Let's discuss which anime and manga we've been using to learn Japanese. What have YOU been doing to increase your 日本語 gains?
I've been reading Japanese novels on my kindle on the bus and I can tell everyone around me thinks I'm cool as fuck.
>>288232416Cool, but novels are extremely boring.
I've been reading most of the manga I read in Japanese these days. Yama no Susume is still above my level but I'm making due. Also reading Rozen Maiden and some old shoujo manga.
>>288232454How the hell is Yama no Susume above your level but Rozen Maiden isn't? SoL shit is for babies.
>>288232466YnS has a shitload of place names and large amounts of tiny text with more specific terminology.
>>288232485Oh no, not specific terminology! However will you cope? Can you imagine some guy in Japan watching a show like Dallas and crying on 5ch about having to see things like "Braddock County"
>>288232391>MangaA bunch but the ones that stuck were 18 volumes of KaoruHana and 8-gatsu ... long summer. The very first one that made feel like I was making progress was Koe no Katachi.Then I realized the text density in manga wasn't ideal with the limited time I have, and to easy on grammar, so I read a bunch of yuri LNs. Currently reading Kino no Tabi #3. Real literature is still far from me.>AnimeKakushigoto, Frieren, Ikoku Nikki. The first one I tried was Bocchi, but it was too difficult, so I swiched to simpler stuff like Kimi ni Todoke and Orange.It's great for learning but they seiyuus have too good of a diction compared to real spoken Japanese, so I've been mostly watching live action stuff (Bakebake).
>>288232391reading manga, also been practicing writing kanji
>>288232532Have you read it in Japanese, anon? I don't know why you seem so offended by the fact that I find Rozen Maiden easier to read than YnS.
>>288232391there's a lot of threads on /a/ that don't belong. buyfag. drawfag. but DJT has been explicitly moved to /jp/so fuck off
>>288232569You seem to be confused. This is the DLT.
>>288232537How is manga grammar any less difficult than the grammar found in an LN? Most people here would find the LN easier to read because the narration would make the story easier to follow.
>>288232735>How is manga grammar any less difficult than the grammar found in an LNBecause LNs rely on more narration. If anything manga being visual makes it easier for a beginner to follow along.
>>288232391Me kanji?That's unpossible
>>288232785But the narration follows more structured grammar, and affords the reader a more concrete sentence structure. Manga relies entirely on dialogue and visuals with only mild narration in between. I've seen more people get confused trying to decipher a manga panel than an LN paragraph.
>>288232810You WILL read the kanji and you WILL like it.
>>288232569these can't seriously be the threads you have trouble with on /a/.
>>288232824I think LNs are a lot more difficult, but it might be just the matter of getting used to them. I've been reading manga in Japanese for years now but I picked up SukaSuka in English earlier this year and once I ran out of translated material, I bounced off hard.
>>288232564Yup, read all of it. It's insanely easy terminology that even an N4 could follow.
>>288232569well I approve it being back on /a/. go back and kill yourself normalfag. people want board culture back but there's subhumans that say this sort of retarded shit
>>288232965I'll admit that the vocabulary in an LN is generally higher than that of a manga (assuming you only read manga), but the grammar should be about the same. I can't actually think of any grammar points that exceed your typical anime or manga.
>>288232735I meant the grammar forms in the manga I've read are more limited. If one of 2 main characters speaks like a retard, half of the text you'll find will be silly simple grammar. Any random narrator tends to be better spoken just due to the medium. Like the girl in pic related (the left one). She's kind of dumb, speaks in a thick accent, has a very limited vocabulary. Even with all that, she speaks more, and more richly, than almost every other character with similar personality traits in manga I could find at my level.Novels tend to have more formal grammar and literary language rarely found in manga dialogue. Prose has no visuals, meaning you need to pay attention to who's speaking, the transitivity of every action. Also having a narrator means every single action is expressed "fully", one image is worth a thousand words, etc. Whenever some character looks like they're about to do something, thinking about something, or wanting to do something, you find forms not so common in manga just because any random sentence like that would occupy 3 dialog bubbles in a medium where space is a rare commodity.It all boils down to character count and density. You spend more time looking at kanji. I could read 10 volumes of some manga, and run out of material from that author in that style and tone, or read 1 single LN and move on to volume 2.
>>288232977Rozen Maiden must be N5 level then. But you seem to believe it's more difficult.
>>288233044I never said it was more difficult. All I did was question how you could find Rozen Maiden to be at your level but YnS to be too hard lol
>>288233031>Prose has no visuals, meaning you need to pay attention to who's speaking,That's literally written out.>the transitivity of every actionUh, pretty sure verb transitivity is something you have to pay attention to in every sentence with a verb.>Also having a narrator means every single action is expressed "fully"Thus making it easier to follow since it's literally spelled out for you.I'm not arguing density, but I doubt you could find a grammar structure that won't also exist in your typical anime or manga.
>>288232391I got REALLY into Higurashi when I watched Gou by accident and didn't know wtf was going on but still thought it was incredible so I couldn't stop watching until the end but to my surprise the end of Gou wasn't "the end" so I was like man I did I miss something so I found out there were whole seasons back in the day so I finally caught up with it and it was sooooooooo good and then I watched Gou AGAIN and was like, uhhhh, is this actually getting worse and then watched Sotsu and it was so bad it fucking ruined my life but thank god for the Meguri manga wow wow but then I heard the original VN is where it's at so I'm playing it in Japanese and following along with flash cards on JPDB and it's slow going but I still feel like I'm stuck in Hinamizawa and it's ONE MONTH UNTIL WATANAGASHIGET READY BITCHESAHAHAHAHAHHA
>>288233266>but I still feel like I'm stuck in HinamizawaWhat's slowing you down about it? Having trouble parsing the grammar or what?
>>288233115I just searched the entire content of Ikoku Nikki, a seinen manga, and found a single occurrence of v stem+つつ. A random steamy scene from the latest yuri I read had like 3 of those.>Thus making it easier to follow since it's literally spelled out for you.Having it spelled out out and making sense of it are two different things. If someone hits someone in the face you'll see a panel depicting such scene with human figures and a sound effect. In prose, you're supposed to parse that who's hitting who and how.I mean, you could read an article about Trump meeting Xi Jinping or watch a photo and a short clip of them meeting at some building. You seem to be arguing understanding the content the photo+video is somehow harder than reading the article along all its extra details. I don't buy that.
>>288233407>Ikoku Nikki, >a seinen manga,Stop using words you don't understand.
>>288233426My bad. It's josei. Close enough age group.Stop nitpicking.
>>288233407V+つつ occurs quite literally in the first episode of Card Captor Sakura, a show for young children.>キャンディーを握りしめつつ うっとりなさってるんですものYour acting like LNs contain some kind of special grammar not found in regular manga and anime when in reality grammar is universal.
Should you jerk off before or after doing reps for maximized retention?
>>288233496>SakuraSo, about that>Search "つつ" (5 hits in 5 files of 70 searched)Only 2 of which actually correspond to that form. From episode 1 and 68. I don't think it's a good use of my time to see some grammar and wait another 20～ hours to see it again compared to what prose has to offer.
>>288232391I cycle between anime/vn's/ln's. I don't really read manga, mostly because I literally couldn't find raws for the stuff I wanted to read since they were I guess too obscure. I don't think manga is even really worth using as practice though, in fact I think it's the worst practice material out of all the possible choices. The reading difficulty is to the same degree as anime but you miss out on the voice acting for listening practice. LN's and also vn's are far more descriptive because they are novels, the scene being always described through words (instead of pictures) makes it a higher level form of practice. The hardest thing with learning the language though is finding actually engaging material to read. Right now I've been really enjoying Shibou Yuugi.
What's a good starter manga (not Yotsuba) for someone around N5-N4?I can read most of Yotsuba but the lack of kanji and the simplified language keeps filtering me.
>>288233858JJK. Very easy dialogue and fun action.
>>288232569>you cant talk about japanese on a japanese anime boardwho made this stupid rule anyways?
>>288232569
>>288233808Certain raw mangas can be a pain to find, but in general, most stuff is available. I think VNs/LBs are largely overrated. Anything you could ever learn is gonna come up in an anime, so you can just stick with those.
>>288233858A lack of kanji should make it easier, not harder, anon.
>>288233858Naruto.
>>288232391hmm interesting I remember /djt/ and its infamous autists but dedicating a japanese learning thread with exclusively using manga/anime doesn't sound too bad for /a/
still in anki hell
>>288234826Most of those guys have gone away or sequestered themselves on other boards. This is a chance for people to actually discuss learning Japanese with anime and manga.
>>288234838Hopefully due to mining words you've encountered while reading...right?
>>288234848i think as long as we use "anime or manga" exclusively for learning, we're good in /a//djt/ uses VNs, LNs, streams, and other stuff for learning but it's nice to have an exclusive thread in /a/ that discusses the goal just to be able to read or watch without tl or subs
>>288234848If you have it too often then it'll inevitably turn in /jp/'s djt
>>288234838I dropped Anki and couldn't be more happy even if I only know 3k words at most.
>>288234861h-haha
>>288232416Do you wear glasses too?
>>288234826Make threads about raw manga, not about learning Japanese.
>>288235247You're missing out. Anki lets you memorize all the fun words in your anime like 権中納言 and 奇妙奇天烈
>>288235382It's fine. I will either memorize them naturally or they are simply not that important to me.
>>288235396In all seriousness, it'll take you a lot longer to memorize essential words if you go without it. The problem with memorizing words on the fly is that there's so many of them that you'll end up forgetting most of it and spend even more time having to re-look them up.Anki saves time in the long run.
>>288234046The issue with these threads is they eventually become too off topic, you'd know this if you weren't new.
>>288235379While I appreciate the sentiment, the point of reading raw manga is to learn Japanese, otherwise just read it in English.For instance, this page alone contains a ton of very useful words and expressions like 文句なし, 物の怪, どうやら, etc. All of this is very useful language that you'll be seeing hundreds of times as you read.
>>288235396>>288235473
>>288235446Mark my words, this one will stay on-topic.
>>288232391Edomae Elf. Its quite good for learning and short.
>>288232391Putting off getting more listening practice to read the WataNare light novels.
>>288235576How did "Edo-style Elf" become "Otaku Elf" in English? I swear, no one respects what things mean anymore.
>>288232391>animenone>mangatried risou and claymore, but didn't work. maybe i can go back now though, need to check>otherotetetsunaide and amagamianki and tae kim
>>288235473>the point of reading raw manga is to learn Japanese, otherwise just read it in English.You would read in English after you learned Japanese?The point of reading in Japanese is that it's what the author intended, it's faster to get and you aren't dependent on translator decisions such as magazine vs volume.
Finished the latest volume of Kemuri to mitsu recently. Kino as always
This is a good manga and you should all read it.
>>288235665What do you mean "didn't work"? How does it not work? You read the words annd grammar and learn Japanese. That simple.
>>288235675Well yes, there are benefits to it after the fact, but apart from understanding the intended meaning, JP manga is generally harder to find. For instance, no freaking good scan of Slam Dunk exists and English speakers are the only ones to actually get Akira in color.
>>288232391I've been using Jiten to look up the most common vocabulary used in an anime then making the words I don't already know into flash cards to go through before watching an episode.For the last few days I've been watching Medalist.
>>288235801Why are you learning them before watching the anime? You're missing out on the context if you do that.
>>288235761i mean that i bought them physically and also have both translated and raw digitals and i couldn't read them.my guess as to why i couldn't read them was because 1) i already read them in english, 2) having both english and raw is actually not a good idea, and that 3) they're vertical. this is based off otetetsunaide working and what i noticed about my feelings about the matter.on a similar note, otetetsunaide also suggests to me it's easier when things aren't voiced. the "comprehension" or whatever word it was used by youtubers recommend live action tv for doesn't matter for me because speaking at speed is too much pressure.
>>2882358641. Quit being a degenerate.2. It sounds like you couldn't read them because you didn't even try to read them. Was there a particular sentence or page that got you stuck?
fuck itwhat's your process?>step 1 learn kana>step 2 anki? grammar?>step 3 read manga/watch anime>step 4 profit??i just need an easy step that i can follow with the only goal of consuming my chinese cartoons, mangoes, eroge, and LNs in peaceso far not planning to live in nipland or something
>>288235950>Learn Hiragana/Katakana>Taekim for a bit, anki some basic grammar and kanji>Read manga and VNs endlesslyIt's easier to remember things when you're enjoying it.
>>288235894>戦争してもまた負けるだろうし…That's right. Know your place, Japan. Also, 衒学 is a pretty obscure word.
>>288235950>step 3.5 consult AI on everythingAI's understanding of Japanese is near-perfect. You can use it to teach you literally anything and I'm surprised how many people aren't using it yet.
>>288235787>JP manga is generally harder to find.That's not true at all. Slam Dunk and Akira are major exceptions of series that haven't had a digital release and colorized versions isn't something you normally want.The vast majority of manga isn't available in English at all and the titles they got require compromising.
>>288236078It is true. Try finding raw versions of manga adaptations of games. It can be literally impossible. Meanwhile scanlations of all of them exist online, perfectly available to read. I should not be able to find End of Eternity's manga scanlated before the raw.>and colorized versions isn't something you normally want.This is what we call "sour grapes."
>>288236133>This is what we call "sour grapes."How many shitty color versions are available in Japanese but in English because the translators choose to translate the b&w version?Do you have trouble finding any title from the past decade?
>>288236194The list goes on.Trigun has a freely available fan re-translation of the series complete with nicely edited spreads https://www.reddit.com/r/Trigun/comments/yzo4mz/trigun_ultimate_overhaul_the_new_fan_translation/Meanwhile, if you want clean copies of the latter volumes, you gotta buy them yourself AND the double pages aren't edited cleanly together.
I guess this is as good a thread as any, but what happened to the scanlation general?I haven't been back on /a/ in two-three years.
>>288236306innit happened. It's impossible to have a normal discussion when 90% of the thread is strawmanning.
>>288236306Monthly with a chance of getting deleted now
>>288232391How do I git gud at grammar?
>>288236346Just read
>>288235860It's in the watching of the show where I'm going do be doing the real learning, doing flashcards before just primes me to notice them easier.Sentence mining and daily Anki reps are almost certainly more efficient but I don't have the patience for that.
>>288236346Look up the parts you don't understand and analyze the grammar structures as you see them. You should be able to say what each particle is doing in any given sentence at any time.Don't just look at a sentence, nod your head, and think "it means something like..." actually know what it's saying.
>>288236331Innit?
>>288236384Yeah, but you won't know which sense of the word you're looking at, so you're essentially flying blind. It would be better to add them either during the episode or after the fact if you're gonna do that.
>>288235617Still better than what they did to Ichido Dake Demo, Koukai Shitemasu
>>288236246>you gotta buy them yourselfIs that your real problem? But even then you'll find a plethora of manga that will never get translated available to read for free.>AND the double pages aren't edited cleanly together.Why would you want that? Use a reader that lets you choose between single and double page display, preferably with support for table of contents and other comfort features.
>>288236394Dutch person who translates to an obnoxious fake English and shits up the threads about random translation bullshit. >>287842346
>>288236420>I Can't Believe I Slept with You!My god, who comes up with these? It sounds like one of those overly literal translation but it's not lol
>>288236433No, that's just another example of an English release being better than a JP release. >Why would you want that?Because the scan was imperfect and this group fixed that? I'm not talking about literally putting two pages together.
>>288236485>I'm not talking about literally putting two pages together.But that's what they did.
>>288236507No, they photoshopped them to actually fit together. I own the original digital release.
>>288236485>No, that's just another example of an English release being better than a JP release.And how often do you have the opposite? e.g. Scanslations using web or magazine versions instead of superior volumes. Or scanlators using shitty pirate raws instead of properly ripping the digital versions themselves. Or the only English option being ancient paper scans with black levels from the abyss.And in the end of the day it's all translations that can at best mimic the original.
>>288236332>>288236454Well bugger. Thanks.
>>288236580I think my point with all of this is that raw manga isn't always more available and/or convenient to read than English versions. That's why we go out of our way to hunt it down so that we can learn with it.
>>288234046I get that the point of the image is that some behaviours are stupid and only done because of tradition but that is not the situation for these monkeysthey originally decided that nobody getting bananas is worth it if it means they don't get soakedand that is still true at the end of the experimentso if we accept the premise that no punishment > eating bananas, then this is an example of the group correctly passing down advantageous behaviours to the next generation, even if the reason for it is lostit's the equivalent of nobody needing to touch the electric fence themselves, because they simply have been told it's badit's not that the monkeys are stupid, it's that the researchers are assholes
>>288236629If it is in 99.9% of the cases then the 0.1% don't really matter.I'd rather read a version in Japanese with lower image quality than force myself to endure English translations.
>>288236416I don't need to know which sense of the word for the flash card since the flash card doesn't matter beyond priming me to pick out the word in the show, which we both agree is what provides that context.
>>288235969>>288236013thanks anons, so basically the flow is like thislearn grammar > read > correct yourself > read vice versawhat i dont get is the mining partsome anons suggest putting the words you dont understand in anki instead of using pre-built decksbut others also advise to use anki first to get familiar, then learn grammar or something along those lines
>>288236684The context would still require a bit of thought to ask yourself which sense of a word is being used. Compound that with multiple unknown words being used in yet-unknown ways and you have a recipe for confusion.
>>288236678It's not 0.1%. It's common enough that I can guarantee most game adaptations don't have proper and/or freely available scans outside English releases.
>>288236714Yup, you got it.Mining is making a card format (or using somebody else's) in Anki and adding the words you come across to it. Creating them is automated via Yomitan, but you can go the extra mile by also adding pictures and/or accompanying audio and text to it. There are scripts that even automate this process for anime.Premade decks are limited and won't typically help you understand words in the context that you read them in.
This thread was moved to >>>/bant/24366006
