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>three final villains
?
We've known who the final villain was for decades

>>287232883
Imu since the reveal already has 300x the number of fanglirs Fatbeard ever has. Editor and Shonen will push for him as the final villains for commercial reasons

>>287232913
*Fangirls

>>287232855
I like women so Kaguya

>>287232980
foids can't be cool

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>>287232855
All 3 are shit that are mogged by Aizen, Madara and Blackbeard but if I had to pick it has to be the guy who was actually foreshadowed from the beginning

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>>287232855
Only Yuha was introduced in the first chapter of the final arc and remained the main antagonist consistently for 200+ chapters until the end, none of the retarded bait and switch at the last moment. So he's obviously the best.

>>287233065
It's not exactly a high bar to clear. We know jackshit about Imu so far or how the rest of the story will go, and Kaguya was a literally who? tier non-entity with less setup or justification than many JRPG final bosses.

>>287232855
Yhwach is potentially the most interesting in concept and character, but Kubo didn't focus on it enough, so he just kinda devolved into the megalomaniac madman at the end. He does have crazy aura though.
Kaguya is a massive shitter and a horrible left turn that tainted the setting retroactively and going forward.
Imu is kind of the emblematic of what OP morphed into, especially after the TS, for better or worse. His design is also terrible.

I guess Yhwach is the best?

>>287232999
>actually foreshadowed from the beginning
He wasn't.

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>>287232855
>wasting this much of your life on shonenslop
Both naruto and shitpiece lose for introducing their villains way too late.

Frieza > Cell/Buu
Aizen sama > Yourwatch
Madara > Kaguya
Imu > Boringbeard

"final" villains always suck

>>287232855
sasuke was the last final

>>287233966
>"final" villains always suck
Buu is fine. It's just that Frieza was much better, to the point he became the epitoe of "Arc Boss"

>>287232855
>Ywach
Cool as concept as part of Ichigo and rebellion against the system, but the former didn't really matter in the end while the latter was the same undercooked goal as Aizen. Neither could offer an alternative solution to the system put in place by the soul king. It felt like the plot was just there for the fights.
>Kaguya
Came out of left field with no real personality or goal. Worst of them all by far and completely overshadowed by Madara.
>Imu
Easily the best so far by simply being the big bad that stands at the top of the world, preserving the status quo. Fits thematically by being the big oppressor that dictates which opinions are allowed and who can rise in power. I also like his design overall from what we've seen.

>>287233739
What's so bad about Imu's design?

>>287232855
they literally show Imu transform and wear elbaf clothes, you have to be retarded to think that's his "final" form

>>287234610
>What's so bad about Imu's design?
NTA but it really dosent fit the aesthetics and style of One Piece
If i saw it without context, i would had think it was a unused battle form of Madara Uchiha or some other Naruto character

>>287232855
>original big three
There is no other big three zoom zoom

>>287232999
Kubo didn't plan shit, he made it up as he went along.
When the series was new, it was supposed to be a monster of the week yokai hunting manga based in the human world.
Then when that got boring he made it into a proper battle manga with the soul society.
He didn't expect it to last much longer that, but it turned out popular so he created the whole Hueco Mundo arc and made Aizen the new main bad guy.
Ulquiorra doesn't have a second transformation, he just didn't like the design of the first one so he made up a second one.
He got sick of the series by the end of Aizen and wanted to end it, so he took away Ichigo's power. Surely you must end a series after that?
But management kept it going, and he made the poorly designed fullbringer arc. It was so shift that he retconned it later.
And now finally he was allowed to end it with the final quincy arc, and he just threw shit at the wall and got it over and done with.
Nothing was planned more than one arc at a time.

>>287234712
It is sad that you really think you deserve to breath.

>>287234686
>MHA, Black Clover and Demon Slayer arent the zoomers big three
Okay grandpa millennial

>>287232855
I followed Naruto and have followed One Piece live during their runs, but I only read through Bleach in the past few months
Yhwach is by far the best big bad of the three by a long shot, as he’s the only one that’s actually written into the story in a meaningful way since the beginning
Both he and Imu are ancient forces with hints of their involvement scattered throughout, but the issue of Quincies and world-balance has been a thing in Bleach since Uryu’s introduction
Imu is so far removed from general storytelling, even if he is true to the puppet master archetype
Kaguya is by far the worst because she quite literally appeared out of nowhere, along with the entirety of Naruto’s closing act

And although OP is still running, I think the objective ranking of overall writing for the three series is:
Bleach > Naruto > One Piece
Bleach has some great character writing just like Naruto, but I feel it doesn’t shit itself through bullshit reveals
Naruto’s entire message prior to the ending was that the circumstances of your life don’t dictate its outcome, they just give you different tools to carve your path with
All of this was done away with upon the realization that Naruto and Sasuke were superheroes reincarnated, so their training was all fluff because fate was their main power
Ichigo at least is constantly at odds with the asspulls he’s given, and it works with his character because he struggles with believing he’s the sole defender of his life and the people around him
One Piece has far too many characters and is far too long to have meaningful development anymore, none of the characters feel real anymore and they’ve stopped having true moments of humanity, everyone is basically Roger now with the trope of “yeah ACTUALLY they were doing this all along”

>>287232855
Aizen and Madara are far better

>>287234815
It would be MHA, DS and JJK. You need 100 million copies to be considered big.

>>287232855
>Bleach's characters designs
>Naruto's characters writing
>One Piece's worldbuilding
Would this be the ultimate battle shonen?

>>287234955
Yes but replace all of these with Yu Yu Hakusho

>>287235116
>Togashit

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>>287232855
>>Ywach
Yuha is aura. Personified.

>>287232855
kaguya

>Kaguya
That nigga looks so fucking lame kek
Do narutards really?

>>287232855
>Kaguya
At least she eliminated Madara, and had some neat imagery
>Imu
Acceptable, even if he has little to do with one piece and generally pretty bad
>Yhwach
Absolute trash who kept asspulling everything he needed while being an absolute idiot, like Aizen.

>>287232883
If oda was any good writing fights it'd be a lot of fun to see blackbeard scrap with whoever, close calls, underhanded tactics, vicious and cowardly.

>>287232883
Teach is analogous to Sasuke here.

>>287232855
Ywach was cool in concept, trying to replace the current kinda shitty sytem, but his execution was severely lacking. His goals and alternate plan felt undercooked. His alter ego being inside Ichigo was also a nothingburger. Especially his powerset was getting on my nerves after a while, since it came down to "everything you can do I can do better" like in a grade schooler fight.

Kaguya came out of the left field, since her involvement in the plot before her appearance was just a couple of mentions of her name in off hand lore drops, had zero personality and was ultimately just a convenient way to get rid of Madara, whom Kishimoto established as so powerful that he kinda wrote himself into a corner. Feels like an afterthought. Worst execution out of the 3 by far.

Imu is ok atm. He's been involved in the plot for a while now, seems to have issues of his own, and depending on how Oda writes his motivation, he also might be one of those "he's right from his perspective, but his means were too drastic so he must be stopped" kind of villains. Out of the 3 he has the added benefit of still being a work in progress.

>>287234955
naruto's characters are dogshit, especially the girls

>>287234879
Madara was always trash, having a guy who already lost his only war in the past as the main villain is laughable

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>>287232855
One Piece deserves one of these now.

>Otsutsuki Imu

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>>287232855
>>Imu

>>287234831
>And although OP is still running, I think the objective ranking of overall writing for the three series is:
>Bleach > Naruto > One Piece
Nowhere that has a consensus or ratings even remotely agrees with you. One piece is by far more praised than bleach or naruto. To the point where it's not even in the same ballpark.

>>287234662
I can half see it, but I wouldn't say it's a bad thing either. He's the only character from the old world, so there might be an actual reason for him to look a bit different. I also don't think the difference is that big.

>>287234662
> it really dosent fit the aesthetics and style of One Piece
He looks like a devil Cavendish cosplaying as Enel, maybe a bit unusual but still within the aesthetics of OP

>>287238263
The only person that would say he's not someone that would belong in the show is someone who doesn't keep up with it. He literally has all the aesthetics of many other races and creatures pre-established in the show.

>>287238105
Nobody cares about one piece anymore

>>287238366
It's never been more relevant. Naruto and Bleach only get dunked on and ridiculed these days.

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I'm thinking this guy is the best final villain

>>287232855
Aizen > Ywach

>>287232883
Of course, Buggy will be the last oponnent in a davy back fight.

>>287238105
Retard its currently running which means it’ll obviously get different sorts of analysis compared to finished series
“Dunking” on older series is just analysis in retrospect, which is valuable, but hype culture is going to steer discourse for One Piece because it’s ongoing and people are going to inflate their opinions based on hypothetical endings or resolutions that have yet to happen
In terms of writing quality though, I think Bleach is far beyond OP, and it takes the time to develop characters and lore in a concise, impactful way
Naruto is objectively king for character writing, so while my Bleach opinion is in fact opinion, I think saying OP has an edge over Naruto in terms of moment to moment characterization is flatly incorrect
This truly isn’t a debate
Have a modicum of critical reading and assessment skills before you start yapping like an idiot

Never assume who the final villain is until the story is over. Especially not in a shonen manga.

>>287239650
They are both unbeatable meme men who lose to plot.

>>287232999
Yhwach could have been the best villain of his own manga if Kubo leaned harder into the fact that he was there all along. The reveal is cool for like two seconds but doesn’t really tell us much about Yhwach’s own character or contribute to his defeat or Ichigo’s abilities.

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>>287238105
Maybe in your retarded zoomer fantasy world.

>>287241867
What is the source for this? Japanese rating doesn't work that way, btw. It's always a percentage of households within Kanto.

>>287239900
It's currently still running because Oda knows how to write. The others had to end because they were going to shit and needed to end.

>>287237863
How so? Imu controls the five elders, who control the world government, but we have known this for a while. What changed?

>>287232855
Bleach is obviously the best

>>287232855
I've only read Naruto, so I have to say it is either Bleach > One Piece > Naruto or One Piece > Naruto > Bleach.

>>287234955
>Naruto’s powers
Ftfy

>>287242802
lol

>>287234815
JJK is deserving

>>287234751
What did he say that triggered you so hard? God forbid someone say something discussion worthy

>>287234831
No one is gonna agree that Naruto has better writing than OP except fan boys and OP haters. Bleach ill grant is debatable

One Piece is still open to the possibility of having its own Kaguya, Imu (and/or Blackbeard) being in fact Madara's equivalent. So you still can't make this topic in good faith.

>>287237759
You mean like Germany in WW2?

>>287238366
Literally the most relevant shonen in the world to this day. Imus reveal had like 40 threads on /a/

>>287244536
literally impossible because one piece actually bothered to plant seeds for all kinds of shit including literal moon people unlike naruto

>>287238470
GT is so much better than super when it comes to designs.

>>287244619
Yes, and if you've been following the latest spoilers and chapter for One Piece you'd agree that one of the main speculations that has come to the forefront now is that Imu will die while "the thing" sealed inside him will come out and act as the final threat despite possibly not even being a character. We've all seen 1000 JRPGs and dozens of anime pull this shitty trope so what's stopping One Piece from doing it? Evidence is piling up...

>>287239735
There's your opportunity for Zoro to duel and defeat Mihawk

>>287244676
first off BB is the final antagonist anyway and beyond that a literal devil from devil fruits would still be several levels above Kaguya

>>287244536
No way OP would add a Kaguya. If they did it would be Davy Jones (maybe possessing BB) and it would still be way better built up

>>287244732
It would be the same kind of play, maybe with some extra time for "set up" instead of everything happening within 50 chapter from the first mention.

One Piece has already pulled exactly the same bullshit with Nika though, who went from first ever mention in the manga to being the MC's Super Saiyan transformation within 25 chapters.

Blackbeard has as much chance of being the final villain as he has of being an ally by the end. It's all up in the air.

>>287244732
This is what I love about OPs final antagonist. There is to this day a lively debate of BB vs Imu where both sides think its obvious. Ive been on the Imu side plotwise for years but prefer BB because hes such a great character and would really make OP have a great ending having him drown or whatever.
>BB starts sinking after long fight
>suddenly tentacles spring from the water
>he has secret Kraken transformation
>cue final form

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Name a more pathetic shonen final villain

>>287244870
I've been on Imu's side but the very latest chapter planted so many deathflags and counter-evidence that by now I don't even think Imu (the character) will even survive to the end of the war. BB can take his power and his spot, but it also feels more and more like what I mentioned here >>287244676 is becoming a top possibility. I would hate that but if we look at things objectively considering the recent evidence during this arc, that is a clear open path.

I never liked BB as final villain that much because the dude is barely even evil. He's just a ruthless pirate chasing power, the "anti-Luffy", and One Piece's final conflict being a rival fight is too low stakes. I don't feel like the manga has enough time left to properly establish BB's villainy in a way that raises the stakes, meanwhile the WG has been blatant with this issue for a thousand chapters. Even if BB is the "final fight" in a Sasuke vs Naruto way, I wouldn't consider that the same as being the final villain (in Naruto's example that would be Kaguya)

>>287244972
I dont think the final villain necessarily needs to be the most evil. BB is my favorite because his progress in the background mirrors Luffy to a degree, with his ambition hes the perfect anti Luffy and he has a simple yet varied range of powers aswell as s good classic pirate design. His fight with Luffy stands to have much more personality involved than one with Imu

>>287244676
Can you name 10 JRPGs that do that?

>>287244870
nobody cares about this slop

>>287232913
Ace is still one of the most popular characters in One Piece, and Oda still had Akainu brutally donutize him.

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>>287235256
"aura" was personified over 40 years ago and all of Shonen Jump's villains have been trying to chase the same shadow ever since.

>>287244885
Can't wait for Imu baby form

>>287244972
>I never liked BB as final villain that much because the dude is barely even evil
He's explicitely the chaotic evil counterpart to the WG and wants to plunge the world into an age of darkness where he and his crew of serial killers can Do As Thou Wilt.

>>287238366
>It's never been more relevant.
True
>Naruto and Bleach only get dunked on and ridiculed these days.
only true because OP’s fandom is growing insecure in their middle age. Not true overall

>>287245221
In the context of One Piece, I do feel a strong correlation between how evil you are portrayed as and how big your arc can get. Crocodile, Enel, Spandam and the WG, Doflamingo, Orochi and what Kaido was doing to Wano's people. They're all complete pieces of shit who are actively oppressing people and delight in their needless sadism. Our crew comes up to liberate the innocents being tormented by evil.

Blackbeard doesn't even rule over anyone, he's just doing what the SHs are doing but with a different approach. There's no time to establish a scenario where he becomes king, has time to enact villainy to the point where he is an oppressor, and then is defeated by Luffy. Especially because we know the endgame is about "bringing a new dawn to the world", liberation is a main theme, and it's impossible to make a believable case where the world is liberated FROM Blackbeard. In fact Blackbeard will probably contribute, voluntarily or not, to the liberation in itself

>>287245361
Yeah nobody cares about top 3 highest selling manga that had endless threads when the antagonist face was revealed. Can't imagine what cringe series you like or if youre just perpetually depressed as a HxH fan so you lash out

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I see some of you all didn't get the memo

>>287245757
He's the main rival to be pirate king the essence of OPs story. Also not being a king tyrannizing a nation is a good thing because it contrasts the repeated dynamic we've gotten endlessly. I dont mind that as a fan but I welcome a shake up to the dynamic. Egg head was a twist on that and so was whole cake

>>287245877
>be pirate king the essence of OPs story
Long time since that ship sailed. We've known for years that a World War will start only after the One Piece is found, that the treasure itself is significant for the things it can do to affect the world (i.e. it's not just a symbol for achievement aka Pirate King), we now know the various prophecies associated with it, there's big lore behind it that goes beyond just piracy, even fucking Luffy now has a secret dream that goes beyond being PK.

>>287244174
lol
lmao even

>>287245430
Raoh has negative aura. Actually read FoTN.
It's what makes him memorable.
His incessant gassing up after his death is the actual problem and antithetical to his actual character.

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>>287245430
>"aura" was personified over 40 years ago
i love the fact that you guys don't miss a single chance to remind everyone you are aging millennials. i mean i am one too but come the fuck on. some something not totally retarded. just admit you are too old for shounen and move on.

>>287232855
Yhwach is the only one who doesn't look like he sucks cocks

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>>287232999
>Aizen, Madara and Blackbeard
senpai thinks he is on the team

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>>287232855
Yhwach looks cool and has a cool voice but I find his ultimate power to be underwhelming. "I can change the future so that I always win" but that just takes th form of him being a big blob monster.

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i fucking love Kaguya. She is so on brand for Naruto. Kishi literally doesn't consider to be fit for fighting. So he borrows a myth of a goddess that felt betrayed by her husband and goes scorched earth on their ass. absolute poetry.

>>287234368
Fat Buu is very underrated. Great character.

>>287244639
A little bit, not that much. Super is very restrained and goes with Toriyama "devil may care" sensibilities but it lacks the Toriyama flair and execution that actually made it work.

>>287247966
I agree, people are shitting on Kaguya but honestly the only issue is that she's quite forgettable and disconnected from most of the personal conflict (although she's connected theme wise). Great design.

>>287238187
He gives the same vibes as Jadis the White Witch.

Middle and right are still ongoing but enjoy your meme thread

>>287248116
Did you even read the OP or did you see the image and just flip out?

>>287247966
>Kishi literally doesn't consider to be fit for fighting.
*doesn't consider women to be fit

>>287248116
>right
boruto bro, I...

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>>287232999
>999
I just love how mad this foreshadowing makes people.

Anyone getting tired of Bleach and Naruto cucks leaching off OP for relevancy? You guys were made fun of and laughed out of the building over a decade ago. Your legacy just keeps getting worse with time.

>>287248286
bro pls, you have greying hairs.

>>287232855
Yhwach >>>>>>>> Imu >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kaguya

>>287232883
Sasuke was fought after Kaguya but no one considers him the main villain. Same will be true with Blackbeard. He's not the big bad, he's just Luffy's rival.

>>287246997
Raoh falling to his own emotion in the end is what made him memorable to me aside from being able to have immense presence. He also somehow remained cool throughout (especially in the anime) so as far as I think, he maintained his aura pretty well. And let's not pretend he wasn't gassed up in the final two pages.

>>287232855
Madara is the main villain, Kaguya was just the surprise final boss

>>287232855
I consider Kaguya a conceptual force of nature villain instead of an actual "person", so in my opinion, she did her job well enough. Her being a force of nature was like the perfect end-goal villain for the shinobi being tools theme. Plus I was tired of all the Madara gazing and spending like 60 chapters on the same battlefield with no variation in scenery, so him getting backstabbed actually felt cathartic.

Mixed on Yhwach and Imu is just cringe.

>>287248867
Kaguya is thrown into her series on a moment's notice with terrible foreshadowing and symbolism leading up to her grand reveal. Imu and his place in the show he resides in is 10x better executed. He had a proper build up for years now and his importance to the overall story seems way more significant then the amateur execution of Naruto. Just accept you have shit taste and are retarded. Probably brown too..

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>>287249002
One Piece did the ""same thing"", just vague-hinting at someone higher than the World Government pulling the strings. One can argue that Kaguya was foreshadowed as early as the Byakugan's introduction; it was just slept on due to Kishi's Uchiha boner. Then again, it doesn't help that Viz's translations are pretty horrid.

Also meds.

>>287249140
I have facts on my side to back me up little bro. One Piece has praise and acknowledgment. Naruto? Is shitted on.

>>287247844
based ergo proxy poster

>>287249184
>I have facts on my side to back me up
>resorts to argumentum ad populum

Amerikajin... One Piece also gets shit on plenty...

>>287249404
It's just super hard for me to respect anybody that thinks Naruto is quality. If you had any taste for writing, characterization or dialogue you would instantly know that Naruto's trio of main characters already puts it at a major disadvantage to One Piece, which is it's biggest Achilles Heel. Naruto? Cringe Lord. Sakura? An nsufferable bitch with no redeeming qualities. Sasuke? An edge lord emo with terrible character development.

>>287249630
I don't like Pinky and Sauce either, but not interested in your deluded attempt of moving the goalposts.

>>287249630
>nardo has less character development than luffy aka punch and eat meat: the character
you are both faggots btw and massively gay

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So we all agree that Bleach is the best of Big 3?

>>287248867
Not even a villain just an alien trying to finish her job thats why Madara is seen as the real villain

>>287249942
We're talking about characters here. No quicker and easier way to point to Naruto being way worse than One Piece than pointing out the main characters you're with along the journey. Imu so far has been treated and wrote way better than any villain in Naruto or Bleach.
>>287251132
>luffy aka punch and eat meat: the character
Luffys personality and character has a direct correlation to the entire show that he's in. As you watch/read it that fact becomes more clear, and is currently influencing the world he's in. Naruto is fucking cringe Lord in comparison.

N

Imu looks the coolest by far. And it's not because I'm a One Piecefag. It's because I love chuuni shit.

>>287251560
>We're talking about characters here.
We're talking about villains here, not the main characters. You're conflating the two for no reason while moving the goalposts and deliberately misinterpreting things to further fuel your agenda. Explain me again how Imu is "10x better executed" and had "proper build up for years" without being delusional about him, when the character is nothing more than a glorified paperweight.

>>287251898
Imu works because Oda built a world that demanded a singular, hidden king to explain its systemic rot, and he introduced that king with plenty of runway left in the story. Kaguya struggled because Kishimoto inserted her into a narrative that already had a perfectly constructed final villain, abruptly shifting the genre and themes of the series at the eleventh hour. Oda did not explicitly name or show Imu early in the story. However, he spent over two decades building a massive, story shaped hole that required someone like Imu to fill it. Oda established the oppressive World Government, the enigmatic Five Elders (Gorosei), the spoiled Celestial Dragons, the mystery of the Void Century, and the erasure of history. By the time Imu sits on the Empty Throne in Chapter 908, you don't feel cheated, you feel a sense of good realization. The throne was never empty, and the systemic corruption of the world finally has a face. Kishimoto, on the other hand, spent hundreds of chapters building up Madara as the ultimate mastermind. Madara’s ideology, history with Hashirama, and ties to the cycle of hatred were deeply woven into the plot of the world. Kaguya was only mentioned briefly by the Sage of Six Paths near the very end of the war, and her physical arrival (via Black Zetsu's betrayal) felt like a sudden left turn. She hijacked the climax of the story, replacing a villain the audience had immense emotional investment in with an alien deity they knew almost nothing about.

>final villain is moon people again

>>287252628
The core theme of One Piece is freedom, embodied by Luffy. Imu is the literal embodiment of authoritarianism, slavery, censorship, and control. Imu destroys entire islands, simply to erase them from history and maintain a false narrative. This makes Imu the perfect ideological opposite to Luffy/Joy Boy, and the concept of liberation. The core themes of Naruto revolved around the tragedy of war, the shinobi system, hard work versus destiny, and breaking the lel "Cycle of Hatred." Pain, Obito, and Madara perfectly represented these themes. When Kaguya appeared, the narrative shifted from a deeply personal, human conflict about war and peace into a sci-fi/fantasy battle to stop a parasitic alien from harvesting a chakra fruit. It disconnected the final battle from the emotional core of the series.

>>287252704
>replacing a villain the audience had immense emotional investment in
It's the complete opposite, lmao. Madara was a massive hypocrite and a fake-ass messiah who loved to preach about how terrible war and the real world are but then thrived like no one else in those battles. Someone as hypocritical and delusional as he needed a massive reality check like this; that's why it was so satisfying to see Black Zetsu give him a reality check and end his delusions of grandeur, because he was no God or savior. He was just as susceptible to being manipulated, used, and discarded as a tool, just like he saw and treated almost everyone else. This was literally the most fitting ending for a character with such a god complex like him.

>It disconnected the final battle from the emotional core of the series.
People who actually read the story would understand this was a full-circle moment for Madara's character. Zetsu's betrayal is a symbolic representation of the first arc of Naruto, which is how shinobi are used as tools. This theme is explored throughout all of Naruto. And while Madara used multiple shinobi as tools and pawns for his benefit, that same fate ironically reached him as well.

>>287252694
Moon people are real and ancient Japan had contact with them.

>>287251228
Correct.

>>287253020
This is just pure cope with someone with low IQ and zero understanding of good story telling. The fact you can find it it be of quality and fulfilling tells everything about you. Naruto isn't good. Bleach is even worse in all these respects. There's not even a theme in that show.

>>287253020
Not him but you have to be on drugs to defend Kaguya. Nothing in your post makes any sense and the idea that "real Naruto fans" liked Kaguya or "Madara getting humbled" shows you weren't even around when it happened

>>287253214
>themes and such
KWAB you’re talking about comics for ten year olds

>>287253214
>no argument
I accept your concession.

>>287253228
Congrats, you failed to interpret my post.

>>287253422
I don't have to defend anything. It was archived in 2015 that Naruto ended poorly. That was already the discussion years leading up to its release. At one point it was considered so cringe that you would get banned from discussing it around here. One Piece never received that same treatment because it wasn't shit/cringe.

>>287253487
Naruto was banned here long before it even started its final arc, in fact by that point it wasn't banned anymore. It had to do with the 12 year old retards from gaia that would swarm the board discussing it (and other battle shounen), nothing to do with the manga itself.

>>287252628
>Kishimoto inserted her into a narrative that already had a perfectly constructed final villain, abruptly shifting the genre and themes of the series at the eleventh hour
Did he, though?
Kaguya is only disconnected from the actual characters, but when it comes to themes she's very much connected with everything else. Naruto is full of issues but the whole point about connection was important.

>>287232999
The ONLY reason Yuha loses to Aizen is lack of panel time, he was the better villain.
>>287248867
Both you and OP missed the mark because like you said, Kaguya is barely a character. The title of final antagonist goes to Black Zetsu and he is fucking terrible, somehow breaking the story more than the ayys.

>>287254026
I mean at that point the final antagonist of Naruto is Sasuke. I wonder why literally everyone acts like that part of the manga never happened.

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>>287232855
TYBW anime improved Yhwach a lot, he's actually cool now

>>287254114
Sasuke is a deuteragonist retard, at no point in the story he is in direct opposition to Naruto. At best they act as narrative foils to each other, their final fight is at the definition of Hokage and who gets to become it.

>>287254282
Yeah but didn't Sasuke say he was going to kill all other kages and keep people in the tsukuyomi? We can say he was bluffing but that's basically as villain as it gets.

I agree with the idea that he is not a villain by the way, but if shit like Zetsu is considered the final villain then you might as well say Sasuke is it. In my opinion Kaguya is the final villain of Naruto, shitty as she is.

>>287232855
3 dogshit manga for retards

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>>287254353
Its the opposite my retard friend, even when he IS a villain because Naruto still sucks his dick he is never the antagonist. So even forgetting how the plot follows him like a second protagonist and he turns into a full blown villain, because Naruto is the protagonist and is completely gay for him, Sasuke can never be an antagonist. And of course you could also argue how despite it all they were always friends and whatnot and other in-universe arguments like their stories going parallel to each other etc etc.
And Kaguya is a villain, a shitty one but a villain nonetheless. I just don't consider her the antagonist because she and Zetsu are basically fused and he is the one responsible for everything and does all the talking and has been around forever... In fact you should she HER has a powerup for him, which is exactly what she is.

>>287233739
What makes yhwach more interesting than the other two in concept and character?

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We all know Kagurabachi will have the best final villain. Chihiro, that is.

>>287255221
nu-shonen don't even seem worth trying so i can't tell what you're talking about

>>287248377
And what a terrible rival he is

>>287255315
>nu-shonen
Take off your retarded boomer faggot glasses and you'll see that shonen's still the same shit it has been for the last 20 years.

>>287234831
>he thinks Bleach has asspulls
I hope this is bait

>>287232997
Not with that attitude

>>287255399
I'd say old shounen had way more interesting premises even if many shat the bed

>>287255399
It might target the same age ranges, but we were cooler as teenagers than the lobotomized faggots of today

>>287255457
If we go by that then Bleach and Naruto are nu-shonen.

>>287255566
type more

>>287255566
Retard

>>287232855
Imu had the coolest ENTER

>>287255102
>Kaguya
Sexy but not a character
>Imu
Exists so Oda can tie his mess and for Luffy to have someone to punch, he subverts a lot of the story we knew and no one likes nu-piece
>Yuha
Justified motivation, sick design, great banter and was both smart and proactive, the only thing he lacked was time
The quincy as a whole were always interesting being completely outside of the rules of the setting in Bleach and its clear from Masaki and OMZ that Kubo had something in mind for them

Yuha isn't the final villain because Bleach hasn't ended. We still have the Hell Arc.

>>287234712
i liked the fullbringer arc because it forced ichigo to deal with being helpless

NARUTO > Bleach > OP

>>287232999
>Madara
>ah yes my plot armor techniqe

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>>287232999
>Hey Zangetsu-san, we're all alone and Ichigo's off to fight Kenpachi but I'm going to call you Zangetsu anyway.
>By the way, you better not say shit like "lol I'm not Zangetsu but Hollow is" because we're both one and the same. If you ever think of doing that, be sure to call me rather than just have a one-on-one with Ichigo okay?
>btw I want his power

>>287232855
The final Quincies for Bleach were just
>lol i has haz
rather than being interesting villains or unique powers. That drags it down.

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>>287232855
I see that plot armor in Yhwach

>>287232883
This surprised me. I'd have thought that to get the point across Luffy would be the positive one here while Blackbeard would be the negative one.

Yet at the end of day, One Piece is still standing. The others are clowned on and forgotten.

>>287258209
the average person on the streets know who aizen or madara are. Warm piss doesnt have a single beloved villain

>>287235116
I watched 20 episodes of that crap, it's literal toxic waste

>>287232855
Naruto's final villain wasn't Kaguya, it was Sasuke with his morally grey motivations. In just the same way the final villain of OP will be Blackbeard with his morally grey motivations.

What Sasuke, Yhwach, and Blackbeard all have in common is that they were all introduced (hinted at in the case of Yhwach) near the beginning of their respective stories. Kaguya and Imu are just the ultimate consequence of their author's respective methods of worldbuilding, but not the ultimate consequence of the direction where they're taking the plot.

The overarching question of OP's plot involves Imu, but arguably is more concerned with Luffy's (Joyboy) and Blackbeard (Davy's) different answers to Imu and his world and how those answers clash with each other.

>>287232855
Kaguya is the only worthwhile of them. On every end imaginable. The people who say she came out of nowhere didn't read the story. Or don't speak Japanese, at least (so they didn't really read the story). You are literally being told about the Kaguya clan pre time skip, Nagato tells you call that the sage of the six paths created the moon and that he sealed something inside of it, and unlike let's say Imu her coming it late perfectly aligns with the plot. Cause for black zetsu to resurrect her he needed someone with the six paths powers. To achieve that, he needed Madara to first do all the shit he had done. And to backstab him, he had to wait for the right opportunity, e.g. him being exhausted and not expecting an attack. In didn't come out of nowhere at all. The moment in which zetsu backstabbed him was the first moment that all the requirements to resurrect Kaguya had been met. It made perfect sense. And unlike someone like Imu Kaguya is indifferent to her "subjects". She's a natural force, she had no immediate agenda that she's been failing to execute despite being directly involved. Since she was "dead" or at most dormant.

Whereas the issue with someone like Imu is that you need to seriously try to weasel your way out of explaining why the guy is so fucking incompetent despite being all powerful, present and constantly observing. You simply can't explain in a reasonable manner why Luffy was allowed to live once the WG learned that the had rubber powers. It makes no sense and no matter how much Warm Pissere cope it never will. You can't have the villains walk around killing babies but then not send admiral and holy knight and gorosei and Imu himself after early grand line Luffy. It doesn't add up and never will. That alone already makes Imu dog shit, cause he's fucking incompetent beyond belief.

>>287232855
Kaguya is the worst one by far.

Yuha is okay.

>>287234955
JoJo already mogs two of those categories.

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>>287232855
>>287232883
The final villain in One Piece will be Shanks, and the battle between him and Luffy will be to show whether Luffy is worthy enough to give Shanks his hat back. Plus, the story has been hyping up Shanks a bit too much.

>>287262159
jojo doesn't have either

>>287234955
>Naruto's characters writing
No fucking way. Naruto's characters are undercooked in Shippuden the heavy focus on Naruto and Sasuke parallels made everyone who wasn't in a NaruSasu-esque rivalry irrelevant.

>>287260644
Sasuke wasn't even a villain in the final fight he just wanted to pursue a more extremist solution for the greater good

>>287232855
Damn that's a sorry triad of bad villains. Shonentards will eat any shit.

>>287262256
Imu wants to fuck Vivi. His goals are understandable.

>>287262012
>why the guy is so fucking incompetent despite being [headcanon]

>>287232913
we know more about imu than we do teach and imu is THE mystery nigga.
if he was the final boss he wouldn't already feel challenged by the strawhats. even his strongest posse can't do shit, especially now that they know how to counter immortality.
imu looking like a standard shonen final boss seems like a setup for a subversion.

>>287262313
>Last chapter literally had him flashback on relevant world event of the past 50 or somethig years
>He doesn't know anything OK?
Do pissfags really? Anyway, you can't do what Hackda did here. Logue Town is literally beneath Marigeois isn't it? Jew Peter or whoever had the bird fruit could have jslust flow down and gibbed goofy. Even if you assume that he doesn't know shit about what's happenig (which is cope of the highest order) he's incompetent for not telling the Gorosei the properties of the goofy fruit so they can kill whoever looks like they have it. Cause he knows what powers it gives. There's no way to spin it.

>>287257480
Quincy final powers
>I literally cannot die
>You cannot kill me
>My power allows me to circumvent death
>You cannot avoid my attack
>You cannot defend against my attack

>>287262372
>Jew Peter
Yeah, that's you, nigga. You're the worst of them all. A fucking JEW, Peter.

i have dropped one piece near the end of egghead but from what i read
imu and the WG has been a fucking joke since the nika reveal because of the fact that they ignored luffy having the fruit, i can't take them seriously adding oda fear of actually killing anyone, and the shitty generic design, he's by far the worst at least kaguya was like what 10-15 chapters? and sasugay was the final fight anyway
Yuha has the best design and at least killed someone

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>>287248456
if anything it's his imperfections that give him even more aura. in a sense he's the actual protagonist, he's the one going through an arc, chasing what ken had already reached well before.
by the final arc he's the one preparing for ken's arrival and not the other way around.
in the end it's two mens fighting honorably over their different views and he loses with grace.

>>287244639
GT is a lot better at (a few) of its concepts too. Super 17 is kinda shit and the secret dragonballs too (although I appreciate the idea of making DragonBall about the dragonballs again) but "alien whose planet was wiped by saiyans" is a good premise and the idea of the dragonballs themselves being the final villain because of the accumulated corruption of people using their wishes selfishly is great. Too bad 6/7 of the dragons suck ass.

>>287262462
gt is the perfect "better than you remember" anime. it has neat concepts and good designs but then you watch it and you find yourself with terrible pacing, mediocre animation and some really abysmal writing. it also massively wastes its own cast.
for all its flaws super at least has the side cast doing minor stuff in the background, piccolo in gt has a total of like 5 minutes of screentime and vegeta is completely irrelevant until the very final battle.
super has enough "toriyama" in it that i like it more regardless of its immense flaws.

>>287246105
It objectively is way more popular than BC, and the Big Three were always a matter of popularity.

>>287249140
Yeah but Naruto did the reveal at the eleventh hour and OP did it years ago and kept going.

>>287262229
You can say a lot of shit about JoJo but Araki might be the best character designer alive when it comes to manga.

piss is the most invisible big manga ever.
it sells gazillion but people reaction towards it pretty much "oh that popular BACKGROUND manga"

>>287262908
araki has some of the ugliest designs ever put to paper

>>287259209
Imu is more famous than both. That will be evident in the coming years

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Jesus, Imu mogs them. Hard.

>>287262609
I really don't like post-BoG Super, starting with how pointlessly stupid and unnecessary SSJB is, but I will concede that the Ultra Instinct song goes hard. But honestly I could really do without both of the series and I wish they'd let DB rest. The only thing I could possibly want is a high quality remake of the whole anime and that's never going to happen.

>>287263187
Name them.

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>>287263422
>>287263521
>compares google trends of a villain that was revealed last week to mangas that ended over a decade ago
OPtards really are retarded, huh

>>287263575
>Big bad was teased years in advance
>In a manga that has to do with world government corruption he was silhouetted as an Illuminati tier individual
>Now has been revealed to be a devil with traits and characteristics tying him to other races establishing in a 30-year long-running manga

He's just say better handled than the literal who's from the other 2 dead shows

>>287263038
It is actually staggering to experience this. By all means OP is popular as fuck and even here on /a/ it gets tons of threads, and yet it doesn't feel nearly as culturally pervasive as it used to. I feel like I used to become passively familiar with pre-TS stuff but when I see popular characters who've existed in post-TS OP for years I'll have no idea who they are half the time. And it's not just me not following it, because I didn't follow AoT or JJK or even MHA yet I still passively absorbed tons of info about them the way I used to with OP. It may be just speculation on my part but I think it's because OP's popularity is declining rather than climbing nowadays (objectively visible sales and trends wise), it's just that it reached such a high that it's still above everything else even as it slowly falls down from there.

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>>287232855
Imu > Yhwach > Kaguya
I liked pre-final form Yhwach but his final gooey multi-eyes form is too goofy.

So what was the point of making Imu a shadow figure up to this point beside aura?

Honestly not one

>>287263666
>I feel like I used to become passively familiar with pre-TS stuff but when I see popular characters who've existed in post-TS OP for years I'll have no idea who they are half the time.
Same. Last time I knew new characters in OP by cultural osmosis was Dressrosa

>>287232855
It’s going to be Ywach, which is hilarious

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>>287232855
>Kaguya
>final villain
Sasuke was the final villain retard.

>>287232999
>it has to be the guy who was actually foreshadowed from the beginning
You Kubo dick riders are insane.

>>287251228
Honestly Kubo was never a great writer but he always had a huge talent for drawing shit that looks cool, and he kind of never lost that. Both late Naruto and current OP suffer heavily from art deterioration, in a really similar way honestly, and I don't think late Bleach did.
Actually why does it always feel the same when a manga's art goes downhill? Current OP, late Naruto, and CSM2 all have the same weird feeling to them. Like there's something visually off about the way lines are drawn.

>>287232855

My prediction is that Blackbeard becomes King of the Pirates first, and Luffy has to fight him to dethrone him.

>>287263653
>teased years in advance but as MC's inner friend
>in a manga where the "good guy" faction has done tons of evil shit he leads the faction they've wronged
>then was revealed as God's son tying him to the rest of the lore in a 10+ year long running manga
Yhwach was handled pretty well too until a certain point

>>287233829
Sasuke was introduced in the 3rd chapter.

>>287263982
>teased years in advance
This is pure cope.

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>>287251228
>>287253108
The smallest dog always barks the loudest.

>>287244639
No it fucking isn't, get your head out of your ass you retarded nostalgia-faggot. I'm sick of the revisionism retards like you try to push as if we're supposed to all pretend GT wasn't the biggest pile of fucking dogshit that was worse than the lowest points of Super.
No, Shenron/baby/super17 looked like shit. SS4 looked like shit. UI and any of the Super antagonists looked better, even the fucking recolors. It had a better opening song, that's about it.

>>287263877
Rival, not villain. Not everyone opposing the protagonist is a villain, Sasuke was just his gay lover that he needed to win over at the end.

>>287264048
Nigga what else do you call Zangetsu

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>>287232855
>not a busty woman
>just a lamer Kaguya
ODA HAD ONE JOB

>>287263748
Hide he's a Lunarian, which has implications.

>>287263968
Buggy will become King in the end.

I personally don't care for Imu. In the great war to claim the One Piece I really can't care for him or most of his cronies because most of them just kinda blend in together and feel the same. That plus him just having the most generic shonen villain powers ever like regen and such.
If anyone's the final boss of the series I hope it's Blackbeard. Or Buggy, that'd be funny. Both of them are preferable to me because they weren't introduced 900 chapters in and haven't only now become relevant 1100 chapters in.

>>287263666
>>287263845
This also has to do with the bubblification of the internet. Cultural osmosis happens much less than it used to except for the ultra mainstream normalfag stuff.

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>>287235256
>Yuha is aura. Personified.
Yes.

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>>287256847
>>Kaguya
>Sexy but not a character
What does this even mean. It's literally one of the most popular japanese mythical characters. and it's a really good story too.

>>287263895
I don't feel like the manga you mentioned are all the same in terms of lines or drawings. The problem in general for long-running manga is the layouts getting flatter and flatter, sucking out the emotion of every scene. And the clutter that piles up because the author is unconsciously always rushing.

One Piece has the added chicken scratch effect that makes it even worse.

>>287256847
I don't know why but i always found bleach to be my least favorite and least interesting of the big three including final villains no hate though