>have a very promising gambling manga with a cult following>famous for its huge variety of games, like rock paper scissors>halfway through decide to make it entirely about mahong >the author already has like 2 other pure mahjong mangasI'll never forgive what fkmt did to kaiji. It was my favorite manga at some point. Mahjong is not true battle of wits, every game is solved by the mc drawing the right tile at the right moment, or the classic "haha I misled him into thinking I was going for a different hand LOL" which is the entire point of mahong, fuck that shit
>mahjong is not true battle of witsyou've never played mahjong in your life have you?let me guess, poker isn't a battle of wits either.
Wait a sec that specific gamble and winning it had nothing to do with drawing the right tile or whatever.
>>287540548It is battle of wits, but it is forced battle of wits, if that makes sense. Misleading your opponent is the entire point of the game. It is not fun to watch characters play mahjong for 100+ chapters. I could play dominoes with my grandparents and make it sound exciting through sufficient narration, but that's lame. To me the pinnacle of battle of wits is when you take mundane situations/games and make them seem to have way more depth than they were supposed to have.
>>287540596>mahjong>not about drawing tiles
>>287541010>forced battle of wits
>>287541010Unless you sincerely think you could write a compelling, original dominoes match reminiscent of a Fukumoto manga, you have no point here.If you do believe that you're just a delusional retard.
>>287541010do you mean that e.g. jankenpon isn't normally about deception, so FKMT added a twist to it whereas mahjong is always about deception and therefore mindgames is playing it straight?I guess I can see italthough I'm not convinced there's that much of a differenceif you said that jankenpon has simpler rules and therefore mindgames are easier to understand, then I would agree moremahjong is already wizard bullshit to 99% of the audience, so being told somebody did something clever doesn't really change anything for the viewer I didn't get as far as mahjong with Kaiji
>mahjonglet op got filtered many such cases.
>>287540476How retarded are you? Kaiji Part 3 is pretty much the deepest Kaiji ever gets when it comes to mindgame and tactics. It's the only game that truly allow for that. It runs circles around RPS or Ecard.
17 steps is the best arc of Kaiji and it being mahjong vs any other random game is completely irrelevant. They had to change the rules entirely to make it interesting, and it relies on an absurd amount of cheating (like most FKMT mahjong manga and Kaiji arcs in general), so crying about it makes no sense. I understand not liking mahjong, but Kaiji hardly turns into a mahjong anime during this arc.>Mahjong is not true battle of witsYes this is true even if others will deny it. There is an aspect of mindgames and reading discards but just like poker, mahjong comes down to luck first and foremost and you can lose even if you play perfectly. This is brought up in basically every FKMT manga as well.every game is solved by the mc drawing the right tile at the right moment>every game is solved by the mc drawing the right tile at the right momentNo the games are solved by one of the characters cheating or, in the case of Akagi, Akagi mindfucking the other guy so badly they fuckup.
I love minefield
>>287540476you must have only played Online Mahjongin real life mahjong, bluffing and reading your opponent are important skills
>>287543769This is Minefield Mahjong anyway, which comes with a pretty insane layer of mindgame on its own and even more with the Miyoshi-Maeda shenanigans. Currently rereading Kaiji picking up on the prez' 1-4m hidden wait, it's really nice.
GAMBURU
Muraoka will make a glorious return in part 7.
I love Minefield Mahjong, but I can't help but wondering how UNO would have played out.
>>287540476I thought Minefield was only one arc, are there other Mahjong arcs after that?
>>287544035Muraoka will return in Gamblers Endgame.
>>287544370in Kaiji? only minefield so far. mahjong is briefly brought up in a flashback during part 5, where Kaiji muses about that one time he tried to cheat his friends
I like how the 2021 storytime made everyone retroactively like part 4.
I also feel like making Kaiji about mahjong, or any other traditional game, is missing the point. They are just playing mahjong. The fact it is a custom ruleset does not making it more appealing. The only saving grace is the cheating, I guess, but then again, he could have created a more original game.This is why Liar Game will always be superior to Kaiji. They have some real battle of wits/braincrack games.
oh it's the braincrack retard, oh well, time to leave the thread
>the braincrack retard is here
>>287544540>>287544549wait he's famous?
>>287544563been trying to force this "braincrack" anime genre meme for a while and overall has some pretty stupid takes even if appreciating Liar Game is always a good thing
>>287544438I always liked part 4. Wish I was around for the story time though.
>>287544586and what is braincrack supposed to be? just battle of wits?
>>287544613Yeah, instead of saying "psychological" or "mindgames". I don't even care about using "braincrack" instead of these words even if I think it's kinda stupid, but it's the arrogance.
>>287544613>>287544637>is it just battle of wits?No.The battle of wits genre is way wider than you initially think. On one hand, it encompasses Kaiji, Akagi, One Outs and Liar Game. On the other hand, it also encompasses Code Geass, Kakegurui, No Game No Life, Death Parade, and similar manga.There is an obvious distinction between these two, one which is difficult to put into words, but basically mangas like Kaiji or Liar Game are putting a lot of effort into creating dynamic, well written games that the reader can participate into (by guessing what the MC must do to solve it). They don't thrive on hidden information or deus ex machinas, it's a true exercise for the mind. Meanwhile in something like Code Geass or Kakegurui the battle of wits is just an aesthetic, and the plot is moved forward through narrative, plot devices, luck and other variables that are incompatible with a true battle of wits.In order to distinguish one type of manga from the other I suggested that we call the former "braincrack", a proposal that triggered many anons here. For some reason people are passionately averse to having a proper genre for these mangas, and they'd rather keep Code Geass and Kaiji in the same shelf, which only makes it harder for fans to find manga similar to it.
>>287544706this seems reasonable, but if everyone hates this, I'm sure there is a reason for that that I am missing
What do you think of the new golf manga?
>>287544888I like it, I feel bad for the guy but he's a lost cause.But I haven't read any of it for at least half a year or something, when Mangadex purged a lot of manga. Where can I read current manga online nowadays?
>>287544774His threads are annoying and he's a bit forceful with it and I think the name is stupid, that's it. I'm not around him much but any type of consistent multi thread hopping personality has a propensity to be annoying after a while. At least he's not an asshole schizo from what I've seen.
>>287540476>>287542105Minefield mahjong both is not the entirety of the rest of the manga (it's barely even 1/7th of the manga's overall content and one of the shorter parts), and it's also not about drawing tiles.Minefield mahjong is basically nothing like actual mahjong. It's basically just a waiting game where you arrange the most exploitable hand possible, and while mindgames exist, a lot of the game does just come down to cheating, which is what Kaiji is all about. Every Kaiji game is won through some form of cheating or doing the unexpected, and minefield mahjong is won through letting the other side cheat so hard that they lose.
>>287545050To me Kaiji is not about cheating. It is about a game with a simple premise, and it should be RNG, but your opponent is somehow having a stellar performance that should be statistically impossible. So you need to find out how they are cheating, and use that to your advantage. If it was "just" cheating it'd be another Kakegurui.
>>287544774Been forcing the meme way too much, I don't even care about the naming itself.>>287544888Very good and soul crushing so far but I heard we have like 80 non translated chapters so I'm wondering where this goes>>287544953It's on https://cubari.moe/read/gist/cmF3L1llYXJaZXJvLXVwbG9hZGVyL1llYXJaZXJvL21haW4vTmlrYWlkb3VVcGxvYWRzLmpzb24/Probably mangafire or something as well
>>287545138>>287545050I don't really think Kaiji has to be about cheating or not, it's about gambling and it often involves cheating because that makes for compelling narratives but it's not always the case. All of RPS was fair. Minefield has cheating on both sides. It's just more exciting when you have the basic rules (which, in the case of minefield, are complex enough to give you tons of mindgames) but also trying to find the holes to break the game.The analogy with Kakegurui is fine but the real difference is that Kakegurui doesn't really care to set up actual mindgames, psychology and steps to the gambling or the cheating. It just states things. "Oh hey that character did that 10 hours ago" "Oh she can remember everything btw". It's not compelling.
>>287545138>To me Kaiji is not about cheating.Nearly every arc disagrees.Restricted RPS is entirely about gaming the system and Kaiji only wins by deceiving someone else.The bridge cross was literally not meant to be won. The actual win condition was essentially a joke. Kaiji cheats in E-Card but cutting off his ear to stop someone else from cheating.Kaiji outright cheats in the lottery game and only loses because Hyodo not only knew Kaiji was cheating, but was also cheating himself.The dice game is about outsmarting a cheater.Pachinko is about rigging a rigged game.Minefield mahjong is all about cheating.Kazuya cheats constantly in the friendship game.And One Poker's ending happens when Kaiji figures out how to cheat in a game that seemingly has no way to cheat in it.
>>287545263NTA but>Restricted RPS Completely within the rules of the game>The bridge cross was literally not meant to be won. The actual win condition was essentially a joke. They could win it. I guess it's a bit of a gray area whether you consider the wind door fair or not.Kind of agree with the rest but I wouldn't say it's "about cheating". When it comes to One Poker, for instance, Kaiji doesn't win by cheating, he just legitimately outsmarts Kazuya. Kazuya's cheating definitely happens but he frames it as "just the second layer of a fair battle" (quoting him) because Kaiji also has the same tray on his side of the game. Of course we know Kazuya isn't nearly as fair as he deems himself to be, but anyway it's all the same in that Kaiji doesn't cheat here.
>>287545263Everything you mentioned boils down to outsmarting a cheater.For instance, Kaiji cutting his own ear is not cheating in e-card. The pachinko machine was unwinnable, so rigging it to make it winnable is hardly "cheating", remember that his "cheat" only made victory possible the way it should have been in the first place.The list goes on. In every game Kaiji is using his opponent's cheating against themselves. He also sometimes tries to cheat on his own, but that often backfires.
I got filtered by the fucking mahjong arc. Most boring shit ever. Can I skip it without repercussions? Would I be missing on anything?
>>287545521So Kaiji IS about cheating, far more than any other Fukumoto work.Akagi and Ten for example have a lot of cheating in them (especially at the start of either one), but ultimately they boil down to bluffs and mindgames in a way that Kaiji just isn't. Kaiji games have turnabouts due to cheating. But Akagi's big game against Washizu has no cheating whatsoever.
>>287545584You'd be missing on one of FKMT's best arcs and a pretty important development for Kaiji and his friends. Also a very important antagonist. The beginning is boring I'll give you that, it really picks up around chapter 30 though.
>>287545591It is not about cheating, it is about battle of witsThere is a difference between cheating being a plot device that allows for the battle of wits, and cheating being the ultimate goal/win condition, in a way where the game concludes with the plot going "heh see this clever trick you could pull off in this game to ensure a win? so cool right" as if it was a cheap magician's trick.
What's this entire conversation even about?What does "being about cheating" even mean? A Kaiji game 100% needs to have cheating to be considered a Kaiji game, and if it doesn't then it's bad or not a proper Kaiji game?Kaiji has lots of cheaters, but at its core it's about psychology, gambling and humanity. Not the nature of cheating
>>287545896>100% needs to have cheatingHuman Derby bros... Brave Man's Road bros... Rescue Game bros...
>>287546267>Rescue Game bros...Kazuya cheated a dozen times during that
>>287545896Bridge crossing game had no cheating
>>287546322How do you even cheat in that game? I don't see any way unless you can somehow sneak a jetpack
>>287546267>100% needs to have cheatingI never said that>>287546313Not really. Well, kind of, but not enough to completely be called out, because Kaiji also cheated a little afterwards with his "3!" rampage.Either way I don't think cheating is some main theme of Kaiji even if it happens often. Unlike gambling.
>>287546313Yeah, I was focused on the game participants themselves so that really slipped my mind. But it's not so much as cheating as it is nudging the participants to take a win. Unless we abstract the game as a moral clash between Kaiji and Kazuya (which it is, don't get me twisted) outside of the playing field.
>>287546376>I never said that?????? But you did, I did cut off your qoute but I was still joking about the.>and if it doesn't then it's bad or not a proper Kaiji game?Because these are all GOOD. Brave Man's Road is one of the best games of the series. And they are all proper Kaiji games.
>>287546448God fucking damnit I misread the question mark and fucked up the intonation I'm sorry anon.
>>287546468kek, happens to the best of usanyway forget about Kaiji and read Tonegawa
>>287546499>Read TonegawaMaybe, I watched a couple episodes of the anime half a decade+ ago and was thoroughly amused but soft dropped it for no reason. Say, were you in the Kengan threads for the Fukumoto tournament bracket? I was the one who cooked up the very rough draft with the Rugby blacksuit suggestion. So it would be entertaining if you were, even more if you suggested him.
>>287546617I saw the bracket but never got to actually list some FKMT characters with high feats. I might do it though.
>>287546659Ah sorry anon but that's kinda disappointing. Seems like you're a fucking poser. Whatever. I'm out.
>>287546659He's unrelenting. No shit they need 10 blacksuits to restrain him.
>>287546680Damn.......
>>287546659Kek, well the bracket was filled so that expirement is pretty much over. But seeing some Fukumoto feats is entertaining. Kudo Gai is lightspeed btw.>>287546680Ah don't talk like that! You're making it seem "we" are "me" it's super misleading!
>>287546748Heh
>>287540476The Mahjong was miles better than the button pressing game with the Asian trio.
>>287544540Shroommeister/Conanfag is the braincrack guy
>>287549512Conan is good though
The only thing that's unforgivable is that FKMT has the gal to publish even more manga while he still has like 3 running series that aren't finished.I love Zero and Kaiji and I hate that they're in constant hiatus because FKMT cba to focus on a single thing until it's over.
OKAY BUT WHY IS THE GOLF MANGA BARELY UPDATED WE ARE SO BEHIND THE RAWS!?!?
I liked Kaiji when it was all dumb retard games that made no sense (other than mahjong).
>>287540476>filtered because of mahjong in a manga meant for the japaneseshould've been cornhole or bridge tbqh fampai
>>287553360Finally someone gets itBut hey anon in case you still haven't gotten around to this, read Liar Game. It is everything you loved about Kaiji, except even better. Just trust me on this one. Just get past the first game which is by far the weakest one in the entire manga, from the second game onward it's kino.
>>287546722>barefootwhat a slut.
>>287544888Like I wish there were more TLs to read.
