Just a thread for the discussion of animal sheltering and animal welfare in general. Share experiences, thoughts, opinions, news, etc. Ask questions, maybe they'll get answers.Here are a few questions to kick things off ->Have you ever been to a shelter before?>Have you or anyone you've known adopted an animal?>Any preconceived notions you had about said shelter that were wrong?>Anything you wish you knew before going to the shelter?3-3-3 Rulehttps://winnipeghumanesociety.ca/3-3-3-rule-of-adoption/Puppy Blueshttps://whatagreatdog.com/navigating-the-puppy-blues-a-guide-for-puppy-parents/Need Help?https://pets.findhelp.com/(It probably won't help because it requires users to input services, but it's worth a shot)Petfinder>select the type of animal you want to see>sort by 'randomize'https://www.petfinder.com/
They put a hat on Kevin
>>4878099that's my baby Olive, me and my fiance got her from a PetSmart adoption event supporting their local shelter.
>>4878099not sure why you started with a picture of a cat
>>4878192Olive looks adorable and happy.
>>Have you ever been to a shelter before?Twice. Once to adopt a dog and another to surrender a different dog my retard mom couldn't handle and I didn't have time/space for. She's going through a divorce and thought raising a dog alone would be easy.>>Have you or anyone you've known adopted an animal?No and I didn't end up adopting when I went.>>Any preconceived notions you had about said shelter that were wrong?Yes, I thought it'd be easy to get a dog. It was harder than getting a bank loan. Also, it was surprisingly clean and smelled acceptable.>>Anything you wish you knew before going to the shelter?Surrending a dog is easy as fuck. I just sign some paper and present ID. Also, I wish I knew they would require the following before I can adopt a dog so I wouldn't waste my time the first time I visited:>shelter staff must interview all members of the household in person>staff will inspect my property inside and out>they have hidden fees before you adopt (which they charge for on top of those fees) that are non-refundable even if you don't adopt >all dogs are mutilated (fixed)>all dogs have some form of PTSD from either their homes or their time at the shelter>the 10% of dogs that weren't pitbulls were old as fuck and ready to dieMy family ended up buying a Husky puppy from a BYB. No questions asked, dog isn't mutilated (fixed), and zero PTSD. I reckon the pitbulls that maul people are from dog abusers or idiots that adopt a shell-shocked 'Nam veteran tier pitbull.
>>4878309>all dogs have some form of PTSD from either their homes or their time at the shelterThat's laughably untrue lol>all dogs are mutilated (fixed)That's a good thing>they have hidden fees before you adoptI have never heard of this>shelter staff must interview all members of the household in personSemi-normal, they need to make sure you don't live in your mom's basement trying to bring an animal home.>staff will inspect my property inside and outNot done in municipal or contract shelters, but a common 'threat' for rescues. I say threat because they usually don't actually have the manpower to do a home visit, unless they are dropping the dog off for you.>It was harder than getting a bank loan.You've never even gotten a bank loan.
>>4878317>>all dogs have some form of PTSD from either their homes or their time at the shelter>That's laughably untrue lolPerhaps I was laying on a bit thick here. However, I'm still adamant over my presumption vicious shelter dogs have PTSD. Just about every case I've read up on pitbull attacks have been adopted. I like the dog and wouldn't mind a puppy from good temperament parents, for the record.>>all dogs are mutilated (fixed)>That's a good thingI don't like it, but I see the value and reason. Our dog isn't fixed and won't be unless it's medically necessary. I compare it to human infant circumcision (mutilation).>>they have hidden fees before you adopt>I have never heard of thisAdministrative fees is what they called it iirc. It's nowhere to be found no the website.>>shelter staff must interview all members of the household in person>Semi-normal, they need to make sure you don't live in your mom's basement trying to bring an animal home.I reckon a basement dog is better than a euthanized dog, but that's a fair point nonetheless. Due to schedules of my family, not everyone would be able to be interviewed since they close early most days.>>staff will inspect my property inside and out>Not done in municipal or contract sheltersI went to the a city shelter. Seems silly to have "adopt don't shop" posters hung up while making me jump through hoops and manage threats.>>It was harder than getting a bank loan.>You've never even gotten a bank loan.I also never replaced my car's transmission yet know it's a difficult job.
>>4878099>>Have you ever been to a shelter before?no>>Have you or anyone you've known adopted an animal?no>>Any preconceived notions you had about said shelter that were wrong?no>>Anything you wish you knew before going to the shelter?nofuck off NGO parasites, get a job, fuck your trash pets
>>4878242Would you have preferred a dog?
Petco started actually selling rabbits. Kind of sucks because you usually can't give away rabbits, and now Petco is going to be adding to that problem.
>>4878673>""""mix""""just call it what it is: a fucking pitbull
>>4878282Lmao my foster cats adjust after 24 hours and are happy, playful and affectionate.
>>4878977You can always eat them. I hope they start selling chickens next.
>>4878282>foster a husky>sleeping on the couch and yelling at me for food day oneAbused mutt issue
>>4878309>byb husky you could have just said you were retarded in the first line
>>4878099>petfinderYou mean pitfinder?
Dog fighting ring bust in Tyler, TX. 61 dogs seized along with 7lbs of weed lmao. Nicholas Pet Haven and Tyler ACO has to hold until court proceedings.
>>4879153>>4879194It's a general rule of thumb; most animals take some time to adjust to new settings. This is more to explain to retards that animals are not like plushies, and require time and work
>>4878099>Have you ever been to a shelter before?Yes, "just to look". I have a cat now.>Have you or anyone you've known adopted an animal?Yes>Any preconceived notions you had about said shelter that were wrong?I expected there to be lots of rejects with behaviour problems, but really all these cats were just sadly homeless for no fault of their own.>Anything you wish you knew before going to the shelter?The shelter didn't update their website, so the "stock" was completely different from what I was expecting. Not a bad thing mind you, most of the kittens they had were not online.
>>4879709Stop treating them like humans and make them happy animals. If it takes more than a week you're doing it wrong.
>>4878099The problem is so bad that I've never even been to a shelter. One rescue came from a family memeber, the next a friend of a friend and my current dog was tied around a tree with a leash at a garage sale with a $50 dollar price tag.
>>4879808she looks super content>just to lookYeah I feel like that's a dangerous situation to put yourself in.The majority of animals at the shelters near me are due to moving or accidental litters.
>>4878673>MixWith what? A fucking Pug?
I adopted this guy from a rescue I thought it was kinda strange they physically showed up to my home. How do they have time for that? They could have used google street view. They also asked for non friends/family references. Weird.
Why is every dog shelter choked full of shitbulls?9/10 of the dogs in them are pitts
>>4881174>Why is every prison chocked full of niggers?
>>4881174There's a few factors. Pit bulls are the most common type of dog in the US, making them the cheapest to obtain. That attracts a lot of people that can't afford to care for dogs. On top of that, they are also the most commonly banned breed from cheap housing. This attributes to the top 2 or 3 reasons dogs are surrendered as well - financial, moving, too many animals.For the most part, shelters are going to be a representation of the over-population of animals in an area. Japan has a pretty autistic pit bull fan club but their shelters are full of shibas and akitas. Sweden doesn't have much of a dog overpop issue in general, but they also don't ban pits and actually import them from surrounding countries, and most of their homeless dogs are northern breeds.The better question is how do we fix it, because trying to kill them all hasn't worked the past 4 decades.
>>4881492nice misinfographic. you can tell whoever made that takes pictures of theirs with a flower crown.
>>4881597It's all technically true. The study at the bottom just so happens to be a fucked up study, wherein the results were skewed horrifically. But nothing else in there is wrong.
>>4878099Shelters lie regularly about the background of the dogs they adopt out. They aren't forthcoming about potential aggression issues or bite histories. It's not uncommon for dogs to be passed from shelter to shelter to 'launder' them.Now I live in Bongland, and the dog that overwhelmingly populates shelters here is greyhounds. I love greyhounds. I wouldn't adopt one. Shelters are shady institutions full of ARAs who THINK they care about the dogs but actually don't, they care far more about their feelings regarding the dogs than the dogs themselves. If you put a gun to my head and told me to adopt a dog from a shelter I'd say shoot me. It would be a far more enjoyable experience.
>>4881597>he believes dogs are able to 'lock jaws'I knew 3rd worlders flock to 4chan but I didn't realize we had actual hut dwellers in here
>>4882151Did you reply to the wrong post again?
>>4881611>I love greyhounds. I wouldn't adopt oneYou are missing a trick there. Greyhounds being racing dogs are usually well cared for by their former owners and are well trained and socialised since they are used to being around other dogs be it at home or at the track. They are also extremely low maintenance time wish and are lazy sods that just want to sleep most of the day, a short walk in the morning and evening is usually enough for them if they are past their racing days.>t. Used to help my uncle with his racing dogs when I was a lad
>>4882259Male karens like that are usually having their period over their propensity for munching on cats
>>4882261That's what a muzzle is for which is mandatory really when on walks if not living out in the sticks. I'm not suggesting they are the perfect pet for everyone but you just need to sensible about it.
>>4879709Based confederacy saving God's creatures
>>4880995That's a lot of work. Generally only rescues will do this, but I still refuse to foster for rescues that put up those kind of barriers because 1) I want my fosters to get adopted sometime this decade and 2) I don't want to show up at some random fucker's house for a home check, that's asking to be mugged.That's a cute fucking cat tho, orange with large swatches of white like that isn't too common
Why are there so many huskies in southern shelters like california and texas, but they are so rare in northern shelters in climates where they would actually thrive? You'd think there would be more northern breeds in colder climates.
>>4883248huskies are more primitive dogs that require more empathy and intelligence from their owners. they do not tolerate punishment and will never forgive an abusive owner. every cruelty inflicted on them makes them permanently worse.german shepherds and goldens are just as fluffy but southies don't hate have as many problems with them because they were bred to be slavish
>>4882259The whole 'greyhounds are lazy' thing only applies to retired racers. There's actually an influx of non-racing greyhounds in city areas because of new dog owners not putting that together and buying pups assuming they will be couch potatoes
>>4881609>technically trueso it's sophistry which is all pitbull defenders really have>ITS NOT A BREEDyes, it's several morphologically and behaviorally similar breeds which were bred for a similar purpose, fighting and bloodsports. its the same shit as "race isn't real, but uh, clinal variation exists and there are extreme clinal variants." Smoke and mirrors sophistry that only impresses weakminded people.>UM ASKCHULLY ROTTS AND SHEPHERDS HAVE STRONGER BITESno shit, they are 50-70% larger on average>THEY CANT ACKSHULLY LOCK THEIR JAWno shit, they just have a strong inclination to refuse to let go after having bit something. This was bred into them as it's desirable behavior in bloodsports like bull baiting. That is why they have a vastly higher rate of medically significant bites than any of the multiple breeds with stronger bite forces, or breeds with higher bite rates.The study being a fucked up study is just one more piece suggesting pitfags are incapable of intellectual honesty in regards to their hideous murderbeasts. Pitbulls are literally 2x as bad as blacks if you look at their share of the total dog population versus their rate of medically significant bites compared to other breeds.
Proud of y'all for ignoring trolls. Look at this beauty in Palmdale, CA. Another fuckin husky in a hot climate.
>>4881492all of those shouldn't exist
>>4878099>Have you ever been to a shelter before?Yes we went to a number when our previous dog was alive but finding a dog friendly cat friendly non puppy was impossible so we gave up. Both dogs we have owned were foster dogs.4 of our cats have been from shelters though while the other two were rehomed form a woman moving in with her parents.>Have you or anyone you've known adopted an animal?My aunt has always adopted cats but that's probably down to my granddad always adopting dogs and not buying them. Sadly most dog owners refused to even look in a shelter and just brought shitty doodles or some working breed despite having no experience. Only one person who is my mum's friend has put in the leg work to purchase dogs.>Any preconceived notions you had about said shelter that were wrong?Not the chain shelters or the foster homes they were exactly what we were expecting but there was a strange rescue we went to that had all the dogs in this old barn. That one felt fucking weird.>Anything you wish you knew before going to the shelter?Your going to walk away disappointed more times than not. Finding one that fits you is not easy but look around at other shelters and foster homes. Our puppy Milo is eight months old and we got him when he was six. when he was dropped off he ran into everyone's arms. First few nights he did cry and have a horrible time sleeping but he sleeps like a baby now. Just gotta know it's not going to be a walk in the park but that's any new dog.
>>4884944That's a pomsky, look at her coloring
>>4884944Pomeranians casually changing husky genetics forever
>>4878242Cat website, tourist
Would you guys personally prefer to adopt a cat from a foster or from city-run animal shelter? My friend got a kitten from the latter and it had fleas, a tapeworm, and wasn't neutered. He had to run a semi-costly vet bill, but the kitten is all good-to-go now. He wanted to get a friend and thought about going to the same animal shelter, since he doesn't know where else to get them, and I don't know if that's a good idea. I've personally always preferred volunteer-run foster cares because they actually clean up the animal and have vet paperwork ready to go. They'll also help you find a good match to bond pets and tell you about their personalities. However, I also feel bad about saying, "Don't bother with those animal shelter cats" who are probably more in need of being adopted lest they be put to sleep. Kittens don't really stick around at shelters for long, so I'm not sure.What do you think? Is my sympathy getting in the way and the foster cat is a better option?
>>4885299Anon dogs have huge litters 10 times over, there are mutts of every breed. Your american-elites-installed cuckolding/racial destruction fetish is showing (huskies as a stand in for white people). >>4885306No redditor, we just had a cat meme once. A “cat website” would have never allowed the epic lulz of bonzai kittehs. 4chan is closer to a militant atheist website thanks to based project chanology. In ur temples, blowing up ur vans.
>>4885211>Your going to walk away disappointed more times than notI try to tell people that if they aren't impulse buying and actually know what they want, then going the rescue/shelter route is going to be just as long and painful as going through a reputable breeder. You have to find the right rescues/shelters that you like, and then you have to wait for the right dog to come through.The only fast and easy way to get a dog is through a puppy mill/BYB. I think anons are so used to being able to turn on their phone and pick out the breed, sex, and color of a dog like it's a puppy costco and pick it up within a few weeks, that they get frustrated when they need to put in effort with a reputable breeder or a shelter.
>>4882259It's moreso the fact that I can't trust literally anything that comes out of the mouth of a shelter worker. If I want to adopt a dog, I'd probably go to a breed specific rescue affiliated with the breed club. They're far more likely to be honest since they actually care about the animals.
>>4885450Exactly. If you can't put in that basic effort in researching breeds, researching breeders or shelters and actually going to just visit them you probably won't be able able to care for a dog.
>>4885365>>huskies as a stand in for white peopleI never see browns with pomeranians, they're a stand in for upper class white women if anything
>>4885361So here's the deal - If you go to an animal shelter in some states where the districts they cover has under a certain amount of people (I wanna say 600 but that seems too low), they legally do not have to have the animals fixed because they aren't getting enough taxes to cover the spay/neuter expenses, and they also will not likely have a vet on staff due to the rural vet shortage. I don't agree with it, but that's where that's at. Anywhere else is more than likely going to require by law municipal shelters have all animals fixed within one month of it being released. If this happened in a city, I'd report the shelter since they are absolutely adding to their own fucking problem.Me personally if I had to choose between the two I'd pick the shelter. But I also have ties to vet med and can get it the care it needs, and I would literally be looking for the unhealthy retard cats. I find the challenge fun.If I had a different lifestyle, like if I needed the cat to be good with cats and dogs and kids and I didn't have the ability to care for a sick disabled cat, then I would have much better luck with the rescues. It really depends on what people need, but I will say I don't assume most shelter cats to be unfixed and sick.At the end of the day though you're still adopting a cat. That foster/rescue now has an open space to take another cat, often they even take from shelter's red lists.
I've been involved in four adoptions in my life, currently looking into a fifth, but only the last adoption was specifically for me as an adult. My cat is the best cat in the world and I'll be going back to the same rescue due to how socialized he is. Pic related.
>>4885365Bonsai kittens were fake, retard
Some rescue is going to have some apparent low-mid content wolfdogs available in Anza California, if anyone is interested.The following is the rough sequence of events but I know it's missing important pieces.>7/29 - 'Nixon' Wild Fire occurred. Officer found 80-120 dogs on a property. >7/30 - Various dogs/puppies appearing at large around Anza CA in packs of up to 17 dogs>7/31 - ACO leaves notices to improve welfare on property>8/1 - A pack of dogs, including confirmed wolf hybrids, found in San Bernardino Nat. Park>8/4 - US F&W get involved and start investigation>8/5 - Emaciated horses are now noticed on property, someone somehow got a hold of one.>8/6 - same person that retrieved the horse retrieved 5 dogs and 3 more horses. Same day, the property was raided>8/7 - press release, toured the animals, blew cover of the mole that was taking animals from the owner>8/10 - animals from raid are starting to become available, no arrest or warrant for the owner made>9/1 - A 48.3% wolf dog was adopted to a 60 year old man, who lost it the same fucking day and then didn't bother to retrieve it>9/4 - A young girl was severely mauled (supposedly lost an arm) from one of the dogs running at large>9/9 - said dog is euthanized and tested for rabies (neg)
Anyone ever see anything interesting at a shelter before? I've seen a cat with a tail like pic related before, I think that was the most interesting. When I worked in the medical department I got to see a lot of weird shit. A litter of 6m old kittens born with their legs missing from ankles/wrist or elbow/knee down, a dog whose top muzzle was naturally half the length of his bottom jaw, one dog that pissed out it's ass, a cat that had empty fucking eye sockets, a rat that had 4 front feet. Of course all of these guys were euth'd and never made it to the floor.
>>4881492>Sweden [....] most of their homeless dogs are northern breedswhat are you talking about retarded american? there are like 100 homeless dogs in all of Sweden ATBEST who belong to actual homeless people. There are zero, absolutely zero, homeles dogs without an owner. A normal dog in Sweden costs between 1500 and 2500 usd and hence people dont fuck around with them.Please stop posting retarded shit you know nothing about, sincearly/ the Swedish people.
>>4879531Coming in neighbourhood shelters near you! :DFuck I miss 90s when these shits were put down on intake.
Husky beagles sound awful but my god they look cute
>>4885361I just went through this dilemma. For me it was a cost benefit thing. Even if they already come fixed (they do in my city), that’s an immediate vet visit for shots, dewormer, flea treatment, testing for felv/fiv, and probably bloodwork too to make sure everything else is good. From just a value perspective, the rescues are a great choice because all this covered in the adoption fee.It was also nice to learn more about the cat’s temperament before bringing her into my home with existing cats. And freeing up a space at a rescue csn help save a cat from a shelter. Still doing a good thing.
>>4889083I personally find that that private shelters that have contracts with the local governments to take in strays tend to have the best of both worlds - Cheaper adoption prices with a lot of the bells and whistles. Granted I don't know any shelter that does blood work for every cat and dog, I do know a lot that automatically test for FIV/FeLV.A decent dewormer is also really cheap, anyone not routinely deworming on intake is only hurting themselves. Flea/tick meds are really fucking expensive though unless you happen to get on the shelter program for some brands, which is easier said than done.
Should I go for an adult shelter dog? I don't particularly care about a dog's puppy phase if they're not a huge problem dog.
>>4890823I prefer adult shelter dogs over puppy shelter dogs - I consider puppy shelter dogs to be dogs on hard mode. If you're looking for a really easy dog, or a dog with a specific temperament, look into foster-based rescues or contact shelters about their dogs currently in foster homes. Fosters are generally pretty knowledgeable about their animals and won't want to give you an animal that doesn't fit what you're looking for Dogs on easy mode are going to be retired breeders from a reputable breeder, but as you can imagine those are not easy to come by, you may be waiting a few years. You could also get one of their pups that they were letting grow out that didn't make the cut for breeding/competition, but you'll be not only missing the cute puppy phase but also be getting a dog at around their asshole teenage years, not exactly what I'd call a simple project.
>>4888303I 'm sorry but you shouldn't be spreading misinformation swede. It's disingenuous.
>>4881492>Pic related>DID YOU KNOW "PIT BULL" ISN'T AN ACTUAL BREED?>LARGE and STOCKY dogs>Lists a fucking English Staffy as a PitbullWhat a garbage infographic that purposely obscures scale. Staffordshire Bull Terriers are short stature barely medium sized dogs. I don't think SBT's are even a popular breed in the US. Just feels like purposely muddying the water to make APBT's look less evil by throwing in a far less offensive breed. Especially since in the countries where SBT's are actually popular they definitely aren't considered Pitbulls and Pitbulls(APBT) in those countries are actually banned or heavily restricted.
>>4891688Police consider staffies to be pit bulls, and that's all that really matters.
>>4878099>Have you ever been to a shelter before? Many times, I like hanging out there with the animals>Have you or anyone you've known adopted an animal? I adopted 3 cats from the local shelter>Any preconceived notions you had about said shelter that were wrong? I didn't have any idea what it would be like, but I was very surprised by the cat rooms (like 50 cats per room just roaming around, you could just sit down on the floor and have cats pour over you)>Anything you wish you knew before going to the shelter? I wish before I adopted one of my kittens that someone would have told me she was bonded to another kitten there and that I would be separating them for life :(Picrel, one of muh curly cat
>>4881492No, pitbulls are not even 7% of dogs. 20% is a massive overshoot that triple counted returned dogs and sold then rehomed with a loose breed definition by people who denied using that breed type definition for bite statistics. You fell for pitbull pilpul.Pitbulls are 6% of dogs and kill 3 times more people than all other dogs combined. Also we STOPPED TRYING TO KILL THEM ALL, WHICH IS WHEN THE PROBLEM STARTED
>>4886408>bonsai kittens were fakeshould we tell her bros?
>>4892189wtf is a bonsai kitten? it grows on a tree?
>>4892187Pit bulls are more like 21-25% of the population, even more if we're considering mixes, and represent as such in bites.Your 7% is pure bred AKC registered Staffies. Which is like a single breed that is considered a pit bull. There's like 5 or 6 that are generally labeled pit bulls.
I have an issueI was looking at cats in a shelter about 30 min away and found 2 that I liked, a 2yo calico and an 11mo tortie. The calico (who I was most likely gonna choose) got adopted so it's only the tortie left. She's quiet and a bit shy and had been there all her life since she wasn't as playful and rambunctious as her siblings. My mom said that I should look around for other cats too at different shelter but if I did get another cat I'd feel kinda bad leaving her there. She let me pet and kiss her so it's not like she was completely antisocial. Should I go for her or just continue to look at other cats?This is her, they named her Maia
>>4892508>Pit bulls are more like 21-25% of the populationThe only source that offers this number up used a broad definition to count pitbulls and an ultra narrow definition to count pitbull bites (pitbullinfo, a site full of so much lies and bullshit that like flat earth it would require a research team to fully debunk)>Your 7% is pure bred AKC registered StaffiesNo, it's merrit clifton counting all puppies sold on the open market as pitbulls, because without a robust registration system adults can't be reliably counted and no one knows what breed the dog is supposed to be better than the breeder selling the puppies.
Anecdotally, I see exponentially more rottweilers, german shepherds, huskies, labs, and poodles than pitbulls... individually. Combined they outnumber pitbulls like ants outnumber people.Then again I live in first world America. The part that never kept slaves.
>>4892960That's a really hard question for an anon to answer. I guess it wouldn't hurt to keep looking, but it also sounds like you already made up your mind. I would be worried that even if you did find a cat that better suited your needs, you're still going to want that particular cat. All that being said, just try not to jump to a decision. Make sure the cat fits your lifestyle. If it needs to be good with kids/dogs/cats, etc. A lot of times animals in shelters are shut down and their true personalities only come out after being in a home for a few months. Her being quiet and shy may change to a loud and attention seeking cat, just like a very playful cat may become more of a lazy and aloof one when settled in.
>>4892508Wrong image?
>>4892967>Make sure the cat fits your lifestyleI'm a very quiet person and a homebody, so when I'm not at work I'd be with them most of the time. I'd say she fits but it would be nice to have a cat that was comfortable with a person or 2 coming over once in a while. My old cat was a love bug with me but bolted under my bed anytime someone she wasn't too familiar with came over. The calico I was going to go for was very chill with new people and let me hold and give her kisses (well tbf Maia let me give her kisses too)
>>4892994*I've decided to adopt her
>>4892994>>4893629ngl anon I had a feeling you would. Keep us updated!
>>4892964The slave part has a fuck ton of huskies, chis, and random shepherd but not quite german sheps too.
>>4892184IDK why but the way he curls his arm looks unreal>like 50 cats per room just roaming aroundI never understood how a shelter can have these cat hoarder starter packs that get along pretty well, but then you have 3 cats at home and they all seem to hate each other.Kittens are very rarely actually a bonded pair. While 'bonded pair' can mean different things to different people, it is usually reserved for animals where one or both would be severely affected by separation, to the extent that it negatively impacts their health.
>>4892960Here's how to properly adopt from a shelter:>which cat has been here the longest?>This one sir>I'll take it!It's that shrimple.
>>4892960>my mommy telling me what to doUnderage b&
What a little TLC can do is amazing.
The best part about dog rescue is looking at the unique mix breeds>>4883248>>4881174The reason is simply wrong breed in the wrong place. There is nothing inherently wrong with pits or huskies. But they are difficult breeds. Huskies require a lot of management and a confident owner. Pits are often poorly bred and require good socialization and exercise. Any time a breed becomes popular it is inevitable that people will pick the breed because they think it is cool rather than because it suits them. Where I live the dogs clogging up the shelter by a large margin are working livestock breeds. Maremmas having a huge spike lately, and in general heelers and kelpies and collies. The problem is always ownership. It is a fraction of a fraction of a percent of dogs that actually have hardcoded mental issues and those ones are almost always put down immediately. Most people shouldn't be allowed to own even a golden retriever.
If you get anything older than 8 months from the pound you are a certified retard and deserve all of the suffering you get. This only applied to dogs ofc cats are just living statues. Animals are free anyway, no reason to pay the jewish adoption fees when some redneck just has puppies.
>>4893989I remember when I was a kid we got our first dog off of my uncles. She was supposedly a 6 year old cattle dog who'd just lost her bonded mate and was depressed. They'd been feeding her trash like pizza crusts so she was so fat and haggard she looked so old. The day we got her we had steak so we gave her that for dinner, the next night my mother went to feed her the food we'd been told she ate, it was this disgusting smelling mince, and she just deflated. It was like she because she'd had something else she'd thought she'd gotten away from it and now she realized she had to eat it again. We threw it out immediately needless to say. She settled in so quickly and was such a sweet dog. We managed to get her in shape and it was like she de-aged 5 years. We found out later that our uncle was full of shit and she was actually 9 when we got her.
>>4895438It depends on what you're looking for. Most people don't want a super well trained dog. Most people who get puppies don't even put the work in to lay the foundations for it anyway. Other than that a lot of people who rescue do it out of kindness, they don't really care if their dog isn't perfect.
>>4895440Okay enjoy your 3 year old murder hobo then you childless moron. Dogs aren't hard to train. You crate train them as puppie, teach them to shit outside and if they eat shoes, furniture or bite someone you beat the shit out of them one time. Nu pet owners are such retards treating animals like children.
>>4895446Unhinged post
>>4895447Sure thing bud have fun adopting fully adult dogs doing their bid in the pen
>>4895448I have adopted three fully adult dogs
>>4895449Why?
>>4895451I've never been interested in a puppy until recently
>>4895440I am amazed at the amount of people that drop hundreds on a purebred dog to be a lawn ornament. It just doesn't make sense to me.
>>4895730People are retarded all around. People will drive 8 hours to buy a purebred Maremma puppy straight off of a farm to keep in their tiny house with limited yard access because they have a shitty fence, never walk it and turn around and say "nah that breeder was sketchy that's why my dog has to take anxiety medication". All because te breed is 'heckin floof wholesome chungus'. People are children, they're not realistic about anything they want.
>>4895948>Maremma puppyIn Texas it's fucking great pyrs for all the larpsteaders. Instead of getting one of the several livestock guardian breeds made for hot weather, they get a heckin floofer to guard their 6 backyard chickens, which can barely handle 80F weather. Then they don't train them or socialize them and drop them off at the shelter when they kill the animals they are supposed to guard, or never get them fixed and create a bunch of pyr mixes.
>>4896974It's a brutal problem. There is a crisis in my country at the moment. Literally 100% of shelters and rescues are double capacity. Foster carers are having to go out of pocket to keep dogs. Yet you'll see brainlets talk about "dude its the pitbulls fault". Well there aren't even pitbulls in my country. It's at a point where shelters aren't even posting to rescue sites, they're just throwing up pictures of dogs on their social media with their due dates because most of them aren't making it more than 10 days from intake.People are getting protection breeds and encouraging them to be anti-social, people are getting working breeds and not exercising them, the list goes on. Then they've created two problems, now there's an extra dog in the system and that dog has problems.
>>4895730>I am amazed at the amount of people that drop hundreds on a purebred dog to be a lawn ornament.I had an old friend that did that, and it really made no senseShelled out $3k each for a purebred Husky and German Shepard, neutered both of them, and then proceeded to go to work for 10 hours a day and leave them in a cage. Never even walked them much either, so they were constantly barking and running around the house. Sucked to see how frustrated those dogs were.
>>4897982My neighbor has an aussiedoodle, english setter, English Sheepdog, and an afghan hound that sit in their backyard all day waiting by the door to come in, only interrupted by barking at everyone passing by. That's god to be at least 3k in dogs just waiting to die in that yard.Meanwhile I actually live in a place that has a variety of dogs in shelters dying regularly. Kind of wish we could ship them up to some northern states that bitch about only having big dogs or bully breeds.
For the love of god make this off-set kennel system more common in animal shelters. I keep seeing new shelter construction, and the retarded architects put 0 thought into the dog kennels which is arguably the most important section of an animal shelter besides the medical suite. Just fucking rooms with glass or bar kennels facing each other, just causing as much anxiety as possible.With pic related, the dogs aren't seeing each other, you have more 'space' when getting a dog in/out of a kennel, a person coming up to one kennel will be obscured from sight from the dogs to the left and right which should keep attention barking down.
>>4898380We only have shitbulls because the worthless barren whores that control every shelter and rescue are importing the heartworm ridden pests from the south, where 99% of the stray dogs are. These fucking masturbating spinsters have NO STAKE IN THE FUTURE. If the country is flooded with genetically inferior, dangerous “dogs” they call that a win. They dont have kids after all. If the future is one where no short haired, even somewhat blocky dog can be trusted and “anti doggy racist” laws begin restricting ALL medium to large dogs because “durr itsda owner, notda pibbuls” they do not care. They have no kids. They often HATE CHILDREN. Bring back kill shelters. Dogs people actually want are not going anywhere. Dogs that need propaganda on TV and anti BSL lobbies painting them as mascots of racism and masculinity to joe shmoe and symbolic of the fight against racism to jen “sakura” jones (she/her/them), however…
>>4893989I brought her home yesterday, she hasn't left my room yet but she's a real love bug
>>4895446Would you also beat a child? You sound like a abuser
>>4898973>already out of the carrier and chilling in the openYour cat is settling in a lot better than mine ever did
>>4899817Yeah it's her 3rd day here and she's fully explored my room and a bit of the hallway and bathroom. She hasn't eaten or drank much though which worries me, just a few nibbles of the canned tuna and that's it, she hasn't touched her dry food. Overall she's adjusting really well
>>4892187>Pitbull pilpul
>>4878099cute
>pitbull>pitbull>husky>shepherd>husky>pitbull>pitbullMeanwhile a single frenchie comes in and there's crackheads coming out of the woodworks trying to claim it as theirs with google photo pics. There's something to be said about dogs that can't breed on their own.
>>4894969Besides the kennel bitches constantly working to keep things sanitary, shelters have the luxury of choice when shoving cats together. The asshole fighting cat of one room might become the shy hermit when booted to another space. Anyone that doesn’t behave can be euthanized, kept solitary, or shuttled to different rooms until they run out of chances. The lack of established patterns and predictable space to compete over actually kinda helps. It’s just harder to run a typical stable home like a chaotic gulag long term.
>>4900473frenchies have fence valuehttps://youtu.be/DfxcorzsEEU?si=BX9PMMyZh6FopJyJ
>>4881492>Pit bulls are the most common type of dog in the US, making them the cheapest to obtain.Labrador retrievers are the most common specific breed, followed by retrievers as the most common type most years (although last couple of years apparently French bulldogs were extremely popular). You're confusing most common type IN SHELTERS vs. all dogs owned in the US.
>>4900680Frenchies arent that popular either, thats akc stats. Less than half of dogs are AKC registered. The entire country is mostly retrievers, spitzes, collies, and hounds with a smattering of pitbull mutts. Small chi-terriers outnumber them all.
Anyone's shelter doing anything for Halloween? Local shelter used to promote black cats, but that went out of style when too many people were literally adopting them for party aesthetics and would return them the following day.
>>4900833>many people were literally adopting them for party aesthetics and would return them the following day:(
>halloween overwe have one month to prepare for the holiday madness.
We're already getting questions on why our shelter euthanized that squirrel lol (we're nowhere near NY)FWIW, municipal shelters legally can't keep wild animals; it's why we have such an issue with people surrendering 'wolf-dogs' because they are this grey area as they aren't quite domestic and aren't really wild. ACO might be able to keep them caged for a few hours but they don't have a facility to put them in. They have to contact private wildlife rehabs (there are no municipal wildlife rehabs; your DEC or Parks and Wildlife may have some animals on office site, but that is more akin to your boss bringing their dog into work; it's generally a personal project animal) to take in animals - private rehabs are totally within their right to deny intake even if it is from a government official.All the shelters in the state, except for a very select few, are NOT associated with each other. So no, I can't input your complaint to NYC ACC lol and that shelter had literally no dealings with what happened.Anyways if anyone has any questions about the situation I guess I can answer - I've been spending all morning answering fucking questions about it.
>>4878099Shelter overpopulation where they have to euthanize a bunch of strays is due to Mexican immigration.Every white and black demographic area I’ve lived in has well kept animal shelters. The opposite for every Mexican filled town and city, like Texas for example. My hometown which used to be white is now full of Mexicans and the shelter is now a mess. Mexicans/ Latin American immigrants frequently are reported dumping their animals on the side of the road. They never get them spayed or neutered, ever.I can’t find any other cause for this phenomenon other than a cultural difference in the immigrants who don’t value animals or keeping society nice
>>4902503They still keep “outdoor dogs” and are the people on /an/ telling you all animals belong outdoorsthey have never known a clean indoor/outdoor animal because that would mean its owner grooms it and picks up after it, and everyone they know is lazy.
>>4902531Can confirm that dog owners in rural TX keep their dogs outside 24/7. The good ones may bring them into a garage or laundry room if there's a heavy rain or it gets close to freezing. People thought I was weird when I'd make sure my dog was inside when I was going to leave for the day.Fixed dogs are also not the norm here, and having dogs free-roaming is just common place and people 'put up with' aggressive dogs running the neighborhoods. It's like how outdoor cats are viewed in the north - it's so common to see dogs free roaming outside that you just assume it's someone's pet. It's just a different culture here.Pick related is Dallas
>>4902151how long until you go completeley NUTZ?
>>4878099Post more funny names.
>>4894969The cat that was bonded had severe separation anxiety the first few months, and the very first night with us she woke us up with blood curdling howls looking for her lost friend :(She still does that to some extent but now instead of looking for her friend she howls like that every night looking for her favorite stuffed toy, it sounds like she's singing, she has a ritual around it: howl while wandering around the house looking for it, find it, then drag it around howling until she finds one of us, then drop it on the floor in front of us waiting and whining until we pick it up, then go quiet and wander off until next timeIt is funny but sad and I think if I was able to take them both at once she would not have this "quirk"Here she is in a lap nap
>>4902503I think it is a bit more nuanced than that, and there is likely multiple factors compounding on each other that is causing a lot of overpopulation. But I do believe the huge difference cultures have in treating animals plays a role.I was in a border city for HVHQ s/n. We did an independent poll and found only 6% of respondents even consider cats as pets. Mexican culture has a big focus on masculinity, and getting dogs fixed (even females, but especially males) is frowned upon as feminine. Pet dogs are kept outside 24/7 and not contained, so they are basically strays to us.>I can’t find any other cause for this phenomenonHousing crisis, poor economy, distrust in medical professionals, the results of COVID puppy boom, society leaning more sedentary, more people turning to shelters in need instead of dumping/euthanasia/rehoming etc, growing population in general, growing population of different cultures, no-kill movement, shitty education, the supporting of BYB and puppy mills...I think all of these are fairly large factors. The issue is bad enough where I don't think we can blame it on a single source.
My dog Poppins died today. I had to come home and bury her. I got her 10 years ago along with another dog, thelma at the shelter her size, I had to bury her on Monday. I do not have photos of thelma because I broke my phone and they're on my computer. Poppins died from a broken heart. Both of these dogs grew up with my 3 children.
The best dog I ever had I got from a rescue. She took a lot of work, but the bond we have is so deep, more so than the 5 other dogs that have been in my life. I’d love to adopt another, but right now having two dogs is enough. Maybe in a few years.
>>4878282My dog was mostly normal when he first came home. He became even more hyperactive, energetjc and bonehead in a few weeks the though. I understand that not all dogs are that tough and outgoing though, and him being half mal kinda contributes to it
>>4904315FCute doggo lady
>>4904315I'm sorry for your loss anon. It never gets any easier.
>>4903433i gotchuI actually got a dog adopted solely by its name before.
read up the thread and checked OP links. but i wanna know any tips for entering a shelter for the sake of adopting a cat. i did it twice and i got one decent cat and one shitty one. any signs to watch out for, like too much cuddling or meowing?
I don’t know how active these threads are, but seeking advice.We took home (foster to adopt) a dog from a city shelter. He followed my wife home on a run. We took him to the nearest shelter that night cuz we figured he was lost and we couldn’t care for him at that moment. We’ve got another dog and cats - we just weren’t ready. We were hoping whoever lost him would find him. He’s definitely someone’s dog, house trained, jumped in the car like it was nothing, the sweetest thing. But not fixed and no chip or collar. Anyway, 5 days later and no one claimed him so we felt a bit obligated. This shelter (big city shelter) is a nightmare. So we brought him home.Near perfect animal, gets along with other dog, well behaved, but he’s a fucking spaz with the cats. Chases after them, can’t help himself, almost no regards to his surroundings in his pursuit. Don’t think he’s trying to hurt them, just playing, but he has zero chill and it’s not manageable currently. We’re looking for someone to take him. We’d gladly do it, again perfect in all other regards,but the situation with the cats seems unrepairable. Anyone have any experience with this?
>>4878099Friendly reminders that foreign invaders will kill and eat any animal they see. Keep these cute guys safe by deporting all orcs
>>4905758Are you in the US, if so what state? I've been thinking about adopting a dog for a while now. So, I was just curious! Could it be because the cats are smaller? Have you seen him behave around smaller dogs?
>>4880787uh no other rabbit breeds like lions head, are you dumb?
Anyone have tips for finding a missing cat? I live in a small neighborhood that's surrounded by thousands of acres of woods. My two cats are indoor/outdoor and it's not unusual for them to disappear 2 or 3 days at a time but they usually stick together. They left Thursday and one came back Saturday evening. He has a bloody wound on his neck and the last couple of inches of his tail was degloved. The other cat hasn't returned.
>>4905726I need more info anon. What are you looking for in a cat? Something cuddly? Something active? Something that doesn't bother you?Kittens can be a crapshoot, imo it is easier to grab an adult cat that already has it's personality set. Unless you want active and playful, kittens will usually at least carry that out.>>4905758I'd advise training around the cats even if you don't plan to keep him; even if people don't own cats, they tend to not like dogs that don't like cats.Look into slow introduction, the drop it and leave it command, and slow exposure.Look into Human Animal Support Services to help you out during this time and Supported Self Rehome. There's a lot of animal rehoming services that allow owners to rehome themselves, as opposed to having to go through a shelter or rescue. AdoptAPet is a big one, there's also HomeToHome, GetYourPet, and also try to utilize social media like Facebook and Nextdoor. You could also try hooking up with a rescue to see if you can do a foster situation with your dog while they promote him for adoption.If he isn't already, getting him fixed and UTD on vaccines will make him easier to adopt out. Get good photos at eye level with eye contact - photos are going to be the foot in the door for adoptions.>>4905875I'm hoping someone else comes along with advice because all I can think of is checking your neighborhood and local pounds. You can try leaving out a used litter box and setting traps, but that is usually more for indoor cats that got out. But I guess it wouldn't hurt
Is it wrong to adopt a dog if I'm living out of my van and traveling around the country? The dog wouldn't have much normalcy of locales in the early days/weeks.
>>4905891I wouldn't say it is inherently wrong, but it does make things difficult. You'll have to answer a few questions for yourself.The big problem I see with this is going to be vet care, because I see this problem with truckers finding vet care. If you're traveling a lot, you're going to likely see a new vet every fucking check up, or if you do sometimes see the same vet it will look like there is a huge lapse in care. Seeing a new patient takes longer, might be more expensive because it takes longer, and sometimes vets won't accept the vaccine schedule the last vet did and will require new boosters. For example, my vet will vaccinate an adult dog with unknown vax history just once, but AAHA will require an adult dog with unknown vax history to be vaccinated with a booster, which means 1 vax, then 3-4 weeks later another vax. So if you go to an AAHA clinic and they see your dog's first vax had no booster, they may require a booster with this vaccine. If that makes sense.If your dog becomes chronically or seriously ill, it may be very hard transferring paperwork and vet records, and finding vets that may need to deal with specialty issues. Pharmacies may also be a problem.Beyond that, I think it is mostly going to be a problem with you so to speak. You'll have to be able to walk the dog at least 2xd if not more. You'll have to tire the dog out yourself. You won't have a fenced in yard or doggy daycare, and you probably can't utilize apps like Rover much because you'll be traveling a lot, and they often require to meet your dog first to make sure it won't fucking eat them. So if you get sick or tired, you'll still have to deal with this dog.>The dog wouldn't have much normalcy of localesLiterally doesn't matter. Your van won't change much, that's all that matters.I don't believe most dogs need a ton of space, I think they more often need mental/physical stimulation provided by an owner. I actually prefer appt owners because of this.
>>4905891Oh I forgot to mention, if you don't have an address it will be exceptionally difficult to adopt from most shelters and rescues; you may be able to adopt still from municipal pounds who don't give a fuck where their animals go because it costs tax dollars, but a lot of private shelters actually double as pounds nowadays which means they are funded by donors. There are a few issues with no address. You can't do a comprehensive background check without an address. For the most part they are just making sure you don't abuse animals or diddle kids, and avoiding addresses is a common kiddy diddler tactic in my experience, because the constant moving prolongs having to tell people you diddle kids.It also is concerning in the fact that you may be homeless or not really have the funds to care for an animal. Homelessness/housing has been the main cause for surrendering pets the past year. It is getting harder and harder for people to find housing, let alone housing with animals. I know van life can be super ultra poor lifestyle, or rich hippy lifestyle depending on how it's done. I have actually almost adopted animals out to literally homeless people before, with the only barrier being that they had no address for the adoption paperwork.You will probably still be able to adopt from owners looking to rehome (check >>4905878 for such websites). Or you could try parking your van in one of those long term RV lots for a bit to get a mailing address for adoption.
>>4906248>>4906251Thanks for the advice! I'll keep it in mind.
>>4878099Last weekend, this little girl snuck into my garage. Was able to get the poor thing crated, and put a blanket in there for her. She's well fed, has water, and is indoors now. Poor thing is 5.8lbs, 5-7 months old, and a previous trap-neuter-return. With it being winter where I'm at, releasing her back into the freezing snow at this point isn't an option. No responses to any social media postings, has no chip. What's truly heartbreaking is, she's unsocialized but and scared of humans, so she's never been given a true chance. Her rapid response test did come back positive for FIV+, pending PCR results. Crossing my fingers it just detected the mothers antibodies. But has anyone had an FIV+ alongside their FIV-? I don't want to risk my current cats health. But, none of my cats are aggressive.Rescues are all inundated, but we're going to pester them for a while. Since she's unsocialied and possibly has FIV, I do struggle to believe she'll find a home quickly. I am spending time with her every few hours, just talking softly and slow blinking to build trust. Everything is healthy, stools are solid, great appetitie, eyes/ears/mouth all clean. Also, if anyone has a good name for here, please feel free to let me know!
>>4906264>has anyone had an FIV+ alongside their FIV-?Look into the current FIV/FeLV literature on this; it is now more greatly supported that with adult healthy cats, transmission is actually quite rare. They are now supporting keeping these cats with healthy household cats. Things get a little more shaky when you're talking kittens, or something like colony cats where immune systems may be taxed.But please don't take my word for it and read into it yourself, maybe ask your vet, I'd hate to be the reason your cats got FIV.RIP all of those friendly FeLV cats I've had to euthanize the past 10y lol>nameSomething stupid or unhinged. Like BloodBlood the FaceShredder
>>4906268Thank you anon! The articles my vet provided me also confirmed that it's a very low risk of transmission between indoors and outdoors. Still a hard thought to stomach. Money isnt an issue thankfully, so I'll make sure she gets the care she needs. We toyed with the idea of isolation in a basement long term, but that is dreary and shatters my heart. She's staying in the walk-in closet for the foreseeable future. Currently spending an hour in here every other hour doing slow blinks, speaking softly etc. All I want is for her to have a chance at good life.
Just had to relinquish ownership of a pup. My mom thought we could handle another one but after a month or so we've noticed multiple concerning behaviors from him and we couldn't afford neither time, money, nor energy wise, to give him the special type of environment he needed to succeed in. He's a good kid but we don't have what it takes to raise him on top of what we're already dealing with at home. We consulted with several people before making this choice, including a veterinarian we worked with for close to a decade now and she believes that given the situation this is the best choice for him and for the rest of the family. It really sucks because I really felt that he has amazing potential but we couldn't give him the training and environment he needs. Apparently the vet has connections with the foster system and knew someone who was willing to take him in but I am still worried since there isn't really a firm answer on where he'll turn out. Hopefully he'll find someone who is willing to adopt him, but there's always this lingering doubt in my mind.Did anyone else go through this? Anyone experienced in the foster care system or shelters willing to give a few pointers on how things will work out? I'm just lost at this and doubt is running rampant in my mind.
>>4905878>I need more info anon. What are you looking for in a cat? Something cuddly? Something active? Something that doesn't bother you?one that won't attack me every time i attempt to pet him. one that likes cuddles. active i don't care much for, as long as he isn't fat or begging for it
>>4906400Think of it this way, you'd rather the dog be rehomed than own a dog you can't take care of, right? Because that would end up being neglect. Ultimately it is out of your hands now, I would argue there is little point in dwelling on it.>>4906518If you are actively avoiding a very active cat, keep your search to at least 1.5y+. A cat that is cuddly in a shelter is likely going to be very cuddly in a calmer home setting. A cat that isn't cuddly in a shelter doesn't necessarily mean they won't be cuddly at home, but it is more of a gamble. Stress is likely to make cats aloof, scared, and act on the defensive. Getting cats from a foster may be helpful because you'll already know their rough behavior in a home setting.Keep in mind the cat ecosystem you have at home too; the cats may get along OK, but still leave enough room for fear/anxiety/stress that they aren't as cuddly as normal. Make sure the cats have a lot of places to get away and hide both high up and down low, multiple locations for litter boxes and water so one cat isn't 'stalking' those areas.There is no friendliness distinction among male and female cats. Coat color or pattern is also not related to behavior.
>>4906626Yeah, I guess the best I can do is redirect focus on my other 2 dogs and ensure they have fulfilling lives too
>>4881492>The better question is how do we fix it, because trying to kill them all hasn't worked the past 4 decades.Go to the inner city where they're bred like rabbits and neuter/kill every one you get your hands on. The alternative of adopting them all out, breeding them to extinction, or sending them to an isolated pacific island are all not feasible, so just got to double-down on culling their population domestically via kill shelters and neutering/spaying them if the dog is already adopted.
>>4906626thanks for the advice, got this girl yesterday. i'm up for names, i like lisa the most so far
>>4908047You should get inspiration from a Path of Exile boss.
>>4907596That is literally what they did in CO since like the 90's. It was severe enough that their legislature included service dogs and a very very wide range of dogs. Quebec did the same and saw an increase in hospitalizations. Look at the UK having banned the breed aggressively for decades, and they're a small island that can really control it. It is obviously not working.You should instead gain inspiration from places that seem to have shit under control, and why. Japan, Sweden, Finland, Norway.It might also be worth looking into some countries that have an even worse issue, as their problems may be exaggerated and more easily recognized, like the phillipines, india, romania, etc.
>picking out puppies for rescue in a very under funded inner city municipal shelter>they say to pick whatever we want (strange, there are usually off-limit animals for stray holds, adoption pending, etc)>they throw all of their young puppies (<8w) in one giant pen>well shit I guess we'll take these guys>go to parvo test them because they seem lethargic >every single one pops a positive>during testing, an owner comes up to pick up their 5w old spaniel puppy that they somehow lost last night and was picked up by ACO (I guess they're ignoring the mandatory stray hold)>go to tell the employee aside that this puppy was a hard parvo positive>"alright">they never tell the ownerVery rarely have I gone to a 'high kill' shelter and it lived up to it's nefarious reputation. This is one of those times. Easily the worst shelter I have ever had to step foot in. Their live release rate is in like the 30% range and it seems to largely be their fault.
>>4909037The problem is the NOTRUEPIBBLE squad>uh its a totally different dog because they cant be blue its out of standard>white german shepherd: *bites you*>TYPICAL SHITPERD>GSD people: yes, they are dangerous dogs that need strict training.
>>4909369CO ban was so wide in it's description that a doxie was euth because of it. So it doesn't explain why that ban never worked. It's under their dangerous dog act.