3.33 was where the rebuilds went wrong. >14 year time skip completely destroyed Shinji's relationships with the rest of the cast.>Rei died for all intents and purposes.>Completely ending any hope of her character being developed further>Asuka and Misato became unrecognizable charicatures of themselves >Done purely to make the audience and Shinji feel bad for liking them to begin with. >Both Asuka and Misato hold the idiot ball by treating Shinji like shit instead of just explaining WTF had happened. >Extreme focus on Shinji's POV left the audience in the dark about literally everything>Never explained in full detail to either Shinji or the audience about how exactly Shinji saving Rei caused the impact. Just that he caused it. Somehow.>Kaworu dies in the most stupid way possible, a pointless sacrifice not a bit as meaningful as it was in NGE.>Never explained exactly how pulling the spears out suddenly became a bad thing>Made Shinji guilty of mass genocide, a crime for which there's no coming back from >No matter what he did in the last movie, it makes any kind of redemption or forgiveness he may get in the next movie hollow and empty.>It leaves Shinji with no way logical or reasonable way out of the hell he's ended up in. >No way to get redeemed, forgiven or atone for what he's done in any way that matters>Just an overwhelmingly depressing, miserable, nihilist movie
>>287630659Can we at least agree 3.33 sucks?
I just remember thinking "I need to remember not to watch these again" when I was finished with them. But now that I'm re-watching the TV series, I'm getting a "maybe I should give the Rebuilds a a second chance" in the back of my mind.
>>287631501The first two are legitimately good. But the third and fourth one killed the rebuilds.
>>287630659i liked the second one a lot but the three was so fucking bad. what was anno thinking?
>>287631752probably "It's so boring doing the same thing again and again, Rebuilds was a bad idea...let's use 3 and 4 to try something new"
>zoomer revisionism thread
>>287631752No wonder he did that short, even he probably got tired of how shit rebuilds were.
>>287631917There's doing something new, and then theres making shinji guilty of literal genocide. You cannot in a million years sell a story about overcoming your problems when your problem is 'I did a holocaust by accident'.
>>287631752There was potential here, you could tell an interesting story around making the main character guilty of what Shinji did. But he didn't have the balls to commit to it in the last movie, and tried to sell us a message of redemption that realistically Shinji would never ever get after what he did.
>>287631999ok, let me rephrase it:"It's so boring doing the same thing again and again and I'm so fucking depressed again, Rebuilds was a bad idea...let's use 3 and 4 to try something new and use my depression as creative writing again, since everything liked it the first time I did that"
>>287632037At least with EOE he committed to the ending where everyone dies, and Shinji lives forever in the hell he's made, and doesn't try to sell redemption after Shinji killed everyone.
>>287630659I remember the hype for 3.0 here was insane back then. The threads about fan theories of what's going to happen with the story were sustained for months prior to release, especially regarding the 2.22 previews for 3.0. The moment the spoilers started coming in, there was an almost palpable sense that the board stopped caring for the movies, and the only reason anons waited 4.0 after that was to just get things over with.
>>2876306591.0 was where they went wrong because they comitted to doing a remake series without any clear idea of what exactly it was supposed to be or why it existed. (outside of the studio and financial reasons) NGE came together despite production issues and shifting around story ideas during the run because it always had an extremely strong thematic & emotional core that informed the rest of it, rebuild lacked that and so it going off the rails was inevitable.
>>287630659Thrice Upon a Time saved 3.0, we just need a 2.5 Film/OVA to fill in the gaps.
>>287632551>Thrice Upon a Time saved 3.0It didn't do nearly enough to fix Shinji's relationships with those he hurt, it didn't bring all the people he killed back to life, it didn't punish Gendo nearly as much as he deserved for ruining his sons life, it made Asuka a total bitch to Shinji for things that weren't even his fault. it didn't flesh out or explain any of Maris backstory. But sure it 'saved' 3.0.
>>287632214yeah, I remember those times before 3.0
>>287632214>nd the only reason anons waited 4.0 after that was to just get things over with.The only way 4.0 could have been saved was by committing to the dark tone they had established in 3.0 and make it the final act of a true tragedy. Shinji gets his revenge on Gendo, but he's doomed to live out the rest of his life alone and abandoned because theres no way to be forgiven for what he did. But no we had to have some half hearted theme of moving on from tragedy and mistakes, when realistically theres no way Shinji could have ever just gotten over what he did. Nobody would ever treat him like a human being ever again.
>>287631501I still watch the Rebuilds every few months. Just take them with a grain of salt. It's a good way to rewatch the series with only 3 hours instead of 15 hours or whatever the series would last.
>>287633216The last two movies don't reflect the original series at all.
>>287630659>>287632214Was there anything Shinji could have done to atone for the horrible things he did that didn't involve him killing himself? Because I really did not see any way out for him after 3.0 that didn't involve a rope.
>>287633216>I still watch the Rebuilds every few months.Why?
>>287632214>I remember the hype for 3.0 here was insane back then.I confeess to being caught up in it, and I was sorely disappointed and made very angry by 3.0 and the final movie.
>>287632663All that setup in the first two movies only for none of it to matter in the last two.
>>287632291I probably would have liked it more if it had just been a remake of the original series with a better animation budget.
>>287631501>"maybe I should give the Rebuilds a a second chanceDon't. You'll be disappointed forever like I was. The last two movies broke my heart. Not in a good way.
>>287631933Revisionism? I was there.
>>287632214>2.22 previewsI fucking hated how 3.0 was nothing like the previews, it could have been so great. I still have not gotten around to watch 4.0
Anno got mad about the original script getting leaked and did a new one from 0. Anyways it has Kaworu, so for me it's a win.
>>287636670What was the original script like?
>>287636641Watch it and share your unfiltered opinions here. I want to see if it frustrates others the way it frustrated me.
>>287630659>14 year time skip completely destroyed Shinji's relationships with the rest of the casThis is what made me angry more than anything else in the rebuilds. Shinji's relationships he spent all that time building up made completely worthless. Asuka hates him, Misato is afraid of him, Touji and Kensuke have outgrown him. Kaji is dead. And the last two movies dedicated no time at all to Shinji actually restoring those broken relationships. He barley got any time to talk to Misato. What was even the point of him trying to reconnect with people and not run away if was all just going to amount to nothing?
>>287631938Rebuild Asuka still didnt end up with Shinji like we wanted.
>>287630659The stuff we saw in the preview after 2.22 was may more interesting than 3.33. Everyone in 3.33 was acting like a retard. For fuck's sake, even if you don't think that's actually Shinji, just act like it, and tell him that they'd be fucked if the got in an Eva again. He would have listened to anyone who'd be nice to him. ANYONE.
>>287630659Realistically speaking was it even slightly possible for Shinji to be redeemed and get a second chance again after what he did in 3.33? He destroyed the world, ruined the lives of everyone around him, objectively made everything for everyone worse, and basically guaranteed his dad would win the war with Wille.
>>287630659Yeah it was really whack, the whole thing ran on these horribly forced contrivances.Fuck I wish the original plan for 3.0 had been used with kaoru and kaji trying to run NERV
>>287631933There's no revisionism. 2.0 was beloved on /a/ and 3.0 was pretty despised
The sheer amount of retarded fagotts defending these shitty movies (especially 3.0) is unbeliveable.Shinji did nothing wrong he was used as a puppet by misato/kaworu/yui/gendo and he gets all the blame, go fuck yourself anno shinji saved the world and got the girl at the end of 2.0, he won.But nooooooooo anno just wiggles his finger in front of the audience and goes "tsk tsk that uhh never happened! Shinji totally caused the third impact and everyone is a retard who believes this, even though they were present when shinji saved the world and when kaworu stopped the eva unit1!"I despise 3.0 for being a retcon of the most interesting thing the franchise did since EOE, a shinji that is no longer a afraid and will fight back is alien to eva, but nope! Shinji entire development gets erased and rei gets killed off.Who the fuck are the willie crew? Why should i ever give a fuck about these losers and their awful cgi ship? So kaworu has the chance to explain everything to shinji but he doesnt and playing the piano is more important? Is kaworu just a fucking retard? So there is no mistery with mary she is just the female kaworu, a fanservice character with no depth but a bunch of fanart that is there to look smug and spout criptic nonsense? So gendo has gone full aizen and any shred of real character is long gone? Seele never mattered? There are 4 fucking adams and we get multiple impacts with multiple spears? Asuka with a shitty chunibyo eye patch and cat ears?What the fuck happened to anno and the staff to shit out this fucking turd?
>>287638065>I despise 3.0 for being a retcon of the most interesting thing the franchise did since EOE, a shinji that is no longer a afraid and will fight back is alien to eva, but nope! Shinji entire development gets erased and rei gets killed off.Glad to see I'm not the only one pissed off and depressed at this.
>>287638065>Shinji did nothing wrong he was used as a puppetFor fuck's sake Misato was literally cheering him on at the end of 2.22, and she has the gal to accuse him of fucking everything up? Bitch move.
>>287630659>>287638065Another element of bad writing in the rebuilds? The people of Village 3 in 3.0+1.0 don't react realistically at all to how everything was built up in the previous movie with everyone blaming Shinji for what happened. If the last surviving village of human beings on the planet had the person who caused the apocalypse that killed their loved ones in their midst? They'd have hung him. After what he did in 3.33 I expected an angry mob to show up at Touji's door demanding he hand him over.
>>287638266Fourteen years of fighting on the losing side of an apocalyptic war changes a person, she probably sees her relationship with Shinji, encouraging him and cheering him on as a mistake that ended with bllions dead. No wonder she put a bomb collar on his neck.
>>287638065At least the soundtrack for 3.0 was pretty good.
>>287631501You're me 2 months ago. Don't do it.
>>287632214I never watched it as it was airing, but I feel like all of that hype was encapsulated in a few brief moments for me after finishing 2.0 and seeing the preview and being super hyped for what could go down next, only for 3.0 to be a total waste of time, doubly so years later when 4.0 finally dropped. Somehow 4.0 is even more pointless than 3.0 and it's only utility is in giving you some comfy small town Japan art with Eva characters running around here and there, the entire final act is total turbogigganigger ass and I legit think less of people who feel as if it was a good end for anything
>>287631752He was bored of remaking stuff, and couldn't content himself with remixing it like he did with 2.0 anyways, but the problem is that Anno has been told for years that him pouring his depressive nature into Eva is what made it good, so he chose to make 3.0 a stupid pointless hateful nihilistic mess. Nobody was there to tell him that all this seems like a dumb idea, so he went for it. It was met with meh reception and it made him too depressed and lazy to make 4.0 for a lot more years to come
>>287638065>I despise 3.0 for being a retcon of the most interesting thing the franchise did since EOE, a shinji that is no longer afraidYeah, it was the most interesting aspect of Rebuild up until then for me.
>>287641567Nice to know I'm not alone.
I can’t help but wonder if the 2011 earthquake had something to do with how 3.0 turned out, given how Anno likes to comment on pretty much anything related to Japanese culture.On a different note, the fact that 3.0 went back to the depressing nature of the original series for me wasn’t the issue. It was more that Anno tried to play up said tone like it was still just as fresh and cool as it was back in the 90s.When the direction that 2.0 had was in fact, far more unique for the series.
>>287642608>I can’t help but wonder if the 2011 earthquake had something to do with how 3.0 turned out,It did.
>>287631698Nah people just tricked themselves into thinking they were good at release in the same way everyone lied to themselves that The Force Awakens was good at release. Because it was all just a soulless retread of the original but put in some mystery boxes to make people go "Oh but the next ones will do something amazing!" Then 3.33/The Last Jedi comes out and it turns out there was no plan. If you go back to 1+2 now you'll see them for what they are, an abridged all style no substance rehash of the first 2/3rds of the series with all the character development removed and a bunch of "setup" for things that don't actually exist.
>>287642608When it comes to Anno's works, Shin Godzilla was inspired by the event. Though I don't really know much about the production aspect of 3.0 to judge if 3/11 really influenced the hard pivot.
And then 3.0 + 1.0 comes out, and all I can think about while watching it was how much Anno was copying The Matrix Revolutions in it.
I still haven't watched the 4th movie.
>>287633879Oh sorry, I should have specified. I watch the first two, then trudge myself through 3.33. I have only ever watched 3.0+1.0 once. I should give it another whirl. The Rei farming scene was comfy, if I remember correctly.>>287634953>Why?I literally just explained it in the post you replied to, anon. Did you just stop reading after the first sentence?
>>287638296She should have put the bomb collar on her own neck then. She cheered the little impressionable faggot along. Told to literally do it FOR HIM. Do it because that's what HE wants.If she is fucking pissed about Near-Third Impact, she should be pissed about herself, not the fucking child in the robot that she's in charge of, both domestically and professionally. She fucked it up on every metric possible.
>>287634061Maybe. If the people from Village-3 fully assigned responsibility on Shinji's behalf, then the only solution for Shinji's situation would be his death. However, if they thought Shinji was being manipulated into doing the stuff that he did by a higher-up or if they didn't know about what he did while being an Eva pilot, then Shinji's situation is more hopeful (which seems to be the case on 3.0+1.0)
>>287630659>>Both Asuka and Misato hold the idiot ball by treating Shinji like shit instead of just explaining WTF had happened.This is my biggest issue with 3.0. I dislike the time slip and the more bleak tone, the latter of those I think fails to capture what made NGE/EoE feel bleak yet hopeful to begin with, but the crux of 3.0 really does fall on Asuka and Misato being too stubborn to give Shinji a rundown on the last 14 years. Anno and his fanboys can cope and say that the audience is supposed to be in Shinji's shoes and not understand what happened, but all it does is make for polarizing media that spits in the face of what came before it. The only good thing to come from 3.0 was Sakura Nagashi.
>>287648966>but the crux of 3.0 really does fall on Asuka and Misato being too stubborn to give Shinji a rundown on the last 14 years.Fucking this. 3.33 falls where the first 20 mins or whatever it was before Shinji fucked off to Nerv because nobody would take 2 goddamn minutes even tell Shinji what the fuck happened at the end of 2.22. He asked. Multiple times. Somebody just tell him what happened. He doesn't remember. But no. Everybody will strap a bomb collar to the little kid and tell him to shut the fuck up and his only way to help anyone has been taken away. Of course the little dude is gonna rebel and say "fuck this place". This is a famous storytelling device. It's called the "Idiot Complex". The character in question just doesn't fucking know what's happening so he does something that, given the actual context and full story, could be considered an idiotic move.
>>287632551The most fun part about the rebuilds is... That it's a 5 movie saga, and khara decides we only get to watch 4 of them because they jumped the ship and decided that the movie directly after 2.0 doesn't matter.>>2876375493.0+1.0 makes very clear that NERV/SEELE/Gendo won the war 14 years ago with their full third impact(not to be confused with the near Third impact), NERV could have wiped out humanity any time they wanted but Gendo needed Misato and her retard WILLE organization to stop the fourth impact so he could take Unit 13 and go to the south pole to do the imaginary impact and clap his wife ass one last time. It's fucking diabolical that Kaji stole the WUNDER to serve as and arc and take what ever it could carrie sl humanity could fuck of to a other planet, it was Misato who ordered finishing the ship as a warship because "My war to save humanity" was more important, even when she knew they already lost.>>287638065The irony is that WILLE develops restrictions for the Eva's, during the 14 years timeskip, that they removed for the final battle so Asuka/Mari can fight at full strenght. Shinji could have triggered the end of the world in Unit 01 every time he fought an angel. It's just in the final battle in 2.0 he meet the right world ending conditions.>>287638277Either A) no one in the village knows who Shinji and Rei Q are. Wich is funny since Rei Q uses a Pilot suit.B) Kensuke and Touji have SO much influence on the village that they just told people to stay quiet and leave the kids alone(wich makes the whole punishment and responsability thing that WILLE tried to fuck Shinji in the ass, just then being assholes in general.)>>287638296Misato always becomes a bitch after Kaji dies, always it's just that know she got pregnant and had a son and bitterly realized she could never be Shinji's mom SO she just fully transitioned to military comander to protect herself, it failed and she lets Shinji be taken, because she can't kill him.
>>287651137The biggest problem with 3.0 is that it really requieres or makes it seem like Shinji to make all of the bad choices to happen. In 1.0 and 2.0 there is a very clear sense of inetability, Shinji's choice of piloting the Eva is just personal, the world keeps moving, the angels will keep coming and humanity will be in danger. Wich is what happened in 2.0 Shinji quits but an angel comes and fucks up NERV in 5 minutes so Shinji returns to Pilot the Eva, he could have decided to not do that and let everyone die. In contrast in 3.0 if Shinji doesn't decide to Pilot Unit 13 the world just stops... Literally, nothing will happen if Shinji doesn't make a choice.Even when Misato has the WUNDER and a full para-military organization to use at no point in the time Shinji stays in NERV we get any indication of WILLE trying to do a counter attack or trying to go there and neutralize the threat while they have the "god killing ship" and 2 Eva's piloted by war veterans. In the perfect environment for their fleet since the NERV in now inside a inverted piramid floating in the air... WILLE just decides to wait until Unit 13 activates to send their two Eva's underground were they can't be supported by the WUNDER to fight Unit 09 and Unit 13 wich both lack the battery limitations of Unit 02 and 08. So Asuka and Mari are pretty much fighting with every known disadvantege. Again all relies on Shinji making the worts possible choices and being mis-informed and isolated(artifically this time because he wanted to help misato when he firts woke up). Shinji's choice to leave with Rei Q and Unit 09 is framed as very important, but then one thinks about it for 5 minutes and realices that Unit 09 could have moved it's hand 2 meters to the left and pick up Shinji and fuck off. Because Rei Q at the end of the day was ordered to take Shinji back to NERV. And Shinji is WILLE's prisoner that misato is not capable of killing because she still has "fealings" for him
>>287630659
>>287648553>However, if they thought Shinji was being manipulated into doing the stuff that he didDoes it even matter if he was manipulated or not when the consequences of his actions are literally billions dead and inevitable human extinction?
>>287651218>That it's a 5 movie saga, and khara decides we only get to watch 4 of themWould people have even gone to see an evangelion movie without Shinji as a main character? Because an installment set between 2.0 and 3.0 would have had Shinji and Rei completely absent from the story.
>>287651218It's pretty clear Seele needed an awakened Eva to finish whatever their original plans for instrumentality were. Sadly we never found out what those original plans were because Gendo killed them off before we could find out, so he could fulfill his plans of reuniting with Yui.
>>287651218>"My war to save humanity" was more important, even when she knew they already lost.Not so much a war to save humanity, as much as a war to make sure Seele and Gendo lose too.
The post not third impact setting of the rebuilds is its most compelling aspect
>steal berserk ost
>>287654885Shame the two movies after the near third impace never really did anything with it.
>>287644968Has Anno even seen the Matrix?
>>287645156I only watched it to get closure and it made me wish I had never gotten emotional invested in the characters at all.
>>287648553Even if he wasn't executed for what he did. He still won't have a happy life to look forward to. He'll forever be known as the biggest loser and biggest fuckup in the history of the human race. Even if he somehow came back to reality after he defeated Gendo, he won't exactly have a happy life to look forward to. The guilt over the dead alone would make it so he'd never have a good nights sleep ever again.
>>287654947That’s on the score composer not the director.
>>287651582That's a very well put criticism post about 3.33, and I we agree. I just have to disagree on a few points.There are consequence in all of the story. If Shinji just sits back and doesn't get in the fucking robot, shit happens. That's a major theme. So hopefully this little dude gets in the giant fucking robot. Let's say he pussies out and have a mental crisis in the cockpit. He's still in there, and Yui will take the wheel and make the robot go berserk. Now, when it comes to Unit 13, things would still happen if he didn't get in the fucking robot. The world might end. But he got in, then made a choice to just go too far. He got into an argument with Kaworu, when Kaworu told him "hey buddy, I don't we should pull this lance..." Everything he did had consequences.But all my stupid criticisms aside: I think we both agree that is suffers from the "Idiot Complex". Sometimes it can be executed well, but this is a glaring example of it. Literally anyone just tell Shinji what happened. It's not a case of miscommunication. Fucking nobody would just be like "well, when you went into Unit-00 to save Rei, it kicked off Near-Third Impact and shit got all fucked up, you went into stasis for 13 years, and the world is all sorts of fucked.". That's all it would need for Shinji to be like "oh fuck, okay, fair enough. My bad, I guess...".
>>287654947Wait what?
>>287659905There's definitely some Berserk influence when it comes to the design of central dogma, with all the bodies merged together into one blood red mass like at the eclipse in berserk.
>>287653674That was like the main appeal of the small trailer at the end of 2.0, plus Kaji, Asuka and Mari needed the screen time also Kaworu being early with his own evangelion was another big plotline>>287654798I wanted to make a counter argument but then i remembered that WILLE was defeated in 5 minutes and when Shinji offered himself to go on a suicide mission to stop Gendo the pink haired bitch and Sakura both tried to shoot him despite the fact the world was already ending by Gendo's hand>>287656496Off screen rebellion and off screen raw sex between Misato and Kaji resulting in Kaji Jr. I will always laugh at the idea that Shinji and Rei were declared KIA the world almost ended and Misato just decided to fuck Kaji until she got pregnant>>287658870I be had this debate before an people just tells me that Shinji would have always piloted unit 13 and be a complete retard causing the events of 3.0. Even if he was properly informed of the situation on the WUNDER, and in the battle in lillith's chamber ambers he would have still gotten the Spears Even thought he was informes by WILLE that Gendo is not to be trusted and NERV Eva's can end the world, and Kaworu (who somehow in this scenary still convinced Shinji to Pilot 13) would no be able to stop him when he tells him something is off. The problem is that the plot depends entirely on Shinji being ignorant and desperate. If Shinji just gets too depressed and decides to be in his NERV room inside NERV then that's it. Gendo can move his plan foward and Kaworu doesn't die. Like i said before the world also just stops because in this case WILLE for some reason never appears on the rest of the movie despite NERV having an apocalipse maiden(Shinji) at their dispossal and only make their move when Unit 13 is activated. I can question myself if Misato's plan was just do nothing hoping Shinji just decides to be in NERV doing nothing. Because the whole movie is about Kaworu seducing Shinji with his plan to fix the world
>>287660866>the pink haired bitch and Sakura both tried to shoot him despite the fact the world was already ending by Gendo's handI mean in Midori's case it made sense, because Gendo succeeding is literally all his fault. If he had just listened to Misato instead of acting like a scared teenager Gendo wouldn't have his awakened eva to finish the apocalypse.At that point they'd already lost, and she wanted some kind of revenge for what had happened, even if that just meant he died a few minutes earlier than the rest of them did.
>>287630659Kensuke won.
>>287661789After the 14 year timeskip Shinji and Asuka were never going to end up together, that's just the way things panned out.
>>287660866>I be had this debate before an people just tells me that Shinji would have always piloted unit 13 and be a complete retard causing the events of 3.0.Even if Shinji hadn't been gaslit and traumatized into piloting again because it was supposedly the only way to fix what he did and get the people he hurt to love him again. I doubt it was the only trick Gendo had up his sleeve, if Shinji wouldn't pilot voluntarily I don't doubt he would have tortured or brainwashed him into compliance.
Rebuild 1 & 2 are cool, 3 was a major misstep and the first act of 4 is the best piece of Eva SoL we'll ever get. But overall the Rebuilds were a wasted venture.
>>287660866>Like i said before the world also just stops because in this case WILLE for some reason never appears on the rest of the movie despite NERV having an apocalipse maidenI assumed that they were trying to get to Shinji but were facing obstacles to get to him because of NERV having an entire army of those fake angel things at their disposal.
>>287662070>3 was a major misstepUnderstatement.
>>287661789https://desuarchive.org/a/search/text/Kensuke%20won/>>287661850https://desuarchive.org/a/search/text/Shinji%20and%20Asuka%20were%20never%20going%20to%20end%20up%20together/It took like two seconds to find you samefagging this shit Kensuke cuck
>>287663269>>287661850I knew I've seen this exact post almost word for word.
>>287663269Does he do that shit on purpose and hopes nobody will notice
>>287661850>>287661789>After the 14 year timeskip Shinji and Asuka were never going to end up together, that's just the way things panned out.>Kensuke Won.I have never seen two post made by the same person be so wrong and not canon
>>287663477I still can't get over how Canon that image is
>>287663477OG asuka ended up with Shinji. Rebuild Asuka ended up with Kensuke.
>>287663712>>286768993>>286769318Really did not take me long find this exact response and also this >>287661850
>>287663712>>287663806Kek, Kensuke lost even harder with this shit
>>287663838>>287663806Rebuild Shinji and Rebuild Asuka didn't end up together, that's not denial that's an accurate description of what happened.
Pack it up, boys, thread's ruined. It was fun while it lasted.
>>287663859Hold, on. I'm gonna ignore you and post Canon now
>>287663871To be far I'm shocked it took him this long. Kensuke schizo started doing this schizo thing where he replies to post through desu
>thread was fine all day>Kensuke shit and Asushin seethe out of nowhere
>>287663943>>287663871I just wanted to vent about how much I hated this movie series ending.
>>287661726The moment Rei Q and Unit 09 sneaked into the WILLE fleet and she punched a hole in the WUNDER's hull exactly were Shinji was it was game over. Literally Unit 09 only need to move it's hand two meters to the left and grab Shinji to fuck off. If NERV was truly at war with WILLE Rei Q could have killed both Ritsuko and Misato like insects right there. But she only has orders to take Shinji. The only thing that could have prevented a 4° impact was Misato killing Shinji with the DSS chocker. But the woman doesn't pull the trigger and no one in WILLE gives her shit for it. I just to make it clear Shinji was WILLE's prisoner not one of their bro's. Failing to contain him or kill him was their full responsability when they decided it was a good idea a for Shinji to leave his induced coma when he was on quarentine being tested on the WUNDER after being recovered from unit 01.>>287662055Wich brings the point i have been making about how WILLE banishes from the movie, the organization full of assholes more concerned to make NERV and SEELE loose just leaves them alone with a apocalipse maiden that they lost DAYS ago on they only make their move when Unit 13 is activated by that point their only hope was that Mari or Asuka talked down Shinji. Wich means they had 0 hope of stopping the 4° impact.>>287662102Considering how fast Asuka and Mari reach Shinji and Kaworu. It's clear they were very close to Tokyo 03, in fact Asuka and Mari even bring a stash of weapons and external bateries for their Eva's, who are in pristine condition. There is also no indication they were fighting, they were just there waiting.
>>287664142>But the woman doesn't pull the trigger and no one in WILLE gives her shit for it.Well. Not onscreen. I fully expected Midori or Sakura to give her some shit for that. "If you had just killed him none of this would have happened!"
>>287630659It’s long been known that Anno sabotaged Evangelion because he's sick of it, and just want to do Tokusatsu stuff instead; what he believed to be his true calling.
>>287664253Misato is(sadly) the supreme leader of mankind post third impact. No one in WILLE can give her shit, and no one in WILLE ever questions her except maybe Ritsuko. And Midori and Sakura are low level soldier, notice how the two of them only acted against Shinji when the world was ending. Before that Midori tries to complain about how Misato handled the whole situation with Shinji, and Makoto, shigero, sumire and some other random guy told her to shup and obey orders and that Shinji's is just a kid that got used as a impact trigger.
>>287664447The only reason he even made the rebuilds to begin with was to get funding for the projects he's actually excited about.
>>287664142I wish someone would just make a 'rebuild of rebuild' doujin or fanfic for the last two movies, even a manga adaptation to stretch things out and give us some additional context would help.
>>287656660I don't know, but given how several of the animators worked on The Animatrix, it wouldn't be too surprising.On a different note, if I'm being honest, the flaws of 3.0 stood out even more to me when, just a year later, another third movie in a popular subversive anime series came out and also did a lot of what it was trying to do.Only difference being, Madoka Rebellion actually managed to pull it off well.
>>287664536>some other random guy told her to shup and obey orders and that Shinji's is just a kid that got used as a impact trigger.Wish Anno could have gotten the point across that not literally everyone hated him in the third movie.
>>287665513Will they ever make another Madoka entry or is it really going to end with the bad guy or girl in Homuras case winning?
>>287664536Well Midori was right about one thing. You can't turn piss back into water. If it hadn't been for that dieu ex machina in the third act of Thrice Upon A Time, Shinji would have been damned forever.
>>287664142>Wich brings the point i have been making about how WILLE banishes from the movie,>Considering how fast Asuka and Mari reach Shinji and Kaworu. It's clear they were very close to Tokyo 03,It's another problem caused by keeping the movie so hyperfocused on Shinji's POV instead of giving us any context. I understand keeping Shinji in the dark to get him to pilot, was it really necessary to keep the entire audience in the dark rather than getting us up to date on what the fuck happened in the fourteen year timeskip, and how Wille as a military operation works?
>>287661789You might be right.
>>287666130But no see, you’re supposed to feel the same way as Shinji, so the lack of information is deliberate.Sure it doesn’t make for compelling storytelling, but you felt like Shinji, so it’s all justified.
>>287666130>rather than getting us up to date on what the fuck happened in the fourteen year timeskip, and how Wille as a military operation works? The lore and world building post near third impact or third impact(what ever event took place that nuked the world and killed Kaji but Unit 01 is missing) is pretty much all over the place.WILLE as a organization has existed for 14 years, they do supply runs between villages/colonies using KREDIT a smaller organization connected to them. They have enough industrial capacity and manpower to build multiple space stations filled with samples from all living things on earth including multiple astroinauds doing operations in space suits. Yet somehow for some reason the WUNDER is full of barely trained civilians, the WUNDER looks like it just finished being turned into a warship(after 14 fucking years) their Eva's still have the NERV armor package that they change only after they recovered Unit 01 from space. They have a fully autonomous warship fleet a can fight or be used as expendable rocket/shield ships, they have a big fleet of blackhawck helicopters.But like i said before the WUNDER has a crew of barely trained civilians that look like they just arrived to the WUNDER a week ago and are still trading the fucking manuals on how to operates the damn thing. It's just weird in general, get Even more weird with the subtle implication that Mari and Asuka live in the WUNDER, or rather Mari lives inside the WUNDER all the time and Asuka sometimes gets off the ship and expends some time on village 03, also the pilots have a special cell with explosives on the walls for some reason on top of their DSS collars...
>>287632614I do not understand why Anons are acting like Shinji committed mass murder. All he did is save Rei.
>>287642608I never understood why the narrative punished Shinji for Near Third impact. He was not in the wrong at all. So the depressing tone was kinda alienating because its like the plot ignored this fact completely.
>>287666414They never show how Shinji attempting to save Rei caused the impact, or what happened after 2.22 to turn the world into a giant blood red geiger painting. But we're led to believe if it wasn't for Shinji piloting the eva to save Rei, the world wouldn't be like this. Of course nobody except Misato towards the very end of the last movie even acknowledges the fact that if Shinji hadn't piloted the Eva to save Rei, Zeruel would have made it to central dogma consumed Lilith and it would have been game over for everyone. No survivors. At least by piloting the Eva there are some survivors instead of no survivors at all. But all that matters to Midori and Wille is that they have to live in hell, rather than being grateful they're still alive at all.
>>287666498>the plot ignored this fact completely.Exactly! Sure not everyone survived, but some people survived, and they survived explicitly because Shinji fought the angel to try and save Rei! But nobody in Wille or even village three gave him any credit for that!
>>287659905 look at the lyricshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SVGByBZcLA
>>287666498>the plot ignored this fact completely.Funny enough, Misato shits on Shinji because he caused near third impact, even thought by that point, NERV had already been defeated by the angel and the self-destruction system of the geo-front was fully automatic with no human imput meaning that they could not pull the switch like in the original anime to nuke themselves and the angel.However Misato never shits on kaji for>Stealing the Nabuchadnezzar key and giving it to Gendo.Must be ironic that one of the creators of WILLE have Gendo the key to the end of the world and no one complains about it because Kaji killed himself to stop 4° impact, evade criminal chargues of betraying humanity and evading child support. It's not like it was a big deal in the end, Gendo just turned into a angel hybrid that could shot lasers powerfull enough to damage the WUNDER and got the ability to Pilot Unit 13.
>>287666542>>287666577Yes it is fucked up in many levels.>Shinji was cheered on to do this. The narrative showed it in a positive light, him taking action for himself and for someone he loved. The narrative of the next movie acts like some sort of plot subversion happened here where it was bad all along but it is not ever explained.>Like you said, if Shinji hadn't done this, the angels would have just won. Everyone else failed.>Shinji is again right in 3.33 because no one explains shit so all his actions are justified. But again it's shown as some sort of character flaw. I found this to be super alienating. I kept expecting some sort of twist or revelation that never came. I really liked some aspects of 3.0+1.0 but the well was very poisoned and I disliked pretty much everything that stemmed from 3.33. And I don't understand the point of Mari at all. Kaworus monologue about repetition in 3.33 and Mari feel like metacommentary on the audience (shitting on people who wanted a remake and shitting on shippers). I know it's probably not the intention but it just comes off that way.I also have no idea what were the plans for Rei, the second movie has a really moving Reifag ending and the other movies just drop that plot thread with no explanation. Her death in NGE made sense, this just felt forced, but I dont know for what reason it was forced
>>287666595Scarred and battled is the best track on the OST for 3.33. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG8viYadmsY
>>287663960At this point I think they're the same person. Just ignore.
>>287666770It's frustrating that we only have two good first half of the installments. There was potential here! But they just couldn't stick the landing. I wish more fanfic writers would do more to fix the rebuilds.
>>287666846>I wish more fanfic writers would do more to fix the rebuilds.They go in to fix the rebuilds with the idea of doing a story with shipping. So they end up butchering the characters to make them have a romance and then hit the wall of doing the exact same events as rebuild canon but with the characters fucking each others brains out. So same shit, barely any changes other than a Main couple. To make a fic that "fixes" the rebuilds or at least the second half, the idea of making a couple must be discarted and just keeping in a teasing way with a "open ending" on who ends up with who. But so far i have seen that is diabolically difficult for writers in this fandom to do that.
>>287666770>I kept expecting some sort of twist or revelation that never came.Exactly. Thrice upon a time did nothing to explain what happened, or give any real explanation for how exactly what Shinji did resulted in such a huge mess everyone hates him forever. Realistically Shinji would be fucked up for life after what he's experienced, it'll be a miracle if he doesn't turn out like his father when he's an adult after all the trauma he's endured and inflicted upon others. >And I don't understand the point of Mari at all.3.33 would have been a great time to explain what her deal was, where she came from, why she's obsessed with Shinji, why she's happy and perky while the other eva pilots are miserable. But they never do. You could literally cut her out of the story and nothing would change. You could have had Asuka be a lone wolf eva pilot just as angry and alienated as she was in the actual story, it probably would have made her more sympathetic and her anger at Shinji more justified.
>>287666994It's also because relationships are the core of Eva. Like actually the main theme. So I find shipping very understandable in this case.
>>287667036>why she's obsessed with ShinjiMy best vet is that she figured out that Shinji for better or worse is the key of everything since he pilots Unit 01 and unit 01 is the only thing that Gendo doesn't want to destroy. So controlling Shinji is equal to have the real chance to win against Gendo.>Asuka be a lone wolf eva pilot just as angry and alienated as she was in the actual story, it probably would have made her more sympathetic and her anger at Shinji more justified.Just two things, one Asuka doesn't work as a lone wolf character at all.(Besides requiring extensive re-writes because the girl bites the dust in the end to trigger an impact) Two from the moment she was introduced in the rebuilds she was always angry at Shinji and Rei, despite never personally knowing them. She only started tolerating them after she almost got everyone killed because she was having problems trying to stab the angel core in the second battle she took part of in 2.0.
>>287667036Saving the world and your girl as people cheer you on only to wake up years later with the same people despising you, refusing to say why, until you find out you genocided the human race in a way you don't understand is such a fucked up trauma. And then the girl died anyways. It's ridiculous.
Everyone hating Shinji doesn't even make fucking sense since 4.0 retconned it and said "Oh by the way that thing Shinji did wasn't the 3rd impact that destroyed the world, that was something that Seele did years later.". So the entire 3rd movie is turned into a complete non-sequitur.
>>287667165The relationships get in the way of the plot when they try to make the same canon events that happened in rebuilds happen in their "re-write". Certain events don't make sense if they get that "close" for example Shinji fucking off after the bardiel incident. Wich is the direct reason the 10° angel gets a chance to eat Rei. Because Mari and Unit 02 was fighting alone until she could not keep fighting and Rei does her kamikaze attack, if Shinji is in a relationship that deep. He would not want to leave that easy. So he maybe stays so now he and Mari can 2v1 the angel and maybe they can kill it... But at the end of the day they "relationship" have no effects on how the characters generally act so it's just added drama that changes nothing in the end.
>>287667165>It's also because relationships are the core of Eva.You mean the relationships that were completely destroyed by the time skip? Literally everyone Shinji knew grew up without him, and can't possibly reconnect with him, as much as Kensuke and Touji try in the last movie. That what really frustrates me about the rebuilds. Relationships are the crux of the series, and the last two movies completely destroyed Shinji's relationships in such a way he can't possibly fix them or reestablish. Either because what he did was just that bad and that unforgivable (failing to save rei, causing the apocalypse, giving his father the awakened eva) or because the passage of time has made everyone he knew completely unrecognizable and unreachable (see Kensuke and Touji). Nobody can possibly understand what he's been through, or how he feels, or feels or will feel even a fraction of the guilt he'll have to carry for the rest of his life. After 3.33 Shinji is broken to the point where any talk of redemption, or making up for mistakes, reconnecting with others, or moving on from your past, just doesn't work narratively. In the real world, some mistakes are just too big to make up for. And shinji just messed up so badly for any atory that tries to redemption, or attempt to make up for his mistakes, to restore his destroyed relationships with those he cared about, just wouldn't work. Which is why the ending of the final movie still frustrates me.
>>287667299I agree. If there's a relationship it should bloom in the ending in my opinion. The series has always been about how complicated and painful (yet worthwhile) interpersonal relationships are so if there's a relationship it really should be at the end, otherwise the themes are wrapped up too early and you need to push something else to be the heart of the anime. Something like the work of maintaining a relationship would fit, but I feel like something like that would be a bittersweet romance movie and while I'd enjoy it, it wouldn't be what people expect from Eva.
>>287667294They released a short film centered on Midori that explains that even knowing that, a lot of people still blame him for what happened. >>287667214If he hadn't had a meltdown and threatened to smash up nerv in unit 01, he'd have been on standy to fight Zeruel, Rei wouldn't have been eaten by the Eva to begin with, and he wouldn't have caused an impact trying to save her. All he had to do was smash the angels core, instead he tried to pull her out which is what caused the impact.
>>287667294Thuy could have played it out with the idea that people are just very scared of Shinji and the fact that he was able to trigger an impact event doing something that everyone thought was imposible and making everyone fear the evangelions and their pilots, wich would make how Asuka who now has to Pilot the Eva and wear a bomb collar angry at Shinji for how bad he fucked things for the rest of the pilots. They can have it that keeping Shinji alive is a very high risk for WILLE and Misato but the woman knows the kid is innocent SO she is trying to protect him. Instead of the half backed plotline of the collar being his punishment for nearly ending the world, apparently killing billions even when there are two separated events. And then dropping the responsability plotline because not a single civilian in village 03 tries to confront Shinji about the end of the world that he just triggered 3 days ago. Like touji and Kensuke just saw the súper weird light show and then they went back to normal with the rest of the village-03 because now they have magical pillars that can tank impact events and protect humans...
>>287667496>And then dropping the responsability plotline because not a single civilian in village 03 tries to confront Shinji about the end of the world that he just triggered 3 days ago.It was a huge missed opportunity for some juicy drama. There should have been an angry mob demanding his head on a spike after what he did. He basically guaranteed humanity would go extinct. Even if people didn't necessarily blame him for what happened, most would probably not want him in the village out of fear he might go off again.
>>287630659>No way to get redeemed, forgiven or atone for what he's done in any way that mattersThis is why he ends up with Mari, by the way.
>>287667495>If he hadn't had a meltdown and threatened to smash up nerv in unit 01, he'd have been on standy to fight Zeruel, Rei wouldn't have been eaten by the Eva to begin with, and he wouldn't have caused an impact trying to save her. All he had to do was smash the angels core, instead he tried to pull her out which is what caused the impact.This is like saying that Shinji should have followed his orders to engage and destroy unit 03 completly ignoring Asuka life inside the entry(marked as the core of the angel) because NERV just declared the girl a lost cause. Besides Shinji quit because Gendo was an emotional arrogant asshole that put all the eggs in the fact that the dummy system(the automatic Pilot) would work in Unit 01. Said evangelion(Yui) gave everyone that day the middle finger and basically tried a temper tantrum because she really wanted Shinji to be inside her(no pum intended). Mind you any self respecting military organization would have keep Shinji in the base even if he quit, because they lost one Pilot(Asuka) making Unit 02 useless, Unit 00 is not capable of combat, and Even if Unit 01 has a automatic Pilot, they can put Shinji inside Unit 02 in case of emergency (in rebuild pilots can control multiple Eva's and at that point no one denies the possibility of Shinji being in other Eva's), the fact that Misato let's Shinji leave is funny as fuck because she is effectibly lossing 2/3 of her combat force in 48 hours. Also NERV never tested the dummy system in 3 days SO when it failed to activate Unit 01 it stands as another provee that NERV was just THAT incompetent at protecting humanity.
Really, all this comes down to Anno prioritizing telling themes over coherent storytelling.He's so obsessed with making sure the audience "feels a certain way" and hears his "important messages" that he's willing to twist the story and break it down into incoherent pieces to do this.I really get that, in the case of 3.0, forcing in metaphors and themes about the 2011 earthquake was far more important to him than actually following through on established plot threads.
It is kind of funny though seeing the folks on sites like EvaGeeks twist themselves into a knot trying to justify Anno’s decisions, and how it doesn’t actually ruin characters like Rei.
>>287667439>If there's a relationship it should bloom in the ending in my opinion.I totally thought they were going to go for Shinji and Sakura ending up together in the last rebuild movie. To me it was the only relationship that made sense. >She's about his age both physically and mentally, so no awkward age gap like with Asuka, Mari or Misato>She's his best friends sister, so she'll have a good grasp on who he is as a person from her brother. >She doesn't have as much baggage with him as Asuka or Misato do, so she won't mistreat him for his mistakes >She's won't be as mean to him as Asuka, nor as strict and demanding as Misato, not a oedipus complex like Rei>Because of Touji she knows more about him and his struggles than others so she'll be more charitable towards him than other women.>She has an nurturing and kind personality that Shinji needs to comfort him after all the shit he's been through>She's a nurse, so she knows what to do to help him if he has a mental health episode or nightmares. >They already have past history. Her getting hurt by the eva is the whole reason Touji and Shinji became friendsBut no. Shinji had to end up with Mari.
>>287667757are you retarded?
>>287667818Every other relationship Shinji had built over the year he piloted the eva was gone forever. Asuka hated him for not saving her, Misato was afraid of him, Wille despised him, Rei is dead. Everyone else has baggage and hates him. That left two choices. Mari and Sakura, and if anyone was going to be charitable to Shinji it was his best friends sister.
We all know the true evil that came from the rebuilds
>>287667867mari is anno's wife.
>>287667882I wouldnt' go that far. Unlike her NGE counterpart she actually lived to see the end of the series, and is probably living with maya in Village 3. Which is a better ending than Misato, Rei, or Kaworu got.
>>287667902And a shitty character who got no development, no backstory, no explanation of where she came from aside from some cryptic vague stuff about her real name being 'Mari Iscariot'.
>>287667882>They removed her dark failed sexual affair with Gendo. Her entire character colapses into being irrelevant.Mmm interesting. Makes one thing.
Reminder that Super Robot Wars has never adapted 3.0 + 1.0 in spite of adapting Seed Destiny and fucking Cross Ange. Even THEY looked at that and thought "we can't be fucked". Even 3.0 got an adaptation as soon as it came out.
>>287667926>IscariotThis being told by Kozo fuyutsuki makes me think it was just his fancy way of calling her traitor. Because it would be funny as hell that Kozo loved Yui whonwas his student yet at the same time was trying to kill his other student (or at least a clone of his other student) for 14 years until he had a change of heart and let the girl eat the adams and destroy the other WUNDER class ships because he was already to old for all that bullshit.
>>287667976Well the first half of the movie is Shinji moping around crying in a shed feeling sorry for himself, occassionally getting smacked around for Asuka for daring to feel sorry for himself. You can't really make an exciting video game about fighting monsters in a giant robot out of that plot. It'd just be a miserable slog to get through.
>>287667926the rebuild is not the story of evangelion. it's the story of anno making evangelion told through the medium of evangelion.
>>287668146Which is why it's astounding that even the people who salvaged Seed Destiny and Cross Ange threw their hands up in the air. You're right, there's just no way to make that work, especially considering how literally every franchise involved would make it so that a faithful enough adaptation COULDN'T happen.
>>287668658Mari and Asukas evas are fubar until the final battle. Shinji doesn't even get to pilot an eva again until the very end of the movie. Then the rest of the movie takes place in some weird angelic mental pocket dimension where nothing makes sense. How the is Super Robot Wars supposed to adapt that?
>>287667818How is that relevant?
>>287667757There was sure a ton of S/S fanarts in the immediate aftermath.
>>287668856Really? I didn't see all that many.
>>287668856Leave it to fans to do a better job than the original creator.
>>287668963It was a popular middle finger to the Mari out of nowhere canon.
>>287669185>>287668856How the rebuilds should have ended.
>>287666826Yes, the retard who seethes about Asushin and the faggot who spams Kensuke shit are the same person. That's a given and the fact you replied that is pretty fucking odd
>>287632114EoE was just the visuals, you hear most of (action/plot) it during 25/26 anyway.Rebuilds suck because Anno went off the rails with 3.33, either trying to be artsy or just fed up with it, but at the same time loving money. 4 sees a final fuck you to his audience, 3 was him wanting to do something new, and leaving the 'how the fuck do the pieces fit' to later.
>>287668856>>287669185I love her
>>287667757I will never understand why Sakura was forced to share half of her breakdown scene in 3.0+1.0 with the pink-haired Wille broad. (Midori, I had to look up her name) Instead of it being purely her being heartbroken at Shinji going back on everyone's wish for him to never pilot Eva, we have to waste time with a character we have zero connection to getting upset over the same thing. And still, Sakura making the decision to shoot Shinji, knowing he'll be in pain but that it'll prevent him from piloting and will keep everyone safe, (at least in her mind) is more impactful than any amount of whining we hear from Midori.It's clear that Anno didn't know what he was doing or care, because the allocation of time and importance to so many things in 3.0 and 3.0+1.0 is completely out of balance or straight up misplaced. It's a miracle Sakura is as endearing as she is, or that the first third of 3.0+1.0 is as good as it is.
>>287630659I agree. 3.33 was a crime against humanity.
>>287632214Yo, that's one of my wallpapers
>>287630659All of these things are actually why it's the best of the four films and the only time in Rebuild it felt like Anno gave a shit at all about making an interesting movie. It's bleak and angry instead of pandering and conciliatory, there is nothing wrong with that
>>287672994Making a movie with the themes that 3.0 had would be fine were it to be done in a vacuum. As it stands, 3.0 being so spiteful to the two movies that came before it and so alienating to the audience of those movies only serves to sow negativity, and undermines its own themes and that of its predecessors for the sake of being controversial. Shin Godzilla is good because it's a different take on the Godzilla formula but exists in a vacuum, whereas 3.0 is bad because it undermines the greater whole that it can't not be a part of. I think, personally, that there's everything wrong with 3.0 being what it is, especially after 3.0+1.0's unceremonious ending, because it insults everything that came before and everything that's yet to come, from the audience to the staff involved in the production to the basic concept of storytelling itself. Especially that last part. I don't care how exemplary the Rebuilds are of Kishotenketsu, the fact that 3.0 alone only exists to flip the bird to everyone ruins the entire package.
>>287673877So is 3.0 the Last Jedi of Evangelion?
>>287645156I'm jealousI never got too invested into reading about the production of NGE/EoE/rebuilds but from what I understand the reason NGE was sell liked and remembered wasn't even all Anno and there were other smart people involved who b built things for the original series but the rebuilds were different from that
>>287674521Apology for typos, my body just cant get used to this new keyboard
