I finally watched s4 and the movie. Where are my fellow Mantiscoin holders? How come Wasp and Spider can get poems so early in their introductions? If Mantis got a poem when he first did something we could have gotten his poem. And how did Mantis end up being able to be a magic puppet for the princess like Gunha-dono and Scorpion? How did his soul get suddenly extracted?Anyway it was definitely all too rushed but I still liked it overall. Duck's parts were the most satisfactory to me as a conclusion. I wish we could have seen the original plot of the two planned seasons.
>still holding Mantiscoin
>>285724843I do wonder if Mantis would have really executed Wasp and Spider. I want to know more about the real Mantis...
>>285723474>How come Wasp and Spider can get poems so early in their introductions?Didn't Scorpion get her poem in her second appearance? I assume Wasp got her poem immediately the scene she was introduced in due to time constraints since her only other triumphant scenes were killing the demonic beast (Spider got his poem here) and killing demon soldier mooks.>If Mantis got a poem when he first did something we could have gotten his poem.I think the point was to show Mantis wasn't really much of a character, he didn't really have any code other than getting stronger. The bigger poem issue was Locust not getting one.>And how did Mantis end up being able to be a magic puppet for the princess like Gunha-dono and Scorpion? How did his soul get suddenly extracted?It likely has to do with them learning the heretical arts under Locust, which I presume is required for all the disciples with insignia in the Divine Order considering even Gunha (a guy who kinda expect to be a fully martial inclined warrior) picked up a few heretical arts considering what Shou Kunrin says (the Divine Weapons rejecting him and not allowing him to use them at their full power due to practicing the heretical arts). The talk between Maou and Locust has Maou mentioning humans essentially "selling their souls" to learn the heretical arts of demonkind, even if it isn't literally selling your soul, it definitely has some kind of taint upon the soul. Gunha couldn't fully make use of the Divine Weapons, and the Divine Weapons given to Wasp and Spider by Locust had to specifically be "hacked" open by Locust's magic to allow the two to use them due to Wasp and Spider being practitioners of the heretical arts.
>>285725263Further evidence that the Divine Weapons have some kind of built-in protection against such "tainted" heretical arts practitioners is Haku Youkou's surprise when Locust uses his magic to absorb all the Divine Weapons in the movie and Haku Youkou exclaiming that heretical magic should be rejected by the Divine Weapons. Basically at some point Locust somehow bound their souls to magical artifacts when teaching the heretical arts that extracts their essence/soul on death which is why there's no Wasp or Spider incarnations. I presume that's probably how he figured out Duck wasn't Mantis even without Mantis (Duck) acting out of character.
>>285724947>I do wonder if Mantis would have really executed Wasp and Spider.According to Locust, he probably would have. Plus, back in S3, Locust told Mantis (Duck) that Mantis should've had the tools to deal with Gunha if he turned traitor and Wasp notes in S4 that Mantis is usually sent to monitor things so Locust does expect Mantis to deal with potential traitors.>I want to know more about the real Mantis...I think S3 + S4 gives us enough insight on the real Mantis if we believe what Wasp, Spider, and Locust say about him. Mantis's only goal is to achieve the pinnacle of the martial arts even if he has to turn to the heretical arts and serve an evil criminal wizard, Locust says Mantis came to Locust seeking tutelage and Wasp notes Mantis and her want to both achieve the height of martial arts. From Locust's words, Mantis was a straight forward person when it came down to things, he would've harmed Chou Fu to get her to comply and killed Was[/Spider for deserting the group. Mantis was more level-headed than Wasp though, as he does convince Gunha to watch over Kguy in case of demonic backstabbing and Spider claims Mantis had a bit of tactics, but when it came down to things he pursued the most direct path (he trusted Duck, despite Kguy and Gunha both warning him about Duck, so he could get into Shou's ranks and steal the Index after all).
>>285725263>>285725427But if Locust could get their souls at any time, I feel like he should sense Mantis's death immediately. It didn't seem like he noticed the deception until he did talk to Duck!Mantis for a bit. At least from what he described of Mantis being out of character due to his later actions when dealing with the princess and Wasp/Spider. It felt like he did start noticing possibly even before, but I'm not sure he felt something instantly. Which I would expect he would be able to if he could extract souls.>I think the point was to show Mantis wasn't really much of a character, he didn't really have any code other than getting stronger.Mantis poem could simply be something like I need more power. I want to see it anyway. Although you have a point, he's rather young and maybe not developed enough to achieve poem status of knowing what he really wants in life yet.
>2 threads up
>>285725628But interestingly, Wasp and Spider decide to tell Mantis they're deserting instead of just deserting in secret. If they felt like Mantis would kill them for it, since they also know he's direct and probably merciless with traitors, they could just leave. Spider at the minimum should be able to judge whether telling Mantis is safe. Maybe they're both naive about it and lucked out since it wasn't really Mantis, but I felt that they each have a different image of Mantis overall.
AFUCKING STICK
>>285726037consider this a Mantis thread. I miss him. (I don't know him)
>>285726119nobody knew him. mantis died alone and misunderstood. just like me. i am mantis. we are mantis.
>>285725972>I feel like he should sense Mantis's death immediately. It didn't seem like he noticed the deception until he did talk to Duck!Mantis for a bit. At least from what he described of Mantis being out of character due to his later actions when dealing with the princess and Wasp/Spider.Maybe he actually had to check on the orbs to actually confirm the deaths of his disciples (assuming the orbs don't have some kind of alert when they get filled with a soul) and didn't check until after suspecting Duck wasn't the real Mantis. I assume he spends most of his time in his room practicing wizardry and only really getting contact with the outside world when Chou Fu or one of his disciples contacts him.>if Locust could get their souls at any timeI don't think Locust can forcibly extract their souls, otherwise he should've killed Wasp and Spider for deserting and adding their incarnations to his ranks. Locust's disciples are also more useful to him alive than dead, the incarnations are just battle automatons while the living disciples could actually operate without someone actively watching them over, plus the incarnation magic is actually risky to use (as we see with Chou Fu literally dying from the strain of pushing them too far).
>>285726063>Wasp and Spider decide to tell Mantis they're deserting instead of just deserting in secret.I think the problem is they were seemingly caught by Mantis (Duck), he literally just pops up almost immediately after they escape Kguy's trap.>Spider at the minimum should be able to judge whether telling Mantis is safe.I think Spider was hoping to bribe Mantis for their survival, Wasp and Spider were under the impression that the Demon Court Seals was the real reason why all three of them were down in the Demon Realm (an idea put into their heads by Duck). Spider probably knows Mantis is something of a merit seeker, hoping to gain merit in Locust's eyes so retrieving three seals + the Divine Weapons given to Wasp and Spider would've elevated Mantis to Locust's second-in-command. Spider also might've thought Mantis respected and deferred to him, as Mantis (Duck) did claim that he would support Spider after hearing the reason why Spider is supposedly above all other disciples; Spider's a pretty cocky guy from what we see of him, so I wouldn't put it pass him to think Mantis was under his thumb and wouldn't attack him.
Undead Mantis jobbed first against Azibelpher, even in death, Mantis jobbed hard
>>285726161This is another one of those parts that would have benefited with more runtime, since Locust had so many things cut about him. It just felt so sudden with how he didn't seem to notice (or care) that Mantis was no longer around but suddenly he could extract powers from his soul. He definitely would need a way to confirm of Mantis was really dead. What if Mantis was simply knocked out and then someone was impersonating as him? Locust would need some way to tell the difference before trying to extract his soul since he can't extract them from living disciples (probably).
what was the point of the bard vs spider fight? out of all the fights in the show this is the only one that i think can be cut without any real consequence to the plot.
>>285726620Yeah, a lot of the events in S4 + the final movie would've flowed better if it actually got the full 26 episodes Urobuchi planned out, Locust not having a backstory is probably one of the bigger blunders due to the cuts. We got teased back in S3 about the possibility of Shou Kunrin influencing Seiyuu's royalty and rumors of Emperor Yuu's seclusion due to some oracle (which gets referenced in S4 when Locust talks to the Prime Minister), but nothing else about Locust.
>>285726282Fair, but Duck!Mantis clearly didn't care about those seals and was quite agitated while Spider and Wasp had their whole lovey dovey moment while letting Mantis third wheel them. And they still didn't think Mantis would attack and weren't wary of him in any way. It was kind of funny.
>>285726893to destroy best dad's house
>>285726893No idea about that, the only thing it actually served was to maybe show that Spider's stealth is top tier and justify his sneak attack on Hailasu? Bard wasn't able to pinpoint Spider despite his supernatural senses. When S4 was actually airing, I thought Spider might've actually managed to capture and chain him up, bringing him to Ansatt, since the OP had Rou in chains.
>>2857272112 or 11 if you're Duck
>>285723474>I wish we could have seen the original plot of the two planned seasons.we got robbed
>>2857272114 so I can enjoy the seething
MAXIMAL MAIDENARACHNID APPARITION CARRIEANSHARTE
>>285727013how rude
>>285727602>MAXIMAL MAIDENWhat is this supposed to even mean?
>>285728654CR gonna CR
>>285727211SPK has an aisle seat so Duck won't be able to pass him.
Sagacious Nelumbo Blade haha
>>285728849>cr straight up gave it the name of another sword
Speaking of Mantis, do you guys think he was more dangerous than SPK? I recall one of the interviews around season 3 said that they intended for villains from season 3 onward to power-creep the villains from the first two seasons due to how OP Shou and Duck were. The demon nobles were stronger than the villains from the first three seasons, although they all died pretty quick due to how season 4 got rushed.
What annoyed me the most was making Shou bard and bards kid, when it would've worked arguably better if it was wasp/spider in terms of parrallels with personality and aesthetic overlap, with exception to the blonde hair. Also better from a plot perspective given that it gives their subplot more substance and the manner in which they defeated Fuji (my beloved), and left Mantis seemed in line with his philosophy as persevering for the long con good, as well with turning a new leaf. Not to mention that making Shou quarter demon changes the tone. I'm half-convinced that Uro inteded this to be the case but the cut season caused him to have to gut it cause it would make no sense on how to make it work with Shou going back in time in how they did it, and because it gave another avenue to glorify Rou, in order to make it seem befitting for him to be on the same plane as Kichou and Shou, which they seemed to have some obligation to do. Kasei Meikous conclusion was perfect but making use of warping to deal with 3 ultimate villains makes it seem repetitive. At the same time I thought it was a fine conclusion for hime/monk as well, so not sure if there was really a better alternative. Obviously you could change Yoh Ja Rei but the adjacency of monk and kasei spiriting away is much closer.
>>285730189sssuming Mantis can match Wasp enough in a fight, and assuming Wasp has reached enough martial prowess to match 10Guy, then Mantis probably > SPK. Mantis might lack in practical experience but he also has whatever heretical arts Locust taught him so I'd give him the edge over SPK.
>>285730189SPK's battle prowess is built on years of experience, which Mantis is lacking while Mantis has magic fuckery. Mantis is probably the bigger threat because he is trusted enough to babysit his fellow bugs, which means they are about on par with each other. He is probably slightly below SPK in terms of pure skill, but gets the edge when you add on the magic. Most fighters like Shou probably has a much easier time with a traditional fundamentals based fighter like SPK than a magic user like Mantis, which would skew the perception of the matchup. If you can somehow deal with Mantis's magic then SPK can very well come out on top.
Azi, demon duck and locust not getting a poem was criminal, but locust's final scene crying over the meat bun was fucking perfect.
Duck won so hard, spending who knows how long in hell with his not-bf tormenting demons
>>285727211for a show where basically every character is wearing fancy robes, they did a really good job making all of their designs super distinct and cool
>>285723474There are two breads up right now! What the fuck?
>>285731544
>>2857272112, should be easy right.Don't even need to do or say anything. Just the fact that you're sitting there is gonna put him at unease.
If someone deserved a Poem it's our hero: Fat Shou>Even a plot-hole that could ruin your story is not enough to end a man's fantasy.Thread through doubt and question, and you are bound to encounter a skeptic.And if it must be faced, it is best to do so with naked lies.
