This is the proof of work puzzle. 2 Trillion dollar market cap in the name of computing SHA hashes. LOL. What a fucking joke. You guys are all greedy and pathetic.
>>59283981I have a lot of money tho
>trustless money is…le bad!cry moar fiatcel
>>59284027how do you sleep at night knowing we're wasting incredible amounts of energy on your toy money
>>59284093>muh energy!China just built a high net positive tokamak last week, I guarantee we'll still be hearing this argument in 3 years time when energy is literally fractions of a cent on todays dollar and there's an exceeding surplus of energy.
>>59284107What about the fact that cobalt is not infinite?
>>59284093>wasteThe cost fiat corrupting the price signal of money is an order of magnitude more than the gdp of earth, you are the waste, fiatcel
>>59284107proof of work scales to consume whatever energy is available, it doesn't matter if we have fusion or dyson spheres, it's still a waste of energy
>>59283981The fact that there are still people on biz fudding bitcoin is absolutely wild to me. It’s literally a world-changing technology. It’s still young but has cemented itself in the financial sector, and has proven that it’s not going anywhere. You guys are either bobo trolls or just legitimatey retarded.>t. owned bitcoin since 2013
>>59284136in what way is my post fear, uncertainty or doubt? I'm literally just saying it's a waste of time and energy
>>59284027Kek, op is definitely a mETHhead, not a fiatcel>please buy my PoS shitcoin saars. PoW is bad
>>59284146actually i'm thinking about a physics simulation token
>>59284113Tokamaks use deuterium and tritium as fuel, there is a lot of hydrogen.>Average fiatcelJust remember not to drink dihydrogen oxide, you might die, you fucking lizardman.
>>59284144By your logic, so is your life
>>59284144It’s the invention of digital scarcity. The amount of energy and computing power required to mine is why it’s so great. I’m sorry you don’t think that matters, but it does. It’s verifiable, impossible to counterfeit, and cannot be centralized. This topic has been talked to death already. See you in ten years when one BTC = $1 million
>>59284227Ok, so you like wasting resources, great.
>>59284212
>>59283981You had 15 fucking years
>>59284261YesOil is bountiful, nuclear energy is making a resurgence, and FUCK YOUR HIPPY DIPPY BULLSHIT
>>59284287not wasting resources isn't hippy, it's just common sense
>>59284287also see>>59284127Proof of work scales to consume whatever energy is available
>>59283981its how the chain stays secure retard the whole point is to make a trustless system assuming bad actors like niggers that know how to hack
>>59283981Assuming T is on the order of 2^x, and assuming that hashes generated by SHA-256 is U~(0, 2^256 - 1), then:>2^x / 2^256 = 2^(256-x) valid hashesAssuming 1 TOPS network processing capacity, it will take on average 2^(256 - x)/ 10^12 seconds to generate a new block
>>59284396minorities scale to consume whatever resources and energy is available. i dont see u condemning them?
>>59284398yea but the computation should actually do something useful
>>59284146Eth isn’t trustless, he might as well be a fiatcel. 51% of eth grants complete control forever, 51% ownership of btc gives you 51% of all bitcoin, nothing more
>>59284261Not wasting, using to generate a trustless fixed unit of account: perfect money. As Szabo notes, trusted third parties are a security hole too large to leave open in money. Using someone "real trustworthy" to guard money isn't a fix, the problem is the TTP, if you remove trust from money it can't be corrupted.1 BTC = 1/21m of BTC, forever. Realize how revolutionary that is, a trustless, fixed, autonomous, decentralized unit. That is what we've always wanted from money, it's why gold was used, because the natural properties of gold create an approximation of a unit. But gold isn't fixed in supply and is only low trust, and even then only low trust in physical form. As economies became more complicated gold needed to be abstracted rendering gold entirely trust-based, opening the door to corruption and the current sorry state of money.What we want from money has always been the unit, by having a unit of account we reduce the number of prices from n^n to n. We cannot engage in complex economic calculation without a unit, but the units we've been forced to use out of necessity do not provide a clean economic signal, with a trustless fixed unit of account the efficiency of economic calculation is increased massively
>>59284455It does: It generates a trustless fixed unit of account.
>>59283981>i am the ultimate arbiter of valuePoW good and you are dumb, i win
>muh energyOk, who let r/buttcoin out of its cage again?
i always wondered why they couldnt find a way to implement proof of work so the computing power does some scientific good, like with the folding@home shit
>>59284670"perfect money" except bitcoin transactions are slow and expensive, and lost keys mean lost money, and once transactions are added to the ledger they are irreversible. And even if you are a criminal and all that sounds like pros to you, the ledger is public and traceable so it's not even good for criminal activity.
>>59284093how can you deem it waste when it's what profit-minded actors are choosing to use electricity for? powering the bitcoin network is a far more worthy task than powering kiked out bank #9001you're just malding that eth is at multi-year lows versus bitcoin because you geniunely believed in the flippening LOL get fucked faggot
>>59284670also it just casually waves away the importance of monetary policy or the fed and says "yea we don't need that, everything will be perfectly fine if the monetary system has no centralized authority"
>>59284840i don't think it's a complete waste, I'm exaggerating a little for effect(as are you), i'm just exploring it's value and pointing out that crypto would be more useful if the proof of work actually did something useful
>>59284834Better than some piece of shit fiat that's controlled by central authority who can print as much as they want.What's left? Gold? Mining wastes a ton of energy/resources and it can be stolen much more easily. Can't even take it on a plane without some fag customs official asking you about it.
>>59284859actual gold sounds atleast more grounded in reality, not sure why some people are so excited for something as intangible and pointless as bitcoin
>>59284880you had 15 years to figure it out, and still haven't. that's troubling anon
>>59284880It's valuable BECAUSE it's intangible a.k.a. doesn't take as much (if any) physical infrastructure to store/transport compared to gold. If you still can't see how that's valuable, I'm sorry, you had 15 years.
>>59284834anon, it takes my bank 3 business days to send money to another account
>>59284856securing and continuing the existence of the blockchain is useful
>>59284983>>59285010why does everyone keep repeating "you had 15 years" like that's supposed to mean something
>>59283981> Your cryptocurrency system isn't complicated enough, and I'm mad about it.k
>>59285079fair, but if SHA is broken it's no good anyway
15 years to be this knowledgeable but still not buy bitcoin
>>59285196Eh, i have plenty of money, I just don't like it.
>>59285201You would have way more if you went all in on bitcoin when this video came out
>>59285212This remains my favorite video warning people about Bitcoin. Criminally underrated, circa 2015.
>>59284842Those things should be aggressively waved away
>>59284880>I don't understand how using independently verifiable computerized credit system makes sense, we should use shiny rocks I found in the ground instead.
>>59284834> bitcoin transactions are slow and expensiveIrrelevant. Only net demand encodes novel information into the price signal>lost keys mean lost money, and once transactions are added to the ledger they are irreversible. . . and the ledger is public and traceableFeatures. Not trustless if these aren’t true
>>59284842> yea we don't need that, everything will be perfectly fine if the monetary system has no centralized authorityNot fine, better. Reread what I wrote, corruption of the price signal of money is incomprehensibly expensive.
>>59284146>bitcoin designed to be peer to peer currency>fails miserably>BTC maxis cope by claiming SoV narrative>have no answer for security budget issueBTC to zero boomer
> BTC designed as a peer-to-peer electronic cash system> shitty dev didn't take scalability into account> acts like a 1920s car surrounded by contemporary supercars> price is led by previously convicted fraudsters and snake oil sellers
>>59284880Gold can only be close to trustless in physical form, as soon as you abstract it you introduce trust and therefore corruption, but you must abstract it to use as a unit of account. This is true for all physical things, this is not true of bitcoin.
>>59285349"A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash", Ecash was centralized, Bitcoin is entirely peer-to-peer. It is not a statement of intent, it is a functional description. The working title was more fitting “electronic cash system without trusted third parties”, but I assume Satoshi intentionally wanted to downplayed the potential UoA functionality of btc in an effort to give it time to grow
>>59285345>price signal of moneyfair but btc is the only crypto people care about and it's protocol is basically unchangeable due to inertia and it's design flaws will prevent if from ever becoming truly useful as a currency
>>59285123if SHA is broken your bank accounts are emptied and so are your broker accounts
>>59285488Why would you use the UoA as currency? Again, only net demand encodes novel information. We can use btc, in its current form, as a trustless fixed unit of account. UoA demand is the source of almost all value, there is no fundamental reason AAPL should trade @ 40 pe, but there is reason, AAPL is a much better UoA than dollars, or bonds, or small cap equities. But it’s much better for every positive sum actor to have a trustless fixed unit available, btc was first, btc is largest, btc has proven track record of successful game theory keeping it trustless, btc is before your eyes becoming that unit.
>>59283981Nice rage bait, is this how sideliners cope?Notably, you can carry your Bitcoin across borders without any physical possessions and access it permissionless with just an internet connection.People believe that shiny metals serve as financial reserves. Why shouldn't they believe in the digital equivalent?
>>59285539except state actors(who are the most likely ones to have broken SHA-256) have no reason to destabilize the normal financial system and every reason to destabilize bitcoin
>>59285560the biggest reason not to use bitcoin is that the distribution system is/was unfair and the early adopters have the vast majority of the coins
>>59285641>load ze nsa fud
>>59285650Everyone had equal access, early adopters are justly rewarded for seeing btc’s potential and putting resources into btc to grow the network. Initial distribution isn’t super important anyway, as long as a supermajority aren’t held by insiders (like every shitcoin including eth)
>>59285681yea but the normal monetary system and distribution of wealth was largely decided by actual work, not SHA-256 hashes and being a speculator, so why should I support it again?
>>59285681>as long as a supermajority aren’t held by insiders (like every shitcoin including eth)You claim that more than 50% of ETH is held by insiders? KEK
>>59285650Sure, USD in which one entity has more than 30% of ever produced dollars seems like a more secure solution, thanks.
>>59284122best reply gets least attention, as usual
>>59284136its shit you dumb retard only an idiot or a chink shill would have your opinion
>>59283981>>59284093So I presume you're heavily invested in PoS chains? Or do you have a separate cope for why that's bad?>>59285713>normal monetary system and distribution of wealth was largely decided by actual workOh yes the billionaires are all coal miners
>>59284093I seriously think the more electricity we use the better. It forces innovation the same way war forces military and medical progress
>>59284834>slow and expensivebase layer is global settlement layer. not for low value noise.>irreversiblethats a feature not a bug.reread bitcoin standard or watch a summary online if ur a nigger.
>>59284396>Proof of work scales to consume whatever energy is availableNo it doesn't, it scales for demand, not supply. How can it possibly know what the supply of energy in real life is
>>5928589875% premine/vc sale. eth is a scam chain like sol>>59285713Unit of account, money-as-tally-board, is the primary function of money. It is this function that enables economic calculation, it is this function that enforces the game theory of voluntary exchange which frees us from the hobbesian war of all-against-all.We now have an immortal, incorruptible, trustless, stateless, transparent tally board to ensure all the big, important tallies add up. If the current tally board is fair, then BTC should have a value of zero, if the current tally board is corrupt, BTC will approach Sole Denominator in-the-limit. Is the current tally board fair? Which path are we on?
>>59284093If its bad for society I consider it good (it accelerates our demise). If it makes midwit middle class centrist cucks mad, even better.
