>>32601602
Question to reflect on, do you feel alienated and alone specifically and solely because youre a sort of tomboy without any female friends, or is there other causes?

Also, you should consider that this feeling of lonelyness is extremely common among people in their early 20s. Even normies and chads and staceys feel that way at that age. Its perfectly natural since its a point of great change in your life out of childhood and into adulthood and with that, finding out and discovering who you are.

I would suggest you ignore the trans shit completely, its toxic porn slop and will only make your life worse. Instead, focus on figuring out who you are and making and finding friends who are compatible with you.

Also, are you gay or not?

>>32601740
I'm sure there are other causes too. I have always been a bit weird and awkward, I improved a lot in my late teens and socially I'm pretty solid nowadays, but being such a late bloomer regarding social skills was not ideal. I feel like I need to put in effort learning things that are natural for others, I don't know why.
Don't worry, I don't see transitioning as viable. I don't see how it would change my situation at all except an expensive hassle.
I am technically straight but unusual. I'm attracted to men only if I imagine myself with the man, as a man. In real life I would only consider having sex with a woman, because I could imagine myself enjoying myself being masculine in that scenario, penetrating someone and so forth. That would interest me, in a selfish way (because I wouldn't be attracted to her). As for actually having sex with a man, I have no interest.

>>32601822
>to put in effort learning things that are natural for others, I don't know why.
Again, its perfectly normal to be an awkward teen and learn how to socialize. Thats what being a teenager is all about, you arent broken or anything like that.

So you are attracted to men, but only if you can imagine yourself as a man having gay sex with that man? Or imagine yourself having gay sex with a woman, but youre like a butch dyke? I was hinting at if you were homosexual and in the closet about this and this was leading to your anxiety about all of this.

>>32601822
Holy fuck you sound just like me, haha. Like exactly. Turns out I have higher T than what’s usually common in women, (not PCOS, just slightly higher lvls of T). I’m also a diagnosed autistic, and apparently there’s a correlation between female autists and hormonal imbalances. Maybe something *did* happen in the wound— test ur hormone lvls! One might argue female autism is just a retarded man brain— and sometimes I argue this because I was and still am often socializing with primarily men and get along great with them. I’ve never had sex yet because the entire idea of it makes me anxious and/or doesn’t interest me in the slightest. I think I can have a romantic relationship with men or women, so I suppose I’m biromantic(?) As of now, I think I’m asexual and it’s probably due to my chemical imbalances. Who knows, maybe it will change one day as I become more confident and secure in my identity. One thing that helped me was simply not caring too much about any of it— the labels, the norms, my sexuality— it literally doesn’t matter. What matters are the smaller things in my life like friends, good food, fun games, etc. I also find that befriending gay males helped me slowly integrate back into socializing with females. I have two groups now: my straight but admittedly nerdy friends since middle school, and a newer group consisting of gay men and another woman who are more extroverted and “normie.” It’s like a stepping stone/tutorial before interacting with other female normies because gay men still indefinitely have man moments

>>32601836
Thanks, I appreciate what you're saying a lot you're very kind.
It would make so much sense if I was gay but ultimately I am not. I always did investigate in my mind if my masculinity was coming from being gay because all the butch women I know are gay. And people looking at me assume I'm a lesbian. I'm popular with lesbians I've met. But only men are actally attractive to me.

>>32601851
I'm happy to hear this!!! I already know I have high testosterone, and I have a lot of nonfeminine physical characteristics besides (tall, big hands and feet, underdeveloped breasts, etc). And autism, yes, I have been told I had that although I don't really think about that or care. I have a blase attitude generally about nonphysical diagnoses, unless I was hallucinating or something I mostly feel I am what I am.
It's funny, I have had a lot of gay male friends as well as straight male friends, but my friend groups have not really been the typical crowds I think most awkward women attract. I feel super out of place with people who AREN'T normies more than I do with normies. I get along well with women although I never form true friendships with them. My close friends have been athletic types, jocks, a few guys in law school... partiers and drinkers. Very much exuberant people. I have a few introvert friends, but not as many. That's been one of the biggest things keeping me from identifying with any LGBT group, I have never been part of any social circle that was big on that stuff at all, although of course I do respect it.
I wish you luck with everything, I am very happy to hear there's someone who relates to my situation.

Have you been sexually abused as a child? Maybe you can go to a sexual therapist. Would you like to dominate when having sex or penetrate? I mean you can have sex while ditching the traditional female role in sex altogether

>>32602593
No, no sexual abuse. I spoke to a therapist about this a few years ago when I decided to try therapy out but she was not helpful at all and seemed confused by me. The problem with sex for me is beyond genitalia (not something that could be fixed by using a strap on or whatever) I don't want to be perceived as female in a sexual manner. Like I don't even want to be thought of as someone with breasts, vagina, even curvy hips or a softer face or anything, even though I have all these things. I don't want anybody to be sexually attracted to me, because they would be attracted to my womanly body and I don't want them to see me that way. It wouldn't matter if I was on top or whatever, I would still be female. The reason I consider potentially having lesbian sex the exception is because if she is a feminine woman, I would expect she would be attracted to my masculinity, seeing me as the "male" partner, which is fine. But men are not attracted to masculinity and I certainly would not out-man a male partner.

>>32601602
You're currently being a moron stop overthinking u're super special, just try sex with different men, if it doesn't work try with women and see the outcome. I don't see what posting on 4chan is gonna help for

>>32601602
Just check your hormones they sound messed up

>>32601602
something you tranny retards don't think about is that when you are abnormal you lose access to many "normal" things. when you choose (and it is a choice) to be a tranny instead of working on your mental health problems you're choosing to exclude yourself from normalcy

>>32604153
>does anybody have any tips on what I should do to work on my mental health without transitioning
>"WHY ARE YOU TRANSITIONING INSTEAD OF WORKING ON YOUR MENTAL HEALTH????"
Retardation cannot be fixed

>>32604166
the point being you cant have both. you have to completely relinquish the idea that "im in the wrong body why do i notfeel like a woman" before you even start to work on the problem

>>32601602
Before I offer my response, I would like to remind you that the world is full to the brim with esteemed, accredited, lauded, wealthy professionals whose answer to you would literally amount to "mutilate your body, render yourself infertile, become a freak, largely irreversibly". Do not trust the necromancers on these matters.

Anyway my answer is to get some bloodwork first. There is no need to reach for vague physiological or psychological issues when the answer could be as simple as your hormones being all fucked up by some benign tumour on your pituitary or adrenal gland or whatever. Failing that, if you've actually got bros, first of all check your privilege fake-cel and secondly have you considered confiding in them instead of us?

>>32601602
Have you considered role reversal? I know several twink gymbros who swoon for muscle babes.

Otherwise you're just a late bloomer.

>>32604196
I am going to look into getting bloodwork/asking a doctor about this probably soon. I already do know I have high T from a few years ago but I didn't pursue that further at the time. I probably should have investigated every avenue first before making the post, I agree with those of you who have said somethng like "Why even make the post, what do you want??" The answer is just to see what people think, if anything. I don't really talk about this with any friends. Especially the sexual/romantic element. I don't want to bother people with this. I'm sure my friends would care, but they obviously wouldn't have had experience with this and so I don't know what I could ask of them. This is just my attempt to get outside of my own head.
>>32604227
Not into that sadly

>>32604434
Just to be clear, feel free to correct me. You would penetrate a woman, a masculine man, but not a feminine-man, and you want a partner attracted to your masculine traits.

Is this desire purely sexual or do you think it's tied to your personality?

>>32604735
When I say "not into that" I only mean I'm not into having sex with any men in real life. In fantasy I imagine having sex with all kinds of guys I find hot, and there are many of them. I'm not against feminine guys. But in real life I would never have sex with a man. I would always be the weaker, more feminine partner even if I was using a strap or whatever. And any man attracted to me would be attracted to my female features. I find that a massive turnoff.
I don't know what it's tied to. I'm extremely competitive, and I don't care how people package it, it's clear that sex is a power thing. I find it terrible how evolution has made us. Like men do anything for girls they don't even get along with, just because they can provide sex. It doesn't make sense. People throw away their happiness and freedom constantly for sex with someone they wouldn't even like if the person didn't have good boobs or a big dick. Why would that have anything to do with you spending time with someone or getting married to them? What does that have to do with love?
All of this really is just terrible to me. I don't "get it" at all. I feel like sex makes people stupid. This is probably me being autistic but I don't comprehend why anybody would have sex except to exert power over another person. And I don't understand why sex would cause you to feel closeness or love. Sex is mean, it's violent basically. Sex is the same thing as beating someone up. And that's what all my sexual fantasies are like, for me it's like imagining exerting total power over someone hot. And that does appeal to me - the same way imagining winning a fight appeals to me. And it does! Because who wouldn't want to "win"?? But I can't expand it further than that, it's like whatever everybody else extrapolates from it is nonsensical to me. I would never win a fight with someone and then move in with them afterwards cuz it was so much fun to beat them up. Makes zero sense.

>>32601602
>I am a masculine woman in my early 20s.
ok, so tomboy
>Sexually I'm unable to perform with men>
ok, so lesbian
> because I'm completely turned off by the idea of being a female actor in a sexual scenario (and men are not very attracted to the way I present or act, anyway).
ok, so mentally ill
and i honestly cant comprehend the rest of your rant or what you want. its like its not even english. I'm just gonna call you asexual and move on from this madness. maybe you should trans because you're already fucked up

>>32601602
you remind me of an FTM friend I had, what country are you from? you can say just the first letter

>>32601602
Hm
I'm not really sure what you should do I always felt comfortable in the "feminine" sexual role but never felt like I fit in with other women.

It used to bother me more but now that I'm in my 30s it's like, I know what I am the people close to me respect that and that's good enough I don't need to somehow advertise my identity to every stranger my haircut does it for me.

I'm a 37 yo female who lived as ftm for about 6 years (I was on HRT and had a mastectomy) but I detransitioned about 3 years ago. A lot of your story is very familiar to me. I was always very uncomfortable with male attraction to my feminine features and the idea of having sex with a man repulsed me because I don't like the default gender roles in sex.

It took me a really, really long time to get over my fucked up self perceptions and learn what makes me comfortable and how to not compromise on that. I am now dating someone even though I was 100% sure I was going to die alone. He is okay with the fact I don't wear makeup and I'm not traditionally feminine, and he doesn't try to out-manly me or like one-up me constantly the way most men seem to want to do. It is possible to meet men who will treat you like a person first and not just a woman. They are rare and it was a hard search but I did find him.

I don't really have any advice for you I guess. Gender shit is hard and you really have to muddle through on your own before you figure it out.
>>32604924
>it's clear that sex is a power thing
It doesn't have to be though. You have fucked up perceptions because of the toxic ideas you've been exposed to from porn/the media. It's so hard to unlearn this stuff but it's possible to develop a healthier ideas about sex. Don't write it all off just yet.

>>32604924
Thank you for laying this out for me, your words sound like a familiar frustration. I am male (unless stated otherwise of course) but I've had friends and family come to me asking if I'm gay or asexual because I don't partake in the same dynamic. I can usually convince myself that I've let reason overshadow passion, while in secret my desires remind me more of a deranged eunuch. The only healthy way I could see sex is as an act of service leading to a family where those desires can be released regularly.

You could bulk up or dress for how you want to be treated and find a weaker man that only wants you to be happy while desiring him, as far as letting you fist him or whatever. While it would be difficult to trace his reasoning at first, you could slowly coax him into desiring your masculine side after he submits to it. Just understand the entire relationship is going to be centered around sex at that point. Otherwise just find someone attracted to your personality and decide when it's time to spring the question on him about your preferred dynamic. It's rare but not impossible, and at the very least you have something to strive for until you figure yourself out.

>>32601602
Gender nonconformity is not a problem. Simply be yourself (whatever that is) without artificially inventing stresses and problems.
>I am lonely
Bullshit, you have friend groups. You're not lonely, you're horny.