>Um axchually, Alligatoroids are warmblooded>These aren't your grandpa's crocodilians!So now even living groups of reptiles we 100% know are coldblooded are being painted as warmblooded to keep the featherfaggotry alive? The Dinosaur Renaissance and its consequences have been a disaster for paleontology.
Does not follow. Crocodillians don't need to be warm blooded for feathers to arise multiple times in dinosauria. The genes required for just one mutation to result in feather development are so highly conserved modern crocs have them and there is indisputable fossil evidence of dinosaurs with fibrous inegument, identical to what grows from a mutated croc, in multiple lineages including pterosaurs. If crocs are warm or cold blooded, this doesn't change. You are incapable of basic logic.Therefore this is nothing you can respond with except "sorry, I am an idiot, and probably a woman who smells like litterbox".
>>4847351Note: This was not intended to say that pterosaurs are dinosaurs, it's just 8am.But pterosaurs and dinosaurs did share a common ancestor, which doubtlessly had the ability to evolve so that their scales became fibers.
>>4847351Lol I know exactly what that image is from. It's the chinks that tried to claim that Pterosaurs have actual feathers. They got overzealous and spilled the entire pot of beans though. Featherfags called one too many things "feathers" and this paper is basically the smoking gun that NONE of these fibers are integumentary. They're unraveling actinofibrils.https://youtu.be/mw7d6Rj_bcU?t=1113>modern crocs have themNo they don't. Not one person has ever produced a feather from a crocodile. This is fantasy.
>>4847373>noooo it never happenedhttps://www.zmescience.com/science/news-science/aligator-scale-feathers-043242/>NOOO ITS A CHINESE CONSPIRACY! ANYTHING BUT A FEATHER!And yet they keep showing up>f-feathers were never really noooAnd yet birds existThey are theropodsAnd they evolvedFrom a non-bird theropodEvolution is a proven fact, yknow.
>>4847380Crocodilians don't have feathers, nor did their ancestors and only a bot would claim they did. Also, you seem to have forgotten that crocodilians are not warmblooded and never were.
>Crocodilians didn't have feathers>But their genes for scale development easily give rise to feathers>And are basal to archosauria>So feathers arising at least once in avemetatarsalia is extremely plausible>And lo and behold>They arose multiple times>According to indisputable fossil evidence of multiple feathered dinosaursalso i've never heard of a warm blooded crocodile but it's not related to feathers in any way, just that an extinct pelagic croc-offshoot may have been able to raise its body temperature
>>4847388>But their genes for scale development easily give rise to feathersOkay, show me a feathered crocodile or leave my thread. Should be easy since you're so correct.
>>4847391Already happenedEven millions of years after the lineage last split into something that eventually evolved into birds they still hold on to some functional feather-ready DNA
>>4847395So show a picture. There is one, right? Should be easy. There are plenty of images of turning bird foot scales into feathers, since that's the evolutionary path that feathers follow anyway. No feathered crocs, I'm afraid, despite your "just trust me bro" claims.
>>4847384>crocodilians are not warmblooded and never were.People have been saying that the anatomy of the crocodilian heart suggests secondary cold bloodedness for over 100 years now.
>>4847398>refuses to acknowledge that it was already posted
>>4847401Yep, they have, and yet they remain cold as rocks, no matter how big they get.
>>4847402No images of feathered crocodiles have been posted in this thread. Again, this should be easy. A layup even. (YOU) claim that crocodiles just flat out have the genes to produce feathers. Well then why not just fuck with them the way those feathertroons did with chickens to get their feet scales to produce feathers?There's a big o' hole in your credibility here. You're slipping, paleowhore. This one you can't even pilpul your way through.
>>4847403Except for metriorhynchidsOops!Also, birds evolved from theropods, the process of which involved a vast diversification of feathered dinosaurs.
Evolution is a lie
>>4847407So now you're claiming an extinct group of Mesozoic reptiles were endothermic based on just shit you made up?>>4847410Yes we get it, you work for mossad. Shut the fuck up now. You're annoying.
>continues ignoring the factshttps://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/35/2/417/4627828?login=falseyes, feather development was most likely already inadvertently beginning before dinosaurs, or their feathers, even aroseif it were not for that maybe birds would look more like batsjust like how jaw development was beginning when it was a mere gill arch - were it not for that, some other structure would process food (probably a modified limb)
>>4847411>shit you made up?no, google it>NOO I WAS... I WAS....BEING MAD AT BRIAN ENGHWho cares
>>4847412>Continues the tidal wave of propaganda and bullshit.PICTUREFEATHERED CROCODILENOW.Or shut the fuck up. It's that simple. YOU are the one claiming crocodiles can produce feathers, so substantiate your bullshit claim. NOW.
>>4847415https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/35/2/417/4627828?login=false>hundreds of millions of years later>still retain the basal genetic pathways that allowed dinosaurs to evolve feathersthis is just funny trivia, anyways, we already have indisputable evidence of proto-feathers and vaned feathers arising multiple times in dinosaurs and very strong evidence of convergent fuzz development in pterosaursthere's also the birds thingthey had to evolve from somethingand it was dinosaurs
>>4847424>still talking>still no pictures of feathered crocodiles, despite claiming it's possibleStill waiting. This is like watching a political debate. You are habitually avoiding the issue.
>>4847424Also, holy shit you don't know the first god damned thing about Dinosaurs. For real. I literally posted refutations of your bullshit in this very thread and you're not even aware of anything but what reddit believes.
What's your favorite anti-feather tranny cope?Mine is>THOSE WERE SCALED DERIVED ORNAMENTAL STRUCTURESWhich also describes... how feathers would have initially evolved.
>>4847426>nooo let the embryo hatch or it doesnt count
>>4847431>>4847434Still no feathered crocodiles.STILL claiming crocodiles have feather genes.
>>4847437>no the proof that crocodiles can grow proto-feathers doesn't count because it didn't hatch for a photoshoot
>>4847440Funny how the "proof" of feathers in Dinosaurs changes based on what can be produced or what can't, yet the bullshit belief never changes. Almost like featherfaggotry isn't science at all.
>>4847491>proof of feathers in dinosaursyou mean the fossils of dinosaurs with preserved feathers?
>proof of feathers in [sic] dinosaurs
>>4847492Not from china, retard. You know better than this.
>>4847502>muh conspiracy theorywhy come to a dog website to be mad at paleontological facts
>>4847511He actually came here to this borzoi board to be mad at some artists fanfic. The schizophrenia comes second.
>>4847373>PalAsslmao
>>4847606Who are you quoting, idiot?
>>4847531>Reddit tries so hard to take over sitesWe know. You've been trying since 2020.>My fellow 4chan users>I called them a redditor first>remember r/catur...I mean, caturday? epic lulz
>>4847622You're so gross. I don't what shit site you crawled out of but you desperately need to go back.
>>4847625You insult people like a woman
How would ectothermic dinosaurs even work anyway? How is this thing supposed to bask?
>>4847628GigantothermyDinosaur metabolism was a mixed bag.
>>4847622its so obviously him. not many people are stupid enough to conflate funny cat pictures with the website being so cat themed we are somehow required to like cats to an unusual, delusional degree and hate dogs.that's like crystal cafe's position on men.
>>4847531why does reddit live in your head rent free ?
>>4847627>echolaliaBot
>>4847628>>4847629This. The larger Dinosaurs were mesotherms. They still acted like ectotherms though.>>4847656Why the hell don't you fucking get back there? The CIA is still strong on that shithole. You'll only get resistance here, tranny.
>>4847622Lol he literally crumbled as soon as he saw this screenshot. He couldnt even deny it. He just cried. Paleoschizo IS the cat website dog hating schizo. He is the one who always has to insist cats good dogs bad. You can derail any dinosaur thread at the outset just like this: “cats do not control rodents”. Blammo.
>>4847666Except for the endothermic onesAnd the ones that likely did not act at all like ectotherms because why the fuck would they? Their respiratory system implied high levels of sustained exertion
>>4847675You mean like crocodiles? You're a literal idiot. You have the most superficial knowledge about dinosaurs then try to spread nonsense based on it.A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
>>4847708No. They were considerably more derived than crocodiles. By the way, crocodillians with more birdlike respiratory anatomy demonstrate higher activity levels (but they’re not dinosaurs) - and there’s no reason for a gigantotherm to act like an ectotherm. T. rex was an active predator. Most theropods were, and had birdlike metabolic rates. You should know this.
>>4847743>there’s no reason for a gigantotherm to act like an ectothermAnd they didn't.>T. rex was an active predator.So are Varanids. I assure you, they neither have an efficient breathing system nor are they warm-blooded.>Most theropods were, and had birdlike metabolic rates. You have literally zero evidence for this bullshit unfounded BELIEF. Let us be absolutely lightly fucking clear. Your assertions are based on harebrained BELIEFS. They have NOTHING to do with science, nothing to do with evidence. Nothing. And yes, the "scientists" that also spend their entire careers wild ass theorizing like this are also frauds and idiots who aren't doing science. Wild ass theorizing and data manipulation is NOT science.
>>4847759>its a conspiracyNo. They really did have high metabolic rates. Those didnt evolve for flight. They evolved for survival. They just so happened to facilitate one mode of flight. Think of how hands evolved to pick fruit and swing from trees, not clobber enemies and spear mammoths. Or how feathers evolved for signaling, then insulation, and also direction control on land, and then gliding and flight. Not sure about the last parts order but they do more than one thing. Biological features are multifunctional.
>>4847772>Everything I like is the truth, despite evidence to the contraryThank you for you sermon, reverend. But this is a thread about science, not religion.
>I want proof>*proof is shown*>no that's CHINESE propaganda, show me a scene from jurassic park!I hate that this foul beast makes paleo discussion on this board so difficult.
>>4847788There are no images of feathered crocodiles in this thread. You are hallucinating. Please return to taking your medication.
>>4847353>it's just 8amI love how I totally missed you openly admitting you post from israel.
>>4847342>Alligatoroids are warm bloodedNobody said this retard. That picture is demonstrating the discovery of blood vessel networks in the top of a dinosaur’s head that helped keep the brain cool, which is also seen in modern crocodilians. Drawing them as warmer than the surrounding environment is not implying they are warm blooded, go point a thermal camera at a crocodile or lizard that’s been basking and see what it looks like
>>4847373>NONE of these fibers are integumentary. They're unraveling actinofibrils.Ah yes, because that so easily forms the shape of wings and tail fans seen in things like microraptor
>>4847818The picture says it, moron. Your image is from an crocodilian's basked side being warm and the non-basked side being cold. Those Deinosuchus are literally emerging from water. There's no way in hell they're warmer than it.>>4847819Those are Pterosaurs, retard. Stay on track.
>>4847820>the non-basked side being coldYet is still warm compared to the surrounding environment >Those Deinosuchus are literally emerging from water. There's no way in hell they're warmer than it.That depends entirely on how long they’ve been in the water, which you don’t know.Regardless it doesn’t change the fact that the artwork has nothing to do with alligators being warm blooded, but I guess taking 20 seconds to read the context is beyond your capabilities
>>4847820>Those Deinosuchus are literally emerging from waterEntering water doesn’t cool them down instantly. Some reptiles will even bask at the surface of the water without leaving it
>>4847823>Yet is still warm compared to the surrounding environment Gee, I wonder why that is?>That depends entirely on how long they’ve been in the water, which you don’t know.Well considering their Alligatoroids, likely all fucking day.
>>4847838>Well considering their Alligatoroids, likely all fucking day.It’s a fucking drawing, you’re arguing about the circumstances of fiction.
>>4847342In English pls, ESL-kun.
>>4847911Sshh, he can't help it he has autism.
>>4847838>Well considering their AlligatoroidsNo, those are MY alligigatoroids, retardoid.
>>4847911I'm glad we're on the same page that engh's scribbles are pure fiction. Too bad paleontologists don't see it that way.
>>4848058Ah yes, FINALLY, a scientifically accurate crocodile.
>>4848079You were linked the study where it was proven that the genes that allow scales to turn into fibrous integument are so highly conserved that crocs are still 1 mutation away from fuzzYou continue begging for a photo of a hatched specimen as if that disproves it, knowing full well that ethics committees don't allow creating a new species with no niche to live in.
>>4848104STILL waiting on an image of crocodile feathers. You KEEP insisting this is real without any evidence. A paper is not evidence. A paper is propaganda. EVIDENCE IS EVIDENCE. A photograph, a physical specimen. I'm a scientist, not a mossad agent. I require PROOF of your bullshit claims. THEN I will investigate the proof ALSO.
>>4848104You don't have photos of an embryo with feathers EITHER. And PLEASE, you faggots don't have "ethics" even anymore. There's a reason you abandoned morals a long time ago, but you don't even follow YOUR OWN ethical codes anymore. Half the fucking names in Mesozoic paleontology are producing fake papers and creating chimera species and getting away with it.
>>4848058>>4848079Science experts are always right
>>4848111Ah yes, FINALLY, a scientifically accurate skeleton. This species has been incorrectly reconstructed for centuries.
>>4848109>You don't have photos of an embryo with feathers EITHER.It's been proven that gator embryos can undergo induced feather genesis. The paper was linked.I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand without going off on tangents about how all science is fake. Like when you refused to accept endothermic metriorhynchids and called it a "belief" because you... don't understand the data, or refuse to accept reality?or how about when you see a fossil with feathers, you pretend it's somehow an elaborate fake and the entire world is in on it. For what motivation again? When you started posting here as your current persona, you were claiming feathered dinosaurs were turning people gay and that scaled dinosaurs were the only thing ensuring boys grew up to be men. LMAO.Why are you so stupid
>>4848109>>4848107How do you lose every thread you start?
>>4848121Like this. Pilpul doesn't "win" arguments. It just makes everyone hate jews more. The truth will always be the truth and you can't defile it with your subhuman lies.
>I misinterpreted some shitty insert art showing thermoregualtory blood vessels to mean a basking gator was warm blooded, not using water to radiate excess heat -paleoschizo>I thought this somehow supported dinosaurs having feathers, even though there is absolutely no logical connection there -paleoschizo>I denied that clearly real fossils are real because they represent a truth that goes against my beliefs - evolution. I am a young earth creationist. -paleoschizo>I denied random scientific facts because accepting any of them conflicts with young earth creationism. -paleoschizoanywaysdog website
>>4848120>Can't read>Claims to know anythingGood ol israeli education standards. Maybe if you were taught to read anything but the propaganda your own ancestors wrote, you'd actually have the literacy god gave a raccoon.
>>4848126>i can't refute anything i can just screech about jewish conspiraciesever consider that you're just wrong about everything? that your beliefs are fundamentally incorrect down to the core, and you are actively denying reality?
>>4848129Sweatheart, YOU are the one who's spent the entire thread claiming crocodiles have feathers, when we all know they don't, including you.
>>4848127>misrepresentTyrannosaurs didn't have feathers either. Also, I really hope you don't have dogs because you are GUARANTEED fucking them.
>>4848127>dog websiteThis
>>4848131Learn to read. No one said they had feathers. It's just a fact that their scale genes facilitate the evolution of feathers and give us a glimpse of how feathers might have evolved, and why non-scale integument arose from archosaur scales several times. >>4848132Just to be clear, this is a dog website, we don't like toxobrains obsessed with bestiality here, and nobody bothers to argue with you because you can't keep tyrannosaurs, tyrannosaurids, and tyrannosauroids straight. There are feathered tyrannosauroids, but no feathered tyrannosaurids.
>>4848134You have literally spent ALL FUCKING THREAD claiming crocodiles can produce feathers.
Science doggo sez:but did it has feather?
>>4848136"crocodiles can produce feathers" with interference. Despite these copies of the genes having gone through hundreds of millions of years of existence without developing feathers, and therefore probably accumulating some mutations that are contrary to feather development, they can still be prompted to develop feathers.This tells us how and why archosaurs develop fuzz so easily. You see, feather evolution isn't as simple as "this dino had feathers". People want to know how those feathers might have evolved, because that's interesting, and these well conserved genes for archosaur scale development give us a theoretical pathway, since crocodillians are so similar to basal archosaurs. It's not 100% likely that feathers evolved exactly like this, but, well, they DID evolve. Multiple times. The fossils make that obvious. Curios men want to know.I am trying to explain this to you in 8th grade terms. I hope you understand.
>>4848133Science is a dogchad thingPeople who don't like dogs don't like science. They like poetry and pseudo-philosophy.
>>4848140>"crocodiles can produce feathers" with interference.You literally can't even produce proof they can do THAT, despite half the fucking thread just demanding you provide evidence.
>>4848144You have an obvious and unhealthy dog fetish.
>>4848148>fetishI just think they're neat>>4848147It was proven alreadyhttps://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/35/2/417/4627828?login=falseNot that it changes that feathered dinosuars and fuzzy pterosaurs existed, it's just the basis for a fun theory about how
>>4848148dog website
>>4848127Very accurate representation of the retard ittHe’s so hellbent on being a fucking retard he thought brian engh was subtly claiming that alligators were warm blooded and that somehow made tyrannosauroids fluffier lmfaoHe even thought a genetic experiment meant there are real life fuzzy crocodilesActual idiot. 0 logic in his head. Only stupidity. I dont think he’s even functionally literate.
>>4848156Specifically, the article is about comparative anatomyhttps://www.sci.news/paleontology/tyrannosaurus-rex-dorsotemporal-fenestra-07565.htmlIt's a big MAY because significant brain temperature regulation hasn't been observed in small alligatorsAs for warmbloodednessThis is a thermal image of a real life alligator
>>4847342lmao
>>4848150Still not one image. Still no proof. Still whining.>>4848156Why do you constantly talk to yourself in these threads? Do you have no friends?
>>4848159>As for warmbloodedness>This is a thermal image of a real life alligator*after basking*on land*in direct sunlightI seriously hope you don't think Alligators are endotherms now.
>>4848166>this desperate to claim brian engh claimed something he clearly did notlmao fucking moronread the article the image is fromgo on, read itit's about t. rex having a thermoregulatory feature found in... a cold blooded animal. which means it most likely got some of its body heat from the environment.which we already knewi don't know why you aren't jerking off to this already>>4848164>no proofread the paper, idiotit's not even relevant to feathered dinosaurs being real btw, that's already a fact. it's a likely explanation for how they came to be real thoe.
>>4848166Confirmed functionally illiterate
>>4848171>read the paper, idiotThis has already been explained to you. A paper without proof is just toilet paper. Every time you speak you just reveal what a reddit pleb you are. You don't even know how science works. Then again, most "scientists" don't these days either.
>>4848172>Echolalia againGet that looked into, mossadbot. Now call me a woman.
>>4848174>Without proofRead the paper. I don't understand your brand of idioicy - you think because they didn't hatch the croc with induced feathers and allow it to mature, it didn't happen? Is that it? You think all science is fake and the moon landing photos were magically faked by alien supercomputers scavenged from nazi UFO labs?>>4848176>Echolalia>Mossad>Bot>WomanOh my god he's a broken record. Why does he spout these buzzwords over and over again for no apparent reason?Could it be, this guy is actually retarded? Like, medicated mental patient, incompetent to manage their own affairs retarded?
>>4848177You bore me now, bot. Everything that needs to be said has been said. Go talk to your headmates now.
>>4848180>I lostI know. You lost when instead of reading the paper, you started wailing and gnashing your teeth over wanting a photo of a feathered crocodile.The funniest part is it doesn't matter what you believe about that research. The fossils of feathered dinosaurs are very much real.
>>4848224taking offense to "tyrannosaurines" is like taking offense to "alligatoroids"...
>>4848121He likes being bullied
>>4848166>*after basking *on land *in direct sunlightThey retain heat for some time when they go into the water, that’s one of the main reasons they bask>I seriously hope you don't think Alligators are endotherms now.As has been said several times, nobody said this and you’re retarded for thinking that’s what the artist was trying to communicate
