So some guy told me that he’s reading Vinland saga and when I asked him how it is, he said the first 4 tankobons are great but after that, “the author started inserting an idealistic, modern, anti-violence morality into the story, that undermines the internal logic of the world the author was building from the start.” As in, it contradicts everything that was set up in the beginning.What do you guys think? I never read or watched it at all and all I know is that it’s about a Viking guy trying to build a life after a war or something like that, so I just wanted to check if others think of it like that
is that guy in this thread with us right now
>>287647201He isn't reading the manga, he's formed his opinion solely on TikToks.
>>287647201https://desuarchive.org/a/search/text/So%20some%20guy/type/op/
>>287647201>the author started inserting an idealistic, modern, anti-violence morality into the story, that undermines the internal logic of the world the author was building from the start.Turns out that's the main character being exposed to Christian morality.
>>287647201>idealistic, modern, anti-violence moralityI don't think Christianity in the West and Taoism/Buddhism in the East are "modern" ideas. He sounds like a zoomer who believes the world didn't exist before he was born.>that undermines the internal logic of the world the author was building from the start.” As in, it contradicts everything that was set up in the beginning.It's a story about a person who changes. This is generally called "character progression," and it's a popular trope outside of battleshonen.
It's a fair criticism because putting cool action scenes and cool violence into your series and then asking the reader to relate to a Muh Pacifism character is just weird.Thorfinn also just becomes a wretched character in general. Pacifism is an idealistic thing you can do as an individual, but part of any societal contract assumes you will use violence to defend other people who are too weak to defend themselves. This is still true now, but in the past even more so, and ESPECIALLY if you are good at it.I understand the context is meant to make Thorfinn seem weirdly noble, but at the same time also does put him in contexts to challenge that idea - the issue is the author never really threads the needle and Thorfinn just seems like a dumb stubborn asshole 90% of the time. He can't rationalise how fucked up his life was but rather than move through this to become a strong man with a sense of justice, he just picks an extreme form of simplistic idealism that's easy to adhere to. Pacifists aren't noble people, they're just afraid of needing to have a value system that is even mildlly complicated.The weird woman-good, men-bad perspective doesn't really help either. It's just hacky shit that is embarassing to engage with when you're supposedly a History nerd and should have a developed enough perspective to see how there's nuanced logic to every societal structure that's ever developed relative to their region.
>>287647256It's not historicaly correct, Bible stories adapted for vikings weren't like action movies with Schwarzenegger. Clerics weren't stupid and used smart tricks to baptize barbarians
>>287647201>not me but
Not this shit again
Nobody cares about the pacifism, we all dropped it when he introduced literal trannies and did MULTIPLE timeskips.I want to impregnate Canute
Hi Schitzo.
>>287647201The pacifism would be more Palpable if they leaned more on the Christian thing imo.It's weird how they pretend the pacifism comes from the norse thors, instead of Christianity which would be more believable.
>>287647762Did you even watch the show? Thors became pacifist because of his experience of being a soldier. He realizes that people he killed also has loving family like his. If anything it's more realistic coming from an individual standpoint rather than vague religious teachings. This mentality is also the reason why many religious countries are bitter and are often in conflict, meanwhile irreligious countries are peaceful and prosperous. Modern people have overcome all the religious bullshit and just focus on more genuine approaches towards every issue.
>>287647201>Trans flag
>>287647201>Great at the start>Slows down around the Farm>Sucks during the Homecoming>Picks up again during the War>SKIPS Constantinople (unforgivable)>Vinland was interesting at the start, I enjoy stories of people learning how to communicate>Blew the premise and has one of the worst endings put to penAnyway, Bug Eyes won.
>>287649395>worst endingsYou mean, historically accurate ending.
>>287648075lol
>>287649522Honestly this.The problem with the ending is the entire premise with the vinland stuff couldn't be changed, so he was forced to end it as historically accurate as possible even if it definitely hurts the narrative.
>>287649522It can be both.
>>287648075>He realizes that people he killed also has loving family like hisVikings fucking believed that dying in battle was the most noble thing you could do. His thoughts upon killing a guy he was fighting shouldn't be "aww, now his kids will be sad ;_;", but "this man died an honorable death and his kids will be proud of him for that".
>>287647201The main character wants to kill the man who killed his father, on the process he became himself a killer and then the man he wanted to kill was killed by another man, so he is empty after that. Also since the beginning of the story, the father of the main character was a former warrior who doesn't want the same future for his son because war violence is a nightmare.
>>287649522>You mean, historically accurate ending.>>287649652>Honestly this. bullshitthe ending wasn't bad because he failedthe ending was bad because he as a character didn't reflect on the lessons he learned in the final arcit was bad because the supposed moral of the story was to be peaceful, while the actually depicted events have shown might really does make rightit was bad because the story had the gall to pretend like Thorfinn still achieved some kind of victory while he actually fucked over everyone who believed in himall of these problems are character-driven and therefore the mangaka's fault, not history's
>Historically accurateIRL Thorfinn was an warmonger that was mass killing the natives until they realized the settlement was doomed due to bad planning on their part, so they went back. Anime Thorfinn got a lot of debt, got a lot of people murdered because of his tranny pacifism ideology disguised as Christianity and was definitely hanged when he came back.
>>287647201This series should have ended before Thorfinn grew upEverything that came after was pure shit. I wanted to see a Viking historical epic, not some crazy Indian prophet high on drugs then predicted that a thousand years later, America would have nigger slaves and nuclear bombsPure trash writing
>>287647256*Atheistic humanismThorfinn is a fedora tipper
>>287650005I said, did you even watch the show? Did you miss the part where he said he's starting to become scared of dying when Ylva was born? Sounds like you've watched too many shounen slop so you only care about childish 1 dimensional battles like a retard.
>>287647326Good post.
>troon gets a panel in the last chapter but Canute doesn'tReminder that Vinland Saga died with Askeladd
>>287652585Has any Manga shafted a character as hard as Canute?He went from arguably being a sort of second or third protagonist alongside Thorfinn and Askeladd, to a cameo appearance character.
>>287647256>Christian moralityWhat Christian morality? Being faggot who denies reality? >inb4 but muh other cheekEven the killing commandment refers to not being a MURDERHOBO and committing murder. Throfin went full Ghandi if not beyond, which is, of course, retarded.
The laughing indian
>>287650592Nope. There are actually records about how Thorfinn and his few settlers traded with the natives. Settlers who arrived early did throw some spears, that part is true. And that's also one of the factor that ignites further conflicts and they eventually went back because they thought it's just not worth all the hassle.
>>287647201That's what I thought and still I agree with it. Justin Trudeau motherfucker.
>>287647201The protagonist didn't want to fight anymore, that's it.
>>287652682Farmland arc made me think that Canute was being set up as a major antagonist and Hobbesian foil to Thorfinn. Maybe even the reason why they fled to North America in the first place. It's such a waste of his character and major missed potential considering the huge quality drop starting with the Baltic War. Post Farm arc VS almost feels like a different series.
>>287647201>What do you guys think? I never read or watched it at all datamining thread
>>287654450>Being faggot who denies reality?yes, that's what christianity is, glad we are on the same page
>>287647201I've never watched it or read it but all i know is that it's about a guy who tries to change for good and live in peace while a bunch of stupid faggots and retarded faggots and homosexual retard faggots try to fuck with him. The story isn't original since irl this happens all the time.
>>287656641That's why the ending of the Farm Arc actually restored my faith in it for a bit. Canute being set up as the villain for the whole arc only to essentially agree to a ceasefire with Thorfinn was great. Which pissed me off all the more that there was an entire section of their story that was cut off because the author timeskipped past Constantinople like it was nothing.>Canute wiped from the story barring a flashback>Lief turned senile overnight sorry boss>Remember that one retard who Thorfinn cucked? Me neither lmaoGoing full "WE GOTTA GET TO VINLAND NOW" torpedoed the last good part of story and I'll never not be pissed.
>>287657029Yeah honestly good point maybe the problem is we are missing story here.There was clearly something supossed to take place in constantinople we didn't see.
>>287647201>Hey lets go to this new land with violent savages and bring no weapons to protect ourselves Pacifism is the cult of retarded pussies
