>it'd been 8 months since the TL dropped one of my favorite manga>nobody ever picked it up animefags have it so good>inb4 learn Japanese I'm 29
>>286716884>I'm 29lol what a bitch
>>286716929i can't fucking help being old
>I'm 29imagine in 10 years when you're 39, and you look back on your life and you think>damn, I could have been studying japanese for 10 years, but I didn't, and now I still don't know JapaneseLearn Japanese.
>>286717062Five years from now you can't choose not to be older but you can choose whether you'll know jp.
>>28671708429 is way too old to learn a languageyour brain is basically cement at that point
>>286716884Im learning just to read Loan Shark Ushijima. I appreciate that translations have picked up again. But its 400+ chapters
>>286717062>29>oldlmao>>286717193neuroplasticity is fake, it's literal pseudoscience. Like yeah, no shit people's brains stop changing when they become 25, that's coincidentally the age when people stop going to school and no longer learn new things every day. You can learn shit at any age. My mom learned how to play the piano at age 35. My uncle speaks 4 languages and he learned them all after he was 40 years old. Making excuses won't solve anything. Learn now or don't learn at all
>>286717260okay how do you explain the fact that kids passively learn language while growing up? meanwhile and adult can spend 10000000000 hours hearing Japanese and they will still be unable to speak it unless they put in thousands of hours of active effort
>>286717388Kids do put in effort tho, its just they are having fun while watching spongebob while youre stressing over shitty podcasts
>>286717388That's nonsense, you should be picking up a ton of vocabulary if you're watching anime that regularly.
>>286716884>>inb4 learn Use AI.>>n-no plzzz l-l-learnLearning = working for free. That sounds like a scam to me. Who the heck works for free? The smart move is always to stay dumb.
>>286716884Dumb Mochaposter.
>>286717505I've been watching anime for 2 decades and I haven't picked up shit other than a dozen stock phrases
>>286717388>passivelykids have parents who teach them language, kids use the language and adults correct their pronunciation and grammar and meaning. Kids talk every single day to other kids and adults and ask questions about what things are called and how things work. Kids go to school and learn vocab and grammar and writing and literature. Kids are taught manners and proper ways of speaking by their parents (e.g. please and thank you etc.). Kids are taught based on their learning level, babies are taught "daddy" and "mommy" and "spoon" and "food" and basic vocab, and then infants are taught "is/am/are" and past tense and interrogatives and basic grammar, and then kids are taught complex sentences and more advanced grammar.Kid's don't "passively" learn, they very very fucking actively learn the langauge, every day, every hour, every minute of their life, they hear, and they speak, and they learn the language, and they formulate their ideas in that language, and they express themselves in that language.The reason you don't pick up on anything is because you don't have a parent to teach you the language. You aren't attempting to speak to other people to learn new words or phrases. You aren't being slowly raised on children's shows with basic grammar and vocab at a steady rate. You aren't going to school where you're taught the language. You aren't being corrected on your use of the language by adults. You aren't thinking in that langauge, you aren't expressing yourself in that language.You are not learning japanese, you are just reading subtitles in english. If you put in the same amount of effort a child puts in to learn a language, then you can learn at the same rate a child does.Now shut your bitch ass up and LEARN JAPANESE
I haven’t learned Japanese because I’m lazy. There’s no other reason or excuse.
>>286718034A kid asking his mum what a fuck is nowhere in the same galaxy of grinding flash cards and grammar for thousands of hours
>>286718555yeah, I know, I literally just explained why it's different
>>286718572you did not you tried to frame the tiniest amount of effort kids make as something herculean a kid learns in 5 hours of active effort more than an adult does in 500
This happened to me several times and I decided to actually learn Japanese. I wouldn't consider myself fluent by any stretch of the imagination but the fact that I can read shit I want to read without having to rely on flaky translators is amazing.
>>286718627How long did it take to get to that point
>>286716929its kwab retard get it right
>>286718642I tried grinding Anki for a bit but couldn't stick with it. I started reading some manga but found out I knew fuck all about Japanese grammar so I read up on some grammar and started just reading stuff while looking up words. It's actually been longer than I thought, about 4 years so far, but it's 4 years of reading manga which I was going to do anyway. Doing some actual studying/vocabulary drilling would probably help if I could sit down and do it.
>>286716884I'm pretty sure you made this thread a few days ago, just run the raws through an AI dude.
>>286718611>tiniest amount of effort kids makeThe fuck? Do you have kids? You ever taught a kid? Do you understand how long it takes for a kid to remember a word, or stop using a phrase incorrectly?
>>286718733every kid i've interacted with gave zero fucks about school and studying i dunno what reality you live in where kids spend all day every day actively studying
>>286718790They spend all day every day listening and using the language for 5 years before they even go to school. And then kids are forced to put in at least a small amount of effort in school because they get graded and scolded by their parents to work harder.If you spent every waking hour of your life listening and speaking and being taught baby Japanese for 5 years then you too could sound like a 5 year old japanese kid.
>>286718034Yeah, it's called immersive learning. There are all kinds of opportunity for passive learning where you'd hear, listen, have conversation partners...if you lived in Japan to have that kind of environment. Not everyone does so more effort has to be put. Have you considered not everyone lives in Japan?
>>286718941Shit nigga, you wanna learn Japanese or do you wanna keep complaining
>>286718961>you wanna learn JapaneseI never said I want to learn it. What's your problem?
>>286719026That was rhetorical question, I'm telling you to learn japanese right now instead of complaining
>>286718888passivelythat's the point do you think kids go >okay today i will spend 5 hours listening to my mom and my friends
>>286719090yeah, they're actively listening to their parents and friends and deciphering meaning based on their words, previous experiences, and context. They're not reading fucking english subtitles while their mom jabbers at them. Stretch your definition of "passive" all you want, doesn't change the fact that children put in effort to understand language all the time. It gets easier to understand a language the more you learn it. If that's what you mean by "passive" then yes I agree, understanding the language makes the language easier to understand, how'd you figure that one out Einstein. But first if you want to learn like a kid, then you gotta spend 5 years rigorously learning, or be taught, the grammar and structure of the language first before you can start "passively" absorbing the language
Do not learn Japanese. You will have so much shit to read that you'll waste hours per day reading mangaIt's a never ending cycle of:- Find a new interesting series- Binge read all the tank scans- Binge read all the mag scans- A moment of reprieve- Find a new interesting series- RepeatSame with hentai.
>>286719063I was also being rethorical to point out how obnoxious you sound. Imagine if I randomly decided you've to learn the banjo or French/German and started spamming "DON'T YOU WANT TO LEARN GERMAN?? Please learn GERMAN" Uh, no, I don't? You just come across as obnoxious and retarded.
>>286719175that is not what active means here we're clearly talking past eacheother here
>>286719200I want you to read OP's post again. Just take it all in. Really try and understand the point OP is trying to get across right now.
>>286719193Oh nooooo, I have too much manga to read. What a travesty. Now, honestly I do want to start reading VNs and spend time reading manga as well, but having too much stuff to read is better than only being able to read half a series because nobody wants to translate it.
>>286719201I can play a video game and passively listen to a podcast on the side and not fucking remember anything that the podcast was talking about, but if I sit down and pay attention and actively listen then I can remember entire sentences word for word. Is that a good enough definition of "active" and "passive" for you or do you really think children can just understand shit in their sleep because they aren't over the age of 25 yet
>>286719234I read and OP said he didn't want to learn Japanese. That means he doesn't and that's it. Your first though is that you need to go on a spiel about how he needs to do it. What's your problem?
>i am going to go and study for x hoursthis is active>i am going to go about my day and anything i learn is incidentalthis is passive
>>286719339>what's 2+2>AND DON'T SAY 4
Why is some guy waving an N1 certification around while claiming he "learned Japanese"
>watch anime>pay attention to the words being said>read the subtitles>try to find connection between the twoIf you're going to watch anime anyway, you might as well pay a bit more attention and start learning the fucking languageOnce you get the basics, you can then spend half an hour memorizing the kana and you can start reading manga with furigana.Learning a language doesn't need to be hard or boring. Find a method that works for you and make it a habit. I always recommend pimsleur as a starting point because it's fun and you can listen to it while you do dishes or during your commute.
>>286718667Kill yourself.
>>286719321You had to have spent a lot of time understanding language conventions first before you're able to do that, which is what I'm trying to say. If you want to passively learn things incidentally, then you need to put in the work to understand the basics first. You can't just put on an anime and expect to understand the language if you don't know what は does, or why people say です at the end of every sentence. And if you only pay attention to the subtitles then you won't pick up on any of the spoken dialogue unless you put in effort to connect the two. It's like my previous example of playing vidya while listening to podcasts, you aren't going to pick anything up if your focus is elsewhere.Once you get through all the hard shit (which is what children spend the first 3-5 years of their life doing, by the way) then you'll be able to hear a word, be told its definition, and then remember how it works
>>286717193
>>286719475I do believe you mean KYS
>>286719500I don't need the encouragement, but I assure you my sister will be kissed.
>>286719553
>>286719476my man in what fucking world are you living in where kids send a lot of time understand language conventions >です、はknowing basic shit like that is going to get you nowhere unless you're listening to shit made specifically for beginner learners
>>286719671>what fucking world are you living in where kids spend a lot of time understand language conventions Greetings my bizzaro brethren. In this universe, it takes children 2-3 years to be somewhat comprehensible. How long does it take children from your universe to learn a language such that they produce intelligible speech?
>>286719713>How long does it take children from your universe to learn a language such that they produce intelligible speech?He's probably Brazilian, so never.
>>286719713where i'm from, it takes toddlers 0 hours of studying from textbooks to learn to speak
>>286719671>knowing basic shit like that is going to get you nowhere__は__です Is the simplest grammatical structure in the japanese langauge. If you're watching anime and don't know what either of those do, then there's no possible way you can passively learn japanese. You need to put in the effort to understand the basics first before you can start listening to conversations and picking up on meaning based entirely on the japanese, and not relying on the english subtitles to get you through.
>>286717193False.
>>286719770read that again anon i'm saying you need much much more than that japanese has so fucking many vague and context dependent grammar points i suspect stan himself came up with the language
>>286717576LLMs can’t read manga for shit, you need to annotate the speakers else the result will be garbo.
>>286719758lol>>286719759and how long does it take their parent to teach them how to speak?You don't have a parent that can teach you japanese, so the next best thing is to get a native speaker to teach you. There are TV shows for that, there are children's books for that, there are resources for children to learn on their own using resources made by native speakers.But if you don't wanna learn from japanese sources, then the next best thing after that is a textbook.>>286719814You gotta start somewhere. Also all languages on the planet are like this
You should be able to read this.
>>286719832I cheated with my hanzi knowledgez hehe
>>286719830i actually feel we were from different fucking universes parents do not actively teach babies language what the FUCK
>>286719193>136You’re bad at Japanese. The only passing mark should be 180.
>>286719852wow, I feel so honored to have met an actual cross-dimensional being, this is amazing. Does your dimension also have Thruento's?
>>286719370>what's 2+2 shucks i don't know >how dare you not fucking get a Ph.D. on maths and read 200000 books specially on calculus, if you read one daily it can be done and you'll learn calculus, it's what I did so everyone else has to, didn't you ask for 2+2
>>286716884>>286717193I started at 29 and am near proficient now 2 years later. stop being a little bitch.
>>286717388The period of language acquisition that kids go through is grossly misunderstood outside of psychology. The reason kids seem to pick it up so fast is because their parents and caretakers are giving them literal one-on-one tutoring for hours a day, and any time not spent being tutored is being spent immersed. Anyone could learn japanese in two years with that kind of treatment.
>>286719832防危板Danger/emergency panel?>復座Reseating?
>>286719980I guess what you're saying is people who are lucky enough to have good teachers or to be able to pay for good teachers win in the end, like with everything else in life
>>286719830>Also all languages on the planet are like thisEnglish is not.
>>286719980No they fucking can't. People watch anime for decades and know fuck all Japanese. Kids are just magnitudes of times better at learning language than adults inb4 doesn't coint
>>286719972and im the queen of england
>>286720022It is what it is
>>286720020Yes, people with parents are lucky. Sorry Jamal
>>286720039What part of one-on-one tutoring and constant immersion did you not understand?
>>286720022Classic case of monolingual making it harder than it actually is
>>286720039I know people who have been living in Japan for over 10 years and still can't read hiragana. If you don't actively put in the effort to learn then you're not going to learn, it's as simple as that
>>286720083calling parents talking to their kids tutoring is a fucking stretch man what the fuck are we even talking about at this point this is so fucking autistic why are we like this
>>286720080Are you American or something?
>>286720123I love anime!
>>286720136AND GAYMIN
Just learn it it’s ezpz if you put in 2 hrs a day I promise
>>286716884>I'm 29And the problem is? You're still young OP
>>286720142literally just be born Japanese, it's that simple
>>28672014629 in is literally one foot in the grave
>>286720146thats deep unc territory tho
Everyone older than 18 better get the FRICK out. This is a website for LITTLE GIRLS ONLY
>>286720142My ADHD brain doesn't let me put in more than 30-60 minutes
>>286720206>ADHD>an entire houryou don't have ADHD
>>286717388>>286720039the fastest way to learn a language is being totally immersed and in a "sink or swim" situation with it. babies don't know any language so they have no way to communicate until they learn the language of people around them, and it still takes them a good 5-6 years before most can communicate proficiently.if you're ever in a situation where you actually have no way to communicate other than learning you'll learn fast. you don't appreciate how easily we express our thoughts to each other until it's suddenly taken away. I was in a situation like that with spanish and I went from knowledge from high school classes (basically worthless), to being able to have conversations in about 3 months.
>>286720307kek yeah lemme just hit up my local ufo to drop me in the middle of toyko while giving me regular food deliveries so i dont starve
>>286720123Not a stretch at all. It's intensive, guided learning tailored to the student. Usually people grow out of the kind of closed-minded argumentativeness you're posting by age 29. I can see why you're having trouble, and I recommend having a little more to think.
>>286720350that's the spirit!
>>286720226>>286720350holy fuck bro you need to shed this victim mentality. people with ADHD graduate college all the time and people older than 25 can learn new skills. you need to quit excusing yourself from any effort because of your circumstances you little pussy it'll take you nowhere you fucking bitch.
>>286720391*kisses you*what now, faggot
>>286720391show me ONE unmedicated ADHD sufferer that graduated a serious college
Not in public...
>>286716884Learn Japanese, I'm also 29 but I'm still doing it bitch: It's gonna take me years but it's gonna be worth it
>>286720427that would be me. I have very significant ADHD and I got bachelor's in CS when I was, funny enough, 29. what now faggot?
>>286720472>CS>at some no-name college no less
>>286720482
>All these 29 year olds/a/ is filled with zoomers
>>286720482TRY UNIVERSITY OF TEXASCOULD'VE GONE PRO IF I DIDN'T JOIN THE NAVY
>>286720482yeah I know your type, I shouldn't bother with you. go on being a loser as long as you like, but don't blame anyone but yourself for it
>>286720497bitch i said serious college in original post >>286720520what the hell are you...?
>>286720455Based and going to make it
>>286720602if you started learning after 16 your NGMI
>>286720618Negative Nancie's are all NGMIPositive Pete's are all GMI
>>286720123>this is so fucking autistic
>>286720618I started after 16 and I haven't read a translation in a decade. As far as I'm concerned I got what I wanted.
>>286720666(this Anon started at 16.1)
>>286716884Don't spend 2-3 years learning basic Japanese.Don't enjoy the freedom of reading, watching or playing anything you want as soon as its out.Don't listen to drama CDs or understand the lyrics of Japanese songs.Don't watch Japanese streamers or youtube / niconico videos.Don't enjoy the nuances of puns and humor you can't translate into English.Be forever reliant on subpar translations created by machines or others for the rest of your life.
>>286720684Do not pass Go, do not collect $200
>>286720684> 2-3 years is that really all it takes? i thought it was more like 20-30 years
>>286720709You don't need to know enough to do a professional job in Japan to be able to read manga. You don't even need to be completely fluent to be able to read manga. And reading manga will be part of the learning process.
>>2867207092 years is achievable but probably a minimum. Whether you take 2 or 4 is completely dependent on your free time and your willpower.
>>286720751i dunno i'm nearing 1 year in and i feel like i don't know SHITi can't read shit other than shonen manga (while looking up the powerscaling terms)
>>286720788That's better than nothing. The more you learn the more you'll feel like you have a long way to go but if you're reading anything at a comfortable pace that's a good thing. I had trouble with Yotsuba at the beginning but when I went back to it later I was able to breeze through chapters.
>>286720788Bro you're reading at a middle school level after a year. That's great.
>>286720165Next you're gonna tell me being 50 yo is already too old.
>>286720788figuring out what the right level of discomfort is is the hard part, but i think you need to push into easy vns or lns at some point and a few months of that will make a huge difference
>>286720850>>286720857i mean i guess but better than nothing isn't exactly a high bar and this shoneshit is like 90% very very basic phrases and words >>286720885VNs in general feel waaaaaaay harder than manga but i might be biased since i'm not really into VNs in general
>>286716884Just use the Stan Lee method: look at the raws and imagine the dialogue yourself.
>>286720927So look for stuff on the easier side that has less furigana. Yuru Yuri and Oomuroke feel like kind of an in between of shounen/shoujo manga with full furigana and harder seinen series that have zero furigana.
>>286720709See pic related. If you learn only 1000 words, you'll know over 75% of words used in visual novels. Anime and manga vocabulary is even simpler. The rest you can figure out with a dictionary.Get comfortable with that dictionary though, you'll need it for the other 29000 words.
>>286720927Manga is actually very hard, it demands you to have a functioning context tracking system which might not be attained even at N1 if you lacked audio input.
>>286720878>50 yo is already too oldIf you're a B-52 Stratofortress then no.Are you a B-52 Stratofortress?
>>286716884Enough coping learn japanese, lmao
>>286720961iunno i've learnt like 3k words and i feel like i know maybe 5-10%
>>286720934hey, professional localizers do this too
>>286720961I know a little over 7k yet still feel in over my head when reading/listening Japanese. I don't know if I understand what's actually being said or just making mildly educated guesses
>>286717388You can't compare them. They are playing different games. A kid's brain is like a brand new road being built. It's soft and can be shaped in any direction. For a few years, it's a super-highway just for learning language. An adult's brain is a finished city with all its roads already paved. Those roads are your first language. To learn a new language, you have to build new roads in a city that's already full. It takes more work and you have to go around the old roads.
>>286721875>urban infrastructure analogy
>>286721875this reads like ai, but regardless, posts about how babies learn language are always fucking stupid. it's always hugely understated how much their environment caters to them. and in spite of that the speed of their learning is not impressive. their advantage is that once they do hit fluency no one else will ever compare, and they will have zero trouble with phonology (although that part is irrelevant for japanese because it's phonologically trivial).>babies are only focused on learning languagethis is so fucking far from the truth. they're learning to perceive depth, figuring out how light and shadows work, understanding how to coordinate their limbs with their sight, figuring out how to balance, building a loose intuition for how to distinguish wood, plastic, glass, and metal through noise and touch, building a million mental categories for different types of household objects before they can possibly attach any kind of name to them, and so much more that is equal or higher priority to language.
>>286717193that's a myth, https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ1415576.pdf
The only person in this thread that is correct is the person who posting about how children learn. They are all basically adhd hyperfocused on learning everything. You too could be hyper focused on learning too if you choose to interact with Japanese enough to learn how natives speak and how to fix sentences.T. Preschool teacher
>>286716884Maybe I could learn Japanese>So how long does it take? If you spend around six hours every day, it'll probably take six years to be somewhat fluent Okay, maybe I can't learn Japanese.Now you might say>no, no, anon. It doesn't take THAT longBut that's part of the problem. Claims reach from anywhere between 2-10 years, how do you make a commitment with vague information like that?Wish I was a hikkineet, then it'd be a nobrainer, though.
>>286722503>>So how long does it take? If you spend around six hours every day, it'll probably take six years to be somewhat fluentReplace either six with a two, if that's your actual average through the year and not "two hours a day except for the 3 weeks a month I don't do anything", and you aren't doing something stupid like 2 hours of anki>Claims reach from anywhere between 2-10 years,There aren't many hobbies as infested with goalpost-shifting "no that doesn't count" posts, as if you should be aiming for a higher standard than watching anime and reading lns
>>286716884So what dickhole? The reason kids learn languages "quickly" is because they have to spend a few years lying down and shitting themselves with nothing to do but listen to people talk in a language they don't understand. Your big boy adult brain is way fucking better at learning if you aren't an actual idiot. Go fucking learn.
>>286722503You learn Japanese by reading manga.
>>286722434imagine having anon as your school teacher
>>286722503>I can't act if I don't know exactly how it will turn outwhat a sad way to live
>>286716884>>inb4 learn Japanese >I'm 29Are you literally me?
