Vanilla Redux. NO futa or trans characters. NO AI.- This general *is* for: FFXIV OCs, finding /gposing partners, help with modding, and lewd art that you either drew or commissioned yourself.- This general *is NOT* for: posting twitter/r34/booru/fanart content you didn't make, other FF games that aren't XIV, make a separate thread for that - you're allowed to. Catbox/imgchest is suggested for explicit hrothgar/shortstack pics due to board rules.- DO NOT POST: futa/shemales/traps/transgender, diapers, hyper, snuff/guro, hardcore bdsm, men being pegged/inserted (gay or 'straight'), beastiality, QoS/blacked, scat/watersports/smegma/farting, AI content. NO links to get around rules for the aforementioned.Reminder to *report* ~and~ *ignore* all off-topic content and derailing.Do NOT engage with any shitposting, off-topic bait/drama, futa, diapers, derailing, spam, etc. Report textfucking/HMV/PMV/lyricspam/cock or cum tribute/blacked/youtube rap/twitter repost/advertising posts from the /trash/ spammer(s).>Previous Thread>>8943806SFW/Main Thread>>>/vg/xivg/M/M Thread>>8870807F+ Thread>>8949571ERP/Hardcore/etc>>8942616>>>/trash/heals>>>/trash/flg>Lewd Modding Quickstart https://rentry.co/xivlgquickstart>Lewd Modding Resources & Discords https://rentry.org/xivlg
QED
>>8958894pretty bunwife
>>8958916
>trolls all day>other thread is just one guy arguing with himselfbrazy
>>8958897Do you pose with malezen?
>>8958976I don't even exist anymore.
>>8958973It’s literally one retard from /trash/, he’s just been skinwalking the grey bun and seething about trannies for years.
>>8958973This thread is literally just some schizo posting someone else's images from years ago
>>8958982Is it me?>>8958983Interesting because you've been reposting my ancient images all day.
>>8958985>Is it me?yes
>>8958983>>8958977hmmgonna contribute?
maaan
>>8958985No, unless you’re the idiot who made the falseflag collage OP as well.
>>8958990Perhaps.
>>8958988>>8958991dont even care about the drama, just post more raen
>>8958987No, I think I'll go to bed. I'm not surprised you're still trying to use me as a scapegoat though, you really are as unhinged as everyone says you are.
Skinwalker-kun's really going all in tonight.
>>8958993go to bed in the ocean GT
can you niggers at least post porn if you're going to argue and sext nonstop
L’fah was right.
Help.. please.. need.. femroes...
>>8959031
>>8958982>the grey bunIt's Tsrazami/Onasha/Jhazda/Tikaasi/whatever the fuck name he uses this week. Known admitted schizo who keeps going off his meds.
>>8959087Kind of fucked up how /vg/ has jannies but /aco/ doesn't.
>>8959671cute slut
Not using this thread!~ Fuck you and your ugly gray futrannie rava.
>>8959746Those proportions are pretty silly, your toon would look way better if she weren’t borderline hyperPAWG.The pubes are nice, though.
>>8959746How adorable, mr. skinwalker must really like me, he even went out of his way to copy the original filename instead of just putting back up the images he downloaded from the thread.To still be hung up on this a whole day after the fact is a little pathetic though, desu, not gonna lie.
>>8959761Eh, to each their own. Some people like the way she looks, some people don't, some people turn into hilarious psychotic schizos on the internet over it.I'm happy to ignore them, it'd just be nice if they'd stop pretending to be me, or at least be a tiny bit less obvious and cringe while they're doing it.
Save a chocobo, ride a jockey.
https://files.catbox.moe/efv5yr.mp4
>>8959786And the people that like it suffer from massive brain rotWhat the hell do you think putting the comments over an image proves? That you are the original? Like you are the only clown that knows how to put an image on top of another image?That proves nothing except that you are a sad individual, seek help
>>8959909Well, other than that the lack of a (you) shows that the first picand accompanying schizo rant wasn't posted by me, but I would've hoped that you've been trolling imageboards long enough by now to know that at least.Anywho, seeing as how you've been (badly) trying to pose as me across two threads, I'm just gonna assume you're off your meds and stop helping you derail the thread. Your issues clearly go a lot deeper than what body shapes other people use in an online video game, kindly do yourself a favor and swallow both barrels.
>>8959930>Well, other than that the lack of a (you) nta but that literally means nothing adding or removing yous is as simple as pressing a button
>>8959931Woops, well, TIL. Guess I really can't stop him from trying to impersonate me while losing his shit at me every time I post. c'est la vie.
>>8959940Well, all that being said, do you do poses with other folks?
>>8959953I've done it a couple times, but I'm not super confident taking shots posing two characters together. Been practicing with golems to try to sharpen up on composition and all that.Mare going down does make things a bit trickier for the moment anyways.
>>8959930I'm not either of you, you fucking bellend, I wouldn't save your 'content' if you paid me to.Just because someone else doesn't like your garbage either doesn't make them all the same person, If anyone is acting like a schizo here it's you with that line of thinkingI'm just another individual who has always thought your 'content' was fucking revolting and the sad part is that you are so deluded that you legitimately think it is attractive, enjoy it, and think you are some hot shit when in actuality you provide the absolute worse content in every single one of these threadsThe only thing worse than your garbage is the Futa and Femboy bullshit plaguing these boards>>8959931Exactly, that doesn't prove shit and for all we know this jackass is doing it themselves thinking it will make people empathetic of them and more accepting of their slop
>>8959961>>8959962sick double post, bruh
>>8959960There's an MCDExport plugin, if we met up and I dropped you mine would that be cool?
>>8959967>There's an MCDExport pluginlink it
>>8959967Respectfully, I'll probably hold off for the moment, maybe wait a few days for the thread to cool off. Nothing against you of course, just a bit leery of in-game meetups while I'm in the middle of having at least one person hyper-fixated on schizoposting at me.
>>8959971https://github.com/NanaKhide/MCDExportIt basically only exports mcdf files for use>>8959972Understandable.
>>8959976How are you supposed to import them then? Ktisis and Brio don't have the option to import anymore.
>>8959978they're planning to add them though, and if you wanna still make mcdfs right now that's your best bet for it
>>8959978You can import them with ktsis by right clicking on the dummy / character name on the list. Brio does not have functionality still
Shit thread.>>8959746>>8959786This thick hamplanet skank needs to clean my cock cheese with her tongue and gain more lbs!Squeeze my life out drowning my nostrils between those smelly crusty cheeks.
>>8959999samefagging fatass
Bro's really in here same fagging trying to pretend people are interested in his slop further continuing the decline of this thread
>>8960002Mad lol.>>8959930Fuck gay thread rules flood it with more delicious hyper milf tits and belly my sexy queen bitch..Ugh my sweaty rancid gock is aching.
>>8960004Shut the fuck up Jhazda. You’re gay if you can’t goon to her jiggly veiny saggers full of milk and experience.Obese cat milf is the best poster here, no contest.
>>8960007I took this one awhile ago, It should be Bibo+ though
>>8960005>>8960017>Practically Openly Admits to samefagging>Continues the samefagging larp while derailing threads with their revolting characterThis thread is fucked, see you boys at the next one
Play Triple Triad, they said, it'd be easy, they said...
>>8960051Melt.
>>8959786shrunken head
How do you guys make good expressions for lewd gposes? That's the part I struggle with, especially with all the new face bones in DT and having to rely on position instead of rotation now.
>>8960122Don't underestimate how much starting from an in-game expression really helps. Also, bear in mind the A bones are what you primarily use, and the B bones are for fine tuning the expression. Lastly, I like to use the "Face Camera" and "Track Camera" options to just get my golems facing the way I want out of the gate.
>>8960131Good tips, especially the A/B bones stuff. Do you use any particular tool for doing faces? I'm still using Penumbra out of habit, but I think it's probably time to retire it in favor of more modern options out there.
>>8960134For posing the faces? I'm plain old used to how Ktisis works honestly, although I end up needing to turn the skeleton on and off all the time to see the results. Brio is probably better for clarity but you'll likely end up using both. I tend to use Brio for most of its features and then pose them in Ktisis.
>>8960116I've been trying various ways to make my head a bit bigger to keep proportions reasonable, but when I try to scale it using the usual methods things get really weird really fast. It feels like the eyeballs aren't considered parented to the head bone so they don't scale with it, and I can't even really describe all the things that go wrong around the nose area.If anyone happens to know a reasonable way to scale heads up without the model getting all fucky, please do let me know. It's been driving me up a wall for like a year now.
>>8960176No easy solution, just gotta tweak it until it all fits nicely. Maybe someone has made a c+ preset for it on xma?
I miss this couple
Gib femezen plzBonus points for glasses
I'm a fairly decent artist without a portfolio that's looking to quickly build one up, instead of drawing NPCs I figured I'd offer free art of people's characters instead.Is this the right place to offer, if not where would a better place be? Pic unrelated, I'd share my art if I had any which is kind of the whole point of this...
>>8960530you could try xivg, it's more populated, and people there will climb over each other for free art
>>8960532Thank you, I'll try!
>>8958916>>8958918need more of this gilf
>>8960530I mean, willing to do a hrothgar male? Looking for male, female, sfw, nsfw? Thatll help you find people to model for you.https://files.catbox.moe/520swm.jpghttps://files.catbox.moe/aod2fi.pnghttps://files.catbox.moe/nsfjl2.png
This place is on the verge of sucking again. Please keep talking about posing techniques.
>>8961005I've been really lazy today and not made anything new with my bunny boy. So for the purposes of keeping it productive, can I ask how you got that picture looking so smooth? I tried taking my picture into paint.net and using the soften but it fucks with the lighting.
>>8960943Not you
>>8961005Blessed femroe...
>>8961025Then give some indicators on what you want
>>8960943>>8961074You've been told so many times how to take better pictures, both here and the gay threads. I'm starting to think you're a troll.
do i have permission to be a whore here.
>>8961192god yesas often as you want
>>8961192yeah we love whores here
>>8961224yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay
pose is weird on this one i could not get this damn body to look right ohwell
ok im done for now. aftercare :D
>>8961189These are old ones I had laying around. Im shit at gposing and taking pics, so Ive not done it in awhile.
>>8961230poyo i have a questionive seen you sometimes make lewd recordings and stuff in the other threadwould you ever do VA stuff for lewd things like a gpose video or whatever?
>>8961236in all honesty most of my "lewd recordings" are me jokingly moaning into my mic while wasted, THAT BEING SAID, i wouldn't be opposed to it.. i've done a few custom voice stuff for people in the past but it's been a while, and there's the difficult factor of living with people (my fpowner wouldnt care and would just (affectionally) bully/tease me for it), my elderly roommates don't speak a whole bunch of english/care about me but its still awk)
>>8961239>"lewd recordings" are me jokingly moaning into my mic while wastedwell yeah but they are still good :)also notedcould be fun if i can think of something!
>>8961074More than the absolute bare minimum
>>8960530that would be awesome!do you want ref pics or anything?
creamy
>>8961365I saw this femzen in the other thread and she was looking thicker than usual, got any full-body shots with the new look?
>>8961468You might be mistaken, it's just the outfit she has on atm.https://files.catbox.moe/7h8i7w.png
>>8961469That outfit definitely accentuates her curves, what clothes are those? I might just steal them for my femezen...
>>8960943I'm unfortunately not very good with furry/non-human races, sorry...>>8961353That should be enough, check back in a few hours!
>>8961192>>8961226>>8961229>>8961230Do I have permission to tribute your pictures? Its been years. I just want to do it once for you. Its a dream of mine.
>>8961577awesomei look forward to it :D
>>8961498the top is called "[Anno] Spring Breeeze YAB"bottoms & shoes are from Yurippie - Mango Loco
How do you fuckers actually have the inspiration to churn out so many pictures, I find myself completely out of ideas more often than not
>>8961599read more porn
>>8961614Take it to >>>8949571
>>8960530If you are still offering, I'd love to have some art of my bunny
Thought I'd be clever and create the effect of discarded pants by having a golem that would wear the pants and then be hidden somehow and I realized halfway through I have no idea how to do that if it's even possible.Ah well, how's everyone else doing?
>>8961646>I have no idea how to do that if it's even possible.https://www.xivmodarchive.com/modid/80050>Ah well, how's everyone else doing?sleepy..gl anon!
>>8961646I use these, you can check out the minions tag on XMA for props to add as actors https://www.xivmodarchive.com/modid/53902
>>8961580Fuck off.
>>8961741Just ignore and report that stuff, they know it’s against rules and don’t care.
>>8962228Hey, did you ever figure out the head scaling issues?
>>8962260Unfortunately not, at least yet.One of my friends *did* propose something that's technically a solution, if a pretty untenable one, of just 'scale the root of the character up and then literally scale and position every single bone in the character that isn't their head back down to normal'. I don't think that's feasible in any practical sense, so I might literally have to go into blender and scale the head model up -- though that would cause skeleton problems as well...Funny enough, at least head-to-height ratio, in theory I should look perfectly proportional, it's not like the actual height of my character's body or length of her limbs have changed at all. Her head just looks small because her tits and thighs are so big.
>>8962266I guess there's worse problems to have, right? It sucks there's no easy solution, I suppose. She looks pretty hot!I think I gotta start being more willing to just lock in and settle on a screenshot when it's good enough but I don't like doing that.
>>8961623>>8961650>>8961703>>8962230good posts
fuck fuck fuck why is this happening
>>8962228>>8962260>>8962266>>8962275Touch grass and stop samefagging, no one likes your unattractive slop
>>8962415Just stop replying and do what >>8961927said with the hyperbeast
>>89624154 replies, only 2 (you)s'Samefagging'. lol, lmao, even.
>>8962396never mind i figured it out (ivcs and yas were on at the same time) but getting the pose was such a pain in the ass and i didn't get the expression ahead of time and trying to make a maniacal grin did not pan out. i'll try again tomorrow.
If you can't get off to fucking a weird moonie in a catacomb are you even normal? (You probably are but she's the one with the stabby thing so you'd best not disagree.)
>>8962625My wife...
>>8962625This viera scares me.
>>8962355thank you, kind anon
>>8962625My lover............
goat
elf
>>8963316Why's that cat laughing
>>8963377Cum2Mateus coded femra
>>8963393she gets to see boobs
>>8962625Anal
>>8962842I want to hurt her tits
>>8963757calm down saar
>>8963757Why would you do this?
>>8965016Ah best girl returns, I should chat you up again sometime soon.
>>8965016f+ brainrot proportions
>>8965033Nope, just regular ol' hentai brainrot. Have some milk, it'll calm ya down.
>>8965033Yeah he is in that thread spamming it despite not having one, glad he learned his place finally.
>>8963316felezen
need middie titties...
>>8961365More people need to handle the taste and smell of semen.
with ID verification and muskbanningis the age of twitter goonmaxed plapbeasts over?where did they go? are there any other platforms for sharing photo shopped disgustingly goon fumigated pictures?
>>8967313the futa thread is linked in the op
>>8967317im shtiting myself
>>8967313Discords and balmung QS are the answeror if you can write, mateus
>>8967322>xDdd
Need a moonie wife to lewd
>>8967995>>>/vg/
>>8969258sex
the new planet has great sights...
With Mare being gone, it seems like the ERP scene is dying quite a bit. That was my main reason for logging in for the past three years.As a parting gift, here's my porn stash: https://mega.nz/folder/Z1gEUIRL#rL5G2Zm68D_8xEgDwtU4DQGG, friends. I'm probably going to check out different MMOs that don't need mods for their ERP scene to survive. I'll unironically probably end up in WoW.
>open thinking it's the pink cat>just a bunch of boring npc twitter savesglad erpers are dead
>>8970165I'm a part of the discord server that hosts that pink cat.That pink cat has a penis.
>>8970165It's the same trannyporn spammer as usual why do you think their shitposts would be good?
>>8970116I'm gonna be real with you, anyone bowing out because Mare is gone is retarded. Use your imagination.
>>8970921I completely agree, and I didn't even play the game modded.The whole scene is just fucking gone, man.
>>8971024The only cat i'd ever wanna shoot my shot with.
>>8971342No it's not, you're just a retarded cunt looking in the wrong places. The scene is alive and fine on Balmung and Mateus. Even the fucking erp threads on trash are lively. Here you are crying in a thread for images that prohibits erp instead of finding it in 2 seconds.
>>8971366They do it on purpose.
>>8970116>found a pic of mine in therenaughty anon...
>>8970116Hehe~ Glad you enjoyed my musky sweaty saggy translady sloshers~ Come give me your discord and sniff and lick the smeggies clean my cis slut..
anyone know where to find all the stuff seen here?
>>8972182>Lewd Modding Quickstart https://rentry.co/xivlgquickstart>Lewd Modding Resources & Discords https://rentry.org/xivlgread the OP
>>8972182Lick the stinky slimy truffle butter off of my gock and I’ll spoonfeed you :3 You can be my newest bimbo hyperPAWG slut in training~
>>8967150your whore mum handles enough for all of us
>>8972193I've been browsing archives, but didn't find these in particular which is why I was asking if someone recognizes them. Mayble I'll ask on discord. Thanks!
>>8972182If you mean the actual pieces of gear, the top should be this - https://www.xivmodarchive.com/modid/135669The rest looks pretty basic and easy to find on XMA
>>8972482ALL of it, you dumb bitch..
>>8972520fuck off if all you want is to be spoonfed everything
>>8972707Link it.
>>8972482>>8972182dont know what the other guy is about, but thanks for the link. I'm new to modding ff14 which is why I dont know where to look. I posted that old screenshot and asked for everything thats shown. The setup in that image looks very modded up compared to the actual game.
>>8973301No worries, this general has been made unusable by retards who want to troll and equally retarded idiots taking the bait and they both succeeded in driving away the regular posters so there’s not much to see anyway. The rentry links in the OP have most of the things you’ll need to know for body mods and how to set up penumbra and so on, https://xivmodarchive.com and https://unvaulted.coomer.party are the first places you’ll want to look for outfits
>>8973563roegadyn women can save the world if we all accepted their greatness
>>8973325Not helpful, I asked for all the mods in the image I posted not glorified google links.
>>8973325Thanks. I actually have everything setup. Now I'm just looking for stuff to make it look as nice as this. I don't have the eye to identify everything yet though. Bodymod for example looks like RUEXB+ or EXQB RUE, but I'm not sure.
How is the QS looking since Mare went down? I don't wanna sub just to take a peek at the state of the modded ERP scene. I heard a couple alternatives are up but people were saying it costs a lot of money to allow a lot of people to connect to these kinds of mods, so I don't see how it could work out especially if the community is split between what to use.
doll segsmore later when im not too lazy to edit
Glad to get back into posing.
>>8974501That body does look like RUEXB+ to me, I think I've seen that particular face on unvaulted. I'd check out some of the discords mentioned in uploads for Rue upscales, or the ruexb+ dev's discord, they upload a few things there.
>>8974566built for big white highlander cock desu
The ears look like the pepoo ones and the face is just a vanilla one with makeup over it, makeups completely change the looks of faces so that could be what you're missing
>>8974549wrong thread troon
>>8974551ohfuck you fandaniel
>>8975302
>>8975378
>>8970116What sorcery are you doing to make images that high resolution? Are the animated ones in blender? Can you please tell me your workflow. I'm not even a gooner, I just really like how you setup the lighting and stuff.
>>8975411You retarded or something? I didn't make any of those. lmoa
>>8975553Yeah I'm assuming everyone who posts here made what they posted like 90% of people who posted faggot. Fucking kill yourself.
>get 90k error two hours into making an incredibly elaborate sex pose that was 98% completeAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-I just made something quick and lazy to cope.
>>8977127Sure you saved along the way right? SURELY you didn't just try and hammer it out in one un-saved take.
>>8970116To be honest syncing animations isn't ERP so I don't give a fuck.
my femezen is still banned for laughing at [redacted] so i'm whoring here instead.also genuine question uhm i know guro is not allowed in this thread do her scars/cuts fall under that ? i do not like the other thread very much and would prefer not to post there for that reason alone but also i understand yk ..>>8974551cute doll cute
>>8978865id say those scars are finebut alsoi like scarsim also not even sure id call that guro>cute dollty :D
>>8978883slay.. just making sure cause things labels get tossed around i also agree its at the very very most ryona but not guro.. also i didnt realize that was one of your golems vvvv nice ur skill strong as always
>>8978886:D
>>8977363I was in the groove and wasn't thinking of such things. Too lost in the vibes. Now it's gone forever, like tears in the rain.
femrawr..
>>8979022her chuddy mouth looks weird here but otherwise cute. i like her in this form a lot with this hair very very very cutesit.
blaaaaaaaaaaa
>>8979024built for bmc
>>8978949God I wish that was me...Do you fuck with bunboys...
>>8979022built>>8979024for>>8979098abuse
>>8977982i like thist. king arthur
im so bored>>8979113what does the m stand for ..>>8979364yes
>>8979873monster
>>8979881oh then So true!!
oh hey I had no idea this place existed I just browse /xivg/-->DO NOT POST: (huge ass list)bruh
>>8979991yeah its kind of irritating especially since theres a lot that feels like its up to interpretation (like how hardcore does something need to be to be classified as hardcore bdsm?)
>>8979217I don't really ERP or whatever. Mostly just make screenshots and stuff!
la modbeasta..
>>8980021To be honest I intended that less as ERP which I am too ADD brained for and more like screenshot collabs or something. It's cool either way, I was asking in a moment of weakness.
>>8980132la mod beasta 2 sorry im so fucking bored
>>8978886omg i love you when youre caged :)
>>8980145finally some good fucking content
>>8979991mostly just to keep this thread relatively (straight) vanilla which would otherwise become drowned out, which is why futa and gay have their own threadsthe other things are not allowed on this board anyway (but has to be said given XIV players can't read) or just plain repulsive
>>8958894
>>8979991>Bruh/aco/ would be flooded even more with jews jeets and third worlders fucking up the board with blacked and AI shit 24/7 I'll take this over what /gif/ is
>>8981341this is great
>>8979991>>8979997Nobody cares, go to the available thread that wants your fetish shit instead of crying like a baby bitch boohoo :’(
Hairy Femezen pussy
>>8982754So rare and blessed, I wish I could have one shoved into my face daily.
>>8981341Is this the same raen who used to post with pigtails, like a year ago or more?
>>8979022Very glub
>>8983207You collab? I'd like to meet up.
>>8983787cute... how did you get the lighting so good?
>>8983787Wife? Wife.
>>8983207nice jpegs and neck seam lmao
>>8983787WIFE!
>>8983787cute femzen
blublublub i have no idea how actually good this may look im hallucinating on drugs. bye.
>>8984710Buuuuuun...>>8984675That femezen could get even better view, maybe even get her face sat on...
>>8984978Bun? Bun!
>>8985329I've missed this bun and your soft lewds... Hope you're doing okay! <3
For some reason, posing sphene doing degen shit is more entertaining than doing content these days
Not sure if vanilla beats sweat cream...but it's close.
My mcdfs don't work anymore how do I fix that?
>>8958916>>8958918What shader is this? Looks great.
>>8985733are you using the ktisis test build cause that has offline mcdf support
>>8986115I only have brio do I need ktisis?
>>8985385TRVTH NVKEthe gameplay has gotten stale, we're given different number etc etcgiving us new npcs just fills me with new joy because I have new material to work with
>>8986515Need is debatable but its good to have both, they dont work well together if you try to use transforms from both but otherwise its a solid tool in the poser's toolkit
nyeh
>>8986515One useful button Ktisis has that I find myself opening it up for even though I mostly use Brio is the 'move camera to target model' button. Helps a lot recentering the camera on a character after moving them to another spot in a room without actually screwing with janky camera controls.
>>8988302Brio is definitely a more robust tool but I am much more used to Ktisis when it comes to moving bones around. I feel like Brio tends to behave oddly with pose importing but maybe I'm the one doing something wrong.
>>8988302ugly ass hyper cow
>>8988302How about a button that moves you to Coeurl where I can mating press you
>>8988302I need you to come to Lich so I can mating press you.
>>8988516Can you come to Lich so I can mating press you
Fiddies.
Does anyone know of any mods for Merlwyb? She’s got this custom skin tone for her face and the neck is thinner than normal. I’ve searched mod archive but no luck. I’m surprised there isn’t more love for her!
>>8988724I don't think I've ever really seen anyone try to fix it, I believe it mainly is an issue for body mods and thus it's just always been a thorn nobody really notices.
>>8988494>>8988500>>>/trash/
>>8989077Can I mating press you
Where do I find someone to mating press my femlala
>>8989167This is a porn thread, not an erp shitden. Go to the erp threads.
Does anyone have the twitter of that one aura with comically oversized tits?
>>8989414Void_blessed? Hasn't posted anything since 2023 but that's what came to mind based on that description.
>>8989267why do you think mentally retarded trannies care they always do it on purpose