How do I cope with the crushing realization that millions of animals get killed daily just to sustain human society?
>>4873489I have a prime steak defrosting in the fridge I'm going to cook later. That usually makes me feel better.I will have to get some garlic though. What I have is kinda rotten.
>>4873490I just don't think any of this us organic. I hate how I have yo stock up hundreds of octopuses daily at the super market I work on. And that's just one supermarket. This shit doesn't feel right.
>>4873494Overconsumption is a real issue anon. Runaway capitalism is to blame of course.
>>4873489If we stopped eating meat we wouldn't just release billions of chickens into the wild where they would live happily ever after. They would simply get killed, and without demand there wouldn't be any more chickens as you know them being bornBut then again some vegans are so fucked in the head that they decided these animals would choose extinction over being livestock, so maybe that's the goal
>>4873489Just accept it. Human advancement has always come at the expense of the lives of the creatures around us. There are theoretical ways around it, alternatives that are much better for the environment, and even our livestock, I know, but the rich and powerful make money off of the systems we have now, so there's nothing we can really do except hope they have a change of heart (wont happen, the majority of them are actual sociopaths), or somehow convince every single person on the planet to not support practices that cause such destruction and suffering (the "average consumer" lacks so much self awareness that they dont even think about this).Call it defeatist if you want, but apart from being a cringey violent anarchist calling for the deaths of every politician, there's pretty much no other solution.>>4873491If you have the space, you should grow garlic, I've never had to buy a single bulb ever since I started
>>4873497Cards on the table. I only work with fish, that's where my concern comes from. Not from human raised cattle and poultry.
>>4873489Lil' goober
>>4873489Remember Is mostly the fault of really rich people in their quest to become even richer and beyond your power.
by eating more eatweirdos itt
>>4873498Any garlic tips? Supposedly it’s finicky and I haven’t had much luck growing them much past sprouts.Roma tomatoes grow great there though, so I’m not entirely sure what’s wrong.
>>4873574My garlic has been piss easy. So for starters grow hardneck garlic, I've never tried soft neck, so I don't exactly know if my methods apply.Take a bulb of garlic, and carefully separate the cloves, keep the thick papery skin on, it needs it in order to keep out mold and other pathogens during germination. Generally larger cloves=healthier plants=larger bulbs at harvest.Plant in fall, pointed end of the cloves up, about 2 inches deep, just as the weather begins to turn, maybe 3 weeks before first frost, and cover with straw to insulate, its normal for the garlic to peek above the soil line before winter, but if it goes above the insulation line, youve planted too early (you could probably just cover it with more straw and itll be fine though).Do absolutely nothing as winter happens, let the garlic do it's thing.Keep the insulation on the garlic until risk of frost has passed, once you remove the insulation, begin fertilizing every other week with fish fertilizer, and watering as you would any other garden plant, keeping the soil moist.Continue feeding until you start to see the garlic flowering.Garlic flowers or "scapes" grow as spiral stems that slowly straighten out and bloom. You want to cut them off before they straighten to prevent the plant from allocating resources to it. (You can eat the scapes, they're quite good, and can be used similarly to green onions)It is normal to see the leaves begin to yellow a few weeks after this.Once you start to see the leaves yellow, stop watering and just let rain water it.Finally, your garlic can be harvested when around 60-75% of the leaves have dried up.Dig em up, hang them up until fully dry, and pull off the outermost layer of paper on the bulb to clean the dirt off, trim off the leaves and roots, and there, garlic.Probably more than a "tip", but there it is.Also it helps to have sandy soil, helps keep them dry when you need them to be, helps the bulbs form, and it makes the harvesting easier.
>>4873499Oh, then you're entirely in the right of it on this one. Fishing policy isn't remotely sustainable and China is explicitly trying to remove the ocean as a food source so they can play kingmaker with their near-monopoly on industrial farm nutrient additives.
>>4873489depends:1. religious? read your gospel according to your religion for answers.2. not religious? not your problem, the world is a bloody place. remember "domestic" pigs can become feral, and remember plants can display low level signs of consciousness. we all die so something else can live.3. still feel guilty? repent by becoming vegan4. still guilty? become militant, project and vent your frustration with the human inability to escape the course of nature onto others. this is kept vague to protect both of us.5. still feel guilty? exposure therapy.
as less shitposty answer by an american:i deal with it by remembering the worst of what we do is in the world of cheap animal products as well as beauty and biopharmaceuticals.so:- minimize the money you spend on meds- skip out on makeup altogether, the whole industry is messed up, - think of meat as a special occasion. switch to a largely, doesn't have to be strictly, vegetarian diet. research what brands to buy at your store, but be prepared for your grocery cost to double, maybe triple if you're not willing to give up some luxuries. depending on the changes you make, this could actually result in costs dropping like it did for me.evading taxes and never using a bank would also go a long way towards making your sure your money isn't being used to perpetuate the suffering of others.voting is an option too. sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. i'll leave that to you.
>>4873697Qrd on fishing sustainability and China shenanigans?
>>4873489Billions of macroscopic life forms are born and die every day in an immutable interconnected web of life that would exist with or without your participation. Your ego is not more important than nature.
>>4873710China has been operating massive fishing fleets in ""international"" waters very close to the territorial waters of various states running shock and/or drag nets to scoop up every single thing they can physically find, then packing it onto motherships to carry it back so the fishing ships never have to leave. There's been a Chinese fishing flotilla off the coast of Argentina that's larger than Argentina's capital city operating for years. For another example, the minute Iran offered up fishing rights to China as part of a trade deal, Chinese ships ran drag nets over their entire territorial waters, which are now almost entirely unproductive.At the same time, China is feeding its own population on cheap fish while ordering their domestic meat and grain production to be disproportionately dedicated to long-term storage, often in nationalized sites, and they're likewise stockpiling nutrient additives (which are necessary for industrial farming to be profitable because fodder and supplements are an order of magnitude cheaper than buying high-end animal feed in bulk) and limiting their export.Fishing sustainability as a concept ultimately can't work under current territorial waters management paradigms because fish move and oceanic nutrient flows move on too large a scale to let any small parcel of ocean be self-contained. Conservation and management efforts must be unified over broad areas or the one ratfucker who bucks the program will simply catch all the fish from twenty feet over the imaginary line.
>>4873717China's ultimate goal in this, as best as can be determined from the outside, is to make it difficult or impossible for any third world state to feed their population without China's support. Many nations in Africa rely on seafood for upwards of 60% of their protein.
Just become vegitarian.>>4873494That is one animal i will never eat because I respect it's intelligence and I'm sad it's just treated like it doesn't even have a nervous system. Horrible.
>>4873741>>4873718If I don't make sure I get all of it, someone else will.I live in a small country with pretty serious dairy production and we still rely extremely heavily on phosphor imports (a finite resource we are currently wasting) for fertilizers. One of our largest sources is western Sahara - guess is is trying to claim it?
>>4873717They make the workers, especially so with crewmembers hired outside of China, work 18+ hours per day, beat them and feed them expired or rotting food which they can wash down with half-half distilled seawater.You get shit like the BRI (Belt and Road Initiative) where they indebt countries to build infrastructure which when unpaid, opens them up to jewing them out of even more flora/fauna. Or else.The UN wont/can't do anything about it, either. Whenever someone dares to speak up, CHina vehemently denies it 100%, "We have the most strict management system in the world" and when asked to prove it despite unquestionable evidence to the contrary, they say "We ran internal investigations and checks, found that you guys are just full of shit , in fact we are fucking over the entire planet less thanall you other countries combined, you should thank us".
>>4873549Sam hyde cat
>>4873489You just learn to accept it.You can however criticize over consumption, we don't need to kill as many animals as we do and some of that meat goes to waste.
>>4873489 How do I cope with the crushing realization that millions of animals get killed daily just to sustain the biosphere?
>>4873489personally I'd go ahead and eat some nice delicious meat, because damn does it taste good. Go ahead and eat a shoe if you want, just don't try to force some vegetarian diet on your pets.
you realize its normal and that every other animal would do it if they were intelligent. this is how we dominate every species. get over it. we wouldnt be here right now if we werent violent
>>4873968The western sahara belongs to Spain
>>4873489By acknowledging a large percentage of that goes directly to feeding cats.
>>4873741I'd rather in a country controlled by autistic, nationalist men.
>>4873693hell yeah, brother.
do you frown upon eating eggs? cats fight everynigt its awesome but eerie that's how nature rolls. adapt to this motion or lose
>>4873715there do exist isolated human tribes who continue the tradition of eating the corpses of their ancestors in order to embody their wisdom. even jesus christ of the holy bible urged his followers to metaphorically consume his flesh to live in him forever.maybe your chickens thought that particular chicken especially wise, a saint, maybe they've adopted religious practices, and maybe your hand is the hand of god, dealing death and life as it sees fit in its eternal wisdom. one day they will find your corpse, and they will consume your hand, but do not interpret it to be malice. it will be yours and theirs highest honor.
>>4873496if everybody had access to fishing equipment instead of a few companies there would be less overconsumption because...
>>4873489Simply be vegan. If you have a problem with the system, no one is forcing you to continue financially supporting systemic animal abuse. Even if the world won't change overnight because of you, at least you can sleep at night knowing you aren't part of the problem. It'll take a little getting used to, but once you figure out how to do it, it'll be easy to maintain; no flavour is worth the personal liberation you feel from no longer being part of this system. >>4873497These animals have been made mostly reliant on humans for survival, which means they are domesticated. When they are no longer being exploited, they should be treated with the same care and compassion as all other domesticated animals. The fact that most people cannot even imagine a world where these animals are cared for beyond what product they can provide for sale and consumption is the problem with this current system.
>>4874364Because if he acknowledges that over-consumption of capitalism is to blame, but refuses to acknowledge that over-consumption is equally controlled by the average buyers who continue to pay for and increase the demand, then he can claim to be against an issue without actively taking responsibility for his own actions. :)
>>4875004The overconsumers are a communist state however>>4874718An animal cant be exploited. They have no rights to life, liberty, and property unless they are a higher form ie: canine, ape, cetacean, cheetah
>>4875008Why not? These animals undeniably able to experience pain and suffering. Why should the basis on whether an animal is given the benefit to be allowed a happy life based on this line that you've drawn? If it's based on intelligence, what about animals like pigs, who scientific studies have increasingly shown to have equal or greater intelligence to that of a dog? What do the four animals you've included as examples even have in common with each other more than they have in common with any of the exploited animals?
>>4873489OP should read Animal Liberation Now
>>4873489think of the trillions upon trillions of lifeforms that meet their end every day, it's just what goes on in a biosphere. you could also take solace in the reality of reincarnation, of which all great minds today are convinced is real
>>4875048Animals are not people. Worry about human suffering instead of a dumb ass chicken not being free. Discussion over zoophile
>>4875509No one said they're people. The animals you do choose to care about are not people either. No one's saying they deserve the right to vote lmao but the right to not be bred into imprisonment, abuse, and death isn't asking for a lot, anon. It's hypocritical to only care about some animals while condemning others based on some made-up line. You can care about both animal issues and human issues. Who said you had to pick one? Are you only capable of caring about one thing at a time?
>>4875518>nooo the animal was in a cage!Who cares? Unless its a good one like a dog, a tiger or a dolphin they don’t really matter
>>4875520Why?
>>4875520Based. Usefulness and interest to man determines an animals worth not their theoretical suffering. Fuck your pseudo-buddhist morals based entirely on suffering. Asian religion and asian philosophy are for beta NPCs incapable of progressing beyond the iron age without copying individualist western chads.
>>4875546It decides their worth >for you. On some level you know there is no difference in each animal's experience of sentience and pain. If you were to actually try and rationalize the difference in their rights instead of trying to minimize it as buddist gobbledygook, you'd know there is no meaningful moral difference in their individuality or desire for life and freedom outside of your personal perception and labels which have been dictated by the society you were raised in. Oh but wait, you can't admit that because then that would mean you would have to actually make a meaningful change in your lifestyle. Right.
>>4875556>muh heckin subjectivity>u scared? i am le heckin brave!vegans are performative narcissistsanimals are not peoplethere is a moral difference because only anthropocentric ethics are functional otherwise you starve or are obligated to murder humans to protect cattle that don't even care if you kill other cattle in front of thembut we know you're not a philosopher, you're a narcissist who latched onto some generic self-denial cultism. you are most likely inspired by hinduism or buddhism, invalid and false religions, but you could also be inspired by seventh day adventists, heretical cultists, scientology, gnosticism, etc. but you still love to surf on the backs of millions of suffering humans because that's a much harder choice to make than your rich ass slamming back supplements and googling meal plans in a desperate bid to avoid malnutrition without eating a fucking egg. it doesn't matter if a child has arthritis at 12 to make your phone.you dishonest clown. this is your entire personality>I AM A BRAVE MARTYR BECAUSE I DONT EAT TASTY FOOD! I AM ALSO COMPASSIONATE LIKE LE PROPHET MAN!no, you aren't. you display false compassion for beasts that don't give a shit because displaying true compassion for man would rob you of too much convenient third world labor and your polluting magic go-boxes. imagine if you never bought a third world product or flew on a plane and only bought local to get more trucks off the road and so on and so on... for starters you would need eggs and dairy to survive, but your carbon footprint would be minimal and as a side effect you wouldn't support factory farms and you would fund local farms so they could buy fences and stop shooting wild predators.imagine if you never again consoomed new product and just fixed what broke until it was unsalvageablebut that's hard. and claiming to be a vegan and shopping differently in the food section at the store you pyrolized a gallon of gas to get to and from is easy.
reminder: most livestock doesn't suffer in captivity because they can't comprehend freedomyou can slaughter them in front of each other and they never care nor learn to fear you.people expect livestock to suffer and fear death because that's how predators act. humans, bears, tigers, dogs, cats all suffer and fear death.we farm prey animals specifically because they do not suffer in captivity. they are happy sitting in a field all day and then dying. the fences are short. they can just jump over and run far, far away.
>>4875563You're making a lot of assumptions about me based on stereotypes anon. This is literally the opposite of narcissism lmao. None of this is about me. There is nothing performative about cutting off financial support in the supply and demand of an industry of animal abuse. Also I'm literally lower class and a cheapskate. I don't waste money on all the fancy ass foods LOL. I take no supplements. I have gotten blood tests every year and am yet to have any sign of any malnutrition. No, the society we are in is not morally perfect at the moment. There is human suffering. But does that mean you'd be against us taking steps to improve those human's conditions? You claim you can't care about animal rights because you're so preoccupied by human rights, but you also still use phones which you say are evil. We can take steps to make the production of phones more hunane, but animal slaughter will always inherently be inhumane, no matter how many positive adjectives you put in front of it. Society cannot move to improving both human and animal conditions if we all continue to fund abuse.If you saw real footage at slaughterhouses, you'd know animals absolutely care about seeing their friend murdered in front of them and absolutely feel fear and try to escape their fate. Give animals your empathy.
>>4875594Holy shit, he was right, you are a performative narcissist.>I am so good and moral UwULivestock don't care about seeing other livestock killed. You can watch NZ homekill videos. They're startled by the fall but act normal otherwise.They care about being shoved into a slaughterhouse because all they have is an instinctive fear of the smell of blood, programmed into them since they were brainless annelids.I bet you're paleoschizo. Our veganism threads are ALWAYS paleoschizo. No one else hates animals enough to deny them their lifes purpose: becoming burgers.>animal slaughter will always be inhumane
>>4875610You're literally admitting that livestock feel fear. You could argue that a lot of what we feel is also programmed into us, but that doesn't make what we feel any less real.You know animals feel pain, otherwise you'd have no problem with people abusing dogs. The only difference is you choosing to care about one and not the other.And maybe if you keep calling me a narcissist enough times you'll be able to discredit this so that you don't have to actually think about the fact that your burger did not want to die.
I don't have any control right now over how others treat animals. I just live as an example. No red meat, only harvesting birds and fish because that's the limit of cruelty I'm okay with.
>>4875619Hes right fag. Cows dont care about dying. They care about smelling adrenaline laced blood and seeing caniforms and feliforms. As herd animals they evolved to actually feel safer after seeing their friends die. They’re not really smart animals like dogs, cats, and people. Do you think old farmers had the benefit of factory farms and industrial slaughter? We only have the livestock we do because other animals fight back.
>>4875623this. kosher slaughter developed as a way of killing cows without freaking out the other cows because they bleed out so fast their blood doesnt smell like fear, so to the other cows they might as well have died naturally. we have religious edicts regarding killing livestock without frightening the rest. that is not compatible with an animal that does not want to die. if cows did not want to die we would never be able to keep herds from dispersing. all the animals with a will to live returned to the wilds ASAP. domestication is not the russian fox experiment, the animals arent kept in caged facilities as part of a putposeful program. every domesticated animal we have is here because they are unable to comprehend or naturally dont mind their situation. look at asians trying to raise meat dogs. they need to be kept in individual cages because otherwise they cant handle being raised for food. if you kill a dog where other dogs can see, they will attack you. horses will also do this. cows will not.
>>4875623>>4875628You're saying that we've grown to only exploit the animals who are easier to because they are incapable of fighting back like that makes it any better. You can't genuinely believe that a kosher animal feels no pain or fear when their throat is slit. You or any other animal would feel pain. If you wouldn't consider a method of murder "humane" if used on a person or dog or whoever else, then it's got nothing to do with the method of killing, you just don't care about them as much.
>>4875668>how could you squish a bug but not a person!? LE SUFFERING LE MURDERvegans are clownsbe amish or you’re a hypocrite who depends on real human suffering, not theoretical philosophical animal suffering, for convenience sorry you lose.
>>4875670Yeah it's totally better to change nothing so you can be "not a hypocrite" by just condoning all levels of suffering. Yeah that's definitely better. And we're the clowns for trying to reduce harm. And calling animal suffering "theoretical" is genuinely absurd. Stab any animal in a non-fatal way and tell me that there is any doubt that they are in pain. If you genuinely thought anything about animals being able to feel pain is up for debate then you wouldn't even care about if slaughter was "humane" or not.
>>4875740>le hypocriteNot all life is the same, clown. Veganism refuted. Just like that.
>>4875740>vegans are now telling people to stab animals>this is proof chickens suffer if not given total liberty!They really are performative narcissistsI’d rather worry about human suffering than animals living like you’d prefer to mmmkay?
>>4873489its life in general not human society, billions of animals eat billions of other animals each day. arguably in more gruesome ways than humans do it. you can become vegan to minimize it or off yourself completely if you dont wanna participate. you being alive means consuming life
It's industrial society that's the problem
>>4875742>>4875749Again, you can care about both animal and human suffering smoothbrains. Using certain groups suffering to justify other groups suffering is not a good enough reason to continue personally benefiting from and funding that oppression. If they can feel pain, and it's not necessary to cause that pain, then you are simply choosing to continue contributing to that unnecessary pain in the world, full stop.
>>4875804No one caresMorals only apply to humans. Animals are moral nonbeings. Only animals that are your property come close to having significance because they affect you, and only unnecessary torture for absolutely no reason has significance because it belies a torturous character.Someone that kills a cow with the best method they have after it spent its life in a pen not really giving a shit has committed no moral ill.Seeing as humans need meat to live i will continue eating chickenYou will continue desperately scrounging up supplements and imported superfoods
>>4873693tyI have to try this summer is just ending here.whats so bad about the garlic freezing?is it insta death if the soil freezes?im close to Copenhagen and it can get cold here. would it be better to grow it inside then?
>>4875806You're genuinely coping if you think we need meat for survival or if you think the cows you eat live long or happy lives. If animals held no moral value, then how does the torture of them imply a torturious character by torturing an animal? By your logic, someone who "tortures" any innanimate object like a rock is immoral, because only humans or property of humans hold value. The only reason the torture of an animal would imply someone is an immoral person is if you acknowledge that animals do experience pain and that causing said pain is a negative deed. And again, I'm years in being lower class with zero "superfoods" or supplements. If what you think was true, I should be on death's door any day now, eh? How much longer do I got doc? You can find what you need in food. And even IF you needed supplements, if you had to choose between taking a vitamin or killing an animal you do choose to care about like a dog, the choice would easily be the vitamin.
>>4875897tldrhumans need meat. we kill quickly and kindly because that is how predators are meant to be. morals not based on nature are schizo religion shit. you would starve without semis and i would eat squirrel and farm chickens. i am better than you in reality. you are only better than me in your imagination with gods and demons. cry more.
>>4875977There is no religion or god in this. We are talking about only what is tangible and the world we live in. We do not live in the wild, we live in our modern society with its comforts. Your life does not change drastically by shopping at a different aisle in the grocery store, but for the animals that small change is everything. If humans needed meat there wouldn't be any schizo vegans to bother you. Unless you have a crime record involving a middle school that I don't know about, you are not a predator.
>>4873489By realizing that millions of animals (humans included) die daily regardless. If there were no humans millions would still die. You have to hope that as the apex predator we will evolve to the point where we can drag all life into a higher standard of living as we evolve. Think of the millions of animals that are alive simply because we have decided they are necessary, millions that would otherwise not live. Think of the animals that get to have an unimaginably comfortable life because the apex predator of their planet has decided they would. Just hope that as we continue evolving we will also uplift our biological brethren. That all this blood and death leads to somewhere better. it might not, but maybe if we aim for it it might come true.
>>4873489By realizing humans arent special and that millions of organisms die each day to sustain the life of other organisms because that is just how life on this planet works.
>>4873489>How do I cope with the crushing realization that millions of animals get killed daily just to sustain human society?billions of humans are basically slave-class to sustain human societyanyways meat is fucking delicious, even cats know that
>>4876179Animals have no moral standing unless your religion says they doOnly humans matter. If you wouldnt kill 5 golden retrievers to save one homeless black man you are dysgenic. I will continue supporting meat because people other than bored rich whites need food and only bored rich whites think a cow dying matters as they order another coal fueled cargo ship from china
>>4873489Find ways to make a difference. Being vegan is retarded but you can use all the leisure time we have in the west to raise your own or spend more money to buy from a farmer that treats their animals well.
>>4873489You could potentially rationalize it in your head as, "This chicken or cow or whatever wouldn't even exist if it weren't being bred for meat production. So either it gets killed or it wouldn't exist either way".My issue is not the act of killing the animals, but the suffering many of them have when so much food goes to waste regardless. Knowing that a chicken is born into a cruel environment, crammed inside a box where it can barely move for up to a year at a time, then put on a conveyor belt of suffocation/electrocution, throat slitting, and water boiling just so someone can NOT finish their nuggets and throw them out fills me with dread. Our meat doesn't need to suffer. We can still provide an excess of meat while humanely raising and butchering them. But these companies don't just want an excess, they want an ultra excess.
>>4877563>This chicken or cow or whatever wouldn't even exist if it weren't being bred for meat production. So either it gets killed or it wouldn't exist either way.Retarded reasoning. Law of supply and demand govern our food production. If you use your reasoning to keep eating meat then the animals would keep on being bred and this will never stop.
>>4878677>this will never stop.It wouldn't stop even if every human on Earth decided to become a vegetarian because we would STILL need meat production for other industries, such as food for pets or animals in conservation. Sorry bro. Meat makes the world go round.
>>4878680just make the lions and tigers into vegans too
>>4877563What about octopuses and squids?
>>4873489Mental illness the thread. Stop being such soft pussy faggots and go get your hormones checked. This board is even more retarded and feminine than /x/ and that really says something.
>>4873489Become a misanthrope and get pets. Unironically this is why "crazy cat ladies" exist. They're just trying to shelter and care for as many animals as possible to try to assuage their human guilt for being part of the species that slaughtered the entire planet and every single other species.
earth is overpopulatedless humans = less killed animals
>>4873489Animals kill other animals to sustain themselves, and human beings are just one of the higher animals. When wild animals eat cows, the cow would often be eaten alive, we protect cows from that terrible fate, give them good lives until we put them down with a headshot. Wild animals would often eat the best parts, the organs, and leave the rest -- foxes would kill more than they can eat and bury the excess kill. We try and make sure much of the animals we kill won't go to waste, we cook the tough cuts, boil the bones for broth, and use the hides for shoes, jackets, and seat covers. We even use cow, or rather the bull's horns, to make hair combs that doesn't cause static electricity build up, and the horns can be used to make tongue scrapers too. Bones are also used as bone meal.
>>4873489it's overkingdom animalia had fallenmillions must die
>>4880568"There could be dogredditors here", he thought
