>been giving a try to pre-2000's anime every once in a while for years>most experiences being mediocre or negative>even in the ones that are good, I can feel that there's a "difference" between older and newer anime>try it with manga>feel zero difference in my experience of reading old manga and new manga?Why is that? Why is there only a difference in anime, but not in manga?I just read 1-Pound no Fukuin and the two versions of Hi no Tori (1956 and 1967). If you told me those were from the last ten years, I would've believed in you.
There's less technical difference between a modern manga and a decades old one. With anime you have the difference between cel and digital as well as the difference in animation competency between the average TV anime of the 70s, 80s, and 90s (each of which differed between each other too) but with manga it's all similar drawings on a page. Sure, the art styles differ, but they do today as well.
>>284821296>If you told me those were from the last ten years, I would've believed in you.really?
>>284821296>If you told me those were from the last ten years, I would've believed in you.lmao then I have a bridge to sell you
>>284821370It would be one thing if we all agreed that animation quality grew linearly, but the consensus is that animation quality was at it's peak during the 80's (Though I guess I don't care about that aspect that much?).I might be a bit of a plotfag, though: I liked Macross, but absolutely hated Zeta Gundam.>>284821394Well, I do logically know they're older due to their artstyles (Which aren't bad, BTW), but other than that, there's nothing in them I would describe as "dated">>284821466Go on
>>284821296Read eko eko azarak and the 2020 remake and say that again.
>>284821540Granted, I'll admit I haven't read that much manga, but my point is that it seemed pretty "ripe" as a medium even in the 60's.Meanwhile, my mental image of older anime is of even short OVAs of which the spectacle is the appeal, or long (50 episodes or more) anime which is either badly paces, full of filler, or way too episodic.
>>284821296>If you told me those were from the last ten years, I would've believed in you.Why the fuck are you lying?
>>284823666Anon, I'm not that retarded, I know that no modern manga has that artstyle.I'm talking about the general experience: My experience with it didn't differ from my experience with modern manga.Reading one didn't feel any different from reading the other (Which isn't the case with anime).So if someone told me "Oh, that's because they're from this decade, but were drawn to be seem older", I would've believed that.
>>284821679>short OVAs of which the spectacle is the appeal, or long (50 episodes or more) anime which is either badly paces, full of filler, or way too episodic.old anime had plenty of seasonals
>>284823760Give me a few examples for me to understand your point.
>>284823741no one knows what you mean by 'experience', you have to explain yourself more.
>>284823802I don't think I can be any more explicit:Watching a post-2000's anime simply feels completely different from watching, say, an 80's one.IDK if it's the artstyles, or the pacing, or the directing, but it's noticeable.With manga, however, an older manga doesn't feel "out of place" nowadays.
>>284823741It's not just artstyle but paneling, pacing, and toneI read someone write about it better detail a while backhttps://desuarchive.org/co/thread/97561495/#97562002I think it's especially apparent while reading phoenixThough same for one pound gospel, not even Rumiko still exactly the same way she wrote in the 80s
>>284823802I get what anon means. manga is paper. It doesn't age ig. I'm not aware of paneling art changing.
i kind of get it. that discrepancies in the the foundation of sequential art hasn't changed much. ever read an American comic strip from over a century ago? here's one from 1905, it's literally crusty and yellow and the speech bubbles look like shit, it was obviously still trying to figure out the medium. When you read an old Tezuka or Ishinomori, they're already building off several decades worth of the medium being refined, experimenting from that point on
>>284821296>most experiences being mediocre or negativeWhat post-2000's and pre-2000's shows have you liked?
>>284824349That post argues how DIFFERENT older comics felt, so the opposite of my point, though.
>>284824841In the middle of a tournament rn, I'll answer you ASAP
>>284824946Uh yeahI wasn't agreeing with you, they are different
>>284824841>pre-2000'sMacross, Black Magic M-66, Otaku no Video, Shin Cutie Honey, Evangelion, 08th MS Team, Shamanic Princess, Galaxy Fraulein Yuna Returns, Perfect Blue, Devilman Lady, Risky Safety.>post-2000'sWay too many to mention, but to mention a few of my favorites:Code Geass, Higurashi Kai, TTGL, Kill la Kill, Selector Infected WIXOSS, Maid Dragon, MahoAko, Re: Cutie Honey, Boogiepop Phantom, Haibane Renmei, Alien 9, Bokurano, Shigofumi, Kaiba, Galko-chan, Made in Abyss, Mahoujin Furuguru (2017), Killing Bites, HisoMaso, Gleipnir, Mushoku Tensei, Heion Sedai no Idaten-tachi, 16bit Sensation, Medalist, Clevatess, Emma, Princess Tutu, Jin-Roh, Symphogear G, Rozen Maiden, Honzuki no Gekokujou, Girls Band Cry, Malice@Doll, Nanoha, , etc
>>284825138Oh, OK, then.
>>284821296>>been giving a try to pre-2000's anime every once in a while for years>>most experiences being mediocre or negativeYou're retarded
>>284823799>Stealth rec threadI've been watching Banner of the Stars, it effortlessly grabs my attention with little in the way of showy animation.The apex of tv anime for me though was after 95 and up until the early 00s, the 80s have a lot of peak unsurpassed works, but the volume of flawed but otherwise perfect stuff from the 90s makes me appreciate some niches better.
>>284825393Would it be safe to assume you're in this largely for hot anime girls? If so, have you tried Saber Marionette J, Tenchi, Dual!!, Aika, Sukeban Deka, Tetsuwan Birdy, Those Who Hunt Elves, Burn Up W, Cowboy Bebop or Nadesico?
>>284826854>Would it be safe to assume you're in this largely for hot anime girls?No idea, unless I'm doing it subconsciously.>If so, have you tried Saber Marionette J, Tenchi, Dual!!, Aika, Sukeban Deka, Tetsuwan Birdy, Those Who Hunt Elves, Burn Up W, Cowboy Bebop or Nadesico?I'm aware of all of them, though I've only watched Bebop around 2018... and didn't like it very much. (Feels like "A sequel to an anime that doesn't exist", failed to make me care about it's characters, way too episodic, no character progression, no epilogue, etc. I did like "Pierrot le Fou", though)
>>284826894>No idea, unless I'm doing it subconsciously.The vast majority of the anime you listed are predicated on the sex appeal and/or cuteness of the female leads. Nothing necessarily wrong with that, but you have to be sleep walking through everything to not notice a pattern in your own viewing habits.
>>284826894I don't even know what to tell you then, describe what you think it's different in quality between eras. I know there are differences, but what are the ones you perceive in particular?
>>284827112Well, I just finished watching the first episode of the original Uchuu Senkan Yamato.Things that caught my attention were the slow pacing (Everything could've been done in half the time), the amount of silence (Scenes with no OST playing) and the amount of exposition.Let me grab some examples from older anime I've watched:>Cutie HoneyMost episodes lack a story, enemies of the week have no real motivation or personality (Perhaps could be solved if episodes were ordinary length). The one episode which doesn't do that is the Mermaid one, which might be my favorite. It also lacks an overarching story.>Zeta GundamPlot mostly seems to happen off-screen, while what we see are sponsor-mandated battles with no personal stakes between neither character. Moustache-twirling villains with mostly no interesting motivations. Every character (Especially female ones) seems to be retarded.>Turn A GundamNot as bad as Zeta, but mostly episodes of pointless sponsor-mandates fights with no stakes in green prairies. Initial conflcit gets solved off-screen after the series ends. Has a couple good episodes, such as the cow one, the washing machine one, the mauipichi arc, etc>AKIRA80% of the movie is build-up... then it just ends.>Five Star StoriesNot much happens in it>Key the Metal IdolExhausts it's premise 4 episodes in, spends the rest doing absolutely nothing, then infodumps in it's final two.>Neo RangaSpends most of it's episodes doing nothingAs for a ton of OVAs I didn't mention, IDK how to put it into words, they just seemed a bit boring and not very interesting (e.g. Dream Hunter Rem, Zeiram the Animation, etc)
>>284827452>Neo Ranga>Spends most of it's episodes doing nothingiirc it was mostly two episode mini-arcs where the first episode is a silly slice of life ep which quietly sets up a conflict or obstacle that comes to a head in the second episode. It's especially noticeable in the last like stretch of the series where the writers are twisting the proverbial knife incredibly hard every second episode. If that's nothing or if Akira's just build up, how do you survive watching so-called "modern" anme? It's not like there was a sudden drastic change in how things were written or directed after 2000.I'll give you the Tomino Gundams tho, dude's writing is rather unique, especially his earlier shows.
>>284827452>battles with no personal stakes between neither characterKek, that's kinda the point but sure. Idk that I can't attribute a lot of those criticisms to newer anime that you listed, but I think I get it.Your problem seems to be wanting things to resolve already, I may be missing nuance here, but it's weird that you'd dislike OVAs then, they're usually a closed arc resolved in up to a couple hours.
>>284827685I don't dislike OVAs, my issue is that there's not much one can due in just 1-episode OVAs.There were OVAs I liked, such as the aforementioned Otaku no Video, Shamanic Princess, 08th MS Team, Shin Cutie Honey, Yuna Returns, Black Magic, etcEven more if we count post-2000's OVAs: Re: Cutie Honey, Alien 9, Malice@Doll, Gundam Unicorn, etcI wouldn't say I want things to "resolve already", but rather I like things progressing, happening.For instance, I liked Macross. Things are always happening in Macross, the status quo always slightly changing.Due to my initial bad experience with Gundam, I thought that the entirety of Macross would be them coming back to earth with repeated episodic battles, but I couldn't be more wrong: What happens when they were near Pluto is different to what happens when they were on Mars, which is different to what happened when they were on Earth, which is different to what happened when they were stuck in the enemy ship. Things such as the spies also really shook things up.In that aspect, Macross seemed very "modern".>>284827662>how do you survive watching so-called "modern" anme? It's not like there was a sudden drastic change in how things were written or directed after 2000.Let's try this: Pic related was a lot of "anime I like" I made early this year (Nowadays I would add other anime to it, such as Medalist, Clevatess, etc). What pre-2000's anime "feel" like those?
>>284827949>In that aspect, Macross seemed very "modern".I see most of what you described in Gundam though, and in Layzner, and VOTOMs... more than, say, KLK.I don't think you described what you like enough for people to understand what you don't about anime, but maybe it's just me.
So you say OP but I think pre-Akira manga is actual garbage.
>>284828024Well, some aspects I notice in anime I like: >exploring of the characters mind, feelings, psyche, emotions, etc>a story whose scope expands over time, as well as it's complexity>anime that tries to be "absurd", "exaggerated", "maximalist"Some examples of that, let's take 16bit Sensation:I thought it would be a shitty CGDCT whose entire 12 episodes would just be the characters doing one single game, but it was much more than that. It involved or main character going back and forth in time between different ages, the differences in every age, the whole plot about bringind knowledge from the future to the past, the whole episode where the other characters travels to the past, meets aliens, and it's directed differently from the rest, etcKilling Bites has all it's self-aware exaggeration of a B-movie exploitation film with it's self-aware metal music, Discovery Channel segments with a wrestling narrator, well drawn bodies and ultra-violenceIDK how to explain with words why I like the ones in the first two columns, though. It's more about "feeling" them.
>>284828141Gundam Zeta does most of what you listed to some extent, as does Five Star Stories to a lesser extent. It's weir that you don't like episodic stuff from your description of 16bit sensation though.In Gundam Zeta the protag goes from rebellious young son of a scientist to terrorist and then freedom fighter in very few episodes. Sure, there's a stretch in the middle where alliances don't change all that much, but that's mostly due to building up Char's speech, Reccoa's betrayal, and Scirocco as a young polarizing figure growing in the Titan's shadow. Several characters are explored in depth, the story begins with a hunt for dissenting political speech and turns into a 3 faction brawl rife with betrayal and foreshadowing the return of Zeon, and it is absurd and exxaggerated as well as maximalist.I can understand Zeta's many flaws, but any of it fits your description of what you like about anime more than, say, Mushoku's Hogwarts arc. Also, most of the anime you listed flaws of were less sexual than the ones in the list of ones you liked, if you didn't notice.
>>284828272I mean, we could go with the Freudian explanation that it's all about sexualization, and my explanations are simply post-hoc rationalization of my feelings (Even though there are quite a few sexualized anime I didn't like, such as the original Cutie Honey).That 5x5 is somewhat organized by columns but what I noticed to be the "themes": 1 and 2 are about darker, more psychological works. 3 is moe, 4 is Gainax + MT, 5 is... well, I don't know the term for that.I think you got that impression from me not being good at explaining the first two columns.However, I don't think the Freudian explanation is true.I don't see how 16bit sensation is episodic at all.>In Gundam Zeta the protag goes from rebellious young son of a scientist to terrorist and then freedom fighter in very few episodes.Which means nothing to us.>Sure, there's a stretch in the middle where alliances don't change all that muchAsk yourself the following: Has any member of the titans ever explained why they're part of the titans? Why they think they're right? And if they don't think they're right, why they fight for them regardless?You don't, you just have Jerid screeching "KAMILLE", and two characters just screeching at each other with no deeper meaning to their battles isn't very interesting (I have a similar complain with Akira).Sure, let's talk about Dakar: We see a scene where one of the Titans questions himself if he's in the right... he gets killed and nothing of the sort ever happens again nor gets explored again.>the story begins with a hunt for dissenting political speechWe never see the POVs of the average citizen about things, save for a single episode (In fact, that seems to be a theme with Tomino Gundam, having one episode where things are different which just explicits how the rest of it fails).Characters aren't explored in depth AT ALL.
>>284828141Let's compare this to, say, Gundam 00.Gundam 00 starts with mini arcs, each focusing on something that has to do with not only the setting as a whole, but also personally to our characters.If it was written like Zeta, it would be multiple episodic episodes in a row of Setsuna fighting Patrick and Marina would only be introduced 24 episodes in.Talking about anime being episodic, I'll give the example of why I love the first half of Princess Tutu, but not much the second one:The first one is filled to the brim with progress, every episodes in centered around a theme, that theme represents the fragment they get, the fragment changes Myuto, one of the main characters, which keeps modifying the story.By comparison, in the second half, you could swap the order of certain episodes and it would make no difference, as they no longer have a theme, nor do fragments change anything anymore.
>>284828437I don't mean 16bit is episodic, I mean so many different themes going on.. episodic shows can get open with plot.>Which means nothing to us.It means the faux pax of the treaties of 0079 is unwelcome enough that youth are revolting against its definitions of what a zeek is. Your disinterest seems personal.>TitansPower, money, fame, needing a place to prove themselves after the war "ended", it is explained that the Titans are a shortcut to a lofty life, the lack of personal connection to their values clashes with the atrocities commited to illustrate how fake peace can be.>Average citizenKamille and Fa.>DepthYeah, they are, between Kamille, Quattro, Amuro and Haman any of them is better explored than Ryuuko. Hell, even Emma is more of a character than most of KLK.>5x5the last 3 columns are sexual anime (ignoring maybe mahoujin guruguru), some shows on the first two may or may not be (depending on you).I'm not saying you're a coomer, but I suspect you might not let yourself have the patience for some anime if there's no eye-candy.Did you watch Gundam SEED, and if so, did you like Murrue's Ramius's more than Zeta?
>>284821296>>been giving a try to pre-2000's anime every once in a while for yearsstrange, I've been giving a try to post 2015 anime every once in a while for years and all of them failed, especially trashpunk trannyrunner
>>284827452Frankly, it just seems like you're determined to be dismissive and uninterested, whether the story is to short or too long. Like you can't even be fucked to complete the three-episode rule for Yamato? Fuck off.
>>284828560>It means the faux pax of the treaties of 0079 is unwelcome enough that youth are revolting against its definitions of what a zeek is. Your disinterest seems personal.It's not personal.I watched it and really tried to like it, I tried gaslighting myself that I was liking, but then I went to make a post about it, more or less halfway in, and noticed that I mostly had negative things to say as well as complaints.>Power, money, fame, needing a place to prove themselves after the war "ended", it is explained that the Titans are a shortcut to a lofty life, the lack of personal connection to their values clashes with the atrocities commited to illustrate how fake peace can be.Cool, I wish the anime had told me that instead of you.>Kamille and Fa.I don't think that someone in the ship of a terrorist organization is an average citizen.>>284828560>Yeah, they are, between Kamille, Quattro, Amuro and Haman any of them is better explored than Ryuuko. Hell, even Emma is more of a character than most of KLK.It's been more than 10 years since I watched KLK, I don't remember much, so those are not good examples.>>284828560>Did you watch Gundam SEED, and if so, did you like Murrue's Ramius's more than Zeta?I tried watching it and dropped it around 17-19 episodes in.I just kept asking myself "OK, when is the story gonna start?", only to them realize that, if it still had not started, then maybe that WAS the story.Also, it's weird comparing a character to an entire anime, so IDK how to answer that.>>284828622Anon, that was a post about anime I disliked, of course I'm gonna talk negative things about them. If it was a post about anime I liked, I would talk positive things.And OK, I'll watch Yamato's third episode, just for you.
>>284825393 yeah it's always explained by shit taste
>>284828643>Anon, that was a post about anime I disliked, of course I'm gonna talk negative things about them.Yeah and I'm gonna call you on your bullshit.
>>284828643>I watched itAnd didn't get the most basic exposure about what was happening after the end of 0079.>instead of youas early as ep 2, Kamille complains about soldiers bragging to be Titans, Emma and Jerid talk about training their skills and how rash Jerid is being because of the pilot selection. As I remember, there are also episodes later about how Titans get better positions with less training. That's the benefit of a full year anime, it gets almost 50 episodes to tell you stuff, you just have to pay attention.>average citizenGundam is usually "average citizen gets into military ship">not good examplesKLK is in your 5x5, but sure >SEEDI was trying to ascertain if the big tits captain mommy was enough for you to prefer a lesser show, but at least you're consistent there.
>>284828643>Cool, I wish the anime had told me that instead of you.It did if you watched it and stopped being a brainlet
>>284828796>And didn't get the most basic exposure about what was happening after the end of 0079.I did, but there's a difference between "this setting seems interesting" and "this anime is interesting".>>284828796>as early as ep 2, Kamille complains about soldiers bragging to be Titans, Emma and Jerid talk about training their skills and how rash Jerid is being because of the pilot selection. As I remember, there are also episodes later about how Titans get better positions with less training. That's the benefit of a full year anime, it gets almost 50 episodes to tell you stuff, you just have to pay attention.I don't it ever goes beyond just telling that initial stuff, though.>Gundam is usually "average citizen gets into military ship"And in doing so, stops being an average citizen.That whole episode of Amuro with his mother was there to hammer that point.>>284828825All right, I'll try to trust both of you and believe that maybe the issue is with the way I'm watching those anime.So, what am I doing wrong? Should I watch them having something in mind? Trying to pay attention to something in specific?>>284828794"My bullshit" being?I watched the third episode of Yamato, it was better than the two previous ones, I might watch 1-2 more because of that.It's not like I'm "making an effort to not like older anime", it's the exact opposite.Why do you think I'm not "dismissive and uninterested" in anime I actually like?
>>284821296With manga you're basically getting it directly from the mangaka with just a small group of editors and stuff.It's small scale and the way of making it hasn't really changed over the years.Anime has much more staff and the way of making it has changed a lot (which is always more complicated).The audience is also not the same.Overall anime is targeted at a wider audience.Really manga overall will always have superior quality for this reason because it's a purer form of art.
>>284821296If you don't like pre-2000s anime and you like modern slop I can only believe you are literally brainless human garbage who will never have an opinion on anything that matters or can be taken seriously. Literally soulless zoomer husk. You may now whine about "buzzwords" but they accurately describe you.
>>284828437>5 is... well, I don't know the term for that.I'd go with "action schlock". Anyway, the first things that come to mind looking at your list are irreverent girl-centric OVAs like Jungle de Ikou! and Battle Athletes (the OVA rather than the TV, and definitely not the 2021 TV). Since you put Mahoujin Guruguru (2017) on the list, I would also suggest taking a look at the 1994 series. You probably won't enjoy it so much, but it's an opportunity to directly compare two different adaptations of the same material and it might offer you some food for thought. Also, I don't have a clear reason for it, but my gut wants to suggest Irresponsible Captain Tylor.
>>284821296 (OP)You're paying more attention to the discrepancies in anime because they're more obvious to the senses. Cel vs. digital, art direction, voice acting, music choice, and so on. Manga, otoh, is harder to discern if you don't pay attention to the nuances of paneling, composition, narrative structure, etc., because the medium is less complex and has fewer immediate tells. It helps that manga are usually made by a single person give or take a few assistants too so you'll see much greater artistic variety across the board.That aside, you're giving too little credit to how manga's changed over the years. Just look at something like Glass no Kamen vs. Act-Age, they're wildly different experiences despite sharing similar premises, tropes, and themes, because they were made 40 years apart. You can absolutely tell the era most manga were made and the only time it's any harder is when you've got someone like the Tenmaku no Jaadugar mangaka who's going out of their way to emulate Tezuka or one of those nu-gekiga mangaka that's cropped up lately.
>>284829128In addition to the technology of animation changing more than the technology of manga, I think the "format" of TV anime has changed much more than mainstream manga. TV anime used to be oriented around 4+ cours shows with an episodic structure meant to hold up on multiple reruns on broadcast television. This plus the slower production pipeline of cel animation led to slower-paced shows that may end up beating around the bush as they try to fill time. The dominant format started to shift towards shorter two cours shows in the 90s and serial narratives tightened up, especially as this solidified in the 00s. It's even more pronounced now that most shows only get a single cours, which is about the same total runtime as a movie trilogy. All this has a noticeable impact on how stories are told and directed before you even get into art style, music, and the animation mediums used by a production.Meanwhile, manga publishing has been oriented on individual chapters later compiled into volumes, so the pacing of narrative manga has not changed quite as much. Even with the rise of digital publishing, a lot of manga are still planned in a way to allow for tankobon releases, which enforces the same traditional page counts and story structures.
