I fucking hate how anime as a medium is defined by cost cutting and tricks to make slaving your animators away 2% more efficient.I know old good new bad faggots have a bad rap on here but it's mindboggling how little the jap bug people care about artistry these days, they completely abandoned cel animation just because it was more expensive and time consuming; meanwhile mediums like photography and cinema still use film and analog methods if the project or the vision calls for it. Or if they weighed the advantages and disadvatages of film and analogue techniques vs digital and cgi and thought it viable.Imagine that, literally nobody in Japan knows how to animate on cels anymore, an entire medium with all of its advantages and idiosyncrasies completely abandoned. I should be able to like cel and digital anime just like how I like both stuff filmed on 35mm like The Lighthouse or Northmen or Il Conformista vs digital stuff shot on arri alexas or whatever like Everything Everywhere all at Once or Russian Ark or Dune.Like, digital /theoretically/ should be able to do anything analog can and more, there's is LITERALLY more stuff one is able to do with digital tools, but noone can make stuff that looks as good as webmrel from fucking 1991; and shows that do try to replicate the look like Megalobox miss the mark completely.
I just hate how modern cgi in anime looks too. It's really fucking sad how cgi from 2004 looks better than the cost cutting cgi in current year shit
>hurr durr old good new bad
>>285173093Silent Mobius is getting a comic crossover with the Avengers for some reason, so maybe someone agrees with OP
>>285173093This is correct.
The anime industry doesn't care about artistry because the Japanese don't care about artistry. For them, anime is just flashy scenes and fanservice, that's all they want out of the medium
>>285173061>anime as a mediumanime is not a medium >like The Lighthouse or Northmenoh, this is a bait thread
>>285173166What do you mean it's not a medium
>>285173166I think anime is a medium.Maybe you'd rather call it by a different name, but the name doesn't supersede the subject.
>Like, digital /theoretically/ should be able to do anything analog can and moreI wonder, is it in fact easier to just relearn the methods and recreate the tools from scratch if you want to recreate the great looking cel anime of the 1990s or is it in fact easier to stick to digital and actually put in the effort to meticulously replicating the aesthetic?I'd imagine the look of either style is more to do with the tools and methods people were constrained with rather than any sort of active sensibility
Silent Mobius was dogshit bro.
>>285173508most anime are, my point is about the looks
>The Lighthouse or Northmen or Il Conformista vs digital stuff shot on arri alexas or whatever like Everything Everywhere all at Once or Russian Ark or Dune.
>>285173061stop watching anime then
>>285173537What about it?Good explosion animation sure but modern anime has good explosions as well.
>>285173061>Shitting on Nips>WebM from a movie>Fundamental lack of understanding of the animation making processThe trifecta of these threads.
>>285173061>literally nobody in Japan knows how to animate on cels anymoreFor starters, animators don't animate on cels. It's the inking/coloring and photography department's job to transfer the drawings to cels and then film them. Also, the cel aesthetic can be replicated digitally, but it simply isn't a popular style anymore. Still, this is a recent good mainstream example of replicating the cel look: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueB0oNajuEgBesides that, the comparison of animation cels with film is also not the same as cels are a much smaller niche use case than film. No supplier can justify staying afloat producing animation cels. If you wish to compare anime with other industries, at least do a like-for-like comparison with other animation industries, not live-action film-making. Everyone around the world moved past cels too, not just Japan. We're lucky Japan still keeps 2D animation around.
>>285173061>I fucking hate how anime as a medium is defined by cost cuttingOld anime was just as much defined by cost cutting as modern anime. That's pretty much exactly what made anime an industry rather than a few dedicated studios sticking to their narrow mainstream lane like Ghibli.
>>285173654>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueB0oNajuEg great argument, however i must ask this question - what even is this god awful singing? it's absolutely dreadful.
>>285173061>I fucking hate how anime as a medium is defined by cost cutting and tricks>it's mindboggling how little the jap bug people care about artistry these dayIt's been like that since the 60s bro, blame Tezuka. Things have changed for the better in past 20 years because tv anime has largely changed it's format from 50 episode series to shorter 24 or 12 episodes. Long stories are split into multiple seasons that way to ensure smoother production and better quality. Sure it can be annoying to wait, but if you genuinely care about the quality of the anime you watch, then waiting for the next season is much prefered.This also is a massive positive for manga adaptations. Back in the days you'd very, very rarely get complete adaptations for a manga. It'd be much more common for stuff to end up incomplete or get anime original endings. Sure these short OVAs that adapted parts of some manga might have been good in their own way, but they were literally never intented to be the full thing. Nowadays the studios care way more about delivering a full, faithful adaptation. This is mainly because Japanese realized they don't have to air the whole story in one going on tv to stay relevant because the internet exists and people won't forget an anime that quickly.Which brings me to another factor, tv rating. Nowadays that stuff doesn't mean shit. Back in the day you'd get GOAT classics cancled halfway through forcing the production to wrap everything up in just a couple more episodes (Yamato, Gundam). Kinda unhear of today, it's the opposite if anything. A1 realizes they need more time with Fate/Strange Fake? Delay it for a year. Bit annoying sure but good for the production and unimaginable in the old days.All of this has it's reason but saying they don't care is fucking dumb. They have always cared and always will care. People who don't care don't work on anime.
>>285173061>they completely abandoned cel animation just because it was more expensive and time consuming; meanwhile mediums like photography and cinema still use film and analog methods if the project or the vision calls for it.Awful comparison because a photographer needs exactly 1 camera. For a movie you need a couple more but once you have them the project is good to go. Movie production costs don't cap out because the cameras were to expensive.With cel animation the art material actually costs a lot. Every piece of paper, every cel, every bit of paint, the added labour time. It's dimensions apart.>Imagine that, literally nobody in Japan knows how to animate on cels anymoreThat's not quite true. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7dMpRMTSkU>I should be able to like cel and digital anime>noone can make stuff that looks as good as webmrel from fucking 1991What you're complaining about isn't an issue with digital. It's just a style used 30 years ago. The way people draw changes.Imagine watching anime in the 90s and complaining that none of it looks like Ashita no Joe or Devilman.>Like, digital /theoretically/ should be able to do anything analog can and moreThat's not just theoretical that's literally what's happening and you can see it if you open your eyes. There's so much variety in style, so many more ways artists express their ideas it's ridiculous. Cel was very restraining, there's a reason old anime all looks so similar compared to how varied the looks of modern anime are. Just compare Ufotable productions to something from Kyoani or Trigger or Shaft. And that's just very surface level comparisons but anyone should be able to tell how vastly different the works from these studios are. Anime production is incredibly complicated and there's countless details to get into.Digital anime quite literally does more things than cel. Wether you like these things depends on your subjective taste.
>>285173061>1991oh you mean they used the cost cutting trick of xeroxing the cels instead of hand inking?
>>285173784> Nowadays that stuff doesn't mean shit. Back in the day you'd get GOAT classics cancled halfway through forcing the production to wrap everything up in just a couple more episodes (Yamato, Gundam). Kinda unhear of todayThe swath of single season shows out there would probably disagree with this.>>285173945> With cel animation the art material actually costs a lot. Every piece of paper, every cel, every bit of paint, the added labour time. It's dimensions apart.Every cel animated show had the same expenses so why do some look better than others?Since digital only costs what a computer and tablet costs why have none of the savings over traditional cel expenses ever made it to the product.
>>285173061>anime as a medium is defined by cost cutting and tricks to make slaving your animators away 2% more efficient.>these daysAnimation has been defined by cost-cutting for nearly a century. Why use smear frames instead of cranking up the frame rate? Why use backgrounds with cels overlaid on them instead of fully redrawing each frame?
>>285174168>The swath of single season shows out there would probably disagree with this.I'm not talking about stuff that doesn't get a season 2.I'm talking about productions that get cut due to low ratings while they are still airing on tv so the studio has to end the series in the next couple episodes.>Every cel animated show had the same expenses so why do some look better than others?No they don't.>Since digital only costs what a computer and tablet costs why have none of the savings over traditional cel expenses ever made it to the product.They have. Overall production quality has improved significantly.You are simply blind to the cheap tricks they use in old anime and consider the shortcomings they have as charming without realizing it.
What's wrong with modern animation exactly? Looks fine on my machine.
>>285174472It doesn't look like the movie I saw a clip of on twitter but never watched.
>>285173061>they completely abandoned cel animation just because it was more expensive and time consumingCel wasn't some magical artform that increased something's artistic quality on the principle of just being cel. You complain about cutting corners but animators in the cel era cut corners all the damn time. This is most noticeable in long TV series but you see it too in more low-profile OVAs.They abandoned cel animation because it was more LIMITING; Read some of the interviews with animators and directors who've made seminal works in both the cel era and digital era and they'll tell you that cel had to go because not only was it too expensive, but it was too limiting. Look at fucking Overman King Gainer (digital) in 2002, with most of the same team who worked on Turn A Gundam (cel) in 1999; King Gainer runs circles around 99% of cel anime in terms of animation quality.
>>285173061>>285174976Also digital anime is completely capable of replicating the "cel anime" look. The reason why they don't do it outside of gimmicks and gags is because stylistic trends change.For the same reason a 90s anime doesn't look like a 70s anime, 2020s anime doesn't look like a 90s anime.
>>285174976King Gainer mentioned
>>285173061>getting mad about cost cutting TV shows meant to entertain you for free because of pirates.
This thread reeks of kimchi
>>285173061old anime board now
Film still exists. Cel animation involves film (or did in the past, there's no reason you couldn't use a digital camera to film cels) but it also involves the actual cels and working with them. With a movie or photography you just load the film and shoot, you don't need to do anything else like with cels. >>285174027It's hilarious how many old good new bad fags don't even know how cels work and they think the process in the 90s was the same as it was in the 30s.
so OP should complain about styles changing then? cause even accounting for all the stuff mentioned nothing recent looks the same or as good
>>285174168every digital show costs the same too. Surprise surprise, talented individuals, proper direction, good management, and studio working conditions are what make the difference. It's rarely about the cash.
