Thread for all other lolita topics and releases. Misako posted a new release. It's an Innocent World x Oshi No Ko collaboration.https://twitter.com/aokimisako/status/1815973551889080387/
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>>10930248Dump end
i'm sick of all these maxi length dresses.
>>10930239wow, the Oshi No Ko IW collab falls flat for me. it's so bland, I really wish they added more details to the jacket and skirt. I dropped the ONK manga bc of the sibling situation but I hope they collab with meta or baby or something and make a lolita appropriate version of one of Ai's stage costumes.
innocent world used to be the best, now the dresses are all way too long and the designs 9 times out of 10 are extremely boring. like they couldn't have added lace trim to the ONK collab skirts or something? or even a braid detail? so depressing, man.
>>10930315they've also gone the mostly-polyester route, too. IW used to have such nice cotton, but their most recent cotton release felt like cheap quilting fabric, and their poly feels costume-grade. sad. at least they still make good socks, i guess.
>>10930323the socks are gorgeous designs but they stretch throughout the day and fall down on me if i'm doing a lot of walking, unfortunately. i never have that problem with baby but baby's stuff doesn't always go well with classic. ugh
>>10930326strange, they stay up well for me. maybe you should get sock glue.
>>10930326none of my IW socks have ever stretched out like you describe and I'm very tall, is it just one pair or multiple that this has happened to?
>>10930289nayrt, I don't dislike maxi length but I just think it doesn't work with the large majority of the designs shown here. Like they got a knee length dress design and just kept going.The dress that misako is wearing in this picture >>10930242 is the only one I really like and I would still ditch that petticoat/underskirt.>>10930315I love most of the old school IW designs. Who decided to change direction and why I wonder. There is obviously a demographic for this, just not in the western comm afaik.
>>10930494supposedly the long length is popular in japan, which is why so many brands are doing it.
>>10930532yep
>>10930494Aging Japanese lolitas would be my guess. Not a lot of young girls there are into lolita these days.
>>10930569yep, that's exactly it.
>>10930494I've always wondered if IW and Victorian Maiden are both trying to appeal to people who are more interested in historical costuming and more traditionally historical looking outfits. It's also a stupid idea, because it alienates their original customer base, but who knows. Unrelated, but I hate hate hate seeing nothing but fugly taobao OTT classic monsters every time I try to search for classic lolita inspiration. I get jumpscared every time I open a "classic lolita" pinterest board. It's always that or baggy baby dresses that look like an Anne of Green Gables larp. It's so frustrating that good brands and polished coordinates have given way to the slop taobao brands are churning out.
Anybody going to Animaga in Melbourne next month?There's a gothic lolita panel...
>>10930809that picture horrifies me, I hate this kind of OTT frou frou mess regardless of who makes it. And yes, when I went searching for a good guide for lolita (to give a beginner the link) most of the results depicted chinese brands, and by the look of it not the decent quality ones either. Don't ask me to name the ones that have decent quality, I've been out of the loop a long time regarding chinese brands so I've forgotten their names and I don't even know if they exist anymore. But I'm sure basic decent cotton blouses or simple cotton dresses are available from a chinese brand.I just thought of a term to call what IW and VM are doing now (new designs) and I would like to call it the “Ojou-sama” aesthetic. Ojousama is a formal Japanese word meaning "young lady", and it is typically used when referring to wealthy, high-class (and often haughty) female characters in japanese fictional media.Outfits like >>10930249 and >>10930248 read as very "prim and proper" to me.Most lolita designs have some influence/inspiration from historical fashion, but you can go a lot of directions with it. I liked what VM used to design, which was often quite obviously taking inspiration from historical fashion, but it still blended the elegance with cuteness and/or a bit of edgy-ness imo. Newer VM designs are sometimes very weird, some of them were very vintage boudoir inspired (and no longer lolita to me), some of it looked like a vintage prom dress (and not lolita to me), and some looks a lot like an nice older design but has elements on the recent design that ruins it.IW's stuff used to be really cute and elaborate (lots of lace, pin tucks, etc) and mostly used cotton afaik. Totally different from what they're doing now, which looks like it appeals to people who want to go around town looking like a rich high class lady from a fictional historical setting. A lot of it looks like it's teetering on the boundaries of lolita fashion, some has gone beyond.
>>10930938I'm the first AYRT — I dunno, it's possible there are brands on taobao that are good and high quality but even as someone who spent a lot of time on taobao in my babylita days (which wasn't so long ago that taobao has drastically changed) trying desperately to find something good, it all just seemed flooded with weirdly designed nightmare dresses. I really don't get the aesthetic sensibilities of most taobao lolita brands, I don't get what they're going for. Sometimes I'm afraid I have major burando goggles when it comes to the way I compare classic brands like VM and MM to taobao, but then I look at some new taobao dresses uploaded to Lolibrary and see nothing that really matches the simple but sophisticated aesthetics of original VM and MM (there are exceptions in their showier pieces, of course). Am I biased? Sure, I'm super picky about my dresses to begin with, and my opinions are undeniably influenced by my personal taste for lolita, which skews on the minimal side. But I know I'm not the only person who feels this way. It's just weird all around to me that a certain aesthetic within a substyle (that's the best way I can define it) has completely washed out the iconic roots of the substyle. Sorry, I've started to ramble.
>>10930997Ramble on, I enjoy reading it. I've had a similar experience. I spent a lot of time checking chinese lolita updates and the times I found something decent (I wouldn't call it high quality) were very rare and it wasn't ever anything that suited my taste. I also think it's unlikely you have brand goggles on. I have absolutely no brand loyalty, so if I like something I'll buy it regardless where it's from. And I want to like chinese brands (because of the price, which is generally lower than jpn brand), they just haven't shown me anything that I like enough to buy.Chinese brands have introduced some aesthetics into the fashion that I don't understand either. I group those things/elements under what I think of as the taobao aesthetic. Some chinese lolitas say they think it's better than jpn lolita. Some westerners prefer the taobao aesthetic. I can only assume that's what they were first exposed to and what drew them into the fashion. I know it's different strokes for different folks and you can't argue about taste, but it's really hard not to judge (in the privacy of my mind mostly) when it's so unlike the lolita I love and what drew me in, and it looks so much more costumey and lower quality than the specific items I love. I hate that the taobao aesthetic was in most of what I saw when I googled lolita/lolita fashion (don't quite remember the exact search terms).I went on a long hiatus and one of the first things I saw when I returned was that "my fair lady" dress. I just thought it wasn't lolita anymore. I wouldn't call it objectively ugly though, and it's obviously better quality and design than some of what's out there. It just doesn't read as lolita to me.
>>10930997no, i agree with you
>>10930809Most pinterest boards are run by 13 year olds who don't even wear lolita what do you expect? Why the fuck are you looking on there instead of literally anywhere else?
>>10931029Because I find the pinning and organization system works well for me and my collection of saved coord pics, so naturally I want to see what else I'd be able to find without having to upload it myself. I understand now that it's mostly a lost cause without some major rabbit-hole searching kek especially after pinterest had that episode where they purged a bunch of lolita boards because they thought it was inappropriate content.
>checks in on my local comm fb group for the first time in months>dead as always>one of the few upcoming events is a "tasting party" at someone's house for a fucking MLM>?????????
>>10931072>one of the few upcoming events is a "tasting party" at someone's house for a fucking MLMYou best stay away from that one.
>>10930809> It's also a stupid idea, because it alienates their original customer baseThe brand is literally called *Victorian* maiden retard. Classic lolita has always been inspired towards late victorian styles more than any other substyle, the coords here wouldn’t even be historically accurate so I don’t know what your on about. Obviously you need better sources then Pinterest if you can’t see that these coords are the definition of classic lolita.
>>10931093nayrt, regarding "alienating their original customer base" she's talking about both VM and IW.IW's aesthetic changed a lot since the 2000s, so if you love the mix of elegance and cuteness old IW had it's likely you don't love current IW designs since they're far less cute and way more mature. The problem isn't that these brands take inspiration from historical fashion, they have always done that, it's what they decided to do with it that has changed. VM has changed a bit less than IW did, but it's still quite noticeable. I understand some brands want to cater to a more mature audience than they did before, but the lovers of the old style won't necessarily grow (that their taste naturally changes into a more mature one as they age, without it being a conscious thing) with those aesthetic changes. That's what anon is talking about alienating the original customer base. I'm not saying these brands absolutely should go back to the old aesthetics, especially if it doesn't make financial sense for them to do so. We're just noticing how big of a difference it is, old and new IW is like two different brands aesthetically.
>>10930239She looks so well behaved and mindful of her motions. Why can't western women be like this.
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>>10931029The fact is there aren't really good sources for new lolitas in the west any more. Most Western comms and "influencers" are barely lolita. search for lolita images on any major search engine and you'll get nothing but taobao crap. Join a lolita comm and you will get a bunch of people who barely wear lolita and know nothing about it. Go to a western "lolita" brand or shop and you will find a bunch of hideous and unrelated pride crap and western goth. There aren't really good Western sources for lolita anymore.
>>10931093There are a lot of lolitas who are physically too short for these new releases. I wish they'd at least offer the short and long length options again.
>>10931111Nayrt, but I've been struggling to find good online guides to refer newbies to. Before taobao really took off there were multiple good guides that would pop up in the search results if you googled "how to wear lolita". I know about Raine Dragon's guide, but that's not really the type of guide I was looking for. I miss the short (one page), condensed, cutely illustrated guides. The "anatomy of a lolita outfit " pages (there are 2 separate ones) don't offer any further explanation about the fashion itself, it just gives a visual guideline of the components in an outfit. They're good at what they do, but I miss the guides that had some background info on the fashion. If anyone has found one, please share the link so I can save it for when the next beginner comes along wanting to be spoonfed in the comment section of a youtube video or someone's social media content. It's just annoying to explain everything, even moreso because there might be a very restrictive character limit.I just want to be able to share a link or recommend they check out (insert name of guide here).
>>10931093Never once did I say that the dresses aren't lolita, I was only suggesting that they were adapting their designs to appeal to a broader audience of people interested in historical fashion that probably wouldn't have gone for the very specific aesthetic that these brands had in the past, thus alienating many of the people who had fallen in love with what the brands represented before. The other anon replying pointed out exactly what I was thinking, IW used to be much cutesier. Along with that, VM was always only loosely inspired and not leaning so hard into historical inspiration as they seem to be now with some of their longer and in some cases much plainer pieces. You're picking a fight over nothing.
>>10931110It isn't though. Western men have become effeminate and western women have become bruttish.
I didn't see the dumb jfashion thread and I have a question regarding styling hair for lolita.I have curly hair and I can't seem to find a guide or even a decent example on how to style my hair for a coord. I got a haircut recently, finally getting bangs, but due to the curls themselves the bangs don't quite look as good/cover my forehead; any advice you can give me? Wigs aside, of course.Picrel is the closest I could find to what my hair looks like, with the same issue regarding bangs. It's a decent normie haircut, at least.
>>10931190With straight hair if the bangs don't cover the forehead enough, and more coverage is desired, they just section more hair into the bangs. That would work for curly hair too. Additionally you might want to try splitting the bang curls into 2 as long as you can maintain curl definition and combat frizz.I also remember there being a few lolita ads in the GLB and online that styled hair/wig into curly bangs. You might want to hunt those down and keep them as reference. That way you will know what it will generally look like with lolita hair accessories.There used to be quite a few curly haired lolitas who would straighten their bangs, and that looked acceptable to most people for the standards of the time because those were styles also seen in popular wigs and in brand photoshoots. Now people generally think it looks bad. But you could try it out with some clip in bangs if you think you might like it.
>>10931168this is a recurring complaint in every decade since humans started writing things down. Only idiots react to this fact by saying "but it's really true this time, just look around you".
>>10931205I mean it is different this time because humans are demonstrably fatter than ever before in history. Keep coping though, clearly this hits close to home.
>>10931219The funny thing is that people who complain about "people these days" look back at some time before and think it was so much better because "men were men and women were women", "people used to dress nicer", "people used to be more polite" etc, not realizing that the older generation of the era they are idealizing also thought the exact same thing about their society. Everyone is constantly looking back to some fictional past where things were just better.You don't have an original thought in your brain.Also this is the lolita thread, post about lolita or gtfo.
>>10931168Why would a nice Japanese woman want a self admitted low test, weak man like you? Picking fights with women is effeminate behavior.
>>10931232You can say whatever you want, it won't make you lose weight or make you and your boyfriend look less like a meme. Lmao.
>>10931232Does this one hit home too?
>>10931204>>>10931190>I have curly hair too + bangs, mine is about 3b (but curls to 3c depending on the phases of the moon and other factors i dont understand). >When I first cut my bangs they were perfect length, and then I washed them and they curled too tight and were super short. It's honestly a learning process figuring out what length is best to cut when dry and wet, but the best tip i can give you is to let them grow out a little more, and only trim when dry. If they're too short, I used hairclips at the roots to sort of 'weigh' them down to add a little extra length. If the length is nice but coverage is lacking, then what >>10931204 said is the best way to work with it- sectioning off more. I researched for a while for my hairdresser, if you want to start over and let them fully grow out and recut them, look for either a stylist in an area that predominantly has curlier hair (black, brown, etc) or a stylist who is deva cut certified and request bangs only.
>>10931246gdi wtf is this formatting. my bad
>>10931204>There used to be quite a few curly haired lolitas who would straighten their bangs, and that looked acceptable to most people for the standards of the time because those were styles also seen in popular wigs and in brand photoshoots. Now people generally think it looks bad.Never heard anyone say this or think this. Curly hair and straight bangs is still a lolita standard hairstyle. No idea why you are thinking it looks bad.
>>10931248I don't think it looks bad and I also didn't say I think it looks bad. I had that style when it was common and I still don't hate it. I've seen more than a few lolitas say this looks weird and they don't understand why it was ever considered cute. It's also far less common than it used to be. I just double checked and none of the lolitas I follow on IG have curly hair with straight bangs, including the lolitas that have naturally very tightly curled hair. At most there are some lolitas in my IG feed that have styled their hair into waves from halfway down to the ends. Just to be clear I'm talking about the hair style with natural curly hair (not wavy) or a wig with similar curl pattern, just loosely hanging down with completely straight bangs. Not in an updo, braids or a pony tail.Not the sausage curl wigs and clip ins, or the twin tail clip in wigs with curled ends, or fake curly clip in hair buns.
Lace-Up Doll Puff Sleeve OP confirmed! Comes in 2 lengths: 100 cm and 110 cm>https://www.victorianmaiden.com/collections/lace-up-doll-dress
>>10931257Guess it depends on who you follow and the style you follow. Still see it all the time. Personally still think it's one of the best and easiest hairstyles to do for sweet lolita.
Checked CoF for the first time in years. What the fuck happened to that group?
>>10932795finally a normal length dress.
>>10932796I'm not saying your experience isn't correct. Most of the curly styles I see look man made (with heat tools or rollers/heatless method, perfect even curl, no frizz). I've also noticed a lot of disapproval about natural (or natural looking) curls with straight bangs. I've seen people saying it looks bushy, unkempt, "she needs to do something about that hair". I don't think a lot of people realize that natural curls will rarely look perfect, frizz free and very defined even if you take great care of it.
>>10932808thanks for the image doofus. And no, you should not have gone to COF. I've given up on it years ago.
>>10932808Newbie here, what is CoF?
>>10932911Metal band from the 90s
>>10931139Late reply but I have never seen a historical costumer buy from lolita fashion stores for main pieces, it just isn’t a thing because Victorian fashion just looks so different. If anything the new vm and iw releases look more similar to Edwardian fashions in my opinion, but lolita is inspired by many different styles in history so pointing to a specific style is a losing battle.I don’t wear classic lolita myself but if you even have a passing interest with historical costuming you can immediately tell the difference between classic lolita and victorian dresses, it’s just so different it’s weird you even made a connection.
>>10932911shut up
>>10932918Nayrt, but there is a group of people that are both interested in lolita fashion and historical fashion who would be interested in buying "the fashions that lean more towards historical fashion (mix mash of eras) inspired than they lean to the lolita side".I can totally see how some classic lolitas think what IW is doing now is too far divorced from their idea of lolita fashion. There is no arguing about taste and there are always brands who people think are stretching which looks can be included under the lolita fashion umbrella. I don't think anyone is saying the IW pieces are historically accurate or that historical costumers would buy these to use as historical costumes.
>>10932932I personally think IW and VM have veered away from lolita because they no longer carry the right silhouette-- 110cm+ length dresses often don't have enough skirt body for a full petticoat, so they don't even read as lolita on tall girls. It feels more like a historical-inspired or lolita-inspired casual fashion, and reminds me of the otona-kawaii trend of the 2010s that focused on toned-down items from liz lisa and adjacent brands. It's not ugly, but it's not lolita, and classics are rightfully worried about it since there aren't many classic-focused brands to begin with, and now the only two that are consistently releasing items are by and large releasing this other style (at least VM occasionally releases a short length, though) with very few items that are actually suitable for lolita.
>>10932938Ayrt, I don't think it's the length that is the problem because I think of some really old designs that are much longer than knee length but still fit within the lolita aesthetic.I think it's just the overal aesthetic of new VM and new IW designs that's not reading as fully lolita to me. I'm not a classic lolita but I've always liked old IW and old VM. And I can see how classic lolitas might not enjoy the new designs. I hope both brands go back to their former glory, they might not fully realise how well a rerelease would sell. Although.. IW did do that commemoration release of one of their old designs and afaik that did quite well.What other good options do classics have these days? The 2nd hand market for old VM, IW and MM designs is overpriced afaik. Are there any other brands that hit the same notes? (Please don't say JetJ, lol).If I was a classic I would buy anything that appealed to me that I could find second hand and any rereleases I liked the look of, and fill up the huge gap in my heart (because of item scarcity and high price) by custom making very high quality personal replicas or getting them made for me. With the tailored looks it will look better if you custom size them to your body anyway, no more boob curve or shoulder width issues. If you know how to sew and work with patterns the biggest hurdle is getting the right materials, and that might not be so difficult for classic.
>>10932941>they might not fully realise how well a rerelease would sell.victorian maiden is literally doing a re-release right now of lace-up doll. which they've already re-released several times--the original is from 2009. vm also released catherine corduroy, which is their corduroy op from 2001. obviously they are not focusing on re-releases, and i don't think any brand should because that is just boring, but i agree i would be great if they could design items more in line with the older styles.additionally, mm has slowly been re-releasing items this year as well, including their lace cuffs and marine rose jsk. i hope we see a resurgence in mm, but that's just wishful thinking on my end maybe.>What other good options do classics have these days?millefleurs, which goes for insanely cheap and has some similar cuts to mm. also old iw is not even that expensive, ime, i feel they just get snatched up fast.
I think a lot of western lolitas have a hard time understanding classic lolita has moved on in Japan. Japanese lolita like the newer styles, and newer brands like hoshibako works that westerners don't seem to realize exist.
>>10932960I agree with you, if no one were buying it in Japan and especially China, the brands wouldn’t be making it. But Hoshibako Works, seriously? It’s literal Taobao.
>>10932960we all know it exists, it just sucks
>>10932965We can all agree it's not really on par with Japanese brands but let's tone the racism and not call things taobao.
>>10932956ayrt, I know that VM does rereleases of specific items and I did see the latest rerelease. I don't get to complain since I don't wear classic, but most of the rereleases VM has done in the past few years that I have seen have been the same stuff (classical doll, rococo bouquet, their signature bonnet, lady mallory op, etc). As for IW I am only aware of one rerelease in the last 15 years but I haven't exactly gone through the archive (nor have I checked out the archive for VM so I could be way off). I just have this feeling some brands might not realize how many people want a rerelease of specific items.I just looked at lolibrary entries for VM dresses from 2024 and 2023 and I'm surprised there are more than a few dresses without full shirring I would fit. And I have honkers, am probably a bit too tall for VM and can stand to lose 5 pounds. Is this a fairly new development where they're expanding the size range of their dresses or just making the minimum and max measurements bigger? I was only aware of the plus sized release (it was classical doll iirc).>also old iw is not even that expensive,I know you can find IW pieces second hand for very affordable prices, but some sought after stuff goes for upwards of 50000 yen.>>10932960I understand there is a market for the new designs of VM and IW. However, Hoshibako Works? I wouldn't call them classic, but I would call them "overhyped low quality over priced in japan".
>>10932975nayrt, but this is a joke, right? they literally have a taobao shop. it is, in fact, literal taobao, in the purest sense of the word.
>>10932982https://www.rainedragon.com/how-the-western-lolita-community-is-failing-chinese-brands/
>>10932983Brands that are on etsy are definitely etsy brands to me
>>10932983it's so delusional to me the community expects me to treat a 400$ dress on the same caliber as a 100$ dress. it's not racist or whatever to acknowledge they have a clear difference in manufacturing, material and general quality. lolita is the only hobby I've been in someone will get mad at you for pointing out a brand is objectively better than the other because they own things by the worse brand.
>>10932965>>10932974Ok? I'm just saying this is one of the brands Japanese classic lolitas are wearing. It's not 2010 anymore, there are classic brands besides iw, vm and mm. Funny that it's good enough for Japanese lolitas but not westerners wearing decades old mm that's had twenty owners without being washed once.
>>10932995question do you own anything by hoshibako works or are you just pulling shit out of your ass? also looking at their online catalogue their style is nothing like 2010s classical like iw/vm/mm and very reminescent of taobao lolita. curiously most of their things catalogue on lolibrary are what makes it look like those brands and not like most of the things they're selling currently.
>>10932996 I'm literally just saying what lolitas in japan wear, not giving a fucking endorsement.
>>10932980>Is this a fairly new development where they're expanding the size range of their dresses or just making the minimum and max measurements bigger?Yes. VM's standard measurements used to be around 87 - 90 cm bust, 69 - 72 cm waist. I think they've kept their nude shoulder size of 37 cm.
>>10932995nayrt, Hoshibako works is not a classic brand. They sell a variety of styles. They also charge more for the same products in japan compared to china. Their quality is not as good as most (if not all) japanese classic brands. There have also always been japanese classic brands other than IW, VM and MM as long as brands focusing on classic have been a thing. What japanese lolitas buy is not any indication of quality. A japanese person who is a beginner lolita is not necessarily any more knowledgeable about lolita and what things cost than western beginners. There is no special knowledge for beginners only available in japan for japanese people. I also see japanese people on mercari and fril buying ridiculously overpriced listings of items still available from the original store for way less, so please don't idealize japanese lolitas. Yes, japan is the country of origin for lolita fashion but that does not make every japanese lolita an authority on lolita fashion or a role model. Just because some japanese lolitas are perfectly content with hoshibako works quality does not mean you have to do the same. Or do you admit to being the sort of person who would think something is good just because other people think it's good?>>10932995>decades old mm that's had twenty owners without being washed once.I know you exaggerate to make a point but it's a ridiculous point therefore so is the exaggeration.
>>10933007ayrt, I saw all kinds of shoulder measurements listed for VM tops and dresses. The last dress I remember seeing the shoulder measurement of said 38cm. I am assuming that's measured from the end of the shoulder seam to the end of the other shoulder seam on the garment.
>>10933009Yes, the shoulders are designed with a nude 37 cm in mind. This means that the shoulders can be wider or smaller depending on how the sleeves are supposed to sit and how the garment is constructed, but they should fit someone with a 37 cm shoulder width. VM used to put that disclosure on most of their products, but I think they've stopped doing it in recent years. This detail has been captured in some Lolibrary listings.https://lolibrary.org/items/victorian-maiden-antique-doll-op-2021For Antique Doll OP (2021), the listed shoulder measurement is 34 cm, but under additional notes, it's mentioned that the dress is made for a nude shoulder width of 37 cm.
>>10932941AYRT: i realise longer length dresses existed in the past, but they had the skirt volume to balance the length. these dresses don't.
>>10932995Who the hell isn't washing their MM?
>>10933013ayrt and thanks, I really didn't know this. I knew that shoulder width was what was measured on the garment, I always wondered why it varied so much.I don't even know my "nude shoulder" measurement, only what my blouses typically have (around 38cm). When I do a mockup I also don't measure my actual nude shoulder, I just mark where I want the shoulder seam to end and then measure the distance between the two marks. With set in sleeves I always use the same place on my body where I want it to end. Btssb has a blouse with a shoulder width of 41cm, I assume now that's not the nude shoulder they designed it for and that it's an aesthetic choice.
>>10932995>I'm just saying this is one of the brands Japanese classic lolitas are wearing.no, you said western lolitas don't seem to realize it exists, and i said we do, we just don't like it. i actually own a hoshibako works bonnet and i intended to wear with an mm op. and while the bonnet LOOKS pretty, the construction of the brim isn't great, and the placement of the alligator clips makes it such that there is no way to remove it without it tangling in my hair.>Funny that it's good enough for Japanese lolitas but not westerners wearing decades old mm that's had twenty owners without being washed once.you're funny. mm definitely still has a cult following in japan. but if you're saying they've moved on, i hope you're right so that means more for me!
>>10932918>>10932932I'm involved in both classical lolita and historical costuming and I really don't like the newer iw and vm releases. I like classic lolita for its toned down daily wearable vibe but I find the new releases to be too plain for me and vm keeps reusing the same few designs for most of their dresses that I just don't like. I hope they rerelease some 08-12 designs
>>10933008>don't idealize japanese lolitas. Yes, japan is the country of origin for lolita fashion but that does not make every japanese lolita an authority on lolita fashion or a role model.Japanese classic lolitas look 10x better than western lolitas though
Just look at all the poorly dressed Japanese lolitas wearing hoshibako works. If only they knew a better quality existed. https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/%E6%98%9F%E7%AE%B1works/
If only they knew how to wear QUALITY real classic lolita like the western comm, they might not look so bad. Poor dears.
Just look at all this poor quality hoshibako compared to the high quality western classic looks. They look so awful. What a shame.
Can somebody please tell this girl hoshibako works isn't classic? She's mistakenly tagging this poor quality coord as classic lolita. A LOT of prominent Japanese classic lolitas do. Somebody should warn them!!
>>10933044you're so retarded, i'm sorry. we all know that the western comm doesn't tag properly and 90% of them wouldn't know classic lolita even if it bit them in the ass. the girls wearing real classic in this collage actually look totally fine, btw.>>10933045are you perhaps mistaking "quality" for better quality photos? most of this doesn't even read as classic, either. sweet with florals =/= classic. didn't realize that if you tag something as classic that makes it TRUE.....
>>10933047looks like some shit from metamorphose's "classic" tab.
>>10933050So now meta doesn't know what classic lolita is either?
>>10933049I follow a ton of Japanese classic lolitas and I've seen nearly all of them wear hoshibako, but go off.
Can one of her western betters set this poor girl straight? Maybe she doesn't know quality when she sees it.
>>10933051they don't! hope that helps
>>10933051meta has never been classic and will never be classic and their classic tab is why people like you have no idea what classic looks like
>>10933045>>10933053These look so bad. The fabric looks awful, and the designs are mediocre sweet at best and just tacky costumes at worst.
People that don't know what classic lolita is:-Japanese lolitas-Japanese brands-Japanese influencers-Japanese resell sitesPeople that DO know what classic lolita is:-/cgl/ randos -Japanese brands 15 years ago (but not anymore)Got it, thanks!
>>10933041Even if that's true that still doesn't disprove what I said.
>>10933043They probably don't care about the difference in quality. There are western lolitas who don't care much either. But I'm not going to be content with something just because someone else is.
>>10933067A brand that sells a variety of styles including classic is not a classic brand. For a brand to be a classic brand it has to be the main style they sell.Meta has always been a brand selling a variety of styles and they don't have a problem with mixing styles so that a piece is somewhere in between two sub styles. Their approach to design choice is different from a brand who focuses on one sub style. Vm and IW are still classic brands, regardless of whether people like what they have been designing recently. Tagging on social media, image sharing sites and 2nd hand resale sites is not something you should rely on to decide which sub style something is. I regularly see Japanese listings claim that a product is of interest to people wearing moitie when the item they're selling is sugary sweet AP. They're just trying to gather the largest audience they can, and that means using lolita tags that don't apply to the product they're selling. Same with social media tags. A lot of people use irrelevant tags in order to reach as many lolita eyeballs as possible. The downside of this misuse of tags is that people searching a particular tag get lots of irrelevant results.Japanese influencers who mainly wear classic who have a brand sponsorship does not mean the brand is classic or that these influencers love every item they're urged to promote.
>>10933044Less than half of these images is classic. Try to learn the difference between sub styles before you start to discuss quality.>>10933045A lot of what's pictured here isn't classic either. You searched the hoshibako works tag so not only seeing classic lolita is a given.
>>10933072Thanks but I'm going to go by what I see in Japanese media and the Japanese lolita community not what fat ugly westerner thinks
>>10933079most western classic lolitas aren't even fat (do you even hang around classic lolitas?) but okay. like i said before, the classic tags on instagram are always cluttered with nonsense to gain a broader reach, and a lot of classic lolitas who don't care about being instagram famous aren't even using hashtags and are just posting their coordinates for themselves and their friends.i'm really curious how long you've been in the fashion and which substyles you wear.
>>10933079ok weeb
>>10933079Japanese lolitas are stupid about Chinese stuff because they dont know how to use taobao and get upcharged. They are 15 years behind us on this. Also just how we had panny lolitas so did they, a lot of new people are just as ignorant there as here in terms of quality and honestly Shein being popular in Harajuku now only makes this worse. That and jirari because that style is all garbage quality sadly. So if you do want to just follow Japanese lolitas at least make sure you arent following the itas who only wear taobao. The classic lolitas I follow are not wearing HB at all because they know better.Hoshibako is just a Chinese brand that really saw a market and took advantage of that, moved to Japan and open up shop and marked up their shit like 200%. They now similarly price their shit like baby but lack any real quality. So they were fine when it was 100$ but now its 400$ for no reason. Dont scam yourself
>>10933087just give up, the person you're responding to doesn't have more than 2 brain cells to rub together. If they want to wear low quality then let them.
Atelier Pierrot announced as the guest for Great Lace, anyone else going?
>>10933107Not worth being in chicago. Ursa Major is getting a second year, though.
>>10933107It's only the next state over so I'll be going.
does this kind of dress cutting look bad on taller women? i'm 164cm/89 bust
>>10933079nooooo it would be so horrible if you were to only buy hoshibako works and exit the market for old VM and IW (if you were in it in the first place) what ever will the rest of us do with all these clothes
>>10933114Depends on how you style it. You can either exaggerate your height (High heels, ankle length socks, etc.) or you can be more modest and choose “traditional” lolita items (Tea party shoes, otks, kc). Regardless of what you choose it can always look flattering if you coord it well. I think it also depends on what you have in your closet currently, which is something I always question when people on this thread ask similar questions. Generally high empire waists like the one you pictured can look ill fitting even on average heights because it’s commonly associated with small children’s clothes, and the cut can even squish your lungs which is never good. In my opinion I would rather exaggerate the physical features I already have then try to minimize them, your already choosing an unusual lolita cut so styling it casually would be difficult.Note: if you have big boobs don’t wear this dress at all.
>>10933114connie is your height (5'4) so you can judge for yourself. without an underskirt it's too short for me personally but i'm also just not a fan of empire waist + short dress length on anyone.
>>10933119Nayrt, tea party shoes wouldn't go with this dress imo because they're too different when it comes to aesthetics. Sometimes you can use items of different sub styles together, but sweet shoes without heels (which tea party shoes are a version of) with this dress is something I think won't look good. I wouldn't wear ankle length socks with this dress either. The balance of where bare skin is located in the coord would be off. The dress covers a lot of skin, so with ankle length socks there would be this large gap in coverage between the dress and shoes and no where else.Most lolita clothes look best on people of average height for Japanese standards since that is what they use as a reference when making the pattern. Significantly shorter lolitas can look like they are drowning in the clothes, significantly taller lolitas would look like they've outgrown their clothes. But 164 is just a little taller, not a lot taller. I think this dress would look fine on lolitas who are 164cm. That is around my height, and if anon is leggy like I am I recommend leaning into that heavily with high heels and OTKs. Platform heels would look best. As for leg wear OTKs would look great with it. Pattern tights that match aesthetically would be good too (there are some dark/edgy/gothic ones) as well as lace tights. I would only choose UTKs if there are bloomers peeking out to balance the gap. If anon is not on the upper end of the size range for this dress she'll probably be perfectly comfortable, so no squished lungs. That isn't a length issue anyway. But I agree with your suggestion not to try and style this in a casual way. The dress itself is not casual at all. Also agree with the suggestion not to buy this if you have big boobs. Most lolita stuff isn't big boob friendly anyway, this already has a raised waist and the bodice is going to be even shorter on big boobs.
>>10933141Congratulations you just stated exactly what anon said but worded it even longer. Hate comments like this.
/cgl/ in a nutshell
>>10933183no, dummy, >>10933119 made several suggestions and claims I don't think are good advice. Your reading comprehension is sorely lacking.
>>10933185Go and buy hoshibako works, there will be more good brand left for us.
>>10933108Who was Ursa Major's brand guest last year? I can't find any info.
>>10933214I don't think they had one besides some small indie brands but they hosted the first US GLM pop up and seem to be planning to host again this year. Haenuli too. GLM was the real draw last year.
>>10933188>>10933185>>10933116>>10933087 is hoshibako works really that bad? I've been considering buying a bonnet and hat from them for a while now, will I regret it?
>>10933237it's not the worst quality you can get. The biggest problem is they simply charge too much for what you're getting.For example if you buy through their japanese-english site they're charging equal or more for a dress than btssb and other japanese brands charge, whilst you're getting a quality that is worse than those japanese brands.Their listings also tend to look far better than what you get irl, but that's not unique to that brand since some other brands do that as well. They have a lot of costumey looking pieces. Not surprising since they do anime collaborations and there are lots of other chinese brands that have costumey looking pieces. There are one or two normal designs that I think are pretty cute, but I'm not buying them because of the price-quality ratio.It's getting more popular in japan, what >>10933087 said is 100% true.iirc they started off as a headwear store (hats, bonnets) so maybe those are decent. I recommend you ask around if anyone has the stuff you want what the quality is.
>>10933237It's fine. I have a blouse from them and it's better than most taobao but slightly worse than the major brands. It's perfectly fine. People here are just weird.
>>10933237They're not the worst, but the fabric quality is super cheap. APSF carries them and it's really jarring how bad the hoshibako items look next to the other brands. They aren't so bad if you order from their taobao shop for the original price, but if you pay Burando price for it and expect that standard of quality be ready to be disappointed.
I think western lolitas just have strange priorities they focus on to the exclusion of others and MUH QUALITY is one of them. Yes quality is important, but most major brands have slipped in quality these days. It's more important to have cohesive and good looking coords than to sperg out over quality, in my opinion.
>>10930289same. It is nice for taller lolitas or people who just prefer that length, so I think it's not a bad idea to have it as another option. But I am short and it's such an awkward, fugly length on me - I feel shut out from buying these releases. Spending money to hem multiple releases also seems to me, more time and effort than if I were a tall lolita and spent 1 or 2 times buying an underskirt that I can then rewear if I want more length. I know that these are all essentially small businesses so there's probably less margin financially to be able to offer so many different options, but I wish brands would offer a short length and long length option. Bring back 40-45 cm skirts please.
>>10933255It's not weird to not want to buy worse quality than jp brand for as much (or more) than jp brand prices. The costume like design of a lot of their non collab pieces is also generally not very well liked in the western comm. Some of their pieces also have the "chinese brand aesthetics" which people in the western comm always complain about regardless of which brand does it. The train march/railway tour OP is 27,296 yen (not yuan, I used xe to compare to jpn prices) in their taobao store and the Night Prayer blouse and is 21,961 yen (a blend of polyester, rayon and spandex) in their taobao store. Way too much even if you consider the brand to be the higher end of chinese brand quality. That's more than a btssb pinctuck blouse (cotton).I'm not going to judge you for buying something like the train march OP, it doesn't look costumey. But please don't get ripped off. If the price is similar or higher than jpn brand prices I guarantee you that you're going to be disappointed and wish you bought from jp brands with that money.
>>10933257I can still buy btssb's traditional designs for less than what hoshibako works charges for their dresses and blouses. Is the western comm wrong or are japanese lolitas just dumb when it comes to chinese stuff?Quality and the cohesion of your coord are both important. Lower quality is not going to look as good, feel as nice and last as long.
>>10933264What is this hand wringing over being "ripped off"? I buy stuff because I like it and it's cute, not because I expect to pass it to my grandkids Most people that buy western designer brands are the same, it hasn't been about "quality" in many many years.
>>10933267I'll add most Asian brands are the same, baby is the exception not the rule
>>10933265Hoshibako has a store in jp. they regularly do events. Japanese classic lolitas, many of whom wear old MM, can easily compare the quality, but they're still buying it and wearing it. How arrogant to assume that they are stupid or being tricked.
>>10933269they're still overpaying which is pretty dumb. Have you also considered some of them are okay with the quality because they don't care about quality? A chunk of the western comm doesn't either so this isn't exactly uncommon.
>>10933280It's like arguing people are "overpaying" for loveshackfancy or selkie. People are buying for the unique designs, not because it's amazing quality.
>>10933267So you don't care about comfort, quality to price ratio and it not falling apart in the wash in a year? Low quality isn't going to look good either irl if you only care about what it looks like.>>10933281quality has been quite important to most of the western comm since the beginning and still is. Used to be important to the jp comm too and still is to a lot of them. Stuff that was lower quality also used to reflect that in the price. Which other brand do you know that is as expensive or more expensive than jp brand whilst also being lower quality?You're not going to convince me I'm the odd one out for thinking quality is as important as aesthetics. That's a core value a lot of lolitas still hold.I'm fully aware of some people having lower standards for quality now because of the rise of chinese brands and people growing up with fast fashion as a norm.You can buy whatever you want at any price, but I'm going to judge.>>10933268jp brands are still generally better quality than chinese brands. You can't just lump all asian brands in with each other ffs.
>>10933288Mainly I'm trying to explain changing trends. A lot of lolitas here are stuck in the past. And you do you, it's fine to focus on quality, but I'm trying to explain that everyone else has moved on, and it's strange to claim people are being duped when they choose to buy something expensive that doesn't fit the strict /cgl/ quality standards. That's just how it is these days, everywhere in the fashion world, outside of like 3 lolita brands.
>>10933289I know things have changed but the new trends aren't that great imo. Quality for a lot of jp brands has gone down somewhat (still not as low as most chinese brands though, but those are cheaper too) and it's a recurring topic in the lolita comm in general.>everyone else has moved onSimply not true. Most of the lolitas I hang out with care about quality. The ones that don't are not paying jp brand prices for chinese brands.There's nothing wrong with being stuck in the past if the current norm is to be okay with fast fashion and pay 150$ for a lower quality polyester blouse.I didn't say anyone is getting scammed by hoshibako works. If people keep buying from them that's their choice. I'm judging that choice.>strict /cgl/ quality standardsdo you interact with the lolita community outside of CGL and r/lolita at all? These quality standards weren't invented by CGL, a large chunk of the western comm still holds these standards.>outside of like 3 lolita brands.and which brands would that be according to you?
>>10933296>do you interact with the lolita community>western commsEw, no
>>10933300Then you're out of touch and shouldn't be making sweeping statements about what everyone is doing or not. You're not in the japanese comm either because then you would know there are still plenty of japanese lolitas who do care about quality.
>>10933267some of us like to wear our $300 dresses more than 4 times before they fall apart.
>>10933326she doesn't want to get it. Probably got triggered because we don't like hoshibako works.
>>10933237Accessories still looked fine, so I think getting a bonnet is ok but i wouldnt pay a lot for it. If you can get it from their taobao shop its worth the pricing, if its only on the base shop its likely not anymore. Def look 2ndhand.>>10933269This convo about how we are "out of touch" because we don't like Hoshibako Works just reminds me of how many times someone has told me some taobao brand is "better" than brand when it was in fact not better than brand. We dont think To alice is good quality and it also has popularity in Japan, we dont think Shein is good quality and its all over alt kids in Japan. I don't think some random 17 year old Japanese person knows more about lolita and whats good quality because of their ethnicity, do you?
this discussion makes me long for a burando comm. nothing strict, it would be for people whose wardrobe is *mostly* brand main pieces, not counting things like shoes or buying a taobao dress once because you really love the print.it's not about being personally invested in other people' wardrobes -- it doesn't affect me or my bank account if your clothes are shiny, wrinkly, and partially disintegrated from the wash -- i simply don't feel that i can relate to those who mainly buy taobao or think it's 'just as good'. our values and the aesthetics we gravitate towards are going to be entirely different. it's like expecting goths to hang out with e-girls. and when it comes to physical meetups, pictures look more cohesive when you're all wearing brand even if everyone is in different colors and substyles.
>>10933333ugh, I kinda feel this a lot. with the newcomers to my local comm a lot of them are really into the cheap taobao. if it's not cheap looking, it tends to be costume-y and it's just not the aesthetic that I'm into. I also feel the same re: not being able to relate. I think what I really dislike about it though is it just all feels low effort or more of a casual interest. I think if you're only buying a bunch of cheap stuff, it just feels like are you even committed to lolita has a hobby? vs investing in brand pieces that you will prob try to keep in your closet for awhile and take care of. idk, I know they do enjoy the fashion, and I try to be friendly and cordial regardless. but for me it feels like they are less serious about it, and I want to keep company with people who are more serious.
Quality matters because lolita is meant to be comfortable while you wear it. I've wasted money on overpriced, subpar quality clothes and the only reason they aren't falling apart is because wearing them is a chore.I'm not paying $300 for an unlined, poorly-constructed, ugly thing made out of stiff fabric that's restrictive and doesn't breathe. People can wear whatever they want, but I don't understand paying out the nose just to look cheap.
>>10933343Ever since I've started getting more cotton pieces it's been hard to go back.
>>10933343This. I think the divide on quality is also a divide between lolitas who wear their dresses as clothes, and lolitas who wear them like a cosplay, usually only to cons or events. I don't see how you can settle for low quality like that unless you just don't actually wear your wardrobe regularly. That's fine I guess but I do wish there was some separate spaces for serious lolitas.
>>10933378>>10933343What /cgl/ considers to be quality is a high bar though. Nu AP and nu Moitie get accused of being poor quality on par with taobao, but it's perfectly wearable everyday.>>10933378Oh please. I buy nu moitie and wear it day to day regularly but I'm not a "serious lolita?" Hoshibako works sells comfortable cotton pieces, but because its slightly thinner than old MM, it's a "costume"? This is why I don't take the western community seriously. There used to be spaces for "serious lolitas," and they all fell apart because most of the "serious lolitas" end up being bitchy permaitas. You guys would know this if you were actually "serious lolitas" who had been in the fashion a long time.
>>10933382You seem to be taking it very personally that other lolitas don't like these brands. Do you work for them? It's embarrassing to shill this hard if you aren't even being paid. Is your vendetta against MM because you can't personally afford it?
>>10933393>Hoshibako works sells comfortable cotton pieces, but because its slightly thinner than old MMeven if it's only slightly thinner, the designs themselves are in no way comparable, and i just don't see how hoshibako works items could appeal to an MM fan at all, outside of some of the headwear
>>10933393I work for moitie. Mana personally pays me to post here and make nu moitie look good.
Is there a recommended brand that sells nice plain blouses at affordable prices, or goes for an okay price secondhand? I want to avoid Taobao or Bodyline, if possible.
>>10933399MAM has some decent plain designs and isn't badly priced new for the quality
>>10933399I wear a lot of classic and I love Innocent World for the price/quality/fit in secondhand (usually blouses run ~$50USD on wunderwelt)
>>10933333sadly a lot of lolitas who own mainly chinese brand are insufferable. They claim chinese brand is so much better and that jpn brands are elitist because of the prices and fatphobic when they don't offer multiple sizes incl plus size. It really is one step away from defending replicas because of mean brands "keeping stuff exclusive so that poor and plus sized people can't buy it".>it just all feels low effort or more of a casual interest.I don't think someone has to buy dresses every month or even every year if they have a workable wardrobe of decent quality. But there are so many itas who have multiple hobbies (many of which they spend more money on than on lolita) and spending money on lolita is something they do grudgingly, and what they buy is the low(est) quality crap they still think is too expensive. Their outfits look terrible and low effort as well. They're usually also really into the community aspect, want to attend local meets every chance they get and are very vocal online even though they don't even have the basics down yet. But they think they know stuff because they've been into lolita for 5+ years. Diagnosis perm ita.I really get the impression the label and the community is way more important to them than the fashion is. They usually have some nerd hobbies like warhammer, magic the gathering, board games, video game collecting, funko pops and cosplay they spend a lot of money on and don't complain about how expensive it is. I'm sure they like lolita, but they don't love it. That in itself is not a problem, everything else about them is.
>>10933351nayrt, for a lot of people in the western comm once they get cotton jpn brand they simply can't go back. Some people don't care though. A lot of people will also never buy cotton jpn brand.>>10933382it's not just on cgl though. I see complaints about the decrease of jpn brand quality in a lot of lolita spaces online. It's still better than a lot of stuff you can buy but people just don't like having to pay equal or more for something even slightly worse than what they're used to. I think it's a valid complaint. It has become more expensive to produce the same quality, but I think a lot of people are more willing to pay a bit more to get consistent quality than they are to accept decreased quality. If a brand releases a specific piece/print every 5 or more years, and you're waiting to get it when it's released, then it's going to be a disappointment if it's lower quality than what you're used to or were expecting.Lolitas who aren't serious about the fashion (they like it but don't really love it) don't buy anything that goes for the price nu-moitie goes for. Lolitas who are serious about the fashion and who complain about decreased jpn brand quality are not perma-itas unless they're brand itas but those are rare.If you don't like the western comm then why are you here?
>>10933438>If you don't like the western comm then why are you here?I've been a 4channer forever, so I can't leave. And as much crap as I talk, this is still the most tolerable place for the western comm right now.
>>10933437>They claim chinese brand is so much better and that jpn brands are elitistthey are unironically right, though.
>>10933444l hope you are joking.
>>10933326Okay but realistically speaking you shouldn’t be doing labor intensive activities in those dresses for them to “fall apart” the way you guys describe it. From a sewing point of view it’s very unusual for a garment like a lolita dress to simply break after a handful of uses, especially for the thick fabrics and small deliberate stitches they use. Lots of lolitas don’t even wear lolita on a weekly basis so I find this argument very unconvincing. Lolitas have basically become brainwashed to believe 400 dollars on a cotton dress made in the 2000s is a fair price. It’s only when you step out of the community do you realize how stupid that pricing is. I don’t even go on western websites for lolita anymore for this reason, why should I spend 300 dollars when I can just go on japanese sites and get it for no more then 80?
>>10933449nayrt, but things do get wear and tear from regular gentle use and washing. There have been a few favorite pieces I have worn to death basically. I don't just wear lolita to events or special occasions so I do want my stuff to last for a few years of regular wear and cleaning. It's a fact that lower quality clothing is just not going to last as long as higher quality clothing. Also no-one said you need to spend 300$ on a dress for it to be high quality. A lot of my dresses were bought from mercari/fril almost unused for 100$ or less.I'm convinced you're trolling to get a rise out of OG brand wearers because I refuse to believe you are this stupid.
>>10933449A lot of those old dresses are very faded and showing their age by this point. Many lolitas now are wearing faded, sagging clothes, and it really shows. No matter how quality something is, time takes its toll. Cotton fades.Newer stuff is easier to put in the washer without it fading or bleeding. It's also less stressful wearing something brand new than something 20 years old. I don't want to worry about spilling something on 20 year old cotton and staining it forever because it's harder to get some stains out of cotton. I wear lolita nearly daily when I'm feeling up to it, so the argument I don't know what i'm talking about or don't wear lolita outside of cons is really laughable.I don't agree with Chinese brands ever being better than Japanese brands but I don't like the argument that True Lolitas only wear 20 year old cotton dresses and that's the best way to do it. I used to believe this too, but then I actually started buying and wearing some of the newer "low quality" stuff and it really isn't as bad as people here make it out to be and actually fits a daily lolita lifestyle better in a lot of ways.
"Cheap" does not mean "inexpensive," and I think that's where newfriends get hung up.If you pay $300 for a garmet that uses poor quality fabric, has rushed or sloppy construction, was not looked over by someone who actually gives a damn about making good clothing, or is ill-fitting and ugly in general, the $300 price tag doesn't suddenly make it a good-quality garmet.It makes you a dingdong.If you pay $40 for a garmet that is all of the above, it still makes you a dingdong, but at least you're just ita and stupid instead of ita, stupid, and broke.
>>1093346299% of people think you're stupid for buying any $300 dress
>>10933454>True Lolitas only wear 20 year old cotton dressesno-one actually believes this, except for you apparently. >>10933462>It makes you a dingdong.lol, true.>>10933469that number is way off. Easily a quarter of my comm has spent that much on a single dress when it was something they really wanted.
>>10933449"Labor Intensive" I'm a daily lolita, and I mostly just run normal errands and everyday activities in my clothes. The things I notice on poor quality items are: buttons falling off due to being poorly sewn, thin fabrics like chiffon getting pulled threads or fraying at the seams (particularly arm seams, since there's a lot of movement there, but sometimes seams can undergo strain during washing), pilling happening quickly, lace falling apart due to being attached poorly, elastic coming unstitched from the fabric, and flimsy straps coming loose. These are all things that can happen to good quality dresses with age and wear, too, but poor quality dresses I'll notice it happening within a few wears, and it's really noticeable when I've worn an older dress twice as often and it's still in better condition. An item that's poorly made or made of cheap materials won't hold up to being washed regularly, even if you treat it like a delicate ballgown when you're wearing it. I don't expect my clothes to be bulletproof, and I don't mind repairing them regularly either. I do mind having to resew buttons on day 1 or finding damage on the fabric after 2-3 wear/washes or having to repair the same dress multiple times a year because the fabric keeps fraying or the seams keep coming undone. Maybe this isn't a priority if you wear lolita less than once a week, but if you treat your lolita as clothing, it's understandable to expect it to last longer than a fast fashion dress.
>>10933472>that number is way off. Easily a quarter of my comm has spent that much on a single dress when it was something they really wanted.Hmm, I wonder what percentage of the human population that a quarter of your comm makes up? You think it's more than 1%? Must be a big comm
>>10933479I thought you were talking about people into lolita fashion since what non lolitas think isn't relevant at all.
>>10933450Ayrt and I don’t have a problem with OG brand wearers. I’m not saying that those garments are bad quality/ugly compared to modern stuff and I didn’t make that clear in my original response, so I apologize. What I have a problem with is scalped prices, and lolitas that believe their tastes are superior because they only wear japanese brands (the common “Brand Whore” stereotype). What I’m doing is just putting these arguments through a realistic perspective, rather then using over exaggerations.
>>10933480nta but even most normies buy $300 dresses. lolita isn't that expensive by normie standards unless you're getting fast fashion.
>>10933519ayrt, I should have clarified that with OG brand wearers I mean people who mainly wear stuff from japanese brands started in the early 2000s or earlier. Not necessarily just people who wear old school. I wear a mix of garments made in the 2000s and newly made stuff in the same style. I vastly prefer to buy newly made stuff because the price isn't that bad and you get to be the first owner. I also don't see wearing actual old stuff as a status symbol, which is something that some old schoolers do.The second hand market for old school is frustrating imo, there are the scalpers you mentioned (I don't know anyone who is paying those prices, and if they are they're hiding it quite well), and basically everything is a gamble because something may look pristine in the listing but have a bunch of defects that you only find out about when you get the item.You can't really argue about taste, if someone prefers the style of (insert chinese brand here) to jpn brand aesthetics then so be it. What I do think is silly is claiming chinese brands are better quality than jpn brands because that's simply not the case with the vast majority of cn brands.I don't really have any brand loyalty, I get what I like the look of that meets my bar for quality as well. It doesn't matter where that comes from. There are people in my local comm who have a mixed wardrobe including chinese brands and japanese brands, and these people are very nice and most of them don't have terrible outfits. I do see a pattern where these people slowly increase the % of jpn brand items and decrease the % of chinese brand items in their closet the longer they are into lolita. Before anyone says anything, I don't think this is because of status. I think it's mix of quality, comfort and aesthetics. There's a good reason why I see so many of my fellow comm members buy a version of the btssb babydoll jsk. It's really comfortable, looks cute and isn't rare on the second hand market.
>>10933522I had a japanese acquaintance who told me he thinks lolita fashion is expensive. He spent roughly 1000$ on a burberry zipper hoodie. He didn't have it for very long when he washed it incorrectly and the zipper became curly because the fabric around it had shrunk due to the heat. He asked me if I could fix it, I told him I couldn't and he gave it to me. That was a really comfortable hoodie, sad about the zip though. It still looked pretty good after 5 years and then I accidentally left it on a bus.
>>10933526>I vastly prefer to buy newly made stuff because the price isn't that bad and you get to be the first owner.Same. I used to buy most stuff secondhand but I really prefer new items I'm the first owner of nowadays. Also if nobody buys new brand stuff, they will go out of business eventually.
>>10933519Honestly, I'm not a "brand whore" or anything. I have a favourite brand I prefer to shop from because they meet my quality standards and the cuts flatter my body, and other brands just aren't making that type of item anymore, but I also really enjoy japanese and eu indie brands. Some smaller indie brands are making unpopular styles and are still producing good quality items. It's just a bummer that big name brands aren't really bringing the good quality anymore, because the indie brands that do usually have very tiny product runs and releases can be a bloodbath (wirehead is a good example).
>>10933528Just use a seam ripper, remove the zipper, and replace it with a new one. Or iron and resew it down if the zipper itself isn't damaged.
>>10933529Ayrt, I only buy 2nd hand if the item hasn't been released in a long time, it seems to be in decent condition (literally who buys faded dresses???? Not talking about stuff that goes for 20$ and you can dye it evenly) and it's not a scalper price.This means I do buy more 2nd hand than new, but that's simply because brands aren't selling that item anymore or the rerelease had been changed too much and I now think it's ugly.
>>10933532Very kind of you to want to help, but I sadly do not have that hoodie anymore.If I ever encounter the wavy zipper problem again I'll remember your advice.
>>10933602AYRT Glad to help! I hope that time never comes regardless. May your secondhand hauls be pristine.
>>10933617lol, thank you. May your pillow always be as comfortable and cool as you want it to be.
How often do you guys damage your lolita stuff?I'm currently bummed because I purchased a dress for $300, wore it for maybe two hours, and managed to damage it to the point I'll have to sell it for half that. It doesn't help that it's made out of tissue paper, but I've had this problem for years I feel like u damage way too much lolita stuff. A lot of times its spilling something on it.I'm not really a clumsy or messy person so I don't really understand why i'm like this with lolita. Do any of you have this problem? I just act normally and do normal stuff in lolita. I don't think I have this problem with my normie clothes but maybe I just don't notice because they aren't as expensive and are usually black?
>>10933800What did you do? Sounds like you just don't know proper care and maintenance for your clothes. Just about any stain can be removed. Lolita is not made from sugar, it will not dissolve from soap and water.
>>10933801Grass stains? Orange drink stains? Tear in chiffon fabric?
>>10933801There was also a time I used TOO MUCH oxyclean and it made spots like bleach on a darker dress. So i clean stuff, but i manage to fuck even that up.
>>10933802Unironically just don't touch grass. Don't spill your drinks. Be more aware of your surroundings.
>>10933800I think with lolita clothing it's also more likely to happen because the surface is bigger. Easier to hit things with a wide petticoat or princess sleeves. The materials can also be more delicate than normie clothes like velveteen, lace, chiffon etc. If it's an expensive dress it also just hurts more than when it's a normal T-shirt. Nonetheless I have to admit I don't really have the problem you're describing as much. The worst was when I tried to get the smoke smell out of a dress but it slightly bled and no amount of oxyclean removed the color bleeding. It's rather light-grey x black now and it kind of sucks knowing I was the one who ruined it. Other than that sometimes buttons of 10+ year old clothes fell off and I had to resew them again but that's about it.If you regularly get tears and stains on your clothing it might be a mixture of bad luck and unawareness. What happened to your $300 dress that it got damaged so much?
>>10933800I've been wearing lolita for 15+ years and never had a stain I couldn't remove, although there were stains I initially didn't know how to remove. In my first year of wearing lolita the hem lace of my dress did get caught on something sharp on the side of a chair and it ripped as I stood up. That same year I also knocked something over with the hem of my dress. I've had pigment transfer from a black jsk onto a white blouse.My advice would be to be a bit more aware of your surroundings. Choose materials that are easy to clean and are not fragile. Don't use aggressive laundry products if you don't have to. Food and grass stains are usually best removed with an enzyme based laundry soap (comes in powder form, typically used as a presoak). Look up every bit of lolita laundry information you can.If you keep having accidents consider embracing aprons or darker colors.
>>10933802>Grass stainsGrass stains can be removed but firstly why the fuck are you sitting or playing in grass in expensive clothes?>orange drink stainsFood is some of the easiest stains to remove. First line of defense is your own spit. Spit has enzymes in it that break down food. Then wash. If it's really bad, you can try spot treatment methods.>tear in chiffonYou can mend the tear either with sewing or even tape.>>10933803This is why you thoroughly read the instructions and spot test before trying. I've used oxiclean on dozens of dresses to treat stains and it's never "bleached" anything even when making a paste and leaving it on a dress for 24+ hours
>>10933859>Food is some of the easiest stains to remove.It's fake orange drink with dye in it. I even took the item to the cleaners and they said they couldn't do anything. >stop touching grassI learned my lesson
>>10933901>It's fake orange drink with dye in ityou realize "drink" is a "food item" right>I even took the item to the cleaners and they said they couldn't do anything.Then your cleaner sucks and you shouldn't go to them anymore.I'm starting to think your clumsiness isn't the issue and you're just retarded
>>10933944I took it to two different professional cleaners. How am i supposed to know they were both stupid, and all the advice i found online that didn't work is also stupid? Why are people here so aggressive? I'm sorry I didn't ask you personally first I guess.
>>10933986Yep, this one's retarded.
>>10933944>you realize "drink" is a "food item" rightSynthetic dyes in fake food aren't food. Try getting red dye no. 40 out of cotton, cunt.
>>10933986I’m sorry about what happened to your dresses. There are a few fucknuts that come on cgl regularly to shitpost and insult actual lolitas. If you took it to professionals it sounds like a deeper issue that a cgl post can’t solve. My thoughts are that the dress print was already bleeding and that got mixed in with the drink stain. It sounds like your new or at least haven’t come here in a while, people like that are very common nowadays it seems.
>>10933999If you don't think it's food, then why are you eating it? Try not spilling all over yourself, you animal.
>>10934001>a few fucknuts that come on cgl regularly to shitpost and insult actual lolitasnayrt, Being a lolita just means you wear lolita fashion, it doesn't say anything about your personality. Trolling lolitas does not mean you're not a lolita. CGL has a higher proportion of bad apples because of the anonymity. If this is already obvious to you then please ignore it. Your post sounded like it could be coming from a "all lolitas are lovelies" pov.
>>10933999Red dye 40 can be washed out of clothes like any other dye or stain can. Just takes patience and effort and maybe multiple attempts of the same or different methods.
Has anyone bought clothes from heavenly garden? I want this JSK but I'm unsure of the quality.
>>10934016There was a demographics survey done a couple of years ago that showed the majority of users on CGL were male and majority of posters also didn’t wear Lolita but still posted in Lolita threads. It’s more likely than you’d think.
>>10934053I've noticed regular trolling by male users, I'm not bothered enough by it to consider it a nuisance although I do wish they would just stay away. There are plenty of lolitas who like to be horrible to each other as well though. Some of the trolls in the lolita threads have way too much specific information, that they only could have gotten by buying and wearing the fashion themselves, so it's most likely those trolls are lolitas. There are also some well known (not well liked) lolitas who regularly post here and try to pick fights, stir the pot/create drama and draw attention to themselves.
>>10934053I find that hard to believe. What kind of male would frequent lolita threads and why, you'd think the novelty would wear off in five minutes? Unless we're talking about trannies, but they would report themselves are women.
>>10934067You really underestimate how socially inept and obsessive the scrotes on 4chan can be
Whoever designs for Moitie should go to jail. The Divine Cross pics look absolutely awful, it's a crime against humanity. I'm so angry they made us wait this long and delivered that crap cut. The skirt looks like it was made out of one yard of fabric, why are they being so cheap?
>>10934494where can you see the announcement?
>>10934494Fabric is fine, its just not as full as it was originally. Looks like they took the cut of the other DC for the skirt.>>10934496salon post, but you can see it in the background of some pics now
>>10934497Have you seen the latest photo with it being worn? The silhouette is a literal rectangle, the skirt has no shape. Hopefully it's just a problem with the petti being used underneath it, but rn I feel disappointed.The placement of the print is also odd, it's too high when compared with older releases. I just wish they had made the skirt fuller.>>10934496Someone shared it on twitter this afternoon, but guess it's been hidden already.
>>10934501Its A line, they likely took the dress pattern from their recent jsk releases that are also A line, like the bicolor one.
Last couple days to do lottery with Baby SF for Elizabeth OP set, and Hawase Doll (includes lavender as an option) OP set. 15 year anniversary.
>>10934516Nta. The dress shown in the mannequin behind Mana during the live had a different shape altogether. It might be WunderWelt's usual terrible photos, but I'm not inclined to get it until Atelier Pierrot release their own pictures of the dress. >>10934501Imo the model is wearing a shorter petti in those pics. Zoom-in a bit and pay attention to the volume in the upper part of the skirt.
New baby Halloween print? Does anybody know anything?
>>10934494God, it looks like shit on the video posted to IG. I'm about fully given up on nu-Moitie, I at least hope the Atepie pics look better. I've been hoping for a rerelease of my Moitie DD (not an Divine Cross-tier popular print but one that has consistently been EXTREMELY expensive every time its popped up secondhand, and its gotten merch recently) but at this point I don't even know if I'd bother buying it if they did.
>>10934878>and its gotten merch recentlyIf you're talking about the brooch with the print on it, I have also been waiting for it to be rereleased... But I dunno, they're making dresses for giraffes now. The bodice of the DC is ridiculously long in those pics. Hoping that they will let us see the dresses in person before release at least. I'm not very intent on spending 45k on that garbage they are calling a dress
>>10930246Absolutely love the dress, but wth happened to the boots????
>>10934928Wow anon. I can’t believe they didn't just crop those out.
WunderWelt is so dumb. Was checking ww Fleur for new releases and the link for Divine Cross is accessible from their own store for everyone to see lmao it's so ugly that even with this mistake it didn't even sell out like their past big prints re-releases
>>10935140Post the link? For science
>>10935140I don't think it's a matter of being ugly or not as these pre-sales rarely sell out anyway. But I've seen at least two or three girls on tiktok sharing the "how to access divine cross' page" after people made it public on discord. >>10935141Just go there and open any jumper from any brand on Fleur. DC will be in the "recommended" carrousel right at the bottom.
>>10934877Baby SF already did lotto for these for the 15th anni ended on the 25th lol thought it was interesting but they only posted 2 colorways
>>10935144
>>10935143Yoo wtfShould I place an order with someone else's name or account, I dunno how they identify who is or isn't from their VIP club
>>10935141https://www.wunderwelt.jp/en/products/a-00645
It's says the material is shantung but the lighting is bad and makes it look more like a shitty costume satin. Doesn't look like it will fit a petti at all.
>>10935156it's barely gathered at all.
>>10935148You have to put your salon ID number in the comments
>>10935156Awful They could have just copied their past design. At this point, getting a shady company to replicate Moitié designs will certainly bear better results.
Is atelier boz worth it for a first co-rd for someone who is new to lolita/gothic lolita?or should go with moitie instead?
>>10935215Boz is good.They closed but they now run under the name Alpstolahttps://www.instagram.com/alpstola/
>>10935215Boz is always worth it.Unless you're short. Then you'd have to double check with people your height.
>>10935215Alpstola (new Boz name) is amazing. Some of the best current brand out there, and they send a gigantic box of snacks with your order. I just wish it wasn't all poly since I'm in a tropical region.Don't waste your money on nu-Moitie.
>>10935156It looks too narrow for a petti and that partial front gather at the waist adds 2 kg to the gut on everyone. I'm also not into that lace gap.
>>10935217>>10935227>>10935233thanks, i'm gonna save money from my job to get a boz dress and petti from elsewhere
Just bought three pairs of Cotton Candy Feet shoes in the matte pleather because I have huge American feet.Took an extra two months to ship over the quoted time, then once marked as shipped the package took an extra 2 weeks to be marked as received by the postal system.Wore one pair for the first time today. The middle part of the buckle broke off. I was able to push it back on but only backwards due to the angle. Not that big of a deal, but annoying when they are right out of the box. Need to find some needle nose pliers to fix it properly.Go out in them, the large bow on the front IMMEDIATLY flaked. It was at the fold corner so maybe I hit it on something but I was out walking in a mall for about 20 minutes before I noticed it. Not really rough terrain.The actual shoe construction feels fine, as solid as any other shoe I have purchased for lolita, better than some Taobao. Doesn't seem to have a obvious textured grip on the bottom, but I didn't have any problems with sliding around. Maybe if you are in wet conditions? I can't confirm that though.Anywho, I'm really disappointed. I wish I could just pay someone bigger bucks to make me actual leather lolita shoes, but I am a US size 10. I have forced my feet into brand ones and while better than these construction wise they are not built to last really. Maybe I should just give in and get shiny pleater. That seems more resilient even if I like the look a little less. Don't know if anyone was looking for an review of them but maybe it'll help. If anyone wants pictures I'll post them.
>>10935273CCF has been really mediocre lately. They're kind of losing their niche with taobao and korean brands doing custom cowhide leather.
>>10935273I had the same experience with ccf shipping time recently. It took them a month extra than their stated time of 8 weeks. They also uploaded the tracking a long time before shipping it out. I haven't actually worn the shoes yet. I wish us Bigfoot women had more options.
>>10935289it seems like every time in the last 2 years I have heard about someone buying shoes from ccf, something broke.
>>10935289Could you tell me the Korean brand that sell custom cowhide shoes?I bought from CCF ages ago and they were on the level of a normal Taobao brand. Don't know what happened.
>>10935336Lief does cowhide, and they regularly open custom orders. You can email them and ask about it.
>>10935365Thanks! Will definitely do that.
I HATE CUSTOMS DUTYI HATE CUSTOMS DUTYI HATE CUSTOMS DUTYImporting new from Japan will cost me nearly double the price. How do I cope with this
>>10936117Buy second hand locally. Make your own stuff (if you can do it well or are willing to learn and put in the time).Save money and then move to a place with lower customs duties. Or become rich and buy everything you want anyway regardless of the extra cost.You have to ask yourself how much you want this and what you're willing to do for it. A combination of buying second hand locally and getting a higher paying position sounds like a good solution.
>>10936120I am trying to do this, LM works but rarely has the type of stuff I like for a reasonable price. At this point lolita is my top motivation to graduate instead of becoming a NEET again. I don't want to wear p*nts and t-shi*ts for the rest of my life.
>>10936117Ask those around you how they find their way around the duties, or is everyone in this hobby rich where you live?
>>10936132Buy with a shopping service that allows you to declare the items and value. Don't forget to ask them to remove price tags and any piece of paper that mentions the price before packing and shipping to you.The people working at customs don't know how much these things cost, most likely they're going to think it's a costume or some goth stuff you bought on a fast fashion platform.Don't go overboard with it by claiming a dress cost you 5$. Pick a more reasonable price like 3999 yen.If you want to pretend something is second hand, or it is actually second hand, then pick round numbers (2500 yen).I've been doing this for years. Declaring a btssb dress cost 3500yen or something like that. A new brand bag no more than 5000yen. Parasol 1500yen, socks 999yen, blouse 3200 yen. It's only a problem if the package gets damaged or lost, because you will only get your declared value back and you might actually have to provide a receipt so you might get nothing in that case. The item's real value might also exceed the maximum insured value.Ask your local lolitas how they deal with it.If ordering from taobao with a ss you can pay VAT in advance, this allows you to avoid any administrative costs the customs office will charge you if they have to clear the paperwork. You can also choose what the declared price is as well. Just be warned that customs offices are automatically a lot more suspicious of Chinese packages than those sent from Japan, so if your taobao items are cheap then don't lower the declared value.
>>10936146Same anon: customs has opened and inspected my Chinese parcels twice in the last few years. Never with Japanese parcels.
>>10936120> Buy second hand locallyAnon this is the *japanese* fashion thread. Unless you live in a big city (or you wear Decora or Gyaru) the chances of you finding loliable items in the wild is highly unlikely, for lolita I would avoid it entirely. Although it has happened to me once before, I was able to find japanese stuff at a thrift store but it’s EXTREMELY. The things in question were 2 earth magic jackets in a size 160cm, but I didn’t really save any money because they costed 65 dollars for the pair.
>>10936156Anon, this person is talking about Lace Market and comm sales...
>>10936156ayrt, I'm talking about buying second hand items from lolitas living in the same country as you do. There are multiple ways to do this. There's LM and several other platforms where people sell items. A lot of good stuff also gets sold within social circles. The best deals I got this year were by buying from lolita friends.And goodness no, I'm not talking about thrift stores. lol.
>>10936117what i've always done during my near 20 years of being in the fashion and living in Europe: tax evasion
Just a blast from the past. It reminded me of y'all.temu is dipping whole ass croissants in resin and selling them with a light as a lamp. RIP resin cookie necklaces.
>>10936117It's kind of an open secret that some people have their ss mark down the value on the parcel and do fake their invoices for customs to get around the situation. It's a very risky thing to do in case you get found out (numbers don't add up etc.), and I don't know how people sleep at night doing this. If you can't afford the customs bill, just don't buy.
>>10936506nayrt, how would the numbers not add up if you go as far as to get a fake invoice?Besides, if you do get found out the worst they can probably do to you is demand you pay the amount of customs duties over the actual price. They're not going to send you to jail.
kek
>>10936752?
>>10936760I think >>10936752 posted this because of the hoop skirt underneath... lumpy petticoat?
>>10930289i haven't lurked here for like 4 years and back then you bitches were whining about how all new dresses were so short, you're always so miserable.
>>10930247This is horrendous >>10930243Matching aprons like this really carry these super long dresses. This is adorable.
>>10936769nayrt, complaining is what makes me happy. I wasn't on cgl around 4 years ago but I've been wearing lolita for 15+ years and don't remember people complaining about brand dresses/skirts being too short except for the people who are tall enough to have fit issues in general. Refresh my memory please.The only thing I can think of that might be related is there was a lot of complaining about almost every dress being high waisted for a year.. or two? That was at least a few years ago.>>10936774nayrt, I generally dislike the longer dresses but I like most of the "grown up alice" designs they've done over the years. The apron does help, a lot.
>>10930239wow anon nice cosplay. is it supposed to be relena from gundam wing???
>>10936837It's a collaboration between a fashion brand and Oshi No Ko.
Is it impressive if someone dresses from head to toe, including accessories/shoes, in the same brand? It seems uncommon in the English sphere but Chinese and Japanese lolitas tend to post coords from only one brand.
>>10936931Chinese and Japanese buyers have a much stronger sense of brand loyalty than Westerners, so they're more likely to only collect pieces from a few brands. Many of the early pre-lolita comm were just somewhat disparate groups of girls who bought from specific brands that looked similar (Olive Girls, Milk etc). It can be impressive if it's rare pieces or coorded exceptionally well, but wearing head to toe AP isn't really a huge feat.
>>10936826when chinese lolitas became client no.1, they had this preference for shorter dresses and japanese brands adapted to their new main consumers. There were many gulls calling them 'new richs' and some racist slurs, their bitterness was hilarious.
>>10936931Depends on the brand. I don't think you'll impress most people in general, but it is pretty satisfying if it's a brand you really love
>>10936933Ahaa, yeah I know what you mean. They were complaining about nouveau riche Chinese girls having "terrible gaudy taste" and influencing things Japanese brands (specifically AP and btssb) were doing.For example one or more aesthetic elements that were previously only seen with Chinese brands started appearing on Japanese brand dresses. It doesn't bother me. Maybe because I'm not interested in contemporary lolita designs. But if I was, maybe not even then. I don't have enough energy to hate that much. I don't get the overal hate towards Chinese lolitas, so what if they are nouveau riche, so what if they have different tastes that are viewed as more costume-y by the western comm, let them have fun. These people act like Chinese lolitas are single handedly destroying the fashion.
>>10936931There are different mindsets surrounding brand loyalty. It seems to be a lot more common for Japanese lolitas to wear coords that consist of the same brand compared to the west. Some of them socialise with other lolitas based on a shared interest in a specific brand. The western comm is more commonly okay with brand mixing, and because lolitas are more spread out in the west we tend to socialise with other lolitas simply based on the fact that they're also lolitas and they live close enough to be in the same local comm. It does happen in the western comm though, it's just not as common. I always take notice when I see someone in head to toe moitie or VM. It's not impressive (my wardrobe is 80% the same brand) but I do like looking at it. But it's not better or worse than someone who mixes brands successfully. Ultimately I care about coording skills above all else.
I'm new to lolita and I got picrel skirt from AmaStacia for my first coord along with their Luminous long-sleeved blouse. I've lurked long enough to know Chinese brands aren't well looked but I really like what they have put out there. Classic got me into the fashion but I hope one day to branch out into gothic or sweet.>>10936506An extra 50% went on covering customs for me. It fucking sucks, but I won't risk it with numbers as anything out of the ordinary in stuff getting shipped here gets destroyed looking for drugs or god knows what else.
>>10936945this is classy as fuck
>>10936945This does look pretty good imo. I hope it is at least as good irl as it looks in the picture. I don't subscribe to mindless hate towards Chinese brands. The large majority of my closet is btssb, but I do have some stuff from Chinese sellers such as antaina shoes, angelic imprint shoes, petticoats from aurora and ariel and a bag from Loris.Chinese lolita clothing can be decent if it's cotton and properly constructed. There are some brands that sell cotton blouses with cotton lace, but I don't like the designs or the colors otherwise I would have tried those.
>>10936963amastacia has mid tier quality, but good for the price and certainly serviceable. they're a great brand for wardrobe filler
>>10936963Imo bags, shoes, and tulle petticoats are exactly what taobao brands are good for, because Japanese brands don’t make those things super high quality in the first place. We all know brand shoes will eventually flake just like taobao shoes, so why not spend less money? But if you were to buy the actual clothing, that’s when you notice a big difference from BTSSB. It’s like the difference between Zara/H&M fast fashion quality vs Levi’s jeans or a well constructed vintage dress.
>>10936988Ayrt, yes, there's definitely a difference in quality. Anything from the width of the seam allowance to thickness of the fabric and how long the interfaced parts retain their shape. When I say decent, in regards to Chinese brand clothing, I mean it's wearable, reasonably comfortable and won't fall apart as quickly as actual fast fashion. If you get a cotton Chinese brand blouse that's not as thin as tissue paper, I expect it will last at least a year of occasional wear (not daily)
>>10936940Honestly, after being in lolita for a decade plus, my belief now is that single brand coords just look better. As an example Ap and baby are commonly mixed by western lolitas, but they are actually totally different. Everything from the artwork down to the construction and lace is different, and each are so distinctive that they really just look best with other pieces made by the same brand. I think that's why a lot of Japanese lolitas wear a single brand. It's also easier to see how different they are when you can go to the store and see them in person vs. buying stuff only online like 99% of western lolitas. Western lolitas focus more on superficial similarities, like "these are both sweet" or "these are the same color" but there's more differences than similarities. It just looks a lot better to wear one brand if I'm being totally honest. This applies to other brands too, those are just an example.
>>10936999ayrt>Western lolitas focus more on superficial similarities, like "these are both sweet"I often got a little pushback when people asked for concrit and I said that imo a certain item doesn't work well (aesthetically speaking) with another item in their coord and they could try swapping it for (insert item here). They would insist it's fine because it's both the same sub style and sometimes even the same color. I thought "do you want concrit or not?". There is a perma ita in my comm who always screams for concrit, and then always pushes back when more in depth concrit is given. I got tired of it, someone else can take over.Some people have told me I'm too particular/perfectionist as if that's bad, but some of these same people also tell me that they love my coords and that they're consistently well done. They cannot put 2 and 2 together. Maybe they wrongly assume I'm judging them harshly. I don't though, and when I give concrit it's always nice, constructive and I meet people where they are at. I also never give concrit unsolicited.It's a lot easier to make single brand coords work, it doesn't really require much insight/coording skills and anyone with money can buy a full set. I'm not saying that's automatically bad or lazy, a lot of my coords are single brand except for the shoes, I just think consistently making great coords that mix brands is a more obvious indicator of someone's skill/taste. So if I'm comparing a single brand coord to a mixed brand coord and they're both equally well done, then them being mixed or not doesn't change my opinion on the coord.
>>10936999honestly yeah, multi-brand coords are harder than people think. baby and IW, VM and sheglit, baby and MAM are all combos that can work in the right circumstances. but baby and AP are further apart from each other aesthetically than any of those.
>>10936949>>10936963It looks and feels pretty good, same for the blouse. I'm just starting to build my wardrobe but would recommend the pieces I bought.What I would give for picrel. BTSSB will do a rerelease, r-right?
>>10937027Wrong pic, I want the shirring OP but I wouldn't scoff at the princess version.
>>109370272nd ayrt, sugar bouquet is ridiculously overpriced on the 2nd market right now. I recommend waiting for btssb to do a rerelease, I'm 99% sure they will, and figure out in advance which colors you like and which pieces will fit you. They might release new colors or different pieces than before, but I think they'll stick with what they've released before. When they rerelease it will be gone within a day, maybe even a few hours, so set an alarm, make sure you have the funds lined up and have a btssb account or use a shopping service. I don't recommend using a shopping service for popular releases because the process isn't automatic for the btssb shop so the staff will manually have to order for you and once they get to your order it might already be sold out.Don't expect 2nd prices to drop after a rerelease, you will see an increased amount of sugar bouquet listings 2nd hand but the price will be higher than in the btssb shop. They do this for every popular release. If you order a sb main piece, I recommend also ordering a headdress, head bow or bonnet.
How long does it take to ship from WunderWelt to the US? Is it like buying from Atelier Pierrot?
>>10937098It's not atepie fast, but it's pretty fast.
https://discord.gg/RnV8m4XZtgclassic lolita and doll archive server.. just for fun, we also share music〜 (server is new, very small)
>>10937041Noted. I really love lavender pieces in general so if there's a rerelease I hope I can grab that OP.For shoes in general, I got in contact with a local shoemaker and if my first commission with him goes well, I plan to get the shoes for my coords made so as long as the guy can get the job done, and if I can't find a similar pair elsewhere. I don't think he can make something like picrel due to the unique soles design, for an eventual sweet coord.
>>10937125Forgot picrel, I'm retarded. Overall, getting shoes made here will be cheaper than importing them, thought from what I gather lolita shoes aren't very durable in the first place.
>>10937126Those shoes are hideous and will not go with sugar bouquet if that’s what you’re planning to use them for. The gloppy design might make sense if you were doing a chocolate-themed coord but even then, they’re too chunky for sweet and too overdesigned for oldschool. If you’re just starting out, try out lots of styles and brands of regular Lolita shoes and find out what works in your coords. Then you can think about commissioning a shoemaker for a higher quality version of something.
>>10937126ayrt, I agree 100% with what >>10937153 said. I'm sorry.
>>10937153>>10937188They're not for sugar bouquet, I just used them as an example of unconventional designs due to the melted look to them that I would have to import. What I'm planning on commissioning is stuff more along the lines of picrel (also not for sugar bouquet).
>>10937203I could swear I selected the pic to get uploaded. It's stuff like this or VM's victorian short boots.
>>10937204This looks fine and I hope they do a good job
would this jsk be a good buy for my first coord? i don't know what people usually prioritize when building wardrobes, i thought this was cute but idk
>>10937258What are you planning to coord it with? The dress is fine, but that collar makes it a bit less versatile than something with a plainer neckline would be.
>>10937259red kc with white lace, white blouse, white socks, black shoes. the collar can be taken off i think
This question is going to sound really off topic but I swear it's relevant and I need a gothic lolita nona's help. I'm trying to do an Etna cosplay and she has these really particular boots. I'm basically not going to try to recreate the boots exactly; but go for something similar enough style (and shape!) wise to make it work. My first thought was Demonia's and I actually found some that are really close. Bulbous toe, platform, two straps, mid calf height. But my thing is I hate vegan leather and don't really want to put in all the effort of sewing an entire cosplay out of actual good materials and leather to then have faux leather boots. I sew and know quite a bit about fashion but I searched sites like SSENSE high and low for actual leather boots; and honestly this style is just really out of mainstream fashion atm. The one thing I thought of (here's where the post becomes on topic again sorry! lol) is maybe someone here knows of a Gothic Lolita brand that might offer something similar? But higher quality and in actual leather?Cutesy Japanese character, gothic style, that's basically where my brain was at. I know nothing about Gothic Lolita brands, so I have no idea where I would even start with this line of thinking. But, I think the key is really how bulbous and cute the toe is. Might sound weird but it makes the shoe look really non-threatening. That's basically what I want gothy non-threatening kinda fat bulbous toe boot lol. Sound like any brands I should look into?
>>10937261 real leather is extremely rare in Lolita shoes. Have you looked at New Rocks?
>>10937261Fake leather is the standard in lolita fashion. You won't find boots like that in real leather from lolita brands. I recommend asking around which brands that cater to the general alternative public are known to have leather options. Expect to pay upwards of 150$.
>>10937261>>10937261UNIF might have something you like... Real leather isn't really a lolita staple but sometimes you can find Taobao or AliExpress sellers willing to do customs with real leather. Expensive though.
>>10937261They look like clown boots meet engineer boots
>>10937326>Real leather isn't really a lolita staplewhat?
>>10937337Nayrt, Of all of the shoes and bags lolita brands are currently selling, how big of percentage do you think is real leather?It's probably less than 5 %, and that's taking into account shops like Angelic Imprint and antaina who focus on shoes, and also with the knowledge that btssb has released some leather crown bags in the last 10 years, and even taking into account brands like Jane Marple and Milk, who a lot of western lolitas don't even consider lolita brands.If a lolita brand or lolita shoe brand releases something in real leather the community in general sees it as really special. I could be wrong, and there might be a lolita brand who regularly releases real leather items, if that's the case then please share it here.
>>10937344>Nayrt, Of all of the shoes and bags lolita brands are currently selling, how big of percentage do you think is real leather JFC, I remember lolita as alternative counterculture, not bunch of brands obsessed comedians who think they are SUPPOSED and EXPECTED to buy some made in China brands stuff only. You probably would get a heart attack after hearing that 15 - 10 years ago it was normal to buy stuff in thrift shops.
>>10937349It was normal to buy stuff in thrift shops because it was difficult to buy straight from brands. Today, now almost all Japanese brands have English websites or English support.Brand names have always been important in Japan; even in the 80s and 90s everyone was quick to show off their Vivienne Westwood and Milk items.
>>10937344IW released a leather bag and leather shoes this year and are planning to release another leather shoe design in the next collection.
>>10937349I was there 15 years ago, and it's never been considered a good idea to buy things for lolita from thrift stores in the west. The large majority of the time people think they've found something suitable for lolita it's really not. It's something beginners do and advise other people to do. It's not mandatory to buy from lolita brands, but if you don't want to buy from brands then making something yourself or commissioning other people is better than trying to find suitable stuff in thrift stores. It's a waste of time.
>>10937350nayrt, but that's not why western lolitas tried to find things in thrift stores. It's always been pretty easy to buy from japanese brands if you had the money, either straight from the brands themselves (there were brands who were doing this in the early 2000s), or by using a shopping service. Most of the people wearing new AP in the early 2000s bought it using a shopping service or bought it during a trip to japan.The age range of the western comm was younger than it is now. A lot of people didn't have well paying jobs yet because they were either still in school or working at their first job at an entry position. There was also less trust in shopping services or even brands themselves. Sometimes when they were minors living at home, their parents didn't allow them to order online internationally. This meant that, for them, buying new was expensive, not allowed or and a bit scary. The second hand lolita market in the west was also pretty small at that stage. So a lot of people tried to "lolify" mainstream items, or went looking at thrift stores. It was just desperation and trying to make do. The large majority of these things weren't good though. It was like at least a quarter of the online international comm was still in their ita phase.I agree with you that brands have always been important to lolitas in general. I might be wrong but I vaguely remember that Shoichi Aoki (fruits magazine photographer) tried to not include many proper/cookie cutter lolita outfits because he thought it was too commercialized and too brand driven.
>>10937355A very welcome change, I wish more brands would do that.
>>10937366Exactly. I’ve been into lolita since 2006 and thrifting for ‘loliables’ has always been a big joke. Many people did it because they had no better options, but it was definitely looked down on by those who actually wore the fashion. IMO back then people used to be even bigger brand loyalists because offbrand lolita simply wasn’t a thing. Aside from the very rare exception of well done handmade, if it wasn’t from a Japanese lolita brand (or Bodyline) it just wasn’t lolita. There was no middle ground. What was acceptable were bags and shoes from a handful of Western designers like VW, which you’re not going to find at your average thrift store, and stuff like needlepoint grandma purses for classic. Though I remember those being looked down on as well as the fashion moved away from the creepy old porcelain doll look towards more generic cuteness/prettiness.
>>10937379Ayrt, very true. Although I do love old school and don't want to wear the type of cute styles that developed after the old school era. It's pretty and I like seeing it on other people and I don't judge anyone for buying it, but I miss the frumpiness and the darkness/creepiness. Post old school sweet was either overdone for me or sort of cute to the point that it because artificial or sterile. Idk how to describe it. Too perfect? Too manufactured? It lacks something for me. That's why I like the weird looking first usakumya and would never buy the recent version.Early 2000s there were no Chinese brands yet, bodyline was the cheapest store bought option. I think Anna House popped up in 2004? And there was fanplusfriend in 2007, maybe before that even. But both of those looked off to me except for a few items that were a bit higher quality from friendplusfriend. They had a good quality coat, probably a replica. My friend bought it and we were shocked there was actual rabbit fur used for the fur accents. We expected fake fur since the coat was under 200$.I occasionally complain about how the lolita sewing groups are overrun with beginners and terrible design and fabric choices. But in the 2000s there were less people who could sew decently. I think you could count them on one hand. Big fish, small pond. I prefer having more skilled people, it's just better to have more possible sources of information. But yes, like you say no middle ground between jpn brand and home made. No taobao or other budget options except for bodyline for a few years.
I just got a new blouse with detachable sleeves but they're just a bit too short. Would it be noticable if I added a small width of fabric to the top of the sleeve hidden underneath the frill of the short sleeve and move up the elastic loops? Maybe hide the seam with some lace? I would just make new sleeves and reuse the lace from the old one but the fabric selection where I live is ass.
Would it be rude to wear a coord with AATP accessories to a Baby event? Or is it ok because they're sister brands?
>>10937494I'd assume it to be perfectly fine.
>>10937450If the sleeve ends in a ruffle, you could just add another tier of ruffle under it, or lace. Or just wear wristcuffs to give the illusion of a longer sleeve
