>Now on display in the Attack on Titan Museum in his hometown as of April 24, 2026:>"Eren became a protagonist who committed mass slaughter on a scale rarely seen in other works of fiction. As for why I conceived such a story from the beginning, part of it was my desire to create a narrative with a major twist—where the victim becomes the perpetrator. But a large factor was also my own immaturity and foolishness at the time, when I was in my early twenties. That aspect became the core of Eren's character, leading to the point where he confesses not as someone forced into wrongdoing by circumstances, but as someone who harbored a desire to do harm. However, "Attack on Titan" had long since ceased to be mine alone, and Eren became a character loved by many readers. In the end, without fully committing to portraying him as a detestable figure, I found myself depicting him with a certain closeness and sympathy. As a result, I feel there remains a sense of insincerity in the story's conclusion—at least in my own assessment."
so he's saying he shouldve made him a cartoonish evil devil instead? that's retarded. there's many issues with AOT last couple arcs but eren's characterization isn't one of them. being complex and flawed is not a bad thing. Man nips are so retarded sometimes.
>>287732264Retard.
>>287732291Faggot.
>>287732219we all knew this alreadythe only people who didn't think so were the people who were coping, and the lelouchfags who were just happy that their predictions were correct
Isayama-san its been 5 years now. Are we moving on from SnK or what?
>>287732219So he basically admitted he did the ending half-heartedly, not for the reason the copers said but for the exact opposite reasons. He couldn't fully commit because people liked Eren so he pussied out in making him more contemptible since.Glad we know he really was a hack all along.
>>287732264Double retard.
>>287732648I dont think he should. Imagine being so close to having your work be memorialised as one the greatest manga of all time then you fuck it up because you didnt have any balls. I hope it haunts him for the rest of his life.
>>287732732It was never going to be what you wanted, the balls he didn't have were to tell people who liked Eren that they were wrong. He was always going to lose.
I feel like a lot of the general public supported the Rumbling until the end where they had to accept the prototypical good guy wins ending.
>>287732219>>287732697No shit people were sympathetic to Eren and Eldians when everyone in the world still hated them. Maybe you should have shown the Marley side first or had Bert and Reiner be the protags. Isayama still doesn't understand why some people sided with Eren. I agree with him being a hack.
>>287732219Fucking slowpoke. Theres a thread already
Even as someone who was sympathetic to Eren I felt he should have gone all the way. None of this pussyfooting about. If he wanted purely contemptible Eren he should have done this. If anything I hate Eren more in the half hearted ending all about his and Mikasas “Love”.
>>287732756You read my post wrong esl san.
>>287732219Doomposters keep on winning. First it was Eternal Champion fags literally an hero'd themselves after seeing the ending. Now Hackyama admits that he is a hack.
>>287732219>half-bake mass slaughters>the world population is still way larger than paradis population Either go full genocide or don't at all.This 80% shit just ruins it even more.
Would people like an ending where Eren goes full genocide and inadvertently kills his friends in the process?On top of that he witnesses Paradis destroying itself in a civil war because they no longer have a common enemy to unite against so in the end it's just him in the truly free world that he used to wish for.
>>287733914Then, it ends up being a cautionary tale which is better than the half-bake shit we have.
>>287732219Why didn't he just write an alternative ending?
>>287732219Now let's have Fujimoto say something about CSM Pt. 2's ending.
>>287732219It still doesn't make sense. He's saying that he wanted Eren to be this irredeemable character but because he knew his audience liked Eren, he wanted him to be more innocent. That explains why Eren turns into this schizo that's literally forced by fate and has no choice by the end. But his assumption that Eren is irredeemable for going full rumbling is just fundamentally wrong. He goes out of his way to make the Rumbling justifiable. There are multiple scenes where he writes the world as so cruel and shuts down all other possible peaceful options that it makes the Rumbling justified.Early on, there's talk about how Marley, the nation with concentration camps and child Eldian soldiers is still better than every other nation when it comes to how Eldians are treated. I guess that was long ago enough that Isayama was younger and felt more edgy. But then even near the end of the manga, during the Rumbling arc flashbacks, you get that scene of the characters attending the pro Eldian meeting where at best, they say that the Eldians in Paradis are the ones who who are truly at fault. There's basically no reason to write something like that if you weren't trying to justify Eren and the Rumbling.
>>287733914Yes, there was a path towards making this a tragedy without fucking over eren's character in the process. Lean into the fact that he killed his mom (and father) and have him start killing his friends too. He'd be free but have no one to share his freedom with, and watch as Paradis decays under his leadership due to his lack of will to live
>>287734103I always agreed with this take. It's a "Genocide Bad" story (which is on itself a pretty childish message) while being a story that's built to justify said genocide and make it the only sensible option. It makes the Avengers shit so alienating.
>>287732219KWAB
>He wanted to go full chud but cucked out due to shipfags/normiesKEK
>>287733914Sasha already died thanks to his retarded plans anyway so getting rid off of a couple more, or all of them, wouldnt be out line. Could also make way into a final Historia and Eren talk that would be way more interesting than the Eren and Armin one.
>>287733914It won't really work that well because Armin is a weak protagonist. If Erwin was alive instead and he goes up against Eren now that would be a good finale.
>>287735731Isayama would just turn Erwin into a retard.Erwin is better off dead.
>>287732219I don't buy it. I think he got forced to change the ending by the publisher and has been told to fall on his own sword to keep it a secret.Emotions don't change immediately, they change slowly and gradually. Look at Berserk, it doesn't change immediately but gradually over a long time as Miura's personality changed.Attack on Titan was an immediate hit. He would have recognized that many people loved Eren years ago and the story would never have gotten as far as it did with him being "evil"
>>287732264Being a seething cuck isnt characterization
>>287732219I kinda respect immortalizing his shame in a plaque. Good for you that you realize it's wrong to do "tweests" for the sake of it.
>>287732219So his show of love was removing all agency and making him a sockpuppet for a retarded pig farmer slavegirl.
>>287734103>That explains why Eren turns into this schizo that's literally forced by fate and has no choice by the end. But his assumption that Eren is irredeemable for going full rumbling is just fundamentally wrong. He goes out of his way to make the Rumbling justifiable. There are multiple scenes where he writes the world as so cruel and shuts down all other possible peaceful options that it makes the Rumbling justified.Exactly, and it's why his throughline for Eren was so half-baked in the first place. He genuinely couldn't make him an irredeemable character which ran counter to his original intentions with the character.
I think the AoT scenario should be analyzed by serious military experts. What if the Rumbling were to happen today somewhere in the world?What would be the reaction to a monstrous threat about which nothing is known, yet immediate action is required?The best option would, of course, be to strike the location from which the Titans emerge with hydrogen bombs before they spread; the casualties would be high, but that would likely be the least evil. But the thing is, there would only be a few hours to launch the warheads. Would a quick decision be made to eliminate the threat, or would debates, research, and investigations begin while the bastards spread further and further across the globe?Later, we’d have to fight them conventionally, and here’s the question: to what extent could the nations’ armies coordinate and mobilize?We’ve already seen with COVID how the world operates in the face of an incomparably smaller threat....
>>287732219>every character suddenly remembers they had a 1on1 conversation with erin where he was normal again>"hurr thank you for killing everyone for our sake">erin turning into a child crying about mikasa having sex with someone else, just to ruin his character even moreits badits all badhowever its funny in retrospec.now if you ever have an anime conversation about attack on titan irl its always about how bad the ending is.
>>287732697People like Eren precisely because of how he is.>uhhhh I can't make Eren commit to his ideals else people will hate himMake it sense.
>>287734103It will never not amaze me how Isayama apparently wanted to make an anti-genocide/violence story yet went out of his way to make such actions justifiable in his fictional world due to how cruel, angry and greedy it was.
>>287732219Isayama's biggest mistake was revealing the mystery and adding that stupid 13 years lifespan limit. Because half of his problems would've been solved by a proper timeskip like 10-20 years and not the one we got after the basement.
>>287737743I think the 13 years shit was just an excuse to justify Grisha giving this world destroying power to his 10 years old son.
>>287732264>there's many issues with AOT last couple arcs but eren's characterization isn't one of themWhat? Having such an obnoxious, pathetic sperg for a protagonist has been one of SnK's biggest problems since page 1, panel 1.
The Mikasa and Ymir part is so underdeveloped, and it ends up becoming a central plot point wants to make me kill myself while reading it.
>>287738209Not even a central.Literally the most important plot point and reason for everything to happen.It is literally Rey Palpatine being the chosen one all over again
>>287738082Anon, Eren was showed to be an active character willing to develop and evolve across the manga.Hannes’s death and his whole arc in Uprising arc was to display that.It was literally one of the things people praised eren for, how he was actually growing up and evolving during the manga.Reducing him back into the angry sperg he was in S1 was the bad part of his derailment
>>287732219The GOAT is too self-critical and modest.The ending only had one flaw: Eren having the ability to influence the actions of titans in the past. Everything else was perfect, perfect. Everything, down to the last minute details.
Wtf is the ending? Any anons want to spoil it for me? All I know is titans are big naked assholes and killing titans is actually bad and they are le heckin people with feelings too?
>The cringevengers>Reiner becoming a worthless joke after all his development>Ymir loving her rapist and projecting onto fucking Mikasa of all people>Hange killing like 200 colossal titans by herself>Annie just getting away with everything while Reiner gets shat on constantly>Historia becoming a worthless joke after wasting like 3 arcs on her>Eren out of nowhere saying he loves Mikasa, not even knowing why he did what he did and killing his mom because lolThe only good part about that final arc was confirming the shithole island got nuked because they pussied out on total annihilation
>>287732219>Museum They gave AoT a whole museum for itself? WHAT?
>>287739822>MC turns into a genocidal maniac >But looks hot while doing it >Timmycels with school shooting fantasies start self-inserting as him and make headcanons about him secretly fucking the blonde "Aryan" dwarf waifu >The MC fails in the end and starts wailing like a little bitch >Cue the timmycel meltdown
>>287732219>>287732264If he'd made Eren clearly and unambiguously into a villain then fine, the series would have been much, much less interesting than it appeared to be (since, everyone including Isayama seems to ignore that the Marley crew came to Paradis explicitly to Genocide them at the end...), but at least it would be clear and consistent, and I could have simply dropped it assuming it was going the boring, predictable route.Instead, it kept pretending it was having an interesting, conflicting protagonist dealing with an extremely difficult moral position. It kept justifying everything Eren was doing (Nobody else had an answer, Hange had no answer, Armin had no answer, the closest to an alternative we got was an overly complicated nothingburger from Gabi), and so it appeared to be far more interesting than it wound up being.We had all the stuff with Ymir and Eren saving her, and it all seemed to be going somewhere supremely unique and supremely interesting.And so, people like me with Great Expecations wound up getting suckered into "Ymir loved being a slave", the Cringevengers and a lame Zero Requiem plot that completely wasted our time.And I imagine people on the other side found it similarly frustrating that the story kept trying to soften a guy they wanted to be an out-and-out villain.
>>287732878I didn't want Eren to be the villain, but if he was gonna be the villain then he should'a stomped the entire earth.Half-hearting it like this sucked.
>>287734103>But his assumption that Eren is irredeemable for going full rumbling is just fundamentally wrong. He goes out of his way to make the Rumbling justifiable. There are multiple scenes where he writes the world as so cruel and shuts down all other possible peaceful options that it makes the Rumbling justified.Honestly, it reminds me of the morality in Ideon.The themes are incredible blatantly presented as "Both sides are wrong, why can't they just put their guns down and talk? They keep continuing the fight and that makes them as bad as each other."But the actual content of the entire series is the MC's running away and/or defending themselves while being unilaterally hunted by a group of enemies that won't stop trying to kill them no matter how many losses they take in the process. The MCs are never hostile or aggressive at all outside of preventing themselves from being attacked, or defending themselves when they are.And it ends with "Tsk, they couldn't learn. Both sides are nothing but fools." And kills off everyone.Similar shit here, where the series constantly shows us why the Rumbling had to happen, cuts off every other avenue, and literally has the Marleyans come to Paradis to try genocide every one of them... And then says "Tsk, how could they do a genocide? That's unthinkable."
>>287736321Every wall titan is identical and has identical weak spotSeveral years of R&D + mass production of semi-autonomous drones/missiles and we would be able to destroy the without nukes.Without preperation it would be problem, but million giants are not enough to wipe out humanity, especially if they were nuked before they spread out
>>287732219I finished the first two Dune books a few days ago. It had a lot of similar themes and concepts as SnK. By the second book, Paul becomes a galactic conqueror who is responsible for the deaths of over 28 billion people. Despite this, they still do a good job at making Paul sympathetic because he truly believes he has no other choice and he's tortured by the guilt of the jihad's bloodshed. His main character flaw is his fatalism, and the ending very heavily implies he could have possibly found a way out of the Jihad if it wasn't for his prophecies and prescient vision blinding him. Very compelling tragic character.Anyway I bring this up because it's really similar to what Isayama was trying to do with Eren. Except in the end Isayama took a fat shit on Eren's entire character and couldn't fucking make up his mind on whether Eren's supposed to be in the right (cause it was a very unambiguous "kill or be killed" situation and Armin thanks him for everything) or in the wrong (cause you are clearly supposed to side with the avengers). There is no thematic throughline with Eren. It's a bunch of messy ideas that strangle each other to death.Isayama is a hack and has no balls.
>>287739870And that Floch turned out to be 100% unambiguously correct.
>>287739957That second panel is real??? So he never bangs his step sister? Why even read this shit
>>287742351Oh yeah, Floch was easily the best character in the manga by FAR, those few chapters where he went full bolshevik were incredible
>>287742415What is it with timmies and their incel obsession with sex and "banging"?They place it even higher than academics, career and making money in their hierarchy of ambitions. It's fucking disgusting.
>>287742415You know what the "best" part is? he could have easly done it at any time in the story. Mikasa was BEGGING for him to give her cock, but he was never interested, until the final chapter when he suddenly was.
>>287742551He literally asked "What am I to you?" And she sperged out. She has nobody to blame but herself.
>>287732219Ending defenders are silent
>>287734103He was mad eden was more popular than armin
>>287732264Pretty much, his editor was the only who understood the story being written. Once left to his own devices Isayama proved himself too weak to see his life's work through.
>>287733955What ending would've worked and also satisfied most readers? He wrote himself into a corner. It didn't help that his initial plan was not something people would accept.
>>287743227I would have been happy with a phyrric victory, he kills everybody outside but the world he dreamed about is flat and shitty and he refuses to come back and never sees his friends again and dies alone
>>287743272I always the most kino ending was a variation of this. But in my version he also eats all the shifters and crystalizes himself in the deepest trench of the ocean, burying the titan powers forever.
I think for all of his faults, Isayama managed to open a door for the reader to seriously think about alternate outcomes. It has the potential for interesting discussions about what Eren could've done differently and such, instead of ending on a wet fart like MHA and many other manga.
Very few works have proper endings. Do we know why manga and anime have such trouble with endings?
/a/ should rewrite the ending
>>287743701A lot of the time is because the author´s original plan got too distorted because the manga went for longer than intended or because of the editors forcring changes in. So the author has to improvise something.Other times is because shit has been going for so long the author gets burnt out half asses the final stretch.
>>287732219Hackayama admits he wussed out of the most obvious ending of all time. What a fucking moron.
>>287734073Fujimoto is too high test to apologize like a fag.
>>287743481If you think about it…just look at JJK.Gege basically killed his own setting and made every single lore bit lame and boring to explore.And jjk is fading in obscurity.Snk despite everything is still there 5 years later
>>287744231>And jjk is fading in obscurity.Did you know JJK has an anime with quite high ratings?
>>287743809Authors can be blind to their characters taking on a life of their own, like Rem in Re:Zero and Luna Lovegood in Harry Potter.TBF, Tappei recognized Rem took over the story and has acknowledged as much. But Rowling, with an audience of 500 million, was the 1 person on the planet to not realize she wrote Luna as the best romantic partner for Harry because she picked the pairings at the start of the story. What could have been a 3 book buildup turned into a bullshit, divisive, nonsensical final chapter that didn't fit the story we read.
>>287732219SnK is what happens when you write a story about oppression and colonialism but you have never experienced it yourself firsthand.
>>287744231>And jjk is fading in obscurity.LMAOMAO>Snk despite everything is still there 5 years laterYes, only to be shat on.
>>287744351And yet most of the discussions are about cheap aurafagging and the wanking the most obvious gary stu in manga history since Kirito and Kira Yamato.It is worthlessLiterally 0 staying power
>>287732219Genocide BAD!!!!
>>287733914I wanted an ending where Eren finished his goal and killed the whole world, but for Ymir that wasn't enough. I wanted Eren giving Ymir her freedom was his downfall and she continued the rumbling despite him, causing the destruction of the whole world and leaving Eren as the only survivor in a hell of his own making
>>287744429What would you have the author of SnK do then?>>287744579We won't know until the JJK anime ends>>287744399>But Rowling, with an audience of 500 million, was the 1 person on the planet to not realize she wrote Luna as the best romantic partner for HarryCrazy that I felt that too and I only just watched the movies
Real talk; did anyone actually think that he didn't rewrite the ending in a rush in the last few volumes? Like its super obvious right? Like it was always obvious right? No one actually thought the ending we got was the original planned ending right?He cucked out at the last second, and because of it the ending will always be half baked. He didn't have the balls that code geass or death note writers had, where the MC can go all the way.
>>287732264Not cartoonishly evil, but resolute. The entire way up until the ending Eren was resolute, he was determined throughout the entire story, he knew what he was doing even if it was evil, he believed in his actions.And then at the last second "Waaaah I don't know anything, i don't want Misaka to fuck other guys, I'm weak and I don't actually have any beliefs"It was patheticPeople were fine with Eren losing as long as he remained resolute to the end, but instead we got random character assassination. If you're going to do it you gotta go all the way even if you lose.
>>287734103The fucking manga ends showing Eren was right because they blew up the island one generation laterHe was right about everythingIf you don't wipe them all out, they will assuredly wipe you out instead, and they did.
>>287745652it was clearly much later so it wasn't directly related
>>287732219Ending defenders will now forever eat shit straight from Isayama's anus. Good, vindication gives me a boner
>>287745620No one was fine with him losing, that made no sense. People were fine with him dying which is different if he did so while accomplishing his vision. The character assassination happens exactly because there was no other way for him to lose if not by saying that actually Eren was a retard all along.
>>287732219>ISAYAMA ADMITS SNK´S ENDING IS DOGSHIT!He didn't say that.
>>287746219Just have them do all the same shit where Misaka kills him, except without him crying about it and saying it was all fake all along, and people would mildly accept it. He's still resolute, she still kills him, you're free to interpret whether he wanted it to happen all along, but for fucks sake don't spell it out in the worst ways. Don't have a ten minute "thanks for becoming a mass murderer for us" conversation just so you can salt the ground of his motivations and shit all over them
>>287733914Alternatively, go ahead and kill Eren, you can even have him do his 80% shit, then have the Avengers go to the rest of the world and say "Hey look we killed him, we're not all bad!"then have the Marleyans say "Holy shit we were right about you freaks" and gun them down right there. Bleak but effective
>>287745587Lelouch only did his evil shit to unite everyone against him for peace though.
>>287732219Why is there a museum for an anime?
>>287746336If Eren were to lose it would have to be pre rumbling, once it starts it's already over. And even then the plot would have to be massively different as up until that last Shiganshina battle there was nothing to even imply he had second thoughts. So no, there's no last minute change that could've saved the story.
>>287743806Hackyama borrowed a lot of themes from G Gundam so he may as well copy the happy ending.
That last arc needed more Gabi killing Islanders
>>287746879>G Gundampostingoh wow that's a blast from the /snk/ past
>>287732219>>"Eren became a protagonist who committed mass slaughter on a scale rarely seen in other works of fictionIs he retarded?There's countless of series and franchises where people destroy planets, galaxies, universes, dimensions, realities and more and it's just another Monday for them.
>>287747105Note he said protagonist
>>287747166That doesn't disprove me at all whatsoever.
>>287743701I feel like some stuff the ending is written first and you build the story towards that ending. Writing like that keeps you on track and gives you a guide for how to orient the story.If you just write whatever, and decide the ending based on in the moment decisions the landing might be kind of shit. Naruto,Bleach, Beelzebub, Medaka didn't have endings planned.Donkey Kong Bananza I'm 99% sure the finale was what the game was built around. Something like that isn't just a last minute pivot.
>>287732219>As a result, I feel there remains a sense of insincerity in the story's conclusionThis could have been avoided very easily if Isayama realized his own growth could have mirrored Eren's. Eren wanted to cause harm because he was an angry kid, the same way Isayama wanted to create a protagonist who turns into a monster, but by maturing (Eren realizing what he's actually doing) he realizes committing to this is probably not the best idea but he's already too deep to go back.The real problem is that the shift happened in what? Two-three chapters? Eren was a monster already seemingly set in his goal, but then he changes too suddenly. If anything, the insincerity comes from Isayama continuing his vision but pulling the brakes at the last second instead of trying to approach it with his renewed perspective. Eren could have been both detestable but also sympathetic because he is
>>287732264room temperature IQ take
>>287732219That explains a lot desu, he massacred his story so that normalfags don't ruin him.
>>287746921It needed more of Gabi bouncing on (my) cock i agree
FLOCHCHADS VINDICATED
Problem with writing a villain protagonist is your protagonist is the viewpoint character, so readers are going to automatically be more empathetic with how they think, especially if you make them thoughtful and complex.Legend of the Galactic Heroes solved this by making Reinhard and Yang dual protagonists. Both are fundamentally good men, but Yang doesn't have innocent blood on his hands while Reinhard does. But Yang was also ineffective and just a pawn of a corrupt system, while Reinhard truly transformative and shaped the future in profound ways.The problem then wasn't turning Reiner into the protagonist, it was making Marley was too cartoonishly evil. You could still make the case for Eren as a villain up until the Dune-esque closed loop future aspect of the coordinate. Paul Atreides was remembered as one of history's greatest butchers, but few knew once he became the Qwizatz Haderach he lost most of his agency. Only until he blinded himself did he finally regain control of his destiny.You simply can't make Eren the pawn of fate and keep him a villain. It was an amazing, earth-shattering twist but it also cements Eren as the tragic hero protagonist.
>>287747703In what universe is this chudoid vindicated.
>>287732219All of the ending was bad but the Ymir shit was truly dogshit writing. There was zero foundation for Ymir to love Fritz in fact she should have actively hated him and "stockholm syndrome" is a bullshit term, captives do not just suddenly start empathize or fall in love with their captors especially if they're cruel or mean.
>>287732219>never defend yourself because you might hurt innocents >despite the efforts of the alliance, Eldia goes full Yeagerist >Paradis gets nuked anyway as well (they should've made it clear it was unrelated to the rumbling but it's still nihilistic horseshit)I could forgive if it was left ambiguous, but Paradis getting nuked was such a kick in the faceThe ending was so dogshit you may as well side with Marley, fuck it. At least they had a pretty cool aesthetic and wouldn't half ass their mission because muh cycle of violence or whatever the fuck and they understood you either oppress or be oppressed
>>287747198Maybe not but it must be clarified
Pieck
>>287732219So he wanted a protagonist that was evil just because he's evil, but somehow stumbled into making a more complex protagonist and tried to walk it back at the last second to keep with his original vision without upsetting fans?Did I get it right or am I extra retarded?
>>287732264>so he's saying he shouldve made him a cartoonish evil devil instead?That route would've been better than Isayama being wishy-washy with his character.
>>287748161More like Peak.
Idk what you guys are on about,the peak ending I've read had Eren kill everyone outside the walls and return to his newborn child in a free world.
>>287732219No shit
I don't get what he wanted to do moreKill everyone except paradis people instead of only 80% of the world population?
>>287732219This is what happens when you don't end it with wren x mikasa you fucking fraud
>>287746813>different as up until that last Shiganshina battle there was nothing to even imply he had second thoughts.>Entire post is about "there are no second thoughts">Anon literally cannot imagine the exact same scenerio playing out except without the dream conversation which gave him second thoughts>You can tell him to imagine it over and over but he still keeps imagining it playing out the same with second thoughts
>>287747386Naruto ending was the only thing about it that worked
>>287747420Eren didn't want to kill people because he was an angry kidHis entire ideology can be explained in that panel when he looks out to sea and says "if we get rid of those people over there we can finally be free". He understands on a core level that they can never be free as long as people on the outside exist, because either they kill them or the reverse happens, but they will never be able to get along in the end. If you bitch out of wiping them out, they will wipe you out, and the story ultimately proved this right by showing that Eren bitched out, and a generation later the people from outside nuked the island to death.It's not a pleasant theme for some people but it was correct in the end, one group will wipe out the other group, all the peace talks in the world won't change that fact, it can prolong it but not change it, you're either in the group that wipes out or gets wiped out. Eren resolved himself to wipe out, but ultimately couldn't do it. And two generations later the entire island gets wiped out, proving that indeed there was no other way to prevent it.
>>287751085yeah thats the general reasoning behind Eren's actions but the big fuel for him is his own disatisfaction with the new status quo that is humanity existing just fine in the world but he himself doesn't get to see or live in this said world so might as well redirect my pent up frustration of the titans and being deprived of basic human rights to the rest of them and rationalize it as "saving Eldia", its still an immature and stupid state of mind that more or less caused more harm to his closed ones than good, every time something or someone antagonizes Eren he is bound to fight back and move to the next target.
>>287751580> but the big fuel for him is his own disatisfaction with the new status quo that is humanity existing just fine in the world but he himself doesn't get to see or live in this said worldBut thats not the big fuel for him.If it was just that he wouldn’t have gone that far.Yes, he would’ve been disappointed by the world but never wishing for it to be destroyed , at worst he would’ve reverted into the bored kid watching the walls he was before armin went with the book.The thing that drawed him into genocide territory is the imminent threat of destruction that was incoming and him being powerless against it.He literally witnessed atrocities after atrocities until that point, even his own father flashbacks where he literally so the little girl that was his aunt MAULED ALIVE BY DOGS just for existing.And than all of his father’s backstory, on top of witnessing people dying all around.Someone must post again that scene with him wondering about it in chapter 130 (before he cries at Ramzey) ,where he is literally walking across the street full of his future victims, trying to rationalize the whole thing and finding a different way…he realized with disgust and pain it was Kill or be killed (lit. I CAN’T ACCEPT AN END LIKE THIS!).The point of his “I’m disappointed and i want to destroy humanity” in chapter 131 i always read it as a massive coping from his side, where he is trying to regress himself into a kid to force himself into continuing what he knows is a cruel and unfair genocide….that still he is forced to do despite already having forgiven humanity and knowing none of them truly deserve it.It was both the point of Grisha’s original flashback and marley arc, showing eren understood and is not holding grudges…he is just a desperated guy without no other ways left, and by that point he is focussing on it by using the dream of freedom to not lose that focus.going “ i’m bored and i want to kill them all” is as ooc as 139
giw
>>287732648no fuck you faggot, Isayama should rewrite the ending to reedem himself
>>287739870>Ymir loving her rapistthat is not a problem, women universally love rapists and murderers, specially so if they have high status like a King or similar kek
>>287745998It was related because the Rumbling genocide would be so absolute that Paradis would only collapse to infighting many, many years down the line. And even then it'd still count as their people surviving. All Empires fall. The problem is that Isayama wrote the entire rest of the world as basically Nazis with every single civvie being as Nazi as their leaders. It's so fucked up that the Rumbling is shown in a bad light. There's several layers of bad writing here. The avengers shit and Eren being half-assed is bad writing, but its also bad writing to portray the world as so ridiculously extreme and then portray Eren as some sort of Anakin figure where he takes a dark path.
>>287744957>What would you have the author of SnK do then?Donate his SnK earnings to Hamas and Hezbollah to apologize for the garbage he wrote.
>>287733914Only if he kills himself at the end that or he becomes a hobo that no one respects, his actions should not have a personal reward for him.
So he essentially got strongarmed by his editor and his publisher to change the story right?
>>287753823Pressure from the west
>>287753823>>287753853Keep dreaming "muh eternal champion" fags. Anyone who has read more than one story in their life understood Eren was going to do a heel turn the whole time. Isayama just chickened out on having the heroes stop him as a completely unforgivable criminal and tried to insert the whole "actually I committed genocide for my Zero Requiem plan not because I was a twat! Please be sad for me."
>>287732756Yeah. The original plan was that the heroes would stop him (though too late to save a shit ton of people) and that would be that. A kinda dark ending that leaves the future uncertain and difficult, butt still with some hope that out of the rubble they can build a world that won't create another Eren Yaeger. What Isayama did was insert the Watchmen "I allowed you to stop me as part of my master plan!" justification onto Eren to try and make him have some sort of redeeming quality instead of just being a psycho who tried to destroy the world and failed.
>>287732219It's still a lot better than CSM's ending
>>287754107Well the skeleton of the ending he originally planned is still there, it was only ruined by having to bolt the forgiveness for Eren on top of it. So while shit it still has the coherent narrative through line of an actual ending. CSM on the other hand didn't end. Fujimoto just said "I don't care anymore, I quit." and wrote "And eventually they were rescued by oh..lets say.. Moe" mid-fight.
>>287748894Well, it pretty common for characters and stories to expand outside of the author's original scope. Which is no surprise why a lot of narratives can't stick the landing.
>>287733914>On top of that he witnesses Paradis destroying itself in a civil war because they no longer have a common enemy to unite>Oh boy, we killed the rest of the world that wanted to kill us. We're also a homogeneous society. Let's start killing each other for no reason and start a civil war that wipes out the entire country, even though that's never happened before!
>>287745652>>287751085So what I'm getting out of this is that SnK was an Israel-Palestine analogy.
>>287754107No its not lmaoSnK will always wear the crown of "Worst Ending Ever"
>>287753853I don't think so. If anything I feel like the West would embrace an "irredeemable" Eren more. He just got scared of his story being bold, that's all. He also wrote it badly because even if he committed, Eren was in the right. Isayama had too good of a general idea, and he simply wasn't a skilled writer enough to put it to page. And any writer who changes things based on reception is a sellout and creatively bankrupt, sorry. It's not even a question of marketability, the story was already popular and he could have ended it any way he wanted and it'd have made bank.
>>287754855It really depends on your PoV. SnK's ending hurts more because you can see the phantom of a good story haunting that garbage we got. CSM part 2 is like a stream of consciousness of different pointless shit until Fujimoto gets bored and pulls the plug. I think objectively the second one is worse, but people had already given up on the work.
>>287733914Yes retard that is what was supposed to happen, they would try and fail to stop the rumbling. That some war may happen after it is a mute point, his fight was for eldians to have a future.
>>287748894When he started the manga he was really young and writing his first serialized work and had no idea it would become so popular. After it blew up he started expanding the story so that it was much longer than what he originally envisioned, so probably there was a lot of trying to make early ideas still fit into the story which had become much larger in scope. I think it has less to do with "pleasing fans" and more just getting overwhelmed with all the various plot threads and character bloat and trying to wrap it up somehow. Personally I think (speculation only) that a lot of the later stuff like Gabi & co, the 9 titans thing, Kiyomi/Hizuru were made up as he went along, while he likely had the idea of the rumbling from the start, but the circumstances around it evolved over time.It would be interesting to see how the story went if it hadn't become a megahit and was a lot shorter.
>>287753853If it was pressure it's the decades-long buttfucking the US did to brainwash Japan into servitude following WW2. A warlike nation low on natural resources that had to go out and conquer resource-rich lands like Manchuria and Korea, turning into pacifist pussies and a whorehouse for interest free borrowing. The west lives in Japan's head rent free, no woke whale protesting required
>>287733914That is basically the 1:1 Muv-Luv ending. Someone asks Eren if it was worth it, and he says they bought about 25 years of peace until the cycle begins again.
>>287755983It's different because Eren's situation is framed as the survival of his people. In this story, he can wipe clean the rest of the world. So even if Paradis as a civilization fell, whoever faction destroyed it would still be part of his people. And it'd clearly take a while. More than 25 years...
>>287755858>I don't know where this is coming from or what this has to do with anythingStop being facetious. You "people" shit on Midoriya and Eren for "not having sex".I’ve never seen a more pathetic, female-validation-seeking bunch.
>>287754197>eventually they were saved by…hum…MoeMy hero!
>>287756535NTA but when the author dangles these relationships before the reader's eyes and gives them an unsatisfactory conclusion, I think it's fair to be a bit upset about it. It'd be different if these things weren't alluded to at all, but that obviously isn't the case with your two examples.
>>287737705He's just refusing to admit he wanted to make a pro-genocide story where killing everyone else on the planet is the only option for them to take that isn't suicidally retarded, but backed out at basically the last second, probably due to external pressure.
>>287756984The funny part is Eren stomping 80% of humanity gave his friends long happy lives like he wanted, removed the curse, and freed Ymir, and the plot didn't allow for any alternatives besides the rumbling and hammered it down over and over that it was the only way. Also everyone cried and thanked him at the end.>Thank you Eren for killing a billion people so we didn't have to! You really were the coolest guy! Now we're going off to have some peace talks because we "saved" the world!
>>287747572Many people are saying this
>>287746921It was SO satisfying seeing Gabi kill that bitch Sasha, especially after she made that irritating smug face after blowing out the brains of those innocent security guards.
>>287732219I just want to know how we got from a simple premise of fighting giants with zip lines to whatever the fuck it was we ended up getting
>>287757409It was never simple, the very first titan we see in the series is a shifter, with another not long after
Did anyone actually like Eren? He was by far the worst and most obnoxious character in the entire story.
>>287759133He's the only character besides Historia I liked in the whole thing, from kid to the rumbling and has been my favorite since 2013. I love ragekino and when "weak" characters get powers other characters think they don't deserve because then they can't bully them anymore. Eren should've killed the world and the alliance.
>>287759133At first he was disliked because he was a really really ragetarded protagonist.Like some early moments were incredibly cringe from his side, like him headbutting Mikasa or him screaming like a retard in the courtroom.But the author actually addressed his ragetarness as a flaw instead of a merit, and so he got some actual reality checks across the first 3 arcs about how he needed to behave himself and have some kind of self control instead of screaming and jumping like an angry monkey.People loved him the moment he started growing as a character , which was at the end of Clash of Titans right after the first confrontation with Reiner and Berthold and than when he was actually touched by Hannes’s death.From that moment onward many (me included) started liking him , he was actually growing and improving his relationship with the rest of the cast , especially with Jean and Historia (he literally shared a whole arc with the latter).By the time chapter 70 happened it was the moment he become one of my favourite protagonists, and so he remained until the last 20 chapters.Seriously, the biggest damage of how bad he got reduced from chapter 131 onward (but i would say i never liked the reveal of chapter 121 either, making him the bad guy manipulating things gave me already the vibes of “see he is le bad and the cringevengers will be right opposing him” stuff) is that all his human growth across the previous arcs , culminating in a sad and desperated man ready go do unspeakable things to protect what little dear he has left , got ditched off .And most of the ending defenders want him to be the monodimensional bad guy because “hu he was always a screaming ragetard that wanted to destroy the world” , but which is dislike it so much because it is literally what Eren never was until the last 20 chapters.
>>287759133I found his ragetardness a breath of fresh air on a medium that has poluted by Shinji Ikari clones for a while.
>>287759133I liked him since his ragetard days.https://youtu.be/fa8M5CKsIjg8wEcZSAFrM9XpW3W
>>287759133I like him, I quite enjoy ragetards and seeing the shit they cause because of that, sure, Eren had his less than stellar moments, especially when he was unable to back up his words, but he was still pretty enjoyable for me.It certainly helped though, that the series actually acknowledged both the good and the bad of his mindset and attitude and actually had him grow up and develop from it into a more balanced character.
