Realistically speaking, exactly when, where and how should a series have ended, or at least should readers hop off?Besides OP, it's damn near universally excepted that >Bleach fell off after The Soul Society >Naruto vs Pain made for the better climax >and, most recently, Part 1 should've been the ONLY part of CSM Dragon Ball is unique in that it has at least 3 "endings" that fans have contested for the proper finally (Piccolo Jr, Frieza, Cell). Thoughts? Anyone?
>>287336539>csm 1part 1 has a few loose ends but its a better ending for sure, not a good one though>naruto it always was trash, kaguya was the cherry on top>bleachit always was trash
I am not brown and thus do not spend my time thinking about series made for 13 year olds like this.
>>287336539People jerking off part 1 were too retarded for the manga to begin with. >besides OPGarbage should have ended a decade ago. If you neef 1000 chapters to tell your story it's not worth telling to begin with.
>>287336539Yeah, say what you will about JJK and how it ended, but at least it didn't seemingly go on forever, wasting more and more of everyone's time and money. As for Oda, I hope the poor guy just finishes and has a life after whatever ending we get, unlike Miura, rest his soul.
>>287336539>hyping up Sauron only to retcon him into a shota dindu Dafuq?
>>287336539This is the inherent problem with the manga + publisher format. When a publisher hits a gold mine, they milk it to death instead of ending on a good note. Most authors would rather prolong the inevitable conclusion by adding fillers. Just fucking look at Hajime no Ippo. Almost 40 years of story but most of the plot that was established in the 90s were not even resolved. Why? Who fucking knows. Maybe the author doesn't even care anymore. In the end it's all about money and Japanese greed. On the other hand, Baki is probably the only running manga that concluded all the established plot in 2012 which is Baki vs Yujiro and then continued the series just to fuck around with the remaining side characters. I think this is a much better way to write a manga. Give what the audience wants, finish the main plots and then if there is still demand just continue the story even if what the characters are doing are basically not that important. So if we use this logic in One Piece, Luffy finds the One Piece and becomes a Pirate King 10 years ago but the manga doesn't end because the story shifts into fulfilling the dreams of his friends. Sure that would look anticlimactic but think about it. You won't have to plod through fillers. You won't get blueballed. And the best thing about it, you have an end point.
>>287336539The stage before they got approved for serialization.
>>287337239https://youtu.be/jDOrc8FmDy4
>>287336539>Bleach fell off after The Soul SocietyNo it didn't. Pretty much all the best moments and memed moments came after SS.
>>287337444>ending with The Soul Society would've spared us the onion spin GOOD
>>287337239so one piece is never going to end??
>>287337675We're supposedly in the final arc, but I wouldn't hold my breath so soon.
I wish Raildex's author finished the main story beats and focused on already existing side characters instead of milking it by adding 30 characters each volume of the LN. Imagine if One Piece added 300 characters every volume instead of every arc.
>>287336539Athletes give up at the top for a reason.
>>287337675If the publisher and Oda wants to...yes. The point is having an end point. Something for the reader to have in the back of their mind that the main story is concluded. Because you don't want a scenario like Berserk where the author passed away and didn't conclude his manga. All those time making filler chapters and writing Giganto Maxia would've served better if he focused on the main plot.
>>287336539Demon Slayer got it right.
>>287337675One Piece generates so much money that they aren't ending it anytime soon. Not sure what exactly Oda has planned but even if he finishes the story we're seeing a sequel / prequel right after. We'll see new One Piece series for the following decades
>>287336539>Naruto vs Pain made for the better climaxonly the fans who hate Sasuke and the Uchiha think that. although that is like 60% of the fandom.
killing off the main character and ending it in one season
>>287336539Dragon Ball doesn't have a dropoff point because Buu makes Cell worth it (and Cell's ending is also pretty good)
>>287337087I agree, wtf?
>>287336653>I do not care about this post or its topic, which is why I wasted my precious time clicking on and responding to it Good one.
>>287336539When the content the author planned for is exhausted. It's painfully obvious when they start winging it
>>287337998Except tons of athletes nowadays try to compete until they're like 40
For me it's Dragon ball, DBZ and GT but not the shadow dragon saga. Everything else doesn't exist to me
>>287336539JJK and Shibuya
>>287337998That's because sports will give you a life of surgeries and physical ailments. Some bikers have hearts so deformed they beat at less than 30 bpm and the athlete has to wake up during deep sleep or else they die from heart failure.
>>287339731Wow, you'll take even Super 17?
>>287340215Surely that's only for some select sports and very select athletes, right?
>>287340229I don't remember super 17.
>>287340387Yeah, I don't blame you.
>>287340261Most sports with long periods of exertion causes it. It's benign, but some extreme cases require a pacemaker because sleep might kill them.
>>287337998it is extremely rare for athletes to not play until the wheels fall off. Even in sports with significant health risks they still usually play through their primes. It just makes sense since they only have a relatively brief window to compete and then it's the rest of their lives where they'll never get that high again
>>287336539one piece peaked with water 7->enies lobby and was unrecoverable after the timeskip
>>287336539>The ideal stopping point for battle shounenAfter the series' national-level threat big bad has been defeated.When you go to a point where one villain threatens the entire planet or more, you've lost the plot and there's no more room for interesting battles.
>>287337087>>287338745So, I guess we're not gonna talk about that?
>>287341365Guess not.
>>287337239The best case is when the plot IS resolved, then they milk it with a second part. At least that way you have a satisfying and complete first part and can ignore the second half. Hokuto no Ken works like that. Dragonball too, because Toriyama was writing by the seat of his pants, so all plots tend to be self contained in arcs except for a big section from the saiyans up through Freeza, but you could end after Freeza or Cell easily and just stop reading and even though you'd miss good stuff, it wouldn't feel like a cheat. Hell, you could end after the 23rd Budokai. He flies off with Chichi and that's also a potential end. Stories with more complicated plotlines and mysteries have to answer them in good time, otherwise they've ruined the reader's investment.
>>287342700>>287336539>not watching/reading the entire Buu saga and dropping right before the weird final episode + with all of Super content being non-canon bonus filler
>>287342779yep
>>287337087>>287338745>>287341876I think they're talking about Zeref.
>>287343096ah
>>287336539Evangelion should have ended in that scene with Asuka in the hospital, after Shinji jacks off onto her tits he should have climbed up into the bed and tried to put his dick in her mouth and then she suddenly wakes up from her coma and in a sudden fit of Asukarage she bits his dick off like Armin Meiwes who was also German (not to be confused with Arminass who was from Dutch and from outer space) and Shinji screams for 5 whole minutes as he thrashes around on the floor and bleeds out, the screen is from Shinji’s POV as his vision strobes white from the pain while Asuka glares down at him with blood running down from her mouth and mixing with the cum on her chest, the color gradually fades from the screen and tunnel vision closes in from the sides, after the screen turns black we hear Asuka spitting Shinji’s dick out onto the floor and saying “pathetic” and then the credits roll over a montage of all the characters in the movie looking down at Shinji’s corpse and saying “pathetic” this includes the angels and the evas and even Lilith. In an after credits scene Kaworu walks in, looks down for a long time, picks up the dick, and leaves without saying anything.
>who was from Dutch excuse me while I go outside and shoot myself in the head
>>287336539One of the issues that is not technically inherent but is too common to Shounen is everything needs to converge to a single point and that means everything gets turbocucked especially when it gets popular and it starts to get milked.>Two characters have an obvious romance can't be payed off for ten years until they beat the big bad guy (and sales have started to dip)>Character growth? The MC can't fully do that until he's fighting for everything he loves in the most important battle >Characters literately aging can't happen because it doesn't fit with the themes >The power has to keep scaling because it's important for the finale fight to have the full impact of MC unlocking his potential>we have to invent 87 new worlds/countries/lands while every place we've seen before completely stops being relavent because the story is about exploration and growth so every arc has to take place in a new placeIf authors weren't cowards and either just ended stories when they clearly meant to do it or didn't rely on tropes as a fallback it wouldn't be such a huge issue.
>>287343096I still don't get it.
>>287337675Wan piss will become a corpse franchise just like Dragon Ball has become. Arguably already is in spirit.People love to forget this, to pretend otherwise, but all this shit is a business first and foremost. And money talks.
bump
>>287343644The character growth thing is especially egregious imo. There's only so much story you can put into a proper character arc, you can only have so many story climaxes while neglecting character development. As much as I like One Piece or Dragon Ball, Luffy is not an interesting character when it comes to psychological growth, and neither is Goku. I think you can have a long series, even a battle shounen, that manages to do this, but it would need to be properly planned out from beginning to end, not just "this is kinda where it should go", but basically a complete outline, with character arcs and story arcs already fully fleshed out before the first chapter is even finalized.
>>287345908I'd argue Goku grows more than enough during Dragon Ball. He's not the same guy between early Saiyans and Namek/Cell or even Buu.
>>287343644Powercreep is definitely one of the negative consequence of milking a franchise. OP started as a funny adventure manga with magical powers but eventually devolved into DBZ battles because it dragged too long and also because it has to compete with other shonen titles. Can't have Luffy be just a funny rubber man. Now he has to fight like a god. Same with Naruto and Boruto which devolved into stupid magic Aliens plot. The funny thing is, the highest point of Boruto was when people were fussing about who Sarada's mother really is. I mean Sakura potentially getting cucked by Karin brought more attention than whatever magic villains Boruto is facing right now.
>>287336539stopped here without a single regretand I stopped reading battle shounen
One piece is trash
>>287339790Why would you end a story with the bad guys winning?
>>287336539Once a series has given its thesis statement it should end promptly. But since these are Japanese comic books concerned only with enough sales to sustain the writer until they're 40, these standards are rarely followed.
>>287337998Lebron is 41.
After the first or maybe second arc. Most mangaka only had one or two good ideas for story arcs in their minds, but then they'll head to Namek and keep dragging their series out as long as they don't get axed because managing to be PICKED UP is a miracle they're not sure they can repeat.
>>287337675>>287338255>>287344247Makes you wonder if all the "One Piece will end in five years, for sure this time" we hear every five years from Oda are him being sincere.He's either really bad at planning and estimating timeframes, or the suits simply tell him "no."
>>287344826
>>287336539Probably after your first big antagonist finally gets knocked off unless the author has a clear idea and clean segue into the next arc. Problem authors have is having ideas up to a certain point and then being forced to extend beyond it. Introducing a new twist villain behind everything no one could have seen coming. A new power system/level never before seen that completely invalidates what was previously the pinnacle. It cheapens everything that came before and usually ends up being mere spectacle.
One Piece is a weird case because during it's golden age it was episodic, mostly self-contained adventures. Every arc could have it's own satisfying ending, the powerlevels stayed (mostly) stable, the main characters staying static was less of a problem because the world around them could change. It only started going downhill when Oda decided the main plot needed to take over.
>>287351325Wasn't the search for a legendary buried treasure the main plot from the outset? Hell, it's the title of the series itself.
>>287351325>>287351388Yeah, if anything, Oda's problem is that he became DISTRACTED from his main plot.
>>287336539Naruto vs Sasuke rematch was the logical ending of that franchise. So much that Kishimoto declined Part 3.Why do people think otherwise?
>>287336539Why are you screenshotting your own post OP? Are you gay?
>>287337998Nah, most of them give up a little bit too late after the top. Fedor is a perfect example of that.
>>287351517>Part 3You mean we were denied a proper continuation after Shippuden only for the series to get aBORTed?
>>287336539Ideally a good battleshounen has 3 'parts'>part 1Begins with episodic monster-of-the-week with a slice of life on the side to familiarize the audience with the cast and their relationships, the overall concept and how 'battles' work in a low-stakes context. Gradually transitions to an arc of growth and discovery as the characters are introduced to the wider world, their training becomes more regimined out of a necessity to grow their abilities and they 'discover' hidden natures/true potential that will become a hingepoint for the series. Transitions into the first major battle 'arc' where that training and growth is tested and their position in the world is complicated. This should ultimately introduce a primary overarching conflict or a recurring antagonistThink, early bleach into Soul Society or Early DBZ into Namekcont'd
>>287351915>part 2The characters, now wholly a part of the world and with their abilities developed enter into a wider and more complex conflict involving more of the factions and contexts that the characters entered into in the first part. Here you have the cast greatly expanded with side characters and villains-turned-good who all get separate battles with their own interesting and unique abilities. The crux of the conflict is something that precedes the protagonists but that they have inherited as a part of their world, and will see the protagonist grow from being simply another of the rank & file in this wider conflict, to rising to the top and being the one to ultimately resolve it. This is the quintessential tournament arc and even when it isn't a literal tournament, it will still take the form of wider 'preliminary' battles between an expanded cast of characters that steadily narrow until it culminates in a one-on-one 'finals' with the protagonist and antagonist. Key to this arc is that the protagonists abilities or hidden potential is already revealed and has become normalized. Suddenly being Super Saiyan isn't 'enough' anymore and growth becomes incremental rather than exponential, mastery instead of discovery.Think YYH's Dark Tournament as the quintessential example.cont'd
>>287351929>part 3This is where the story takes a step back from the peak of part 2's spectacle creep. We return to lower stakes, lower powerlevel conflicts. The protagonist's faith in their powers is undermined, or maybe the nature of the conflict makes those powers irrelevant and they must learn new ones. The essence of this part is that the morality of the past 2 parts is undermined, the protagonist discovers some secret truth about their world that muddies the righteousness of their "side" or challenges their vision of heroism. The threats are not threats to the world, but to their loved ones or to the established order, with stakes elevating due to the threat to personal connections that the previous two parts built up. The villain has a justifiable reason for what they do, even if they aren't necessarily morally right and the protagonist's journey of growth is about the exploration of motive and justification rather than strength and power. Maybe they need to sacrifice power for the sake of happiness, or simply discovers that with the absense of a black and white good guy/bad guy conflict, their powers are meaningless.Fights here are decidedly lower spectacle but escalate in stakes with power levels that jump between absolute extremes because the linear powerscale no longer matters. The culmination of this part is the protagonist establishing a pretext to exit the world that they entered in part 1, either retiring to happiness with their work done, or by internalizing the perspective of the antagonist and rejecting the worldThink here of the final arc of Shaman King or of Hunter Hunter's Chimera Ants. Even Bleach's "Thousand Year Blood War" made gestures to this muddying of powerlevels and morality if only superficially.Any battleshounen that continues beyond this part is a walking corpse, treading water until it's mercifully cancelled.
>>287351388Not really. It was an explanation for why there's so many pirates and why they need to travel the world. Luffy wants to be free, the other strawhats have dreams that drive them to travel the world and go on adventures. Only Robin really wants to find the One Piece and that's just because she wants the history.
>>287337239HxH also got a proper ending and is now just fucking around with side characters.
>>287350973again
>>287342700At least the second part of Hokuto no Ken is reasonably good, even if there was no way it would be as good as the first part.
>>287336539>>Naruto vs Pain made for the better climaxNaruto vs Pain should've been around the same time as Sasuke vs Itachi and Itachi should've stayed a villain. After Nart and Sauce defeat their adversaries, they have a rematch and that fight could end like the one in the actual manga did.
>>287336539It would be nice for a trend of authors to make smaller stories that can be wrapped up in a couple years. The trend of needing 300 chapter series that spawn endless merch leads to an industry that stifles creativity in some respects. I think getting away from the magazine format might eventually help stop that if digital manga ever becomes more appealing to the nips.
>>287352477It's meant to be episodic but everyone expects the plot to resolve at the end. Like Pokemon and Ash becoming a Pokemon master.
>>287351325I think the editor forced Oda to increase the power level of the characters trying to compete with Bleach and Naruto.
>>287354652Yeah, maybe. When was Marineford? 2010? I guess the first big power up was the gears in, what 2005? Naruto was big. Bleach was starting soul society. Hunter x Hunter was on hiatus.
>>287355427Yep its when Gears was introduced. I also believe it is the same reason why female characters got a bust increase after the time skip. Both Naruto and Bleach got plenty of sexy characters. Oda can't really do much but increase the boobage because his art style doesn't have a lot of details.
>>287352056Yup, also Fullbringer/Danmachi Freya arc. This is when the shonen turns soft seinen-esque. The finale of Danmachi is part 4 and that will be so big that it'll overturn all of shonen. From that point, battle shonen will start having the Part 4. Also a school intermission arc for part 3.5.
The ideal way for Fairy Tail (I guess 100 year quest) to end is with Natsu on-panel close-up penetrating Lucy
>>287336539>Besides OPTypical dipshit One Piece fan insulting every other shonen and being delusional.
>>287357183
>>287357804Hope he enjoys Gray's sloppy seconds.
>>287336539It's a hard question to answer, because while saying "X should've ended at Y" seems simple, ending at any of those specific points would leave a lot hanging, and not in the intentional, satisfying sort of way.Dragon Ball? Piccolo Jr works, but you can't stop after Freeza, because Goku eventually coming back is something that you're meant to look forward to. He'd also look pretty shitty if the series ended with him just training in space for ages without telling his friends. You can point at the end of Z, but at least Goku saw his family off there and was training his replacement. Plus, if you end at Freeza, Gohan's potential man stuff would remain unsolved, even if Cell did a piss poor job at using it.Bleach? You can't end at Soul Society, it sets up way too much. Even if you wrote out all the Aizen stuff, it'd feel really off to introduce Shikai and Bankai only to barely use the concept.Naruto? You can't end with Pain. Again, even writing out any future plot points, there's no real context for why Naruto and Sasuke would have their final fight, and if you keep Sasuke's newfound hatred of Konoha, then Naruto would need to learn about that and it'd turn into a whole arc of facing the problems of the shinobi system at its root. Which sounds good, but you can't cut from the aftermath of Pain to the final battle.CSM less so than the others, but the Horsemen and other Hybrids not getting further elaboration (not like the latter ever did lol) would be lame. On brand and it wouldn't ruin the plot, but it'd feel pointless to not do anything with the concepts.Ultimately, it's not as easy as just putting "The End" in the middle of these stories. They'd need to be fully reconstructed in order for said ending point to be fitting. And if the authors were capable of doing that to begin with, these franchises wouldn't have gone to shit and this conversation wouldn't be happening.
>>287336539Rave lost. Completely forgotten and overshadowed. We spit on it.
>>287360709Nobody here even mentioned Rave, but it is a good example of a series that tells its full story without overstaying its welcome like the others here. In that regard, it's a winner.
just watch the first 'sode of naruto and i really liked it. wish i watched it when i was a kid
>>287360709I remember seeing that once. I don't remember what I saw but I remember seeing it.
>>287360937This.A complete story that lasts only as long as needed, money be damned.
>>287336539You can get away, in shounen, ideally, with one world-class overarching villain, one guy behind him (and his other henchmen) if you show earlier than the death of the first one that he was a puppet on some level, and one post-story superthreat. You usually need to forego one or two of those three if you have a war arc or a timeskip. Naruto's first one was Orochimaru, then the akatsuki foreshadowed Madara/Kaguya as the puppet master, but the timing was botched by a ninja war and timeskip.OP had the world government since the beggining, but the war had adverse effects on the timeskip so everything overstayed its welcome before Imu got introduced as the puppetmaster.Dragonball started on a higher powerlevel and made itself episodic, so it could survive having that format.Gash Bell should've ended on Faudo, Clear Note feels too disconnected from the story, though it doesn't detract as much.Yu Yu Hakusho has a lackluster ending if only because of the lack of an actual last tournament, but the timing of the ending was actually great.Bleach should've ended after the Hueco Mundo arc, not because later arcs suck, but because they feel disjointed.Magi should've ended a bit after the Magnostadt war, with Sinbad dying while helping Aladin against the Chinese; while Aladin vs Sinbad is a cool concept it detracts from the whole.FMA should've ended like the 03 anime did, everything after Mira and the ice base is boring and drags.
>>287336539>or at least should readers hop off?There are too many incentives to keep a successful manga going, so for readers the only practical advice is to not subscribe to sunk cost fallacy and stop reading something once it's become too shit for you to find any enjoyment
There isn't a single manga that runs for longer than 20 volumes that isn't doing it just for the money. And it's fine, but let's not pretend otherwise.
>>2873607091. Like >>287360937 said, nobody mentioned Rave previously. 2. Geez, what happened to appreciating overlooked gems?
>>287361421>FMA should've ended like the 03 anime didBite your tongue, mister!
>>287336539>i have nothing to do with my life so I will debate fake "what ifs" in the internetEvery good arc is a strike of luck of both great ideas, good reception and artistic freedom. Every bad arc is a strike of bad luck, a mix of not so great ideia, editorial pressure and artistic exhaustion of years of non stop work.
>>287336539>Naruto vs Pain made for the better climaxI somewhat agree but it was always going to end with Naruto vs Sasuke, which ended up being great when the two were reduced to going into fisticuffs but the rest of the Shinobi World War was genuinely ass in execution that I really wish it just ended sooner after Naruto vs Pain. The only reason I can be okay of the Shinobi World War's existence is how tied up many character threads that were still dangling around but that's faint praise.>>287336830>Yeah, say what you will about JJK and how it ended, but at least it didn't seemingly go on forever, wasting more and more of everyone's time and money.This. And it's why I'm perfectly okay with where JJK ended with Sukuna as the final boss with Modulo feeling more like an extended epilogue.
>>287353483>After Nart and Sauce defeat their adversaries, they have a rematch and that fight could end like the one in the actual manga did.Yup, that's what most people expected and wanted instead of what we got. Even if you threw in Obito egging on Sasuke's revenge, he should've been relegated as a villain for Itachi to deal with instead of turning the whole thing into some bloated war arc.
>>287352585That is a good stopping point but everything that comes after it is also kino
>>287360709Unprovoked slander against my boy Haru will NOT be tolerated!
>>287336539Bleach could've ended with Rukia and Ichigo saying goodbye, or with Ichigo fucking Unagi.
>>287360709
>>287362048I don't mind that the ending is "safe", it's just that, by the time it finally ends, I can't bring myself to care about the characters, or the closure of their arcs, anymore. This would've been a fine ending if it happened 2 thirds into the series.
>>287360709What Rave fan pissed in your cornflakes?
>>287360709Based, OP is seething.
>>287352585>>287362599HxH is genuinely lucky that Togashi has different endings planned depending on the longevity of the series. I do applaud him for being conscientious enough of his audience to plan that far and I wish more authors were like that especially if their series ends up going for longer or stopping short.
>>287365236I'm pretty sure more authors would do this as well if Jump wasn't too quick to axe a lot of their series. Now Jump is in panic mode trying to find the next One Piece.
>>287344093OP's been spamming this for a while now, he's a little retarded. TLDR his ship didn't eventuate and the author's newer work completely overshadowed his preferred timeflop, so he's a bit melty.
>>287336539>>Naruto vs Pain made for the better climax>danzo becomes hokage>sasuke set to destroy the leaf>akatsuki still alive>naruto never conquers the nine tails>we never see any of the other kage/villages>never find out who tobi is>never know about the sage of six pathsetc etc. it's a good ending to the arc, but there are way too many loose ends for it to be remotely a satisfying stopping point.
>>287336539The main story has to be wrapped up for it to end.Bleach was nowhere near wrapped up after soul society so that was just doomed to go down hill before finishing.Naruto was in the same boat, although all the absolute bullshit they threw on in the end could have just been dropped and it just be simplerDragon ball is a selection of stories really but it didn't drop in quality enough to really say it should have ended earlier. What you can say is the buu saga could have been better optimised without so much fucking padding and sideplot distractions like gotenks fusion.what do you mean "part 1" chainsawman wrapped up nicely and perfectly with him defeating the gun demon and the twist villain being his boss in the final chapters. It was a good ending. I don't know why people were coping that there would be more after a break years ago, it ended deal with it.
>>287339577Drive-by shitposting doesn't take a lot of effort, and simply being on /a/ is a waste of precious time.
>>287336539Ohhh finally a thread like this>Chainsaw ManPart 1 is the most obvious end point. SHART POO is fucking awful. Just make a few chapters of denji finding power and reuniting with reze and end part 1 as the finale>Jojo Part 7 was a good stopping point. I dont know why Araki continued when he hit his peak writing and story with part 7 and continued to repeat old arcs with 8 and 9 for no reason>DragonballFrieza with Gokus arc concluding and if not, Cell saga with Gokus sacrifice and Gohan carrying the torch. I dont know why dragonball exists past Cell>Hunter x HunterWhen Gon met his dad. Togashi is retarded to introduce the Dark Continent when not only does it double the length of the series he no longer wants to make, its also something that feels impossible to fully explore and properly finish. Just make a final arc for the spiders and carry on>AoTAt the beach, period.>NarutoI guess at the end of Pain arc followed by a final fight with sasuke not long after but there was too much set up for it. The moment Naruto started crying for Sasugay, it was over for that garbage series>One PieceAt Marineford. Just make it a story of pirates who failed and never extend it to the disastrous and painful timeskip arc>Death NoteMake L's death a sacrifice to stopping Light and end it>MHA and JJKNo place because those series were always trash
>>287365837A lot of these are either not very meaningful as payoffs (who cares that Danzo was shown during the invasion getting ready to become Hokage? Literally nobody) or straight up unnecessary (Naruto doesn't have to conquer the nine tails, early Shippuden actually says he should avoid it altogether and it's only poisoning him. It was retconned instead)
>>287336539Easy one, Hajime no Ippo should have ended after the Rookie King arc. At most an epilogue chapter showing 20 years later with Ippo world champion or something. Instead we're actually 20 years later and we have Ippo the brain damaged trainer and Sendo is about to die.
Pain arc fucking sucks.>new transformation that was never foreshadowed at any point>new jiraiya student that was never foreshadowed at any point>villain's powers are just utterly random bullshit (yes i am aware of the buddhist references, it's still fucking retarded that one guy's power is literally being a robot and shooting missiles)>entire arc is undermined from the start because it's already revealed that the real akatsuki mastermind is the one who sent pain to the village in the first place>everybody stands around doing nothing until naruto shows up>the one guy who would've just opened 7 gates and shitstomped pain in 2 seconds is conveniently "out on a mission">yahiko is a naruto clone but so is nagato>"i don't have any answers but just keep believin-dattebayo">konan just decided to stop being a villain for no reason (she wasn't even tnj'd by naruto, she was just THERE when nagato was tnj'd)
