Why does every mangaka's art invariably deteriorate
>>287501662They get older
>>287501689Most of the best artists produced their best work in late age
>>287501662if you think this shit ever looked good you need your eyes checked
please dont evade my one piss filters i don't want to see this shit
>>287501662all my favorite mangaka are just as good as they've always been, have you tried reading more than Jump?
>>287501662>>287501698American artists in comics tend to get better over the years but manga the other way around imo.
>>287501662serialization means you have to optimize for the grind
>>287501662But right looks better?
>>287501662>retard sees a One Piece thread that isn't shitting on Oda or One Piece itself, but rather Toei >>287496614>tries to derail the thread but fails>>287496904>>287501216>gets mad as hell and proceeds to create a thread shitting on OdaWhy are you like this? I can't think of a more deranged person on this entire board than you.
>>287502010Manga version of this?
>>287501662have you tried not reading battle shonenslop
>>287502010I mean, not always
>>287502181...this is supposed to be an example of improvement?
>>287502181The last two are pure slop. Nu-cape >There's one big panel with no paneling or choreography where my cape uhh looks cool. No plot. Just my character looks cool. Yes, it's pricey because of the colors. Plz buy.It's approaching Webtoon territory of bad. If not already there.
>>287501662Weekly schedule forced them to optimize for efficiency
Mangaka for this feel?
>>287502181Western comics are so fucking ugly, holy shit
>>287502433Lost a lot of soul
>>287503791Actually, both panels are from the same chapter. It's just that the bottom part of the pages is set in the past, and the mangaka is imitating his art style from 20 years ago
>>287502433>>287503995That's less "detoriation" and more "looks off because you're so used to the newer designs".
>>287503731>inevitable progression of the mind of a furry
>>287503057If OP weren't a deranged retard making threads out of spite, he might understand this. I mean, there are plenty of valid criticisms you can make about Oda, but complaining how his art is “getting worse” is the most stupid and petty criticism you could possibly level at him. The guy has been dropping weekly chapters since 1997, when others like Kubo or Toriyama would have preferred to kill themselves rather than keep working on a weekly manga, when they had less than half the chapters Oda has under his belt. Don’t get me wrong, 500–600 weekly chapters is quite an impressive feat, it’s just that braindead morons like don’t realize how hard it is to keep doing this shit for so long.I personally don't think Oda has become a worse artist; I'd even say his artstyle has improved, but I understand those who prefer his artstyle from the early arcs. The passing of years and decades has obviously taken its toll on the weekly chapters, which is quite natural. I think that if One Piece were a monthly manga, we’d have chapters of equal or even better quality than those from 700–800 chapters ago.
>>287503731This niqqa got Incapilled
>>287503035>Nu-capeAs if that's not been the meta of hack artists since like, '89? Liefeld spent his entire time at Image doing that- specifically group shoots of characters saying their names in a big font- and it wasn't even fresh then.
>>287501662deadlines
>>287507266What a stupid cocksucking postI love One Piece, I've watched it since it aired on German TV when I was a kid, I read the manga front to back like 3 times, and I can safely say with no cope that Oda's art has deteriorated as fuckAll you need is the Akainu comparison image to prove you wrong
>>287501662Brutal work schedule inevitably leads to degeneration, and more often just delegating more and more to less talented assistants.
>>287507765>I love One Piece>that’s why I seethe with rage when people rightfully criticize the anime, because that means that person has a minimal appreciation for the original work>that’s why I seethe with rage when someone gives even the slightest credit to the guy who’s kept it afloat for almost 30 yearsYou sure love it, lol. What a miserable, deranged faggot you are.
>>287507765i think his composition has gotten worse, which in turn has made his art worse. he draws "more" in the sense of cluttering the pages and compromising the quality of each panel, but when it comes to cover spreads his art doesn't seem as bad as people make it out to be
>>287504257He said the art improved, not deteriorated, you illiterate mong.
>>287507463It's because they were making tons of money selling the original art for their pages and big pin ups and splash pages sold the best so they just started making whole books of nothing but that. Read like shit but no one bought a Liefeld book for the writing.
>>287504257The newer art in that first picture is objectively better the dude on the left looks like he was photoshopped into the scene on the top but on the bottom he’s properly angled and proportioned
>>287502433akimoto is simply built different
>>287501689but old good new bad
>>287508268The weekly chapters are clearly drawn in a more rushed manner, resulting in a more scribbled artwork and a greater sense of clutter. You could say the manga looks worse now, which is valid, but I think it’s more a result of a weekly manga running for too long than Oda becoming a worse artist. The way his character designs have evolved is proof of that.
>>287502010Probably because most JP mangaka spend 200 hours a week drawing from age 20 to 40Age 40 seems like the wall for most weekly mangaka and they have to start taking breaks and slowing output
>>287508813One can only imagine what sort of problems drawing weekly for decades does to your wrist after all.
>>287507463I think they call it Golden Age. That was the last time I saw a page with separate panels.
>>287501698Slow down with all those citations. We cant keep up
>>287501662
5
w
>>287501709/thread
>>287501709There are some clear tradeoffs between the two.
>>287511187>>287511263Fuck off you faggot
>>287502010unless it's the artists unique property, american comic artists tend to get rotated out, sometimes on a monthly basis. so they're always doing new projects and refining their range of technique but also always having to get their bearings
>>287511263>>287501709you two are more blind than oda and 80 times as retarded
>>287501662different assistant throughout the years
>>287508322>no one bought a Liefeld book for the writing.Wait...You're implying you buy those things unironically, e.g. "for the "art""? Lmao. Disgusting. That's the reason comics suck so much. I'd understand Murataslop over this.
>>287501662Not only mangaka, LN illustrators too>>287502010Bullshit, Land or Romita Jr only got worse over years.
>>287501709>giant hands
One Piece art has always been trash.
Someone post kitazume so I don't have to look at how new art. Even cda is better than define
>>287512980Right has more sovl
>>287503731Nishioka Kyoudai
>>287508178Yes, I actually do love One Piece. Which is why I criticize things about it that aren't good. Because someone who loves something wants it to be the best version of itself. You're a fair weather faggot without a critical bone in his body, "lol". You're the lowest rung of jap media consumer. "I'd even say his artstyle has improved." What an absolutely retarded, coping post. If I asked you to provide examples you'd probably close the thread in shame and pretend it doesn't exist instead of providing any.
>>287501662ah... Romance Dawn...
>>287501662> deteriorate Your not a artists you can't see his art improve a lot.
>>287501709He a lot better at drawing hands.
>>287501662nu-OP looks so fucking bad.I cant believe what they did to my once favorite manga and anime>>287501709>>287514347His craft improved but his artstyle got 100x worse
>>287514389> His craft improved but his artstyle got 100x worse True but most artist have that problem with the art style getting worse or completely changing over time.
>>287514420no allBased Kubo improved at everything
>>287512980Land is Land. Romita Jr is just tired and the colorists keep getting worse.
>>287514516While technically improved it's also lost the unique angular style which had charm. It wasn't even Kubo's decision. He changed the designs to match Pierrot's when the anime began production.
>>287512980>>287514551
>>287501709>>287501662Oda's artstyle seems very lenient for managing to keep the series weekly for so long. I'm not an artist so I don't know if this is true or not but I figure you can probably draw faster when you don't have to worry about trying to do perfect anatomy
>>287514764>He changed the designs to match Pierrot's when the anime began productionDidn't know that. Was a good decision
>>287514764Gotta change with the times. Early Ichigo looked like a yankee. Also that Orihime looks disabled.
>>287514921Probably easier for reproduction both for peripheral media but also his assistants. Same with Naruto.
>>287502181comics truly are a worthless medium
>>287514964Never read the Naruto manga but if its similar to the anime it was a terrible decision
>>287515012It doesn't matter how much the art improves, the whiskers will always make it look bad.
>>287514516Rukia looks kinda bad in both versions. Her anime version is unironically better than both.
>>287501662There is counter-exemples. Go Nagai art improved along the decades. He has perfected his style. He his old as fucks and has never stopped, in fact it's like aging only made him more powerful than ever.
>>287511486Yes, yes (you) are.
>>287515129>made him more powerful than ever.Made him hornier than ever.
>>287501709ai?
>>287513714
>>287502181Probably Ikegami?
>>287515129Gee it only took him 50 years
>>287502662Tight schedules and drawing the same charactrrs over and over probably wars them down.
>>287503731Remainder this paintings aren't in chronological order.
>>287507266But Oda's art has deteriorated in a weirdly inefficient way. He's genuinely drawing more stuff and drawing it worse, and he got worse at composition too.
>>287515907I like 1990 more than 2016
>>287503765>>287514967Why do seas hate anything non-Japanese?
>>287522367I don't need to be a SEA to see how garbage your comics are, /co/ckroach.
>>287523307I'm not even on /co/ but I don't understand what's so bad about those comic pictures anon posted, they look fine.
>>287514516Soul soullessAnd he ran out of gas after SS arc>>287514764>He changed the designs to match Pierrot's when the anime began production.FalseEarly Anime was fairly similar to Kubo's styleKubo mentioned he was influenced by the anime's character designer though
>>287524911>Kubo mentioned he was influenced by the anime's character designer thoughWhat do you think that means nigger?
>>287514389try looking at the paper version for once, and you'll get it.
Let's all get along
>>287515012Right looks generic. Left is recognizable and has soul.
>>287501662so is there any actual insightful criticism of the new one beyond "busty women bad"?>>287515129no it got stiffer most of the time outside of stand-out panels, his inking got more conservative and his really good sense of contrast went away. his older aesthetics made for more iconic drawings. ken ishikawa did a better job improving technically while maintaining dynamism and iconic compositions
>>287526657Worse shading and colouring, worse facial anatomy, and the lineart is all fucked. All of Oda's modern issues trace back to the fact that his hands aren't steady any more, which results in noticeably thicker and more scraggly lines.
>>287527216>Worse shading might be the most valid but I could also say it's a different light source>worse facial anatomyhow? both are pretty nonsense in traditional "correctness" terms. her face looks like it's oriented downward a bit more in the right drawing.>and the lineart is all fuckednot sure if this is an issue of his hand fucking up; this dude is friends with Taiyo Matsumoto so maybe he just likes scraggly lines as a stylization choice.
>>287527405>both are pretty nonsense in traditional "correctness" termsBoth are obviously cartoonish but the right has a pretty asymmetrical look to the face between the mouth positioning and the weird jaw shape. Left looks like a continuous curve behind the hand but right looks like the two sides of her face aren't drawn the same way. And despite being a similar pose, right is weirdly more front facing in its orientation, which makes the leg pose make less sense and is also a sign the author isn't confident trying a pose that requires more effort.>maybe he just likes scraggly lines as a stylization choiceI doubt it. Most of his current work has this chicken scratch quality to it when it gets bad, but the stuff her puts effort and time in lacks it.
>>287501698Like?
>>287501662What's up with the lipstick on the right? It looks deformed
>>287501698A mangaka and a painter are two very different things
>>287526657It looks like he finally got a handle over notan and values, actually.
>>287508178You are 14-25 and new to 4chan LOL
>>287522367Manga paneling is simply easier on the eyes and makes more sense. Comics largely feel basquiat with how the forms change every page despite being the same character or object.
>>287528326American comics created the six panel grid and newspaper strips, those are the easiest comics in the world to read, what are you on about?
>>287528276Same thing that's up with the necklace or the chain on her shoulder. Oda only draws the idea of something and not the actual thing.
>>287528326Good panelling is good panelling and bad composition is bad composition, regardless of whether it's manga or comics. I could find you manga pages with shit composition.
>>287514516kubo is the worst example you can think of. the early volumes of bleach btfo the later in art quality. ichigo loses his entire character design and turns into lame big chin stoic man
>>287504257anon got you, scrub. Acept defeat
>>287528353>>287528444I'll be more descriptive, manga exceeds comics in areas that largely involve fight scenes and conveying a lot of information with just a few images. Due to the fact manga is largely black and white, there are less distractions and less chances of confusing the reader as opposed to the comic artist who must choose the right palette. Yes, some manga pages might benefit if you knew the exact color the author intended but it's largely more detrimental in the case of comics. In regards to fight scenes is the usage of speed lines, and impact bursts all are better used in manga.Comics on the other hand try to convey so much information on a single page. At least a manga might devote two or three pages of its 17 page chapter to nothing but fight choreography and grunts or sfx. Comics also don't know how to use speed lines the same way the east does.Pic related has single body shot panels with either Goku or Frieza and you can just feel that both characters have enough room to breathe. The facial expressions are all in character and not bizarre for the sake of effect(unlike comics which insults its readers intelligence by assuming they cannot read facial cues all that well.)
Look at these facial expressions. This is Batman #466, which came out around the same time Toriyama was drawing Goku vs Frieza.The best of the West vs the The best of the East
>>287528710DBZ. Notice the consistency throughout the pages I post
>>287528740Batman, same issue that was released during late stage namek saga
>>287528668None of these issues are inherent to the medium though. You're just complaining about things bad authors do.
>>287528777Would a comic ever devote one page to such a simple clash? Would the industry allow it?
>>287528840>>287528777Mr troffler is shown here again, what a variety in facial expressions.
Comics and manga are the same thing.
The opening page.
>>287528902
>>287528710>literally one of the greatest mangaka of all time in terms of composition Vs random capeshit slop arc nobody cared aboutOh so you're just retarded, got it. But if you want to talk art, this is from '87. Standard composition, sure, but your own examples are deeply disingenuous.
Manga artists will create special facial expressions that they can use as a template and also send a visual cue that trains the reader to connect the symbol with a certain emotion whenever they see it regardless of the chapter.
>>287501662Age
post the soul eater one
>>287529079Some age more gracefully than others.
>>287515700Thanks anon. I hate this fucking faggot. I'm so incredibly disappointed he thinks this is good
>>287529091
>>287529041The artist is asking me to strain my eyes.
>>287514389I know this is you, OP, samefagging like the cowardly rat that you are, but I genuinely want to know: what do you actually miss about Oda’s old artstyle beyond the cleaner lineart? Do you prefer the more cartoonish proportions? The more carefree designs? Do you have any real criticism in your rotten shitposter brain?
>>287528183I suspect this might be a significant part of why you're taking issue with the jaw, which I guess is part of the "looser" or "worse" (depending on your view) inking. the flatter torso is admittedly a very good observation and definitely something that would be easier to draw fast/the kinda shit I'd have done to be lazy, but I'm still not totally convinced; I really need to catch up with modern One Piece and make up my mind, since on one hand I think there's been a trend of dunking on OP of late thanks to its huge mainstreaming yet on the other hand maybe there are totally valid observations I'd end up agreeing with if I read all the recent stuff.>>287515700I honestly never loved Kitazume aesthetics in their "golden age" either. I don't dislike them and in something else I wouldn't really want to say anything bad about them, but after 0079's Yasuhiko people they definitely feel way stiffer, less varied and less unique.
>>287529544Honestly a lot of his contemporary art gives me an ick I'm not versed enough to articulate properly just on a visual level, but the composition has definitely gotten worse, as has the exposition. Characters basedfacing around a spread has become a meme for a reason, and he just stuffs panels with a lot more balloons than he used to. I think he's kind of Flanderising his own worst traits because OP is too huge for editors to slap him about it.
>>287529217It works better in print, the bright colours stand out less and the bigger format helps. It's probably not even close to the best page, I just grabbed a random no dialogue one. That said Gibbons's strength in it is mostly in his stills or occasionally in the alternating between panels, while the composition and action flow are merely alright. The big draw is the writing, but I think that just furthers the point.
>>287511716It looks like shit it doesn't look like a humans hand and you can see better drawn hands in early one piece too so its not even a case of creator vision its him fucking up
>>287501662unpopular opinion, but i like scribble oda. what got really worse is his paneling and how every page is now wordswordswords. and i'm talking about unecessary wordswordswords, every character must going on with some stupid shit like they just cant keep their mouth closed for a split second.
>>287530123>Characters basedfacing around a spread has become a meme for a reasonOnly for braindead shitposters like you, OP, who deeply hate One Piece for not being a Naruto or Bleach type of manga, but want to pretend you only hate the post-time skip part for some retarded reason. Anyone who’s actually read the One Piece manga knows that hordes of characters reacting to shit has been a constant since the early arcs.
>>287530123>gives me an ick>basedfacingbizarre combo
>>287529056this is amazing lol. say all you want about oda the artist, but oda the cartoonist is the real deal
>>287514516orihime looks better in the later design but ichigo definitely looks worse
>>287507765>Akainu comparison imagepost it
>>287515073>Rukia looks kinda bad in both versions. Her anime version is unironically better Pierrot helped both Kubo and Kishimoto improve their art. The art in the Naruto anime became significantly worse in Shippuden, but it was far superior to the manga in the first part, and Kishimoto took note of that. Toei keeps butchering Oda's art to this day, and people still believe that all the characters in One Piece look bad because of them.
>>287508178I don't do any of that you retarded nigger. I've read One Piece since before your faggot zoomer ass was born. Kill yourself.
>>287501709>anon hates bones and is probably scared of skeletons
>>287530279I read up until around Fishman Island and while it's a fantastic series I do think the way he handles borderline-copypaste "funny tsukkomi reaction faces" is really robotic and lame and maybe the most overt flaw of the series.
>>287501698those artists propably didn't have to shit out several pages of stuff every week for decades
>>287530279>Anyone who’s actually read the One Piece manga knows that hordes of characters reacting to shit has been a constant since the early arcs.Yes, even Ace's death scene is spoiled by having characters basedpogging on the side for no reason. I think it was at its worst in Wano because there were so many characters.
>>287529544Well the thing is that in zeta he outright says he tries to keep it close to yasuhiko's design at the beginning in one of my interview books but you can see over zeta how he changes it to his own style. But after leaving sunrise and his studio failing he ends up going to digital and his style tumbles down. He draws quite nicely but I'll never forgive him for making quattro and kamille ugly. He knows how to draw them properly but stuck with such a shit style
Ill never not choose to hate on kitazume for his current style because I've never been so disappointed in an artist. He's the epitome of this thread. He knows how to do good paneling, he knows how to make dynamic scenes but instead he chooses to be a faggot and draw a train wreck I still read every volume of just to fuel my hate of him more
>>287501689You're really fucking dumb. "Art gets worse" is not a part of the aging process, and certainly not by 51.
>>287532609it is if you get arthritis
>>287532549>Yes, even Ace's death scene is spoiled by having characters basedpogging on the side for no reasonto be fair, that already happened several times in the arc because there were at least two fakeout deaths for ace. also the name of the chapter is literalle "the death of Portgas D. Ace" lol
>>287532549
>>287532549I think his caricatured expressions for drama are good. For comedy, especially when it's a tsukkomi reaction, not so much.>>287532566>in zeta he outright says he tries to keep it close to yasuhiko's designHis aesthetic sense must be pretty fundamentally difference since it didn't feel truly Yasuhiko-like to me at any point. But then stuff like gesture is also part of what makes stuff "Yasuhiko-like" to me, not just designs.
>>287501662Haven't you paid attention. In One Piece, the stronger you are the bigger you are. This is why Blackbeard and Whitebeard are like 9ft tall
>>287532644Yeah no, using cartoony expressions for dramatic scenes is really good & just taking advantage of the medium. Internet nerds who want to look knowledgeable while being total dummies say "it looks stupid, it doesn't work" etc and yet OP is the most popular comic book.
>>287532609>lose your eyesight to astigmatism>lose your dexterity to arhtritis/goutThese happened to Oda
>>287524193Don't bother, third world anti-humans are incapable of reason
>>287532688that's more on poor self-healthcare than age
Left is oda putting his heart and soul into his workRight is him getting worn down and burned out after dealing with the weekly schedule after a decade
>>287514516The only one that improved was Orihime, since the less angular look lends to what a doujin-ready titcow she is.
>>287532676>popular = goodyou're stupid
>>287532609Yes it is. You don't know anything.
>>287531691By Pierrot you really mean specific designers like Tetsuya Nishio, who Kishimoto handpicked and was a fanboy of for years since he was a teenager. Why speak in vague terms?
>>287503731Hoshino KatsuraUnironically
That's not always the case. Some mangaka improve by leaps and bounds over the course of their careers.
>>287537102left is better only because i hate moe syndrome
>>287501662What am I missing here? Clearly the character has changed her fashion sense, but right looks like the artist matured and improved.
>>287537376Left looks like a character eager for adventure, right looks like any anime slut
>>287537416If you don't like how the character has aged and changed that's a separate matter. Nothing to do with the mangaka's art deteriorating.
>>287537303early R+V art, is actually way more moe
Usogui was weekly and maintained a superb bar of quality starting at the L file arc. Batuque did fall short but pulled through and genikasuri is phenomenal. Sako toshio also maintains a physical regimen and does fights
>>287501662Oda said he started drawing women with the shapeoo X Oto save time. Don't know why he changed the face though
>>287528326>Manga paneling is simply easier on the eyes and makes more sense.Manga paneling is for the most part old school western comic paneling
>>287528668Toriyama is cherrypicking, most manga aren't even close to that kind of flowAnd part of the reason why Toriyama's paneling is good is because it follows the same western tradition that Tezuka evolved being inspired by Carl Barks and other western comic artistshttps://www.tcj.com/tezuka-osamu-outwits-the-phantom-blot-the-case-of-new-treasure-island-contd/4/Shin Takarajima was basically a copy of Mickey Mouse Phantom BlotYou don't know enough about American comics and assume that they were always trashy capeshitThey weren'tGo look at Winsor McCay comics, Go look at Carl Barks, Go look at Floyd GottfredsonBtw I said American since French comics weren't ruined by capeshit kikes and thus Mobius inspired Katsuhiro Otomo and a lot of other mangaka out there
>>287501662looks like a candle or a dog's penis
>>287528668Also, color isn't the problem, it actually makes shit more easily readable(though doing color really well is really complex and that's a art in itself)The disadvantage with color is that it adds more work, when with black and white you could have more contentPicrel btw Carl BarksYou can clearly follow the action
>>287531691>Pierrot helped both Kubolol>and Kishimoto improve their art.LMAOKishi's art became so lame and flat in part 2I dunno if that's the fault of the anime thoughThe anime definitely made Konohagakure look a lot lamer than it did in the manga early on
>>287531691>The art in the Naruto anime became significantly worse in Shippuden, but it was far superior to the manga in the first partThis is insane bait
>>287537102He didn't improveHis style just changed
>>287515907I don't want to be rude, but thanks to old anime magazine i mistake him with someone else, and i thought he was dead in early 2000s. So when i saw his new manga in mangadex, i was surprised. I thought Ikegami has passed away few years ago.
>>287501662Line and colouring of the left with anatomy and fundamentals of the right but keep left's face.
>>287526516anon what the fuck are you talking about
>>287543915Right looks generic. Left is recognizable and has soul.
>>287540536Was it really necessary to shove antisemitism into your post?
>>287544781i dont understand
