Why is manga so hard to get into compared to western comics?
Absolutely shit tier and retarded thread.Post you're waifu smiling happily instead.
>when you read the complimentary works and everything is related and parts makes you review your physical existence because it looks too similarhttps://youtu.be/tao59LxWmRII will never trust anybody again!!!
>>291611557Since I've wondered this for a while but didn't feel it deserved a thread: Why didn't western companies copy the anthology format? A magazine like Weekly Shonen Jump lets the company>Double dip by making fans of a particular series buying the tankobon to read it again in non-shit quality>Give new series a chance since most people buy it to follow big series like One PieceThis seems like a win for both the customer and the company, yet they leave it on the table
>>291611557>Start at Issue 1. Not to be confused with Issue 1 of the alt timeline series. Not to be confused with Issue 1 of Ultimate Edition. Not to be confused with Issue 1 of the crossover. Not to be confused with Issue 1 of the multiverse edition. Not to be confused with issue 1 of the Reboot series
>>291611557Dragon ball and Z are the same thing, Toriyama’s manga is just called dragon ball all the way through. Some anime only dubfag made this didn’t they?
>>291611805More likely it's that usual capeshit vs manga crossboarder(s) doing the usual shit, but this time they decided to flip things around.
>>291611787They did and continue to do so. I just bought a Superman magazine from Walgreens for my girlfriend that has three Superman stories in it. There have always been collected magazines. They're just not huge like Jump is.
>>291611592
>>291611900Three Superman stories make it more of a pseudo-tankobon (although we technically do have proper tankos for western comics, the paperback rereleases). What I'm suggesting is more of a "DC monthly", where you get the ongoing Superman, Batman, etc, as well as new series, which can get carried by the people buying the magazine for Superman and Batman
>>291611941NTA, but that is what they basically do in my country. All the new Batman books are published in one collection with one issue of each series.
Bad thing about comics(superhero comics that is) is that they don’t want to create new heroes. They’ll keep reusing the same names, and it leads to countless writers giving their spin on the hero. It’ll lead to some good stories but you’ll also get constant humiliation rituals that Spider-Man has gone through
>>291611986At this point, the real money's in the merchandising rather than the comics themselves.
>>291611557The opposite of the pic is true. Are you retarded or baiting?
>>291612002see >>291611838
>>291611976Sounds neat, but you're ultimately using Batman to carry Batman, which leads to what >>291611986 brings up. Again, look at WSJ, it gets an established base from staples like One Piece, and then readers get to give other series a chance
>>291611787Actually read some manga anthologies and manga magazines so you can stop using the words interchangeably.
>>291612045Sorry, what I meant by all Batman books is Batman, Detective Comics, Nightingale, Catwoman, etc.
>Dragon Ball ZNot a manga.
>>291611592Sorry, I refuse to post my waifu in shit threads.
>>291611986They do create new characters, but nobody likes them.
>>291611941That's literally what they used to do. They dropped the format due to reducing page size to the point there wasn't really enough pages for it to make sense any more.
>>291611557the meme that buckbroke /a/
castrate all /co/ckgobblers
>>291612100WSJ being a weekly magazine doesn't stop it from being an anthology>>291612105That's a bit better but you ultimately still end up in a similar pitfall, Nightingale and Catwoman are Batman spinoffs, their existence is inherently carried by Batman. You get the added value of multiple series on one purchase, but the cross pollination among fanbases would pretty much happen regardless>>291612197This one makes more sense, although I know they really tried to keep prices pegged at 10c for a long time since they wanted comics to be cheap enough to impulse purchase. Still surprised they didn't give it another chance when they were ultimately forced to raise prices (as they tried to make up for it in other ways, like slightly fancier paper)
Go back, Redditor.
>>>/co/155877666Fuck are you doing, retard? Got tired of being clowned on over there?
>>291612002it's a bait, since it's an edit, as the original is what you said
this is the original btw. some butthurt comictranny made op's pic with tears streaming down xer face.
>>291612407It's crazy how they've been doing that capecomics vs manga shit for YEARS. Genuine mental illness.
>>291611557This is just a stealth comics thread in general, isn't it?
>>291612168based.>>291612335segregation exist for a reason.
>>291611557
>>291611557Trolling all these people this softly. Just adorable!
>>291612296The English Wikipedia is full of bogus claims and even then Jump is the only magazine they call an anthology.
>>291611557I like how neither of the books on the right are actually "issue 1".
>>291611986Stop reading the Big 2
>>291611557Absolute Batman is woke thrash.
>>291612045Makes me wonder how things will be like in a hundred years, after we're all gone. We have such a perfect record of our cultural period today because of mass digital storage media. Long after Oda is gone and One Piece has been completed, will people still be reading the original version? Or will the future owners of Shueisha authorize some other author to do a reboot/remake of One Piece, leading to the same situation comics are in now?It's a really weird period of human history where our culture can be so impeccably preserved for the future. Music, art, video, games, all of it. We make things and then they are preserved forever without data loss or corruption whatsoever.
>>291611557I'm not Japanese, so keeping up with most new manga means finding an unofficial translation. This only exists at the whims of random scanlators deciding what to pick up. Anything officially translated will be published a long time after the original, or never.
>>291611557Because every new manga requires readers to learn new characters, settings and conflicts. Comics are just rehashing the same old capeshits for over half a century and making them more woke and browner.
>>291612767And it still mogs most of WSJ's output in the past 15 years.
>>291611557There is no Dragon Ball Z manga, it was one publication. Only the anime was split in two.
>>291612915>WSJ's output in the past 15 yearsTalk about setting the bar low.
>>291612915lol u fucking wish
I can't believe /a/ is replying to the cheapest kind of bait yet.
>>291612846You don't have to be Japanese to learn Japanese.
>>291612832People still read the original versions of classic books rather than defaulting to retarded revisions by random faggots.
>>291612448I was going to say as a comicfag the OP is simply outright lies. For most comic series, it's not bad, but for capeshit, it's a nightmare. Trying to read New Mutants is impossible.
>>291613064this, it could not be more obvious
>>291612518I thought for a second that this is Weird Al
>>291611557Is it opposite day?
>>291613000>I could read about buff Batman beating the shit out of monsters, or I could read about Deku and Denji crying over retarded shit.Decisions decisions.
>>291611986>they don’t want to create new heroesThey constantly do that and with villains too, the problem is that Marvel and DC don't have the courage to get rid of their older and more known characters like in the past. This is why they have tons of legacy characters around but always go back to the originals
>>291612407What a sad thread.As retarded as these arguments get over here, you can at least tell some people are having fun shitposting and getting baited. Every post there reads so dejected.
>>291611557Thank God I never read capeshit comics in my life, only pre-Disney Star wars.
We have been discussing this "question" since at least 2007 in my own personal experience.Over the years, we've seen the same good answers trotted out over and over, and dozens of stupid and low-quality answers as well.At least if you rehashed this stupid topic on xitter you could engagement farm and earn enough rupees to buy food this week OP.
>>291611557I know this is bait, but it speaks to american fans not having watched/read the original dragonball. And even the Z anime got shit on by putting absolute trash music over itIn germany they showed it in order with the original soundtrack, and we even got this banger opening for DB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0y_hmQf6X8You literally start with chapter one and end with boo. And if you enjoyed that, you can watch toy commercials using those characters that came afterward.
>>291613566How is she your waifu?
>>291614055>boo
>>291614214Yes, dubshitter.
>>291612518That EVIL BASTARD and his charming smile
>>291614232He's not Boo in Japan either, scanretard.
>>291614304Dumbass.
>>291611557Why are there so many replies to this retarded thread? It's literally the complete opposite, holy shit.
>>291614214Yamchu and his trusty cat Pool. Son-Goku’s cloud Jindujun and his father Badaku who fought against the mighty Freezer. Das ist geil, ja?
>>291611557It is funny that, even if DB were actually multiple series like in the meme, it would still be easier to get into since it is a single story told chronologically in release order.Kind of a missed opportunity not to include shit like Neko Majin, the Yamcha isekai or Arale to make it "more confusing" but I guess normalfags would not get the reference.
>>291612832Mass digital storage media will not last a hundred years. The entirety of our modern culture is one cloudflare error away from becoming lost media, there is no point in recorded history were shit was so precariously preserved for the future.
66 fucking retards replied to this threadthey were literally too emotionally weak to not take the obvious baitthey could have just let it die off page 11, but they couldn't. their throbbing inflamed amygdala just couldn't let it go>b-but you replied tooi'm the jester that shows the rest of you are emperors with no clothes. you could have let it slide, instead you rewarded it and now you get what you deserve, more threads like this
>>291615708You still replied, dumbass.
>>291612518Based
>>291611557Team books and everything being part of a shared universe is more harmful to capeshit comics than anything else. Really, notice how adapatations to cartoons or movies tend to ignore other heroes and maybe just a cameo or so (mcu not notwithstanding).As for teambooks, 80% of the time they are garbage to dumps that have their characters act in ways that wouldn't happen in their solo books. Whatever good stories the avengers and the justice league have are not worth the cancer it spawns.
>>291611557I do think the whole "getting into" manga/anime vs comics discussion is kind of retarded.The whole point of comics is that you can start whenever. Go to a book store or a comic shop, pick up any compiled release, and you'll largely be able to read it with minimal issue.Like, what if Jason Todd is in this Batman comic, and you don't know his story? They'll usually include some footnote, there, end of, not important.But with manga, especially the manga being compared to typically (which is longrunning shounen) that really isn't the case. You can't just pick up and start One Piece from the Wano arc or whatever, because that actively does expect the reader to have the 20 years of continuity in their head (and even a couple films). You can't just start Dragon Ball from the new show, because it's reliant on the viewer knowing all this shit that happened in the previous shows.The closest comparisons to comics within manga are like, Detective Conan and JoJo, Conan because it's largely episodic and JoJo because its Parts can all be read independent of each other with little issue. Knowing who Jotaro is in Parts 4-6 (or Koichi in Part 5, or Dio in Parts 5 and 6) is not a big issue, because their ultimate usage is not reliant on preceding information and context. They're utilized as characters for this narrative specifically, which is largely how comics work.It's why big total reboots like New 52 were a mistake. The people complaining about "Where to start" are ultimately a minority. A person interested in comics would just go to a shop and buy a graphic novel or single issue. The real reason why nobody does this is because comics fail to market themselves and just hope that films will give them the attention they need, in addition to screwing the pooch when they do happen upon success (Marvel's last Ultimate line was a big hit, even with people who never read the original Ultimates, and they shitcanned it two years in).
>>291612934>There is no Dragon Ball Z manga, it was one publication. Only the anime was split in two.
>>291611787that's what the original books were, like amazing fantasy. the answer is that individual books sold more and anothology books couldn't compete- imagine if dragonball and naruto moved to their own books instead of staying in the main magazine.
>>291611557Exquisite baitThe fact that so many literal retards have fallen for it tells me that the average /a/non is not nearly as smart as it believes itself to be
>>291613462>Most legacy characters are gay, non-white or both.Nobody wants to read about gay Superman.
>>291616372>not important.I think that really is the crux of the issue with "getting into" manga vs comic for most people. "Where to start" is just the most intuitive way to express it. The fact that nothing matters is heavily discouraging. Yes, you can read a Jason Todd Batman comic without knowing who Jason Todd or Batman are and miss nothing. This is not a good thing. It means there is no reason to read that or any comic involving those characters. It is all whatever. On the other hand, knowing who Jotaro is in parts 4-6 exponentially makes the reading experience better. Yes, you can understand the basic information as presented in the plot without knowing who he is but you will be missing something out. Every single one of his appearances has a gravitas that speaks of his place in the larger narrative. You are going to leave the story wanting to know what the fuck he did in part 3 for every character to have so much reverence for him. There is a reason and a motivation for wanting to read everything in order when it comes to manga, even if it means a bit of homework. Those efforts get rewarded when you "get into" manga.I think these kinds of discussions are ultimately about emotional investment, not availability and accessibility.
>>291616242I'm not sacrificing Grant Morrison's JLA and Busiek's Avengers for anything.
>>291617217>Yes, you can read a Jason Todd Batman comic without knowing who Jason Todd or Batman are and miss nothing. This is not a good thing.No, it is a good thing.You're right in that most young people today are overly obsessed with shit that doesn't matter like a "long running narrative" that is strictly adhered to (seriously, nobody would fucking read Batman if it was just a linear story that has been running for nearly 100 years where you need to start from the first issue and read ALL of it to get into it), but what I described is why certain Batman comics are extremely popular.Knightfall is backed by a lot of lore, but it is generally popular still, and far more popular than what surrounds and feeds into it, because it's just good. Anyone can read it and it'll be perfectly fine, so long as they have a base concept of who Batman is.The most popular Batman game is Arkham Asylum, which starts in-media-res, expecting the player to know all these characters and storylines.There's Court of Owls, there's Hush, there's DKR, all this shit that people can just read on their own and it's perfectly fine, and they're popular because of it. Hopefully one day this continuity obsession just fucking dies. It's retarded.Also, if you want to read everything "in order" for comics, you can still do that. It's just that the popularity and success of comics was always because they were easy to get into and "Issue 1" never mattered. If they wanted to do that shit, they'd just make a new line, like Ultimate Spider-Man, completely different Spider-Man universe that starts from Issue #1.
>>291611557>OP had to literally lie to make his shitty bait thread worklol
>>291616406You see anon, that was a time-skip. The manga never actually goes by Z, it's still just Dragon Ball.
>>291617603>The manga never actually goes by Z
>>291617767>the western releaselol
>>291617440Curious defense of comic retardation.>seriously, nobody would fucking read Batman if it was just a linear story that has been running for nearly 100 years where you need to start from the first issue and read ALL of it to get into itMaybe it sucks then. Though if this was the case it would obviously have been written differently so you can't really make any judgment. It wouldn't have run for as long as it has either if it was one story. They'd have to actually make something new instead of using the same characters for 100 years too.
>>291617440Even with that leeway no one is reading Batman anyway so it clearly doesn't work. Sure, I could read any of those issues but, why would I? There is no incentive to do so when nothing matters. It is not even about the whole narrative/lore obsession some fandoms have. That is more of a /co/ and /tv/ thing than an /a/ thing imo. There is no shortage of massively popular anime and manga that are nothing but characters engaging in an activity with no real overarching plot or continuity. This is an issue unique to comics. No other medium discourages people from engaging with it. Movies are better enjoyed in order. Music albums are better enjoyed in order. Novels are better enjoyed in order. TV shows are better enjoyed in order. Games are better enjoyed in order. Even porn doujins are better enjoyed in order. Only with american comics you are expected to disregard previous entries and read whatever because it doesn't matter.
>mangaUnique stories with different characters in different situations>comicscapeshit capeshit capeshit
>>291611557The opposite is true retard
>>291612612idk man, the definition of anthology seems to fit the bill>>291612832Hard to say, people return to the other staples, but it hasn't technically been that long since those ended. That being said, the format wouldn't really allow it to reach the same state as comics, even if they reboot/remake One Piece, it's WSJ, this reboot/remake would be along other series>>291615445It's not great but it's not that grim, as long as you remember to move everything to a newer hard drive, you'll be fine. You can even burn things you particularly care abou to M-disc>>291616416I see>Imagine if Dragon Ball and Naturo moved to their own booksYep, it'd be a grim world
>>291618372>Games are better enjoyed in orderI can think of multiple examples where playing in order would be the worst experience. I agree with the rest of your post though
>>291613070Yes, you do.
Because you're a dumbass
>>291620470For example? Even slop like FIFA or COD can be better appreciated with an understanding of what came before and how the graphics and mechanics evolved.
>>291621211-Shin Megami Tensei (People often recommend you start on 3, 4 or Strange Journey) -Grand Theft Auto (1 and 2 are too different from what people like about the series overall, and even fans of 3 admit it can be hard to get into)-Final Fantasy (People tend to mostly recommend 6, 7 and 10)-Fire Emblem (Most people tell you to start from Awakening)Older entries on these aren't bad, but they can be hard for someone new to get into and are best appreciated when you're already a fan
>>291621490>Shin Megami Tensei (People often recommend you start on 3, 4 or Strange Journey)>peopleThose aren't people, those are lesser beings. 1 and 2 are great. So are the first to Megami Tensei games.
>>291621829refer to>Older entries on these aren't bad, but they can be hard for someone new to get into and are best appreciated when you're already a fan
>>291621490>-Shin Megami Tensei (People often recommend you start on 3, 4 or Strange Journey)That is the case because 3 is one of the most available games and the one everyone started with simply because it was the first (mainline) game translated.But if given chance, i would totally recommend 1 because there are a lot of callbacks and motiffs that you won't get.>>291621863A japanese kid in 1992 could do it, why not someone in the big 2020s with internet, fast forward and save states at his disposal?
>>291621863I started with SMT1 as a 10 year old in America using an emulator and the at the time brand new patch from Aeon Genesis, no reason newfags these days can't start with SMT1 and the newer patches that don't make introduce new bugs to the game like fucking up endings or making it so the antique store at the start won't ever change to selling guns.
>>291621829>So are the first to Megami Tensei gamesNo one who has actually played those games would say this.
Yeah we all know Japanese media defies time and doesn't abide by chronology or anything.
>>291621863 (Me)Tying it back to this board's topic, there's the issue of commitment, if you want to read or watch JoJo in order, parts 1 and 2 aren't that long, so someone who doesn't particularly care about them (I say this as someone who likes them but understands why someone might not) can still go through them in a reasonable timeframe and appreciate the callbacks in parts 3 and beyond. With a series like SMT, playing in order means sitting through multiple 20-40 hour games you might already be on the fence about before you get to the (generally agreed upon) best of the series>>291621895>>291622048A Japanese kid in 1992 only ever played games released in 1992 or before. Not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying that there's only so much you can ask of a newfag before they give up. I'll even admit, someone who does start from the beginning will have a deeper appreciation for later entries, I'm not arguing against this, I'm arguing that most newfags won't have the patience for doing this
>>291622148Release order is the correct order for all forms of media
>>291618556how is collecting and reading 100 volumes easier than 6 issues?
>>291622169>With a series like SMT, playing in order means sitting through multiple 20-40 hour gamesWhich is a reasonable timeframe for jrpgs
>>291611557bait isnt what it used to be
>>291616416I think you could argue that's why western comics stagnate in comparison. Shueisha COULD run One Piece in its own magazine after it already became big by running alongside other series, but then people wouldn't discover other series and give them as much of a chance to become hits.Do you want short term sales or for the medium to prosper?
>>291611557I prefer old Disney comics.
>>291617565It's just a joke image that flips the format of an image that says the opposite. (where do you start reading Superman/Spiderman/whatever)
>>291622227>you might already be on the fence about
>>291618372>No other medium discourages people from engaging with it.No other medium really encourages it either.You mention movies, but often film franchises want people watching the newest shit regardless of investment. You didn't need to watch Terminator 1 to get Terminator 2, which is part of why Terminator 2 is one of the most successful films of all time.>Music albums are better enjoyed in orderThe majority of people don't do this.>Novels are better enjoyed in order.Narnia, for the past fifty years, has been released in chronological order rather than release order.People start with LotR instead of The Hobbit.>TV shows are better enjoyed in orderI'd say yeah, but most people still just hop onto the newest entry.>Games are better enjoyed in order.That medium outright disproves you. One of the most successful games of this year, the new Resident Evil, released on platforms that are missing over half the franchise, or almost the entire franchise.
>>291622090Nta, but the KMT remake versions are pretty fun.
>>291622397i do in fact argue that and i agree with you, i'm just explaining why they did it (more short term sales)
>>291611557Isn't it the exact fucking opposite?
>>291611557The recent live action Naruto discourse got me thinking, why are people far more critical about changes in animated or live action adaptations or manga compared to ones in comics?
>>291611557the dumbest thing about this post is that absolute batman already has that typical comicbook issue where you have to continue off a certain absolute superman issue to get the proper chronological read of absolute batman. Meanwhile, you dont ever have to fucking kinnikuman or slam dunk to finish db
>>291613703You should have been around the block enough times to intuit that the OP was immediately reposted to Twitter after the thread was made.
>>291622991Easy answer: Even among comics, there are already multiple versions of every story, so the demographic is already more open to changes. This doesn't happen with manga because they're continuous series by one author; Sam Raimi's Spiderman gets to be Sam Raimi's Spiderman, just like Dan Slott's Spiderman gets to be Dan Slott's Spiderman separate from Stan Lee's Spiderman, with Naruto, there's only Kishimoto's Naruto in the manga space, and only Pierrot's Naruto in the anime space (which will always be compared to the former), any future project will always be unfavorably compared to these two
>>291611557I assume this is easy bait aping on the fact that comics are a nightmare to properly get into?
>>291622977>>291623287The joke is that Absolute DC is easy to get into.
>>291622991Short answer, no one reads comics so no ones cares.Long answer, comics are shit so any changes are going to be an improvement.
Flash Vol 2 is kino and the proof about "relaunch and continuity confuse readers" is a lie.Wally story start after Eobard murder,Trial of the Flash(Barry), Crisis and Teen Titan ,but nobody gave a shit about that and just liked Wally story.Same with all people who started GL with Geoff, or people who started Dragon Ball with Super
>>291623065>you have to continue off a certain absolute superman issue to get the proper chronological read of absolute batmanYou don't. Why are you lying?
>>291623386>people who started Dragon Ball with SuperI seriously doubt this ever happened. DB was a global, multigenerational cultural phenomena. Everyone alive knows about it.
>>291611787Because japanese anthologies work by letting young authors that wouldn't make it past HR in the west publish whatever original ideas and stories they come up with. They have thousands of young authors sending them drafts and pitches for their own stories. Marvel and DC would only use their own characters for financial reasons and only pre-select from a bunch of writers and artists they already have on staff , they'd not be able to replicate this at all, because it would mean the financial risk of publishing material that is not owned by them and might not sell. So they never nurture real new talent. Also marvel and DC are highly nepotistic, because they're not really looking for creatives but for people who can draw Spider-Man fast and cheap while some crusty gen-x boomer writes the lamest cringe shit you can imagine. (I know this first hand because I was friends with a girl from the marvel milkshake girl clique)
>>291622090The only mistake I made in that statement was missing the w in two. They're fun games if you actually like old RPGs.
>>291623472Knowing about is not the same as having watched it or read it. Plenty jumped on the Super bandwagon simply because it was the popular thing at the time.
>>291623610There's old RPGs, and then there's paleolithic RPGs. The latter are only fun if you enjoy being tortured with shit like level drain and lack of save points.
>>291611592A much better idea for this thread.
>>291611592Threads here are just twitter runoff now
>>291611986>Soft Serve was a mutant who can poop ice cream. She has control over the flavors she produces and can poop "pretty much all" the different flavors of ice cream.Western comics are saved.>At first, Bob Quinn stated that Soft Serve had very different "plumbing" than regular humans, but upon further consideration Quinn decided that her body was instead a portal to the ice cream dimension, with "pooping" being just a colloquialism for the bizarre location of the portal Besides, it's likely Soft Serve doesn't even poop at all.Never mind.
>>291626099JoJo part 10 MC confirmed
>>291623434You have to read 2 issues of absolute martian manhunter, you fucking retard.
