That’s why author keeps rewriting the ending over and over and over and over. The author simply can’t accept he doesn’t have the answers much like Vinland Saga and now we have seen every ending possible for EVA. There’s no answer to the war of the worlds aka life

>anon learns that anno is a hack

>>286771931
>No one in his life loves him for who he is, they only love him for the transactional services
that's called being a man

>>286772097
Lose weight then

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You don't need the feelings of others to love yourself, you are born, live and die with yourself, you are alone in your own mind maybe surrounded by other people but life is a solo game in the end, so rather accept yourself in any cases

>>286771931
The best you're going to get is "you didn't get it" in some form or another. Any notion of EVA having a positive ending is just ignoring all of the state of everything around the world and characters.

>>286772343
Yes but how?

>>286772359
say "im awsome" in a mirror 3x times then do a jump
Important: If you don't do the jump at the end it'll NOT work.

>>286772183
Contrary to popular belief, the most solitude inducing attribute a man can possess is a bad personality. Women are far more sensitive to personality than men are, and good looks will not make up for it. If you're a void inside, you're destined to die alone.

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>>286772352
you didn't get it

>>286771931
He did have someone who loved him for who he was. It was some silver haired alien boy, who he squashed like a bug.

>>286771931
his father cares about him, his mother loved him, he has friends (even asuka) and misato clearly cares about him. if he had a strong support in his life maybr he wouldnt be depressed

>>286773341
but the core problem is that he didnt love hinself because his father was ignoring him

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>>286771931
>His only value was transactional in nature, he wasn't truly loved inherently.
I didn’t know Horikoshi was a fan

>>286773335
Didn't he "love" him because he saw a broken, affection-starved soul?

>>286773376
>neither protagonist even tries to improve himself or make their dreams come true without external forces pushing them alone

>>286771931
No, you're absolutely right, the japanese have extremely backwards views on social interactions and self.

>>286773488
fuck off racist

>>286773277
>Everything will be alright!
Except not really, no one in EoE's ending believes this. The world is destroyed. Humanity all but wiped out. Shinji is even strangling Asuka again as she says "kimochi warui" because the situation is just terrible. Be realistic for a moment. What is there to be happy about in the post-apocalypse that is EoE's ending?

>>286773636
Going on post-apocalyptic adventure with your now co-dependent waifu

>>286773756
She calls him disgusting with the deadest looking eyes you can give a person. All while the corpse of your mother's clone decays in a ocean of orange goop that absolutely wrecked the Earth's ecosystem.
Truly the happiest of endings.

>>286771931
>I don't get how at the end of Evangelion, Shinji learns to love himself
By refusing to define himself solely through being useful to others and realizing that life is destined to be painful at times with no real alternative. The alternative to hurting two hedgehogs hurting each other with their spikes is them freezing to death.
>he wasn't truly loved inherently
Why do you think that? The problem with Shinji is that he does not recognize human love because of its two-sided nature, as humans will both love and somewhat hate each others due to inherent barrier between them and their personal problems. Shinji is deathly afraid of hate and rejection. He was surrounded by similar people with enormous personal problems, who may have loved him, but, being human, were too complex and scary for Shinji to recognize them as individuals he could form a connection with. Asuka obviously loved him, for example, and also refused to recognize that, which is what you see in episode 22, when she sees Shinji as Kaji in her subconscious, but screams at him asking why he's there, denying her desire to be with him.
>>286773488
Evangelion is anti-Japanese when it comes to established social norms. It's literally a counter-culture denpa story about rejecting Japanese stoic social Zen Buddhism and instead embracing introspection, individualism, and personal well-being before the welfare of others. It's about how a mechanism can't function without well-oiled cogs.

>>286773636
>What is there to be happy about in the post-apocalypse that is EoE's ending?
Each other

>>286773335
Kaworu only "loved" Shinji because Shinji had access to Adam

>>286773380
So he loved him for who he was then?

>>286774098
Kaworu didn't need Shinji to access Adam

>>286774055
Therapist anon, if Shinji is literally me fr fr, what do I do? I too have a deathly fear of abandonment

>>286774055
Are you kidding me, Shinji not only worships the two monsters who gave birth to him, he has never, EVER reflected on being abandoned and used, instead choosing to take the blame on himself for being abused his entire life. Doesn't get much more japanese.

Guys, OP is talking about TV ending.

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>>286773215

>>286774066
Just the kind of limpdick, substanceless response I expected. At this point, you may as well pretend negative emotion doesn't exist.

>>286774185
Rewatch the last two episodes and go to therapy. Realize your own mortality. I personally got over it automatically in my late 20s, realizing that I'm gonna die one day and that being alone is not gonna cut it no matter how afraid I am.

>>286773215
>the most solitude inducing attribute a man can possess is a bad personality
Ted Bundy had multiple girlfriends and lovers but ok

>>286774202
>Shinji not only worships the two monsters who gave birth to him, he has never, EVER reflected on being abandoned and used
It doesn't really matter. That's the whole point of "goodbye, father, thank you, mother". Shinji doesn't care anymore about his parents, he grows up, escapes mother's womb and father's approval, and is ready to be with the real "other". It's exactly how it happens in real life, I experienced the exact same thing. You just stop valuing your parents' approval and live your own life. You HAVE to escape them.

>>286774260
>At this point, you may as well pretend negative emotion doesn't exist
The point of the series is that they do and that you should just get over it and embrace them, because the alternative is death

>>286774235
>>286774281
You're not contradicting that anon with those examples

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>>286774335
You are talking to 2 different people...

>>286774396
Yes I was saying that to both of you

Is Rei actually kuudere? I remember her being pretty emotional.

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>>286774235
>>286774281
Do I seriously have to spell out that
>bad personality
means
>unattractive personality

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>>286774153
That's why he's the best

anybody got that greentext of misato asking for the lance of longinus and they reply with "it will be ready in 5 minutes"

>>286771931
Rei's motherly love cured him.

>>286774837
I have no idea what personality this guy has but I can already tell he's a nerd so your argument doesn't really hold up does it

>>286771931
The final two episodes of NGE analyze Shinji's (and other character's) internalized issues, which all serves to build up to the alternate reality scene where Shinji realizes that another life for himself beyond piloting the Eva can exist, as well as finally coming to understand that his truest self is the self which is governed by how others see him, which is coincidentally affected by how he believes others see him. Asuka says it's all in his imagination, and when he finally realizes that he can accept a different reality and thus it will be made manifest, he does exactly that, because running away (like he always does) won't help him this time, and actually embracing self-acceptance is the solution. He learns to love himself because it's the truth he desires, and acting upon it will change how others view him, thus reinforcing his truth.
As for EoE, it's far less introspective in that it really is about the pain of interacting with others, not just how they see you. Shinji can, and has, run away to be alone, to avoid feeling pain, because at every opportunity he's been given to open up or trust others there's some kind of pain associated with it. (Kaworu being the biggest example as Shinji was loved unconditionally and trusted Kaworu unconditionally) However, the big takeaway Shinji gets from Instrumentality and this idea of a perfect, formless unity is that any shred of joy is also missing. He can't experience the euphoria of praise, the warmth of love, nor the self-actualized happiness he reaches in NGE without someone to share it with. Even if it hurts, those fleeting, fragile moments of companionship are more worth it than never feeling anything ever again. EoE's final message is that yes, people can hurt you, but they can also uplift you, and those risks are worth taking.
Anyone that doesn't understand either NGE's final two episodes or EoE simply has a poor grasp on human nature, relationships, and the concept of the self.

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>>286771931
If you dont love yourself then it's unrealistic to expect someone else to love you. How can they understand who you are better than you can?

Basically, don't be a pitiful wretch, find something to take pride in and cherish

>>286774153
I mean, did he love the idea of Shinji being broken or did he love him for his interests and personality?

>>286771931
The way I understood it is that him being able to see humanity through the lens of everyone being both connected and separate allows him to reflect that on himself

>>286771931
if memory serves he didn't even learn to love himself. he came to believe he could possibly love himself in the future i.e. even if he was worthless now he didn't have to stay that way

>>286772070
I knew it when he tried asserting Rei to be weak while asuka is the strong empowered one or something.

>>286778642
yeah it's more specifically this

>>286774281
>>286774335
Ted admitted he didn't understand social interaction or why people do the things they do, so through extensive study he learned how to fake it till he made it, and was a social success in the short term at least. Dire implications.

>>286771931
ask your therapist

>>286773636
>What is there to be happy about in the post-apocalypse that is EoE's ending?
A few hours on earth alone before the other fags come out of the tang.

why do people still think that shinji and asuka get together in the end

>>286779067
Because Asuka actually loves Shinji and Shinji, despite his autism, wants to pork Asuka

>>286773592
lol faggot

>>286771931
I think the doujin F-nerd (canon btw), corrects everything.

>>286779067
We technically don't "know" anything that happens past what we see but the subtext heavily implies it. One of the basic ethos for both endings is that pain and being distinct from another person are necessary conditions for things like love and fulfillment. Under this framework lets look Shinji's realistic options. Rei is a quasi human mother figure that has a limited capacity for love and to be loved and would also be a reversion into safe nostalgia. Kaworu is a fantasy angel come down to earth to help a broken soul with "painfree" and "unconditional" love. Asuka is complicated she will demand things of herself and you and can love but it's not instant and it is conditional, you have to actually work to build something meaningful with Asuka and only being with her actually fits in with what the show establishes.

The only two things that makes sense are either Shinji and Asuka end up together or they don't work out and Shinji ends up with someone completely different not seen in the show, anything else arguably completely undermines what the show is trying to do.

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>>286773789
Misread. Shinji and Asuka are being truly honest with eachother for the first time in that moment, rather then deflecting, hiding, or otherwise putting up walls like they always, ALWAYS had before.

It's optimistic because they are making the first steps toward changing, and "as long as you have the will to live, anywhere can be paradise"
"As long as the sun, moon, and earth exist, everything will be alright"

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I LOVE ASUKA AND ASUKA LOVES ME!

>>286779067
Define "in the end."
In NGE there's nothing beyond the alternate reality where they bicker like an old married couple. They're not really together.
In EoE there's presumably no one left, and Asuka touching Shinji's face while he's choking her, showing compassion at the end of it all, is (in my opinion) a definitive sign of love, and after the events of Instrumentality, Shinji wants to love and to be loved. It would only make sense. Technically together.
In 3.0+1.0 Anno said "fuck you, get groomed, be a normie" and we got the Shinji x Mari ending. Asuka x Shinji definitively didn't happen.
In the newly released special animation featuring Soryu & Shikinami, we see Asuka in a relationship with and settling down with Shinji as potential timelines, only for her to ultimately decide that she wants to pursue her happiness on her terms, without wish fulfillment. Again, Asuka x Shinji doesn't happen.
That's 1/4 endings where Asuka and Shinji are unquestionably together.
Now to actually answer your question, I'd say EoE would be the most logical source as to why people think Asuka and Shinji get together. It's the only concrete ending, after all. The animated special gave the shippers a ton of fuel, but they're so fanatical they failed to realize it was a potential timeline and Asuka ultimately turned it down. The real answer, however, is pure delusion. People will lie to themselves if it makes them feel better.

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>>286779067
You have to choose to come back to reality from instrumentality . She chose to emerge from primordial ooze right next to him. She chose to be with him.

It's not subtle that she loves shinji , that's why she's always taunting and teasing him and wishing he were more assertive and suggesting they kiss etc etc

The problem is asuka wants shinji to love her but shinji doesn't know how to love anyon. he doesn't even want to love her specifically, asuka scolds that she was just the most available compared to rei or misato. which is absolutely true

>>286780976
Asuka's problem (one of her problems) is immense self hatred

The reason why she is able to embrace shinji while still acknowledging how disgusting he is, is because she considers herself pathetic too.

>>286780976
>they're so fanatical they failed to realize it was a potential timeline and Asuka ultimately turned it down

She turned it down because she didn't want to live in a fantasy handed to her, she wanted to achieve her dreams in the real world.

I think normgroids and ret/a/rds shouldn't watch Evangelion, they don't understand the subtext of character relationships at all, even when they're shown entire mindscape sequences where everything is laid bare to them. Stick to romcoms.

>>286781064
Why does Asuka love shinji?

>>286781260
1. He's cute
2. He's brave
3. She recognizes her own struggles in him
4. They went together through some traumatic events, which creates bonds between people

>>286781260
Her main fear is being abandoned. It's why she copes by pretending to be the best Eva pilot. If she's the best, people will "need" her. She recognizes shinji as another lonely person, a comrade, an equal, who actually outdoes her in the EVA. And they live together.

Basically he's a person in the perfect position to mend her deepest fears, if only he would act and make his feelings clear. She is obsessively waiting and hoping for that to happen. But he literally can't do it, which is why she's so pissed off and volatile to him.

>>286781132
I agree with you. I said,
>she wants to pursue her happiness on her terms, without wish fulfillment
That said, she still doesn't end up with Shinji in that continuity, timeline, loop, whatever you wish to call it. She rejects the easy way of getting with him, choosing to pursue her goals as she wants, but there's still nothing in the animation that tells us they get together or that they will get together within the 12 minutes of runtime.

>>286781578
We are approaching headcanon territory and this short is probably not ""canon"" to begin with anyways, but it at least plainly depicts Asuka's internal feelings.

Those feelings being: she dreams about being with Shinji in a healthy relationship - in the short term, like going on trips together in Tokyo-3 , but also in the long term, like marriage, kids, etc.

She rejects those dreams being handed to her in a false reality, not the content of the dreams themselves.

Anyway, her reality is some kind of post third-impact earth where most of humanity is goo, so it's difficult to discuss just how exactly she would chase those kind of dreams there, but last we saw her she was with Shinji...

>>286781698
It's upon reading this post that I realize I'm conversing, and now I suppose arguing, with an Asuka x Shinji shipper. You're allowed to like the ship, but you need to look at what's canon and understand the reality of each "canon" timeline and ending, in which there's only two where they end up together. (those being EoE and the Manga) With that said,
>this short is probably not ""canon"" to begin with anyways
Agreed, but if that's the case then anything that happens within it cannot be definitive proof of any result.
>it at least plainly depicts Asuka's internal feelings
>she dreams about being with Shinji in a healthy relationship
>She rejects those dreams being handed to her in a false reality, not the content of the dreams themselves
Again, agreed. She turns down the hand-out because she wants to achieve things on her terms and in the real world.
>Anyway, her reality is some kind of post third-impact earth where most of humanity is goo, so it's difficult to discuss just how exactly she would chase those kind of dreams there, but last we saw her she was with Shinji...
By this logic the short is Asuka's version of "Instrumentality introspection" and would therefore be canon to EoE. However, nothing definitively says it's canon, and by your own argument it's likely not canon. So what do you actually mean by "last we saw her she was with Shinji"?
Remember, it's OK to like the ship, but don't be delusional about it.

>>286781995
I'm not into fandom BS these are just my own opinions

>By this logic the short is Asuka's version of "Instrumentality introspection" and would therefore be canon to EoE.
>However, nothing definitively says it's canon, and by your own argument it's likely not canon. So what do you actually mean by "last we saw her she was with Shinji"?

If we're going under the assumption it's canon or representative of canon, (which is doubtful) the short would have to take place after instrumentality, since she mentioned being strangled by shinji. That's all I meant. The reality she mentions wanting to return to would therefore be somewhere among that post third-impact hellscape, and we don't really know what her circumstances may be there.

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>>286782133
>she mentioned being strangled by shinji.
She was talking about picrelated.

>>286782202
Hmm, could be. I never saw the short as related to or taking place inside of instrumentality personally, since she's talking about finding a different, "better" ending for herself, and her ending was being strangled, literally.

>>286771931
He doesn't love himself, he's WILLING to learn by TRYING to connect with others.

>Everything You've Ever Dreamed and Komm Susser Tod playing in the key moments
>Asuka seeking happier circumstances for her "ending up with Shinji" situation
>the whole short is her trying out different gag realities and genuine ones where they're dating and having kids together, on which she focuses more and is shown to be happy about
>says she doesn't want to live in a fantasy word without Evas and wants to be happy in her own reality
>NOOOO GUISE SHE TOTALLY REJECTS HIM
It's upon reading these posts that I realize I'm conversing, and now I suppose arguing, with an insane kencuck. You're allowed to dislike the "ship" (which it isn't, it's one of the central canon relationships of the original series), but you need to look at what's canon and understand the reality of each "canon" timeline and ending. And Asuka CANONICALLY wants Shinji's children, so my condolences.

>>286781260
Didn't you see her face in the magma diver episode?

>>286781236
wotakoi fucking sucks

>>286781535
do women REALLY?

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>>286781535
this makes sense. She's trying to get him to recognize her so he doesn't abandon her like her mother.

What's the actual explanation for Kaworu going to terminal dogma and being surprised that Lilith is there if you don't wanna just accept that Anno fucked up and introduced a plothole by having seele tell him adam's body is in gendo's arm during the lake scene?
I never liked the Casablanca theory (Kaworu explaining to Rei that the body is Lilith with faux surprise).
I like the idea that you need a core and not just a body and soul and that's why he took Unit 02 (fpr the core) and explains his line about living on inside of unit 02 if shinji didn't take it down.

>>286785892
he was just zoned out and not paying attention during the briefing

>>286780976
>The animated special gave the shippers a ton of fuel, but they're so fanatical they failed to realize it was a potential timeline and Asuka ultimately turned it down
everyone already knows that
your mistake is missing how the short is literally informing on EoE, even if you don't believe in the reading of it happening inside insturmentality.
It's literally Anno spelling it out for the retards and bad faith troons that EoE really is a hopeful ending

>>286780976
>>286781578
>>286781698
>>286781995
>>286786076
just read anon's analysis he posted in these threads a couple weeks ago
https://rentry.co/sk3qs6fr

it doesn't matter if it is or isn't canon to the events of EoE, it's literally a meta analysis

>>286771931
Filtered

>>286785892
They made a mistake by showing him pictures of Shinji before briefing him on Adam situation so he was mentally goonmaxxing the whole time and didn't hear them

>>286774837
Looks like the Deadpool Killer won't have that problem despite murdering two women.

Dear women, at least some of you do think with the little head. And you have one. It's called the clitoris.

In the manga, how does the Kaworu termina dogma scene go again? Is he aware of adam's body being in gendo's hand there or no

>>286786182
Schizoid fanfic

>>286788506
first of all you're mixing up schizoid with schizo, second of all how? it's just an analysis of content; there's not even that much interpretation

you guys are EOEfags right?
what do you guys think of the manga's ending? I kind of don't like reset endings at all so it was always worse for me compared to EOE

>>286790263
manga was pretty lackluster overall imo. he's a great illustrator and designer, not so much a writer.

>>286771931
neon genesis evangelion built up for moksha/nirvana but then backpedals because depressing to layman, so they had to remake the last episode and ran out of budget on top of that so they went with the doodle and live action pics to praise life
the funny thing is there is no convincing raison d'etre to be found in philosophy because raison d'etre is personal, you can't logically "force" someone to adopt meaning
shinji's ending is forced and it shows

>>286782325
could also be
gets choked -> 'I want a better ending' -> cue the funny and fantastical scenarios -> 'never mind, I will persevere in my reality'

>>286790263
No, I am a TVchad.

>>286790263
It's fine not great but just fine, if it was it's own media I'd probably like it a bit more but it's impossible to not compare it with the absolute behemoths of NGE and EOE.

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>>286773178
Alternatively, picrel

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>>286773636
>The world is destroyed
Already was
>Humanity all but wiped out.
No it isn't. Humanity is a soup, and two souls just made the choice to be born. Others will too
>Shinji is even strangling Asuka
Without hurting her at all. Almost like he wasn't strangling her, and only touching the person with whose mind he had been united, only minutes ago
>as she says "kimochi warui" because the situation is just terrible
She doesn't even know the situation. But she did just emerge from a hivemind, where she knew every thought and feeling and sensation of everyone else - and then she chose to be born into a world of limits. That's a bit of a shock all in all
EoE is a happy ending, and basically you're stupid

>>286780976
That's special animation is not canon. You can cope with alternative reality reasoning all you want but it's at best a comedic slop.