>fantasy medieval worldThey created a world more idyllic and perfect than any Tolkien book.Somehow:>all aesthetics are of germanic 19th century cities and burgs, yet they have no factories because early industrialization would make people think>everyone is ultra nice, even the bloody exam between the most fearsome wizards is just a pillow fight>monopoly company is actually run by kind people struggling>there is no human-human violence addressed>there is no politics addressed>every faction is just good and trying their best>there is no corruption>no human-to-human violence>no rape>no hostility>no lies>no crime>no genocideFullmetal Alchemistad all of these themes, including a layer of complexity with the powerful nation being responsible for awful crimes against innocent people. Frieren just refuses to do it.Read Berserk or Game of Thrones, then read the Frieren manga. Why is everyone a sexless kind old sage? Is this intended for 10 years old children? FMA, One Piece, Naruto never shied away from the dark of mankind. Even Fruits Basket is darker.
>>288080144Frieren is like someone watched Berserk, then decided to make a Christmas version of it.
The story isn't about edgelord world building. For someone so invested you really missed the point.
>>288080144>Is this intended for 10 years old children?yes, that's what shonen isyou're sperging out over your own ignorance
the world is a backdrop for a story about humanity, life and death, the passage of time and the importance of human connection - the irony of course of it being told through the eyes of an Elf is part of the charm. Also half your list is fundamentally untrue and i feel like this is just a shitty bait thread that ive fallen for.
>>288080144>>there is no human-human violence addressed>>there is no politics addressedit's a story, not an encyclopediayou're only shown the parts of the world that are relevant, this is the most basic of basic storytelling concepts>Fullmetal Alchemistad all of these themespolitics and the people in power were an important part of FMA's plotline, this is not the case in Frieren which is why it's not addressedBerserk and GoT/ASOIAF are pure schlock with no redeeming qualities
Is the hiatus over?
>>288080144>>all aesthetics are of germanic 19th century cities and burgs, yet they have no factories because early industrialization would make people thinkso? it's fiction, it doesn't have to represent real lifeare you retarded?>everyone is ultra niceI can see why this would be surprising to some brown kid who has only experienced life in the third world
>>288080210Frieren is heterosexual Berserk
>>288080215It is so stupid that Himmel's party didn't go through an Eclipse-tier level of twisted madness and torture. Goodness does not thrive, are we expected to believe all these mages have these demon-level abilities and spells, yet all they use it is to jerk off each other and aura farm? Why are they not toppling states, then raping defenseless people? The most evil a human being in Frieren is was the King, because he did not like being disrespected. Why is this never elaborated, that this regime is so awful that a king will want to behead you because you didn't use the correct honorifics? One Piece wouldn't let this pass by, and One Piece is not "edgelord world building."It seems every character in Frieren would faint at the idea of people being capable of evil.They don't even have bandits in their world, ffs.I've never seen a medieval thing so toothless. Evil is irredeemably evil and every attempt to understand it is argued as a pointless distraction, characters who threaten each other end up being nice and buying each other candy. Everyone is kind and sweet and goodhearted.>>288080215One Piece has more mature worldbuilding than this, and it is colorful and silly as it gets. Frieren is afraid to even have criminals, because people would think too much on the ethics. It is very stupid that these powerful mages won't use their spells to do copious amount of murder, rape and theft, while the good elves are tra-la-la hopping around like it is all a big vacation.Shonen doesn't have to be dumb. One Piece and Naruto have all of this, Frieren is afraid to ask, 'what if people do evil too'.
>>288080404There's no evil in the world because everyone is white. >OP bab filtered by good writingShocker.
>Friereddit
>>288080387Maybe I'm the fucking problem, because I watch the entire Himmel (who is basically Griffith, by the way) x Frieren thing, and is he so emasculated? In any darker setting, he'd basically watch as Frieren is tortured and killed. And I'm not talking Berserk dark, I'm talking Naruto-dark.>>288080355>I can see why this would be surprising to some brown kid who has only experienced life in the third worldI'm american.>>288080282>Also half your list is fundamentally untrue and i feel like this is just a shitty bait thread that ive fallen for.What exactly is fundamentally untrue? Nothing I stated was inaccurate.Every thing that is too dark is just brushed over and ignored, like the fact the pointless First Class certificate test had people being killed by monsters, and no one did anything.They just forgot about it because it'd be uncomfortable.
>>288080387It's not homosexual, you just didn't understand it well.
>>288080387It feels like a parody of Berserk purposefully avoiding everything dark, to tongue-in-cheek extents.
>>288080144>Worldbuilding must have rape>Worldbuilding must have genocide>Worldbuilding must have grimdarkThat’s just not the kind of story Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End is trying to tell. In fact there being so little dark elements makes it more impactful when there is, like when when the demon child killed the human family that tried raising it to be a good person thus revealing to the audience that demons are inherently evil. If that happened constantly it there wouldn’t be any room for characters to be autistically awkdorable.
>>288080144not everything has to be about world building retardthe world doesnt matter here, this is a study of character
>>288080530Ubel kills a guy in a flashback, then tries to do it again repeatedly. Deken and fuckin pimp coat mage guy (insert german name here) are killers albeit off screen. So that's your human on human violence for starters. There's generally little hostility the gang run in to because your average peasant isnt going to start shit against an elf and a guy carrying an axe the size of him, especially when they're generally non hostile themselves. You continually compare this to Berserk (good but unrelated) and Game of Thrones (dogshit) like it is some kind of gotcha and it makes fuck all sense. You may as well compare it to Initial D at this point.
>>288080404One Piece has so much rape actually that it would put Berserk to shame if it was a seinen and the author could go all out. An entire flashback revolves around a women being kidnapped, raped to death and catching aids all toegether, kek
>>288080144Not defending Frieren because it sucks, but>Even Fruits Basket is darkerobviously. The main gimmick in that series is a stand in for social isolation stemming from domestic abuse related trauma. Being dark comes with the subject matter.
>>288080144>good worldbuilding>hero's party>demon lordyeah no. the only reason this was popular because of some strange judeo christian grift.
>>288080144I wouldn't say it has shit world building. Because that would imply it has world building at all.
>>288080144>I don't actually read anything: the post
>>288080144>Berserk>circular city.pngWhy would I read native isekai?
>>288081228>>Worldbuilding must have rape>>Worldbuilding must have genocide>>Worldbuilding must have grimdarkA story about humans needs to have humans acting like humans. And humans are fucking despicable demons, all of them. Humans would make the demons look good, because humans would rape and kill and see no problem with it. The demons just do their thing in Frieren, a human would slaughter the same number as demons, then justify why they did it was right.But of course, having cute elf and cute little couple of uptight bitch and emasculated man dealing with corrupt officials, rapists and tax policy would be too complicated.Frieren herself is too powerful, and any realistic worldbuilding would already have an army of assassin coming for her head, then doing unspeakable things with her party members.The fact that the worst thing a priest does in Frieren is like drinking a lot just shows how toothless it is, it is very much afraid of being realistic.But the darkness is in the mind of the audience.
>>288080144>Unable to understand FrierenOP, it's not that deep. You're overthinking it.
>>288080144>muh world buildingwhen will you idiots realize that a world exists for its story, not the other way around
>>288080144>“What was Aragorn’s tax policy?” - the post
>>288080144You think One Piece has peak world building? Then explain Goroseis tax policy nigga
>>288082422The awful worldbuilding harms the story being told, though.>there aren't stakes for anything>there are no evil characters>there are no institutions invested in any purpose>everything has to be a misunderstanding>no systemic discrimination will exist>no wrongdoing needs to be made right>the hero's party just came about, saved the world, got some statues, then didn't do anything meaningful with their success>none were upset by the seeming futility of their sacrifices>everyone just accepts Frieren fucks off for a few centuries because we can't have people acting petty>the only concept of evil in the entire story is the first rank mage guy sobbing about how evil he is, except he doesn't even die or we'd have to wrestle with the concept of death in this children's animeThere is something called necessary worldbuilding. I do not want the authors to give me a lore book, because they are shit at writing and the lore would suck, what I demand is some weights and stakes to the whole thing, something to exist that the characters must pursue.The funny thing is the Boshaft joke, where Frieren subvert it by making that the spirit that people spend their lives seeking is actually bad.
>>288080144If you would read the manga, you wouldn't make this thread.
>>288082600One Piece has a very believable and realistic world.>Satan secretly controls the world>all elites are semitic stereotypes or those who sold their souls to them>ugly people are usually evil>good did not triumph, and doing good gets you punished more often than not>law enforcement is ultimately not about protecting people, but protecting the powerful>the rich and mighty can do whatever they want>you will own nothing and you will be happyOne can easily infer from the worldbuilding of One Piece that it is a story about changing the world and breaking the satanic empire's power.Now compare it to Frieren or Dragon Ball, where there is nothing to value to be acquired and nothing to be done. What would you even do if you wanted to have a wish fulfilled in these worlds? Everyone is nice, you can fulfill all your needs easily, and everything is pretty and cute.
>>288082640I read some episodes, it is the anime except with the expensive presentation of music and art direction to make it watchable.Without all the presentation value and budget, Frieren is just not worth reading because the story is half the time inconsequential.You can skip 3/4 of it and still know what is happening.
>muh stakesHave a salad you fat fuck.
>>288082691I agree, I was just making a joke. I just dont think Frieren is that type of show you know. Oda clearly takes pride on his worldbuilding and fantasy setting. Frieren not so much
There are some corrupt politicians appearing in S3.
>>288080144Since you cited ASOIAF, think of the Mountain.To know if your world is authentic, the Mountain needs to be able to exist in it:>immense and powerful guy who shoved his little brother's face in the fire because he wanted his toy>became armed as a knight a year later, with honor>become henchman of a lord paramount that acts like a scheming mafia lord and does all the dirty work for that lord>ordered to start a sack in a city with 50 thousand people>kill the heir's children as ordered by your boss, then rape her then kill her>years later, ordered to start sacking the towns of innocent peasants while disguised, to put pressure on the new royal first minister and make him fluke because the first minister's wife randomly kidnapped the Mountain's boss's son>years later, chosen to be the champion of the boss's daughter because the boss's heroic son supposedly murdered his corrupt nephew who tortures women>defending that hero is a charismatic good guy who wields a spear>the Mountain defeats the good guy, then crushes his head while everyone watches>the hero is then sentenced to be beheaded, all his tricks exhaustedThe Mountain exists in Berserk. The Mountain exists in One Piece. The Mountain can't exist in Frieren, because no evil super rapist hyper violent henchman autist could exist. He'd have to be a demon, and demons are only man-eating monsters who lie to get ahead.
>>288082267Are you jewish or lgbt? Because if you are that explains where this “I need muh depressing malevolence” comes from since both jews and lgbt are addicted to mentally hurting themselves through violent art.
This thread smells like cheap vodka and broken sewer pipes. I think OP is projecting.
>>288083004>depressing malevolenceDepressing malevolence is what makes goodness heroic. Even Lord of the Rings, which is considered very idyllic in its world, is profoundly melancholic, and all good that is achieved in that come through immense sacrifice.Frieren just isn't that. Why is Himmel a hero, because he helped people here and there, like everybody else? Even the supposed evil Frieren that is the elf wizard is some silly goose who gets headpats. You don't imagine Tywin Lannister, the cruel powerhungry efficient and evil demon lord, getting humiliated like this. Frieren, on the other hand, has no gravitas because evil doesn't feel evil, and good is hollow.Himmel is not more of a hero than any other character, and what use is being a hero in a world where humanity is good?He is certainly not a hero for those who got beheaded for disrespecting the King, but the story does not want to have that conversation.Frieren and her heroes are just defenders of the status quo. At least this is not Vinland Saga, where the heroes are outright cuckolds for slave mentality.How would Frieren address the threat of Pain from Naruto? Pain is not a demon. Pain is a true hero, and he is as revered as Himmel is, among the people he protects. But Pain fights people, the heroes of the story, despite being the great hero and savior of the Hidden Rain village.
>>288083095>I think OP is projecting.That much is obvious.>A story about humans needs to have humans acting like humans. And humans are fucking despicable demons, all of them. Humans would make the demons look good, because humans would rape and kill and see no problem with it.
>>288083095Eastern European fiction is what is missing in Frieren, ironically.Where is the Chekhov, the Tolstoi, the Bulgákov?Himmel The Hero reminds a lot of Michkin from The Idiot, that is a Dostoyevsky book. He is also a simp for an indifferent woman who just makes him hurt, but The Idiot is realistic, and the simp ends up near dead, and the woman he simped for never even thought about him, and ends up murdered
>>288080144Wasn't there a massacre of nobles prior to the start of the series? Frieren's world feels barebones because a lot of shit happened in the past.
Frieren writing sucks because everything is told in flashback sob stories. It only works when Frieren is reminiscing about her dead wife trope. Can they finally show demon niggers doing shit instead of iuuuu they raped my setpiece :(((
>>288083438It is a world recovering from the Demon Lord war, but it is awfully delivered. It looks like inner city Japan there, everything is tidy and nice and working, you can even have villages in the dangerous northern plateaus, instead of having it either completely depopulated or be a Wild West.When society breaks down due to attacks by demons, some humans should have exploited the opportunity to show the demons that humans can also do very dirty and evil things, that would make the hero question if defending them is even worth it.
>>288080144You expect too much from a basic-ass SoL that got popular on accident
>>288083304We’re still exploring Himmel’s character through the lens of Frieren’s memories and his impact on the world decades after his death. And Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End does have quite a lot of evil. Our main cast are all orphans because of either war or demons. We’ve seen entire villages destroyed in several episodes. The impact evil has in the Worldbuilding is more subtle but nonetheless still there.
>>288080404>they don't even have bandits in their worldOh-oh, someone did a speedwatching!
>>288080404>>288083699Our goth queen Übel was introduced as killing many bandits.
>>288083651>expect too muchlmao, OP is complaining a show isn't grimdark and EDGY SUFFERING enough for him. When you use a retard OP to proxy-complain, you also sound retarded by proxy. >OP: "this is not wicked and nihilistic with a sense of humor. Also it needs gay sex" You: "omg so true I agree" (???)
I don't care.Post cute elves.
>>288080144That's not the point of the storyIt's shit on purpose You didn't understand it It's le deep and about human emotions and time or whatever
>>288080144>Even Fruits Basket is darkerFruits Basket is darker than most of the shonen you listed.
>>288080144The word 'medieval' is a mind virus and people should stop applying it to every fantasy world they see.
>>288082267>And humans are fucking despicable demons, all of them.Gotta tone it down, man. Power corrupts, I get it, Frieren is a bit too optimistic a story to really grab you from a fantasy perspective, but like, you're laying it on a bit thick.
>>288083850You retarded disingenuous faggot.
>>288084078Darker than which ones?
back in my time we call it the "slice of life" genre. they are just a wholesome comfy manga that you can turn your brain off and relax reading them. if you want blood and gore and human scumbaggery you can switch to "dark fantasy"
>>288084293I mean, it is definitely darker than One Piece. One Piece having some ridiculously dark stuff in like, a dozen chapters out of thousands isn't that big a deal. Plus, it is over the top stuff for the most part. I'd say it is darker than FMA in a lot of ways too. I don't know dick about Naruto.
>>288080144Frieren is an exploration of what the world could be like if it was made up entirely of white people. Demons represent jews and brownoids and kill, destroy and ruin everything they can simply because it is their nature. Frieren teaches us that if we want an idealic world, we too must destroy the demons.
>>288082877>while disguisedDisguised as what? A siege tower?How do you disguise an 8 footer?
>she walks a lot>her legs are sturdyif that's not worldbuilding, I don't know what is.
>>288084527Her legs are sooooo cuuuuuuute! I love how tiny yet refined they are. She’s just a cute little elf lady with athletic muscles on her legs that look so lean you could make beef jerky out of them! Yummy!
>>288084364Idk. You gets insane tonal whiplash with one piece. You go from silly adventure fagging to mass ethnic cleansing and genocide to rape and child experimentation to cannibalism and back to silly adventures again. Technically its not a manga that keeps a tone throughout the story. It does go pretty crazy dark fairly often
>>288084044Saying "darkness is the absence of light" in a mocking tone doesn't make it any less of a truth. Worldbuilding is pointless in Frieren, it's not a fucking isekai.
>>288082267>humans would rape and kill and see no problem with itMaybe you wouldn't see a problem but I would.
>>288080214This.
>>288080144All three characters in pic related are war orphans
>we don't spend entire scenes to show characters pissing and defecating behind a bushYou know what, I agree with OP. We are missing important world building.
what's the point of worldbuilding?
>>288082267>A story about humans needs to have humans acting like humans. And humans are fucking despicable demons, all of them.here's your realistic grimdark setting bro
>>288085844Provide stakes, something Frieren doesn't have, so it can fullstop the non-journey to the North so the characters can have a stupid Fern is upset over nothing again.In a realistic scenario, Fern would have reasons to be upset.
>>288086094>went right back to killing each other the next dayBehead every politician and start over.
>>288080144>all aesthetics are german 19th century yet no factorynot all aesthetics are german or 19th century>everyone is ultra nice, even the bloody exam is just a pillow fightexcept for stark's father and the king that wanted to kill himmel party for a slight, people get killed by demons inside the bubble>monopoly company is run by kind people strugglingso what ?>there is no human-human violence addressedit's implied there were and still might be wars>there is no politics addressedyes there is>no human-to-human violenceking wants to kill himmel for slight, ubel entraps criminals and then kills them>no rape>no hostility>no lies>no crime>no genocideis op mentally handicapped or is he baiting to get (you)s ?
>>288084800Yes, It's shit on purpose, therefore it's good.
Frierensissies...
>>288080144>no human-to-human violenceLiterally the reason Fern is an oprhan.
>>288080144Sure, but you missed the part where nobody gives a single flying fuck about worldbuilding, other than some mentally ill people around, but nobody care about them either.
>>288087098For whatever reason Fern never cared about that when her crusade should be against humans and not demons.
>>288080144They're traveling to the north, not the south. If you want violent, rapey low IQ niggers, they'd have to go south, just like in our real world. But up north everyone is white and thus good.
>>288081598>judeo christian
>>288087238Fern doesn't actually care about demons, or in fact anything.
>>288080144>wall of reddit tier text Don't care op. It makes lefties seethe so it's based
>>288085756I got some world building for ya>Cut to young Fern at a table, staring listlessly at her bowl of soup>Zoom out to reveal the countless stacks of stained bowls surrounding her>Finish the zoom by revealing Frieren, who is 300lbs heavier, resting on the table, and is muttering to herself about different kinds of food>"Mistress Frieren, maybe we should-">*WWWHHHOOOAAARRRBPBLBPBLPSSSHHHHH-PTT-PTTH>"Sheesh"
>>288080617Just like the zoomies like it. Only aura and wholesome chungus moments.
>>288080617>Berserker fan watching his second medieval anime: "This is a parody of Berserker"lol
>>288088065To be fair every character in this is just a bland cardboard, except Sein, will we see him anytime soon?
>>288082422This is wrong though.The characters and the story enhance the world, not make it. A good world can tell its own compelling story all by itself. There are even a handful of anime with worlds that tell a story better than the story the anime itself tells.
>>288082600>Then explain Goroseis tax policy niggaLiterally explained in the story lol
>>288083741>picrelCounterpoint: green hair
Have not watched the show but aren't mages in that really powerful?Is there a lore reason why magic users have not seized power and rule as god-kings?
>>288080144>FRIEREN HAS AWFUL WORLDBUILDINGWhen it comes to anime, you gotta lower your standards. We're talking about a medium where JoJo shows could get 9/10 here FFS!
>>288080144kill yourself op. good worldbuilding≠complex worldbuilding; zoomers really are more retarded than the old anime community
>When the worldbuilding doesn't have many complex names and locations with different political and economic systems and is only a background with creative elements where the series about characters interacting makes the characters interactevery day, frieren is more similar to eva, a literacy test
>>288090067Other classes are powerful too. The nobles are backed by strong armies.
>>288090067This is a flaw common in fiction. The world works just like ours even though there is magic.If you think about it for 5 seconds any world with powerful magic users would lead to the magic users to either:Ruling the world/nationsBeing controlled extremely hardOr being hunted downThe Wheel of Time is a good example where it is done right and has all three of them.>>288090341>other classesJust another type of magic users>nobles have armiesThat's the thing the nobles should be the magic users.
>>288080214asking for a hint of relatable realism is not asking for edge, gaylord
>>288080144>the most defining charateristic of 2/3 of your main cast is a dead pan face, this isn't even a joke>The extend of their character goes as far as: Frieren likes spells and Himmel, le mimic/late to wake up joke, food, and getting irrationally angry at the one man/matress of the show>power system that one day works as a DnD magic system with established spells across eons, the next day some spells go out of fashion so we can have a shocking moment >world has a bunch of heroes, while excluding demons the greatest threat to a random village is a wolf pack>the MC's main goal was stated to learn to appreciate her current companions, has barely any meaningful connection/interactions with them past the first couple episodes, fingers herself to Himmel 24/7 instead.It's just a cozy adventure where people beat their meat to the elf or the fat bitch, nothing more or less.
>>288089133>>288082610this is the kind of statements that only make sense if you think stories and world building is just reading through wikipedia
>>288083850>When you use a retard OP to proxy-complainForgot to ask you the rules, cocksucking nerd. I say whatever the fuck I want and this anime is trash
>>288090544>Realism>Really just means modern politics
>>28809121390% of modern politics are not modern, retard
>>288080144>anon mad that the fantasy manga about a tourist roaming around the country doing tourist stuff isn't focused on the local politics and dramaback to work on winds of winter, george
>>288080144I think Frieren has really shitty worldbuilding as well, but at least half your points aren't true as of the latest manga chapter.
>reddit spacing daily bait thread>it worksKino
>you can't just have a nice idyllic fantasy world!Why not?
>>288081228>Worldbuilding must have genocideFrieren featured two major genocides - elf extermination and the final Demon Kings' campain after which the humanity territory is still 1/3rd of what it was.>Worldbuilding must have grimdarkThe world is still plagued by fucking horned terminators that feel no pity, or remorse, or fear, and unlike your average orcs, missing just one of them leveling up is potentially enough to get another human extinction event (indeed, exactly that situation is currently looming). That's not counting "normal" monsters. That's not counting human intrigue and warfare, which start featuring prominently from the arc that will form S3. OP is a filthy anime-only shitposter. But Frieren does have a worldbuilding problem. It attempts to have a comfy relaxed world and apocalyptic background threats at the same time. So villages even in the worst hellholes, where human settlements are routinely wiped out, even on-screen, often have no walls. And good boi Himmel can take his time searching for a missing cat, even as the demon army wages a no-prisoners-only-food campaign of extermination, explicitly wiping out whole countries.
>>288083095>t. assmad pole
>>288084411
>>288087745>But up north everyone is white and thus good.
youre thinking about game of thrones
>>288080144The humans are still recovering from being nearly wiped out by the demons. They are a third of what they used to be. That massively impacts human interactions and relationships in their world.>>there is no human-human violence addressed??>>there is no politics addressed??>>every faction is just good and trying their best>>there is no corruption???
>>288081326>You may as well compare it to Initial D at this point.Initial D has many of the same worldbuilding issues as Frieren. You cinstantly hear about things like Project D and all those awful ego-driven street racers from rival teams, but whenever someone crashes, they are treated with the deepest compassion and kindness.Nobody gets sliced up by car parts and nobody even rapes Natsuki or Itsuki.It's a silly, childish world, where humans don't act like humans.
Hi my name is OP and I've never played Dragon Quest
>>288091329for me it's the daily Frieren worship thread
How do the nobles declare divine right to rule in this setting?
>>288080144best part of Frieren's worldbuilding is it btfo'ing all the troonimai troons during 2023 AotY poll
>>288081789>If only you knew how bad things really are
>>288092101Moron. Acting like a teenager.
>>288080144>The entire premise is reflecting on the past and slice-of-life wandering>"mUh dEeP lOrE!"Mouth-breather.
>>288080144LotR had both ~19 century english countryside and early medieval europe in the same setting
>>288080144>>>/b/
>>288080144It's like it was written by an AI
>>288093400almost every criticism of frieren ive seen on here is dumb as fuck. They don’t even understand what they’re watching
>>288080144there are no nigs there and jews are treated as a different species, of course all humans are nice and friendly
>>288080144They also have fancy parfaits in a small town on the dangerous Northern Plateau for some inexplicable reason.But you're correct, I've been thinking the same things when watching the show. No conflicts between humans, the only dangers are demons, dragons, and the weather.While in the beginning it felt interesting because it was simply different - you get tired of the same grimdark shit after while - in the end it started to feel like lazy and superficial worldbuilding.But it makes sense, a boring world is perfect for boring characters being boring.
>>288080144I just watched it because it was weird to have a #1 in mal that was not a shitty battle shonen, the anime was ok and kinda average just like to the stuff I watch, but it surprises me that normies love it so much
>>288083004Kill yourself, Christcuck
>>288080144"worldbuilding" is fucking trash the only people who care about "worldbuilding" are overly-indulged autistic man-children
>>288094182>it was weird to have a #1 in mal that was not a shitty battle shonen,If Frireren is not a battle shonen, then neither is Dragonball.
>>288094392if frieren is battle shonen madoka magica is a battle shonen
>>288080144american post. Only they get this asshurt when people act nice in fiction
>>288080144You're retarded on so many levels that it's actually impressive.LOTR is literally a post-apocalyptic world, where half the continent is gone and most of the landmass is barren. The population has been utter decimated, most of the kingdoms are gone or have been reduced to almost nothing, most of the races are either dying out or leaving the world, and there is a supernatural evil that's on the verge of taking over the world.Aside from The Shire, which is painted as somewhat idyllic, but still rife with petty bickering, gossip and theft, every other good thing in LOTR is something that's a relic of long gone era.Also, Naruto? How fucking gay are you?
>>288090067There is no explanation why these mages don't just kill and rape everything in sight.
>>288094409The only thing that stops Magical Girl Squadron shows from being battle shonen is that they are not shonen.
>>288092216Stop asking obvious questions.
>>288080144>What was Hero Himmel's tax policy?lol
>>288094545frieren is a magical girl, literally
>>288094619True. Though there really is a lot of SOL. Not that I mind, I fucking hate the battle shonen parts of Frieren. But yeah, magical girl shows are often battle focused. Especially the ones with a team fighting evil rather than like Little Witch Sally or whatever.
>>288080530>And I'm not talkingABOUT EDO TENSEI UCHIHA MADARA
>>288094454No, LOTR states multiple time that is the END of an Era, not the end of the world. Is simply that old things have run their course and the Age of Men is upon them.
>>288081228>That’s just not the kind of story Frieren: Beyond Journey’s End is trying to tell.then what, that demons are all evil and we shouldn't listen to them no matter hwatlike demons exist irl smdh
When you don't>why doesn't Fern hold any grievance with mankind>why doesn't Stark>why Serie accepts fucking headpats, thus duminishing any villain aspect to her. She owns all power on Earth, she should eant to take over and become a goddess for them>why is the dangerous old fox imperial mage actually a nice old man who goes through a violent test to see his wife's grave>who is checking if a travelling party has one of the 45 rank 1 mages so they are allowed to travel (no one)>who even makes those rules and why should we obey them>why a post-apocalyptic demon-infested North has villages with no walls, nice people who make the Shire look grimdark>supposedly, it is cold in the North and full with demons. Why aren't there coal mines, refugees fleeing by the millions to the south and causing political instability>why doesn't the Norm Company enforce their monopoly over roads and logistics, thry don't even rebuild bridges>why aren't the mages simply taking over power from weak kings who draw their power from nothing, by simple mandate of might makes right?>why are there cute shops and cafeterias in wartorn lands>where is all the crime (no, Ubel mentioning she killed some criminals doesn't count. Naruto had ninjas dealing with nukenins in episode 4, One Piece and FMA in episode 1. Frieren runs away from the implicatiom that magic can be used to overpower and lord over the innocent)>where is all the murder>why even have feudalism whem everything is gay and safe and an inner Japan city. Feudalism is an extreme economic system when the only safety people find is in the land of warlords, thus everyone is an indentured helpless serf>why sre there fancy balls in the North while demons are still warring, aren't the people starving and suffering. Why are nobles holding balls for their dead sons who just died in war a few days beforeI can go on.This is not worldbuilding, it is basic action and reaction. The world of Frieren is an MMORPG, static.
>>288080144The big issue with Frieren's worldbuilding is that everything falls apart with close inspection. The magic stops making sense, the enemies stop making sense, the world stops making sense. Is the type of story that demands of you to not look closer. That said, I don't think Frieren is bad, just shallow.
>>288094838thisthey want to pretend that frieren is some deep anime and get mad when something like cholo leveling beats it in some anime poll like cholo leveling isn't deep enough to warrant winning when frieren actually has the same level of depth
>>288094838This. FMA did the homework of being authentic to the alchemy premisse. Frieren just ignores the consequence.It is medieval fantasy by people who only played MMORPGs.Can't wait for the small town date near the Demonlord castle.
As soon as you hear words like "demon lord", "party", "hero" you can expect shit writing and should not be surprised about it.
>>288094028It has to be the same retards trying to prove Frieren "wrong" about demons, when their whole design in this story to just be predators.
>>288094940so you're admitting this is a really simple story that isn't all that deep
>>288094812>why Serie accepts fucking headpats, thus duminishing any villain aspect to her.The same reason you allow your cat to rub all over you.>She owns all power on Earth, she should eant to take over and become a goddess for themWho said she was not the elf who pretended to be the Goddess of Creation?Some of your complaints are valid, but this is stupid. The story specifically touches the idea that truly powerful and dangerous people don't need visible signs of status. Even demons get it. Macht/Solitar have no problem whatsoever acting humble, because their power lies in their magic, not in deference of others. >why is the dangerous old fox imperial mage actually a nice old man who goes through a violent test to see his wife's graveAddressed later. He lied. He actually needed the Serie's reward.
>>288080144>whaaaaa why isn't this fantasy hyper realistic instead of focusing on doing it's own thingFucking idiot.
>>288094812Some of your grievances hold up. It is just wedged in a bunch of nonsense half the time.
>>288094812The author doesn't care, that's all really.He just needed a canvas for his main story, he's not willing or capable of fleshing the world out more than is needed for his central story.And he just seems to adjust the world to whatever he needs for the story, and when he has no need for war between human factions then everyone is just nice to each other.Too bad he is as capable of writing good characters as he is capable of deep worldbuilding.Everything about this is so superficial, static, and bland that the only interesting parts are battles when for a short while we are not reminded of how boring everyone is.
>>288094940Demons as a concept are, at best, inconsistent. For example, they are aware of complex concepts enough to try and do a political ploy tricking educated humans but somehow don't know what a "father" is.
>>288094940>It has to be the same retards trying to prove Frieren "wrong" about demonsThere is no need to prove anything. Frieren is observably wrong about demons. Sometimes hilariously so, like when in S2 she blathers about how all demons only learn a single spell and flight does not count, just as demon soldiers spam generic beams and shields.
>>288080144Almost all fantasy manga with medieval world settings have awful world buildings. Blame the authors for not doing their research.
>>288095073You don't really need to be "good", you only need that the internal logic of your world remains consistent enough for the reader to hold the willing suspension of disbelief.
World building is like a disney parody ffs.
>>288095073I don't want the world to be a medieval epic and accurate, just for it to be authentic. Lord of the Rings is authentic, you don't see a nice village with a shop in the middle of Mordor.The world of Frieren is an MMORPG, and these flaws will catch up to it.
Notice how it's always the Frieren threads that are always full of the most retarded bait?The most bad-faith, misanthropic garbage?>muh world building isn't anti humanity enough>muh story is too anti evil, that's racist>muh story is "unrealistic" and "bad" because it's incompatible with the wretched worldview that those people want you to hold>muh story is too black and white, don't they know that in reality everyone is morally complicated and good guys are actually evil and bad guys good, sometimes?>don't they know that humans are the real monsters that rape and kill uncontrollably?I wonder what about frieren specifically attracts this absolutely organic discussion...
>>288095748Because Frieren has the moral depth of Barney The Dinossaur yet it isn't sincere about it.
>>288095884>moral depthdon't speak about morality as if you have any clue about it
Watching/reading generic jap fantasy slop is really really hard after reading some actually good fantasy/scifi books
>>288095991>actually good fantasy/scifi bookssuch as?
>>288096026Game Of Thrones
>>288095748They're just retarded. Popular = bad in the mind of a retard
>>288096033O I am laffing.
>>288095916>be stupid teenager>watch Himmel The Hero flashbacks>decide to stop a knife attack in a train rather than follow protocol and steer awayFrieren almost killed this young man.In real life, every good action is punished
>>288095916>mad man goes on a knife rampage>run away and most likely survive, incident goes with no casualties besides the first victim>try to stop the knife man and pretty much guarantee that the knife man will make a second victimThe Hero is a sacrifician archetype. Why sacridice yourself for others? Why make this knife incident likely far more brutal than it had to be?
the virgin "let's discuss Frieren's worldbuilding"the chad "FUCK FRIEREN... IN THE ASS"
>>288096026For fantasy:Cosmere universe/Sanderson>>288096033DiscworldBook of the New Sun and everything by Wolfe, Wizard Knight for an actually good isekai bookTolkien ofcWheel of Time (even with it's faults the worlbuilding is amazing)Witcher series (the english translations suck though)And I don't know, Realm of the Elderlings by Robin Hobb I guess, I could go on.More of a scifi man myself bit it's off topic
>>288095884>Frieren has the moral depth of Barney The Dinossaur
>wah wah this fantasy world must be SICK AND DEGENERATE
>>288096479OP focused too much on those aspects bit the real "must" is consistency.
>>288096507Is it internally inconsistent?
>>288096245this ia the most basic taste ever. also frieren is basically a light SoL, these are more dense, different stuff
>>288096856Whenever you start asking the "how" or the "why" of anything in Frieren you find an inconsistency. You can recognize this and still don't take it like a personal attack.
>>288096178first world bros... our response?
>>288096907>Whenever you start asking the "how" or the "why" of anything in Frieren you find an inconsistency.such as?
>>288096900Frieren is the poor man's Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou.
>>288080210I don't think anyone gets their arm cut off in Frieren?
>>288096900Yeah I know. Maybe just as I've grown older I've lost the taste for loght SoL stuff.
culo Frieren
>>288096947I'm too lazy to point out everything, but to go with a simple core one: why are some humans super strong and others not? Is there a reason why every city doesn't have its own Stark?
>>288097037>why are some humans super strong and others notGenetics, some people are just better.
>>288096947The anti-magic stone thing for a huge example.
>>288080144Filtered
>>288087224literally I only see autistic retards care about logistics of nobody gives a shit about
>>288080291This anon gets itwhy focus on politics when the anime is about an elf who would outlast any empire
>>288097003That's fine, man. I mean, Frieren disappointed me after I read Dungeon Meshi. And that wasn't exactly LOTR either. But you evaluate a series on what it is, not what it isn't. If Frieren's emotional beats and comedy fall flat for you, it is no big deal. There's plenty of manga out there. But criticizing it for being something it isn't even pretending to be is silly.
turns out it isnt very good
>>288097130Which aspect?
>>288097083Sure, now point to me in which part of the story they say that.Also, that doesn't answer my question on why major cities don't have a permanent fighter around.
>>288097368I mean, to simplify it, it should probably be used in many situations that it was not shown to be used in. Yes, it is rare and mining it is difficult, but these are logistics issues that could be resolved for something as broadly applicable. A "no-magic" story for Stark's character is a reasonable thing to want, but introducing a stone that functions this well raises questions as to why we had not seen it before and why it did not have massive repercussions in dealings with mages throughout history.
>panoramic view of generic fantasy location that looks like any other place in the show>bland ahh name that will never be brought up again
>>288097298>criticizing it for being something it isn't even pretending to be is sillyI criticize Frieren for what it is and for what it isn't. It is an awful show presented by great music and art direction.Remove the music and direction, yoi have a mediocre story about the elf who was part of an MMORPG party with Himmel The Hero(tm), a person neither worse nor better than the average saint inhabiting this inconsequential world, and who now roams around recollecting about Himmel while going on a glorified tourism trip where nothing can harm the elf because she is the strongest thing alive, and where Himmel will be pure forever because the society he defended does not have any flaws.You call critics 3rd-worlders because they can't imagine a world where power is innocent.Sure, enjoy your demon-infested world where people just take warm baths, have Final Fantasy magic shops, and nothing matters because the elf will outage all.
>>288097454I mean, I didn't bother with the show. I read the manga. And yeah, it is a pretty low-stakes manga in an unrealistic world that is mainly concerned with some SOL stuff set in a cozy fantasy environment. The idea behind the era of peace is that Himmel's behavior changed the world at large and people are on the whole, kinder and more considerate. Not just because of his actions, but because of the legend that built up around him over time. The whole premise is the world has already been saved, after all. The addition of demons are stragglers of a dead world in order to add some drama and battles, but the core of the story is far from them ultimately. I didn't really care for Frieren, it went on hiatus and I just stopped reading after that. But it was pleasant over all. As for the 3-worlders thing, if you're OP, you've said some crazy shit in this thread that racists latch onto. Power can be innocent, especially in fiction. Sometimes, it is fun to have a goofy mage get excited about a stupid spell to flip omelets and then blast a bunch of bad guys. That's pretty much what the manga is. This is like complaining about Azumanga Daioh not showing how mean teenage girls can be to one another or how none of the boys ever put the moves on them.
>>288097454>You call critics 3rd-worlders because they can't imagine a world where power is innocent.I can imagine a world where power is innocent. With some serious suspension of disbelief I can imagine a world where power defined as fighting ability is innocent. I still criticize Frieren, because it constantly wants to have its cake and eat it too, and because it the story had been written into the hiatus corner.Most noticeably, it makes regular nods towards moral complexity, but then pull punches as soon as Frieren is actively involved. For the most noticeable example among the resolved story arcs so far, the mage exam is full of psychopaths and villains... but then the situation is resolved in a rosy-peachy fashion, when people explicilty ready to kill for the status end up not so bad after all.
>>288090067>Have not watched the show but aren't mages in that really powerful?Not really. Frieren is balanced like a videogame. Every class has their pros and cons. Mages are glass cannons and can get speed blitz'd.
>>288094978Who said it's deep? Frieren doesn't need to be GoT. Sometime it's just nice to follow along with a nice, simple story. And killing demons is good, actually.
>>288080144cant believe people watch frieren for the plot, I thought we were all just masturbating to the big fat girl
I just like the silly elf, simple as
>>288097593Your comparison of Frieren to Azumanga Daioh is masterful, and shows a level of media literacy and understanding that surpasses that of professional critics.Truly, truly, Frieren IS medieval fantasy Azumanga Daioh. And just like Azumanga Daioh is a comical short stripe for humor newspapers, Frieren is the very same. The difference between both is budget, and whenever we see a big budget and talented direction being wasted like a fine package on something so vapid, there is anger — an anger that was never there for FMA:B or even One Piece.>>288097636Correct. The mage exam is so far the worst sequence in the entire story. The other one has to be the northern plateau just being more of the same gay idyllic nonsense, when we were told it'd be dangerous.
>>288097371It just is. The show is about characters, not world explanation.>>288097411If they were more prevalent, countermeasures would have been invented. Like launching pocket sand at high speeds.
Isn't the whole point that the world is in a relatively peaceful period now since the demon lord got killed?
>>288097975Pretty much, which I mentioned here: >>288097593
please OP get a job
>>288097931>The show is about charactersThen why are two of the three main characters the dullest and least interesting characters in the entire show? Frieren could carry two cardboard cutouts of herself around with her and make them talk and it would be better.
>>288098108>>288097975Except there is a massive war in the south that kills Fern's family and never gets spoken about again because Fern having a secret desire to kill every last one of the pieces of shit who raped then killed her family would challenge the story too much, so instead we have Fern as a boring, incomprehensible doormat whose only care is that Frieren doesn't take too long.Relatively peaceful period meant 'nothing has to make sense anymore'.
>>288097923I mean, media that is simply pleasant also deserves some budget and art direction. It sells, it appeals to a broad category of people, it has enough little moments that make people emotional. The budget and art direction really sells these emotional moments to people and it works for them. Don't think of it as deception, they're not being tricked into thinking there is more depth to it. But depth doesn't correspond with emotional state. People can be happy about Himmel going out of his way to help someone in the past and the people paying it forward because of it without it being a complex thing. Ultimately, Frieren saved Shonen Sunday so I can not fault them for making something safe and comfortable. >>288097931I mean, yes, but some people would find it more interesting to see that arms race take place rather than the anti-magic stone being a plot device largely confined to one little story.
>>288098219Is Fern's seeming apathy and ability to move on a little far-fetched? Yeah, probably. Would most orphans of war devote their life to revenge on a warring state after the war is over? Not really. Fern moved on. She was deeply saddened and somewhat isolated (as we can see with her introduction), but she was young and she lived a relatively normal childhood. She put it past her with Frieren's help and she decided taking care of Frieren is what she does. Does that make her a dull character? Yeah, kind of. But I wouldn't say "it doesn't make sense anymore"
>>288098328Fern is but ONE example of a character ruined by the vapid nature of Frieren, which shies away from moral complexity.>Stark, the CowardStark's self-estimn issues are purely in his head. We never see him being humiliated, shamed, expelled and mistreated for his cowardice (as a little kid). He does not harbors any ressentment, that one little kid can do one thinf wrong, then be ruined for life.Compare Stark to Naruto, and how Naruto has an outside-inside and inside-outside to the trauma of being shunned, thus making Naruto more authentic. Stark's cowardice is just a gag, played out until the joke ceases ro be funny and the plot needs convenience. Everyone coddles Stark, tells how awesome he is and how much potential he is.Naruto had to drink expired milk and had his insecurity exploited by manipulative men from episode 1.So, Stark is a Coward until the plot demands otherwise, and everyone coddles him.>Fern, the non-characterFern fails the famous Plinkett test of pop culture, where we cannot describe her personality and character eithout discussing what she does and how she looks.Fern is a psychopath at best and a traitor to her people, at worst. And this is not even Vinland Saga, the cuckold anime.>Sein, the ???Since the story can't have anything darker than drinking and gambling moderately, there is nothing dark to his character. He wish he had joined his friend in an inconsequential quest to save a world that is saved.>Sense the Edgelord and Methode, the death of toneThe story would be better without these two.
>>288098679Yeah, I don't like Stark. He's more plot device than character. Sein isn't really dark or even intended to be dark, simply just "not the best role model". >Fern is a psychopath at best and a traitor to her people, at worst. This is overstated. Her people are at peace. You don't launch a crusade after a war is over. Do you think ever war orphan of WW2 devoted their life to killing the former Axis powers? Are those who didn't sociopaths for just living their life, going to work, doing their taxes, finding love, etc.?
99.99% of mangas have no world building. I can name in two hands how many even fucking try. In the absolute vast majority of mangas you dont even know two basic things about the planet they inhabit, countries, system or literally anything and the rest are just lazy settings that is just some moderm/90s version of Tokyo or ancient Japan. No matter what people say fantasy is fucking hard, let alone trying to design an entire worls from the ground up with factions, systems, lore etc etc. As far as shonen goes for example, theres a reason no shonen tries to replicate one piece despite it being the biggest manga of all time, its not like authors dont want to replicate it, its that they cant
>>288098863>You don't launch a crusade after a war is over. Do you think ever war orphan of WW2 devoted their life to killing the former Axis powers?Funny how we have people doing exactly that once they've fingered (or convinced themselves they've fingered) the person responsible in the manga. Anyway, Fern is another case I absolutely don't mind the concept, but the execution is ass, especially given time devoted to her. The story of an orphan who had her family raped and murdered in front of her and nearly lost will to life, slowly recovering, learing to enjoy life, and eventually, trust men is compelling on paper. But the problem that is emblematic for the series strikes: the author sets up drama, but lacks guts to deliver the payoff. Fern as he is actually portrayed is fine as a motherfucking mask, hiding colossal, crippling issues ("I fear losing loved ones, I fear merest touch of a man, I fear that no one actually loves me, I fear that Frieren only tolerates me as long as I'm useful, I fear that I'm but her pale shadow and will never be more, I fear that Stark only gives me the time of the day because of Frieren"). And to an extent, during the first batch of episodes, she is written this exact way! But the author is hesitant to explore the cracks in her facade of the team mom. Because that would create conflict in the team, make her more than an acessory to Frieren and show that Frieren is imperfect. So Fern's character is reduced to overused gags and being a colossal bitch.
>>288080144>there is no corruption>no human-to-human violence>no rape>no hostility>no lies>no crime>no genocideHave you considered that this may not really be what the story is about?
>>288099699That's a reasonable take, yeah. Fern definitely got sidelined a bit and any of the compelling stuff being set up in regards to character depth was sanded down in some capacity. But yeah, I don't think this was a plan that fell apart. I think the things you're referring to were always intended to be just... backstory. Little bits of flavor that are largely irrelevant to her role in the story (a tsundere to Stark, helper, pupil and sometimes foil to Frieren).
Standard defense of Frieren:>why are you questioning the story, this is an anime about characters>wait, don't question the charactersFrieren is the only anime that gets worse, the more you think about it. It is masterful animation, music and direction at the service of nothing.
