How is it a "deconstruction" exactly? It's just an example of a mecha show, pilots being fucked upx having reasons to fight, not wanting to fight, having psychological trauma etc are all part of the genre long before Eva
>>285242409People that call Evangelion a deconstruction have never watched anime giant robot show nor recognize most of the symbolism is taken from Ultraman because Anno thought Ultraman is fucking cool, which it is.
>evangelion deconstruction threadWhat is this, 2015?
>>285242409>But anyway, the original scenario [the Proposal?] is so shockingly close to the political motivation of the Aum Shinrikyo group, they fight against the upshot of the enemy, without knowing what the enemy really is. The angels change their form for example into pyramids, into shadows. I asked Anno about such abstract characteristics of the angels. He said that this reflects the feelings of his generation. For his generation the enemy is not political. It is also not definite. I mentioned to Anno that such abstract characteristics of the enemy are very close to the conception of Aum as enemy (eg. poison gas) which he admitted. He also admitted the similarity of Evangelion with Aum. Nevertheless it is too simple to conclude that Anno was sympathetic with Aum. He emphasizes the closedness and exclusiveness of this group. They lost any contact with reality. In Anno’s view this again is very close to the situation of anime fans. In fact Evangelion criticizes anime fans, and anime culture: it begins with ambiguous flirtations with conditions central to Aum, and ends with its critique as launched on the situation of anime fans.–“TOWARDS A CARTOGRAPHY OF JAPANESE ANIME: Hideaki Anno’s Evangelion. Interview with Azuma Hiroki”
>>285242482>Moreover, what appeared at the moment of its breakdown was the world of secondary or fan production. Specifically, what appeared in the twenty-fifth and twenty-sixth episodes of the TV series Evangelion was the world of secondary production as already in circulation through the Comiket (comic market) and personal computer communications. In other words, its creators made a parody of the parody in advance. And, in their rather wonderful way, they pieced together an autocritique of their impasse.>In other words, in his effort to see this grand narrative through to the end, its director Anno Hideaki ultimately could not help but criticize the character industry, in order to preserve his status as author, as a matter of self-defense. Anno flirted with the impossible task of constructing a grand narrative in the 1990s, but in the end it proved impossible, and all that remained was Ayanami Rei as a moe kyara, that is, as an affective figure. In this respect, I think that the scene in the twenty-sixth episode of Evangelion in which Ayanami Rei appears running with bread in her mouth marks a turning point in otaku culture, the moment when the Era of Fictions became the Era of Animals, when the Era of Fictional Histories gave way to the Era of Affective Response to Characters (kyara moe). This is why Evangelion remains such an important work.–“The Animalization of Otaku Culture” by Hiroki Azuma
>>285242482>>285242504Insists upon himself
>>285242504>Oshii: The other thing I thought of was about copying. Quite aptly, Anno declared himself a copy, saying, ‘I’m a copy of a copy’. But this is a ‘copy of a copy of a copy’. In the future, there will undoubtedly be ‘a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy’, and undoubtedly, this chain of copies will continue. Animation has also already entered this world, and there no longer as such things as originals.>Izubuchi: But the easy path that you mentioned earlier is a part of a world that has existed since a long time ago.>Oshii: That’s true, but in the case of Anno, he was aware of being ‘a copy of a copy’. In other words, that’s Anno’s stance. The very existence of self-consciousness, you could say it’s the position you’re standing in when creating something. Other directors aren’t even conscious that what they’re making are copies. Of course, I don’t mind at all if they are copies. We’ve been making movies for over 100 years, so new stories, new situations, and new scene allocations don’t exist. Everything references other things, and I’m fully aware of that. The issue is if you’re doing it intentionally and how conscious you are that what you’re making is a copy. These days, he fact that there is no controversy concerning copying in animation and that there’s no awareness of it is a big problem. In my mind, the greatest achievement of Eva is that it was self-aware of being a copy. That was a huge change, and it was a big turning point. That’s why I pay attention to Anno.–Mamoru Oshii & Yutaka Izubuchi, 2003-05-23>[Oshii] described most of Anno's works as "like an I-Novel (confessional novel about personal feelings)", so that no matter what he does he remains true to himself. The question is more about whether one can accept that approach or not.–Mamoru Oshii, 2021-04-20
THIS BAIT IS GETTING CRAZYLET'S ROCK
>>285242409Eva isn't a deconstruction (and neither is Madoka while we're at it). Anyone who has a basic knowledge of the word knows this.>Deconstruction (or deconstructionism) is an approach which pursues the meaning of a text to the point of exposing the supposed contradictions and internal oppositions upon which it is founded—supposedly showing that those foundations are irreducibly complex, unstable, or impossible. The only purpose this term has had, with the way anime fans have spun it, was a way for people to pretentiously elevate the significance of shows that are darker and different than what they may have expected. It shouldn't be treated with seriousness
Is there a single "deconstruction" anime that is an actual deconstruction? Because Eva and Madoka sure as fuck aren't and those two are called it the most
>>285243038Not as far as I can tellThe whole "deconstruction" thing seems to be a meme anyway, let's not even get into reconstruction
>>285242517Buttblasted cope
>>285243254If you genuinely say shit like "era of fictions becomes the era of animals" then you are a fucking pseudAt least BASED Tomino has the balls to just say what he means and more importantly, loves pussy
>>285243038>>285243189A deconstruction is a process that is applied on the text by the audience. Not the other way. You can do a deconstruction of any media or text. But that is external of the qualities of said text/media.
>>285243189I hope you're not using the term "reconstruction" seriously. TVTropes made that word up. It's complete bullshit.
>>285243334Actually thanks to Death of the Author, I can do whatever I want
>>285243337>gaogaigar was a direct response of a reconstruction of mecha in opposition to evas deconstruction
>>285243283Stop shaming Tomino fans with your eva rage.
>>285243378Tomino has literally gone on record to say he loves the must of older womens pussiesWhich makes him BASADO
>>285243393Yeah yeah sure lil bro.
>>285242409"Deconstruction" is just a fancy word that pseuds like to posture with, and in regards to Evangelion it's used to refer to when a work is written to convey "this fucking sucks actually" about a certain trope.
>>285243038Its just a term that gets thrown around. The most annoying thing about the people into Eva, Madoka, G-Gundam, etc is that they only watched that 1 show and then claim to be experts on the entire genre. They're the ones throwing around the "deconstruction" term.
>>285242409it's a deconstruction because Anno's mind deconstructed in the process of making it.
>>285243610And what about when intelligent people use it?
>>285244222Intelligent people won't use it
>>285243038No. People just took this idea of "breaking something down to its individual components to see how it works and then reconstructing it into something new" (see deconstructed cuisine for an example) and tried to apply it to something that cannot actually be broken down like that. But it sounds cool and exciting so the idea stuck around while never actually manifesting in anything meaningful and concrete, becoming nothing but a buzzword for pretentious people to use about shows they like.
>>285242409>pilots being fucked upx having reasons to fight, not wanting to fight, having psychological traumaThen why are they the pilots? Because the author said so. In a proper mecha, the pilots are determined, have a strong sense of duty, and the bravest of them are even willing to sacrifice their own lives for the sake of humanity, or at least the people they love.
>>285242445No, it's 2006.
>>285242409>How is it a "deconstruction" exactly?stop watching youtube video essay slop
>walks into room>says>EET VUZ WIDIN OF VELZETCHEE>doesn't elaborate>GOTTA RUN>leavesWhat the fuck did Kaji mean by this?
>>285244230You definitely belong on 4chan
I've seen alone more mecha than most of ""anime veterans"" anime in total and I'll always take the side of Evatards. gundamtroons are just that more obnoxious
>>285246399You've seen 200-400 days of mecha titles alone? Bullshit. I've bet you've never even seen a brave. As for me. I fantasize about Rei Ayanami everyday. I wish I could burn her nipples with hot tongs until she pees herself and i drink it.
>>285246399Have you got any genuine recs for someone that keeps trying to get into the genre via /m/s recommendations, but hates what they recommend? I can't stand the formulaic, poorly animated old MOTW shit they keep saying is amazing
>>285246533>formulaic, poorly animated old MOTW shitI got some bad news about mecha
>>285247150But there are really good ones I like, like Mazinkaiser SKL, Metal Skin Panic, Bubblegum Crisis, Macross Frontier
>>285244240>deconstructed cuisineThat is a different concept made years later of Derrida by a Spaniard chef and it has more in common with the architecture concept that the idea of Derrida that people try to shoehorn in their pseud reviews.
>>285242409desu mecha is boring as fuck I'm not gonna watch one to find out
>>285248213I really don't understand tards like this>this genre is boring>i know this because i don't watch it
>>285248295The answer is contained within the statement that made you ask the question: he's just lazyThinking things through takes time and effort, so he decided not to do that either
>>285248295I watched 3-4 episodes, ok? 3 episode rule
>>285242409Just watch thishttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxVD-ZBN_GM
>>285248697>did a lot of things differently>it did this by just doing the same things other mecha did before itWoah
>>285248729Shinjis characterization is literally 95% AmuroThe whole concept of "the pilots are le freaking out" was way, WAY older than Eva, and hell older than mecha even, it's a concept from war fiction
>>285244222that's usually in stuffy 200 page Ph.D. essays on The Cultural Impact of Arts and Literature on Modern Social Norms or whatever stuff they make up these days
>>285242482>>285242504>>285242533Anno (and Oshii) are not wrong when they critique lots of otaku media being copies of copies.Modern isekai are 100% "a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy". You could probably add a few levels to that and still be correct.Miyazaki often leveled the same criticism against the majority of otaku media as well.That said, the last few episodes fo NGE are just the result of running out of time and nothing else.They ran out of time and so they did the cheapest thing that someone might be fooled into being impressed by.Trying to turn it into some grand meta-commentary is just a sorry excuse. Meta is cheap after all.Meta was always extremely cheap that's why all the hack LN authors love to use it. Because they can't cope without it.
>>285249058Yeah Evangelion totally isn't just a copy of a copy and Anno definitely isn't a retarded hack LMAO
>>285248914I said intelligent people, not people going to college
It's mecha anime, but good.Crazy concept back in the day. Hell, even now.
>>285249116The lines about how he's supposedly different for being self-aware about Eva being copy of a copy just make me cringe hard
Zambot 3 is a better deconstruction of the mecha genre than EVA is.
>>285249163It's bad though SmartReally well done, in terms of direction and animation and the like But it's just not a good story
>>285249163Mecha has tons of good shows, but people are weirdly proud of their ignorance
It's a deconstruction because nobody cares about gundam or the other mecha shit.
Deconstruction is just when there's some explanation for the more fantastical elements of the story and the characters suffer, the latter being the most important. Eva, Madoka, Re:Zero you name it, they're all deconstructions because the characters suffer. Without the suffering you just say the show has great world building.
>>285249272I'd deconstruct Candy Ladys virginity
>>285249288>Suffering Brother noBrother you have to ask if she wants itBrother stop
>>285249116But its not?
>>285249705>no other anime ever did "dude le pilots are le sad" in mecha beforeEvafag...
>>285242533Oshii made an entire movie about this.
>>285242409It isn't, it's just pretentious. Bokurano is the actual deconstruction of mecha.
>>285249765fucking lmfao
>>285242533Link to the interviews please
Truly curious how the most pretentious tryhard faggots in anime like Anno and Oshii do interviews like that, so desperate to be seen as smart, but people who actually genuinely push the medium forward like Tomino are friendly, outgoing and honest
>>285249798I haven't seen the interviews, what are you talking about?
>>285249811Read up on some of Tominos interviewsHe's a genuinely interesting and actually pained guy, unlike Anno who just happened to get lucky by being a worker at Ghibli
>>285242409Watch less anime
>>285249827I mean Anno's interviews actually, I don't know what you were referring to by "do interviews like that"
>>285249870like this genuine word salad >>285242533>>285242504
>>285249798anno talked about his small dick in an interview though
>>285249728Yes, so what? Tomino did it all of the damn time, and nobody call him out on repeating himself.
>>285249922Tomino, unlike Anno, literally changed the art form I think he's earned the right to be derivative once or twice
>>285249827In what way is he pained? He didn't live through the war. His dad didn't beat him like Anno's did either.
Do evafags really? Like, genuinely, do they REALLY?
>>285242409It's deconstructing the super robot genre. How would a teen in real life react to the situation of having to pilot a mecha to save the world from giant hostile enemies as one of the earth's only saviours?What kind of person in real life would willingly send their child into this extremely dangerous situation? What would their relationship with their son be like in real life?What kind of people in real life would go along with this situation and how would they realistically react/cope with it?I won't say nothing ever deconstructed these elements of the genre before Eva but Eva deconstructs so much that it is right to call it a deconstruction of the genre as a whole. Gundam already deconstructed a lot of these elements back in the 70's and if you wanted to call that a deconstruction too I don't think you'd be wrong, although the premise is fairly different to the point it basically started a new genre, the "Real Robot" genre.I wouldn't consider something like Madoka a deconstruction simply because it goes so dark with the way its set up works that it barely resembles a typical magical girl show premise.
>>285242409Deconstruction means an entry I like in a genre I hate.
>>285249875Good LordThere's some genuinely interesting and even true observations in there but it's so much without any proper clarification or exploration of what he's trying to say that it's only just barely more than complete nonsense. I dare say the man isn't actually trying to say anything at all, he just wants to show off the things that he can (at least pretend to) claim some degree of education or expertise on.
>>285249958No, but it's misused that way so often that depending on who you're talking to that might as well be what it means
>>285249958They don't even have to like it. Normalfags don't see much genre fiction, then their first one isn't like they expected and they think it must be subversive but all the others will still be like the stereotype they hallucinated.
deconstructions dont existthats your answer and the actual truth OP
