>>31674404
Theres some truth to the black and the redpill both. There even used to be truth to the bluepill when the social fabric was more stable
Its a stupid idea to have to attatch your identity to a party like that. Thats why democrat x republican politics is hilarious for outsiders. The lines drawn are arbitrary, in other parts of the world you can have a commie party pushing for guns or a right wing one defending the environment. But no, if youre American you have to choose between one of them, you can only have one of two pre made personalities
Same thing here. People blindly accept totally either the entire ideology or nothing
Reality has more nuance than that
Women care a lot about looks and there is a threshold, yes
However, womens attractions is reactive and more malleable than mens, so if you push the right buttons you can go from neutral to fuck material in her eyes
Therefore, both red and blackpill have valid points

>>31674438
I agree but these redpiller idiots are also wrong about how to "push the right buttons".

Most of the stuff they say you have to say just shows you're not listening and don't care about the woman. It's just common sense that that's not a good idea. Even that "how to make friends and influence people" book, which is normie and mainstream with very obvious stuff, debunks that.

They're also all about cold approaching which is just retarded because you don't know the women you're cold approaching. If you meet women in other ways you know them better before you show interest in them. That's obvious too.

And the worst part. Most of their arguments are based on projections about what they think women should find attractive. They don't care about what women think lmao

I'm an incel and even I know they're not making any sense

>>31674543
Theres a difference between early 2000s PUA, late 2000s/early 2010s redpill blogs, and late 2010s/early 2020s RP youtuber grifters
PUAs was just techniques
The blogs talked about the theory behind it
The grifters rexycle talking points from before without understanding and with a view solely towards producing more content and making more money
What you say is true about 3 but not about 1 and 2

>>31674631
some of them are just saying stupid shit that sounds alpha just to gain zoomer followers, that's for sure

>>31674740
Yeah
Also the criticidm in your OP also kinda holds for the OG PUAs, they were both too focused on techniques, and used some that were morally duvious like negging, which were also counterproductive because they select for bad quality, insecure women
There is two reasons for why they focused on that: one is because they are overcompensating, so they need to go to the extreme of seeing women as whores to take them off the pedestal of goddesses. The other is that these men are often semi autistic so they try to kin max their way through life, which is stupid
Using techniques is still wrong, not morally only, but even the effect is still reduced. You gotta internalize it and turn into the mysterious thing called rizz
Models by Mark Mason is probably the best book to read to get girl. Also some blogs like Rational Male and RedPillRoom

>>31674404
>I legit don't understand how there's forums and communities with thousands of men trying to figure out how to be successful with dating and fail so miserably at even just looking at it with basic common sense. Like how stupid are they.
Same exact problem as incels, all discussion, no real world application

>Incels get discredited and misrepresented a lot, but we were right all along:
Nope

>If you're not attractive, it's over. And if you have to try, she's not interested. It's that simple.
Literally everyone sub Leonardo DiCaprio or millionaire rapper/sports star level has to try, so that's just dogshit reasoning

>>31674404
I know women don't realize this from their perspective, but if guys just accepted that women didn't want to talk to them (even if that were true/obvious), then nobody would ever be dating or in relationships, at least until women course corrected and had to actually learn to participate.

>>31675006
didn't happen. none of the hundreds of 5'8" LatAm goblin couples with five shreiking children you see each day are real. Literally impossible if you're not top 20℅

>>31674957
The only successful relationships I ever had was where the girl actually wanted to hang out. It was as easy as hanging out with a friend. This has probably happened maybe 10 times out of 1000+ interactions with women. They make it so easy if they are interested.

Pre red/black pill I used to lose my mind when my friend would tell me stories how he would dm girls to invite them somewhere he was going and they would say yes. Meanwhile I'm all confused no 3 week long song and dance trying to convince them why they should like me.

The harsh reality is civilization ending desu that's why the cope is so overwhelming.

Incel slang for example to force improvement when it's fucking pointless for a decent % of men.

>>31675048
That has nothing to do with what I'm saying. Of course they're real (I live in a real place, not a hellhole, so it's not real for ME, but I'm sure it's real somewhere). The point is that those relationships exist despite the women's lack participation early on, not because they expressed a desire to be in a relationship with the guy early on.

>>31675064
Saying there has to be initial chemistry is totally different from saying "if you have to try, she's not interested." You still have to try when she wants to hang out. I've seen tons of men fumble obvious interest from women so fuck outta here with that bullshit

>>31675006
yes because talking to someone who doesn't want to talk to you is a great idea

>>31675048
those people didn't get their girlfriend with PUA or redpill tactics, much less by cold approaching. that only works for chad.

>>31674404
>And if you have to try, she's not interested. It's that simple.
This may be the quintessential black pill.

>>31675094
>The point is that those relationships exist despite the women's lack participation early on
Glad you agree incel bullshit is wrong! Strange you would post a thread though if you already knew the truth

>>31675112
>tons of men fumble obvious interest from women
This is just completely untrue. For one, if they were obviously interested, they would just make it clear.

>>31675094
>The point is that those relationships exist despite the women's lack participation early on, not because they expressed a desire to be in a relationship with the guy early on.

cope. if the women didn't want to talk to their boyfriends early on when they met, they wouldn't be in a relationship. if the guy had tried to insist and push through that would be a stupid idea

>>31675138
that's not me, i posted the thread, lol

by the way idk where that guy lives but most ethnic guys don't have a girlfriend. white guys are taking them. but that's a different topic.

>>31675134
>those people didn't get their girlfriend with PUA or redpill tactics, much less by cold approaching. that only works for chad.
they absolutely got it by the Mexican culture equivalent of that stuff

>>31675140
>This is just completely untrue. For one, if they were obviously interested, they would just make it clear.
They did make it clear, and I've still seen guys fuck it up in spite of that!

>>31675150
>t. completely detached from reality

>>31675112
>You still have to try when she wants to hang out.

no you don't

if she's interested it will be easy and come naturally. there should be nothing challenging about it. that's just stupid redpill rethoric, or at least some redpiller's rethoric since according to other poster not all are like that

>>31675165
ok then go approach and hold frame, and when women aren't interested just keep at it and show them how confident you are that you never give up. i'm sure that will get you dates

>>31675164
>they absolutely got it by the Mexican culture equivalent of that stuff
na, normies just don't meet that way

you have to understand that normies are perfectly socially calibrated and they meet thousands of women over years of constant socialization. eventually some of them are interested.

>>31675174
>if she's interested it will be easy and come naturally. there should be nothing challenging about it.
then the only relationships that exist are for multi millionaire celebrities (obviously untrue)

I've seen literal Pac10 athletes known across campus get shit tested and have to bicker with their woman to keep their relationship going. Every single man below 9.95+ in sucker society has to try to pursue and maintain women, it's a fact.

Your position is just like the stupid football player and cheerleader meme people post on here, totally detached from reality. Only 1 in 10000 is naturally a romance prodigy that didn't have to put in significant effort to socialize

>>31675185
Just because this is the only effective way to meet girls doesn't mean it will work for everyone.
You've got the 20% who are just chads that have to beat women away with a stick
Then the remaining 80% have to struggle because women would frankly rather be with chad. This requires some level of persistence in convincing the girl to be with you over time, none of them will ever just be like "omg I really wanna hang out with you more" But there's a cutoff somewhere around halfway through that group where no level of persistence will work. So for people in that group you can try and be persistent and put in effort but it will never amount to anything.

>>31675241
>multi millionaire celebrities

i know since puberty that women are often interested in a man. as in, interested in him. no need for an extra incentive to be with him such as money. it doesn't need to happen to you, you just see it in high school. if you missed that i dont even know what to tell you

>>31675241
>People are only in relationships to argue and compete with each other and others, and not cooporate and work as a team for a better life together
the blackest of pills.

>>31675198
>normies just don't meet that way
delusional. Normie's absolutely meet all the time through cold approach and cliche charming techniques. Theres a reason everyone knows what a pick up line is, because it happens all the time between people that don't know each other!

>>31675241
>Your position is just like the stupid football player and cheerleader meme people post on here
that meme is spot on

btw socializing is not supposed to take a significant effort. people enjoy it otherwise no one would have any friends lmao

i get drained from socializing because im a loser like most people in this forum but that's not the case for normies

>>31675262
ya and I've seen since puberty men fuck up responding to that obvious interest out of the gate! still takes practice to know what to do

>>31675269
>Normie's absolutely meet all the time through cold approach and cliche charming techniques
kek

the reactions im getting are what is expected when introducing the blackpill to people who are high on copium. taking it is like quitting copium cold turkey.

but just think about it. you know im right. if you're talking to a woman and both of you are interested in a relationship, what's hard about that? why would it be a challenge? lmao

if it feels like a challenge, it's over

maybe "if you have to try, it's over" is not completely true because if you don't do the bare minimum she'll think you're not interested. but that's it.

>>31675274
>socializing is not supposed to take a significant effort.
demented and delusional

you can really tell you are a zero effort lazy piece of shit. most people enjoy socializing and exercise and hobbies etc. BECAUSE of having to put effort in to get something meaningful out

>>31675293
lol

i didnt know people outside of reddit believed in the "missed hints" bullshit

here's another pill:
if it's not super obvious she's not interested

>>31675274
>btw socializing is not supposed to take a significant effort.
This is why normies can't help you with it too.
They have sort of vague ideas about how they socialize, but to them it's just natural and they never think about it. I'm not saying it's not learnable, just that normies absolutely suck at teaching it because they basically just happened into being okay at it without having to try.

>>31675313
>"if you have to try, it's over" is not completely true because if you don't do the bare minimum she'll think you're not interested
cool glad we agree thanks for admitting the obvious truth after flailing around like a retard trying to find a way to not have to admit it

>>31675321

chads are lazy and zero effort too. and guess what they still get women

>>31675274
the meme is right about a few things but it's missing the most important part
they have help from their parents, friends, communities, mentors, etc
if the normie fails, they have people to fall back on for encouragement and positive reinforcement

>>31674404
>both people equally shitty at having this conversation
>"uh, well the guy is totally screwing this up, and he sucks, he needs to learn his place"
I genuinely don't understand why she thinks the point she's making doesn't make her sound like a total cunt?

>>31675359
he's the one trying to hit on her and she's not interested

it's her rejecting him, it's not that he sucks

>>31675262
>I conveniently forgot that all the girls in high school only dated the boys from well off families

>>31675371
It looks like a dating site/app. She explicitly did not reject him when they matched. Just ignore 'hey' messages, not waste everybody's time by humoring them.

>>31675323
>here's another pill:
>if it's not super obvious she's not interested
that's just flat out wrong too, I've seen people that loathed each other for a year+ end up together, even after rejecting each other

>>31675396
This is literally a cliche in western culture, but people pretend that it's not a thing.

>>31675374

that's not how it works lmao

the stacy from my high school class nonstop bullied and humiliated a fat guy who was into her (everyone was into her but he was delusional enough to try) and let a chadriguez from ecuador fuck her. lmao

>>31675388
its instagram

>>31675324
>they basically just happened into being okay at it without having to try.
being naturally okay at it is not the same as being able to know what to do to find and maintain a relationship

a particularly charming 12 year old with no social development (say he falls into a 10 year coma) will absolutely not have an effortless easy time picking up 22 year olds, full stop

>>31675411
Would he be better or worse than your average incel/basement dweller "cant talk to girls" type?

Wtf are you dumb cunts babbling about?

Picrel is terrible advice. She's not being obtuse about the conversation, he didn't give her much to work with before he started crying like a bitch.

The reason redpillers and blackpillers and incels and the rest of the losers don't get anywhere with women is because you listen to people just like you with no experience or gane. You ignore if not lament and ostrocise normies with experience and insight, as if reality can somehow be overcome if only ...

What a sad little pitty party, blind leading the blind. You all know what you need to do. You've heard it a thousand times. You just don't want to do it because you're too cowardly

File: 1719892673270959.jpg (77 KB, 1080x867)

77 KB JPG

Blame hoeflation/social media teaching women to be hardasses and look for height/looks>everything else.

>>31674404
I don't read delusional, counter-factual rants on an advice board. I don't read hypotheticals about some people somewhere. I don't read conversations someone is having with himself like the dishevelled guy on a street corner mumbling to no-one in particular.

>>31675712
lol mega cope