Why are the demons the only things talked about in Frieren?
>>285306872midwits thinking they sound smartalso muh media literacy
>>285306915You mean for people for the way they're depicted or against it?
>>285306872The majority of the last 15 years has been about demon simping (even a show called demon slayer does it), the Amazon "orcs are people too" type trope. And then Frieren comes along and says, "just kill them". It was refreshing. Though I only talk about Himmel usually. I watch Frieren for the emotional development of the MC not for le demons.
Because the world and all the characters are exceedingly bland. Demons are the only thing that stand out.
>>285307368But the problem is that Frieren goes about it incredibly poorly. The demons as depicted have all the intelligence and self control to be able to change their beliefs and simply not be evil anymore, but no explanation is offered as to why they can't.
>>285307430That sounds like something a demon sympathizer would say. Have you ever heard about the spell Zoltraak before? Come over here...
>>285307430retard
>>285306872The real demon is man.
>>285307430No they aren't They are depicted as intelligent, and they are depicted as having some degree of self control, but that doesn't mean they are capable of changeThe fact that you think those are inherently related shows you misunderstand demons: their intelligence is completely different from that of a human, and the only reason they don't seem utterly alien is they're built to mimic humanity
>>285307430What belief is there to change? They're predators eating their prey. We're food to them. They use that intelligence and self control to eat people in ways that guarantees as little pain or risk to themselves as possible, they don't need to align their beliefs to what we do and see because we're walking meals.You wouldn't try to align yourself with your burger any further than aligning it to your mouth, and trying to follow that line of thinking is silly. That is how they see dealing with humans.
>>285306872anons also like to talk about Frieren's feet, Ubel's pits, and Fern's fat tits
She has chud joosperging but for demons
>>285306872muh racism is all muttmericans can fathom
>>285306872>Thought every demon looked like Qual and was just using illusion magic to trick humans>No their all just pretty now
>>285307828There are a lot of more monsterous demons
>>285306872>>285307763People also talk about Stark's tiny penis.
>>285307909That barely even counts as talking
>>285307430Demons can't stop preying on humans anymore than humans can stop going to war with each other. Nature can't be defeated.
>>285306872gooners trying to justify themselves
>>285307633They're sentient, intelligent, morally capable, given that they understand human morality and strictly adhere to their own and they know what human morality is. They should have zero trouble changing their beliefs. They're intelligent enough to come up with complex theories on magic. It's absolutely ridiculous writing. >>285307685>They're predators eating their prey. We're food to them.It's established that they don't even have to eat people to survive. Frieren calls this an excuse when a demon says that's why they killed someone. There's no reason then why they should still have to see us as a food source when they don't even need to do it to begin with. Never once is it even depicted as some insatiable urge they can't overcome. Macht didn't kill a single person for fifty years. They clearly have self control over their own actions.
>>285307977Most humans don't engage in war, though.
>>285306872Pet Linie.Hug Linie.
>>285308016And if you actually paid attention you should know why he returned to killing He is a fundamentally alien thingEven if he did eventually understand humans like he wanted to, he would not, could not, actually become like usBecause for all that intelligence, he will always be a demon And demons do not regret, they do not hate, and they do not mourn the deadAnd no matter how long he pretended to be a creature that does, the urge would come back and he would have no reason to even want to resist it
>>285306872>stark's penis>fern's funbags>that green haired chick whose power is based on being retardeda lot of things get talked about in this show
>>285308200>Because they're just demons and evilThat's the problem. That's all the explanation that the series gives. Even though multiple other characters and races are able to "overcome their nature" and "do the impossible", demons aren't able to for a reason that's never explained. It also contradicts and fucks up the themes of the show. The show is all about cherishing bonds with other people and their own experiences, but with demons it just says "fuck them, they're demons" and ruins that completely.
>>285308277Please try to understand what I'm saying, because that's an incredibly shallow reading If you're gonna attack it on a thematic level, the demons are a dark reflection of people who are without bonds and do not value them or even have a reason why they would want them They are what Frieren and Serie mistakenly believed themselves to be, creatures that don't need bonds and don't understand what their significance is Serie is even rather demonic in her treatment of magic, she views it as something valuable for the power it has to kill, and for little else than that she thinks it's cool, and yet in a way that she can't wrap her head around she still remembers all her students and their favorite spells because despite her insistence otherwise she is not a demon
>>285306872because muh real life analogies. any kind of media just going and saying yeah these completely intelligent species are fucking scum of the earth incapable of change so just murk them all. it's essentially kneejerk reaction from decades of indoctrination.
>>285308450>If you're gonna attack it on a thematic level, the demons are a dark reflection of people who are without bonds and do not value them or even have a reason why they would want themThat still doesn't make sense from a thematic standpoint. The series is all about trying to form bonds with others, or being able to understand their experiences. Having a group of creatures being fundamentally incapable of bonds goes completely against that. Also, the demons clearly care about bonds.Soltair said that she hated the demon king's war because it killed her friends.
I simp for demon Nino. Demon Nino did nothing wrong
>>285306872Because is a show about nothing and demons are the only seemingly interesting thing about it.
>>285308765The only thing propping this series up is people using it as a retarded political compass test. Same thing people did with Starship troopers.
Every single time we have this thread, I keep seeing this strawman argument about how demon fans only exist because some idiots can't comprehend that they're predators and I'm really not understanding how you can believe that. People like Aura and Macht and the others because they're fascinating. It's not solely about feeling sorry for them.Does it make you feel better to imagine that anyone who disagrees with you is just hopelessly delusional?
>>285306872because watching them get killed was the most entertaining part about that anime
>>285309289Where are you seeing that argument?
>>285309914Why right here, in this very thread.
>>285309953Obviously I'm asking because I don't see it
>>285307430Anon,just assume demons are jews and it makes perfect sense
>>285306872Frieren is racist.
>>285307368>The majority of the last 15 years has been about demon simping (even a show called demon slayer does it)I don't get what the issue with this is. Demon's aren't real, you can't "simp" for them in the first place.
>>285308016Anon the entire point of Macht was thag he was waiting for 50 years to create links with the people of the city, his deal with the human, was to help him in exchange for Macht do his experiment which was ... turn everybody he cared for into gold and see if doing that made him feel bad, it didnt, which he responds with "i will just try it again, maybe it will work on the next city"
Not the OP, I don't really have an strong opinions on Frieren's demons and how they interact with the other races. But I am confused about how demons are supposed to treat each other. Do they care about each other? Fight amongst themselves? Reproduce by fucking? That's what I find is lacking in information so far.
>>285306872Only important demon
>>285307368>Demons are evil, so let's simp for lame-ass elves insteadDumbass
>>285306872Demons are cooler than elvesSimple as.
>>285308016>Intelligence has to overwrite that lust for human meat that demons feelNo it does not
>>285307430Frieren's demons aren't meant to be some profound analysis of evil or whatever, they are meant to simple be>A foil to Frieren, as powerful immortal magical users>Generic baddiesHonestly, Frieren isn't that well written, and it blows its main emotional core fairly quick before fully degenerating into insipid narou slop.
>>285311044It's Jewish subversion tricks. Good is bad, bad is good, that way all the poor kiddies who grow up on TV instead of parental instruction see it and go: oh, the bad guys are sympathetic! Gotta feel for them. BUT NOT NAZIS! ALWAYS BAD!That is why every monster and evil is misunderstood from the Evil Empire all the way to the vampire, but Nazis have stood the test of time and were always 100% certified evil in media. GS & Frieren is a return to norm of black and white evil demons, plus demon hating, and oh boy does that piss everyone off who has nothing but the above good=bad propaganda shoved up their asses into their brains. People freaked out just as much at Goblin Slayer's goblin rape of women. Muh gobbo wouldn't do that and shit. See the 3-4 slime isekai seasons as pro-goblin media predating GS. The fact that demons are predators of humanity is the hardest thing for these midwits to wrap their heads around. They can't get that one race has been purpose bred to trick and consume another. It straight up can't compute, because it causes massive cognitive dissonance thanks to the above programming.
>>285311327>Goblin SlayerOn second thought, the Jews aren't that bad after all.
So is this shit 10 episodes or not?
>>285308277>That's the problem. That's all the explanation that the series gives. Not a Problem. It is all the series needs>Even though multiple other characters and races are able to "overcome their nature" and "do the impossible", demons aren't able to for a reason that's never explainedNope. Humans, dwarfs and elves never change their nature. Himmel becomes a real hero with a fake hero sword but he never changes his humanity. The show often adresses the problem how different elves perceive time compared to dwarves and how Frieren failed to understand the feelings of her comrades and her willingness to try and understand people who are close to her because she cried waterfalls when the alpha who imprinted her died. She felt emotions and wanted to change because of that. Elves used to live in villages in the old times. Demons don't have societies. They were not loyal to the king. They didn't care for their race when the threat didn't affect them personally. Macht was just curious Mengele style and betrayed for the purpose of feeling guilt but failed. The show even acknowledges that magic is in demon's nature to the point that even elves can't learn to fly as effortlessly as them because Nature. You just feel insulted because our culture likes the believe we could overcome our dna, death and laws of nature because we want something
>>285311050You're not addressing the point. The fact that he could stop killing people for fifty years, and did so rather easily because he wanted to, proves that he has all the self control necessary to stop killing people. And so do all the other demons.
>>285308277It probably easier for you to understand it if it is like trying to tame a wild wolf that can talk. Maybe you can do it for a while, but sooner or later, it will attack or eat you or do something you think would be treacherous, but it is simply just being a wild wolf. It will eat you when hungry and will attack you for any slight in perceive in their own rules. Even dogs do this to people and they are domesticated. Maybe with enough time and dedication and years of experiments, someone could domesticate demons too
>>285308576>because it killed her friends.Need citation on that. I think I know which Panel in the Manga you mean. It is in the time travel Arc. I want a japanese Person who confirms she said friends in the original
>>285311416>So is this shit 10 episodes or not?Season 2 yes
>>285311155Seethe Devil. Your people will continue to be smote in Frieren. Zoltraak bitch.
>>285311327
>>285311570anon he killed a bunch of people during those 50 years, the people he killed where chosen Gluck, the "he is under control" was to keep people of the city not freaking out about having a demon living with them, reread the chapters again and stop being a complete retard.
>>285311789Yeah yeah, let's see what sick combos your pussy ass elves can do.
>>285306872Because they're attractive. If they're ugly, no-one would give a shit.
>>285311867This is a big thing in the pathfinder rpg setting. All the hot slutty female demons turned out to be redeemable and in some cases good all along compared to the misogynistic male chauvinist churches and good gods. The male demons are still just evil demons. It's like a parody of what this thread's topic is about, the main writer is an out of touch boomer coomer pushing his magical realm coomfiction. Wild.
>>285311930Based.
>>285311581Wild beasts are not intelligent and able to communicate with other species. Wild beasts do not understand human morality or strictly adhere to their own. Wild beasts do not possess all the components necessary to adopt human morals. Demons do. They are incomparable to animals.
>>285311867correct no one gives a shit about you because you're ugly as sin
>>285311970Based? Based?! Are you telling me it's based to forgive an evil demon slut who massacred untold millions of innocent people until she got bored and changed her mind? Just because she's hot? And that anyone against accepting her "oops, my bad, tee-hee!" apology is just a misogynist pig? Is that what you're saying?
>>285307430The demons are monsters. They're not born. They're generated by some as of yet revealed source. When they die they become mana.They exist to devour prey. That's what monsters do in freirens world.Also, some have TRIED to adapt. It doesn't work because they're fundamentally different beings.
>>285312190>>285307633>>285307685Cats were predators with no mind for accepting humans... until we domesticated them. And domestic cats aren't even that different from wild cats. The "they're just predators it's in their nature" argument is against what actual predators are like. If you can domesticate a cat you can domesticate a demon.
>>285312255And, they're not even like demons. They're acting, talking and thinking like people even with no people around. They're clearly far smarter and more sentient than any animal.
>>285312181She's especially weird since Noctiula didn't especially WANT to be redeemed.
>>285312347If I captured Linie alive and shoved her into a cage and only fed her when she acted nice to me and beat her if she acted aggressively and never even gave her the opportunity to attack me. And then I bred her and killed off all the demon spawn that were aggressive and repeated this for generations, we could have a whole new species of human friendly demons easily.
>>285307368Read actually good manga where Demon is actually evil then
>>285312534wasn't the demon going to give everyone eternal happiness in the end?
>>285312534Not evil, human morality is non-aplicable to it. Same as Galactus.
>>285312190That's how the show explains it, but it the way the demons act contradict it. A "wild beast" would never offer mercy to a weak enemy, yet Lugner does it for Stark twice.
>>285312181Yes. That's precisely what I'm saying.
I wish all girls had fucked up eyes
>>285312596It was going to put everyone into the fantasy equivalent of closed off box jacked to a serotonin IV for eternity so it could nibble off people. It wasn't deliberately malicious but it also did absolutely zero fucks about anyone well being.
>>285312780Well... according to utilitarianism that is the ultimate good
>>285312534My beloved Izutsumi...
>>285311044>even a show called demon slayereven a show mistranslated as demon slayer
>>285307430Stop falling for the same tired old bait over and over again, /a/. When you see posts like this just call the poster retarded and move on.
>>285313230Calling posts you don't like bait is absurdly pathetic.
>>285306872People got tired from neverending grey morale and subvertive postmodern narratives that only trick you. Frieren in pretty honest about the existential threats
>>285310015Are you Luffy?
>>285312181>Just because she's hot?It do be like that, yes.
DictionaryDefinitions from Oxford Languages · Learn moreSis·y·phe·an/ˌsisəˈfēən/adjective1. denoting or relating to a task that can never be completed."the pursuit of perfection is a Sisyphean task"2. participating in Frieren threads
>>285306872Fuck that guy is pretty
>>285313279Calling posts you don't like absurdly pathetic is very small of you. If you want to keep arguing keep in mind I masturbate to diaper porn and piss so you'd be putting yourself on that same level intellectually if you engage with me. The choice is yours.
>>285307430Get better material spammer autist.Also kill all Demons because Demons are evil monsters built for killing.
>>285313304>honesthonestly retarded kek
>>285313378Like you! Ohohoho!
>>285313279Retard.
>>285313335>>285313375>>285313230It's honestly really pathetic that you people can't refute any of my arguments and instead resort to calling them spam every time you see them. The reality is that I'm right and that the Frieren fanbase is so sycophantic and retarded that they can't see the obvious writing problems in this series.
>>285313440Retard
>>285313375Take your best shot.
>>285313440Elfcucks have no taste. What do you expect?
>>285313498>isn't a demon>kills demons in droves himselfretard
>>285313525>The son of a legendary demon isn't a demon
>>285313549Correct. He's a half breed. It's a major plot point, his human nature from his mother that is. Because you know, devils never cry.
>>285313639Except there are actual good demons in the series like Trish, Lucia, and the glasses guy from the anime.
You can't kill ALL demons because demons are ultimately a reflection of the evil in man's heart.
>>285313315^the actual reason why people come up with rube goldberg machine esque moral arguments as to why frieren should give the demons a chance
>>285313768I notice you have changed your argument without admitting you were wrong on your original point. Would you like to do that or will I cease replying because you're a disingenuous faggot who both knows nothing and believes nothing?
>>285313804it's just lazy writing to say all things are good or bad. It's why we've developed past that.
>>285313856Are there good fascists and racists? Perhaps they are all just morally confused people who can be peacefully and non-violently convinced they are wrong if people just give them a chance?
>>285306872are you sure? it was 90 percent about remembering WWHD(What Would Himmel Do)?it's the living bible of Himmel the Hero of Incels.
>>285313908yes? That isn't the gotcha you think it is. They're still humans at the end of the day.
>>285313846Half-breeds still count, dumbass. Now stop being an elfcuck.>disingenuous faggot who knows nothing and believes nothinglmao, seething because not everyone buys into your moralfaggotry
>>285313924So you're saying you're a fascist then.
>>285312255Cats still hunt birds and mice. Plus they don't hunt Humans and never did. What Point are you trying to make?
>>285313942And are birds and mice humans? And a tiger would never try to kill a human? The point is that the biological background of a creature can change, especially when that creature is capable of intelligent thought. What point are YOU trying to make?
>>285313935>DMC focuses greatly on Dante and Virgil's half-breed status>Nero's story doubles down on this, emphasizing that it's the human side that makes them all so much stronger>that their humanity is their defining aspect, not their devil sideI dear say chaps, I don't think this little queer has played any DMC before in his life!
>>285313911https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ng5UClpJ5w
>>285313978Himmel would have killed all the tiger demons, because the messiah Frieren showed him the way.
>>285313108>censored feetfucking coward
>>285313440If you make the same post over and over to the point where you're recognizable on an anonymous site it is spam. You see this type of autistic obsessive niche spam all over the site with different lolcow esque autistic retards. What is even your end goal with these threads? Is it to countersignal a popular anime?
>>285307430it did. thus spoketh Kireicake
>>285313978Domestic cats aren't tamed Tiger Descendants. It is not clever to try to keep a Tiger and might backfire Bad. Ask Siegfried and Roy
>>285314043I'll wait until you have an argument against anything I said. You know you don't, so you have to pretend like nothing I said has any merit.
>>285314073and yet they descend from a common ancestor...
>>285313989Played'em all.Doesn't change that they're still demons
>>285312534>Demon is actually evil thenthe DungDemon in DungMeshi seems like the personification of magic gaining sentience and then gaining a hunger for emotions of the living.it's not evil, it's a force of nature. it just is.
>>285314079But I did have an argument against your statement that your thread isn't spam and you avoided countering it
>>285314073If you want a more direct "horrible evil beast turned man's best friend" look no further than the wolf which are direct descendants to grey wolves. You telling me a wolf never ate a human being?
>>285314043You still keep taking the bait.
>>285314115dog* I mean
>>285306872Loaded question. You defend your position that it's only the demons being talked about.
>>285314005it was painful to listen to that burger pronunciation
>>285314136What else is discussed?
>>285314176Ubel's armpits.
>>285314176Usually it's either demons being one note villains, the magic system which shifted from a classic mana = magical ability system to a bullshit imagination based system, or the general feel of the show falling apart a little bit after introducing stark.
>>285306872Because nothing else fucking happens! >>285307398Is there a single character in this whole series that doesn't have the same tired cadence? I swear it's like every single of them basically just stands around with a dull expression till they go "eh"
>>285314218that's what the director asks them to do in the end, but you know the hero himmel must have posed many hours and done dozens of retakes whenever he could
>>285314085Humans and baboons have the same ancestor. Wanna have a cup of tea with one. What do Common ancestors prove. Couldn't be applied to frieren demons even as they have different ancestors.>>285314115>You telling me a wolf never ate a human being?You telling me a dog would never eat a human being?
>>285314263>that's what the director asks them to do in the end,It's not any different in the manga
>>285314287You're legitimately brain dead if you think a wolf and a dog are even close to the same threat level. I've actually never even heard of someone actually being killed by a dog, they've always been attacked at most.
>>285314115>You telling me a wolf never ate a human being?>>285314287A wolf or a dog wouldn't have a conversation about things with the human before hand. This is the problem. It's a matter of intelligence.
>>285314298the characters anon. sub it for 'the author' in the manga
>>285314287Common ancestors prove that a ferocious predator (ancestors of cats) could change into a more docile creature like the domesticated cat. Their ancestor must have changed for them to be so different.
>>285312667They address this.He doesn't view him as a threat at all, and he's cautious.A mix of arrogance and strategy.He changes his tune when he starts having trouble.Irl, it's like a lion and a mouse. The mouse is insignificant and merits no effort
>>285314500I'm pretty sure a lion would eat a mouse laying at its feet
>>285314309https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_StatesAlso wolves don't consider Humans their natural prey and mostly attack because rabies (like many of the dogs) so what does have this to do with frieren demons who would consider us prey?>>285314322Which brings us back to the problem at hand. Can intelligence overcome the drive of demons to snack a human and what might their incentive be to form a pact?
>>285314405How are Cats less ferocious? Feral cats have driven numerous species to extinction globally, particularly on islands, with Australia being heavily impacted, losing over 20 mammal species like the Pig-footed Bandicoot and Lesser Bilby, alongside birds like the Macquarie Island Parakeet. Globally, cats have contributed to at least 40 bird, 21 mammal, and 2 reptile extinctions, preying on vulnerable, naive island species that lack predator defense, making them a major threat to biodiversity worldwide.
>>285314593Animals can learn basic cause and effect. You can train a dog not to bite. You see the shit crows can get done? Even if they don't care for the emotional aspect of it the fact that eating humans can in turn lead to their own demise they should be able to process that and not be so open about it.
>>285314655Demons are smart enough to come up with complex theories on magic. How the fuck are they not smart enough to realize that hunting humans will only make them go extinct?
>>285314653you really think a cat is more ferocious than a lion or a tiger or their common ancestor? The reason that cats kill so many birds is because humans spread them everywhere.
>>285314681This is by far the biggest issue with "all demons are evil" thing. If such a species existed and was hunted, by the heroes for instance, into near extinction they would almost certainly switch to an alternative prey source.
>>285312821Utilitarianism doesn't even know how to figure out what good is
>>285314824Honestly what's even the difference between what the demon wanted to do with people and any version of "heaven" you think of? They both give you eternal bliss right?
>>285314838Actually, no Heaven is not eternal bliss
>>285314865what the fuck is heaven then?
>>285314655>You can train a dog not to biteYou could probably catch all demons and condition them. But we took a couple of breeding cycles for dogs to become that manageable. Learning a couple of skills doesn't equal starting to work in a society. Have you seen Keras? They are smart as fuck and can deconstruct cars together because they live that way. It is torture to keep parrots all alone. It is btw torture to keep humans alone for long times before our nature demands of us to live at least in small groups. Demons are different from that. From what WE learned even elves can be alone for "long times" but centuries are like five minutes to them. Our tiny little human brain can't comprehend. To get the demons to assimilate you would need to convince them they would die otherwise and no trickery and mass destruction (which demons are clearly capable of) could have them Change that. They would naturally try to do some coup d'etat or something like that to get out of that Bad state. I mean look at the Mana levels of regular Humans. No demon respects that. And you can't mathematically prove ethics to them. Btw humans would definitely lose their shit when around demons as soon as the first incidents happen and the civil war would start.
>>285314894>But we took a couple of breeding cycles for dogs to become that manageable. basically we need to do>>285312500
>>285314873heaven in which religion kek.it's a question for >>>/lit/ because it's all fiction anyway
>>285314686>Bu-but humans made them do it. Cats didn't even do shitHow would you define "more ferocious" by the way. So yeah tigers and lions are bigger. It would be news to me that they would play with their prey though. Domestic cats do that. Did we force them to do this too?
>>285314067maybe if she said "my sick mother..." frieren would've spared her and donated some coin instead
>>285314873For lack of a better description, fulfillment The completion of everything you strive for, perfected ability to pursue and enjoy all the things that are meaningful Heaven isn't eternity on drugs It's a long hard day of work that you are proud to have done, good times with family and friends that love you dearly, and a good night's sleep that leaves you fully rested and energized
>>285314714Demons show intelligence but they are also extremely proud. Even if they would notice the demons around them might have gone extinct would that make them change their ways? Or would they think they are the more powerful exceptions? If we are trying to humanize the demons let me ask you: would we Change our ways to avoid going extinct? Do we act rational at all Times? That demons act like psychopaths doesn't mean they are perfect machines that get Input in and put output out without any emotion. They have some. Just not any to work in a society. Also how would they notice their fellow demons are gone. They don't have companions if no demon king forces them to cooperate and even then it is shown some prefer to ignore orders
>>285315020>It's a long hard day of work that you are proud to have done, good times with family and friends that love you dearly, and a good night's sleep that leaves you fully rested and energizedIf this feeling is directly beamed into your mind for eternity how is it different?
>>285315087If 90+% of all humans on earth went extinct I would think the remaining 10% would try to avoid whatever those 90% did to get killed off. If we're talking about species as well, the less aggressive demons would be less likely to be killed by the heroes and would therefore survive the slaughter which would compound over generations until demons were docile towards humans.
>>285315161It's not real Your body might not notice, your brain chemistry might treat it exactly the same But you can tell
>>285315189That seems like a massive cope
>>285315197Thinking that all you need is to just cook your brain with endless happy chemicals sounds like massive cope to me
>>285314922So we don't want to coexist with demons but to hunt them down, put them into cages, make them go extinct as the species they are now and replace them with a new one. The wet dream of slave owners. Why do we want to have all that instead of just having them go extinct? Seems more humane to me. And I think you have a wrong idea how the whole domestication process worked. The animals we keep around never hunted US down at any level. The ancestor of the house cat was rather tiny and most likely chose to stay close to us because there were mice around our corn and stuff and we liked that the cat "defended" our stuff. Win win situation. We didn't strongarm sabertigers until they meowed
>>285315228wolves
>>285315228Is killing every being of a species off humane? Domesticating into coexistence seems more humane to me.
>>285307368>Even a show called demon slayer does itDespite the name, those are vampires and conceptually, being infected and forced into vampirism is a completely different concept from being born an evil monster.
>>285315187>f 90+% of all humans on earth went extinct I would think the remaining 10% would try to avoid whatever those 90% did to get killed off. If we're talking about species as well, the less aggressive demons would be less likely to be killed by the heroes and would therefore survive the slaughter which would compound over generations until demons were docile towards humans.I think if 90% of humans died the remaining 10% would mostly be scared shitless and become turbo religious towards their current god or abandon current god and form some new cult that can offer them the feel of being save. In the current Frieren Manga no hero would be right for the job though. Even Frieren wouldn't have defeated Solitär without the help of Fern. Many demons died because of their own arrogance so would they be able to accept defeat If they are too arrogant to see it coming? The only time demons acknowledged a strong opponent their choice was to gang up on them and not changing their ways. Btw they have already cried wolves to many times to still be believable
>>285312255>until we domesticated themwe didn'tcats basically domesticated themselvesthey went, "you don't want rodents, we don't want to be cold, let's live together"it's a cooperation>>285314983>So yeah tigers and lions are bigger. It would be news to me that they would play with their prey though.it would surprise me if they didn'tthere's really not much difference besides sizewe didn't breed cats to be small or some nonsense like thatthe common breeds are pretty much how nature made themalso even a "domesticated" cat wants to kill stuff, it's just a matter of lack of experience and opportunity
>>285315197>>285315224I feel you are all coping and aren't really real
>>285315398So why aren't there demon subspecies that don't target humans? We should populate that species.
>>285315254Wolves see us as natural prey? Give a source other than fairytales
>>285315394I really don't think any species can "cry wolf too many times"
>>285315288Breeding it out of existence is not keeping it around. I think you have to check how evolution works
>>285315443https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beast_of_G%C3%A9vaudan?something
>>285315457You really have no concept of how arbitrary the idea of species even is.
>>285315161>If this feeling is directly beamed into your mind for eternity how is it different?NTA and I don't agree with his secular Christianity nonsense, but the feeling of bliss that comes from becoming one with the Absolute and the true, unconditioned reality should be qualitatively different to a demon injecting you with a beam that changes your brain chemistry.
>>285315478if they fuck, there have to be children from it. loose rule for a species.
>>285315496EXTREMELY loose rule for a species doesn't even pan out for things like mules, the females can sometimes be fertile.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species
>>285315398>it would surprise me if they didn't>there's really not much difference besides sizeOk complete clownery. I really should have gone too bed way earlier. Good night everyone
>>285315496besides, why is it more humane to kill them all into extinction rather than domesticate them into a different species?
>>285315553it's not. maybe ningens are just too weak to risk it and prefer to be safe. an evil they're willing to commit and so on.
>>285315553>domesticateEquates to lobotomization and misery.
>>285315660You would say that about dogs?
>>285315433how the fuck do you think species workit's not dnd, they don't have every possible variant of elves so your civilization can pick the model it likesthere isn't a non-murderous version and that's itinvest 500 years into demon eugenics and maybe you'll get something
>>285315695speciation occurs when a niche is available to fill it. If every group of demons was after human meat exclusively then there would absolutely be an advantage for going after cows or goats instead.
>>285315673100%
>>285315726alright subhuman
>>285315548https://youtube.com/watch?v=JWzeEHlNu7k
>>285315734>subhumanAnd dogs with their myriad of health issues, neotenic features, lower overall intelligence, and almost child-like dependency on their human owners aren't mere sub-wolves?
>>285313856>It's lazy writing not writing everything the same way all other authors do nowadays, it'd be better to have "humans 2.0 but with horns" instead of having a fantasy creature that we can never relate to because the way they work is fundamentally different.Wow.
>>285315788you really out here saying shit about dogs? We literally evolved with them. kys
>>285315828You love your dog because its a functionally retarded version of a predator.
>>285315860you would prefer the predator?
Jesus this thread got even worse.
>>285315722clearly the cow whisperer demons didn't survivetherefore the only niche that makes them thrive is hunting humansalso>bringing up evolution in fantasy settingnot that it invalidates your argument, but what is it about these demons that triggers people to complain about ecosystemsyou don't hear fags saying dragons are stupid because they haven't been selectively bred for pacifism
>>285315814Yes. It's extremely simple to write one note bad guys whose bad actions can simply be explained away as being by nature.
>>285315899>you don't hear fags saying dragons are stupid because they haven't been selectively bred for pacifismYou haven't been around enough. We also have these types of debates about dragons
>>285315900Simple and lazy are not the same thing
>>285315919...sure but it sure as hell takes less effort to write a simple story
>>285315916The ones saying it had a concerningly large number of guys who want to fuck dragons, I'm sure
>>285315941It was more about the phylogeny of dragons, but you really wouldn't want a pet dragon?
>>285315938If you don't care about it being good
>>285315956I'm sure it'd be just another stupid reptile Which is to say, yes, I absolutely would, but not nearly enough to cry about the evils of wiping out the giant super predators that eat all our livestock and also us
>>285315981sucks to be you... I'll be off taming dragons like a real nord
>>285315900The arc of the demon butler is more interesting and complex than all f the supposedly "complicate an complex" sympathetic ambiguius villain slop that gets pushed down our throats.Even simple concepts can be better than any "complex" modern clichés if the story is creative and told well. There's tragedy in having a relationship with a being that will never understand you fully and that you can never fully bridge the gap with, because of nature, despite how well you can communicate.
>>285315999And that relationship couldn't be recreated in any more complex environment? Say with someone who was born in a different environment with a different upringing?
>>285316082tbf insects are basically robots that follow their instinct like programming. Aint a thought in that head.
>>285315992I liked How to Train Your Dragon too, but it really was stupid that literally every dragon species could with relative ease be turned into a pet without even requiring you to raise them from birth
i like demons
>>285316024Not sure if I understand the point of the question, did you read the arc I'm refering to?
>>285316129Do demons have a sex drive?
>>285316148yes, they just don't raise their kids
>>285316158Well if they look the same as humans do demons ever fall in love with humans?
>>285306872Just a reminder that the little demon girl just wanted to live in peace and that anything bad that happened was Frieren responsiblity.
>>285316168Demons don't fall in love
>>285316196well do they ever get attracted to humans?
>>285316206In the "I'm going to kill and eat that" sense, I suppose. They only look like pretty girls, inside they are great white sharks and find your attraction to them convenient at best.
>>285316168Since they are capable of forming friendships, it shouldn't be impossible for them to fall in love
>>285316304I don't know if their friendships are quite real either
>>285316206I don't think humans have enough mana for a demon to find them sexy
>>285316206Yes, but only a few demons seek human companionship
>>285306872because they're the only thing good in frieren everything else is boring
Have sex with consent, if they attack or trying to kill you, rape them until they evaporate out of self-defence.They evaporate for no reason, so give them a reason they evaporate.
>>285316304>Since they are capable of forming friendshipsCitation required
>>285316799read manga
>>285307430It's people like you make Frieren's demons one of the most smartly written fantasy creature ever made. The show basically states that they're lliterally emotional Mimics, and their deception goes so deep to affect not only their universe, but the real life as well (at least the """media literacy"""" clowns that is). That's some meta shit right there.
>>285316817No
>>285316845>she have boobs I can save herAffects many, it seems.
>>285307430>>285308016demon hands typed this post
>>285316817Already did
>>285307828Qual doesn't need to be pretty to kill humans because he basically invented a gun
>>285306872Linie sex
>>285307430It's their religion, and the world was promised to them so many thousands of years ago. Please understand.
>>285316906Linie will love you if you keep supplying her with frilly dresses
>>285317359Qual is also a lot more honest, not even pretending to try to reason with Frieren He must be a type of demon that failed at human mimicry eons ago and specked all the evolution points into intelligence and gathering information to make up for it
>>285307430>But the problem is that Frieren goes about it incredibly poorly. The demons as depicted have all the intelligence and self control to be able to change their beliefs and simply not be evil anymore, but no explanation is offered as to why they can't.This. They are just Buffyverse vampires who are automatically evil predators, but played seriously instead of treating them as either speed bumps or pets (chipped Spike, Harmony).
How many times are you going to make this same fucking thread?
>>285317615>Buffyversekys now >>285316917
>>285307018>midwits thinking they sound smartfor>also muh media literacyagainst
this anime really lives rent free in alot of peoples minds 2 years after it aired and i love it.
>>285317729~3 more years
>>285316741>>285316304>>285316129mating press
>>285307430>The demons as depicted have all the intelligence The thing is that Demons aren't even remotely as intelligent as they appear to be on the surface. They're depicted wearing sackcloth as children, which implies that as adults they all wear the clothes of people they've killed because otherwise how would they get them? Unlikely to make them themselves or buy them.If they were truly intelligent, Flamme, Frieren, and Fern wouldn't have had such an easy time hustling them with their mana repression trick.If they were truly intelligent, then they would have collectively realized that they're an endangered species and would've either collaborated more closely with one another post demon king OR legitimately tried to find a peaceful compromise with the ascendant humanity.They really are just dumb and dangerous animals, and though people might compare them to something like grizzly bears or lions, even those kind of animals can learn to stay the everloving fuck away from humans after we've killed them enough times. What does that tell you about how smart they are?
>>285317615Doesn't Buffy have protagonists fucking vampires on the regular, or am I just misremembering stuff about a show I never watched? If so, no the demons are not like that
>>285317797Even Buffy had Angel and the afformentioned Spike.Frieren somehow manages to be worse than Wheddonshit.
>>285316030Elfcuck
>>285316129Mee too
>>285307368>15 yearsYu Yu Hakusho's over 30 years and it has entire arcs simping for demons and saying even the most evil demons are still people
>>285311327GS and Frieren is fundamentally different in that goblins are shown as described in universe, when Frieren demons are described one way and act another. For example Frieren says they only use language as a means of manipulation, it is shown that they don't understand words like mother or father, they just mimic sounds, like a chinese box, then they turn around and have competent conversations with each other (should be pointless since they only talk to deceive humans) and humans/others and act with understanding of the words said. They should be like advanced parrots, mimicking sounds without understanding meaning, but this is not the case.
>>285318121KYS tvtroepsnigger
>>285318180Demons not talking when amongst themselves and staying silent when going for the kill would make them a lot more frightening.
>>285318180>They should be like advanced parrotsthey are magical entities not naturally evolved creatures, what you personally think they should be like has no bearing
>>285318226Nah.
Just replace "demons" with "herbrews" and you'll see what anons are exactly talking about and why some of them are perpetually butthurt.
>>285318170Frieren wishes it had a villain even a quarter as based as Toguro.
>>285318254>herbrewsderp
>>285318180It gets even worse when the blood manipulating demon started complaining about unfairness when he realised he had been deceived by aura hiding through his conversation with Fern. A demon with apparently zero morality felt an injusticeIt cant even be interpreted as him trying to guilt trip Fern into not killing him because there are a million better ways to do that than a mild complaint about a cheap trick in a life or death battle and he should know that as an old demon
It's funny how everyone buy Frieren's biased "truth" as the truth despite there being so many things wrong with it
>>285318363retard
>>285318363never trust an elf
>>285318443elfcuck
>>285318011>lay the demons
>>285307430>but no explanation is offered as to why they can'tIt's quite literally explained why in the very same arc as OP's pic.
>>285318517Yes but those explanations contradict with their behaviour and there isnt any other explanation left
>>285318561>get told their brains work in a totally alien way to a human's>still try to apply human logic to their behaviorYou're a special kind of retard aren't you?
>>285318018Demons are smart but highly individualistic, they know that their race will eventually go extinct but they simply don't care
>>285318580Im not the one applying logic to them, Frieren is. Frieren describes the whole purpose of their behaviour to us, the audience. She is the retard and you are also retarded for agreeing with her
>>285318443Elves are only good for rape.Their place is in the dungeon.
>>285318517It's not really explained why. It's demonstrated, but we still don't get a why. They cannot experience empathy, regret, or malice. Though they can understand and experience dislike, "malice", the act of acting upon one's dislikes against rationality, is inscrutable. Even if they try or if it is explained to them, they cannot produce the experience. The why, is unclear. Are they made not to? Do their brains lack the synapses to generate them? As far as I can tell demons are just inherently irrational beings, and discussion with them is useless not because it's a feint to lure someone in, but because it's like talking to a malfunctioning killing machine. It can't get what you tell it, the code won't update.
>>285306872Because one or two autists keep making these threads and feigning ignorance when confronted about their behavior. What kind of major malfunction do you need to to enjoy having the EXACT same conversation on repeat? For fuck's sake!
>>285316129Nezuko's a babe.
>>285318700I feel like you are crying over spilled milk. The show is like what, 2 years old? A place like /pol/ has been having the same conversations for 10 years now, stop being a baby
>>285318689>"it's not really explained why">"as far as I can tell [says the exact same thing Frieren did]"Nigger, I'll kill you.
>>285318700>What kind of major malfunction do you need to to enjoy having the EXACT same conversation on repeat?it's a mystery
>>285318783Nezuko doesn't do that stupid thing with her face
>>285318810Anon. Things being the way they are IS NOT A FUCKING EXPLANATION.
>>285318783
>>285307430A Tiger is all of those things but you wouldn't want to hang out in their cage.Tigers also can't create nukes from nothing.Racism analogues don't work if the group have fucking super powers. It's just as dumb in Xmen.
>>285312255Cats are not domesticated lol.You can't make a cat do shit if it doesn't want to. Wild Animals know not to bite the hand that feeds you and it's nearly impossible to train a wild cat.Dogs and Horses will do whatever you want if you don't mess with them too much.
>>285318982(Cats are domesticated, just not as much as dogs, anons are sprouting a joke meme.Your little furball won't survive out it the wild, and one in a hundred of them successfully going feral doesn't mean they don't entirely depend on you.)
>>285318237Glad you agree with me.
>>285307430>demons >’smart enough to just change their beliefs and not be evil anymore’ Holy Reddit Demons are inherently evil beings. Like the scorpion and the frog, you can’t expect something to ‘just turn not evil bro’ based off intelligence. It’s a creature, like an ant or a spider. They deserve to be destroyed because they are inherently evil and are a detriment to the existence of humanity
>>285318874Everything to them is a race analogy, they can not into fiction, let alone fantasy.They do not believe in art, only good-think propaganda (good!) and bad-think (nazis!).
>>285319033>Your little furball won't survive out it the wild, and one in a hundred of them successfully going feral doesn't mean they don't entirely depend on you.)Nigga cats kill the shit out of everything. They are TOO successful and destroy ecosystems.There's a reason that folks are getting on others to neuter their cats.https://vetmed.tamu.edu/news/pet-talk/cats-and-wildlife/
>>285319070Anon, they can only do this in human cities and towns, in the wild, they'd be prey as much predator.
>>285318874X-Men isn't really supposed to be a race analogy either, and everyone afterwards who wrote it that way was being stupid When it was doing anything at all like that, which it usually wasn't, X-Men was just a universally applicable vessel for some small degree of relatability for anyone who felt they were excluded or mistreated for being different
>>285318799Do you really want to be like /pol/?
>>285319089Unlikely since Cats have been around for millions of years and only the past few thousand years were they "domesticated".
>>285319112If anything, stories like God Loves Man Kills were leaning more into the gay analogy.
>>285318799>>285318700People enjoy Frieren for the atmosphere and the characters, this demon nonsense is just a few westoids perpetually offended that anything that doesn't stick to the current "fantasy monsters = human races" woke fad could be popular.
>Wild beasts are not intelligent and able to communicate with other species.They can. You can teach dogs words.[YouTube] This Dog Communicates with Owners by Talking Buttons | HAPP (embed)>Wild beasts do not understand human morality or strictly adhere to their own.I mean do humans do that as a whole either? Even besides we kill and force animals to submit. We have laws for a reason and laws without force is just delusion.>Wild beasts do not possess all the components necessary to adopt human morals. Demons do. They are incomparable to animals.Humans are animals.
Cope.
>>285319331>or how native Americans we just sitting in circles singing kumbayah instead of flaying each other alive like the ComancheThat the native americans made war upon each other doesn't legitimize genociding them and taking their land, you know. You can recognize that they're an imperfect people and that subjugating them, plundering their wealth, and systematically exterminating them and justifying it all with a perceived right to the land was still a deed of butchery and greed.
>>285318700Just ignore the demon loving schizo
>>285318700demon hands typed this post
>>285319544Problem?
>>285307430Not liking how demons are written in the show =/= it's bad
>come to 4chan and be bewildered that people here are interested in evil-aligned charactersit's like tourist season all year round on this websitecan't wait to see them be all confused during april fools, like the morons they aremorons, as said by gregory house
>>285319473Not arguing that, I’m stating there are people who go the other way and think that the natives could do no wrong, and refuse to believe they ever did anything bad
>>285319635>they can't be that evil if they make me horny you are not wrong
>>285319635It's like how tourists on this board were confused how people liked Touga in MHA.Like no shit the people going to gravitate to the evil yandere girl.
>>285306872Kill the demons!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHD23m_riGc
>>285319718LETSSSSSGOOOOOOOOOOOOO~!!!!
'ate demonsnot racist just don't like 'emsimple as
>>285319840Would you 'ate out this demon?
>>285306872Yeah, what about Hero Himmell
>>285307828It's easier to come up with throwaway shonen antagonist designs like that. Or you you want some goofy shit a la Bleach Hollows?No, I agree it is lame, but maybe that is he explanation.
>>285312181more like Nocticulo, amirite
>>285312534evil by being incompatible/incomprehending but also not sympathetic
>>285313242I hated that she was supposed to be careful, sneaky and reclusive to survive, but then she just joined a fight as any other dumb monster and died, never tried to run away when things looked tough.
>>285319953Honestly? The Arrancar's were the perfect mix with human base forms and monstrous advanced forms.More should follow that formula, but designing characters is hard I guess.
>>285319429>not Devilman Ladycertified homo
>>285319498demon anime tho
>>285307430Oh fucking please you demon apologist only do this since they resemble humanity.
>>285320111well yeah, problem? sucks if you're an ugly mutant shiti missed the part where that's my problem
>>285320065>japanese>soulless heathens checks out
>>285319989>Not liking Nirasawa's god-tier designsCertified shit taste.Devilman Lady's anime design is cool too tho. Wish Nirasawa designed a figure for her.
Fetish fuel aside, it's just a missed opportunity that hybrids aren't a thing in a fantasy world full of impossible magical bullshit thanks to an arbitrary invocation of IRL biology.Considering elves in universe are super rare and basically asexual, the birth of a half-elf could be a once every 500 year event arising out of the ultra rare instance of an elf actually forming a close enough bond with a human, so that makes what Frieren had with Himmel even more of a missed opportunity.Meanwhile, demons have so much animosity and contempt towards humans that a half-demon would only ever come about out of something fucked up, and thus would be more often than not another type of monstrosity. Yamada seems like he has enough restraint to include fantasy hybrids without watering down what makes his elves tragic or his demons menacing, or devolving the story into moral relativist/fanservice slop, or even darkening the tone too much; so it's disappointing that he shot the idea down outright instead of tackling it at all.
>>285319984She realised Frieren had to go at that point so she joined Macht to make absolutely sure. She was winning the fight until some bitch sniped her from 2km away. Denken winning 1v1 vs his old master was just icing on the cake.
>>285320470>>285319984Demons are just dumb, it's in their nature and even the apparently smartest and more intellectually curious of them still couldn't resist it forever.
>>285319984>>285320505nobody can resist waku waku
Bump
>>285316845>Actually, the demons being poorly written and making no sense means that they're good enough to fool people in real lifeDemons aren't real retard. As portrayed, they are terribly written. Every single time someone brings up how badly written they are, someone uses this monumentally and mentally retarded cope. It's beyond pathetic.
>>285319634It is badly written because if they have all the traits that I described, nothing should be stopping them from adopting a different set of morals.
>>285322770You're going to love Macht.
>>285322998Macht is also horribly written. Just like with the rest of the demons>Doesn't know what a handshake is despite studying humans for a thousand years >Doesn't kill a single person for fifty years and clearly has all the self control to choose not to do so >Somehow isn't smart enough to simply change his beliefs
>>285306872If the show was more about the demons and was more about Frieren's demon hunting I might've liked it. I wasn't interested in the show until the demon hunter memes were spreading so I went straight to episode 7 but felt "Maybe I should watch the ones before this" and went to episode 1 and felt that episode was surprisingly good but in the end I felt like I may as well have started on 7 like I originally planned because 1-6 were not fun enough. I was planning on stopping after seeing Frieren being awesome in that city arc but then I learned that Frieren would be taking an exam and that sounded fun to see so I kept watching and I would've skipped straight to the exam if I had known how pointless the journey episodes would've felt and as for the exam itself, at first I was excited when I saw it was going to be like the Hunter Exam but the writing left me disappointed. Frieren herself was great as always but that's about it. I don't get why people treat this show as some sort of masterpiece that moves you to tears. If it was basically the Demon Slayer Frieren anime the memes make it out to be I'm sure it would've been an amazing show.
>>285323287So you liked the shitty shonen parts and you disliked the kino journey parts. Interesting.
>>285323572Shitty shonen parts make a good chunk of the story. There's a literal chuunin exams style battle royal and an assassination plot.
>>285323572And I say it as someone whose favorite anime is Kino's Journey 2003. In fact, I'm glad I watched Frieren because it showed me that journey shows are not interesting when the places they go are all the same established setting. Where's the fun in seeing them go from one fantasy western european to another fantasy western european town in a journey thing? In Kino's Journey the countries were very different places.Now, the whole "The setting is the same from place to place" thing is fine in video games because the player can be given very different tasks.
>>285307368>even a show called demon slayer does itIn no way does Demon Slayer says demons are secretly good.
>>285323141The point of his story was that intelligence alone couldn't change his nature. He still couldn't feel. He walked into Weise in order to befriend/get to know all those people and then discover what 'guilt' feels like when he betrayed them - an he didn't even get an inkling of teh feelz. It's not like he understands 'malice' either, and that's what tripped the city's council up as they didn't realise he can't be constrained by a spell if he doesn't understand what the concept means.
>>285324187Yeah, that makes zero sense. He clearly has all the self control over his own actions, as he was able to stop himself from killing people for fifty years. He also clearly has all the intelligence necessary to figure out human morality even if he doesn't feel it himself. A being could be a completely emotionless automaton and still have their own sense of morality even if they don't have a gut aversion to immoral actions themselves. Demons not feeling emotions like empathy or malice isn't even close to a good enough justification for why they're "pure evil".
>>285306872Because americans can't stop finding parallelas between them and black people / jews. So mental illness is to blame
>>285324541>It's not about the demons being badly written and contradictory, it's about those dumb leftist Americans!Brainrotted.
>>285324608They are not badly written anon just give it up already. You get btfo every thread and still like to pretend your opinion is correct. You're a sad person
>>285324759It's actually more like my opinion is correct, and that the Frieren fanbase is so sycophantic and retarded that they can't comprehend or try to deny the very basic points I'm making. Several people have even come into these threads agreeing with me.
>>285316099>>285316082No the actual reasoning is Scorpions are blind as fucking hell and instinctively easily startled as a protective measure. Different Arachnids have different sting/bite profiles usually based on how conservative they must be in preserving venom (I.E one of the deadliest spider bites in the world comes from the sand spider because food is scarce for them, but they also don't bite in defense as they aren't willing to waste the nutrition needed to re-stock venom).The anthro sapient scorpion would more or less go "What the fuck was that! Holy SHIT KEEP IT AWAY FROG" while on the frogs back and accidentally sting him, not go "lol lmao sorry, it's my nature".With Demon's in Frieren, if the simple fact of the matter is that they instinctively want to eat sapient races despite not even really needing too, it's a good enough excuse against their ability to reason.In kind of see it the same as vegan arguments. All your arguments of moral consistency don't matter to the average person who just wants to eat meat for pleasure. The demons aren't going to not eat other sapient humanoids just because you can argue they can survive without it. The demons of that setting would essentially go "Yeah you make a fair point human, but humans taste good" and that would the end of the argument.
>>285324396If 50 years was the limit of his ability to not kill humans then clearly his self control was lacking, especially since for a long lived species, 50 years may as well be a week. You refuse to accept the simple fact that it is simply demonic nature to kill humans and think little of it.
>>285306872>it's another, "falling for demon tricks just like the people in the show do," episode.
>>285325339>>It's not about the demons being badly written and contradictory, it's about those dumb leftist Americans Why do frieren fans repeat this cope so much?
>>285325511It is easy to understand if you stopped pretending it is hard to understand.
>>285325553>It's easy to understand if you don't question anything and turn your brain offFixed that for you.
>>285325619You would understand if you stopped pretending that you could not.
>>285325682What I understand is that they're poorly written and contradictory, and it regularly happens so often in front of the reader's eyes that it convinces me that the majority of people defending this manga have either never read it, or are genuinely that retarded.
>>285323141Nigga serial killers exist. Nazi Germany exist. I don't see why it's so hard that a fantastical race without empathy can't exist.You can't force someone to change their own thoughts. You can only punish them if they break what you consider to be moral.If you lived for hundreds of years and are just as virile as you were then you would think humans are lesser too.
>>285325793>Nigga serial killers existAnd? Are they not human beings with their own agency, moral code, and sentience?>You can't force someone to change their own thoughts.This is blatantly false.The problem is that just being a sociopath, which the demons functionally are, doesn't make someone irredeemable or incapable of having a moral code. They should be able to change their morals to more closely align with humans even if they don't have any gut aversion to killing humans themselves.
>>285306872Demons make a good allegory for people we don't like. Left, Right, Whites, Jews, it's an easy accusation to make you feel like knife eared Superwoman for guilt free wiping them out. They are demons after all.
>>285325858>And? Are they not human beings with their own agency, moral code, and sentience?And the only reason why they stopped is because people made them stop. They would have kept killing people they deemed as lesser or deserving.>This is blatantly false.You cannot make someone believe something they don't want to. All they can do is adapt their actions to not obtain ire as you can't punish someone for something they didn't do. But you deep down they'll always be the same person and if given a chance to act freely without restraint they'll do what they want.The average person just wants to grill for god's sake true, but there are some people (No I'm not racist, any society has people like that all over the world) that would live like animals if they could.>doesn't make someone irredeemable or incapable of having a moral code.They do have a moral code. it's just different from humans. That was my entire point about serial killers or fascist states. Humans themselves couldn't NOT do that so why would you expect better from someone biologically opposed to it?>They should be able to change their morals to more closely align with humans even if they don't have any gut aversion to killing humans themselves.The same humans who cut down trees, displace animals, massacre thousands of animal for their meet or because they are annoying, I suppose.
>>285326071Anon, holy fucking shit. You are missing the entire point. Part of the entire problem with the series' characterization of demons is that being a sociopath (which demons essentially are) doesn't necessarily make someone murderously evil. Just because demons don't experience love or empathy themselves doesn't mean they're incapable of observing that humans dislike it when you kill people, or realizing that murder will turn humans against them, or even deciding for themselves that murder is wrong on an intellectual level even if they have no gut aversion to it.The series tells us that demons are just monsters and animals, but animals (and other monsters) don't behave like that. It says that demons lack empathy, but their characterization is more like demons have the Evil Gene and are cursed by an evil deity such that their reasoning and understanding of the world inevitably misleads them into evil, even when they are trying to avoid it, and even when it's completely self-destructive and self-defeating for their goals.Animals are not like demons. Wild beasts are not intelligent and able to communicate with other species. Wild beasts do not understand human morality or strictly adhere to their own. Wild beasts do not possess all the components necessary to adopt human morals. Demons do. They are incomparable to animals.If the demons have all this intellect and self control over their own behavior, then it makes absolutely no sense why they can't adopt another moral code to coexist with human beings.
>>285326116>If the demons have all this intellect and self control over their own behavior, then it makes absolutely no sense why they can't adopt another moral code to coexist with human beings.Humans in real life can be like picrel.Why would they if they don't understand it, like Macht shows they literally don't?
>>285326116I guess the best in universe rationalisation is that the demons are legitimately just too stupid to live, considering that “I no kill human and so human no kill me” is a calculus even animals can make. Otherwise it really does seem like the way demons are handled is one of the weakest parts of the story, but people are so fucking starved for demons that are actually evil creatures and not misunderstood human hotties with horns, that they’ll excuse weak and inconsistent writing if it means enjoying a fantasy story that isn’t moral relativist/isekai fanservice slop.
>>285306872i miss linie :-(
>>285319331>>285311327so every time someone posts Linie it's literally a white genocide
>>285324187>He still couldn't feelso demons are sociopaths?
>>285326116>why they can't adopt another moral code to coexist with human beingsbut they can, it's just that they can't understand the real reason behind it
>>285326889>>285327813This doesn't refute the argument that they have the ability to.
>>285327813that's because they lack PHILOSOPHY>“I have gained this from philosophy: that I do without being commanded what others do only from fear of the law.”the world of frieren never had an aristotle, apparently
>>285327976demons know that murder is taboo for humans, they are also willing to respect it, they just don't understand why so they might at some point decide to break this taboo on a whim and since they have superpowers and can get away with it, there is no really any reason for them to respect the "killing bad" rule
>>285328024no, it probably did, it's just the demons never had an equivalent
The average Frieren hater is literally retarded. They literally can't imagine what it's like to be a psychopath, they literally lack the braincells to rub together to think in the abstract.They repeatedly scream their own projections>but I feel like this>but I feel like thatWith zero understanding that the demons do not, in fact, feel like they do.The whole powerlevel hiding episodes of Frieren are really well done. If you can't understand that level of hand holding explanation you should probably kill yourself.
>>285316817>I have nonThought so
https://desuarchive.org/a/search/text/demons%20%22make%20someone%20murderously%20evil%22/
>>285326116Your whole point that demons should be able to adopt human morality is a massive red herring.Lets just presuppose that they actually are capable to adopt human morality.There's still a possible million reasons as to why they wouldn't anyway, despite being able to.Like, for example, not having any reason to adopt human morality.Or adopting human moraility going against their own set of values, like pride among others, which is obviously the case.And even if they were to adopt human morals, even fucking then, you STILL could have scenarios were demons and humans would be waging mutual genocidal war against each other.After all it's not like humans are just inherently peaceful.That scenario is entirely reasonable and does not need any further literary justification. Frieren's scenario is even more cut-and-dry than if it were between human factions and yet you still cannot accept it because your worldview is incompatible is with this entirely reasonable historically precedented scenario.Look at the Nanjing Massacre. You're doing the equivalent of complaining that it's unrealistic because "why don't the japanese just adopt chinese morals? They're clearly intelligent and have the capacity to.So why don't they?"Stop being a retard
>american demon: mwahahaha *tricks you into selling your soul by leading you on with offers to have all the riches and power in the world and all you need to do is some evil task*>play me the best song in the world or i'll eat your soul>japanese demon: i have aspergers
>>285331194huh...So that's why my eyes...
>>285331006Anon, I think you're still missing the point. No one's saying the demons have to become goodies. What we're saying is DON'T TREAT THEM LIKE ANIMALS WHEN THEY'RE NOT! That's the problem. The series wants to say their mindless beasts but also say their intelligent. It doesn't gel. You can have your bad guy demons. The series is basically doing that retarded "world building" thing were it explains something that didn't need explaining and in doing so the explanation you thought was super clever only showcases how retarded shit actually is. It's like in a sci fi show where they say they have a warp reactor which you just accept but then they try to explain it with real world science that they get wrong.
>>285331006It's what I don't get about people who think Demons and Humans in Frieren's world can just coexist, Even humans have trouble with that as if conflict isn't inevitable in a species that's organisms must compete for resources and propagation of their genes.not to mention a race bound by a caste system, that literally don't understand empathy.
>>285332137How intelligent can you truly be if you can't help but kill humans even when it is in your best interest to not do so?
This shit has been discussed for nearer than not a hundred years. And I'm sure you can find similar discussions throughout the middle ages in relation to literal demons/devils within Christianity.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien%27s_moral_dilemma
>>285332304>how intelligent can you be if you can't help but kill humanssince those two are completely unrelated I'd say as intelligent as imaginable.>even when it is in your best interest to not do soaccording to who? according to what values?You're still mistakenly assuming that demons value peace.
>>285330981FUCKING STOP IT IM GOING FUCKING INSAANE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH HOLLLLYY FFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUCCKKKKWHY THEFUCKISTHISSOIMPORTANTTO YOU
>>285307368>And then Frieren comes along and says, "just kill them". It was refreshing.We have Goblin Slayer you know...
>>285332907Why are you replying to a copypaste thread?
>>285306872>Demons kill humans but we never see them eat humans>They obviously experience emotion>They obviously have intelligence>They obviously can put aside differences and cooperate>They're still just le evilBrain dead writing. And though it is often the case readers must suspend their disbelief to enjoy a piece of media, in this case it is simply asking too much. They gave too many details and took too deep of a dive into demon's that one cannot help but question the shit writing surrounding them.
>>285333035And you, why are you replying honestly to a repeat thread you've surely seen within the past few months?
>>285325955>>285324541Basically this lmao.
>>285333070I only come to /a/ to read early chapter leaks. So this is my first time seeing this topic.
>>285333118Well now that you now you're in a spammer's thread, do the needful and ignore next time
>>285332781Not peace, survival. Killing humans doesn't benefit them, they just can't reason their way to that realization. Not only can they not conceive of the theoretical benefits of not killing humans, they can't even consider not killing humans for more than brief periods of time to begin with. Their intelligence is defective.
>>285333313Stop bumping the thread.
>>285333512don't tell me what to do
>>285333313>Killing humans doesn't benefit themYes it does. They like it.>they can't even consider not killing humans for more than brief periods of time to begin withThey can consider it. They choose not to because they don't want to.>Their intelligence is defectiveYou're STILL refusing to accept that to demons "killing humans" isn't in service of some other goal.Their intelligence isn't defective. It's working exactly to their ends.Earnestly making peace would be an indicator of a demon with defective intelligence, because you won't be able to kill many humans that way.
>>285333731You can like detrimental things. And no, they don't have a choice. They can't not kill humans for more than brief periods. I agree that killing humans is the goal itself, my point is that demons cannot reason themselves out of that goal. It's also a bad survival strategy. I'm not OP; I don't think there's anything wrong with demons being this way.
>>285318018>They really are just dumb and dangerous animals, and though people might compare them to something like grizzly bears or lions, even those kind of animals can learn to stay the everloving fuck away from humans after we've killed them enough times. What does that tell you about how smart they are?That's the contradiction that doesn't make sense. They are smart enough that they can somewhat fit into society but don't have basic self preservation or long term planning skills. They are at the very least orca tier smart but not really.Also the show never addressed this, but what would have happened if Frieren's request to Aura was "be good to and never harm humans"?
>>285306872Modern mind cant comprehend absolute evil and always need everyone to be "morally gray" because its "deeper and more interesting".
i like frieren
>>285327744Only in the same way a housecat is regards anything catchable around it. It's instinct for them, which they demonstrate from kittenhood. There's been about 4-5 panels/scenes in the manga now which state this outright.When reading a particular media there's a point at which you just have to accept the author's worldbuilding and stated intent and go with it. Trying to argue that Story Condition Y is instead like [other media's] Story Condition 3 is a form of intellectual fraud.Frieren would not kill Nezuko [ >>285318873 ] if their paths should cross for example, because she would recognise that the demons of that world aren't the same as the ones from hers. She's not actually a cross-reality nazi. It's a meme. One that righttards have joyfully leapt on because they can see the leftiescum getting upset when things aren't being changed for them.
>>285334378I don't like Frieren,nor Frieren tards redditors söyboys because they are annoying whiteknights to Mary Sue Frieren Rey Skywalker. And maltards too are annoying braindead normalfaggots niggerfaggots
>>285334731Too the retarded people that needs to go back to >>>/pol/ and >>>/lgbt/
>>285307430This anon >>285318018 had it right, they are simply not that smart to begin with. And funny enough, the smarter they are portrayed the less they kill (at least comparatively to other members of their race). Simplicity is nice and all but i still wish more was done with them in general.
For humans, getting (you)s is a goal in itself. It has no secondary purpose. For a demon, that's killing hoomans.
>>285306915>midwits thinking they sound smartthat's just you, stop projecting
>>285334378It's a solid 6/10.
>>285334142>at the very least orca tier smartWhat are you talking about. Orcas have social skills. Orcas > demons
>>285307430They hated him because he told the truth
>>285307430Because it's in their nature. As humans, we are used to the idea that we can use our intelligence to reject our nature. How else can you explain a shit fetish? Elves and other organic life are portrayed similarly. You need to open your mind and accept the fact that demons are a slave to their nature.
>>285336861Frieren overcame her nature as an elf to not be emotionless but for some reason the demons can't do the same.
I sincerely hope people who are trying to sympathize with demons meet a legit narcissistic psychopath who plays them like a fiddle.
>>285336879>For some reason For some reason, a tiger can't overcome it's nature not to attack humans, even though it was raised by humans from birth.
>>285336879Elves aren't emotionless, just emotional on an incomparable timescale compared to humans. This is the entire impetus of the story.
Don't demons in this series have a bit too much pride in their magicYou could easily ragebait all of them
>>285307430Demons are sociopathic. They do not have the capacity for sympathy or affection.
>>285307430If they can change but they don't that's all the reasons you need.
>>285307368>I watch Frieren for the emotional development of the MC not for le demons.Fag.I do too but Id never admit it.
>>285306872Why indeed?
>>285316182Is amazing how nobody ever want to adress what happened in that village 80 years ago...
>>285307430I wish I were half as good a fisherman as anon is with bait
>>285307430LOL
>>285306872Ironically they are the only dynamic characters.
>>285306872Chuds who only heard about it and ignored everything else
>>285334142>can somewhat fit into society but don't have basic self preservation or long term planning skillsYou mean like blacks?
Feet
>>285338166>It's bait because its correct
>>285337317And? That doesn't make you murderously evil by default.
could demons be domesticated as breeding sows?
>>285339446>and then pitbull killed its owner >but why>it's a fucking pitbull you dipshitlolLMAO
>>285318254Eternally this
>>285306872It's a way for crossboarders to sneak politics onto /a/. Ans it's all you see because Frieren is boring and there isn't that much else to talk about
>>285337258yeah they don't even want to trick you by whispering in your ear and telling you to go kill a bunch of humans for them and make it another human's fault, and i've not seen a single sexual demon seduce men into doing their bidding either or getting lured into a succubus slaughterhousewhat kind of pathetic demons are these? even ninja scroll is more filled with dangerous demons than these guys
>>285340574extra strange since there were both mimics and mind altering demons
>>285340748even extra strange is how people say aura cried to appeal to frieren's emotions but dude, these people don't interact with real people ever because at that fucking distance, and i can attest to that esp with my artillery ears, we're not gonna hear that well with aura's tiny winces and low volume talk, cuz we're not fucking dogsfrieren is already turned around and walking away outdoors at a good distance, have these idiots ever heard of the doppler effect? i have to walk up to people about 5 feet away at farthest just to hear them clearly at that volume, and that's not even just me, but when i speak to someone else as well, i have to be close as well, and that's indoors
>>285340893>how people say aura cried to appeal to frieren's emotionsthat would have been made explicitly clear in the manga if it was true
>>285340955yeah, well, the people making such an argument aren't going to admit the finer details, just paint the broad strokes and pretend those details don't existwhat they didn't count on was someone like me
>>285341082>>285340955How you present your story is just as, if not MORE important, than what you intend. You can't say one thing then show another and expect us to buy what you said. She showed it. It was right there on the page and you can't ignore it just because the writer wants you to. That's sloppy story telling.
Frieren will comprehend all in existence and become the Goddess, but she will still want to kill demons.
>>285306872The only people talking about the demons are people who've never actually seen Frieren. And that's because people who did see the show talked about how refreshing it was to have demons actually be bad guys for fucking once in this deconstructed moral relativism world, for like two weeks, years ago, before going back to talking about all the other stuff Frieren fans want to talk about.
>>285306872because of tourists
