>>287344145
Ugliest, most annoying side character in existence.

>>287344145
Thought the spirit idea was cool, other than that I don't remember much of it and I think I'm mistaking some scenes for another anime.

>>287344145
"Oversoul with less spirit points can't beat an oversoul with more spirit points"

This is fucking shit. The worst iteration possible for powerlevel rot. The entire last few arcs are utterly ruined by this. Oh, that and Yoh's powerup being him becoming emotionless

>>287344202
which one of them

I read here that 90% of it its ripoff of other anime more popular

>>287344145
The remake was shit, Chocolove with censored lips is cursed

>287344145
Loved the concept of it though. First few parts were great and the fight with the plant guy at the end was cool

>>287344530
I'm not talking about the anime. I only watched the 01's anime btw.

>>287344527
Those anons have stunted growth. Stories are similar to one another and the best stories ever written built on ideas and inspiration from previous stories.

>>287344145
Good start, mediocre in the middle, shit by the end.

>>287344145
Rereading it gave me a strange boner for Yoh

>>287344527
that's basically every piece of media, nothing is original anon

>>287344145
Mickey is easy to love, and easier to hate
Marco is hard to love, but harder to hate

I don't think I would have read it all the through outside of storytime

>>287344145
First manga I've read, first manga i bought, first manga I've followed a waited weekly to know what's gonna happens next. You see it, make me pretty nostalgic. With a critic eye i don't like that the art has become harder to follow and the new oversouls or whatever are too convoluted.

It was special for me,wait all those years to finally know how they stopped hao and coincidentally i was into Bob Marley in those years it was a good match.

>>287344743
>>287344689
no i mean literally the same concept just made about shamans even if they didnt fit in the story

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Takei is good at scenes, great at world-building, but terrible at narratives. It's a funky combination that hurts more than it helps but there's a lot to love about it.

>>287346024
wut anime?

>>287344145
aged like milk. Gash Bell is a much better example of a battle shounen from the same period that aged gracefully

>>287344145
Look around you, look beyond
You could make an unbreakable bond

>>287344145
Really liked it but couldn't really get into the sequels, may try again

>>287344145
I liked it enough to finish it without complaining, but I don't even need a second viewing to know I wouldn't like it again. And it's not some realization that I had to grow up to come to, the credits rolled on the final episode and in under a week (amd without hearing anyone else's opinions) I decided that it was kinda shit.

>>287344145
A lot of semi interesting concepts that it squanders massively in execution. I also think I hate basically every character.
Also terrible battles and more egregious power level bullshit than any other series ever.
Also why the fucking alien, dude.

>>287344145
Went to shit after they ditched Manta.

>>287344145
Ruined by power scaling and Yoh stopped being the MC.

>>287344145
The ending to the first part were he ends up agreeing with his brother was based.

It had a lot of soul to it and could have been one of the greatest mangas of all time. But it started to fall apart at the half way point, once the focus shifted away from personal character stories, to the plot centred more around the tournament itself. Hao was such a nothing villain that he seemed like the author was trying to emulate Sephiroth through him. Ending was terrible. Failing to stop the big bad, and talk no jutsu friendship being what saved the day.

>>287349593
Why cant aliens be shamans too?

>>287344145
strong start but ending on a tournament was lame. it killed all story building nobody cared about the fodder of the week.the hero had 0 charisma

>>287350145
The story really didn't need a tournament. It felt like that was a mandate given by Jump Magazine to ape other shounens that did the same, and really ruined it.

>>287344505
The manga definitely subverts that at multiple moments thoughbeit

>>287344145
Glad I didn't read it until the kanzenban finished the ending. Not a top-tier series by any means but it was a fun and memorable ride. Sati and Jeanne got done dirty though, they were the ones I wanted to get a solid fight the most...

Recently read the canon sequels on a whim and I'm actually very hyped for the final one to start releasing soon, I respect the balls it takes to write something so completely fucking unhinged.
>Evil team is the Illuminati, constantly referred to as "they", constantly pushing "the plan" and has actual fucking lizard people and a Bill Gates stand-in
>villain is quite literally the god of capitalism
>Amida Nyorai, the irl most famous and popular Buddha in the far east? Illuminati psyop, "All along, Amida Nyorai's true identity is a particularly powerful piece the devil Lucifer's fractured soul" reveal made me spit out my drink in disbelief
>This makes Sati lose faith so fucking hard she sells her soul to the child killing demon Moloch
>muh 5th dimension that transcends all reality
>All previous shaman kings are returning
>heavy implication that Marco's crew will spend much of the tournament trying to get the previous shaman king Jesus Christ on their side
>Asakura "idk man the Illuminati kinda make some good points" Yoh

>>287344145

A huge childhood favourite but looking back it appears to have ripped off Jojo quite heavily but managed to get away with it.

>>287347827

THE WORLD AROUND YOU IS NOT WHAT IT SEEMS

>>287350174
Hard disagree, the tournament itself was solid but the series went to shit when they interrupted it for over 80 chapters for incomprehensible random shenanigans.

>>287344145
Watched the first anime as a kid and loved it. Then again, I was 10 years old and it was a dub so probably heavily censored which probably made some characters more likable. I tried to watch the remake, but I gave up fast because it sucked ass. Never read the manga.

>>287344145
the villain actually wins and he was right. MC agreed with him which pissed everybody off. Definitely not for everyone(a good thing) but I enjoyed it despite the flaws. The oversoul designs are cool if you like mecha too. The original anime has so much soul until they go to america

>>287350492
fuck off sharteen

>>287350556
the problem with sequels is that new main cast is not memorable at all

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>>287344145
Kororo

>>287344145
The old anime from the early 2000s had a better ending than the manga.

>>287347758
>aged like milk.
What worked then that doesn't work now?

>>287344145
pretty based (both versions)

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I'm not a fan of tsunderes, especially abusive ones, but something about Anna activates the neurons

>>287344145
Kind of slow start, is pretty good on the buildup to the shaman fight, then gets completely lost in what it's even trying to do. Endless fights accomplishing nothing. Characters being introduced and killed for nothing. Characters going nowhere in their own stories. The main thing it has going for it is the art and the author even admitted that he was mainly winging it in the latter half and was just drawing what he thought looked cool. And the ending is bad to the extent it retroactively sours my opinions on the earlier good parts knowing it all leads to that crappy ending.

helicopters

>>287344145
>if you can see ghosts that means you're a good guy
Um

>>287344145
I hate that the translations removed Chocolove Lips and we need story time for the sequels

ending is sooo dogshit, i hate hao and the constant glaze the author gave to that awful character

The 2001 anime was good

>>287352720
Anna is a good character

>>287354309
nah, she's too much of a mary sue and Takei is unreasonably attached to her

>>287344145
Should have been a continent hopping battle royale the whole way through because the tournament setup is the weakest part of the story once the shaman fight happens in earnest. But I think The themes and characters are incredibly good when the story is banging away on all cylinders.

>>287344202
fpbp

>>287352720
got pregnant at 14 years old

>>287355011
This

Love it the sequel also

>>287344145
Very enjoyable ride until they reach the Patch Village in America. Then the actual Shaman Fight tourney begins and it was meh all the way to the end, although the Osorezan Revoir flashback was amazing.

Everyone loves to dickride Hao but the story suffered for him being too overpowered for the protags to do anything about. Anna had too little to do. Too many side characters and side trips into their backstories that weren't worth the time and took away from the main characters that I cared about. This last issue carried on into the sequel series and spinoffs. Is it too much to ask for some evil characters to stay evil and not be redeemed or convinced to change their ways?

>>287344145
I remember watching the anime and not liking it

>>287344145
I remember Anna being extremely sex, but that's really it.

>>287360005
Anna was definitely banging Yoh

>>287344145
Tried to watch it, only lasted a couple of episodes. Sorry if there was a great story in there somewhere but something about it was just not to my taste.

>>287352086
>the villain actually wins and he was right. MC agreed with him
That actually sounds amazing, this should be a much more common trope. Villains are usually at least half right anyways. Too bad the rest of the story isn't good I would actually like to see that part.

The introductions of Hao and Jeanne were fantastic, as they showed how ruthless and brutal top tier shamans could be. Then it went to shit halfway through the tournament, it looked like Oh Great! storytelling.
Need a boost? Just kill yourself. Or have your spirit randomly become a god like in the case of chocolove.
Jeanne became a joke, and consequently all her faction. Anna was a continuous fapping session, but she was a terrible character. Yoh had zero charisma. Hao's ending was retarded. I don't even remember what the point of the smoking cat was.

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I remember enjoying the two Castlevania-likes on GBA

>>287344145
Only watched the old anime and played one of the GBA games back in the day, and I don't remember much of it besides that the whole battle system was reinvented like three times through the story.
From the shamans letting ghosts control their bodies, to weapons that are possessed by ghosts, to giant ghost weapons or mechs (last one being around when they also introduced power level scouters ripped straight from dbz). Or something like that. And personally I always thought the first version was the most interesting one.

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>>287361258
>Hurts, doesn't it?

>>287344145
Yoh impregnating Ana at 14 so he doesn't die a virgin against Hao is based.

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>>287361258
Same. I was impressed with how many abilities (spirits) they stuffed in

>>287353686
13 actually

>>287360763
Only in the manga because since they end uo befriending him. The Anima actually ends with them killing him

>>287344145
I really liked the beginning of it but the whole resurrect spam and powerlevel shit near the end was painfully bad

>>287344145
Good premise, neat execution, at least initially. Introducing power levels fucked everything up

>>287349593
Faust and Ryu are both great characters but everyone else is forgettable, I'll grant you

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>>287361967
>Faust and Ryu are both great characters
Well said

I like the sequel better than the original manga after the resurrection spam started. The conflict with the antagonists is more interesting. The only problem is that it takes forever to come out.

>>287344505
You can use most of your spirit power to launch a single attack that can trump an opponent's defenses, but nobody's going to constantly be using their power at that rate on defenses, so unless the power difference is massive, a surprise attack can still kill someone.
The power thing also works in the story's favor, as the team has to collect stronger spirits to have a fighting chance, along with the zenkai boost from entering a near death state or being resurrected.

>>287362367
>along with the zenkai boost from entering a near death state or being resurrected.
This is a terrible idea though because in practice it leads to
>okay everyone has to go through a near-death experience to get a power boost now
and it takes all of the tension out of the story. I distinctly remember a part where Yoh floats the idea of trying to heal his own injuries using his Over Soul and Hao shows up to tell him he's an idiot and it won't work, almost as if Takei realized halfway through writing the chapter that it was a stupid fucking idea but the deadline was in 2 days and he didn't have time to come up with a GOOD idea.

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>comic relief character ends up becoming the strongest protag in the final third of the series
Pretty based desu

>>287362591
He's the strongest in the middle third, when he gets a god soul before everyone gets an elemental spirit god. Then he's benchwarmer-tier again.

>>287363118
I thought it was because he died twice, and the others didn't catch up until the final arc (fighting the Patch - end)?

bump

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>>287362591
>be black
>run fast

>>287362591
This guy looks incredibly racist

>>287365371
How so?

>>287344145
The idea of shamans summoning ghosts to deal with other ghosts or fight each other was neat and could have made a good action-supernatural hybrid.
Instead it went full tournament arc bullshit and went shit.

>>287365523
what else did you expect with a title like shaman KING? they're not gonna crown him by democratic elections

>>287365523
>>287366177
Takei literally meant for it to be solving problems involving ghosts, his editor forced him to go full battle shounen

>>287366355
Based editors saved the manga.

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>>287366388

>>287366388
ruined*

Shaman King was the first manga I read where they did the "dying and returning gives a power boost". Then I watched DBZ and spit out my drink at that scene on Namek where Vegeta tries to get Krillin (I think) to near kill him because he realized that coming back from the brink gives a power boost.

Shaman King though really took it to the extreme, but natural, conclusion and the characters were consciously abusing it.

>>287365401
>nose
>lips
>bellybutton
>name
>the fucking name

>>287367172
How is it racist showing a character with common traits of their race?

>>287367234
Are you playing dumb?

>>287367172
But how does any of that help you judge how racist he is? He was actually pretty chill. Less racist than the Ainu wannabe.

>>287367245
I'm speaking about a subject you have never given any thought to. My common sense reply has dumbfounded you because it popped a bubble you didn't even know you were living inside. It's alright, I'll give you time to process the new world view I've opened for you.

>>287344145
Sll I remember about it was a group of women who were jobbers

>>287367255
He did start out as the generic gangster nigga thug in his origin story. Playing into the negative stereotype of blacks being violent street thugs.

>>287367570
>Sll I remember about it was a group of women who were jobbers
what, Anna is literally like the 2nd/3rd strongest character and her wife the MC has like 1/5th of her spiritual power.

>>287344145
Not only was it the first anime I watched but it was the first show I watched ever. The OG anime and manga will always have a special place in my heart even if it's not perfect

>>287367694
That doesn't make Chocolove a racist, though.
>>287367172
There are millions of people who look like that in real life, and they are just as entitled to representation as you.

>>287367694
>black people create a bunch of pop culture products portraying themselves as violent thugs
>black people then get surprised that countries with extremely tiny black populations get their impressions of them from these products
Maybe they should try to market themselves as something other than thugs if they don't want to be thought of as thugs?

>>287350556
>trying to get the previous shaman king Jesus Christ
as in, the shaman king they are trying to get to is a christ-like figure, or was the literal jesus of nazareth a shaman king?

>>287368058
>>black people create a bunch of pop culture products portraying themselves as violent thugs
alright this is getting off topic but i'll just say part of that push was that black people (early on) weren't actually the ones creating those products, blaxplotation films for example were almost always directed or written by white people, same with early hip hop, which, much like punk music, could be argued to have been "manufactured" by labels because the real version of it was not deemed marketable enough to actually be put on mainstream distribution
of course once that cultural groundwork was set black people did grow up with that type of media and end up seeing it as aspiring which leads to this cycle of them pretending to be "gangsta" when they have no reason to simply because its what they are sold as the black version of coolness growing up, which inevitably leads to future black media playing into those same tropes but i dont think they initially all got together and went "we should invent hip hop to talk about selling drugs"

>>287344505
>manga filled with buddhist symbolism has its mc become stronger by detaching himself from the material world
>this is somehow a bad thing

>>287368131
Literal Jesus Christ. They made it very clear since the beginning that the shaman fight is to find messianic figures to renew human spirituality and connection to the Great Spirit. The interesting thing about the sequel is it explores the previous winner, who was basically a fedora tipper, not a religious figure. They're also trying to get Buddha to support team hao. It really feels like Takei watched a bunch of conspiracy videos on youtube through the early 2010s and thought "yeah I'm going to put that in Shaman King"

>>287361258
>>287361468
It shares a lot of the same staff as the GBA Castlevania games I believe.

>>287366587
Look at what it became after Takei fully bought out the rights and had complete leeway.
The editors were right to wrangle him.

Retroactively ruined by one of the shittiest endings in shonen history.

>>287344145
I remember watching it like 20 years ago but don't remember anything about it

>>287344227
it became jojo with spiky stands on the later arcs. i tried reading Superstar, but i dunno what the fuck is going on.

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>>287365371
He did murder one of God's Chosen, which is an automatic hate crime

>>287369665
speaking of, how did /a/ react to Jeanne's death? i'm actually surprised Takei has the balls to kill off one of the popular characters there

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>>287369727
I was pretty unhappy, but I don't think it even got its own thread. I blame Flowers' sporadic release schedule

I need a manga-only rank of those older late90s/ 2000s era shounen manga from best to worst from people who have read them all
>One Piece
>Bleach
>Naruto
>Rurouni Kenshin
>Shaman King
>Eyeshield 21
>Gash Bell
>Hoshin Engi
>Yu-Gi-Oh!
>D.Gray-Man
>Pandora Hearts
>Soul Eater
>Death Note
>Bakuman
>Medaka Box

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>>287344145
I regret i wasted some bucks to collect the manga, worst buy ever!

>>287370659
So is this guy's personality just being a giga pedo? Either the first anime/dub scrubbed all mentions of it, or I'm having selective amnesia, because that's not how I remembered him at all. Or is he like Leorio and actually the same age as the other kids despite looking 30?

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>>287370781
>So is this guy's personality just being a giga pedo?
A based giga pedo, yes
>Or is he like Leorio and actually the same age as the other kids despite looking 30?
Also yes. He's only 4 years older.
The anime made him an ally earlier (before he got possessed by Tokagero), so they couldn't really include his crush on Anna. As for Tamao and Jeanne I don't remember.

>>287370781
>>287370781
Initially he was the local deliquent leader trope, but not a bad guy, just an outcast searching for his "happy place" or something. Then he swears loyalty to the MC after being saved, and that's kinda cool, actually he knows he isn't in the same leve as the world-saving childrens but he still tries to keep up. But yeah, he's 18 at best, while the cast is 14.
I like his giant-mecha-spirit design, bikes are cool.

>Or is he like Leorio and actually the same age as the other kids despite looking 30?
Wtf, I didn't knew that

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>>287363118
Not that actually change that much, but in a series where power level numbers matters in plot, it's a pretty bold thing to the MC and his Sasuke being the weakest.

>>287370860
>giga pedo
I wouldnt call a 4 year gap 'giga pedo' and whatever filler was shoved in the '01 anime to show that isnt his real character. Really its easier to believe he's gay considering how much of a confused boner he gets looking at Lyserg.

>crush on Anna
never happened. He did try to kiss Tamao though who was 12 att.

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>>287371421
>whatever filler was shoved in the '01 anime to show that isnt his real character
Other way around. Loving little girls (even Kokoro) is a running gag in the manga.
>crush on Anna
>never happened
The despair of getting rejected by Anna is what allowed Tokageroh to possess him.

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Jeanne sexo

>>287372160
God she is so cute, a shame how she gets pushed to the background

>>287367981
he's talking about the female trio

>>287352630
characters are unable to keep a power gimmick and need to reinvent the wheel each new fight as if each new over soul only exists to advertise new toys.

>>287352086
Hao was wrong about most things and that's why he's getting screwed over in the sequel.

>>287344145
Really cool spirit designs, love Amidamaru, the buddhist spirits, the angels, and the elementals. Story is just okay, the sequel and spin-off are meh.

>>287359487
>but the story suffered for him being too overpowered for the protags to do anything about.
I think this is mostly because the story became a series of set fights and nobody likes a tournament arc where there's one clear winner with no contest. I think the story would have worked better had it stuck to a different format where Hao doesn't automatically represent an inevitability, like making the bulk of the shaman fights a battle royale across North America and then paring things down when people reach the patch village.

As short as it is, the trek across America was nothing but good character moments for the cast and that could have been expanded to dealing with Hao's subordinates, the X-laws, and other shamans as the main cast get closer to the patch village. All while making Hao some kind of looming spectre that is either just behind them mopping up loose ends, or ultimately someone that's already made it to the village and is just waiting for everyone else to arrive for a final confrontation. That way Hao doesn't have to always be there posturing and the story might even allow other factions to be more relevant for periods of time as the cast enter their "zone" and have to fight their way out.

IDK, I just really think the story got to the Patch village way too quickly and not a whole lot good came from locking everyone into a single location right afterwards.

>>287361258
I have the PS2 fighting/Strategy game for SK and it's also surprisingly fun. I think that was the last era where licensed titles could turn out well.

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>>287373203
Ah true. Orochi bike was cool as hell but I don't remember seeing it more than once or twice.

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>>287373297
>nobody likes a tournament arc where there's one clear winner with no contest.
>finals in Atlantis
Wow cool
>"We all surrender, Hao's too strong"
Oh

>>287373513
Ryu uses it again in the last arc after he realizes that his sushi knife oversoul is shit, kek

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>>287373277
Only now I noticed that the archangels are literally transformers

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>>287344145
Only watched the remake, and it was mediocre. Rushed to death, animation is stiff and the last arc against the native americans was pretty boring, and they kept bringing back dead characters, so any stakes present were for nothing at the end. Show pretty much peaked at the Iron Maiden Jeanne vs team Egypt fight, was the only time I felt some hype for the show.

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>>287373862

>>287350556
Illuminati is right about Hao being a terrible Shaman King who needs to be replaced.

They're wrong about everything else, especially their leader resuming his position as Shaman King.

>>287373513
He used it a lot in the 2001 anime

>>287373862
Why are they so powerful again? Because the X Laws really, really love their cars?

>>287349924
watch the original anime

>>287373862
Cool as fuck revelation, IMO

>>287344145

Manga was mid and rushed and the new adaptation is similarly mediocre but the 2001 version was quite good. Pacing, art design, tone, music and cinematography are above the new version.

It´s not perfect though. Could have used the whole Masamune thing and Anna´s character development since the ending was kind of generic and left things somewhat unresolved but so much of the late source material just sucks. The death and resurrection stuff is shit, Yoh´s party dropping their guardian spirits in favor of the great spirits sucks, the refined over souls are meh, the fights against the patch tribe guardians are rushed so there is essentially no character development to them and Hao supporters, whom had been developed are left on the sidelines, Hao smaller over soul is also shit, fighting off the Oyamada fleet is shit too, Marco´s backstory as a car salesman and the alien thing almost feel like jokes...

So much of it sucks that the mid finale of 2001 doesn´t feel all that bad even if Hao meeting his mother is a better more plausible resolution than just leveling up. The lead up is just shit...

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>>287375218
>the fights against the patch tribe guardians
Always found it hilarious how a group that lost a member to an incredibly weak Ren is suddenly presented as an endgame challenge