How is it that a child can grasp that a scorpion stings because it’s a scorpion, yet grown men watch Frieren and still try to empathize with irredeemable evil? It’s not a choice; it’s their biology.
>>287155655The demons are hot. If they were ugly nobody would care.
>>287155798>>>/pol/
>>287155655The scorpion can't actually hold a conversation
>>287155655I only care to know if humans can breed demons. Consider the possibility, through selective breeding you could create a race of immortal lolis that possesses human emotions. Truly the pinnacle of interspecies breeding.
Can you fug the scorpion? No? Thought so
>>287155655Have you seen Aura's titties? ZAMNNNNN. she has a nice face too.
>>287155655The child doesn't think with a dick for quite some time
Is Jeremy making these threads?
>>287155655Demons in Frieren are more intelligent than the scorpion. Their issue isn't compulsion. It is a lack of reason not to do something and some inherent pleasure in doing it. Macht doesn't really enjoy killing people in a sadistic, and he wanted to find a way to live that avoided that. But when push came to shove, he enjoyed his fights and he enjoyed fighting to kill humans. And ultimately he never felt empathy for those he didn't kill. Ultimately it was pure self-satisfaction that was inevitably going to be empty because he didn't get the pleasure a human would from helping others. Only the equally corrupt and nearly demonic nobleman he worked with ever penetrated his heart.
>>287155953>in a sadistic sense
>>287155655I have pet skorpions and they're not like that, now what
>>287155767What if I find the scorpion hot
>>287155655Because those grown men are taught to only ever associate "evil" fictional races with black people
>>287155767This, notice how demonfags never bring up Qual.
>>287155655Grown men have interacted with irredeemably evil humanoids, so when they read a poorly written manga they note that the way demons are described in text does not match the way they act within the manga. Some people assume this is due to the author's incompetence so they overlook the inconsistencies, while others come up with elaborate theories of unreliable narrators to explain why such a manga could be held in high regard.
>>287155655The scorpion isn't hot? Duh?
Is "the scorpion and the frog" the most racist story of all time?
>>287155655The series works against its own narrative.We see demons have a capacity for reasoning and emotions and aren't just monsters who happen to look like humans and pretend to understand words.
>>287156586it's anti-semitic
>>287155655Dude makes a fantasy with different races then tries to make one of them irredeemable evil like it's some child fairytale.Then when you point out how it doesn't make any sense, you get called demon apologist or something.
>>287156099And are these left or right wingers we're talking about?
>>287157116you're still on that retarded NPC dichotomy? NGMI
>>287155655I agree. She's just acting within her nature.
>>287155655>grown men watch frierenthat's precisely what's wrong with the world. also>irredeemable evilfrieren (the series, not the protagonist) has the moral compass of a steam engine, and people who watch it adopt that moral compass like the manchildren they are. >>287157020this.
>>287155655Because Demons are not "irredeemable evil" and the only one's opinion we get on them is a massive racist.
>>287155655I wish there was a show that was about this exact topic.> ontologically evil race> people know to kill them and never trust them> bleeding hearts want to believe the evil demons are just misunderstood > but they're ontologically evil> even if a single mutant member of that race is not destructive, it's seen as an aberration that cannot be sustained > debate in story is about clash of egalitarianism against a group that is provably indisputably evil and how some people can't accept that and keep suffering for their refusal to believe the facts
>>287158234And by that I mean the Frieren debate exists *in universe* too as the thrust of the story
>>287156956The whole thing is a metaphor you see, a frog and a scorpion cannot communicate.SO what we're left is characteristics, such as a large, curved appendage.
>>287156653They are monster because they deliberately hunt you and make sure you scream because that gives your meat more umami. I doubt you would want to be too close to a confessed cannibal even if they're from your own species. The only truly humane expression shown by demons is when they die.
>>287155655>Demons eating humans like livestock"Lel, it's in their nature">virgins on /a/ looks at said cute Demon and say, "I can fix her""Lel, it's in their nature"When you finally get some and settle down, hopefully you'll see how little value looks actually matter.
>>287155655>How is it that a child can grasp that a scorpion stings because it’s a scorpionI don't think that is the moral of the story
>>287157020>he doesn't know that Narnia is based on fairytalesngmi
>>287158906You calling kami Christ some fairytale or something?
>>287155655Because the scorpion does not sting because it is its nature, it stings because it knows how to swim.
>>287155655>a scorpion stings because it’s a scorpionA scorpion stings when it is threatened.
>>287159879Lol
>>287155883>can humans breed with demonsLook at the difference between obvious pure demons like Qual, next to all the ones whose ancestors had to have fucked enough humans to turn them into normal humans with horns.The 4 armed snake man lands somewhere in the middle of the extremes.
>>287155655they don't want to fuck a scorpion
Altruism is a luxury
>>287155655I just watched the first season. I couldn't get over Frieren killing the cute demon instead of making her a personal sex slave
Can't scorpions hold their breath for 2 days?
>>287155767This.People here would be surprised at how easily to manipulate 99% of normalfags are if they find the person attractive.It is why, every time you watch a documentary on some decently looking serial killer, the women he tricks seem fucking retarded. Visuals and attractiin override a lot of logical thinking inside people's brains.
>>287155655This fucking thread again. I should just save my post to re-use for the future.(1)From the meta perspective, the point of demons in Frieren - as of the moment - is to punish good and civilized behaviors. Demons exist in the story to tell you that showing mercy to the vanquished is evil, that trying to negotiate with a belligerent force is evil, that abstaining from betrayal under the flag of truce is evil, that trying to converse or reason with an outsider is evil, that simply questioning whether something is truly evil is itself evil. An author cannot expect to create a narrative with such a message, and not have it questioned by anyone who has actual morals, and spent more than five minutes thinking about his story.(2)From the setting perspective, demons make no sense. Or, being generous to the author, we're seeing an incomplete picture and hearing incoherent, biased viewpoints for now. You're seriously telling me, that a man-eating predator in human skin would be surprised and fascinated by receiving positive emotional reinforcement from butchering humans he evolved to hunt? That a wild beast can muse on fairly abstract topics, like hard work vs genius? That an aggressive mimic, who only parrots human speech to make humans drop their guard, might wonder aloud, why an opponent is using a less efficient way of fighting her, instead of a more efficient one? Lol wut. Of course, people would call that shit writing.>>287155767>The demons are hot. If they were ugly nobody would care.This fucking argument again. Nobody argues that, say, demons in Thunderbolt Fantasy are not evil, even though the entire non-faggot part of the fanbase wants to bone Xing Hai.
>>287161003>I should just save my post to re-use for the future.You already make identical threads time and again, not sure how this is a big revelation to you
>>287155655Ok but we know Frieren is on some level wrong about their nature being fully immutable. We see Demons showing emotions in private when it doesn’t make sense as a manipulation tactic(pride, anger, etc). They are clearly not robots, regardless of their lack of morality.
>>287156050why is she pregnant
Demon who specializes in eating only evil people and villains in order to get a good guy reputation.
>>287161094a demon wouldn't be able to comprehend evil or villainy well enough to make that distinction. they'd kill a bandit trying to rob them and an orphan asking for bread and wouldn't understand why one was acceptable and the other wasn't
>>287155953>It is a lack of reason not to do something and some inherent pleasure in doing it.If humans receive some inherent pleasure from helping others, then why I am so often the one to clean up their figurative and literall messes, despite most cerainly feeling no pleasure in doing it?
>>287161150Humanity is not inherently good.
>>287155655Impregnate cute demons girls
>>287160571the demonussy got me acting unwise
>>287155655Demons seem closer to me than humans are. I'm too different. People can never understand my feelings and thoughts. Even if I can do that for them. Natural evil makes so little sense to hate to me. I don't care about the narratives people build to justify so and so things. Why would I want humans to live if they are better as food? Why would I want demons to die if they are biologically incapable of love? After all, it would be easier to deal with a purely rational creature. And if not rational, then I can deal with an animal. I'm still a big chud though. I just know better reasons to think the way I do.
>>287158412>They are monster because they deliberately hunt you and make sure you scream because that gives your meat more umami. Why then demons evidenlty prefer tea and cookies to human meat?You are headcanoning demons being written in a way that provokes visceral revulsion. But that is not the case until Macht. And even then, we're left empathizing a lot more with Macht himself than with nameless NPCs who are killed by him on the same page they appear.
>>287161003High trust just doesn't mix with low trust.
>>287161003Other races just have demon fatigue, like in real life
>>287155655No one questions why an animal does what it does, there is no rationality or higher intellect to query. Its all instinct. But a demon isn't totally animalistic, they are technically rational. You can ask them questions and break down their thoughts. In that sense, they're more like homicidal psychopaths than monsters. The average person hears or sees 'psycho' and runs, but some people like to think that with enough nice thoughts you can fix anyone's behaviour. These kinds of people will find themselves getting used.
>>287155655There's no reason to self-insert or root for the humans in the show out of necessity - they're fictional.I see 4 humanoid races in this show and the demons are the coolest.
>>287155655The demon camouflage works.
>>287161695This. Its actually kind of amazing. We very easily could have ended up with a version of Frieren where the whole point of demons is that they deceive humans by default and anons would be complaining about "if everyone knows that demons are evil, why do they keep falling for their tricks? This is stupid, everyone is stupid."Instead we have multiple threads as week of anons simping hard for demons trying to come up with excuses to squeeze past the 'demons are all evil liars' elephant in the room. Every Frieren thread just proves that the demon's anti-human strategy would be effective in-universe without issue.
>>287155655The answer is: Frierenfags are retard normgroids.
>>287161618>These kinds of people will find themselves getting used.You will find yourself being used by the most empathetic normalfags as well. Everyone's an animal and it's impossible to do something that isn't for the nature of your being.
>>287161062My fault, sorry.
“The demons are the bad guys.”>I see. So we’re going with the unreliable narrator and misguided characters and the demons will eventually be shown to be good. “No, they’re just the bad guys. They kill people for kicks.”>Right. Then the main characters will uncover the truth about how the demons were mistreated which led them to reluctantly fight back.“No. They’ve actually been shown to betray everyone that shows them even a modicum of trust.”>So then we just have yet to meet the true demon faction that will ally themselves with the heroes.“No. They’re just bad guys that try to kill you. >I don’t follow.
>>287162162What years of moral relativism does to a motherfucker.
>demonposters preach "redeemability">look inside>it's actually just enslavement and forced conversion
>this fucking thread againBecause you are an illiterate retard. It is about portrayal, the way the author portrays these demons not only disproves that they are irredeemable, but they have the capacity to understand human emotions. If the goal was to create an irredeemable monster, then the author has failed completely, and should go read some Warhammer and how the Demon Princes are written.
>irredeemable monsters can only be written 1 obvious way
>>287155655I mean, people voted for trump.
>>287162414> but they have the capacity to understand human emotionsAnimeonly spotted.
>>287162494I have read the manga way before you, retard. >>287162479The way you write something is important when you are trying to convey something.
I honestly wonder how people struggle so much with Demons being irredeemable. But then I remember that the Touhou fandom exists and doesn't seem to understand 99% of youkai are meant to be irredeemably evil as well.
>>287162519The disconnect is1. Emotions aren't unique to humans so you can't consider human variants the baseline2. demons feel *certain* emotions SIMILAR to humans, but NOT ALL of them
Demons are just a metaphor for foreigners in Japan, aren't they? The whole spiel about language makes it painfully obvious.One of the WW2 soldiers that refused to surrender and hid out in the jungle for 30 years wrote a memoir after being forcibly reintegrated into modern Japanese society. In it he essentially condemned modern Japan for embracing the values of their enemies and becoming livestock. Frieren gives me the impression that the author was very much influenced by that.
>>287162555That still means that they are far from irredeemable monsters. And have the capacity for growth, just as I said. Which is yet again shown, especially during the El Dorado arc. And all in all, the more the author tries to insist on it, the more it just keeps hurting the story.
Honestly for all this talk i don't see how the demons are worse than the others.
>>287162618>Demons are just a metaphor for foreigners in Japan,Nazis, actually.
>>287162634>And have the capacity for growth, just as I said. Which is yet again shown, especially during the El Dorado arcMacht got as close as any demon ever has to understanding and co-existing with humans, even having human friends. He still couldn't see the problem with murdering them and didn't feel regret about it at any time. Macht shows the hard limits on the 'capacity for growth' that demons currently have. Maybe younger demons of a new generation will evolve to be closer to humans, but the older demons can't bridge the gap. They don't have the ability.
>>287161150If it isn't your job, then a sense of responsibility towards others and fulfilling it still feeds back into your sense of eudaemonia.
>>287162287also known as "domestication". demons are beasts and should be treated as such
>>287162634>That still means that they are far from irredeemable monsters. And have the capacity for growth, just as I saidNo it doesn't that's just your optimistic worldview. (conjecture)You think because demons approach similarity to us, they can then reach the same conclusion as us. But the series attempts to inform you time and time again, that demons will ALWAYS be on a different path. No matter how much they "grow" or evolve" they are diametrically opposed to humans.
>>287155655Because an adult intuits that they're being fed race realism propaganda. It's easy to concede that the fictional setting's fictional magical creatures are ontologically different, because it's fiction. But the clear underpinning is that the story wants you to extrapolate that dynamic to real people in real contexts because the point isn't that demons are ontologically evil, but that the demons represent real people who look different than you and possess different values yet still desire to access the benefits of your civilization, and that you should violently reject these people because hidden underneath superficial similarities is an ontologically evil race that can't comprehend your values or rise above some inherent instinctual desire to do evil to you.For good ol' xenophobic Japan struggling with demographic collapse, it's cute. For places in the world in which engaging with different cultures and branches of humanity has been a millenium-long project, the premise is so obviously wrong it treads into absurdity. Frieren is desperate to convince you that "demons" are born evil and doomed to succumb to their evil nature, because the alternative would be to accept that evil is shaped by culture and condition, and a "demon" could be taught to reject evil and do good with the right support and influence. A terrifying prospect to someone that clearly cares as much about Japan's immigration policy as the author does.
>>287156203i do, Qual was awesome and should had killed both the elf and that fat perverted slut
>>287155655Dead frogs float in water.
>>287155655The only reason you say this shit is because author's forcing this irredeemable narrative.In universe there's no reason to believe this nature argument holds any weight beyond the present xenophobia.
>>287156203>>287162774Qual was like an old soldier from the opposite side that understands the inevitable conclusion and has no qualms. Him and Frieren could have a casual chat and share information, but ultimately they had to finish the battle. It's something you can respect in a way.
>>287162708>eudaemoniaHeh
>>287162826I thought it was clever
>>287162746There are hard limits on what animals can and cannot be domesticated, there are strict conditions that have to already be present in the animal for domestication to be viable. Demons don't satisfy any of them, and indeed actively sit on the opposite end of the spectrum for most of the conditions. It would actually be vastly easier for demons to domesticate *humans* than the other way around.
>>287162761>RaceIt's not racial but political. Demons are a obvious stand in for far right people.
>>287162865no there is not, if you think about it, all currently domesticated animals have had human cock inside them at one point or another or had been let to hump humans, those that didn't were not domesticated...yetthat is the secret to domestication and it's how demons should be domesticated too
>>287161846>>287162883Normalniggers only pretend to have empathy and demons stand for them.
>>287162555Feeling is not necessary. Making a mental map of how the other race responds to stimuli is sufficient. Indeed the story basically says that full understanding between different races is impossible and obsession with achieving it can become evil in itself, when you refuse to see others as people, until you're sure that your patterns of thinking are exactly the same. At some point you just have to rely on reason and trust in others. So basically the whole emotional angle of discussion is worthless, when your main character has as much or less emotional range than demons, but she still isn't murdering humans left and right.The problem with demons is that they appear to be fully reasonable beings, capable of cooperation on the basis of weighting benefits vs. risks, until the discussion reaches the whole "killing humans" thing, and then their reason just instantly shuts off, and they start convoluting obviously insane plans leading to more human death. You can most clearly see it with Macht. Does he honestly want to coexist? Not even Frieren doubts that. Does he have a workable model of how human mind works in his head? After living in Weisse, yes. He can easily spot subtle social clues. Can he realize that killing humans is counterproductive to coexisting with them? Lol, no. Either this is shit writing, or the author is building towards some big revelation on the nature of demons. Since the introduction of shadow warriors in the manga, who also operate as if they had an evil switch in their head, despite being fully human, I'm more inclined towards the former
>>287163020>Normalniggers only pretend to have empathyNo it's based sigma chuds
>>287155767This.Observe how very few people have ever simped for orcs in LOTR.
>>287163044>I'm more inclined towards the formerThe latter. Fuck. I need to get some sleep.
>>287162883You see, this is the cute thing. Anybody can read the story and insert their own preferred demon to be what the demons represent. In doing so you've already internalized the propaganda.And no, dehumanizing chuds is no more acceptable than dehumanizing SEAmonkeys, funny as they both are. The story dwells in a world where banter is not just banter and you can cleanly divide society into those who agree with you, useful idiots who disagree with you because they're naive and don't know any better, and those who you could stuff in a wood chipper without consequence. It's as pleasing a fantasy as "slavery is okay in this isekai because I'm a good master and my slave catgirl loves me" and equally specious.
>>287163059you tell me you never felt bad for the Uruk-hai that said "I'm starving, we ain't ate nothin' but maggoty bread for three stinkin' days !" and wanted the boy to have some meat ? The dirty fucker marched for God knows how much time with little rest, faced the party and probably barely survived Boromir, was marched some more while starvin' and then died by being trampled by horsesI always feel for him a bit whenever I think about it
>>287162938Porn has rotted your brain to uselessness.
What's the point of a story like this about learning and growing if you aren't going to apply it to macroscale and instead support killing the evil race?Like even if they are actually evil doesn't these contradict the important themes you want your work to have.It's so bizarre to see Frieren crying then a few episodes later them fighting the demons like that.
>>287163205naa, you are just a prudish twat that is afraid of sexuality and parrots shit you hear to feel better and superior about yourself, if you'd had thought just for a little bit, you'd had realized that i am right and every domesticated animal save for pidgeons got humaned
>>287163183>Anybody can read the story and insert their own preferred demon to be what the demons representObviously. That's not a bad thing.>And no, dehumanizing chudsChuds are just pathetic losers. I'm talking more about actual nazis. >The story dwells in a world where banter is not just banter and you can cleanly divide society into those who agree with you, useful idiots who disagree with you because they're naive and don't know any better, and those who you could stuff in a wood chipper without consequence.That is largely applicable to real life though. Just look at Europe before World war 2. The actual fantasy though is that the lines are so clear and obvious. The evil people self select, and are open about how evil they are.
>>287163059This really just outs you as someone that's never interacted with lotr fandom.
>>287163044>Either this is shit writingIt's not shit writing though, demons just view life purely in the quality of a hierarchical food-chain, on a seemingly base DNA programming level. Why do people struggle with this?I think maybe because humans have the ability to toggle between food-chain and meaningful connection? So it's difficult to fathom an entity that can get part of the way there but not do the rest?
>>287163234>story is about a thing>so everyone in the story has to do thing the same
>>287163257>save for pidgeons
>>287163059>Observe how very few people have ever simped for orcs in LOTR.Tolkien himself simped for orks. Hell, even the Rankin Bass animated movie threw in a song that, funny as it is, also largely showed the orks to mostly just be victims. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoAfb3f04mo
>>287163326No they don't but it's just confusing.
Imagine enjoying a boring show when you could be reading Fairy Tail instead.
>>287163346>Tolkien himself simped for orks.Not quite true. The nature of orcs as a damned race came in paradoxical conflict with Tolkien's belief that no one is born damned. Therefore there must be some good orcs out there. Frieren doesn't follow that philosophy. All demons are evil and cannot be changed, that's it.
>>287163192>>287163346Orcs genuinely have it pretty rough. They are not responsible for their origins, they were literally created by an evil god in a mockery of other life, or worse were tortured into existence.They are forced to live in a hellhole with no usable farm land that is in perpetual darkness because everyone else attacks them on sight, which forces them to raid for supplies, which only reinforces the 'attack on sight' as being valid.The ONLY person that promises them a future is fucking Sauron a dark lord bend on global conquest that doesn't give two shits about them beyond being cannon fodder for his armies.Like, genuinely, if you were an Orc in Middle Earth what the FUCK are you supposed to do? There's no way out of this. Even if you just went up and found a mountain to live a chill live in a remote cabin by the river, you'd probably get hunted and killed by elves for it.
>>287162774Qual's based and only lost because they cheated and spent 50 years crowd-sourcing a way to beat him from the best and brightest of humanity only in the process finding that his spells were the strongest and most efficient that could exist.
>>287163346more like Tolkien ran into a plot hole in his religion and desperately had to build a cover for it before it crumbled his moral framework
>>287163462>>287163414That as well, but for what it's worth I don't think even wrote Orks as pathologically evil. They were mostly just kind of stupid thugs.
>>287155655Are you saying that you have the stomach to kill someone this cute?
I know you losers think Aura would never love you but you're losers and I'm not.
>>287163459He only just got out and was already starting to bypass all their fancy shieldsif he had 10 more minutes or Frieren wouldn't had used fly, he would had 100% won or at the very least kill Fern
>>287163540Yeah, they legitimately showcased just how dangerous he really was in a way that felt deserved. If he had escaped, he absolutely would have adapted to the new meta and been right back to one-shotting first class mages to death in like a week.
>>287163503Thankfully most female demons are femme fatales, and rightfully trigger the danger signal.If Demons ever figured out how to make an army of Doux mimics, it'd be owari da for humans.
>>287163510
>>287163414Originally tolkein began his planning before the outbreak of WW1. He was strongly influenced by both his religion and the jingoist nationalist fervor that gripped britain at the time. Orcs were explicitly germanic and explicitly evil. They were the one-dimensional earthly servants of a satanic, transcendental badness. Born evil, created evil, willingly serving evil with no nuance.Then he actually fought in the trenches of the 1st world war and his views on morality were shattered. Sauron's evil was reimagined as something less biblical and more imperial, and orcs were re-envisioned less as an ontological evil and more as a moral low point any person or race could reach, the state of being seduced into and consumed by a lust for domination and violence. He leaves the origin of the Orcs deliberately vague to avoid inviting ethnic parallels. I believe at one point he says of his experience in the first world war that "we were all orcs, all of us" or something to that effect. Orcs are a symptom of evil, rather than a part of it.The movies make this easier to digest by just saying Orcs are Elves that embraced evil transformed into monsters or somesuch. It's technically apocryphal but also captures the essence of Tolkein's intent well enough to tell people not to pretend the Orcs are german.
>>287158234Something similar to what you're saying happens in the World War Z book.
>>287156956Yes. I love it.
>>287163044I had to re-read this arc with how much people talk about it. I seems that it black-boxes that an "ontological evil monster (or one with no concept of evil) with this murderous nature" can exist and works backwards from that premise. ..Virtually everything he says could be a lie and it's hard to categorically say that it can't.
>>287163540It's kind of crazy that he supplanted the entirety of thousands of years of magical development with a single spell. That it's become the "Offensive Magic" countered by the "Defensive Magic" like it's not even worth using anything else. Just that and adaptations of it.
>>287163743I know author-kun didn't think this far ahead, but Schlacht really should have prioritized keeping Qual alive so he could research Zoltraak 2.
>>287155655Some people just want to fuck the evil monster, and one important step for that is to pretend that you can fix her
>>287162761>Thinking demons represent a raceThey're analogous to the worst evils any sapient beings can become, those with all of the dark triad traits and utterly dominated by them. Their real-world equivalents are the ones mainly driving these BS threads because they've been spotted and are trying to hide again.
>>287163823The anon in her doujin would have been fine if he hadn't found the corpse shed
>Oh you just want to fuck themSo what trying is the first step towards goals
>>287163838>can becomeThis is just wrong, though. The demons didn't become evil. They were born evil. Evil is their phsyiological nature. They are powerless to resist their evil nature, they have no agency over their morality.The point of the conflict is that Demons are inherently evil and have no choice in the matter. They only learn enough of human nature to 'pass' in human society because that proximity gives them better access to victims but they are utterly and totally incapable of embracing or understanding those values. They cannot choose good, just like they didn't choose to be evil. They just exist to be that way. The narrative urges you to recognize that their overtures of civility as superficial and reject them because they are incapable of being anything except what they are born as--which is conveniently identifiable just by looking at them.Why we keep having these threads is that the very idea that Demons are sapient and intelligent is at odds with the idea that they have no agency over their morality. They need to be sapient in order to 'pass' well enough in society for this to be a conflict at all, but that sapience undermines the author's thesis that coexistence is impossible and empathy with the outgroup only makes you vulnerable. The narrative does not interrogate out this cognitive dissonance because it's not intentional. It's in the story because it's part of the author's beliefs, and they want you to believe it too.
>>287163820I think Schlacht's long term plan is the removal of all demons whose mindsets are incompatible with the coexistence the alleged demon king wanted
>>287158234The Elfen Lied manga does something around the lines of this.
>>287163990>Demons are sapient and intelligent is at odds with the idea that they have no agency over their morality.humans are just legitimately scared of an intelligent species that would fundamentally default to opposing morality. They don't even want to entertain it in fiction lol.
>another demon thread
>>287164138just warm up for season 3, where people will try to white knight solitar
Kill demons. Order demons to behead themselves. Make golems to kick demons into the bedrock. Slam dunk a demon baby into the trashcan. Crucify filthy demons. Defecate in a demons mouth. Launch demons into the sun. Bake demons in the oven. Toss demons into active volcanoes. Urinate into a demons mana pool. Magic blast demons into a wood chipper. Zoltraak demons heads off. Report demons to Frieren. Cast Judradjim to blow demons in half. Curb stomp pregnant demons. Trap demons in quicksand. Crush demons between two giant golems. Liquefy demons with acid magic. Dissect demons. Exterminate demons. Stomp demon skulls with golem feet. Cremate demons with Vollzanbel. Lobotomize demons. Develop abortion spell for demons. Grind demon fetuses into cloth dissolving potions. Bury demons under anti magic crystals. Vaporize demons with Zoltraak. Kick old demons down the stairs. Feed demons to dragons. Cut demons in two with Reelseiden.TOTAL DEMON DEATH
>>287164153Damn, I didnt even think about that. It might even be worse than the Aura simping
>>287156586not as bad as the monkey and the scorpion
>>287163838>>287163990Both of you are describing something impossible. Even if it's fiction, you gotta decide on the coherent essential characteristics to even talk about demons. How can demons imitate human behavior but can't comprehend human values? They don't need to follow them, just pretending is enough to fit in. Why do demons always fail to act in such a way that it'll make humans hate them less? All the contradictions are pointing at the fact that demons are so retarded they might just not have sentience. But we're talking like they do.
>>287164103>fundamentally default to opposing moralityWell for one, the idea that anything 'defaults' to a morality is silly. You can look around the world and see how often different groups of people hold different moral values. Morality serves a utilitarian function in society, which is why we value it so much. But it also means that morality varies based on the fundamental needs of a given society.Second: demon morality isn't depicted as particularly different from human morality in the series. The demons don't eat each other, for example. We have evidence they can cooperate with one another, even form armies and kingdoms. They're "bad" because they're adversarial to humans. Humans are also adversarial to demons. Now you might say, "but humans aren't as adversarial to demons as demons are to humans." But the story doesn't paint this as an attribute that makes humans morally superior and thus less deserving of contempt as demonkind. Rather than empathy is a mistake, the story condemns it and insists that humans only sympathize with demons because they've allowed themselves to be tricked. Nothing in the story makes mankind morally superior to demons except the fact that they are the incumbent civilization, the 'in group' and demons are their adversaries.Demons are also a minority while humans are the dominant civilization, both technologically and militarily but this is a power dynamic that's never interrogated, of course.
>>287164306>demon morality isn't depicted as particularly different from human morality in the seriesdamn anon, your version of Frieren is wild, wish the rest of us could have read/watched it
Frieren make more sense if you assume the demons were intelligently designed.
>>287164460by Milliarde's grandma
>>287155655>he never played with scorpionsSucks to be you, I guess. I've handled a shit ton of dangerous animals, and rarely did I get hurt. I've played with bulls, wild tarantulas and scorpions, venomous snakes at exhibitions, and bees. Maybe you've just got a skill issue.
>>287164013This. Its been my theory for a while based on what the manga has set up and shown that while all of the current demons are incompatible with human co-existence, they are very slowly *moving* in the direction of coexistence with humanity generation by generation, and at some point in the near future will begin to cross the line into it becoming possible. There are however two big problems with this plan: the first is of course that even once it is possible, the trust issue will never really be resolved. A demon that CAN choose to live peacefully with humans doesn't necessarily mean that they will, and it will be hundreds of years before anyone will really be able to shake the idea that this is not some kind of long con before an inevitable backstab.But the second problem with this plan is the older demons. Demons live for hundreds of years at least, perhaps longer. Even if the younger demons evolve to live alongside humans, if the older demons are still around doing their usual shit they actively work against coexistence every day they are alive by their nature. I think that the demon king and Schlacht concocted the war to engineer a situation that would exterminate the older generation of demons and force them to evolve into something that was less directly confrontational with humanity. It is likely that of the sages of destruction, only Schlacht was aware of this end goal. If this plan ever begins to come to fruition, I expect that a major crux of the story will be setting up and showing us a genuinely good demon that can viably live alongside humanity without harm... and Frieren will want to kill it anyway. She will simply continue to claim that no demon can be trusted, and that this demon is just a better liar than the rest, because when it comes right down to it Frieren does just genuinely hate demons. Not without cause, mind you, but its simply not in her nature to allow for the existence of 'good' demons. Thats not a part of her worldview.
>>287164304Because demons imitate humans *to kill and eat them*. No matter how good they get at the imitation game, their end goal is always supper. Expecting them to abandon their primary reason for seeking out humans in the first place is a failure to understand what they are because you have fallen for the ruse and decided that they are just humans with horns.
>>287164561>, I expect that a major crux of the story will be setting up and showing us a genuinely good demon that can viably live alongside humanity without harmThis would be such a massive letdown. Thankfully i don't think the author is that retarded.
>>287164460Why would they eat other humanoid when they could prey on something less capable of fighting back?Why would they eat other humanoids instead of using their sociopathy to manipulate other humanoids into feeding and taking care for them?
>>287164599Except demons can live off of alternative food sources so there's really no practical reason for them to go to such lengths and such risk to access humanity as a food source.The more you try and understand it, the more contrived it becomes.
>>287164684It's their nature to do it. There's no complex reason.
>>287164304Demon behavior would make more sense, if demons were heavily dominant. For example, demons in Versus act more or less like humans, with the exact same cognition and emotions, except they see actual humans as slaves, toys and punching bags, committing crimes way worse than any demon in Frieren, for no reason other than "what these shitty weaklings can do about it, lol".In Frieren, however, at the moment, demons are on backfoot, almost endangered. And yet they still prioritize murder of humans over more immediate survival concerns.>>287164460>Frieren make more sense if you assume the demons were intelligently designed. That seems to be the reveal the manga is building up to. Especially, if Lowe is not, in fact, totally fucking insane, and he is right about magic as a whole being something that was artificially introduced to the world. Then it stands to reason that creatures of magic, including demons, were artificial too. And demons make much more sense if you assume that they are not evolved mimics, but replicators intentionally designed for murder from the grounds up, who developed consciousness and emotions over time, but cannot yet defy their core programming.
>>287164730There are many things in my nature. I barely care about them.>>287164758>And yet they still prioritize murder of humans over more immediate survival concerns.Doesn't sound like a "species", sounds like magic bullshit. Goblins in Goblin Slayer are just much better exploration of the theme of evil creatures.
>>287164820They literally poof away into nothing when they die. They're quite "magic bullshit"
>>287164730It's in a cat's nature to hunt but if you feed it cat food it will sit around your house all day and get fat.Even if demons were simply animals acting towards basic survival instincts there's no reason to assume that generations of living in human society awash with civilizational luxuries wouldn't have begun to domesticate them like it does for every other animal.But not, demons must be immune to domestication because coexistence MUST be impossible? Why MUST coexistence be impossible? Because the propaganda doesn't work otherwise. The author just wasn't smart enough to craft a complex situation where coexistence is truly impossible and the internal logic is consistent and stands up to scrutiny. They just hoped the average japanese reader isn't smart enough to question it.
>>287164868I mean we have pitbulls. Some things just stubbornly resist domestication.
The whole "words are just spells to them" really does apply perfectly to dealing with narcissists and propagandists in-general. You don't have to make it about race. There are just some people like that.
>>287164914Pitbulls were bred for dogfighting (hence the "pit"). Their uncontrollable aggression is a deliberate product of human influence.If demons were a manmade magical weapon left to uneasily integrate into a peaceful society where the explicit aspects of their design no longer serve a purpose then you'd have a very different story.
>>287164868>It's in a cat's nature to hunt but if you feed it cat food it will sit around your house all day and get fat....and will still absolutely hunt if given the opportunity, anon. We've put cameras on cats as part of behavioral studies, and cats that are fed dry or canned cat food twice a day will STILL hunt at night if allowed outside, killing 2-4 small animals a day doing so. They are not hungry, so they will not eat what they kill. They just will hunt regardless because thats what they enjoy doing.
>>287164868>Why MUST coexistence be impossible?Why MUST you try to coexist with something made to kill you? Why do you want so much that different kind of people lives in the same country? I know the answer and I know what you are, no need to reply.
>>287164868It's in a cat's nature to hunt, it's relatively easy to domesticate (which has its own evolutionary explanation) and it's observed that they will sit around the house or follow lasers, etc. You seem to sum up "nature" as "hunting". I'm not saying that's all of it. There are also many other animals who are more or less harder to domesticate and finally we get to demons-which are hypothetical, so they don't have to be cats.
>>287165034>Why MUST you try to coexist with something made to kill you? Ultimately it's a question of in groups.People like demons. They are cool, sexy, and charismatic. If they befriended, and this is apparently possible, a demon they would be okay with that. Nobody cares about random peasants getting eaten.
>>287165090>humans should just befriend demons and let them eat random peasantsdemon hands wrote this post
>>287164561>I expect that a major crux of the story will be setting up and showing us a genuinely good demon that can viably live alongside humanity without harm... and Frieren will want to kill it anyway. She will simply continue to claim that no demon can be trusted, and that this demon is just a better liar than the rest, because when it comes right down to it Frieren does just genuinely hate demons. Not without cause, mind you, but its simply not in her nature to allow for the existence of 'good' demons. Thats not a part of her worldview.Really? Then why Frieren asks most demons she meets some version of "are you sure you want to die today"? Why pic related exists?
>>287165181But well, judging by Frieren's expression she clearly spoke too hastily about not having to grieve this time.Frieren would be overjoyed to realize that she no longer has to look forward to endless millenia of being forced into "kill or die" situations by horned faggots.
>>287165090>People like demons.No they don't. (((Demons))) pretends people needs them and likes them and some dumb rotten corrupted dirigeant tolerate them and pretends to like them because they control the narrative.Release the Aura files.
>>287164868>Why MUST coexistence be impossible?www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOmjnioNuloNot every animal can be domesticated, demons are too powerful, too intelligent and too long lived for domestication to be possible. Demons also spend centuries developing specialised magic so the best you'd get is a demon that's exceptional at masking developing special magic that helps them avoid suspicion. Co-existance with demons would lead to demons ruling over humans and farming them like cattle, there can be no other outcome.
>>287165034>Why MUST you try to coexist with something made to kill you?Oh boy wait until you learn about wolves
>>287165714Wolves don't actively hunt humans unless humans wiped out all the food so they have no choice.
>>287165736They don't hunt humans traveling in groups.But if the can find single humans, or old, or young, or sick humans, they'll happily kill and eat them
>>287165714Wolves were completely exterminated from my country during centuries until those fucking ecologists reintroduce them.Question stands : why would you even import them? It can be told for wolves, naggers, demons, anything bad in any way. We don't need to coexist with them.>>287165736What about my sheeps?
>>287165714>looks around>sees dogs I dunno, coexistence with wolves worked out pretty fine for us.The "main problem" with demons is that they are really clever and socially adept. If they can genuinely get over their murder impulses that make them fuck things up, they would be ones doing domesticating in a relationship with humans.
>>287165881If they were more intelligent than humans they wouldn't have lost the war.
>>287162671No, Japan liked the Nazi's.
>>287164868it's funny that people don't even understand how inherently humiliating it is to compare demons to animals that need The Human Touch™ (from the perspective of the demons). And that's really the big master plan for peace.
>>287155655The demons aren't even evil. They're the same as wild animals. You're not even supposed to hate them, but you are supposed to want to destroy any and all of them.
>>287166541Forgive them, anon. They are herbivore men that just want decile sex slaves with the brainpower of a housepet. To them, demons must be as manageable as a dog is, because anything more than that would be an insurmountable challenge they can scarcely conceive of.
>>287166589it's just so sad that all the delusional (((coexisters))) can't even fathom the basic idea that if humans would reject the idea if they had to do it, most other intelligent species would as well.
>>287162865There are hard limits on what animals can and cannot be domesticated because there are hard limits on the durability and power of the human body. If you can surpass a demon until it is equal in threat to a house cat then you can keep one as a pet/wife.
>>287166690The only way that coexistence with demonkind works with demons as they are (assuming they don't evolve into a less harmful version of themselves with time, like how all viruses just become the common cold eventually) is with the demons in charge and humanity as a kind of free range farm. The demons are the new nobility. They run shit. Everyone knows it. The humans are *largely* allowed to do as they see fit, so long as they don't get uppity about it or try to learn magic, and the demons demand tithes from cities and villages that supply them with more people who are taken in as 'servants'. And, indeed, many of those people actually do just get stuck working as slaves for the demons but the slaves all get eaten eventually even if they are lucky enough to be kept around for years before snacktime approaches. This would be a form of coexistence, even if its not one we would consider to be 'good'. Its coexistence in the same way that we coexist with cows.
>>287167177class disparity is not coexistence either, you have to be shitposting at this point, but then again you are reddit-spacing, so maybe you are just that retarded.
>>287167143No, thats not how it works anon. Do you think that you are physically stronger than a horse? The animal is like six times your size and has as many muscles in its neck as you have in your whole body. We didn't domesticate horses by wrestling them to the ground. That can tame an individual horse, but it cannot domesticate the species. There is a very important difference between taming an animal and domesticating one. We domesticated horses by hijacking their natural social structure and using it against them. Horses are matriarchal and follow the Boss Mare. Thus, if you control the Boss Mare then the rest of the herd will follow her just about anywhere. This weak point in their herd structure is how we were able to round up and control a group of animals that are each stronger and faster than we are by a significant margin. Its also why, despite looking very similar, we cannot and never have domesticate zebras: zebras don't have the same herd mentality that horses so, zebras are every man for themselves so there is nothing to exploit.This trick cannot work on demons, because they lack social or family units that we can co-opt to form the head of. Even if demons did not inherent see us as prey, we still wouldn't be able to domesticate them.
>>287167257Coexistence is not the same as equality, anon. It just means that we can both survive in the same habitat without competitive exclusion. The current state of affairs with humans and demons is not co-existence because demons destroy human towns and drive the humans away in doing so, and the humans seek to eradicate demons whenever possible. But in a setup where the humans are serfs and the demons farm them sustainably, that qualifies as coexistence.
>>287163059Modern DnD literally had to retcon orcs as "basically just Mexicans" because people cried about how it was racist to treat them the way its inspirations LotR reated them.
>>287167277Demons do have social structures, otherwise there wouldn't be a demon king. Therefore, as mimicry goes both ways, demon society can be infiltrated and subverted.
>>287165248>>287165181She's just doing the Demon thing of lying mid fight to throw her enemy off
>>287155655The middle eastern version replaces the frog with a turtle. When the scorpion tries to sting him he says, "if you're going to follow your nature, then I will do the same." And he drowns the scorpion.
ladsImma rewatch the whole two series from start to finish againwill be the third time
you guys don't understand with your anti-demonicismI CAN FIX HER !
>>287155655Because it would be interesting to see if demon girls can be domesticated in their world especially since they can behave in a humane manner with their own kind
>>287156203Qual was kinda cool.
>>287167277the boss mare? is that a real thing?
>>287161150You’re doing it for people that don’t deserve it is probably the reason why
>>287155655>l try to empathize with irredeemable evilThat's normal, trying to empathize is only humanIts their refusal to accept reality once it fails that's bothersome
My wife has been jobbing in the same fight for months nowEND THE HIATUS BEFORE I PISS MESELF
>>287157020>>287161003The whole argument about "the demons are supposed to be irredeemably evil" is kinda pointless. Evil is subjective. Objectively, they think and feel rather differently from humans and they naturally enjoy killing and eating us, so they do, because they also lack (or have a radically different) empathy. Killind demons isn't the right thing because they are "evil", but because they WILL try kill us, no matter what we do.It's just that they look human, so some people feel for them.
>>287167277Zebras are also nasty as fuck. Horses aren't nearly as aggressive.
>>287167277But if you raise them as babies like zookeepers do with lions and tigers they can easily adapt to a human’s lifestyle without being aggressive
>>287169250
>>287155655>yet grown men watch Frieren and still try to empathize with irredeemable evil?The ones doing that are the scorpions. It's the disease, and they do the same thing in all media.
>>287168445Enjoy.I need to rewatch S2 first.
>>287155655>yet grown men watch Frieren and still try to empathize with irredeemable evil?Based Christians.
>>287164153Which is funny because Solitar is by far the more dangerous demon in that arc
>>287163990>Why we keep having these threads is that the very idea that Demons are sapient and intelligent is at odds with the idea that they have no agency over their morality.I think you should look deeper into human nature before making objectively false conclusions like this. Psychopaths, Sociopaths, Pedophiles are all sapient and intelligent and yet their base inner desires and their fundamental incapability to successfully integrate into society without sacrificing their happiness will inevitably lead to them causing harm to others and themselves. The timing and the extent is largely dependent on circumstances but no matter how intelligent you are at some point your emotions will guide your intellect to align your reasoning with your true goals.
>>287155655Just like the scorpion stings the frog I will try to stick my dick inside of a demon girl
>>287169035Yep. Basically there are two important positions within a herd of horses: the stallion and the boss mare. The stallion is the strongest, most territorial male. The one that will fight and chase off other males and claims breeding rights. The other males can and do breed with mares, but they usually have to do it out of sight of the stallion or he will come and try to fight them.The boss mare, meanwhile, is the lead female horse. This is *often* the oldest female horse, but not always. The boss mare will also often establish dominance especially at the start, but this is much more of a trust and vibes based position than a strength based one. Where the boss mare goes, the rest of the herd (even the stallion) follows. And I mean that pretty literally, the boss mare leads from the front and is the one that the rest of the other horses walk behind as she is the one that decides when its time to move on to find food or water or whatever.In a crises (aka, wolves attacks or something) the stallion's first instinct is to go and chase off or fight the wolves. Meanwhile, the boss mare's job is to plot a safe path out of there and the rest of the herd chases after her. The stallion, thus, acts as a distraction such that even if he dies fighting the threat he has bought the rest of the herd time to escape, and then a new stallion will arise from infighting in the remaining males. So breaking and taking control of the stallion in a herd buys you basically nothing, but if you can lead the boss mare where you want to go every other horse there will follow you pretty much anywhere.
>>287161003>Demons exist in the story to tell you that showing mercy to the vanquished is evil, that trying to negotiate with a belligerent force is evil, that abstaining from betrayal under the flag of truce is evil, that trying to converse or reason with an outsider is evil, that simply questioning whether something is truly evil is itself evil. An author cannot expect to create a narrative with such a message, and not have it questioned by anyone who has actual morals, and spent more than five minutes thinking about his story.This is all factual btw.Allowing this all is why our societies are so rotted out and antiwhite.You don't tolerate, host, or excuse those who hate your kin, erase your history or culture, or make open attempts to kill, rape, or terrorize your kin.You need to cut this behavior down swiftly and with great force.
>>287163280well thanks for telling the thread you are antiwhite anon.Also that your IQ is under 50.
>>287162938Have you ever thought that the deranged zoophiliac fucks domesticated animals because they're easier to fuck?
The issue with demons is that for whatever reason, they just cannot fucking stop slaughtering humans en masse. Even when they seem sympathetic, they straight up can't help themselves. The historical foundation of Frieren is that demonkind once nearly brought humanity to the brink of destruction. In modern times, demons still kill humans by the truckload, even wiping out entire villages. Whenever someone tries to sympathize with them and reach a hand out, there's a good chance that the demons will just kill them and everyone they care about anyway.THIS is why humanity cannot afford to join hands with demons. Every attempt leads to colossal failure and bloodshed. The demons keep turning things into an "us or them" issue. They forced humanity's hand and now humans have no choice but to drive demonkind to extinction or otherwise face extinction themselves.
>>287173615Well humans are willing to do it, after 109 times. Not that unrealistic if you ask me.
anal rape demon girls
Is the hiatus over yet
>>287155655they are westeners
>>287174710It may never end
>>287163304>demons just view life purely in the quality of a hierarchical food-chain, on a seemingly base DNA programming levelWhich is dumb, there's not a single predatory species that does this exclusively and they're all mentally less developed than demons by orders of magnitudes. There are multiple instances of predators taking care of the cubs of their prey and genuinely caring for them like they're their own children for example.Demons should either be walking chinese rooms or predators that will generally follow their instincts but not exclusively. You can't have it both ways and still expect people to maintain their suspension of disbelief.
>>287175530>there's not a single predatory species that does this exclusivelyThere are no demons nor mages my man
>>287158862It is though. The moral is some people by nature are not good.
>>287175530>Which is dumb, there's not a single predatory species that does this exclusivelyWe don't even know the origin of demons yet anon, just that they are monsters made of manaRelax anon.
>>287162938Has there ever been a demon/human hybrid in the story
>>287167333Drizzt got too many players interested in tortured renegade demihumans. Warcraft 3 and then WoW accelerated things even more.
>>287175701 The Demon King
>>287175580fuck off>>287175653sure but that doesn't stop people from advocating that demons are well written as they are now.
>>287175855>that demons are well written as they are nowThey are as in that they serve as good antagonist, a good themathic argument against suicidal empathy, and Macht is a good character on himselfJust because there are some unanswered questions about them doesn't mean they are not good. For fucks sake, we don't even know what Schlatt's keikaku was, or why the demon king wanted to coexist, so it's natural there is some stuff that hasn't been explained
>>287167277That would be a good argument but a bad example.
>>287175530>wtf this fictional entity is too different from the real world( •_•)
People confuse two different things here 1. Frieren is objectively and provably wrong when she says Demons are animals incapable of actual emotion. We see Demons display emotions away from outside eyes(notably anger, pride, greed, etc). Unless you believe this is an example of them being becoming the mask by reflexive simulation there’s no recourse for her argument they don’t “feel” things. They do. Just much differently from humans. 2. The main fault of the Demons is that they lack empathy and morality. The part of the mortal brain that tells you basic morality shit(murder is bad) is seemingly non functional among them. A demon who bothers to research a human culture might come to understand that “murder is considered bad”, but it seems to be the case they simply cannot grasp WHY it is bad. Does that mean that every Demon to ever exist was completely and totally irredeemable? I don’t know. Plenty of full of sociopaths exist as functional citizens in real life. It just feels like even if you did find the one in a million demon with enough natural curiosity and patience to try and come to a philosophical enlightenment of basic human morality, you would never be able to actually be 100% sure it wasn’t just the perfect con. How could you befriend such a being?
>>287167277>No, thats not how it works anon. Do you think that you are physically stronger than a horse?>This trick cannot work on demons, because they lack social or family units that we can co-opt to form the head of. Even if demons did not inherent see us as prey, we still wouldn't be able to domesticate them.Not sure about this actually. All of demon culture is based on being stronger than the next dude. The Demon King didn’t become the Demon King due to blood right or pre existing social order, he did it by cracking skulls and dominating the ultra-Darwinian society of Demonkind through sheer power. Prior to that, they were killing each other about as often as they were killing other races. The only thing Demon “society” seems to value at all is power. Weaker demons naturally seem to defer instinctually to stronger ones. After all, if they don’t, said superior won’t hesitate to blow them up. There’s not going to be a trial, they’ll just murder you. Therefore we know Demons are willing to submit to stronger Demons for the sake of personal safety and the chance to advance their own goals. With that in mind, it might be theoretically possible for a non-demon of great power to intimidate or dominate a demon into service, although I’d grant you it was unlikely. Temporary alliance? More likely. The Demon could always just backstab you later anyways, and probably expects you to do the same. Spook them enough that they fear you and you may well get them to be an attack dog though(albeit one that will gut you if it senses weakness)
>>287155655the real problem is people pretending himmel is dead
>>287178576Why didn’t he just fuck her and autistically explain sex as mating or whatever nerd term she understands
>>287155655Total Scorpion Death
>>287178576That might be even worse than a good demon
How is this thread still alive. The OP image alone is the reason why it should've been nuked for being off topic.
>>287181846It's a thread about an anime?
>>287178400so if humanity developed guns/nukes would that pacify demons entirely?
>>287175701>Has there ever been a demon/human hybrid in the storyMost of the world's population seem to have some demonic blood, given the typical lack of emotional range and prevalence of severe autism.Jokes aside, there are two candidates for demon hybrids/demons raised by humans in the middle of the clusterfuck battle about to start in the manga. Too bad the hiatus seems to be eternal.>>287175653>We don't even know the origin of demons We're told that they've evolved from monsters, but the problem with this explanation is, characters who use it are clearly full of shit or talking out of their asses. Besides inconsistencies in their behavior, there are some strange facts that suggest different explanations. Like, the Demon King's castle standing literally right on top of the place where Heaven is supposed to be. Or the recent idea that magic is an outside force to the world, though this one might be delusion by a certain character.
>>287155655supreme bait, hats off to you
>>287164561>a genuinely good demonlol
>>287163990Your reading comprehension is terrible, or you're being disingenuous. I said that the demons are ANALOGOUS to the worst evils any sapient beings can become. Demons are the dark triad, not race, and the people making these threads are similar assholes scared that they've been found out.>>287164304Things can be mimicked without being understood, and the demons have used their deceptions to be hated less by humans, but these demons did so for only their own fleeting interests (usually to better betray and undermine those humans) and eventually betrayed and undermined those humans.
>>287158862https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scorpion_and_the_Frog#Interpretations....
>>287155655Because demons are real and they influence a lot of people. There is a real spiritual war happening constantly around you.
>>287164671Because they're evil. They're not just "merely" predators. They delight in wanton, senseless violence against humans and do it whether they need to eat or not.
>>287164684The logical conclusion is that they're evil, not that the story is poorly written. You just don't want to admit that good and evil actually exist.
>>287164868>Because the propaganda doesn't work otherwise.It's not propaganda though. You just call it that because you want it to be propaganda instead of realism that doesn't align with your views. And they're not even really your views, you've been taught to think this way.>>287165034>Why MUST you try to coexistBecause they've been brainwashed to think that it is fundamentally wrong to judge others and act accordingly. Moral judgements are inherently bad. Boundless tolerance is the only virtue, even to the point where it is suicidal.
>>287161003(1) So your Doylist take is "the author is morally obligated shape the setting such that it teaches people Good Morals™", which is the exact surface level playground ethics that lead to porn bans and "problematic media" witch hunts.(2) Your Watsonian take is just as dogshit, no wonder everyone ignored it. It makes you sound like the kinda person that think ChatGPT is GenAI. You see a mimic "expressing emotions" and think they are there.
It's a leftwing thing. Notice how so often you get these people still trying to hold out hope for the other side or try to find rationalization for why someone did something bad, while on the right you get people that just go and say anything they don't like is evil and that's that, no further thought is put in.
>>287184023>You just don't want to admit that good and evil actually exist.I'm perfectly aware that good and evil actually exist, and that people who argue for racial extermination directly or indirectly (i.e., conceiving fictional setups where it is justified) are blatantly evil. I pass moral judgments on them without hesitation. And I foresee that their anal devastation, when the story inevitably steers to the coexistence ending, will be truly glorious.
>>287184459>or indirectlyhow many humans dying would it take for you to call it?2/3rds?85%?99%?When does indirect extermination of humanity start applying?
>>287184459assuming humans are an emanation of the natural world and not placed in it by some gods design or some such extermination or enslavement of other groups to the benefit of your own is natural and good
>>287184459If they didn't attack humans nobody would care, it's not like they are peacefully farming their crops and here come the evil humans putting them in concentration camps. They are active combatants.Frieren kills exactly 0 innocent peaceful demons
>>287155655https://www.jrbooksonline.com/pdf_books/judaisminmusic.pdfOn Jewish speech as the foundation. Wagner starts with language. He argues that Jews speak European languages "as aliens" — learned tongues rather than mother tongues — and that this produces speech he characterizes as mannered, hollow, and lacking in genuine emotional warmth. He describes Jewish speech patterns in deliberately ugly terms (buzzing, squeaking, gurgling), and claims this mode of speaking can never rise to heartfelt passion. This is his base claim, and he extends it upward into music, since he sees song as essentially "talk aroused to highest passion."On Jewish music specifically. He argues that the only authentic musical wellspring available to Jewish composers is synagogue liturgical music — the ceremonial music of Jewish worship. He then describes this music in grotesque, mocking terms (yodeling, cackling, "sense-and-sound-confounding gurgle"), claiming it has ossified over millennia without inner renewal. So the Jewish composer's sole native musical source is, in Wagner's telling, a dead and distorted tradition.On what Jewish composition sounds like. When Jewish composers try to write in European musical forms, Wagner claims the result is superficial imitation rather than genuine creation. He uses the metaphor of parrots repeating human speech. Specifically he says their music exhibits a restless, prickling agitation without real passion, an arbitrary mixing of styles and forms from different periods and masters jumbled together, surface elegance and cleverness without emotional depth, and coldness, indifference, and triviality at its core.>speech ... mannered, hollow, and lacking in genuine emotional warmth>can never rise to heartfelt passion>superficial imitation rather than genuine creation>parrots repeating human speech>coldness, indifference, and triviality at its coreThe Jew is a neandtheral-human hybrid designed to imitate us
>>287184588makes sense considering how much they care about language too. the people of pilpul
>>287156203which one?
>>287184459You sound evil.
>>287184588For starters this retarded headcanon already fails because it's merely talking about how jews speak european languages as a secondary thing, meaning it has no effect to how they use their primary languagesThe rest is straight up unprovable headcanon fantasy.We know, objectively, jews can feel emotions because their brain lights up exactly like the rest of us in psych tests. You can cope about it I guess and scream>Just like muh animu demons!And you'll remain a clown
>>287184666You are only saying this so we don't identify you and take appropriate action... Schlomo
>>287184693Yes anon, that must be it, there can be no other reason someone disagrees with you saying that 2+2=5
>>287184666>They'll sound genuine if they speak their native language!wwwwww. If it sounds alien in one language, it will sound alien in another.
>>287184586>If they didn't attack humans nobody would care, it's not like they are peacefully farming their crops and here come the evil humans putting them in concentration camps. They are active combatants.>Frieren kills exactly 0 innocent peaceful demonsI'm aware of that. Frieren is either fully justified or understandably justified in all of her actions so far. I'm also, again, pretty sure that the story, if it ever gets off hiatus, will inexorably head towards fixing the irrational murder compulsion that demons have and coexistence. The reasons are too long to list, but the most fundamental one is that Frieren herself will never be truly happy as long as she has to be the Slayer. However, as the very existence of this thead and posts right above (and below) yours indicate, we have an issue of /pol/tards latching on the story because they think it provides them with an apology of genocide. As you can clearly see,>>287184588they think that the story's themes sufficiently match the rhetorics of their favored IRL villains.
>>287184736>Frieren herself will never be truly happy as long as she has to be the Slayer.Which is why she's training Fern to get rid of the rest of the rats, so the Age Of Humans can truly be peaceful
>>287184723I think they can sound genuine when speaking european languages too. Kafka was nice to read, I think Wagner is just writing complete headcanon.My point is, even IF he wasn't, he's using a bad argument for it too>>287184736No different than the nazi publishes who wrote to Tolkien in admiration and got called a retard by him, but also no different from commies who latch to woke garbage just because it's woke garbageJust ignore them
>>287184736>I'm also, again, pretty sure that the story, if it ever gets off hiatus, will inexorably head towards fixing the irrational murder compulsion that demons have and coexistence.I don't understand, you are assuming the demons think there is a problem that needed fixing. Demons eat humans because they are monsters, and monsters are NOT animals. Animals can have superpowers in the world but they don't go out of way to eat humans. This is because humans were never good prey. There is no logical reason for animals to deliberately hunt humans, humans aren't good targets. Monsters, however, are made of mana and and do go out of their want to find and eat humans. Eating humans is in their core, their raison d'etre. And Demons are just Monsters who learn to speak.In some fantasy world there is no distinction between monsters and animals, like with Delicious In Dungeon. But in Frieren monsters were designed to irrationally eat humans despite not needing to and it being so difficulr, and since we know deities exist in Frieren then we can definitely blame that on some malicious creation god who really don't like humans.Basically demons and monsters in general are attacking humans by some cosmic design. And thus calling them demons is actually appropriate. They are made that way, like their dragons are. There is a malicious force that wants humans dead, a force that can't be explained by evolution.
>>287184871you need to realize you're trying to reason with someone who would rather enslave and force a species into submission, than admit they're incompatible. They have a myopic view of morality that is wholly defined by killing or the lack of it.
>>287184736>Jews dindu nuffinHow fucktarded do you have to be to post this in anno domini 2023+3 ????The Resistance in Iran, Syria, Libya, Iraq, Lebanon, and Gaza say hi, you liberal cuck
>demons derailing demonposting conversations with IRL p*liticsI'm nooticing
>>287184919>redditor butthurt that fiction has wider meaning and isn't self-contained
>redditor can't tell fiction from reality apartlol
>>287184871>the demons think there is a problem that needed fixingBut some do, Macht and the Demon King explicitly believed soSolitair doesn't, which is why she tries to stop them. It's a whole thing.
>>287185166It's cringe to restrict one's views of fiction based on real-world opinionsHowever, it's based to project fictional and fantastical viewpoints onto reality (as long as it's not Harry Potter, LoTR and Star Wars for the 1 millionth time)This is because converse statements aren't logically equivalent, redditor
>>287184459>I'm perfectly aware that good and evil actually existAnd how do you define those words? Tolerance = good, judgement = evil. That's why you're infuriated that Frieren does make a judgement, and does not tolerate demons. You have an inverted morality.
>>287185227it's sad how you've been been refuted atleast 5 separate times this thread. But you just keep picking a new argument to lose.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/why-the-left-hates-hit-animes-simple-message-about-good-and-evilWe made it to The Daily Wire frierenCHADS...
>>287184736>Frieren herself will never be truly happy as long as she has to be the SlayerShe loves slaying demons, retard. That's why she grins every time she has a chance to kill them.
>>287185207>But some do, Macht and the Demon King explicitly believed soThey are just worried about accidentally driving humans into extinction. They just plan for human farming. Sustainable ways to eat humans. Environmentally friendly, even.
>>287185591>They are just worried about accidentally driving humans into extinction.No, Macht is quite obviously quite upset about his inhability to understand humans> They just plan for human farmingA feeling of guilt is not required for that, in fact if he managed to find out this mythical guilt he is seeking human farming would become impossible... because he would feel guilty about itMind you I'm not running defense for demons, at the end Macht simply cannot understand humans so he's a walking nuclear bomb that destroys everywhere he goes, and needs to be killed. But he definetly thinks there is a problem to fix.
>>287185404>redditor asserts generic NPC opinion such as [racism=bad]>redditor asserts generic anti-woke centrist/rightoid slop of "keep fiction and reality separate"wow, such refutation
>>287155655Scorpions don't sting because they're scorpions, they sting because this is how they hunt and defend themselves. If the scorpion is neither hunting nor threatened, why would it sting you? The answer is that it wouldn't. Animals don't attack for no reason, nature does not operate this way.That being said demons should be killed in all cases
>>287185448Eh in don't think the demons are evil, just that they're an existential threat. To be evil you have to understand that you're doing a bad thing to your fellow and do it anyway.
>>287185809EhA psycho is evil even though his nature prevents him from having empathyI think demons are between a tornado (destructive force of nature) and a psycho (human prone to evil)You can call them evil or not, the central point is that empathy with them is suicidal if not moderated by reason.
>>287155655>demons are le evil because they can kill without empathy>humans are le good boi dindu nuffins even though they kill each other despite being capable of empathyWhat did the Frieren writer mean by this?
>>287185899>humans are le good boi dindu nuffins even though they kill each other despite being capable of empathyGenau literally said>"If it was true that humans always protect their young, the world would be a better place"Two episodes agoThe current arc has humans as the enemyYou people have insane headcanons about this series, fanfics about what's actually in it.
>>287185899Nice reading comprehension.Demons are evil to humans because they are humans' natural predators whom they can't ever find a common path.Humans can be good or evil to other humans based on personality or negotiating power.
>>287185798>The answer is that it wouldn't. Animals don't attack for no reason, nature does not operate this way.Nature operates in highly predictable and from an outsiders perspective reasonable ways? This isn't even true in humans let alone animals.
>>287185899Demons represent a raw and primordial evil that simply is what it is, not gay modern evil that's founded on wrong opinions or mean thoughts
>>287185448Ah, no wonder there's so much seething here. I can't wait for all the leftist rags screeching about Frieren now and saying watching anime is right wing.
>>287185448Mmmmm I too get my opinions from literal jewslop propaganda.
>>287184871>I don't understand, you are assuming the demons think there is a problem that needed fixing.Because the most prominent demon in the story so far not just thought it is a problem that needs fixing, he quite literally wanted to understand humans more than he wanted to live. Because we were said that their king also wanted to find a way to coexist. When a story shows a demon not just wanting to study human habits so he can hunt them more efficiently, or running dispassionate experiments on them, but being ready to die for the sake of understanding human emotions for a moment, it is clear that demons themselves can see a problem that needs fixing with their condition. >Monsters, however, are made of mana and and do go out of their want to find and eat humans. Except we have examples of non-aggressive monsters, like sky mountain dragons. Also, no one had ever explained why being made of mana is inferior to being made of meat.>But in Frieren monsters were designed to irrationally eat humans despite not needing to and it being so difficulr, and since we know deities exist in Frieren then we can definitely blame that on some malicious creation god who really don't like humans.We don't know whether deities exist. It seems much more likely that some really powerful elf magician presented hersef as a goddess to ignorant humans. But I do agree that demons' behavior strongly indicates a malevolent design.
>>287185809>Eh in don't think the demons are evil, just that they're an existential threat. To be evil you have to understand that you're doing a bad thing to your fellow and do it anyway.In Frieren there is a physical distinction between Monsters and Animals. Both Monsters and Animals in their world can have superpowers. But Animals don'r go out of their way to kill humans, while monsters WILL deliberately target humans. And dragons for example will destroy towns just because humans are there. Monsters, and their upgrades the Demons, are clearly synthesized by a higher power for the purpose of harming humanity. This is also because we also have the invert, the Goddess, who's power protects humanity. If deliberate good exists, then the reverse must also be true.Humans were never good prey. We have very bad meat to bone ratio. Predators who exclusively target humans just don't survive. So for Monsters to be able to prey on humans, they were designed by dark forces to be able to eat other things to live even without human sustenance. Because living off human meat alone is evolutionary suicide. But the same dark forces made sure that the Monsters and Demons will CHOOSE to hunt down and eat humans. Because in the end that is why they are created. it is no accident, they didn't hunt humans because of some quirk, it is what they were made to do.
>>287155655>why can children graps a scenario that has nothing to do with Frierenk?
>>287185975How many scorpions have stung you?
>>287155655because grown men have libido, which clouds their judgement when they see aura
>>287155655>children can only see things in black and white>adults can understand nuanceYour point lil bro?
>>287186231>actually the scorpion only stung because of anti-arachnid sentiments resulting in defe[...]
>>287186215How many people are mauled by pitbulls every year?
>>287167776>And he drowns the scorpion.What a fucking asshole.
>>287176082Don't confuse taming with domestication, anon. Most animals can be tamed within its lifetime simply through captivity and control of their food from a young age, but domestication is a heritage activity that takes many generations to accomplish.
>>287182724It would have to be magic specifically, because demons signal strength by their mana flare. You could be Saitama levels of physically strong or have a laser that can blow up the earth, and no demon would ever consider you to be powerful in the way that they defer to other more powerful demons so long as your mana isn't anything special. And thats assuming that the proposal in >>287178400 holds true in the first place. It has a sound logical basis to it, but it doesn't seem to work that way in universe. Frieren, Flamme, and Serie for sure have enough mana for any one of them to command at the very least lesser demons simply by flaunting their powerlevels at them. But that is never treated as an option.
If we keep up the current trend, Fern should be ten feet tall in another three years
>>287155855I don't think you actually read the fairy taleThe scorpion can talk and can hold a conversation, however it cannot change its nature.
>>287184096>Because they've been brainwashed to think that it is fundamentally wrong to judge others and act accordingly. Boundless tolerance is the only virtue, even to the point where it is suicidal.best answer ever. I think it concludes all threads on this particular subject.
>>287155655Demons have no reason to be mindful of humans for the same reason you don't try to reason with the bugs you squash under your feet. They are only getting killed by frieren&Co because they're the 1 in a trillion prodigy children that can kill them. If anything their biggest sin was being too lazy to just take over for centuries.
Magic to make cumbrained demon posters dicks explode
>>287155655Children can't grasp that story either
>so don't you warry>na na nee nee no no no no no no noo-eee>this storyyyy
>>287190299HAS ONRY JUS BEGUHN
>>287190342THAS RITE
>>287167177>>287165881It worked out even better for the wolves.>peak prehistoric global wolf population: 500,000 to 2 million individuals>current global dog population: 900 million individuals>peak prehistoric global aurochs population: 5 to 15 million individuals>current global cattle population: 1.5 billion individualsServing humans is the single most OP evolutionary strategy available to the animal kingdom and it's not even fucking close.
>>287155898skill issue
>>287190799Would you rather be one of 500k ubermenschs (because all the others have died off for being too weak) or 1.5 billion runts who wouldn't survive without constant support, though?
>>287190799this. humans should just give up and let themselves get enslaved by the demons already.
>>287190799>>287191046>I'd rather be wheat than a tiger
>>287191046>>287191096I'd rather be a pampered house pet cared for by the world's most dominant species than a perpetually hungry, parasite-ridden predator desperately risking his life for every meal, yes.
>>287184919It's more like Frierentards linking demons to IRL politics or Jews or whatever
>>287191046Would you have be a subsistence farmer who has to do backbreaking work every day so you don't freeze and starve during the winter, or a cozy internet shitposter who can have pizza and beer delivered to your house?Same question, really.
