
This

>>284821906
>The show has way less characters or almost equal amount than any shonen
Just going over the numbers that may be true, but other shonen are better at keeping the focus where it should be and mostly setting time aside for the non-core cast when it has breathing room to do so. FMA meanwhile struggles with giving even Ed and Al consistent character conflicts, like the example I gave with Al questioning his humanity that's introduced messily and is then immediately dropped anyway. When it starts devoting time to more characters I can't even trust the story to treat honestly anymore after how dirty it did Hughes, you can understand why I struggle to get invested, right?

>>284821668
>>284821953
>it's still better than at least 90% of all anime
It really isn't. It's just that a bunch of pretentious and vocal retards keep treating it like a masterpiece when it's a generic as fuck shonen with some of the most basic tropes out there.

>>284822266
>like when he neutralized Greed's armor.

I think that's one of the better points Ed using alchemy. Think there are much more several uses but I would agree more if you would say that he just conjures shit out of nowhere, not solving alchemical problems like disabling the armor.

>I care that he's sacrificed to motivate Mustang
agree

>combination with a lot of the really hacky and limp character writing, because it leaves me as a reader with next to nothing consistent to hold on to to keep me engaged.

sorry, can't agree cause I gave you several points where this isn't really the case. here:

>>284821906

What I'm really saying is that the series introduces several characters that mostly all of the serve the plot somehow. I don't think that all of the side characters need to be fleshed out that much as long as the series keeps it's focus on the main characters.

>>284822407
Yes I get why you would struggle to get invested. I guess I'm not that bothered by it since the main is tied together pretty good in the end. But yeah I remember wondering that humanity questioning-plotline even as a teenager and why it was dropped. Maybe Arakawa meant to say that it's hard to believe in yourself cause you body isn't your own, you can't even sleep so you would be driven mad quite quickly.

>>284822417
you just described most of the shonen out there. sorry. even a pile of garbage has it's high point and one's garbage is another one's treasure.

>>284822800
More like all manga out there. The medium isn't exactly known for being high literature, perhaps because the artist is usually also in charge of the writing and it's quite difficult to be great at both at the same time.

>>284819729
>Was I memed again or do you guys really have such shit taste?
It's not even a meme, you just took a schizo's repeated ranting and spamming as actual opinions. Lurk the fuck more.

>>284819729
you got joked on

>>284819729
This piece of shit was the reason it took me so long for me to start Brotherhood.
I assumed Brotherhood was a sequel but once i found out it was a remake I was quick to check it out. Brotherhood is a million times better than 2003 shit

I find adaptations that had to come up with their own ideas because the source material was still lacking, to be really fascinating.

>>284819729
you got one guy'd by the resident schizo anon