You have learned Japanese, right?You are watching anime without subs, right?
The more I study Japanese, the more I feel like I know nothing at all.
>>286526578I wish there was a way I could only learn spoken Japanese so I could watch anime without subtitles, without also being expected to learn to read a billion kanji that I don't care about
The japanese cultural center of my city didn't open classes this summer...
>>286526578I still use subs but yes.
Been mostly focusing on manga and read most of my manga in Japanese. Haven't really done much anime but am watching Di Gi Charat Nyo without subs right now because the only subs for the last 16 or so episodes are AI generated. I wish I had Japanese subs for it since they talk so fast and some characters' voices make them hard to understand. I'm pretty sure I've looked in most places people recommend.
>>286526638That's normal unless you're a victim of dunning-kruger. The people who brag about being smart are often the dumbest people.
>>286526578More or less, but I'm more literate than conversational. I read raws and websites and follow what I'm hearing with JP subs but I can't purely listen worth a shit.
>>286526853This was the latest thing to get my noggin joggin.
>>286526578
>>286527520"not a thing has happened to me"
>>286526801So much shit I want to watch that doesn't have subs available. Luckily, it seems like they are gradually filtering onto the internet because netflix (?) has subs available for everything that it broadcasts. Just recently I was overjoyed to find that Boogiepop Phantom had subs, when last I had checked it didn't. Good anime. Wish I could say the same about the 2019 one.
>>286527830Yeah I can see the logic, it just wouldn't be my first guess. I feel like behind every new word or phrase is an unspoken assumption that I don't get because Japs prefer to say only half of what they mean.
>>286526578No, unfortunately
>>286528260I like how most kanji are like - empty component, origin unknown
>>286526801Cute girl.
>>286528260Most trivia you learn about a language is likely something most native speakers don't even know. You don't need to know the deep meaning behind why words are like they are to speak the language. And with how old most natural languages are there's likely been a lot of mutation within pretty much every part of the language. Like if you actually look into and inspect various English idioms/sayings/compound words there's a lot of weird shit that even if you're aware of it, you won't be consciously thinking of when speaking.
I really liked Kanji Garden but it's impossible to find a pirated version of it for iOS. Does anyone know of something similar?>AnkiNo I've gone through the gauntled of usual recs, Kanji Garden is better
>>286526578Working on it. I'll run out of Kaishi 1.5k cards in 2 days and I can't wait since they're so boring compared to words I mine myself.
I'm getting filtered by ambiguity. Coming from a language where you can be ultra specific to nip is godawful. I'm not even sure that It's possible to get used to. At least learning kanji was easier than I thought.
>>286526578I anime without subs is no problembut the moonrunes,they are too much for my old and brittle brainI think I'm fine with being japanese illiterate
>>286528551You can be specific in Japanese, they just choose not to a lot of time. Partially because it can be a mouthful to say and they have a culture that doesn't celebrate being an idiot so if you can't follow along it's treated as your fault, not the speaker's fault.
>>286528260But with muji makes sense though. mu is nothing, so nothing happened, so it's safe
>>286528606>muji
>>286526578No.No.
>>286526578I was in Japan recently and not understanding what people said to me made me feel really bad so I wanna at least understand a little bit for the next time I go there
>>286528592>Partially because it can be a mouthfulYeah I've heard some japs complain about English being a tiresome language to speak.
>>286526578I learned katakana, which is all you need to know plus a little grammar and you will basically know Japanese. Japanese is all just English and German but with a Japanese accent. Then I watch Yuru Camp, and the girls are just texting each other in katakana 99% and like basically everything they talk about is loanwords because the Japanese did not discover camping until sometime last century.Foreign languages are a myth. Just learn English and everyone wants to speak English in their own funny accents to try and sound cool.
>>286528750The real redpill here is if you watch an anime where nothing happens there is no need to understand the words at all.
>>286528414I also wasn't really a fan of Anki but feel like I should do some actual kanji learning. Is Kanji Garden a program? I found the site but apparently there are limitations to doing it for free.
>learning JP for anime instead of crossdressing schoolboys on twitter
>>286528750同感
>>286528821>schoolboysCalling the cops
Learning Japanese is fun. Completely revitalized my enjoyment of otaku culture. Recommend it to everyone.
>>286526578Never learning faggot language, still hate japan.
>>286528943I HATE SUSHI!
But seriously, everything that's not just loanwords from English or German or sometimes rarely a third foreign language, is basically just formal set phrases that get repeated constantly because of how rigid they are over there with the formalities and social rituals. Learning the kana and understanding how loanwords get converted to their syllabary so you can convert back gets you a lot of the way there if all you're doing is watching anime. All modern technology is English. Most ingredients in the food they eat is also foreign even if they're using them for the like dozen or so total dishes they ever make. Then just listen for things like desu vs. masu, know what particles like "no" "ga" "wa" "to" "ne" mean in grammar.You don't actually have to learn any kanji unless you're wanting to read manga or actually wanting to talk to people online. You can learn all the hiragana and katakana in a week or two, and the basic grammar pretty quick after that, but the main skill is listening. Take it slow, repeat back what you hear and try to identify the words and particles in the sounds so it's not just all blending together. Look up any unfamiliar words you come across that you think might be important and can't figure out in context. But otherwise it's more useful to just memorize certain phrases. Japanese has like 50 ways to say no. They got onomatopoeic phrases for all kinds of feelings and emotions. When you start breaking it down, it becomes easy.Rewatch all the anime you've seen before, a few times, so you've got certain scenes basically memorized anyway. Look away from the screen and remember what the characters are saying to each other.You'll never be fluent and know what every noun is, but that's true of everyone in Japan. They don't speak their own language, they don't know how. That's true of everyone everywhere, but that's especially true there.
>>286528044Boogiepop (2019) is good.
Can anyone share what their japanese learning road was like?
i only listen to asmri cant read worth shit either
>>286529378It was a lonely road, the only road that I have ever known.
>>286529378>taught myself kana in middle school using methods from language classes I was taking then (Spanish, not Japanese)>don't really learn anything more for a long time but still watching anime and reading manga>eventually want to actually learn because keep running into manga I want to read that aren't translated or the translation gets dropped>try many of the things people recommend like Duolingo, Wanikani, Anki, etc but can't ever stick with it>try to just read a manga>realize I know basically no Japanese grammar even if I can recognize words here and there>go and read through most or all of Tae Kim's site while slowly going through mangaI still have to look up words a lot but I generally feel comfortable reading manga in Japanese at this point, and have started reading LNs too. Vocabulary has always been a weaker point for me than grammar in every language I've learned. I should sit down and do some sort of kanji practice (may try Kanji Garden mentioned above) since I feel like at this point I'm not really internalizing words as I come across them in manga.
>>286529378Yeah. Learn the alphabets, read a grammar primer, do some frequency deck in anki for the most common words, then grind comprehensible input for hours and hours (written stuff and listening, a variety of things for both) while reinforcing grammar points and picking words to mine based on a combination of frequency and interest. Unfortunately since I didn't practice speaking or writing much, I'm slow and awkward at that still, in the process of fixing this by (you guessed it) speaking and writing more.The more you do something (provided you are looking for mistakes and correcting them at the same time to the best of your ability), the better you get at it. Simple as. Don't forget to periodically increase the difficulty while keeping the input mostly comprehensible.
Sometimes I sub YT stuff to practice my japanese, things like web anime or voiceroid skits. Scanlators have (or had? lol) mangadex, but is there such a place for niche stuff like that? Besides Youtube, of course, I'm thinking more of a site outside the reach of the original authors who as usual are bitchy about people reuploading their stuff even if just for translation.
>>286529559I guess your chart is from some ebook reader? May I ask its name?The one I use (tte reader) has a shitty heat map and some exports but they look like a pain to produce something like that.I also like graphs.
>>286529708I did it manually in excel by just noting the time spent per day reading, and logging how much I read according to my e-reader or whatever else I was using. Pretty trivial.
>>286529447Now say it in Japanese.
The fact people who can read/speak it still come here to discuss things speaks volumes about how it doesn't matter to me.If a TLer cares enough they will translate context, if they don't then they don't.
>>286526578Gonna do it this year but not for anime. I want to be able to talk to anons on 2chan>>286526638Ed sex!!!
Sure thing, buddy.Started learning in 2012.First Japan visit in 2016.Living and working in Japan since 2019.Working from home, so I can yap on 4chan on the side.
>>286529259Not if you've read the books. In the first place, I'm not so sure the material was even particularly well-suited to adaptation in the first place, there's lots of long philisophical conversations, and not that many cool action scenes. Meanwhile, the book that has the most action, including a guy punching people into bloody mist, they didn't even adapt. Odd.
I dont watch really wach too much anime anymore but yeah, i learned japanese mainly to consume visual novels>You are watching anime without subs, right?I watched the kimetsu no yaiba movie earlier this year and while i know japanese i cant watch anime without japanese subs because my hearing is really shitty
>learning english>memorize 26 characters>learning japanese>memorize over 3,000 characters
>>286530060寂しかった道それしか知らなかった道
>>286526832Huh, now I know who Broccoli from Neptunia is based on.
>>286528918Best koi
>>286528918そうだね
>>286528918>>286531290This is disgusting. Read something with spiritually healing content instead, not this indecent filth.
>>286530528What do you do?
I picked up an LN after years of reading manga and I would like to extend a formal apology to Dekinai-chan, you were right as always.
>>286526578why the FUCK would i learn a language i've never heard anyone ever speak in my entire life? because of anime??? PFFFFFFT HAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHH!!!!!!!!!!
>>286527520I interpret it as “without incident”. I don’t understand 事 in general but I get the meaning in stuff like 火事 and I assume it’s the same in 無事.
>>286532212No because of hot single asian milfs in your area with overseas working husbands that only want sex with no compromises.
>>286528750https://youtube.com/watch?v=pW4AiEqKGto
>>286532103Probably a programmer or English teacher, like every faggot on this site who makes this claim. He has a do-nothing email job so probably tech worker.
I think one of the keys to learning Japanese is avoiding things that are too hard so you can maintain the illusion that you’re going to make it. When I’m just reading porn comics and stuff for children I feel really good about my progress, but one time I looked at an actual book and it took me a while to recover.
>>286532454Enjoy being N4 for the next 5 years.
>>286528260that specific word is from chinese though
>>286527520Japanese has two words for thing 物 for physical objects, and 事 for events物 would be used for "what's the thing that rabbits eat?"事 would be used for "you know that thing where you hit your pinkie toe on the edge of the table?" 無事 would literally translate closer to "no event"
>mfw i wake up in a cold sweat after dreaming of japanese words all night
>>286528355Like how in English you might wonder why "knight" has a silent k, and a silent gh. The reasoning behind why it's written that way is because we actually used to pronounce it kuh-nii-ght (the gh sounds like you're hocking a loogie by the way, it comes from german) but due to linguistic shift, English dropped the loogie gh sounds entirely and we've had to either just keep them silent or replace them with whatever sounds we felt like, and we also dropped beginning k sounds on most if not all words at some point because they were annoying to say (knee, knell, etc.)You don't have to look into the reasonings behind why things are spelled the way they are, but it's nice to know why things are the way they areHonestly, just learning about the Great Vowel Shift made vowel sounds a lot easier to understand for me, but that's a whole nother can of worms
>>286532103It's always either English Teacher or IT
>>286532346i don't find asian women attractive.
>>286529378>start early 2022 with Duolingo (I know), drop this after a few months>only start learning Kanji mid 2022, wish I had started earlier (finish about 2k Kanji by the end of 2024)>try a vocab deck after a few months, realise even the N5 deck has hundreds of kanji I don't know, give up>early 2023 start a grammar guide, go back to deck and learn it>learn N4 vocab deck by April 2023, start graded readers>pick up Satori Reader mid 2023, continue using for about 2 years>read a few volumes of Yotsubato end of 2023, start of 2024. Mostly understand but very slow going>at this point, have N5 and N4 grammar studied>start N3 deck early 2024, finish in about 6 months, move onto N2 deck>finish this in 8 months>read Hanahira in Japanese late 2024At this point, I had about 7k words memorized and most of the grammar up to N2.Spent 2025 reading multiple Visual Novels in Japanese and mining vocab with Anki. I've read nearly all of Yotsubato (manga isn't my priority). Started watching some anime without subs mid 2025 and switched to full time at the start of this year, although some shows (Jujutsu Kaisen) are still extremely hard to follow, stuff like Frieren or any SOL is actually fine for 90% of dialogue.My plan is to continue reading Visuals Novels this year and pass the N2 exam just to say that I did. If you're actually serious, you should be able to do this quite a bit faster than me because there's no way I did anything optimally. The anons who actually know Japanese will confirm that I am retarded
>>286529378>learn for 4 years in high school JPN101 with a native bilingual Japanese/English teacher>learn for another 4 years in college up to JPN400 level classes with Japanese speakers of varying skill levels (one white guy lived in Japan for 20 years but still had a shitty gaijin accent and had to look up grammar all the time, one japanese lady who was teaching all the 400 level classes couldn't even speak english)>learn on my own for 4 years and manage to forget everything I learned because I'm slacking off hard and overusing MTL and rikaichan, or just reading manga in english because I'm too lazy to find raws>be perma N3 after studying for 12 yearsIt's a living
>>286533013I would be upset if this was me.
>>286533063My only reason to keep learning is that I'm infinitely more knowledgeable about Japanese than the people who don't even tryMaybe I'll be N2 in another 4 years. Hey, by the time I'm 40 maybe I'll be fluent. I use the excuse that I focused more on Electrical Engineering in School than on Japanese, so it's not like I wasted my life just to only get to N3 or anything.
two things i learned while reading this thread:1. people who autistically try to note down and turn their learning progress into data are ngmi2. people who only learn japanese to read manga/LN or watch anime are ngmi
>>286533063Good thing that anon isnt a little bitch
>>286533146It's not that hard to remember stuff especially if you can correlate it to whatever else you were doing at the timeFor Anki, I just opened the app and it tells me when I started a deck
>>286533130Are conventional language teachers and their methods fraudulant?
>Watched BokuYaba yesterday and understood 90% without subtitles>Hell yeah, we're getting somewhere>Tried Dr Stone without subs>Didn't understand shitGuess I can only watch romcoms with their simple language and school-related phrases
>>286533173no, my High school teacher was really good, she taught way better than any grammar guide or textbook and a lot of what she taught has stuck with me. It's just that college is a fucking joke. I essentially studied for 5 hours a day every week for 4 years in High School and then wasted 90% of my time in college and afterwards. Altogether that's a little over 1000 hours I've spent studying Japanese, and I'm N3. Considering you need 2000 hours to "learn" japanese, I'd say that's a pretty good investment for my time, especially considering I spent a decent portion of it learning writing/speaking and culture/history
>>286533253>5 hours a day every week for 4 years in High Schoolsorry, I meant to say 1 hour a day, 5 days a week, every week, for 4 yearsThat being 180 days for 1 american school year, so 180 hours a year, 720 hours total in high school
>>286526758That literally exists wtf are you talking about
>>286533308language did not exist before writing. Go ahead, find me proof that anyone could speak before the written word. That's right, no sources. You know why? Cuz they couldn't fucking write it down lmao.
>>286530809Memorizing the characters is the easy part
>>286530809English has over 10,000 unique syllable sounds, in addition to inconsistent spelling rules pervasive throughout the entire dictionary. Learning english pronunciation and spelling is like learning kanji
>>286533378The difference is that you can pick up all of those passively in English once you know the alphabet, you're not picking up shit in Japanese without dedicated active study
>>286532766>Sur kuhniight
>>286533341Just learn using romaji nigga I learned ~3000 words by sound and a ton of grammar before ever starting kanji study, just never move onto kanji and you're golden
>>286533409you are illiterate is what you're telling me
>>286533434I literally said I moved onto kanji afterwards, I learned how to both read and write them I just learned the meanings of the words as sounds first since learning one thing at a time is much more efficient
>>286526578subs make you watch 2x faster :3
If someone put a gun to your head and told you to pick one kanji to tattoo on your forehead, what would it be?I'd get 危.
>>286526578I'll try again once my sleep schedule is fully fixed. Especially now that I receive NEETbucks and could spend money on physical volumes.
>>286533398>you're not picking up shit in Japanese without dedicated active studyWhen you're learning Kanji, you really should only "learn" one, maybe two readings max. When you come across words with that reading in the wild and you realise it has a different reading this time, you just learn the word, not the kanjiOtherwise, there are a couple of kanji that have 10+ different readings depending on context and sitting down to learn those out of context will immediately kill your desire to interact with the language
>>286533464Are you American?
>>286533472Brazilian living in Switzerland (I have dual citizenship).
>>286533460肉
>>286533460一
>>286533460they have these on the front of trucks, if 20 tons of steel going 90 km/hour didn't tip you off that they were dangerous
>>286533460識
>>286528260fair enoughalthough in fairness, with most languages you wouldn't get kanji and therefore couldn't even begin to guess the etymologyyou would just go, "buji is the word for safety, got it", like you're learning french or somethingso it might be helpful to think of kanji meanings as bonus context rather than extra complexity
>>286533465I first learned the kanji shapes and meanings and then did vocab study, I never did isolated kanji readings study
>>286528260How about 素敵You just have to accept that a huge part are purely phonetic with no real meaning, hell hiragana is just a set of kanji used for their sounds, standardized with their sloppily written handwriting shapes
>>286533631It's a fair point but it's worth noting that ateji is its own categoryThere are a lot of words, especially compounds, where you can figure out the meaning just from inferring what the kanji are implying
>>286533631be thankful the Japanese even standardized them. We could have been stuck with hentaigana and had 20 different kana for each sound instead of just the one
>>286533668>hentaigana
>>286533676kyaa!
>>286533676変体, not 変態
>>286533465But how will he read names!?
>>286533700>make up my own spelling for a kanji to name my child whatever I wantheh, nothing personell kid
>>286533723There are actually laws in place that tell you what kanji are allowed for names as well as accepted readings
>>286533723Heh.
>>286533465this>a couple of kanji that have 10+ different readings depending on context and sitting down to learn those out of context will immediately kill your desire to interact with the languagevery thisthe naive high school me tried to do that and exactly this happenednow I just learn onyomi and maybe one kunyomi, and that's enough to bootstrap learning the rest via manga and other sources
>>286526578>watching animelmao
>>286533504that's very metal
I learned german. I simply have no space to learn japanese aside from memorising a few phrases.
I first learned kana like in my freshman year, though since i'm very mercurial when it comes to hobbies i've been dropping and picking it back for a long while. but I'm actually getting good at reading these days and having lots of fun with LNs. You start to really appreciate kanji at this stage. The real bane of my existence is katakana.
>>286533460罪
>>286533785no sweat, all of the "learners" in this thread most likely can't read or speak it either
>>286533460Just kill me
>>286533460萌
>>286533818クｒ草
>>286533460秘書 like a WW2 pilot.
Any advice for N1+ learners? I can read most novels without lookup now, what do I even do now
>>286533818I've read multiple medium length VNs entirely in Japanese
>>286533913Talk to Japanese?
>>286533913shit dude, you're N1, you should be telling us
>>286533913You move onto the novels you can't read without lookup.
>>286533913hit on japanese ladies
>>286533828>just kill meSix rounds in the chamber
>>286532103>>286532434>>286532862Yes, it's IT.English teaching is a dead end.And unfortunately, it's not do-nothing, thought the difficulty changes with the specific project I'm on.The current one is a difficult one, but by sheer luck, I got an easy part. Or not easy per se, but one where issues are less likely to arise, so it's easier to stay on schedule. Usually I do the work like 6 hours out of 8, which I'd say is normal. And this leaves enough time to yap here sometimes. Over the years I got close enough to some of my Japanese coworkers to confirm they do the same. Last summer I was doing a hard part of a different project and well, it was hard. The heat and humidity also didn't help. Going outside is how I wind down and it's harder in summer. And I had to do 10 hours out of 8 a day.
>>286526578No. And I am incredibly stupid, so I didn't really pick up on any of it through osmosis, either.
>>286534086Do you shitpost on futaba channel and/or 5ch as well?
>>286534125No.
>>286534077Complex kanji are both easier to remember and recognize and write because they stand out so much, the real issue is in kanji that look similar and mean similar things and are found in similar words, that shit is impossible to memorize
>>286526578Are there any guides for learning Japanese oriented towards Spanish native speakers? The English guides are pretty good but I feel like they spend too much time on things that are only important to reiterate because particularities of the English language, while glossing over other things that would need more in-depth explanation if your native language isn't English.
>>286534344you just pick up elementary school 国語 textbooks at that point
>>286534086do the japanese write their code in japanese? or is it still mostly english? surely you don't use kana for variable names or terminal commands
>>286534420Commands and reserved words are the English ones, variable names either English or romaji Japanese (with different romanizations), comments in Japanese.
>>286534420There have been attempts at making 100% japanese coding languages, but they're mostly used to teach kids how programming works
>>286534454I see, that's pretty much what I expected
Reminder that VNs are by far the most optimal learning tool for a Japanese learner.>huge amounts of text>easy to mine>audio for most lines to train listening>additional visual stimulus (music, art) to help with context and interest>wide variety of topics, difficulty, and lengthIf you are just a beginner (3 months in) you should be playing VNs NOW! Every day! For like an hour or more!
>>286534672I hate VNs, though, there's too much faff that gets in the way of me enjoying the story.
>>286534723It's not the only tool. It's just one of the best. Good luck with going from manga to novels (or whatever). You can do it, as long as you get a lot of input.
>>286534743lady first, you know? >:3
>>286534743I feel like it's a waste of time until I actually understand japanese well, I can read all but two words in your image but I don't have the slightest clue what the paragraph means, my strategy is to grind up a huge vocabulary while doing immersion listening and study on the side, then once I know enough words and can actually understand sentences, start reading so I'm not wasting time trying to parse text that means nothing to me
>>286534723the fluff text in these VNs make up 99% of the words spoken in real japanese. you don't need to dedicate time to it, but you do need to be aware of it because it helps deliver the main message when people speakwithout it you'll have a non-functional command of japanese
are any anons who learn nihongo extremely forgetful? i am, i literally forget words in my native language, so learning jap for me is super difficult. if anyone has any technique to memorize thingss better, please share it
>>286534818You can always start with something easier than asairo (not that the particular page posted is very hard relative to other sections). Input does need to be comprehensible, but it's also the only way you're going to become literate. Just grab a short and easy nukige or two, get through those and then start on some moderate length moege and work your way up to some chuunige you're interested in.
>>286526638The correct response
>>286534881https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwM2kMKgtdU
i read yotsuba and am at volume 8and there are pages where i don't use yomitan at allnot many, but it still makes me happy
>>286531290>前立腺I've read dozens of hentai VNs and i never encountered this word, just shows that im not a degenerate with my entertainment choices kek
>>286534881for me it helps immensely if I encounter the word in the context of some worklike if I recall a given word being used in an anime or manga, it's much, much easier to remember it gets sort of multidimensional in my brain
>>286526578Only start learning Hiragana after unemployment.Learning Japanese to read FSN right now.Will probably pay off in 2-3 years from now.
I'm doing it, I'm only around a year in and the only the only thing I can understand 90% of without having to do look ups is SOL with subtitles. But I consume Nip content in Nip and spend hours everyday on it. It just takes forever. I'm enjoying the process of it though. You get the same feeling as solving a puzzle sometimes especially when trying to figure out a sentence where there are words you don't know without doing look ups. I also like how it gets you to try different things like novels, Japanese TV, Japanese image-boards and Japanese music. I started reading また、同じ夢を見ていた recently and I love how different the frame of mind and writing is from anything I've ever read in English, the difference between Japanese and English really shines through when you don't have visual cues and rely totally on the words. It all feels worth it if you focus on the journey not the destination I guess. I can't wait to read more novels about JS
>>286534077lmao that top right one is just a black blurb they crammed too many symbols into one kanji. Its like the germans would try to write their ridiculus words in a 2x2 square.
I'm a 本気 japanese learnin' ain't for folks like me
>>286526578Japanese is such a confusing language even their native tv shows sometimes have Japanese subtitles.
>can read a kanji when it's on screen>not a clue when trying to recall same kanji from memory>too lazy to properly memorise n4 grammar and just half ass guess my way through a lot of sentences off contextI realise I've basically taught myself Japanese like the generation of illiterate American kids but it's daijoubu, probably.
>>286534818If it's the sentences themselves you're struggling with, rather than vocabulary, it's grammar and immersion that you needThat being said, when you're actually reading a Visual Novel, you have a huge amount of context that is essentially telling you what the characters are saying other than the literal text. In this case, she's obviously referencing some other conversation or topic but you're only seeing part of a conversation. Like walking in on a conversation two people are having and trying to figure out what they're talking a bout
>>286536010Recognition and recollection are two different skills, it's like how you can recognize all the various people you know but can't draw them for shit unless you're an artist
>>286535815IIRC most American adults watch Netflix with subtitles on as well.
>>286536018I did multiple grammar anki decks and watch Cure Dolly daily, and I watch or listen to 2-3 hours of anime or podcasts daily, I feel like getting a grasp for how sentences work is much easier during listening since I can listen to a condensed anime episode twice in 20 minutes, or read a couple of paragraphs of Japanese text in the same time and only get 1/5 the exposure I plan to move on to reading once my grasp on N3+ sentences is better
>>286536057Part of that is a mix between the fact that they are only barely paying attention to it, but also that voice/volume mixing can be terrible
I watch with subs off, slowly work out what the characters are saying phonetically then google the what the words mean. No, I have not learned any Japanese doing this.
>>286536368You could speed up the process radically by just watching with Japanese subtitles and having some way to directly hook/access the subtitle
>>286535815Supposedly part of it is that different dialects can sound fairly different from each other but the writing is more standardized. Like how I need subtitles for cockney but more generally applied.
>>286532375Exactly. Once you realize this, Japanese becomes a lot less intimidating. Just start by learning the kana, learn a few particles, memorize a few standard phrases, you can easily navigate most anime that takes place in the real world.
>>286533250The audio quality on really old anime is kind of shit, I don't blame you. Even if you could understand, it's fucking ear rape to listen to at an appreciable volume. I tried watching the original Doraemon adaptation and holy fuck, OW.
>days learned 293I'm trying... but I think I'm too old and stupid
>>286532766I love going down the rabbit hole on etymology. It's one of the most fun parts (for me) of learning a language.
i still don't know what i'm supposed to do for grammar i feel like everything sucks
>>286534672I find the music distracting to my reading honestly. I wish I could turn it off but my autism won't let me knowing how critical it can be to establishing the mood of a scene (Umineko without music, for instance, would probably go from a 7.5/10 to a 3/10). The problem is I'm such a slow reader in Japanese that I'm going to be stuck on the same BGM way longer than the game actually intended. I think for listening practice audiobooks are probably ideal, pure speech, usually well recorded and spoken clearly, no music or sound effects to distract you. And I think if you want to get good at Japanese in general, a wide variety of material is probably the best thing. Read VNs, read actual books, read manga, watch anime, watch live action dramas, browse forums, the more different mediums you're exposed to the better. You might be surprised how many terms are extremely common in one context yet you'll almost never encounter them outside of that. If you just read VNs you're getting a distorted picture of Japanese probably.
>>286537305Immersion is the best way to learn grammar. When you don't understand something, google it, google translate it, or if you're a real anime pro, figure it out via context with your brain. Reading a textbook is the worst way to learn grammar.
>Be me beginning of freshman year college>Not a weeb at all at that time in my life but choose Japanese as a foreign language kind of at random>Think the class is dumb, drop it after first dayYears later I desperately want to learn Japanese and regret not taking my chance have a few semesters of professional teaching
>>286537729is it really? that seems very inefficient compared to say an algorithmically optimized anki deck or a curated textbook but then again anki or textbooks didn't work for me at all (for grammar)
>>286526578>You have learned Japanese, right?>You are watching anime without subs, right?I have learnt enough to read and understand ~n3 stuff but i cannot remember any kanji or vocas and am stuck. It sucks. I can read nhk easy fine.
>>286533173If you actually want to learn a language well enough to communicate in it, you need to practice communicating in it. If you want to sound like you know the language you need somebody who can correct your pronunciation and accent. Conventional language teachers that give you that stuff will help you get good at that stuff. But if those aren't your actual goals then it won't be helpful.If those are your goals, you can just go find a regular language meet-up with native speakers and have conversations and tell the native speakers to correct your pronunciation and stuff. They'll do it for free. But they may be overly polite and kind. Make sure that they understand you're actually serious about wanting correction and aren't offended at all by it. Smile a lot whenever you're struggling, instead of making an angry/confused/pained face.>>286533790Katakana is fucking easy. I don't understand why people don't like it. I learned it right alongside hiragana, row by row. I just think of them as being uppercase letters.>>286536057Actors all mumble these days. There's no stage training anymore. I have no problem at all with older shows and movies but anything made in the last 10-15 years I'm always turning on subs and rewatching lines.
Why are the /a/ JP learning threads so much better than the /jp/ JP learning threads? It makes no sense when you think about it
>>286538105I assume it's because people here have actual motivation, and motivation is important to learn something like a language which is a very hard thing to try and learn.
>>286538105Because it's not a general. That's really it. Look at the generals on /a/ (isekai, DBS, etc.) they are also godawful. The JP thread is a general and it has all the problems every general on every board has, which is basically the same as any chatroom (discord server, irc) but with less mod powertripping.
>>286537815Just because you read something in a textbook doesn't mean you understood it or will remember it. Are you going to remember grammar point A-5-420 from chapter 2 page 6 when you actually encounter it in the wild? No. You're going to go "uhhh, what was this again?" and have to look it up or google it just the same.
Why does a polite colloquial form exist
>>286537977>I don't understand why people don't like it.ソ vs ン is fucking annoying and I still mix them up occasionally, years later, especially in weird fonts or handwriting.
>>286538105the /jp/ thread is for trip fagging and attention whoring exclusively
>>286537729Immersion is obviously necessary, and it may help you internalize grammar points, but if you're intermediate or a beginner without a very solid understanding of the fundamentals, I don't think you'd easily spot the differences between にしても ／ にしては ／ にしろ ／ としても ／ とすると simply from context, less so if you're barely understanding the gist of sentences.I honestly doubt you can just magically pick up who's doing what to whom if you don't know about transitivity and the causative/passive and stuff like that either.At some point you just have to study this stuff, remember some key fundamental aspects, be aware of set expressions, and through immersion, things will become more evident and eventually click. Hopefully.
>>286538823the stroke order of シ is vertical like the beginning of し, the stroke order of ツ is horizontal like the beginning of つ, the stroke order of ソ is horizontal like the first part of そ, the stroke order of ン is vertical like the the first part of んhandwriting is usually very clear, i'm more likely to mistake ソ with リ
クソソソのことかー！＼( 'ω')／ｳｵｵｵｵｵｵｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｱｯｯｯｯ!!!!!
>>286539019Yeah, I focused heavily on stroke order when I learned the kana and it helped a lot. There are some bad fonts, if the text is small, but other than that I really have no problems.
>>286526578man i wish i was still making the time to fuck with anime
>>286534672The dialog is good but sometimes there’s a big block of narration and it’s just too much
Just found out my next physics professor is Japanese, and by Japanese I mean can't complete a sentence without spamming まあ 20 times Japanese. He looks cool, but I'm too much of an autist to tell him that I'm studying Japanese, let alone trying to fucking speak it with him,
>>286539617just draw a へのへのもへじ on your homework
へ への の も へhmmm, じ
>>286539649Not a bad idea at all, honestly. Just hope he won't ask me anything writing-related because I can barely even recall kana on the spot.
>>286526578I'm barely N4 despite having accumulated at least 500 hours of learning... (；′⌒`) but I'm currently doing good right now after struggling to pick up the language again for years.
My memory has a capacity for only like 200 kanji so I gave up.
>>286533460変
>>286533460空
Anki sucks
>>286538952Yes you have to study but the point is that you are googling it AFTER you have found a REAL example that you care about understanding. This will stick in your head a million times better than a fake textbook example that's going to go in one ear and out the other.
>>286526758Just watch without subtitles you dumbass.Your brain is a pattern recognition machine.I bet theres tons of english words you use that if asked to define you would struggle and yet you use them in perfect context daily.Just start watching unsubbed anime and you will actually start to understand words based on the context they are used in.
>>286528414You can just use the website on your phone.You dont need an app.
>finally find untranslated manga that looks fun>way too fucking hard >chock full of slang, dialects and weird kanjii really wish i could get into VNs
I've been half-assing it since 2012. Went to Japan in 2017 and got some use out of it. These days time is moving too fast and I'm not watching enough anime. I should have gone there again back then before everyone decided to overrun the place.
>>286541007I don't read much manga but I'm pretty sure VNs are generally regarded as a lot harder than manga because of the narration
>>286541044yeah but there are way more untranslated ones and worst comes to worst you can just skip the 10 minute long description of the room
>>286541007Just read it anyway and struggle through. Use mokuro if you're not already. There was some weird slang in this but man was it worth it. Absolute hidden gem. https://myanimelist.net/manga/106409/Happy_End
>>286540987But it's paid isn't it?
>>286532489>Getting a licence for a languageLMAO.>レターディッド ニガー ゴリラーWhy would you go and take an exam so others can know you speak a language? Either you can communicate with people or you cant, but my piece of paper says im a level 6 魔法少女
>>286541142You don't have to take the exam to use it as a rough framework for talking about the languageIt's like getting mad at someone for bringing up CEFR levels
>>286541257>You don't have to take the exam to use it as a rough framework for talking about the language
>>286541287You don't.A lot of online learning resources reference the exam when it comes to organising their grammar or even vocabulary sections. Even the Genki books for beginner are roughly laid out according to what is expected from the exam (I roughly correlates to N5, II roughly correlates to N4). This isn't rocket sciencePeople don't usually do it for kanji because you're far better off going for either the most frequently used ones or just learning around 2000 of them through a structured program/Anki deck
>>286541287Language proficiency is split into N1-N5 regardless of if you take the test or not
>>286528997Kek
>>286541347aight i guess that makes sense i was thinking calling a person or yourself n[X] without them/you having taken the test which still seems dumb to me
>>286526578I'm not a weeb but I like subtitled anime
>>286526578I've learned quite a bit of japanese, but I have the damnedest time trying to watch anime without subtitles either EN or JP. I've gotten really good at reading and casual conversation, but just listening and comprehending anime is out of my grasp. Juggling dialects, levels of formality, high concepts, and god forbid puns or jokes is just too much right now. I feel like I've memorized the language, but I don't really know it. It boggles the mind.
Isn't it fucked up there's no oral or written components of JLPT? Seems a bit silly to make a proficiency exam that doesn't test your ability to write or speak.
>>286526801
>>286526789Local community college?
>>286541681This is awful. You're probably glancing, even if unconsciously, at the English subs and confusing yourself about understanding the JP ones.
>>286541603They don't want to intimidate foreigners because production seems 10x more scary than recognition
>>286541603HSK has all 4 and TOPIK has all but speaking. JLPT is easymode
>>286538105/jp/ is filled nearly exclusively with tripfags who have put their heart and soul into fetishizing a dying, isolated island country in the pacific and are dead inside because they've abandoned all hope of moving there and getting a Japanese otakuwife (or husband)./a/ is just filled with retards who like to poison anime discussion.
>>286541603they recognize exactly how unreasonable it would be to expect a foreigner to be able to write or speak japanese
>>286532766Yeah English is basically stuck in the past. We still spell things based on how they were pronounced in the 1700's. Plus English has a ton of Latin/French/Nordic influence in it. About 60% of our vocab is from Latin alone. That's another reason why our spelling is so inconsistent, we're literally speaking both germanic and latin words at the same time.Yeah it was interesting learning about the great vowel shift. Our long vowels are really fucked up
>>286542215my favourite word in english is "mercedes" it's just so beautiful in it's insanity
The more I think about English, the more blown away I am at how so many people actually managed to learn it, despite being non-native. It is such a confusing and bullshit language to learn.When you can fucking throw 'fuck' into any fucking part of a fucking sentence and it fucking still makes fucking sense, you fucking know something is fucking wrong.
>>286542397the correct conjugation is almost always "fucking" and i think that's neat
Japanese isn't worth it anymore.99% of KAMIGE are now translatedAnime and manga? Only manga were worth learning but now it's the same VN/LN situation. I will follow the way of MTL if I need.
>handwritten text>tohoku-ben
>>286542397Shame English has strict word order. It's dumb.
>>286542397Based on the ESLs who have taken over 4chan, it seems that the hardest parts of English are using the correct word order when asking a question and knowing when to use "on" vs "in".
>>286542397You clearly haven't heard of kurwa.
>>286542246That's a name retard.
>>286526578I still use japanese subs to understand what is happening. Fluency never.
>>286542573>"on" vs "in"."The/a" is hard for me. My grammar is vibe based and sometimes I just don't feel it.
>>286542483based slop loving esl
>>286531290Picked up
>>286542669Back in old days we had ATLAS and other primitive MTL. Maybe some anons remember this era. Before AI and new translation algorithms from 2016 I think. Slop is just.
>>286526578Yes
>>286542483>kamigeSo your argument is that everything good is translated despite not being able to actually look 8nto things yourself because you don't know the language. And your definition is probably just about the top 5% or 10,% of things. Though based on whose assessment I don't know.
>>286526578>You are watching anime without subs, right?Still can't. But, I can read Japanese subtitles at least.
when your definition of kamige doesn't even include axanael there's no room for discussion
>>286541603Its more fucked up that there is only what, two places in all of NA where you can sit that exam twice a year? And that it has limited slots? Like holy fuck, at least twice a year you useless fucks.
>>28654297118 locations in the continental US
I haven't studied Japanese since COVID lockdowns forced me to go online in my second semester of college. I remember getting near the end of the first Genki textbook. I still have my physical copy along with the workbook that I did not write onI want to get back into it and that feeling has grown strong. I was unsure if it would be worth it but I recently went to a Japanese store with import products and surprised myself with how much Kanji I remembered. I probably need to start from the ground up again but I imagine getting back to where I once was will be a lot quicker than someone who never studied Japanese at allIt would be really useful especially considering I have a Zoology degree. I would love to somehow find work in those Japanese primatology labs where they approach the field from the perspective of seeing apes as our cousins and learning about us the more we look into them as opposed to treating apes as just mere animals that could give us no insight into human behavior
>>286542894If new JAPge/LN whatever is rated at 34/100 by small community of ADV/LN enjoyers (target audience, especially studio/staff fans) I highly doubt it is misunderstood masterpiece unless it has western themes or topics japanese audience can't understand. Especially when Golden Age is long gone. No more multiple groundbreaking media hits every year. Almost nothing can touch the top. And if something is good it will be translated soon.
>>286542580I have but every time I've heard it used it's always right before a drunk polish guy loses control of his vehicle and rolls it over a snowdrift9
>>286542962Axanael is one of the easiest VN to read in japanese. MTL can solo it without fucking up the writing EZ.Times change unc.
>>286543201>thinking the japanese have tastehow new?
>>286542246People often say that words with latin origin are more pleasant. Which is right. Germanic words are harsher. Thank god we dropped the 'gh' sound
>>286543266>Axanael is one of the easiest VN to read in japaneseno shit it was like the second vn i read>MTL can solo it without fucking up the writing EZ."i didn't notice anything wrong" isn't not fucking up the writing albeit
>>286543307Yes I recognize this meme but this is very serious discussion. If you like memes don't forget that translated kamige is KUSOGE. We aint readin kamige in english.
I want to relearn Japanese but deep down I am aware that I'm just trying to give myself the fleeting feeling of nostalgia for the years of my childhood when I was stationed in Japan as a military brat. That was a long time ago, longer than most college freshmen have been alive. Even if I were to go back to Japan and visit the area, I know that it wouldn't be the same and that I would be better off just moving on and focusing on the futureI was just in N5 by the time I had to stop to focus on getting my degree so it's not like I was on the cusp of grasping the language before I put a pause into it. I'm thinking about continuing
>>286543094Per JLPT's own website and AATJ's website, no. Only once a year. Unless you're saying there is only 18 test sites at all and yeah, I'll say that's bullshit too. Should be at least one per state. Canada has two spots you can write it in either July or December. That's it for NA unless you want to go to Mexico.
>>286543374>"i didn't notice anything wrong" isn't not fucking up the writing albeitYes absolutely.
>>286526578I watch anime episode twice, the first time without subs, then with subs to pick up anything i missed the first time
>>286543266>Axanael is one of the easiest VN to read in japanese. MTL can solo it without fucking up the writing EZ.It was the first one I managed to read alone.Only problems were the names of the prefectures, food and some specific term. Oh, and the letter for the drummer which I couldn't texthook and couldn't recognize many of the handwritten kanji.
>>286543201Thankfully I have yet to actually get into VNs so even if there's a limited number of good ones and there are no new ones of any quality being made any more, I still have all of the existing ones ahead of me. But in terms of manga there are new, good manga coming out all the time.
>>286526578English dub all the way
>>286526638The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
>>286526578I kept convincing myself to not learn because "I don't have time/energy, muh neuroplasticity, I rarely consume JP media these days anyway," etc. but I just ordered a Switch 2 to play a JP game so hopefully that will help convince the lazy voices in my head. My guitar would normally be evidence that it won't work but I'm supposed to leave this shitty job soon so I'll actually have a healthy amount of free time.
>>286542643
>>286543393anon, do what you think will be fun/good for you. you're vastly overestimating everyone's motives over here. most of us learn jap for shits and anime girls, nothing moredo whatever, nobody gives a shit except you
I’ve started reading a little bit of raw mangas recently with basically no kanji vocabulary so I’m wondering what determines if a manga will have the hiragana pronunciation next to the kanji or not?
>>286544823>hiragana pronunciationthis is called furigana, fyi>what determinessometimes it's common sense stuff like "it's a kids manga, so put it in", sometimes it's random. sometimes it's because there's tons of wordplay and unusual kanji, like bakemonogatari. sometimes the furigana says something completely different than the kanji, like in Shy's attack names iirc, sometimes it's wordplay or puns.
>>286544823Shounen and shoujo often have furigana while seinen and josei often don't. It's not a hard rule though. Some older shoujo don't have at least full furigana. Some volume releases of older shounen manga have zero furigana. Like a lot of Tezuka's work, even Astro Boy, don't have furigana. I noticed Stop! Hibari-kun and Azumanga Daioh don't have furigana either. Meanwhile I'm pretty sure Jojolion and Jojolands have full furigana despite running in a magazine where other manga in it don't have furigana. There's other magazines that don't fit clearly into those demographics that vary too.So those demographics are a good rule of thumb but not right all the time.
>>286529185>Japanese has like 50 ways to say no.Increible bait
>>286539779>>286539617>he won't ask me anything writing-related because I can barely even recall kana on the spot.ngmi
>>286542397English isn't the easiest language by any stretch, but it's actually very much one of the easier languages. Yeah the spelling is weird due to the multi-root nature, but the complexity level is actually pretty low, as a whole.
>>286541684It's a building where old Japanese fucks go to do stuff, it's an association
>>286542573>knowing when to use "on" vs "in".I will use "in" for everything and you will have to put up with it
>>286527700Guy isn’t even a scientist, he is an actor who makes crazy conspiracy theories about space.
>>286545472Welcome to astrophysics
>>286533460誠But that probably would cause people to assume I'm part of the gokudo
>>286545262I'm exaggerating but I'm not lying.
>>286545586Shinsengumi
>>286533631>>286533654But the す is not an ateji, it's a go'on a subcategory of the on'yomi. One of the very first readings of a kanji when these were imported from "China" and that resemble the sound in the buddhist words (usually sutras) which those original kanji were part.
>>286537815I kinda learn a lot of grammar using an online app of spaced repetition with grammar and reading the grammar text from defunct core6000 in neocities.
>>286545323You live there or what
>>286543396>That's it for NA unless you want to go to Mexico.Mexico only has two spots every six months, and realistically just the december date is on proper cities. The other is in bumfuck nowhere and the last one is a expat hub.>>286533250My experience reading JJK, some chapters are so easy to follow. And in others I barely can keep up with the gibberish they are spouting.
>>286542397Because the material for practice your immersion in the language (the most important part of the learning) is immense and can even be done passively.
i only want to learn enough to understand anime and light novels. but i'm losing hope there's just so many kanji and they all look the same.
>>286526578I only get like one or two "free" hours a day after work and practicing art. Maybe that's enough if I'm consistent but I fear I'll just drop it like I did with 3D and Blender not long ago.
>>286542397>When you can fucking throw 'fuck' into any fucking part of a fucking sentence and it fucking still makes fucking sense, you fucking know something is fucking wrong.Maji de yabai, eigo wa
>>286546695>domo = domo-kun
>>286546695ヤバい！(＠_＠;)
>>286532603No, it is not.It is a 和製漢語. It comes from phrases like 事無し, 事も無く.
>>286530885sounds like you're still on the road
I don't know where to start. The /djt/ website doesn't spoonfeed me a braindead curriculum and I'm too retarded to figure out how, what and in what order start learning.
>>286529378どどんっ！
>>286547257I'm in the same boat, and classes are too expensive for me
>>286533700Most fancy names still use just the one or two most common readings, except they take just the first kana of each and then arrange them into a completely different wordSo it's just a matter of knowing common readings and common names, find a few kanji that are almost always read the same way, recall several names that have those sounds in those places, and see if the remaining kanji have readings that match up to the whole name.
>>286547257>>286547278It has been said multiple times in this thread. There is no optimal day by day schedule or set of books or teachers. There is just an effective set of general rules that work. Just like with fitness.
>>286537222>dr stone>oldnigger what
>>286542573ESLs also seem to struggle with tense.The amount of posts I see that have the word "boughted" is pretty high. I also see other tenses that they mess up a lot.
>>286547301>Just like with fitnessWhere do you think we are?
>>286545840Ateji can use go'on or kan'on or even kun'yomi, it doesn't matter, it's still atejiYou don't even know what ateji means.
>>286547315>boughtedLurk moar.
>>286538752pic not related?a polite colloquial form would be しちゃいます
>>286545994No nigga i don't live there what do you mean
>>2865473264chan, where ダンベル何キロ持てる has most of its fans hailing from. Also irrelevant to the point, which is that optimization is a fools errand when your goal is to be able to do it at all, which means "starting and sticking to it" is really all that matters.
>>286547330>go'on or kan'on or even kun'yomi, it doesn't matter, it's still atejiWhat the hell are these niggas talking about.
>>286547378I meant in Japan, in that city or whatever, or are you doing student visa and whatnot?
>>286547257learnjapanese.moe
>>286547315>The amount of posts I see that have the word "boughted" is pretty high.isn't that from the stock meme "he bought? dump it"? people add -ed to make it more silly
>>286526578no there fucking aren'tbullshit that a septillion kanji exist
>>286547440No man, this is not Japan
>>286547476Hard to say, might be a chicken or the egg type thing, but I thought it partially became a meme because thirdies kept typing it like that
>>286547257>>286547278Kana (hiragana and katakana, I suggest learning both together as essentially lowercase letters and uppercase letters) -> then basic grammar -> begin immersion and learn basic phrases -> then get into some basics of kanji but emphasize learning vocabulary in context rather than rote memorization -> more advanced grammar and cultural nuances -> start actually communicating with native speakersExactly what your goals are and how far you want to go and the style of learning that works best for you will depend on you. But that's really just the progression you should do in terms of subjects. You might be happy just doing the first step or two.
>>286547143meanie
>>286547443モエさん日本語できませんやん :3
>>286547547>Kana (hiragana and katakana, I suggest learning both together as essentially lowercase letters and uppercase letters) -> then basic grammar -> begin immersion and learn basic phrasesBoooring
>>286547547I can do kanas easily, I was in Japan and I could read everything (but didn't understand anything that wasn't Katakana or very basic hiragana words). No kanji though. It was fun learning phrases to survive the day to day, I understand what people mean when they say to just talk to natives now. I'm gonna try to learn basic grammar and particles now.
>>286547607Yeah, it's boring. Are you motivated enough to do something boring to gain a new skill that you'll need to continue to grind at for the rest of your life to maintain? If not, then give up now, learning a new language is not for you and you'll never learn if you don't have that determination in you.
>>286526578Doing okay this year so far. My motivation has been dropping lately though... thank you for this thread
>>286547659I'l learn japanese just by listening ok
>>286533146>people who only learn japanese to read manga/LN or watch anime What else would I use it for? There are no nips nearby, and I can't afford to travel abroad.
>>286540889I've heard that were studies done where language learning participants that were given Anki commonly reported hating it but massively outperformed the other groups.Don't take my word for it though, it's just something I heard from a youtube video that I otherwise don't remember.
>>2865331460. people who are on 4chan slash a slash are ngmi
>>286534672Having to use my PC for that kills all my motivation, when I get home from work I just want to lie in bed.
>>286540938this is not how language assimilation works once you're past the age of 3. unless youre actually speaking the language with someone else and being corrected/guided its not going to work.
>>286548065That's called clinical depression. You should try changes to your lifestyle and/or prescription medication.
>>286547993SRS is scientifically proven for learning anything, including language. Anki is just a tool that does that. But it depends greatly on what decks you're using.>>286548065You should lift some weights.
I recommend reading mahoyo. Reading mahoyo will turn you from ngmi into gmi.
>>286548085>changes to your lifestyleI try, but life keeps getting in the way.>prescription medicationI tried several like a year before covid, no change at all.
>>286547803once you get into the groove of it, anki is quite comfy
>>286548202Guess you might as well kill yourself then, not like anyone is going to miss you. Either that or continue to enjoy the suffering you have created for yourself.
>>286547829let's listening time ;3>>>/wsg/6104831
>>286548245No, I don't think I will.
Can someone redpill me on memorize the kanji? It takes so much effort to go through it and i am wondering if it is worth it
>>286548286Then grow a pair and do something about it or shut the fuck up about your depression and woe is me I can't do anything abloo abloo. Nobody is here to nurse and encourage you and your bullshit.
>>286548309It's only worth it if you want to read kanji. But the way to learn it is to learn vocabulary that uses it, not memorizing kanji.
>>286548309Just fucking read more.
>>286547301pretty much yeah>got /fit/ in 2016>used that discipline to start learning Japanese in 2019being able to teach yourself things is in itself a skill
>>286548333Are you saying just to read more as primary study for kanji and the RTK book would be secondary?
>>286548309If you're talking about RTK>no relation to the conceptual aspect of kanji>made up radical namesI honestly don't see how adding an extra layer could be useful, but some people seem to swear by it.
>>286548532That is why i want to be redpilled on it's use, i'm not exactly sure what it is. Is it just a large method of using mnemomic tricks to memorize kanji? Is it rote learning in disguise?Or is it a special method that taps into the actual nature of the language to teach?
>>286547330No idiot. I'm telling you that the すof 素 is not reading derivated of the use of an ateji. But the one of the very fist readings that was given to the 素 kanji. The ateji in the word 素敵 is a phonetic ateji and comes from using 敵 instead of 的, and the reason why the word can be used as a keiyoudoushi.
>>286548617(me) phoneposting at the moment add the words "sound", "a" where it made sense.>>286548309read the wikitionary and learn to recognize the most important radicals. Then everytime you found a new kanji, check the corresponding entry.
>>286548600If you want to know how to write kanji and their meanings (so you have something to grab onto when you see them) then RTK is invaluable and more efficient than the method native Japanese useThough the kanji sort order and the method itself are the most important parts, the mnemonics themselves and radical names are best when you come up with them yourself, I recommend Kanji Koohii
>>286548532>made up radical namesTo help your brain recognize kanji. It turns them from esoteric 'moonrunes' into familiar symbols.The problem is when people spend too much time on it. Even the creator of RTK spent no longer than 1-2 months on it. Personally I feel like it should be streamlined even further into just learning pure radicals for 1-2 weeks.>>286548600It's like learning the alphabet before learning how to read words.
no mom, I don't want to do my reps today
>>286548496Your primary study should be WORDS. WORDS use kanji. Learn the words. The patterns will reveal themselves over time. You learn WORDS through exposure in context. See characters mention 重力子 enough in a scene and you will remember it, no matter how rare it is. And you probably will benefit from 電子 and 重粒子 and 超電導磁気浮上式鉄道 etc etc as you read more and you start to make natural connections between these things and suddenly reading isn't scary. Studying kanji in isolation won't hurt you unless you end up finding it boring eventually and then give up on learning Japanese because you thought that was what learning Japanese was and not the reality that learning Japanese is having fun talking with people or watching a streamer or movie or reading a book or masturbating to eroge.
>>286549042That's an incredibly inefficient way of learning kanji though, and at the end you still don't know which ones you actually know and you can't write them, when you could have had comprehensive mastery of kanji with a fraction of the time investment
>>286549117If you had to guess, is it a) eating 150g of protein every dayor b) going to the gym on a regular routine and doing your programthat makes you get stronger?I hope this helps.
>>286543201Not the anon you were talking to, but just having a TL doesn't mean much sometimesCross Channel is universally recognised as a kamige but also the multiple translations for it are all recognised as being completely terrible, and that's not getting into the other Tanaka Romeo works that don't even have TLs.You'll always lose something with a translation and the standards that a lot of anime/manga fans have for translations are so low that most manga readers, even /here/, will accept actual MTLs
>>286549042I'm not saying this doesn't work for anyone, but I tried this for ages, and it never worked for me. I started getting better MUCH faster when I started just learning the kanji.
>>286533341It's actually the other way around. Literacy is a recent manmade invention. Humans got along by through speaking and listening for hundreds of thousands of years prior to reading and writing. The characters and shit are what trips up learners. Turns out, you could just skip it altogether and still be fluent... you know, like a baby or toddler who mogs 99% of foreign learners?
>>286549117Do you want to "learn kanji" or "learn Japanese"? Kanji is used by Japanese, but it isn't Japanese any more than the letters I'm typing are English, on their own.There's nothing wrong with having the goal of memorizing a certain number of kanji if that's the thing you want to do, but if your goal is to understand Japanese it's only helpful so far as it helps you learn words.
Is this real?
You should be able to read this.
>>286548309I think it's worth it. It is really hard to learn kanji, meaning, reading and words all at the same time. RTK lets you combine the kanji and meaning part together separately. It also is good for learning the parts that make up kanji, and learning how to memorize things in general. People say it's not efficient because you're spending 3 months on something that isn't actually learning Japanese, but it makes the actual learning japanese part so much easier.
>>286538105Just think of it as diluted enthusiasm, they keep that shit running 24/7 so of course quality of conversation lowers as the ones with proper interest and drive aren´t always all together there. This thread here focus interest build up over time.
>>286549290I know an even faster method (be born Chinese)
>>286526578>been watching anime for 13 yearsi will never learn moonrunes and aside from the occasional shoganai here and daijobu there
>>286549320Akira kun (´・ω:;.:...
>>286538105The thread on /jp/ technically isn't a learning thread, it's just a thread to talk about JapaneseAs for why it's so shit, the honest answer is that about 90% of the posts are coming from the same 10 people, some of them actual schizos, and a lot of posts are just terrible. Probably the first time I've seen a general where people will try to "respond" to you without replies out of some stubborn pride
>>28654221530% of our vocab is from Latin30% is french30% is german10% is everything else (4% of which we have no fucking clue where it comes from)some of that Latin is Frenchsome of that French is Nordic or Latinsome of that german is old english or also nordicIt's completely fuckedThis is in comparison to Japanese which is 90% Sino-Yamato, 7% English, and 3% everything else
About RTK, has anyone tried it after studying Japanese for a while? I'm like 14 months into learning Japanese, by learning "words", not just kanji in isolation. My retention for mature cards is 93～%. Whenever I'm immersing, I can read unknown words and infer their meaning/reading.Still, every single day there are kanji I misread and always mix them up. 銀 鏡 鎖 鐘. I basically guess which one is which. I learned a few key radicals which looked the same to me and are super frequent, like hand, person, tree, or water + step, and it helped me remember them better.But sometimes that doesn't work and I want to punch myself in the mouth. Should I just do RTK while doing my reps at the same time?
>>286549555Sino-Yamato itself is a mixture of Chinese though. And they took the absolute worst part of it, the writing system. There's a reason Korea tossed it out and made own alphabet despite resistance.
>>286548309Don´t take my word for it, but I believe there is a middle point, if you want to learn the language you need the sentences, the words, kanji and radicals that they are each build upon. Don´t be too much of a perfectionist, if you know a good amout of radicals it becomes easier to get a part of the kanji and so on, build up to it but don´t wait too long to try and learn words and sentences as they help you to learn from the both the "top" and the "bottom". Can´t really say about the ratio though, do try to set yourself goals to conquer to not get overwhelmed though like JLPT levels or such
>>286549320Judging from the name alone I'm guessing this is a Flyable Heart spoiler, still reading through the common route
>>286548065take the erotic voice works pill
>>28653581550% of all japanese people are over the age of 80 and are hard of hearing or legally deaf
>>286535815then how come finding japanese subs on nyaa is a pain in the ass
>>286549703The important part is that the Yamato turned Sino sounds into Yamatonese rather than trying to pronounce Sino sounds. Whereas the English tried sounding like foreign languages and managed to pick up a bunch of wacky noises and nonsense spelling conventions inconsistent with Old English (I suppose it should actually be considered german sounds?)
>>286549982On the other hand, this is why Japanese has so many homophones. All the Chinese tones got flattened, and now there's dozens+ kanji that share the readings like kyou, kyuu, shuu, etc.
>>286538823don't worry, the japanese mix them up all the time too
>>286541967hey, I don't poison anime discussion on purpose
>>286549409>people will try to "respond" to you without replies out of some stubborn pridethis is actually quite common for generals, /vg/ has it happen a lot. People just assume you've read every single post in the thread and are constantly monitoring it and you can figure out based on context who's responding to what. It's kinda like an IRC chatroom (or a discord). I wouldn't say it's stubborn pride, more just an adaptation of the generals format. The style has been independently evolved in many different threads on this website after all.
>>286547993can confirm, I fucking hate it, but it works
>>286540938I've known people who have lived in Japan for over 10 years and still can't say anything more complex than "oh hi yo go zy moss" and "airy gatto"If you aren't actively trying to learn then you won't pick up jack shit
>>286541014It's literally just Tokyo, Kyoto, and Okinawa, everywhere else has less than a 0.1% foreigner population
>>286550188I know people who have lived in Japan for half a decade, learned their shit enough to pass N1 for the visa points, and still talk like that. Mori Calliope fluent vs FWMC fluent is one way you might describe it.
>>286542971>>286543396well first of all, they don't have the resources to host it more than twice a year for literally zero monetary compensation
>>286550034Spoken Military or Legalese is fucking impossible to parse, it's all long vowel kyou kyuu shou shuu ryou ryuu over and over again in arbitrary permutations that somehow amount to coherent meaning
>>286549658RTK involves learning to write every kanji from memory and associating every one with an english keyword, which is kind of a waste of time if you don't care about writing and you already know Japanese words. The method is really useful though, you should just apply it to the kanji that are giving you trouble. The method is just learning the components of the kanji and using them to make up a mnemonic story that lets you remember the meaning of the kanji. Like for 銀 you can see it's made of 金 plus 良 without the dot on top, so it's like metal + almost good. And you can remember that means silver because it's the metal that's almost as good as gold. You can make the mnemonic stories as stupid as you want, as long as you remember them. After you use them for a while eventually you'll start recognizing the kanji on sight and you won't need them anymore.
>>286545297>actually very much one of the easier languagesno it isn't, it's one of the harder languages of the world. It ain't no mystic tibetan buddhist spirit language, but it sure as fuck ain't easy either
Remember to study pitch accent at least a little bit my little chudlings.
>>286542573Idioms are also hard to understand, but I think that's more an "all languages have this problem" sort of thing. I've been told English has more idioms than any other language and uses them more often too, but I'm not sure if that's true
>>286550317Yeah. Part of it is just that it's easier to grind out kanij/vocab than listening reps unless you live in Japan or are taking formal lessons, but I'm at the point where it's very rare that I see kanji I don't know, and even if I don't know a word, I can usually guess the meaning by the kanji composition. But listening to complex topics? Forget it.
>>286550419I've been watching Pokemon in Japanese and every fucking thing Nyarth says is some cat related idiom or reference that I have to ask an LLM about
>>286542397I think I learned english through sheer reading of 4chan
Epstein gave me japanese language learning advice...
>>286546203>i only want to learn enough to understand anime and light novelsso what you're saying is you want to learn all of Japanese
>>286547257>>286547278Use Duolingo to learn Hiragana/Katakana. Do the free trial for super, that's plenty of time to get it all in your head. You'll learn basic sentences along the way.Then ditch Duo for WaniKani and Anki and then do those daily while watching some anime in Japanese without subs. It doesn't need to be anime, in fact, reality shows will be a lot better to help you understand context, but anime is fine.If you do this every day you will pick up Japanese in about 6-8 months to a proficient level. You just kindof have to trust the process that your brain will just connect the dots eventually. Not understanding what you're hearing or reading kinda sucks and is a slog but you WILL pick things up this way.I spoonfed the babies whatever fuck you
>>286549256and your proof?
>>286528918Today I danger day because inside exited and It's good y'know
>>286550704dostedt
>>286550704>missed that で means "from">should be "inside from exited"you fucked upyou fucked it all up
>>286550704>therefore inside exit is good
>>286550704funny how reading the nihongo makes this post make sense.
>>286550263They do charge money for it though? Fucking gatekeep it by charging $250 bucks and host it 4 times a year idgaf, better than having ONE CHANCE to sit it per year and a chance to not even get to register because limited space.
>>286533460雨
>>286550355It's not as easy as Italian, Indonesian, or Dutch, but with English you're not dealing with crazy tonal shit and the writing system is fairly basic. The hard languages are like Polish, Hungarian, Arabic, Vietnamese, Turkish, Finnish, Mandarin, and Japanese (in no particular order).English is really only hard because of the large vocabulary. You will always be learning new words as you go. But you can pick up on that sort of thing from context. Phonology and orthography are both moderately complex, but there's way worse languages out there. Of the really common languages, it ranks quite low on difficulty overall.
>>286550903English is also extremely inconsistent and you just have to brute force every irregular plural or past tense or whatever grammar convention gets conveniently broken whenever we feel like it.>ranks quite low on difficulty overallI have no idea where you're getting your info from
>>286550241Mori Calliope is a wigger and a racist
>>286550241who and who?don't answer that, I don't actually care
you really showed us how much you don't care by replying hehe
>>286551180*kisses you on the lips*
>>286551180Don't do that, you're not in /jp/ (on? in?)We don't do that on here.
>>286551204sometimes you can also use 'at' or forego a positional entirely
>>286551204post a vocaroo of you reading the attached and I'll apologize
>>286551281Vocaroo requests are textbook /jp/ behavior. Did someone link this thread to you guys? Please leave.
>>286551124Based???
>>286551281https://vocaroo.com/12PqZO86dyaj
>>286551316ngmi>>286551355gmi
>>286526638I could recognize 上画面 as "up, picture, mask" individually but didn't know that together they meant "top screen."
>>286541007I recognize the mu and that's all. MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA MUDA!
>>286551124She's just like me...
>>286551638that's impossible
>>286551316Occasionally, a pathetic djt schizo will openly ask to start a Daily Japanese Thread on /a/. Good thing those threads get deleted.The DJT retards deserve to never escape that cesspool of a thread. They've been "discussing" which of the tripfags or other anonymous retards has the higher IQ for the past 3 months. At this point I doubt they do it ironically.
>>286548600The only redpill is that most of the japanese people are able to read kanji not because they can 100% understand its meaning or list all its readings but because of the sheer amount of repetition of reading, writing and interacting with kanji in their daily lives.Just like in english you brain can understand a word just by the first and last letter.That means the only good way to learn to read kanji is immersion. So pick a book, a newspaper, a VN or whatever and start reading.
>>286551724isn't this(>>>/wsg/6104831) good for immersion? :(
>>286550317>>286550436Unfortunately the only way to understand those type of lectures is to be familiar with the terms in advance.
>>286548309Just become an ankidrone for a year and write out every kanji you encounter on paper.I never tried other methods, but when people recommend "just ignore the readings/stroke order bro" I feel like it's a wrong thing to do.
>>286550568I must've missed that in the files.
>>286552070Was i baited by fake news? Jeff obviously wasn't praticing his Japanese as konichiwa is written in hiragana usually right
>>286552288>konnichiwa dude!
>>286552288Man, how many times did I call this guy a faggot/get called a faggot by this guy? Without knowing it?
>>286552288400,000 hentai VNs and still no one can speak japanese as a second language. I'm starting to think this Epstein guy isn't all he's cracked up to be
>>286543352in moments of weakness I sometimes wonder if the norman conquest wasn't a net positive for the english language
>>286526578Lmao get a load of this weeaboo.
>>286543352What if people want harsher words in their language?
>>286526758Learning by listening only is literally how japanese, you and me began to learn our mother language.
>>286552844I started learning the alphabet when I was 3, so you really shouldn't rely on just listening for that long
>>286538105/a/= Phase 1/jp/= Phase 2
>>286549117you can't "learn a kanji" in isolation. if you can't immediately list off multiple words that use it you don't know shit and you're just reciting trivia. if you think you can have a "comprehensive mastery" without knowing japanese, you clearly have not even started.
>>286552909Toddlers literally can listenning and speak in their mother language without even know how to read or write
>>286553049gaga abubu gamanguman
>>286553049Toddlers are sponges and have no preconceptions.
>>286553049Toddlers aren't born knowing one or more languages. Adults have several languages in their brains.
>>286538105djt faggots leaking on other threads and boards are still cancer, like this thread OP.
>>286553049toddlers have innate understanding of the universe but because we conceitedly teach them sins of Babel in the vain belief they will share their innermost secrets, they lose their connection to the cosmos and become merely mortal like the rest of us
>>286552844toddlers have constant exposure to adults who are investing significant energy into talking directly to them a lot and trying to trying to be understood. you, on the other hand, probably do not. watching tv is not comparable.
>>286528717which should be the opposite because they do so many more syllables and tongue movements to say the average sentence
>>286547850i know it's going to be ironic taking unsolicited advice from someone on 4chan but here goes: aim for something higher so that you scale back and still enjoy your anime. you don't have to be at the level to give a TED talk, just a level that's functional. learning "just enough" to watch anime is no good because it doesn't push you to figure out how the language works enough so that understanding it becomes intuitivelet's pretend you're learning guitar only to play wonderwall. fixed strumming pattern with 4 chords where you'll likely be able to play any other 4 chord song, but when it comes to fingerstyle then it may as well be another instrument>>286548026as a rule i don't listen to people unless they can prove they can do the thing. matt came from here and spent 15 years sort of learning it while shilling his courses, so while he sounded good he couldn't actually speak it until he moved to japani just don't want to listen to any language advice from someone who *thinks* they are a 10 year/n3'er when i know they couldn't hold a conversation even if their life depended on itie. this entire thread
>>286553216japanese mora are not really comparable to english syllables"witch" is for some reason considered a single syllable. "payed" is one syllable. "great" has like 4 fucking unique mouth movements in it, but it's still considered 1 syllable
>>286553216I hope you don't say that as a native English speaker, that would be a bit biased.
>>286553216When you mentally convert every English word into katakana so it's 2-3x as many syllables and has built-in moraic timing it's pretty bad.
>>286553049It takes a kid 5 years to get the language ability of of a 5 year old.
>>286553355proof? source? works cited? annotated bibliography?
>>286526578no, but I can learn Japanesein fact, I can hypothetically do almost anything
>>286553442bro, don't hypothetically suck my cock, that's potentially gay
>>286553355That's because their parent spoke to said toddlers like if the were talking with well a toddler. That's why you should exercise your japanese Listening by listening to evangelion in japanese only(like a podcast in order asuka don't fuck up your attention span)
>>286553476get this fucking 3 dimensional whore out of my face
>>286553496
>>286553511get this fucking 2 dimensional whore out of my face
>>286548215Wish my retention was this high. My shitty memory keeps me hovering around 75%
>>286553511>>2865535251000 COCK BPDEMON STARE
>>286551724Why do they insist on spilling out into other boards though?>They've been "discussing" which of the tripfags or other anonymous retards has the higher IQ for the past 3 monthsI was skimming warosu a while back and it's been going longer than 3 months bro
>>286553619it's been like this for years
>>286553619they are mentally ill. they are why /vg/ exists. some people are just deranged competitive NEETs that have nothing else in their life but to power level a niche on the internet. ignore them.
>>286551724>>286553619>>286553815>power level a nichedjt is where people go to give up and everyone keeping tabs on them is just getting sucked in to the dekinai aids>ignore them.and spare us while you're at it
ＤＪＴは、苦しみの螺旋だから
体当たり方式で学習すればよかろ？( ･ิω･ิ)
>>286548170I am currently reading mahoyo and Nasu's writing is hellishly complex compared to everything else I've read up until this point
>ask guy that speaks japanese how he learned>"I got a japanese gf and she taught me">repeat for 80% of foreigners I met in Japan
>>286529378>Learned katakana in high school and nothing else since it was irrelevant to what I wanted to use the language for>Started learning in 2019 but dropped it because it was the lowest priority thing I had going>Repeat in 2021>In 2023 realize I've literally only grown dumber since I graduated and decided learning Japanese would be a good long term goal>Make a tracking spreadsheet to keep myself accountableAnd then I fucked myself for two and a half years.>Make 600 anki cards for the tae kim guide and more or less just study that "for an hour a day" or so, in conjunction with fucking around with not super helpful online resources and not really attempting to advance my vocab, and not immersing almost at all>Tread water without motivation for most of 2024 and 2025, racking up hours but no improvement>Randomly get super into DQ3 for a couple days and manage to transfer that rekindled love into properly studying the Core 2k/6k deck and reading manga when I get free timeI'm still incredibly shit, but just since I got more into it, I've noticed I'm getting much better. I'm not counting on the motivation to stay, but hopefully by the time it’s gone, I'll have been able to form better daily habits than I did before.
>>286554288>Ends up speaking with female speech patterns.
>>2865473072019 was 20 years ago, anon
>>286551550The trick for stuff like this is that you'll see 画面 a lot, so just learn that as a word. Then when you see 上, you now know it means top screen. Now you're aware of that, if you see any other "positions" and 画面, you'll know that it's a type of screen is some position.
>>286533460勝
>>2865331462 is pure cope that you tell yourself because you only want to learn Japanese to read manga/LN or watch anime but you are too lazy, so you need to justify yourself so that you don't feel like a loser for not knowing Japanese.In reality, plenty of people have made it that way, myself included.
>>286548617Are you referring to the fact that the す of すてき comes from すばらしい which is also spelling with the 素 kanji as 素晴らしい?Well too bad, 素晴らしい is also ateji, it ultimately comes from 窄る
>>286551768this is true. people who speak a language natively most likely have no idea how the language even works. I'm like that with english. People who are ESL probably understand english more on a technical level than me
>>286549555>This is in comparison to Japanese which is 90% Sino-Yamato, 7% English, and 3% everything else朝（あさ） and 七（なな） come from Korean.汁（しる） comes from MongolianI guess you dump them all under "Sino-Yamato"?
>>286550704lel
>>286549183>>286549285>>286553037All three of you missed my point, I'm not saying mastering kanji makes you fluent in Japanese, but it's an important part that helps with vocab, reading, and writing immensely and not having a strategy on how to tackle it will result in a huge waste of time
>>286555071i see that you're trying to separate yourself from the other dekinais and i can tell you now that neither of us are truly convinced
>>286555193I haven't had to use a localization of anything Japanese for several years now.I consider myself as having made it even if no one else does.
>>286555193Not the guy you're responding to, but reading something is pretty clear cut that you're understanding the language, especially if it's a long piece of workIt's not like watching an anime where you can piece together a lot from visual context
>>286550688I've been doing 1-2 hours of vocab and grammar study and 2-3 hours of immersion every day for 5 months now and I feel nowhere near proficient, in fact I feel like I reached a plateau that will require at least another 5 months to crack
is it possible to get to a rudimentary level of proficiency in 6 months? like, learning enough grammar where you can understand sentences as long as you use a dictionary to look up words?
>>286555193Nothing is as pathetic as>the fun you're having is actually invalid because of an arbitrary line i made upGo larp on /jp/ or /int/
>>286555284don't care for those losers nor you
>>286555274I started reading manga after about 6 months of learning grammar.I chose a chuunibyou science fiction philosophical fantasy manga so I had to look up so many new words that my speed was around one page per day at the beginning, but I improved quickly, and most importantly, I had fun.
>>286549320読むことはできます、しかし意味がよくわからない。
>>286555470that's literally an 遺書 ;_;
>>286555493i hope the anon who said he's in the middle of that vn doesn't read this
