>lowers stakes than Akagi>dumber protagonist than Akagi>easier games than Akagi>seriously they just played Rock Paper Scissors as two different games, and anyone who calls E-card different is a moronI suppose the pacing is better (which is a good thing) but man, this is not NEARLY as good as Akagi's first half was. Two episodes to go and this final gamble is utterly retarded on every level to the point that I'm hoping the old man crushes him, as Kaiji deserves to be crushed under the weight of his stupidity.
Wait what the fuck, this got a whole second 26 episodes!?How do those compare to season 1? Are they worth watching?
>>285138491Kaiji is the most culturally relevant anime of the last 20 years deal with it mahjong cuck
>>285138575It doesn't sound like you'd enjoy them. The first 8 episodes are absolute god tier but the pacing starts being dogshit in the second half since they stretched out the source material to hit 26 episodes without going to a new arc. Still pretty good overall but again, if you're not into S1 you probably won't enjoy what S2 does either.
>>285138491I don't know anything about Mahjong though so I doubt I would get as much out of it. I just can't relate to it like the simpler games in Kaiji.
>>285138575>>285138858People bitch about the second half of season 2s pacing but I enjoyed it more than the first honestly.
>>285138858Thank you. I didn't hate the show but I feel like after 26 episodes of Akagi and 26 of this I've "gotten the point" enough, and Akagi continues to disappoint me by being such a failure of a person. I can't even root for him because he keeps becoming the architect of his own failures. >>285138942>says the exact opposite opinion of the seasonNow I don't know what to think! I HATE THIS!
>>285138491> bait.jpgHow is it lower stakes when your life is on the line?They both had the same stakes but kaiji isnt the mary sue in it akagi was.
>>285139336The final wager of Akagi is his ACTUAL life blood on the line.The first wager of kaiji is like 2 years of forced labor.The second wager is his health (from the light fall) and then FINALLY his life, from the high fall. This is the highest stake gamble in season 1.The third wager is "nothing" at lowest and "his eardrum" at worst. You can pop your own eardrum on purpose and it heals on its own in less than a month. This is not a threat. They call it "death" again when he wants to go beyond the limit of the drill, but even that would not have been a full lobotomy. It just woulda hurt like a bitch, and probably made him smarter.The final gamble in the season is 4 fingers, another non-life-threatening injury. Mind you that this gamble is ENTIRELY his idea, and it only becomes a threat because he fucks it up, like he fucks up everything. I assume the final episode of the season will explain HOW he fucked it up, and I cannot wait to see that.
>>285138491>>dumber protagonist than Akagi>>easier games than AkagiThat's actually a good thing, at some point Akagi gets ridiculous
>>285138491>>lowers stakes than Akagi>>dumber protagonist than AkagiI don't see the problem with either of these. I know the main character is most likely not going to die if the series hasn't ended (this is doubly true of Akagi since he's in a prequel), but he could still lose money or limbs, and being a human being who can fuck up from time to time makes him interesting.
>>285139467>The final wager of Akagi is his ACTUAL life blood on the line.>The first wager of kaiji is like 2 years of forced labor.
>>285140010Mind you that the forced labor was punishment for a bad decision HE had made, and when he was in that game he decided to make friends with THE VERY PERSON who had put him in debt in the first place. The first time he got 3 stars he should have cut off the other two people on his team.
>>285139467>The first wager of kaiji is like 2 years of forced laborNo it was full on human trafficking, heavily implied he would not see the light of day again.
People who capitalize words for emphasis are all fucking retarded.
>>285138491>>dumber protagonist than Akagi>easier games than AkagiYou just don't get it. It doesn't matter how easy rps is if you're betting ure life on rps. Suddenly it becomes serious.The protagonist is not as cool as Akagi but that gives it more stakes. It's a flawed person who could lose. In Akagi, let's be honest, you know Akagi's going to win hes just too chad to lose. A foregone conclusion. Not much stakes.
>>285140262The repeaters were far too casual for it to be that series, imo.>>2851402754chan doesn't have any form of emphasis-indication and people who claim to be able to properly read emphasis through flat text are completely full of shit. We're not talking. You're reading words I wrote, and writers use either italics or caps to properly indicate speech that cannot be conveyed through text alone.
>>285139692Seeing Kaiji get smarter due to learning from his fuckups is also great.Imagine if Part 1 Kaiji had to get Mario out of that department store.
I recently caught up with the manga. The latest arc has been really comfy. I actually much prefer it to the long drawn-out games that precede it. Shame it's been on hiatus for over over two years now.
>>285138491You're gonna be shocked reading his other work and it's just like an old dude playing golf and another old dude trying to reconnect with his peers with no real stakes beyond their own personal grievances
>>285138575I hope you like 20 episodes of pachinko...Ehh I enjoyed it mostly, pacing is too slow though.
>>285139467I can tell that you not only didnt read the manga but didnt watch the show either. Sue or unsubscribe from whatever youtubers reviews you got your synopsis from.The stakes in espoir was for him to become a human guinea pig AND forced laborer, which he was branded for when he went in the back. There was no intention of him ever paying his debt his life was theirs untill he dies. Thats why when he did wind up in the labor camp he never saw anybody from espoir there.In the human derby nobody was sure they would survive that fall when they started, only after seeing someone fall did they realize they could POTENTIALLY survive it. The second part to claim their prize money was a life or death gamble, and everyone but him lost and died.The e-card game became a life or death match because he could bet beyond just his ear drum and it was intended that they let him die from his injury if he lost those last wagers.Only his final gamble with his fingers was his life not on the line from it since hyoudo allowed him to patch up his hand after he lost.
>>285139467i think non-death stakes are better, especially in a show named after the character taking the bet. not to mention akagi had plenty of bets before the finale that weren't deadly
>>285140342Nothing ever said the repeaters were former losers of the game, just that they came back.
>>285141681I did not claim to read the manga. I am on episode 25 of the first seasons of Kaiji after watching 26 episodes of Akagi.>Thats why when he did wind up in the labor camp.Wow, spoilers.>he could bet beyond just his ear drumYes, he would have gotten a minor lobotomy. People survive those and since he's already retarded, it might have even fixed him.>after he lost.Spoilers AGAIN. You're a massive faggot.
>>285140275Maybe they're German?
>>285141071the lying fuck said it would only last until august nearly year and a half ago. instead he keeps writing those little golf offshoots and this
>>285141777You came in here criticising the specifics of it before you even finished so dont get mad about me spoiling it for you.
>>285138491Kaiji is much more human than Akagi. Kaiji makes mistakes all the time, Akagi is basically infallible. And don't get me wrong, I enjoyed Akagi being so badass. It's just that simply saying "Kaiji is dumber hence it's worse" is such a retarded take.
>>285141824yeah dude its a 15 year old show, you enter threads discussing it at your own risk. he could've been more considerate, you could've predicted this
>>285141860I said "two episodes to go" in the opening post you utter retard. >>285141889I'm not actually bothered all that much but that doesn't make him less of a faggot.
>>285138858>without going to a new arc.but there are 2 arcs in season 2
>>285140073if you cant empathize with kaiji you shouldnt be here.
>>285141824Finish the show you retard, nobody is going to spoiler tag for a show this old, and nobody is going to have a thread for just most of S1
>>285138491Tonegawa is better
>>285138491He looks like he fucks dogs.
>>285139467Retard, please gamble your life away, we don't need more of you.
>>285139467Life in the underground is worse than death desu
>>285142446I don't need to gamble my life away because I'm NOT retarded. Kaiji is a failed human being so it's impossible for me to root for him.
>Kaiji is a failed human beingAnd you think you're not? While you're posting on 4chan?
>>2851429814chan hasn't been a "small internet club for social outcasts" since as far back as 2010, dude. Once you're here you're here forever, but I had a fulfilling career and already retired early - I just like posting here.
>>285142600it is both dreadful, if you empathize, and better than death because he can still recover and continue the story
>>285141908I didnt reply to the OP you had one episode to go when i initially replied, pay attention unlike what you did when you watched the show.
>>285138491Better than that gary-stu Akagi. You want to root for him
>>285138491I just want zero story to be finished
>>285138491>Akagi's first half wasWashizu Mahjong is the peak of Akagi though.>lowers stakes than AkagiHuh? How? Less money at play? For Kaiji these are huge stakes. Comparatively the stakes are quite a bit bigger than in Akagi, especially since you know Akagi will succeed while Kaiji is much more on the edge of losing.>dumber protagonist than AkagiHe is, but he gets a lot smarter.>easier games than AkagiDepends on the game, these have pros and cons. I think FKMT mahjong has some of the best stuff he ever wrote but some Kaiji games are insanely good in different ways.>seriously they just played Rock Paper Scissors as two different games, and anyone who calls E-card different is a moronPart 1 is quite a lot weaker than the rest of Kaiji imo. I think it peaks at the human derby actually. Watch part 2, the first game should give you your Kaiji fix.>>285138575Like I said, part 2 > part 1With FKMT you have to understand something, his writing evolved quite a lot with the years. Early Akagi is very different from late Akagi, and the same applies even more to Kaiji. Kaiji has some of the greatest writing with part 3 (if you can understand mahjong you really need to read that one, it's THAT good) and 5.
>>285138880Akagi isn't about mahjong, it's about accepting your death. Don't let mahjong filter you, it's quite the philosophical work.>>285139336Akagi isn't a Mary Sue whatsoever, he has personal flaws. If anything Ten would be closer to a Mary Sue even though Ten struggles a lot more to win than Akagi.
bump
>>285138575>How do those compare to season 1?They spend 70% of the show playing pachinko. It feels like Kaiji's own endless eight.
>>285146980It's glorious though
>>285146991NGL, I had fun watching it... even my roommate that doesn't like anime was invested into it after a while, it felt like stockholm syndrome. I did also like endless eight though, so it may be a me issue (and my roomie has severe gambling/drug issues).I wouldn't reccomend it though
>>285141883>Akagi is basically infallible.this is what people don't get. Having an infallible perfect protagonist is why Kaiji is and will always be better and more popular than Akagi. Who the fuck wants to read about some 2smart4u edgy teenager? Kaiji's a worthless piece of shit, now THAT'S someone I can relate to!
>>285147110You wouldn't get it, frogposter.
>>285147143There's nothing to get.
>>285147167You need to have a soul to see it
Okay so I finished season 1.>>285147110I cannot relate to someone as unbearably stupid as Kaiji. He had all the money he needed to get out of debt, clear the old man's debt, and fix his ear.He chose to "defeat" a man who could throw away 10 times Kaiji's net worth on a whim, as if that gamble would ever do any damage to the president even if Kaiji HAD won.He came up with a basic, transparent plan that was immediately seen through and then got outmaneuvered in his own swindle."Oh but he put on a brave face and accepted his loss with [some] dignity, and even learned from it" doesn't cut it when he could have just looked at the damn card, seen that it was tampered with, and settled for a draw. I can;'t trust that he'll remember the lessons he learned the next time the chips are down.
>>285147448Kaiji gets much better after S1 as a character and gamble wise too.Also, he saw his mates die during the derby so he really wanted to destroy the chairman.
>>285147490There is a large difference between "wanting to" and "being even remotely capable of doing so." Hyodo it certain worth something to the tune of trillions. What could Kaiji have possibly bet against him to get Hyodo to put that on the line? The answer is nothing. Kaiji had nothing to play against him, so he never had a chance to defeat Hyodo in any meaningful way. He met his goal so he should have cut and run, to fight another day.
>>285147019i warned my irl friend about the pachinko but he was also wtf i loved it. comparing it to endless eight is an insult to kaiji
>>285147661That's true, these 200 millions meant nothing. I'm just saying he has a personal, emotional reason to want to take a jab at that guy, even if it might not mean much in practice. I'm not going to defend part 1 much more, I mostly memoryholed it despite loving Kaiji.
>>285147663Endless Eight is kino thoughbeit
>>285147448well you can trust it or not but he does
>>285147737You're saying the next time he's presented with an opportunity to just walk the fuck away with his winnings, he actually takes it?
>>285147714i skipped 5 and a half eps, no regrets>>285147661he was going for a moral victory iirc, to prove him wrong not take all his money
>>285147448Peoples media literacy really has gone down the drain in recent years, huh.
>>285147796thats not exactly the lesson there, but anyway just watch the show and read the manga after
>>285147796Just watch season 2, it's hard to really discuss Kaiji's character indepth with only S1 imo
>>285147448What subs are deez?Not triad.
>>285147663It would be if the bog was entirely 2d animated... this could put s2 way above s1.
>>285138491I like part 6
>>285148062P6 is incredibly underrated
>>285148062Me tooI had read people didn't like it before I got to it, and while I don't think it's the strongest point of the manga or anything, it's pretty nice. Lets Kaiji just be a dude and reflect while retaining tense moments and planning. Good break before the supposed finale.
>>285148062that the current arc? of course i love it, the issue is the lack of chapters. i'd read 100 more of it if it actually existed
>>285147798>he was going for a moral victoryYou cannot achieve a moral victory against a person without morals.>>285147823Your smugness is misplaced if I didn't get any part of that wrong, which I didn't.>>285147992Looks like DB? I just grabbed whatever off of nyaa.
>>285148550>You cannot achieve a moral victory against a person without morals.That's a pretty arbitrary statement. Maybe humiliating Hyodo would've been great and made a difference. Maybe not. Maybe it'd be for Kaiji's personal satisfaction. But at the end of the day it's important to highlight that this wasn't out of faulty reasoning ("I'll take 200 millions, that'll destroy his empire!"), Kaiji had other reasons to do that and they made sense to him.
>>285148595>humiliating HyodoAre you Kaiji? Am I currently talking to Kaiji? He made it perfectly clear before the lot-drawing that "beginner's luck happens so no one expects to win every battle." Kaiji never had a ghost of a chance against Hyodo. He should have just walked away the moment he saw what Hyodo did to his own subordinates.
>>285148640>Kaiji never had a ghost of a chance against HyodoThat's your entire argument, you haven't said anything else, and this is, once again, arbitrary and based on hindsight. We have watched part 1 so we know Kaiji loses this, but you really can't tell with any certainty whether or not the old coot would somehow figure out there's a paper in that place of the box. Realistically speaking if you were to take 100 Hyodo-like people in real life, would you expect all 100 of them to just figure it out on the spot? Or even 50? I wouldn't.
>>285148550Go be retarded somewhere else
>>285148550>You cannot achieve a moral victory against a person without morals.but hyodo's morality is on full display. he believes the strong should rule the weak with an iron first. this is the moral conflict at the core of the whole story, the underdog vs the powerful.kaiji at that moment says "enough!" which is brave, but stupid. he loses but he leaves with an incredibly valuable lesson which pays off in the long term.the lesson isn't to quit while ahead, its that a battle is won before it begins
>>285149048no, not literally of course, but ever since kaiji never misses his preparation and planning reps
basically kaiji is a story of a broke leftie loser becoming a sigma grindset bitcoin millionaire (still a bit lefty tho, but replaces resentment with self-improvement)
>>285147714based endless eight enjoyer
>>285138491Too bad Shiboyugi just dropped and both Akagi Kaiji are irrelevant now
>>285147110Akagi is the villain. You root for the yakuza to take him down but ultimately their greek tragic persona ultimately befalls them and they succumb to Akagi's force of nature
>>285141824Making a thread to bitch about a show to people who have actually finished, specifically complaining and comparing the non-final stakes of the show to the final stakes of a different show it, and then complaining when people argue from the persepctive of the full breadth of the show makes you the dumbest dumb dumb I've seen today.
>>285151072>Akagi is the villain. You root for the yakuza to take him down This is the biggest meme perpetuated by people who, at best, only watched the anime.
>>285147448It wouldn't be a gambling manga if the protagonist were to make good life decisions. The whole point is Kaiji growing more conceited until he experiences failure and has to actually lock in. But then he either grows conceited again or wants to chase the gambler's high again. It's an addiction.Akagi chases the same high, but that's just because it's one of the few things making him feel alive at all.
>>285151323>Akagi chases the same high, but that's just because it's one of the few things making him feel alive at all.Kind of but it's also a bit more complicated. He does it less after he finally gets to have "the real fight" he was seeking with Washizu.>picYou just need to edit Akagi's haircut, color Kaiji's hair in black and it's perfect
>>285138491>lowers stakes than AkagiThis is good, it makes losing feel more like an actual possibility than if it was "Kaiji will die if he loses">dumber protagonist than AkagiThat's a good thing>easier games than Akagi>seriously they just played Rock Paper Scissors as two different games, and anyone who calls E-card different is a moronI'd take them over mahjong, mahjong and mahjong.
>>285151568Mahjong is great
>>285138491Gambling addicts are morons, big fucking news.
>>285151568Kaiji's best arc is mahjong
>>285143435Best we can do is more golf
>>285138880>I don't know anything about Mahjong though so I doubt I would get as much out of it.To enjoy Akagi you only need to know 3 things.1. Mahjong is a more complicated poker, but follows the same idea.2. Everything else is explained in the series3. If something isn't explained, then you weren't suppose to understand it in the first place(see pic related)
>>285151597Best kaiji antagonist
>>285151605It helps if you know how to play, but I've met so many people that watched akagi without understanding mahjong and still managed to enjoy the series all the way through
>>285151486I think I just saw this pic and made the edit. Or someone else did off of it.
Who else out there jonging their mahs?
>>285147661Just rolling over and accepting that you can never hope to challenge the elites who are free to play with your life as they please is absolute cuck behavior. Kaiji took a chance, as irrational and slim as it was. You could say he took a gamble in this gambling manga, crazy I know.
>>285151323>wants to chase the gambler's high again. It's an addiction.When I was watching Kaiji for the first time, I actually assumed he'd win and make it big at the end of S1, but that he'd keep going because of that.
>>285151605I mean, everything makes sense at some point. Well, except for early games luck bending shenanigans ("I'll just win on rinshan kaihou" is too unlikely to gamble on). In your picture it's really just Akagi's hand evolving slowly from Tanyao dora 4 (potential sanshoku) to a potential sanshoku doukou, to a potential houtei.>>285138880Pick up the mahjong soul. Or don't, and just watch Akagi raw and you'll want to pick up mahjong afterwards anyway.
>>285151646Alright, we can get a room going https://mahjongsoul.game.yo-star.com/?room=48804
>>285151656>just watch Akagi raw and you'll want to pick up mahjong afterwards anywayThisI watched Akagi with two friends to show them its FKMT greatness and they both picked up mahjong after thatThey quit playing regularly after a few months but they still know the rules and all
>>285151682>he won a 4 little windsI'm not feeling too confident bros....
>>285151712To this day my favorite win out of manySwitched to a more fitting character for the room
>>285151758>everyone pulled Akagi
>>2851516823/4
>>285151781I wanted Washizu but he didn't comeSuch is life
>>285151597not sure if best arc as a whole, but the best game yes
>>285151781Don't worry, I haven't either. In fact, I haven't pulled any of the collab characters so far. I'm still pretty lucky with my pulls though.
why does Mahjsoul have a gacha when they give you the best character at the very start?
>>285138491>lowers stakes than Akagiits higher stakes because kaiji can actually lose instead of it being "akagi if you lose you have to cut your dick off and bleed to death (he never loses because hes super genius gary stu)>dumber protagonist than Akagiso? Youre a dumber protagonist than kaiji and your mom loves you anyway>easier games than Akagigood, nobody but fat headed japs care about mahjong and kaijis popularity proves it
>>285151919God I hate FKMT tourists
>>285151941what's his best less popular work and why?
>>285151968LiFe, it's a very emotionally strong story. I wish they made a movie version, I think one could be great.
>>285152224My nigga, it's my favorite Fukumoto manga.
>>285151968Confession. It's about two dudes trying to kill each other.
>>285151682ggs, thanks for the gamesI'm going back to scanlating, the flow favored me enough with that last win
>>285152562Thanks for saving me with that hanetsumo~ fun games. Our friends at /mjg/ filled in the ranks btw
>>285152574I'm aware I'm also an /mjg/ regular but since I joined here I thought it's more fitting if I say gg here
>>285138491Nobody likes mahjong
>>285147448>He chose to "defeat" a man who could throw away 10 times Kaiji's net worth on a whimThis is the so called gambler's "high stakes temptation".Almost every gambling addicting who is on a winning streak will put his gains on the line just win that extra risky x10 bet. The worst part about this, is that these addicts know this is the biggest mistake they will do, but they do it anyways.This is why Kaiji S1 is a top tier gambling kino.Kaiji and his debts are relatable, and his desperation during the most fucked up moments is tangible. His only superpower is that he gets gambling god skills every time he gets cornered, but that doesnt change his dumbass gambling nature. He is prone to the same stupid shit as every other gambling addict is. Also, season1 ends with a perfect anti gambling message.
>>285147448because the only time kaiji truly feels alive is when he wins a gamburu
>>285153700Not really
>>285153758part 6 was just a dream
>>285151323Sure, but at least Akagi is good at it.>>285151605As a know-nothing about mahjong, I took it as a more complicated version of jim rummy, but yeah. The show was perfectly fine even without any mahjong knowledge.>>285151650Kaiji is a cuck, so that would follow. Or did you forget that the start of the show is him vandalizing neighborhood cars? Only a subhuman fucks with another man's vehicle.
>>285153513im a professional poker player, not much of a gambler but i've had my degen moments, and i know a lot of gamblers. i don't see this "high stakes temptation" much. when people win big they don't want to quit, so they keep playing but don't necessarily increase the stakes. then they lose money and that's when the true beast of gambling shows up - chasing losses. we hate losing far more than we love winning, so we definitely don't want to stop while losing. along with the money slowly goes your sanity, you're in shit too deep to dare think about it, and you're only able to stop when broke or passing some point of no return when all hope is truly lost and you need money for the cab ride home or whatever. an example of this in kaiji is the old guy with the bog especially, slots (pachinko is basically the same thing) are the worst for chasing losses. kaiji at least mostly plays games where he needs to actively think and this prevents tilt.anyway i don't think all this gambling addict talk is giving kaiji enough credit. sure he loves the feeling, anyone would, and he loves it too much, but he is also aware of this and it doesn't consume him or cause him as many mistakes as the story progresses.>>285154121>Or did you forget that the start of the show is him vandalizing neighborhood cars?yeah he starts as a resentful bitch, but he gets better
>>285154269if anything, his title of "ultimate survivor" is about him getting motivated when he's losing, so yeah his gambling problem is more so that he needs to feel a lot of pressure before he gets serious, rather than being motivated by winning to win more
>>285152224If we are going by full manga then it's definitely the real answerIf we only view one arc then either Family Massacre in Gin to Kin or Akagi's Funeral in Ten
>>285154121>Sure, but at least Akagi is good at it.Watching Kaiji suffer the consequences of his bad decisions is part of the appeal.
>>285154269Its true that when you are on a lost streak you are at your most vulnerable if you are a gambling addict, but Im certainly sure that there are gambling degens who just dont know when to stop. This is what happens in the end of kaiji S1. I dont know what happens to the professional gambling world, but one only needs to go to /biz/ to see that kind kind of "high stakes temptation" behaviour. These niggers are willing to buy scam coins on the promise that their shitcoin might moon.I also know from personal experience since I have an addicted to gambling relative
>>285155151To continue to this post, perhaps I might have phrased the gambling degen problem of not knowing when to stop as "high stakes temptation". Im sure that there are people who are tempted to raise the stakes when they are winning, but the majority of people as you correctly said, usually raise the stakes to make up for their losses. I have posted this gambling degen lolcow, because he is a prime example of what I meant. He only only doesnt know when to stop, but has also taken stupidly risky bets when he was winning good.Its been years since I saw kaiji but from what I remember, it was mostly arrogance that led kaiji to take the final challenge. He probably thought at that point he was smart enough to be a hero and outsmart the devil. He dearly paid the price though in the end, and this is why the S1 ending is kino. Most gambling addict stories start miserable, become an emotional roller coaster, and they end up in a more miserable situation. S1 ending really reflects that truth and delivers a great anti gambling message.
>>285140010>2 year of forced labor in a mine with conditions so harsh that you're unlikely to return alive anyway isn't high stakesIt sounds like you think Kaiji's going to an oppresive 9 to 5 office or something
>>285150902ToT
gambling emperor zero is better than both
>>285156079I haven't read it yet. But aren both parts stuck in somewhat of a cliffhanger limbo? As far as I heard, part 1 ends in a cliffhanger that doesn't get resolved, and part 2 starts in medias res and ends on a cliffhanger, or at least with unresolved plot points?
>>285138491Kakegurui is shit but it has hot girlsKaiji is shit and it has ugly peopleEasy choice
>>285138491Don't need to bait this hard if you want a Kaiji thread.
>>285156443It's foreshadowing a big part 3 showdown but nevertheless it's a great self contained read. I fucking love part 2.
>>285156495
>>285140275you are SO right
>>285151605My Washizu Majhong's first reading:> This sounds like fucking bullshit but it's really cool. My Washizu Majhong's second reading:> I think I get it now! He actually was using psychology to read Washizu's plays, that's really cool.My Washizu Majhong's third reading:> Wait... how did he knew that? Washizu never hinted anything like that... it was pure luck? He just gambled on that? That's really cool. My Washizu Majhong's tenth reading:> So he was able to understand Washizu's soul? He actually just gambled on his opponent betting on himself and his god-given 1 in a million luck? This is fucking bullshit! But it's still pretty cool.
I just finished Kaiji and Usogui. What do I read next, gambling bros?I HATE MAHJONG
>>285158302Mahjong is the end game for all gamblers
>>285158030Most Washizu mahjong plays are somewhat reasonable but on the crazy side of reality. Let me explain myself because it doesn't sound right: Akagi stops getting these kind of insane rolls of the dick (rinshan, 4 kandoras...). He still has to get some solid luck at some points (eg: converting iipeikou into chitoi in time) but when playing Washizu generally he can't get game carrying luck.Compare Akagi's kan against Washizu (chapter 220~) to the one that gives him 4 kandoras against Urabe. The chapter is named "Explosion", refering to the kan, and yet, all the kan gets him is... a draw that puts him into tenpai. A ryanmen completing draw, iirc. Not even a kandora, let alone the multiple Ohgi is hoping for and Washizu is fearing. And yet Akagi manages to take this home in crazy ways later but all he has to work with is a 3200 points hand at that point, which he painfully takes to 6400, then 8000.
>>285138491Meanwhile, Gin to Kin:>higher stakes than Akagi>smarter protagonist than Akagi>more varied "games" than Akagi>better mahjong game than anything in Akagi
>>285158349Almost all of Washizu's hands are fucking bullshit and Akagi is always ready for it. He was slightly short of getting pure Tenhou's.
>>285158430Also >cancelled for a porn magazine
>>285158436Washizu gets four or five bullshit hands over 6 hanchan, but that's the antagonist's luck which is different. Akagi isn't actually ready for it, in fact Akagi's hand values are somewhat on the low side especially for a mahjong manga. He gets lots of 2-3 han direct hits, SOMETIMES a mangan, and iirc only one haneman and one baiman (through Washizu dealing into sanshoku ippatsu by being a retard). He makes a difference taking Washizu's riichi stick with his small hands, that's just how weaker his hands are. Tons of failures too.Last hand is a different story for clear reasons, and even then...
mahjong is just boring. simple as. there's is a reason the kaiji anime stopped where it did. if you like mahjong you're a virgin. it is proven.
>>285158302Gambling Emperor Zero
>>285138491Kaiji mogs Akagi in terms of storytelling and emotional impact. Akagi is better for hype and aura farming, it's legit kino in that department.
>>285163248>Kaiji mogs Akagi in terms of storytelling and emotional impact.Are you taking into consideration Ten's final arc?
I cant take akagi seriously. It was fun at the start but then it goes 250 chapters on something that should take 10 times less. to be redundant to this extent will not be forgiven
>>285163282Ok it's equivalent
Now I'm pretty close to rewatching Akagi for the 9th time, just because of this thread. I have stuff to do...
>>285163248Anime only tier post
>>285163341Later Akagi parts clearly mog the earlier ones though. Unless you're reading this weekly you have no excuse
>>285163539do it
>>285163539I have reread it 7 or so times, like 4 with my fellow anons during the Storytimes.
>>285158302Zero, Nikaido, Gai.
>>285158302just want to say usogui is pretty cool
>>285164197Ok if you root for washizu it becomes like Kaiji. Happy?
>>285147110/thread
>>285165996I am in this image and I like it.
one thing I never understood is why in Akagi, they almost always ignore the two side playersthe anime makes it feel like mahjong is a 1v1 game, with the less characterized guys barely matteringit's also shown that the side players play to make their main player win, rather than trying to win themselvesdoes this make any sense in real mahjong? or is it done purely for drama? are we supposed to ignore it?
>>285139467Non-death stakes are better you dumb cunt. With a non-death stake there's no certainty on whether the protagonist will win.Akagi isn't bad, but it's literally just>and then Akagi wins because he's the best
>>285166426> Early gamesSkill gap. > Washizu MahjongThey were playing as teams Washizu&White Suit vs Akagi & Detective. The teammates dealt beneficial tiles to the main players of their respective teams and their fuckups really screw their teammates. White Suit is a better player than the Detective btw, maybe it was the Washizu boost.
Does anyone else think that Otsuki is just about one of the most satisfying villain defeats ever? I genuinely can't think of one that gets me more excited. Every time I read it, I just get this stupid fucking grin and "FUCK YEAH" feeling when I finally get to his fall. I don't know what exactly that makes it feel so great and satisfying.
>>285138491I think you're gay and retarded and that you should kill yourself. stop watching and don't read the manga of akagi. you don't deserve any of fukumoto's works. die in a hole, nigger.
>>285166596If you have ever had a job, you know Ohtsuki personally, this shit is everyone's dream. Taking down a corrupt boss.
>>285161789this
It's sad to think Kaiji will probably never get finishedI unironically like part 6, I wish it got to the end at least.
>>285165662It's not about rooting for one or the other, it's about seeing these character arcs unfold. They're layered, complex characters with lots to say about life in general and in many ways two sides of the same coin.
>>285166426Like >>285166521 said you're supposed to chalk early instances of this to skill gap but it's really not realistic. Sometimes FKMT goes out of his way to portray the two extras having threatening hands and making riichis but it's not really enough.FKMT writing evolved significantly in the meantime though. Washizu mahjong had team play, later parts of Ten also were very 4 player centric, and for a better example (2 "named" players and 2 extras), you can read Mamiya and see that the extras actually matter.
>>285166596>>285166647Read the Ohtsuki spinoff, he's a great guy and it's legitimately Kaiji tier
>>285166889mamiya was such a wild trip, fkmt was never meant to write female characters
>>285155447>it was mostly arrogance that led kaiji to take the final challenge.Sort of? I remember he was more in a situation where he saw how evil Hyodo was and through his own good nature knew he had to be stopped, but he saw that as his only opportunity to do literally anything to the man as he was just going to return to the shadows.
>>285156495Thanks for the image anon
I like Akagi, but he lacks a ‘pathos‘ found in Kaiji.
what happened to the manga
>>285166596> not NO COUNTOBleh subs.https://youtu.be/lf7Lxhy857Y?si=IWDGiK3yMcqjLYq4
>>285153758>>285153845The Endou-Kaiji dynamic is so good. This panel still cracks me up.
>>285168466Kaiji is a struggler. He's very human. He's to disaffected young men what Kurosawa is to lonely middle aged men. Akagi is just...not human; at least his younger version isn't. He's a complete force of nature that never loses.
>>285153845If only Uno really had been the game for part 3, we probably would have had an adaptation for One Poker already.
>>285143200On the second season we more or less see what type of forced labor that company was running underground. I don't believe that most people would survive on those places if I am being honest. 2 years would strech forever and other shady type of characters would also be with you there, so being shanked isn't out of the board on how people would die there too.
>>285169622yeah most prisons seem safer
>>285138880Mahjong is a purely luck based game and everything in Akagi is total BSthat's all you need to know
>>285169873Wrong. The skill ceiling in Mahjong is extremely high, even the memorization involved to play optimally rivals professional chess. Imagine counting cards for three different blackjack games at once. Choosing the right move even with perfect information can be tricky.
Bump
>>285169120>>285168466Akagi is the most real human bean though. Yes he's a force of nature but one that embodies the real human duality
>>285158436I distinctly remember a round where Washizu is trying to fold, and his hand still somehow morphs into a tenpai for chiitoi, what a luckshitter.
>>285172237Happens to me sometimes lol. Mahjong is funny
>>285172202This.Akagi is a representation of what people call an "adrenaline junkie" with a hint of "most dangerous game" in him. Instead of jumping off cliffs to get his adrenaline going, Akagi goes a step further to play life and death games against other humans though the series started with Akagi literally jumping off a cliff as part of a chicken game, but that was a competition against other humans. He doesn't hate to lose but his mindset doesn't let him lose either because he views these gambles with the calmness of a spectator who has nothing to do with the death that might happen.There were only two occasions where he got cornered enough to feel trepidation: once when the yakuza nearly killed him because they wanted him to lie because he was winning too much in a dice game, and the other time when Yasuoka fucked up in the Washizu game. The first shows that even when threatened, Akagi remains an idealist who would rather die than betray himself. The second shows that even though Akagi doesn't fear death as much as others, he fears the idea of not dying on his own terms. Yasuoka's fuck up had nothing to do with Akagi and his actions, yet he would have been the one who needed to suffer the consequences. Even if only for a few panels it's visible that Akagi hates that idea. And this part of his is consistent with old Akagi who would rather euthanize himself than being taken over by an illness like Alzheimer. Sure, he is a force of nature who has an innate ability to read the flow but he is very much human.
>>285173282>once when the yakuza nearly killed him because they wanted him to lie because he was winning too much in a dice gameI think this one is quite interesting because Akagi wasn't feeling the thrill of the gamble like against Washizu. Rather he called these guys pieces of shit, and while he stayed true to himself and his ideals you can tell it took some level of struggle.Later on, he would say that looking at it in retrospect, it was foolish, but that's the entire point: as irrational as it seems, even though it's working against your interests, you might have to take the hit and make that choice when the time comes, because the alternative isn't necessarily that much better.
>>285173409Pic relatedI don't think it's quite as straightforward as Akagi says here, he is a developing character and the Washizu fight had a lot of impact on him, but on some level I think it's pretty true. It's hard to do but accepting the idea of a meaningless end is one of the important steps towards creating meaning.
>>285173409>>285173433Akagi was clearly born in the wrong eraHe could've competed with Musashi on the battlefield if he was born 400 years earlier, exact same mentality that made Musashi survive the frontlines as a foot soldier and what made him develop the Niten Ichi-ryuu
>>285173579That's true but on some level I don't think you can truly separate Akagi's struggle from this sense of urban wandering
>>285173632But even that urban wandering is a product of his mentalityIn an era where everyone aims for money and power people like Akagi are treated like fish out of water with no place to call home because their lake already dried up
>>285173739This is the tragedy of Washizu as well. A man who is too used to human lives being taken is an oddity when peace arrives.
>>285138491I swear to the gods he would be so much better off if he never took loans to gamble and instead worked a low income but steady jobBut here we are
>i'll just play one game>YAKUMANGod I love jong
>kids born while kaiji was airing are now adults
>>285156443yeah sort of but fkmt is autistic enough to write a sequel series for Ten in the modern day like 20 years after it ended, i believe in him to align his autism and finish the story eventually
Kaiji is about a normal man struggling Akagi is about other people reacting to a genius
>>285138491Akagi is FKMT's gary stu. He's a very interesting gary stu, but his principles rely on voodoo luck and "flow" that somehow he can perfectly read. The only thing you can really learn from him is the idea that you have to gamble big to win big.Meanwhile Kaiji's themes are more down to earth. Luck is still there, but he is blissfully unaware of it, relying more on his strategy and his ability to connect with others.
>>285138491Kaiji explains everything unlike Akagi.Akagi is just super lucky and daring most of the time.Akagi only gets good at the final arc when he is the underdog in luckiness. Kaiji is always the underdog.
I fucking love Kaiji
>>285178787Mikoko........
>>285166889>Washizu mahjong had team play>>285166521>White Suit is a better player than the Detective btw, maybe it was the Washizu boost.I get what you're saying, but "team play" also employed literal telepathyhow else did the side players always know how to play and which tiles to give to their mainthey blatantly had supernatural team chat
>>285176776>his principles rely on voodoo luck and "flow" that somehow he can perfectly readAkagi's principles rely on him having accepted his death so he can do things that most people can't, or can't foresee. He spends equal time with bad and good luck, you often get Ohgi cursing Akagi's shit luck during the Washizu mahjong. Of course he also had good luck a few times before (the Urabe match) so it's not like he's unlucky either, but saying he just relies on luckshitting is clearly wrong.That said he does read the "flow", but that's something most good mahjong players do on some level. Not quite as advanced as Akagi, but you can tell most of the turns and tides in Akagi "make sense" on the mahjong metaphysical plane, just like when you know missing one move means you're going to get cursed again and again right after that and it's been over since that one move (and it's not tilting, it's actually genuinely the tile distribution being unfavorable to you in various ways)>The only thing you can really learn from him is the idea that you have to gamble big to win big.Wrong. Akagi is the one who gets a full 3 volumes final arc dedicated to discussing philosophy with troubled adults and helping them find their way in life. Kaiji doesn't get that, or certainly not on that level. Of course you can learn a lot of things from Kaiji.>>285177707I've already answered the luck part, but I don't see any instance where anything in Akagi doesn't get explained. I'm pretty sure people say that because of the meme picture "nobody understands what Akagi is doing" but Akagi in fact spends an entire episode explaining one hand. He constantly infodumps the reasoning behind his choices
>>285181368Pic relatedHe does these quite often. Just an infodump.
>>285181368lol. Remember when Akagi tried to argue that chanta was extremely efficient because there were more potential tiles that could go into it?
>>285183565That was Ten and at the beginning of Ten. Which coincidentally is also when Akagi's character wasn't figured out yet, early Ten had all characters get some designated yaku/superpower and Akagi was the chanta gambit (+ crazy luck), which don't really fit.That said, it's not entirely wrong since a big part of that scene is that these tiles will come out of people's hands as they'll likely be unwanted. And that part is true, you can call for chanta pretty fast. It's just that it's unrealistic to think you'd get that many hands that can be turned into chantas, it's not that rare but it's not that usual either.
>>285183692Remember when he picked out every single correct tile against Fake Akagi? Remember when he correctly guessed every single tile that Soga was going to throw out 9 times in a row? Dude is a wizard. But only FKMT can write a character whose power is winning the lottery look cool.
>>285183893>Remember when he picked out every single correct tile against Fake AkagiYes, that is wizardry. Unless you believe in 3% odds which are frankly too low for me. I never discussed the fact there are a few scenes that highlight the supernatural intuition, but how many exactly? You named two, and I wouldn't even count the second one because he was nearly dead and something deeper, supernatural was at play, just like Washizu whose powers got stronger as he got closer to death.On the other hand, and most importantly, the average Akagi chapter never uses that. In fact Akagi makes mistakes and doesn't have foresight. I can name at least two during Washizu mahjong. One of them is pic related, if he had riichi'd here he would have killed Washizu on the spot, but he couldn't because of the risk.
>>285184085And like I said above, >>285181438He doesn't have a supernatural eye that sees the opponent's tiles, he has to infer them based on reason and guesses.He does it with a precision level that's higher than what would be achievable in real life, because it's a manga, but it's all based on reason + gambling. It's just that there would be a bit more flukes in real life.
>>285181368poker player here, can confirm flow is real in the sense of "unconscious competence" allowing you to perform calculations and predictions without using verbal reasoning, which is essentially a "feel", and you would use that (or rather not waste time with verbal reasoning) in more broad strategic matters which would fit the "flow of the game" while using reasoning for tactics that actually matter. it can overlap with tilt, but its more like tilt will make reading the flow inaccurate rather than saying its all tilt or how you're feeling.it is something your brain will do and it is based on real information, but it is also not reliable or as important as verbal reasoning.>>285183893fake akagi is what a real pro looks like, at least in poker i don't play 'jong
>>285184849In mahjong this flow situation might be slightly different in the sense that it really just boils down to patterns within the tile distribution that tend to show up more depending on situations. One small detail (eg one small miss) might be the sign of impending doom, not with the practical consequences of it (the miss isn't that big) but rather through what it "represents" and the almost karmic punishment that awaits youI'm not big into poker but I assume you have a bit more room to adjust when it comes to poker, so this "flow state" allowing you to make better reads can change the future outcomes, but it's slightly different.It's just like Akagi starting the final hand of the round and he has a West dora tile that is also Washizu's wind, and he can see Washizu has at least one West tile in his hand... the conclusion that Washizu also has a second West seems incredibly natural at that point. It's nothing scientific, but if you're being realistic you can just tell that something is happening there.
AkagiKaijiLegendary Gambler TetsuyaSakiAny other awesome gambling anime like these?
>>285185044Liar Game soon. You need to read more manga for gambling though, probably.
>>285185017poker has blockers (if you have the ace of spades and king of clubs that means your opponent is less likely to have a pair of aces, pair of kings, he can't have the ace high spade flush which lets you bluff on that, etc) but you can only see your own cards and a couple community cards. jong is different because of the discard pile which gives you a lot more blocker information (what your opponent doesnt/cant have in his hand).>but rather through what it "represents" and the almost karmic punishment that awaits youthese would be "scare cards" and "coordinated boards" perhaps. or more generally situations you often get into that you get a foreboding dejavu, not of what will happen but what can happen. you start dividing the possible realities into buckets, the situations you win, the situations you lose, and how they play out.and yeah in poker its more about a series of many independent hands, each with less information than jong. i can see how flow would be more important and accurate in jong.
>>285185336>not of what will happen but what can happen. you start dividing the possible realities into buckets, the situations you win, the situations you lose, and how they play outYeah kind of like that. The poker outlook is pretty interesting. Too bad FKMT only wrote one poker game.
Washizu's "revival" arc is some of the least shameless character armor I've ever read. Just asspull-level sewage. The manga was pretty good up until that point, too.
>>285185874What are you even talking about? He blacked out for a moment due to the blood loss, then came back for a while, at least. What's the problem here?
>>285186182I'm referring to the ten or so chapters he spent in hell.
>>285186294It's a glorified hallucination (unless FKMT hell actually exists and they play baby foot of the damned there) and meant to be part of his character arc with him regaining his old strength, bowing to no one.
>>285138491i dont care about akagi.i dont care abot chinese dominoes
