Even if Buu hadn't interrupted the fight, Vegeta would've beaten Goku.Vegeta was always ahead of that loser.
>db characters cant breath in spacecant they really? when was that ever shown or said?
>fight Goku let Vegeta win because he knew going SSJ3 would mindbreak him and probably make him bawl and cry (again)
>>288189567Fred said it when he destroyed Namek's core
I've been reading the Namek arc again and it's insane to think that there was a point in time when Toriyama could just write a serious story.If he wrote it now the fight between Goku and Frieza would be packed with a thousand gags.
>>288189632was he legit or was it just babbling?
Is Krillin the Legendary Super Saiyan?
>>288189684it was legit, otherwise goku would have laughed it off.
>>288189684
Enter
>fred
>>288189703Yes.yellow aura = super saiyanGTbro btw
>>288189546we wanted a GT thread
>Frieza's energy shield can fully protect him from a full power Kamehameha from super saiyan Goku>In the manga, Frieza keeps it up whenever he's fighting, becoming completely immune to Goku's attacks (the anime removed this IMPORTANT detail)>The only reason Goku challenges Frieza to a hand-to-hand combat is to get Frieza to undo that energy shieldFrieza lost because he was blinded by rage and pride. If he just kept the shield up, he would've outlasted Goku, the planet would've blown up killing Goku while Frieza would've survived. The anime kinda fucked that up THOUGH.
>>288190108Woah it bulma
>>288190176this was the weirdest power scaling moment in the whole series. Cell can just shit out things that completely dunk on all the super saiyans?
>>288190207They were cell and android 18s children.
>>288190207He doesn't seem to completely lose energy and the babies are all at full power right after they're born.
>>288190397Yup, Bejita should've died.
>>288190207That's how the series has always been.>nappa can just plant things that would've solo'd all of pre-timeskip dragon ball
>>288190397The first mention of "bejita" on 4chan is basically that post, so the redditor stands correctly.
>Roshi destroying the Moon>Piccolo jumping massive amounts of powerlevels by fusing with some shitters (twice)>Androids built by some old man on earth being as strong as the Emperor of the universe and Super Saiyans>Cell Jrs>17 being God levelWhat is the worst powerscaling moment in DB?
>>288189546Why didn't Goku break the rocks?
>>288190590>17 being God levelIs there even an explanation for this?
>>288190590When Goku lost to Bejita three times despite being more powerful.
>>288190608Rocks are superior to saiyans.
>>288190590Androids in general. They instantly eclipsed the power of the super saiyan and Lord Freeza.
>>288190590Namek arc Zenkais.It was dumb.
>>288190590>17 being God levelThis one because it gets no dramatic focus from the narrative at all. You can question stuff like the Cell Jrs, but it's still portrayed as a terrifying moment.With God level 17, it's just Toriyama not giving a fuck and not caring about how strong the characters should be by this point, so it's not even shown as something unbelievable.
>>288190397>>288190526Samefag
>>288190590Unironically the moon, even though it's practically a gag. The rest are all instances of handwaving a reason for a permanent adjustment to a character's power level to keep him relevant in the coming arc(s). But destroying the moon did not scale Roshi up or serve to keep him as a relevant, moon-level fighter against moon-level villains. It's just a one-time massive display of power that's never relevant again.
>>288190690blowing up the moon is the most seemingly wrong one in terms of how roshi compared to say, king piccolo, who had to charge up with just as much effort just to blow up a city. But that's the sort of thing that you only go "hey wait a minute that don't make sense" when you're thinking about it later.Cell Jrs laughably bullying Goku, Vegeta and Trunks, any of whom could have effortlessly mopped the floor with the lesser forms of Cell is the most immediately bizarre power scaling moment.
>>288190590Super in general is weird.They introduce Super Saiyan God and variations because the characters were already at their "mortal limit", you would expect their next enemies would be other Gods or beings with Ki similar to God Ki.But then they just introduce a bunch of mortal characters who can keep up or are stronger than Gods.Hit, Furry trio, Moro, etc.Frieza with some training, 17 with fighting poachers, Granolah/Gas just using the dragonballs being the worst offenders.Its also ridiculous that by fighting just a little Saiyans like Trunks, Gohan and Nuly get to be God level pr stronger just because they are more "talented".
>>288190690>>288190770DB Earth is different from our Earth ergo the DB moon could be drastically smaller, making the feat less impressive. It also explains why their moon is such a jobber.
>>288190824If you consider Arale canon to DB then the moon is weak and mountain size.I'm staring to think Toriyama actually thought the Moon was smaller.
>>28819059017 being in god level and orange Piccolo.
>>288190805Toyotaro's manga original nonsense is the worst. Super already introduced other universes and the gods above the gods above the gods above the one god who's been a pissant since Raditz showed up, and then he decides to walk it back and have villains who can fight our heroes who are just dudes in space.
>>288190897Its kinda lame that with a Multiversal setting and other universes still unexplored Toei and Toyo just went back to have U7 stories and antagonists after the ToP.
>>288190059This happened in the Tournament of Power.
>>288190059Kek, instant classic
>>288190954Sorry, but if GTGODS were in the ToP they would have solo it in 3 seconds.
>>288190642How would you rewrite the android arc if they need to be weaker than Freeza? I think at least the following changes would be required:>a) Trunks is weaker than Namek finale Goku>b) Freeza doesn't return, because Trunks cannot beat him (or he wouldn't be struggling against sub-Freeza androids in his timeline), OR Freeza returns but Goku beats him>c) King Cold either doesn't exist, OR comes to Earth by himself to get revenge for his son and is clearly established as weaker than 100% final form Freeza>d) Bejita either doesn't achieve Super Saiyan before the androids show up OR, like Trunks, he is weaker than Namek finale GokuIn all these cases the androids still need to be close enough to Freeza, otherwise there would be no explaining why Trunks/Bejita/Piccolo aren't able to handle them even with Goku out of commission. And I don't think you can rewrite Cell to be Freeza-level. There's simply no way to have a Freeza-level threat that Goku, Trunks, Bejita, AND Piccolo together can't handle even if you keep them all at Namek-level.
>>288189567I always thought it was pretty stupid how god level fighters couldn’t just create a shield of energy surrounding their bodies to maintain the air around them kinda like a oxygen tank.
>>288190991The humanoid androids are the problem, they were introduced being too strong.I don't think anyone has a problem with Cell's powerlevel. He is made with the data of all fighters, it makes sense that at some point he would become stronger. Maybe just fix the pacing and foreshadow Cell better.
>>288190987Where are glass, building and clock?
>>288189546SLAVEgeta sold his soul to be on par with Goku and even that was retconned into being a miserable failure.
>>288190642>Androids in general. They instantly eclipsed the power of the super saiyan and Lord Freeza.Arale appeared in the Red Ribbon Army saga as the strongest person on the planet. Androids in the Dragon Ball universe are just natural stronger than mortal beings.
Only Freeza can survive space, planetary destruction and being cut in half. Saiyans have the same durability as regular humans without their ki.
>>288191030Yeah but there are a lot of problems associated with making the androids weaker. Trunks' intro would be ruined, and his backstory would make no sense. Why wouldn't Future Vegeta, Future Piccolo, and Future Gohan have been able to defeat the androids if they were weaker than Freeza? Even if none of them ever achieved Super Saiyan, our future heroes should still be able to handle 2 androids weaker than Freeza.
>>288191271It would work if there was an explanation for how the Androids are stronger than Super Saiyans. Instead we’re just told that somehow a human scientist was able to build a cyborg that rivals the most feared legendary warrior across galaxies.
>>288189822
>>288191381>is concious, awake, and tanking super saiyan-level hitsYyyyyyyyyyup.
>>288191381Those kicks would've atomized future kekhan btw.
>>288190991>Trunks is weaker than namek finale Goku(I wouldn't even call this a change, more like the way it was originally written before the android saga got rewritten like 5 times. Sure he killed Frieza pretty easily but I think it's clear that Goku could have ended him effortlessly at any point after becoming super saiyan)>Androids are just 16, 17 and 18 who've killed Dr Gero offscreen when they first woke up, no gay clown robot or old man brain in a jar>Goku has his heart attack as soon as he powers up to fight them, Gohan and Krillin take him home while Vegeta(who hasn't yet become a super saiyan), Piccolo and Tenshinhan stay behind to try and hold them off>They get their asses beat and have to be saved by Trunks swooping in at the last second just to help them escape>Vegeta doesn't become a super saiyan until he jobs to the androids AND gets completely mogged and protected by his own son>Together once Vegeta's super saiyan they're able to put up a decent fight despite both already being half-dead, Androids are amused by this and tell them to go rest up and try again then leave them to go find Goku>Piccolo flies off to fuse with Kami>Goku wakes up and uses instant transmission to go tell Trunks and Vegeta about the extremely convenient high gravity time chamber>Cell part of the arc happens as it happened originally
>>288191406>lying on the flood like a cuck>unable to move>getting his ribs broken by a little kid and crying in painYyyyyyyyyyup.
>lying on the floodI'm afraid I don't speak IESLB. Try again.
>>288190668>vegeta goes from 18,000 to 24,000 after his fight with goku>then to 30,000 after monster zarbon >and then after recoome gaped him it shot up all the way to 530,000>Goku went from 90,000 before fighting ginyu to 3,000,000Toryiama should never have assigned numbers to power levels. Not because they weren't accurate in the story itself but it further shows how arbitrary these strength increases are.
>>288189906also frieza kept losing power because hes a untrained mfi love nuance ball so much bro
>>288191475>Piccolo flies off to fuse with Kami>Goku wakes up and uses instant transmission to go tell Trunks and Vegeta about the extremely convenient high gravity time chamberBut they wouldn't really need the rosat once they have 3 Super Saiyans and Kamiccolo unless Cell had already woken up and absorbed one of the androids. Actually I'm not even sure they would sacrifice the Dragon Balls for a Namekian fusion once Goku recovers if Vegeta and Trunks can already put up a fight against them.
how did the dragon affect Nuly?
Bejita getting a slave tramp stamp just to match Goku only for him to pull out SS3 in the next few scenes will never not be funny.
>>288189567It is the modern day equivalent of Goku turning SSJ4 to stop a building from falling
>>288191926How bad do you think his melty was while he watched from the afterlife?
>>288191381Krillin TANKED that shit
>>288191910>against their willBroly was shitting his pants and wanted an out. His eyes also returned to normal just before the Kamehameha reached him.
>>288191847Goku, Piccolo and Kami would still be motivated by their bad feeling about Cell. Vegeta would be motivated by not being at all satisfied by the thought of having to work together with Trunks just to barely get by against the androids. Trunks would still want to power up to demolish the androids in his own time and spend quality time with the old man.
>>288192096>literal who shot first
>>288189674Nobody tell him
>*sniffles* Anon, you're not one of the ones who says mean things about me behind my back, are you?
>>288192435There there Pan, You're loved. Don't let Jimmy Roo and his band of misfits put you down.
>>288189795But survive. Goku. did.
>But survive. Goku. did.
>>288192318>KILL YOURSELF PEDO
>An*n
>>288189674If Toriyama wrote that fight now, I'd be kneeling before the cross
>>288192533who are you quoting?
>>288191668The point of numbers was that the high tech aliens don't understand ki or the spiritual aspects of martial artsFittingly neither do capeshitbrained burgermuttnigs
Is Abridged still rewriting people's memories or has discourse of Z gone back to normal?
>>288192693I only choose to pretend I remember things the DBZA way when it makes it funnier, like Goku just having heart disease in his 20s from his terrible eating habits instead of a mysterious unexplained heart virus that maybe came from space.
>>288192726>The Bacon came back to haunt him.
>>288193122built for instant loss via tail grabbing
>>288193122All my attempts at Dragon Ball OCs have been terrible. No wonder people just do fapbait like this
>>288192682>aliens don't understand kiObviously they did since they were able to measure and quantify it. They just didn't think it was possible to purposefully lower your ki>spiritual aspects of martial artsCompletely stopped mattering once Z got going and it focused entirely on ooga booga punch harder bigger energy beam more speed lines
>>288193325He's right on the Frieza Force not understanding martial arts. They don't think you can get meaningful gains from training, all the elites were coasting off power levels they were born with. The Ginyus thought Goku was a mutant at first like it wasn't possible for him to have trained to get as strong as he was.
>>288192726Gero created the virus. The androids were the backup plan.
>>288189906Utter fanfiction. He had it up for one attack, during which he went against the Kamehameha before slipping out of the blast to hit Goku with.
If you think about it, the reason why anime and manga has so many androgynous cute chubby boys wearing tight clothing like spandex and stockings and leggings and even skirts and thigh highs is because the Japanese realized they want the cute adorable neoteny of girls but the adventurous fire and force of boys. All those 80s and 90s anime and Famicom games of super cutesy boys with swords and stockings going on big ol adventures? You know why.It's like the best of both worldsNeoteny (youthful, childlike features): big eyes, small noses, rounded faces, high-pitched voices, light bodies. These tap into universal aesthetic instincts for cuteness.Shonen Spirit (adventure, courage, aggression, willpower): swords, fights, quests, tournaments, rivalries.In combining these two traits into young, soft-featured boys, Japanese media could manufacture a kind of character who radiates both endearing softness and burning intensity. Think of characters like:Rolf from Phantasy Star IICrono from Chrono TriggerHikaru Shindo from Hikaru no GoPre-modern Link from the early Zelda seriesNearly every 80s-90s JRPG protagonistAnd how could I forget cute lil Kid Goku, round cute boy with big eyes and a FEMALE voice actor?They are boyish in every sense: not masculine men, but not helpless children either. Cute-coded, a lot of girly features, but boys! Compare to the gross goblin-like appearance of boys in Western media. So for creators who subconsciously wanted to have adventurous and violent female leads but knew that they lacked the male will of force and danger, just draw a girl, take off the eyelashes, and call it a boy! Cute!The rise of femboys Is Japan ceasing to lie to itself and instead embrace this fusion. Japan wants the boyish soul with the adorable shell; the rise of femboys is the logical endpoint of decades of experimentation with the “perfect synthesis” of adventure and cuteness.This is totally scientifically backed! I have a master's degree in femboyology.
>>288192008>[headcanon]GODly won and was FORCED away.
>
>288194180Can you shut up man
>>288190642>>288190991Androids are weaker but don't get tired and have shields so they can tire out the stronger fighters for an easy kill after a long battle.It's literally that easy and not even that different from how it played out in cannon.
Jiren.
>>28819426218 truly does have infinite stamina, doesn't she?She could endure many, many rounds, with multiple partners even.
I have been working on my next version of the powerlevel chart and here it is, Version 2. Changes:-Added another tier inbetween Semi-Perfect Cell and the Androids because Android 16, Piccolo after his visit in the time chamber and powered up Imperfect Cell are fully a tier above the other androids.-Removed Shin and Kibito Kai from the regular placement due to inability to correctly place them on the chart.-Added some colours to easier differentiate between the arcs and the unknown-tier at the very bottom.If you know where I can place the characters on the unknown tier in the chart, I am all ears. State your case.
For comparison, this is the previous version (1).
>>288195248>>288195267>Buuhan same tier as BuutenksAre you retarded?I'm not even looking or reading further.
And this is where it derived from. It was incomplete so I added more characters.>>288195273Buuhan is still stronger though. If you think Buuhan needs to be on a tier of it's own, state your case.I am currently working on Version 3.
>>288195248>>288195267GomahCHAD solos everyone here.
>>288191303It's really odd Toriyama went out of his way to establish Gero specifically didn't know about Super Saiyans, and completely overlooked checking Goku's return from space, when you'd think he'd at least keep an eye on that to check him again since he's his target and he might just have died when going to space.Just adding a line about him using Super Saiyan date to improve his androids would go a big way in explaining a lot, but Toriyama went out of his way to make this impossible.
