>>10940386
>>10940387
>>10940388
>>10940388This is cute
>>10940389I so much want to fix this. From the top down: A wig to balance out proportionA good braCardigan that fitsIron EverythingLonger skirt in a better colorCute boots to bring up the eye and help with proportion
>>10940395its extremely ita
>>10940395It's a mess but if she were skinny and less dumpy she could probably pull it off.
Everything for wearing THAT dress
I feel like there are rarely actually lolitas on tiktok
>>10940441Is there any good lolita on TikTok that you recommend ?
>>10940440Aside from objective assessments of outfit quality, why do some people like this act like wearing unusual clothes makes them "lose aura"? Do they even like the clothes they choose to wear?
>>10940447Most lolitas post on ig, or don't post online at all. But I do enjoy mewklekitty and sweetmaybelle (she mostly does german content, but also sometimes adds english subtitles) jess.teabunny has solid coords too. They're also some smaller creators who actually try, like rusialuvs for example. Most lolitas on tiktok are just 'trendhoppers' tho
>>10940468mewklekitty is so ita
>>10940470Why do you think so? The only thing she did, that could be considered ita, is not wearing a petticoat for once
lmao, the troons
>>10940138Basically just don't call it lolita and/or don't be fat and nobody gets hurt feefees
>>10940487Genuine question but what do you do if you’re actively losing weight between the time you still look fat and the time people will only notice you for your coord and not your excess weight? Assuming in that timeframe you wear the fashion do you just accept that some asshole on the internet is going to share your pic to call you a lard while you’re actively improving yourself? Wearing an ita coord can be fixed overnight but weight loss can take months to years depending on how overweight someone started out.
>>10940507It's probably best to keep wearing it and pursuing goals. >do you just accept that some asshole on the internet is going to share your pic to call you a lard while you’re actively improving yourself?Yeah, it just comes with the territory of being the nail that sticks out. If it's not because of being a lard it could/will be something else.
>>10940514
>>10940515
>>10940507nayrt but it is extremely rare that people get posted here just because they're fat. It's also rare that lolitas are posted here just because they have an ugly face. And when that happens people just call them out for vendetta posting or something like that. There are plenty of fat lolitas who post publicly that I have never seen posted to the ita thread. Just assume that if people are posted to the ita thread it's because of the way they dress. If you're curious why an outfit is deemed bad then just ask, I'm sure you will get some explanations.Also well done on improving yourself, that already puts you miles ahead of the people who don't even try.
>>10940516
>>10940519
>>10940520
>>10940514those purple tights on the left, that ugly blouse in the middle, and those mismatched colour and length socks on the end. at least theyre all equally retarded>>10940515that fucking tranny on the end, ugly ass mismatched everything and pink converse???>>10940516sneakers...>>10940519better shoes needed, better petticoat, everything else looks pretty ok, just her ugly facial expression is off putting >>10940520the tie, the new rocks, christ >>10940522thats such a cute skirt ruined by such a retarded lardita. what is with that weird sweater thing? who told her this looked good?
>>10940515For the tartan girl the dress is the fit, otherwise everything else is ugly ew
>>10940595The tartan dress is the only good thing about her outfit. The socks, shoes and blouse look low quality. Can't see the headdress though. The makeup is horrible.
Another ugly tiktoker defending Amazon with excuses like “i am American I like fast and convenient”. Also brings up “racialized america” and being trans as if that changes anything
>>10940601Literally what part of a Japanese subculture fashion hobby (luxury, not necessity) has anything to do with America or American sociopolitics. I’m American and I’m sick with how many of us refuse to think globally.
>>10940520Nice vendetta post
>>10940601Beside from putting people down for telling him to not buy from amazon, he gives me such weird vibes and I can't even explain why. Something about him truly disgusts me
>>10940613AGP
>>10940613it's okay to be creeped out by a biological male who looks like a walmart version of Him from Powerpuff Girls. you don't need to justify it kek
I hate it when vkei fans dress in lolita
>>10940612This is so privileged bye
>>10940621WHALEITA
>>10940601I'm glad I don't have tiktok. But yeah it's the "I'm a victim so it's justified if I buy a replica" argument again. They will always say they're poor/too big/trans and that's why it's okay if they buy replicas, and if you say that there is nothing that justifies buying a replica then you're an elitist/fatphobic/transphobic.>>10940602>I’m American and I’m sick with how many of us refuse to think globally.This was very evident in the latest size discussion. >"japanese brands should offer a US size 24, they don't because they're fat phobic" >"are you going to buy it if they do?">cricketsI'm assuming you're not one of these entitled assholes. Please explain why these people think a foreign brand with a foreign target demographic should cater to them as americans.
>>10940603nayrt but the shoes, bag and tie obviously don't go with the blouse and dress. I understand wanting to experiment and try out different things, but then also accept it's not always going to a be a success.
>>10940615lol. that's too accurate
>>10940631Ayrt about Americans and genuinely it’s the same sense of entitlement I see coming from FA spaces about size. They just don’t understand that businesses produce for their core demographics and for even normie clothing manufacturers anything above a US size 16-18 is extremely shaky territory unless you’re specifically a plus size clothing retailer. At least where I live (a large metropolitan area) US size 16-18 is still considered quite large. I think general consensus is probably that lettered sizes are the most “normal” to be (XS-XL) and anything above that you can’t necessarily expect to find everywhere you go to shop. There are a lot of really loud people though that think just because people outside of normal ranges exist that every single person should be able to find any clothes they want in any style at any pricepoint and apparently even across global borders from nations where the average size is a US S/M. Pure delusion. For the ones who actually put their money where their mouth is and buy Meta’s plus-plus sizes and Atepie’s size 3/4 I gotta respect that they’re willing to pay for brand like the rest of us to show they’re a demographic that will shell out when catered to.
>>10940632>>10940632Ayrt but this is how a lot of old school/proto styling was. They’re what we’d consider “tacky” or “ita” today but it’s really not if you know what old school coords actually looked like. I’d suggest checking out some street snaps from old glbs or fruits. It makes me sad to see that so many newer lolitas don’t know what old coords looked like.
>>10940634there is almost no overlap between the entitled asshole group and the group willing to buy directly from japanese brands>>10940635I've seen the same stuff other oldschoolers who have been around for a long time have seen, including late 90s~early 2000s street snaps. "This is how a lot of old school/proto styling was" does not automatically make it good. I have nothing against experimenting, just in case that wasn't clear, I just think that this particular combination looks bad and I can see why it was posted.A similar concept with a black tie, black bag and black shoes that I think would work better, whilst still not being a polished/formulaic lolita coord; a shorter neck tie with lace worn under a peter pan collar blouse. Most large solid color black meta bags earlier than 2005 would work better than the one she's carrying. I understand wanting to wear big ugly stompers but I would pick different ones https://lolibrary.org/items/meta-boots If you want something more edgy than that then consider looking at items from more edgy/tacky lolita brands or lolita adjacent brands but you have to be more discerning.I can't guarantee this would be a roaring success, but it would certainly be less of an eyesore than this coord is.
zip your dress
>>10940668How embarrassing
>>10940668What is she wearing, An Elizabeth replica? Why is it so short.
>>10940616I mean, they've basically always been here. You can see lolita in the audiences of old vkei lives if you pay attention. I've seen them in early gackt lives and buck-tick ones. I feel like people tend to forget that connection.
>>10940634>>10940634it pisses me off that people refuse to learn how businesses work, like they expect everything to cater to every size but don’t understand how much money it costs and how much money will probably be lost with it, and even if you try to explain they’ll just call you fatphobic because they don’t know how else to channel their anger. it reminds me about arguing with this person who said every city should be walkable and i tried to explain how that wasn’t realistic, but they don’t want to hear it, and they never try to come up with any solutions, all they do is complain and blame capitalism
Can vkei fans pls stay away from this fashion
>>10940936vkei fans pioneered the fashion, retard. can newfags stay out?
>>10940386i can only assume this was meant to be uncle-fester core in which case, uh....good job? definitely communicates the character.>>10940388this doesn't bother me terribly much as 'casual lolita' or roomwear until i reach the boots.>>10940438this feels like someone who doesn't know what lolita fashion is irl but has seen BJDs wearing it.>>10940482surely this is a confused cosplayer>>10940514all three of these seemed 'fine' at first until i scrolled down. how is it somehow impossible to find nice legwear/shoes for all three of them?real talk how have the ita threads somehow gotten WORSE as the west has gotten more exposure to jfashionsurely you think it would have course-corrected by now
>>10940430she isn't ana-tier but she looks to be a natural healthy kind of thin already
>>10940948>real talk how have the ita threads somehow gotten WORSE as the west has gotten more exposure to jfashionChinese brands. (Not all of them of course). Quality; The lowest quality items are either mass produced (and sold on aliexpress) or sold by lower budget chinese brands. Design; if you see a design that is excessively costumey it's most likely from a chinese brand. Accessibility; they offer items (typically) at lower prices than japanese brands and some of them also offer different sizes and custom sizing options.Itas have bad taste, they are nearly always unwilling to spend money for decent quality and they are also often fat. So of course they're going to be drawn to chinese brands and mass production aliexpress stuff.Before chinese brands really got going the worst quality there was was bodyline, which is really not that bad in hindsight. The community was also self policing to a greater degree, if you did something wrong they were more likely to just tell you compared to now.>>10940970I wouldn't call it thin or skinny, this just looks normal to me. Maybe a tiny bit chubby (which is fine). Fitting into brand doesn't automatically equal skinny/thin.
>>10940441Yeah you kill a hobby when you scare off anyone new>>10940438>>10940439>>10940440>>10940441>>10940520>>10940612All of these are fine
>>10941005>>10940438 its the new rocks, leg warmers, and the accessories not really matching the dress>>10940439 has no petticoat, dress is poorly fitting, the accessories dont match, cringe makeup>>10940440 aliexpress duplicate dress thats cheap shit, adding misplaced chains that dont match the dress colours >>10940441 not even lolita. its short, no blouse, aliexpress crap that isn't even accessorised correctly. its too bloated in the bottom as well>>10940520 everything is misplaced, accessories and new rocks dont match the dress, a fucking tie is there for no reason, blouse is cheap shit>>10940612 poorly fits, no petticoat, accessories dont fityou sound like a butthurt ita yourself, especially if you cant even tell whats wrong with these. is one of these you?
>>10941040
>>10940516Let's bring back nitpick threads; this would be fine with proper shoes.
>>10941041
>>10941043
>>10941044
>>10941040>bolero under jskwhy
>>10940945One vkei guy made it somewhat more popular. That doesn't mean you look good in it, retard.If you're not Mana-sama, just fuck off.
>>10941055You are over 20 years too late to be making this complaint. Go back in time and bitch at the bangya lolita hanging out on harajuku bridge
"Y’all I bought my first Lolita dress and blouse! It’s not baby the stars shine bright or angelic pretty quality but it’s really good quality and I think it’s pretty!"MeanwhileSo wrinkled it looks like used tissue paperSo much static you can see the cheap ribbons sticking to the dress and the sleeve sticking to the bodiceI'm 1000000% certain this person has never actually touched btssb or they'd be way too embarrassed to say its "really good quality" BAKA
>>10941034She always looks ita
>>10941055>oneYou can't be serious
>>10941055>>10941056>>10941064Nayrt but I'm jumping in because I think there needs to be a distinction made between lolitas attending concerts/live shows and wearing lolita without being itas and vkei fans who wear vkei fashion (one or more of the styles under that umbrella) who then try to incorporate lolita pieces in their outfits or try to wear lolita whilst incorporating vkei aesthetics and the resulting outfit looks terrible because they don't really understand how to combine the two.If we can just all agree that the former group is fine and the latter group is doing a bad job (and therefore deserving to be in the ita thread if they call their outfit lolita) then we can move on from this back and forth about who understands what before it really starts to shit up the thread.
>>10941055You're a poser for thinking this way. Why join a music oriented scene if you hate the music and the fans?
>>10941059I feel like the issue with these babylitas is that a lot of them don't bother with researching anything before buying, it's not even that hard to get a cheap taobao JSK/OP that doesn't look like absolute horseshit. Pretty sure most of their lolita knowledge comes from the scraps you get from tiktok.
>>10941008Oh I don’t dress in Lolita. I’m a cosplayer but, your hobby seems completely anal and devoid of fun.
>>10941045That dress will never look good
>>10941080Nayrt(Insert negative stereotypes about cosplay, the cosplay community and cosplayers themselves).Right back at ya.
>>10940613Same, for me its the sissy looking outfits that are from amazon / aliexpress and his god awful attitude. Hes so rude and condecending and you can tell he thinks of himself as an amazing top tier lolita lmao. Checked his tiktok and saw no indication of him being trans, so to me he seems like yet another creepy pretentious man who thinks that just because hes a man in a predominantly womans space he deserves praise and ass pats for doing a sub par job. if men want to be in this fashion they should have to put in the same level of effort at women and ffs shave the beard.
>>10941059I felt so much second hand embarrassment when I saw "but it's really good quality", referring to THAT dress. Everything's good quality for itas as long as it doesn't fall apart in their hands apparently.
Wearing a black dress doesn't make it lolita
Apologize for being fat
>>10941080oh ok faggot kys your cosplay is dogshit
>>10940601
>>10941225
>>10941082Is it a sin to iron your clothes? I'll never understand how people who wear Lolita, a fashion which is all about looking good, are able to simply ignore how unkept their own clothes are. Ffs get an iron
>>10941328These are people who have never cared about looking good and they have never had any interest in fashion either, they treat lolita like a "nerd costume", they don't care. They're also never interested in lolita history, new releases, personal hygiene or doing hair and make-up well. They don't care about the brands that made lolita, they don't mind buying replicas either.
>>10941328Your first mistake was expecting a morbidly obese person to have any semblance of self awareness when it comes to the way they look.
>>10941334The body shape is not the problem here, the wrinkled pieces are. She coulda've looked much better with proper ironed clothes and better accessories. I'm guessing it was a personal kind of post however as I can't seem to find the one in that photo>>10941226Sheesh
>>10941347>pink dollettenot even real>shoujijapanese door style?>himekaji and lolitanot even closewhat a clusterfuck
>>10941371This is accurate for what 95% of people in the lolita sewing groups on fb are like.Ugly (and/or male), obese, no sense of style or what lolita is, tacky Joann's fabric that shouldn't be used for clothes delusional about what they look like.I was going to say something about the interior decor, but have to admit that at least this one doesn't have mystery stains on wall to wall carpeting and you can still see the floor. If there is something you can do with 70s style brown tile floor and wood veneer walls, it's not whatever he is doing with it.
>>10941388sheeeeeeiiit, I'm thankful that I had the chance to save this one, dude literally living my dream
>>10941392You're disgusting, go kys retard
>>10941388wtf am i looking at
>>10941399this would look better on someone skinny but I don’t hate it completely
Imagine seeing your dream dress coorded like this
>>10941405It might be a replica>>10941403Nayrt, I don't think this is ita level bad but it's below decent. Overstuffed skirt, blouse made out of really low quality fabric, blouse doesn't fit properly, I can't say much about the skirt material and the shoes since they're not that clearly visible in the photo but I suspect they aren't good quality either. Those bangs don't suit her, there are other styles of bangs that would look better on her. It's not ita level but it's very "this is my first outfit and I got it from amazon". It's just awkward looking.
>>10941080Good
>>10940507Ignore Internet words
>>10940522her ankles are buckling>>10940613men who dress in womens' clothes tend to do that for normal people.>>10941371Rocco?
I wonder how many selfpost here just to play the victim card and later persecute those they don't like.
>>10941458It’s not a replica, >>10941405 commonly forces herself into too-small AP. She’s incredibly ita yet she thinks she’s an authority on the fashion because she has some shitty podcast.
>>10941558How pitiful
>>10941558>She’s incredibly ita yet she thinks she’s an authority on the fashionThat sounds like the norm in this thread
>>10941567For the community as a whole more like. The more authoritative someone is about the fashion, the worse their coords actually are. Every time.
>>10941571I might even say that the bigger a channel is, the more likely it is that it's an ita. I was genuinely surprised one (not the community clown) got a 42lolita sponsorship. Sure resellers often suck and a lot of people dislike chinese brands, but I'm surprised the people from 42lolita could not tell that this youtuber has terrible dress sense.
>>10941578I'd wager that it was the sponsored ita that went after them. They're often the ones begging brands to give them things for free. I'm on a national group for Lolitas from all around the country and it's a shitshow.
>>10941590That makes a lot of sense because they always say "I can't afford brand, not everyone has 500$ to spend on a dress you know". But then they also don't take much of an interest in the second hand brand market. They want it new and they want it cheap.
>>10941600It's honestly really weird how many western lolitas just straight up hate Japanese brands, they will not even consider them and don't want anything to do with them, and don't like people that like them. It's honestly kind of fucked up.
>>10941634It's the inferiority complex. They can't fit into Japanese brand or afford it, and they resent people who can. Some even make up woke reasons why Japanese brand is actually bad/classist/fatphobic/racist in order to feel superior for buying cheap plastic.
>>10941634>>10941641They're just greedy. They want everything available in their size even if they're not going to buy it, they don't want second hand, and they want it cheap. Chinese brands are the only brands that check all of those boxes. The -ism accusations are just a cover up. Like you said they have an inferiority complex and are resentful of people who can buy and fit into Japanese brand. The bitterness just seeps out and then they say things like "I like chinese brands better anyway, they are much more creative than japanese brands who are just making the same stuff over and over and copying each other. (insert japanese brand here) is racist, ableist and fatphobic because I signed up to walk in the fashion show but they didn't pick me because I'm plus sized, black and have to use a cane".Lolitas who wear japanese brand can get pretty enthusiastic when they talk to each other about the things they love about their favorite brand(s). For example new designs, new prints, re-releases of iconic prints/dresses/bags/blouses, how beautiful the torchon lace on their dress is, how comfortable their clothes are, a new interview with their favorite designer, etc.I rarely see lolitas who mainly/only wear chinese brands do the same, and when they do it's not to the same extent. They might say something nice about the cute bunny print, the embroidery on an apron or that the lace on the galaxy themed dress has stars and moons in it. But that's pretty much the most I've ever noticed. They're usually kind of lukewarm about stuff. Perhaps pining for brands they can't fit into and/or they think is too expensive, or they are just the type that likes lolita fashion but doesn't love it and doesn't want to spend money on it.
>>10941642nayrt but I also have encountered more than enough ex-lolitas who used to wear brand and then adopted shit lifestyle habits that made them not fit into brand anymore and instead of deciding to lose weight they quit wearing nice clothes and sold everything. I don't get it. People can change size over time but it's not permanent. Imagine searching the secondhand market for ten years for your dream wardrobe and then throwing a fit and selling it all because you gained weight and then decided that a massive excess of ultra-processed junk food was a better use of your money and health. I personally cannot fathom that choice.
this makeup lmao. spoken like a true ita
>>10941644I don't get it either. One of the things I like about lolita is that a lot of the clothes have some size flexibility due to shirring panels, straps with elastic in them, adjustable straps, lacing and waist ties. If you gain or lose you're probably still going to fit into it unless the weight difference is really big. I see plenty of lolitas who try to lose some weight or are conscious about what they eat so they can continue to fit into their lolita wardrobe. Why would you sell your wardrobe (which you supposedly love) if the best solution is to just live a healthier lifestyle? If you gain a lot, then why not wear plus sized lolita clothing whilst you work on yourself?I can imagine seeing yourself in lolita after you've gained a lot, and then disliking what you now look like in lolita to the point where you decide to go on hiatus until you did what you think you needed to do. But that's not the same as doing something so final as selling everything. I can only guess they stopped being as interested in lolita over time. The weight gain might just have been what finally forced them to make a decision to stop wearing lolita.
>>10941646She is going to be a perma ita with that attitude.
>>10941644I guess it's the lack of self awareness that gets me. The brands are small, they are pretty much small businesses employing small time artists, which is stuff that these girls claim they want to support. But when they are a Japanese brand they hate it. They don't even like maxicimam which does all the stuff they claim to want. Like lolita only exists because of these small Japanese brands, don't they get it? If it was a small US artist being stolen from and trampled on they would all be all over it but because it's Japanese it's like it's lesser to them. If they are sad they can't fit that's one thing but they will never admit that and come up with a bunch of excuses why they hate them so much.
>>10941644Americans seem to think it's normal to just gain weight slowly forever, like a slowly inflating balloon
>>10941662maxicimam is so under appreciated in the west. Their size range is insane (like 170cm max bust on one of their dresses), they have really good blouses that would go with other brands as well, they're usually priced somewhat below other japanese brands, and I read they still produce all of their stuff in Japan (someone please fact check me).It's literally everything that these people say they want. My guess why they're not interested in maxicimam is because they think it's still too expensive, maxicimam doesn't make the sort of prints they like and/or they think the style of maxicimam's main pieces is a bit weird and/or they're really not interested in anything remotely old school in style.The impression I get is that the large majority of these people like super sweet stuff from the 2010s or later, that's also why they complain about AP much more than they complain about any other brand.>>10941663I once saw a plus sized lolita youtuber put an entire roll of cookies on a plate for herself and called it a snack. My guess is that over consumption of junk food day in day out is some sort of coping mechanism or filling a void.
>>10941646She is so ita and seems like a mean wannabe
The 42lolita weekly showcase is a full ita thread itself
>>10941675MAM is also still using cotton fabric in 2024.
>>10941675I'm worried about buying anything from a size inclusive brand because I'm really really short (below 56 inches) and I'm scared it will be too big like most american clothes are haha. Do you know if they are good for short heights?
>>10941694At that height the large majority of lolita brands will be longer on you than intended. If you're buying a knee length skirt it will be below knee length on you.You will have similar issues with the length of the bodice and sleeves.Best thing you can do is figure out how long you need your skirts, bodices and sleeves to be (measurements in cm is easiest). Then look at the listed measurements for clothes you're interested in. For some items it won't be a problem if they're too long. You can shorten the elastic on shoulder straps or move the button on adjustable straps.The waistline of higher waisted dresses won't fall below your waist so higher waisted dresses are an easier option. You can also consider more serious alterations. A lot of things can be made shorter. Wearing separates (blouse and skirt) will make it easier to wear as well because you can just hide the excess blouse length under your skirt. Skirts are also available in various lengths. Something that is halfway up my upper legs might be perfect for you if you want something knee length.Most brands offering plus sized clothes will make their plus sized clothes longer than their M size.Do you need something that is bigger (or accommodates bigger bust/waist)?Which styles and brands are you interested in?It's difficult to give recommendations without that information. But for now you can take your measurements and see if the clothes you want will work or not.I don't have any first hand experience with MAMs or Metas plus size range since I often fit into the regular size or fall between regular and plus size. I think they're great options for people who need plus sized lolita though.
Lolita where ?
Genuinely wtf is this
>>10941744How is this outfit ita?
>>10941746schizo kei. genuinely at a loss with this one
>>10941760obese, ungroomed eyebrows and no makeup, bloomers look incredibly cheap, and the socks and shoes don't match the rest of the coord.
>>10941766Such a nitpick and ur a beginner. Nobody in old school cares about makeup. Socks and shoes can be better but ur nitpicking. Nobody on this site knows how to wear os.>>10941746This person’s making a fool of himself
>>10941760It’s a tranny
>>10941771If you're so facially unfortunate you look like you'd be more at home in a Legend of Zelda graphic tee and cargo shorts than a lolita coord then you should probably be doing something with your face. No one said it had to be a full face of instathot drag makeup.also>dress released in 2007>usakumya pochette>tulle lace>"old school"I don't really think it's your place to be calling anyone else a beginner kek. Please stop typing like a retard and learn to integrate before venturing outside of tiktok next time.
>>10941744>>10941771Blah blah blah nayrt I'll be real with you instead of making up shit. That man looks like a fat ogre and he's stuffed himself in clothing made for women half his size. He's too big for the fashion, height and fat wise. His face is also so unmistakably male, not kawaii. You're right that the coord is fine on paper but it looks like shit on him cause he looks like that. and don't come at me with the sticker test bullshit because you can't wear the sticker in the real world or the "muh fatphobia discrimination". It's just not a good coord if it doesn't fit or suit you reasonably well, simple as. There are other trannies that pull off the fashion decently enough not to make us wretch on sight like this.Here's a real nitpick: Wearing all Baby, The Stars Shine Bright above the bloomers, and the mix of random shit from the bloomers down, that is a nitpick, but it gives me the ick. I hate that those Metamorphose socks get shoehorned into everything and I hate Doc Martens in lolita but again that's my personal nitpick.
>>10941766Ayrt, makeup isn't mandatory in old school at all. All we see of the bloomers is the lace, which is a type of lace that's not common for old school but mostly used with more modern sweet items and I see no indication that it's low quality, we can't see it that well. Those shoes aren't the best option stylistically with the rest of the outfit imo but this type of shoe was fairly common with a lot of different sweet lolita coords using darker colors. It's era appropriate. You're right the socks (and imo the bloomers as well) don't suit the dress, blouse and headdress and this is not a good coord but it's not an ita level offense and neither are the shoes, the lack of makeup or the bmi of the person wearing it even if you combine them all.
>>10941773Tranny or not, it looks like it could be a homely looking woman. Grooming the eyebrows and doing makeup won't make this person not look like a homely looking woman.
>>10940936>be a bandman of moi dix mois a vkei band>owner of one of the biggest egl fashion house>host the biggest tea partyyeah sure
>>10941774>implying 2007 isn't old school
>>10941774>>10941775Ayrt, need some copium? Post better itas
>>10941775nayrt but what do you mean the meta socks get shoehorned into everything? I have never seen this person posted before, is this a personal vendetta or do they wear those socks with every coord?
>>10941837It's not and never has been considered so.>>10941838Sorry you got posted.
>>10941820missing the point massively
>>10941642i used to see a bit of that same excitement and community discussion around a handful of the higher end chinese brands, notably krad lanrete, but not really anymore
>>109416422010s lolita here, also fat. left for a while and came back in 2024. I don't get excited about brands anymore because they've moved on from what I used to love about them. The prints are way too busy and pastel compared to before. But I never liked sweet anyways. current IW has lost it's appeal for me. MM barely releases anymore but would never have fit me regardless. Moitie looks and feels like crap now. I can mostly find what I loved previously in current taobao brands. The market doesn't feel catered to me anymore like really did in 2010-2014.I think it's fantastic that Meta started producing plus size garments but their brand never appealed to me. In fact the only brand who seems to remain somewhat consistent in feeling has been sweet AP and AATP.The move to polyester really hurt what I even want to buy to adjust to me fit me as well. I am pleased that gulls never change though. Browsing reddit and discords just seem to hug box people who could genuinely improve are not getting tips and I was shocked that blouseless coords have been normalized since i've been gone.
>>10941850Since when?
>>10941866Blouseless coords have always existed. Only western lolitas think they haven't.
>>10941872Existing and normalized is vastly different
>>10941866>I don't get excited about brands anymore because they've moved on from what I used to love about themayrt and yes, that's understandable. What specific style/brand did you like in the 2010s? I don't wear classic but IW is vastly different from what it used to be, I don't like the direction they've taken the brand in. What are you finding with taobao brands that you do love?Have you checked out VM main pieces from 2023 and this year? Some of them are quite big without labeling it as plus sized. They also came out with a plus sized version of one of their most well known dresses a while ago.But yeah, it's rare to see people who are really enthusiastic about chinese brand releases, even rarer to hear someone's ultimate dream dress is from a chinese brand.
>>10941005grow a pair of eyes my nigga>>10940936vkei is not the issue here its being a teenage microceleb on covid era tiktok alt juice getting asspats for looking like shit>>10940945>>10941055>>10941820I transheart vkei and egl but that walled sissy gets too much credit
>>10941892>that walled sissy gets too much creditlol
>>10941903It's oddly pleasant how both dresses end at the same height thanks to their height difference.
>>10941875Blouseless coords have always been normal during summer. There are a lot of dresses that do not look good blouseless, and a lot of itas that wear blouseless because they are too cheap to buy blouses instead of as an intentional styling choice, but the western opposition to blouseless or bare shoulders is just silly.
>>10941760it's because normal people do genuinely yeah ~hate seeing "trans girls" in full brand~ you stupid faggot
>>10941880>even rarer to hear someone's ultimate dream dress is from a chinese brand.I will say that my dream dress is still Surface spell's underbust jsk moonlight cathedral. I was actually over the moon when they still had it up on their custom shop after all this time.However, My favorite brand was IW. If I had unlimited budget back then I would gotten a lot of their collections. I find on taobao, brands a lot of what I have been liking is more on the country type of substyle. Classic is seems to have turnt in to country lolita. For real classic, Miss point has a quite a few. I picked up their violin skirt and coat set.I have my eye on a few other items like Edwardian OP and the spoon jsk, pic related, etc. A few of their tiered skirts as well. Tiny garden has nice stuff but it's so-so quality, as it should be with that price. NyaNya, Yolanda have a few pieces I like. Elpress L and infanta aren't like I remember. I really loved the infanta green plaid toy Christmas jsk from way back when. Surface spell is putting out some things i like. However, I am just not the type of customer that is what is being catered to in the brand space. I see one thing I like but then 50 I think is costume-y or like rainbow throw up.If MM catered to my size range I think i'd have a full wardrobe of them honestly. I really like the simple cuts where detail on fabric and craftsmanship is at the forefront.
>>10941944nitpick
>>10941903>usakumya pochette>unkempt hair on the left>lack of bangs on the right>looks like a manDid I get everything?>>10941944What's the issue here?
>>10941944She knows how to buy brand yet she doesn’t know how to properly wear it
>>10941951>unkempt hairSo funny to see someone saying that when for a period of time people were buying wigs to replicate this exact hairstyle for a few years.
Tiktok itas at their peak
>>10941971This drives me absolutely bananas. Like, things have rules. That's how you become apart of something. They could call it a billion different things to separate it from lolita fashion: kawaii fashion, lolita-inspired, or whatever. But if they choose to call it lolita, then it's just shitty lolita. And then they get mad about it?Bananas.
>>10941970The concept of "ita" is ultimately as influenced by trends as anything else can be
>>10941903left looks cute.
>>10941951>usakumya pochetteId love having this pochette to pair up with my blue and black moitie. I see no problem here. Better than buying moitie's bland black bear
>>10941983I don't think there's really an issue with it personally. They both look alright save for the hair
>>10941982Left looks like she did not wash for weeks
>>10941995Did you know that when people go outside, there’s something called wind? Please i beg people to post actual itas omg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmKWXSJOm0E
>>10942066Here's what I found out in less than 10 minutes. This is a middle aged man with a beard, who is open about being a sock and panty fetishist, who got off on the panties he stole from his cousin, and he's also a grifter with delusional power fantasies and heaps of entitlement.He made a book, and says he went to art school for this https://www.amazon.com/Sons-Gods-Neither-Nor-Men-ebook/dp/B09K4D183T?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.1xnfrBIOO2FDc4r7yMImbw.3oAN5KRptiv-YqBRmEa_ziV7_5-EsE6P98cxXOo1O6g&dib_tag=se&qid=1732814800&refinements=p_27%3AMarf+Norrelia&s=books&sr=1-1This is what he looks like (picrel). He shows several "lolita" outfits in one of his twitch streams, and they appear to be his (not from his wife or something he borrowed from someone else). In some of his content he presents his interest in lolita fashion as something he does solely for his comedic alter ego to increase subscribers/followers, but in other content he suggests it's a way in which he engages in his fetish.We all know it's the latter.I wanted to find out who this guy was so I could block him on social media platforms we're both on, but he does not seem to have an IG or fb account. I've also never heard of him before this so I doubt he's on any non-anonymous platforms.
>>10942062Stop defending yourself it’s embarrassing
#egl wtf?
She said "my yes' in lolita fashion" and then "Animal ears" & "blouseless" wtf
>>10942073I thought it to be a self post.
>>10942079Could be but what would he gain from that if he's a nobody?
>>10942087Views for his shitty channel? I just clicked and immediately left, as it was too much of an eyesore for me, but the video was posted only days ago and, being a nobody, nobody knows about his channel. So maybe he wanted to farm for clicks in hopes of being humiliated (as that seems to be part of his gross fetish, as the other anon noted). Maybe for this kind of person the best approach is to report and ignore.
The shoes and headpiece? Lmao
You buy a $400 dress just to tie the waist ties like this It’s literally free to learn how to tie a bowFucking wannabe
>>10942135You know, the disney ears don't bother me so much as why we are wearing house shoes outdoors. Disgusting.
>>10941347Oh hey! That’s my screenshot!! Interesting to find this while scrolling! :•)
>>10941371Dude looks like he got wrapped in his mom's table clothes by his pals when he was passed out drunk kek>>10941386Unbelievable to say that this room looks at least 50% more clean than what other lolitas and those who pretend to be one show off. Too many nasty people out there showing off their dirty grey rags (why is this even a thing still), living in piles of packaging or just straight up drowning in trash while trying to show how cute and well-groomed they are.>If there is something you can do with 70s style brown tile floor and wood veneer walls, it's not whatever he is doing with it.Unrelated to thread, but both could work just fine on their own. Replace the tiles with warm light colored wood laminate, keep the wooden walls, replace the old door with one in the same wood color as the walls and go for a contemporary scandi or japandi style room interior look. The other option would be removing the wood veneer walls, paint the walls all white and go with more traditional furnishing to match the vibe of the tiles. It has potential, but both together looks abysmal.
>>10942091This is probably the ugliest coord I’ve ever seen, there’s not even one redeeming quality especially with that ugly mess of an Amazon quality dress.
>>10942234Something I've noticed in the ita thread is that there are a disproportionate amount of people living in filth/garbage mountains/hoarder/etc, with not a lot (or any) visible clear space on the floor. Random objects placed on any surface, horribly stained pillow cases, even a stray sex toy once, empty instant noodle cups and other food containers on tables or piles.I don't see this with decently dressed lolitas, or at least if they're living in filth they're hiding it well enough.When I still visited the fb lolita sewing groups there were multiple people with wall to wall carpeting, always in lighter too, with stains on it and random small objects scattered around the room on the floor. There has to be some sort of connection between being an ita and living like that.
>>10941347i feel genuinely schizophrenic trying to comprehend the thought process, actual psyop. coquette has single handedly increased the number of itas in this world by a ten fold
>>10942078idc abt either of those but the dress on the bottom right makes me want to kms
>>10942076#jiraikei its not jirai#egl its not lolita#tenshikaiwai ain't that either >>10942078some jsks can 100% be worn without a blouse, not many though, the ones on the left would look ok. but she seems fucking retarded>>10942248both the right side ones are ugly as fuck>>10942140it looks so good otherwise, its a bit of a nitpick but seriously its not hard to fucking learn to tie a bow
>>10942091i got aids looking at this, thanks
>>10942306
>>10942307
>>10942309
>>10942310
>>10942306nitpick. this is fine as a casual coord.
>>10942135I might be alone in this but I do like the headpiece a lot, and would it look even better with a yellow bow instead of a blue one, but the shoes and socks? Burn.>>10942306Nitpick>>10942310There is no way of knowing if this is good or not with just a selfie
>>10942325I totally agree with all of this. None of these were ita lmfao. I think we are running out of people to post…>>10942306>>10942288I think you’ve never been in a comm or seen a lolita outside of instagram if these look ita to you.
>>10942329Are u blind >>10942288Is a fucking ita
>>10942250>>10942140This cheap-chab managed to make the Elizabeth op look so cheap, it’s embarrassing to look at
>>10942329Nta but yes, Western comms are 95% ita.>>10942306This might've got a pass 15 years ago when it was hard to get actual lolita accessories but why in 2024 would you wear AP with a turtleneck and shoes that look like they came from TJ Maxx?>>10942288i can see how she's going for a kera maniax type of thing but the normie cardigan and sweet accessories throws it off. it would be better to have the OP be the one sweet thing and have everything else be punk.
>>10942376it was not hard to get actual lolita accessories 15 years ago. By then a lot of jpn brands sold directly to overseas (for those who didn't there have always been shopping services), and there were lower budget options from chinese brands as well available through reseller websites. Right now there are more stores, more variety and more low budget options but it was already pretty easy back then.Do you consider this >>10942306 ita? I don't think it's a good outfit but an outfit not being good doesn't automatically mean it's ita. Unless you cringe with second hand embarrassment when you look at her outfit, but then you'd be cringing all day long because most lolitas have days where they make do or make changes to their outfit for the sake of comfort/the weather. People who always look very polished are quite rare outside and inside of japan. I've seen plenty of pictures of japanese lolitas wearing shoes and/or outerwear that wasn't lolita with their outfit.
>>10942376qutieland is a large reseller that has existed since at least 2007 and sold 20+ chinese lolita brands, I think they went out of business in 2011. I remember buying stuff there, it was really cheap compared to what I considered regular prices.
>>10942348>inspiredwhy are you posting this here if it's just an inspired outfit?
>>10942348>>10942372these are just normal jirai coords.
>>10942287That bag is putrid. How any one could see it and think it’s a good fit for any outfit is beyond me.
>>10942390what the fuck are you talking about? neither of these are jirai either. maybe the second one could be, but its still shit jirai coord
>>10942385There is nothing lolita there
I'm scared
>>10942442Reasonable but downloading it is pretty gay
>>10942394Cheap normie "kawaii" bag. Lots of people seem to skip on buying coord-appropriate bags, but this can easily be fixed by simply not including the bag in the photo.
>>10941694I’ve taken to hiking up an too big/too long dress local tailors refused to alter- I hide the roll of fabric under a bustier
just came across this horror on fb marketplace
is not wearing a petticoat that much of a crime >>10940601this guy scares the shit out of me. some men look good in ita but this just feels like a fetish. >>10941371 looks not too good but he isn't scary.>>10942307she looks fine, she's just big.
>>10942577Uh I think you need some clarification on the terms.Lolita fashion is self explanatory I hope."Ita" is not short for lolita, ita means "so bad it hurts to look at". The ita thread is the place where people post lolita fashion disasters.
>>10942578i meant to type lolita not ita. "this guy scares the shit out of me. some men look good in LOLita but this just feels like a fetish. ", my brain is just dead
also i only ended up here because i was looking for an itabag threadthere haven't been itabags threads for like over a year am i meant to go post about itabags on fucking reddit or something
>>10942577>is not wearing a petticoat that much of a crime it will always look bad in photos. these dresses are built to hold a petti, without one they'll look wrong.>she looks fine, she's just big>shitty children's bunny ear headband>unironed skirt>DDLG-tier print>clashing pink hairif you stick this coord on a thinner person it'll still look like a mess
>>10942582Yes. No one cares about your ugly itabags
>>10942581Imo the large majority of men don't look good in lolita, probably do use it to engage in their fetish, and also hide it poorly because so many of them emanate the same fetishist vibes. But as long as they don't break any major rules mods are fine with letting them stay in our communities.I've only seen that guy here, I hope he's only on tiktok and not in someone's local comm.
>>10942306>>10942382>Do you consider this ita?The girl is thin and pretty, but the outfit is just bad, lolita or not. The empire waist and straps clash with the turtleneck, making her look like she has linebacker shoulders. The shoes look really bad aswell, it reminds me of these landwhales that have to wear ballerina flats because their feet are too fat to fit into shoes with straps. The headband is too plain for lolita, at least for a printed dress. I also find these kind of headbands ugly but it's more about subjective tastes. Also this random bright orange pin is completely out of place.If some fatty, or even just a chubster would have wore the same outfit, she would have been ripped to shreds. You can be thin and still dress badly.But again, at least the girl is happy in this picture, so who cares. At least she's having a good time.>>10942288The shoehorned black looks like shit sorry. The girl is very pretty though, and she has potential. It feels like she wears mostly black and tried to wear pastel for a change but didn't have any matching accessories, so she had to use her black ones. Bad color coordination, but we can't always be dressed perfect.At least none of these girls look like freaks unlike the gross moids posted in this thread. >>10942310Smells like venda posting. I dig the aesthetics of this pic. Looks so cool.>>10942566what the hell
>>10942372Not the worst attempt I've seen at a coord. Definitley not lolita, but with some altercations it could be a bit nice.
>>10942604buddy i'll show you an altercation
>>10942604its not even lolita are you mentally retarded?what is it with retards in ita threads not fucking knowing what lolita is? if you dont understand lolita then dont participate. how fucking hard is iti wouldnt go into a gyaru thread, post a jirai kei girl, and call it a half decent attempt at gyaru when neither styles have anything to do with eachother
>>10942592I remember watching a video of his that said he doesn’t interact with the community and just likes the style, he thinks its too toxic.
>>10942631funny, he himself is very toxic. The general lolita community is a bit too soft on people.
>>10942307why is her foot trying to escape her shoes? I'm honestly scared
>>10942693was this tagged as lolita? it looks fine as a general jfash coord if we aren't considering it lolita, honestly. a shame if it was tagged as such, though.
>>10942699this ita tagged it as «Lolita» and wore it for the ILD
>>10942711where the hell are people getting the idea that this is remotely lolita
>>10942712ask her directly
>>10942693This girl manages the Uncanny Runway Instagram. She likely tries to gain attention by featuring attractive people; as her taste in fashion doesn’t seem to stand out she needs them. It’s rather pitiful.
>>10942689edema? the one foot looks much more swollen than the other.
>>10941818thanks for confirming a few things we all knew but seagulls desperately wanted to cope about- that /cgl/ is a wildly transphobic community just like the rest of 4chan - that a lot of ita callouts are based on perceived conventional attractiveness (in her case, her inability to pass) not the quality of the coord - if she was a cute smol asian girl, or even an average sized 5/10 white girl nobody would care, but because she's an unpassable tranny she's an ita- that nobody should take this place seriously because of the above two, and there's plenty of legitimate concrit outside cglalso statistically being a transphobe is one of the most male-brained things in existence and i've believed for a long time at least 50% of active cgl posters are straight cis men here to fap to cute asian women (and let's be real, there IS overlap between our "lolita" and the other kind of "loli") in frilly dresses and get mad when their fap sessions are interrupted by a fattie or tranny they can't fap to.
>>10941818props for trying but i don't think any of this was ever in question.>that a lot of ita callouts are based on perceived conventional attractiveness (in her case, her inability to pass)more people should try putting stickers over their face in coord photos and see if they get posted here. they probably wouldn't.your last point, though? statistically women dislike being social outsiders and disagreeing with the group. with lolita being mostly full of lefty women, most are not going to openly be a terf at meets, or they risk being banned or at least ostracized from their comm. instead, they write it all here or on the farms. speaking with lolitas in private confirms this, honestly.
>>10942739replied to the wrong post like a retard, meant to respond to >>10942738
>>10942738ayrt, just clarifying in case the point didn't come through. I do not care that person is trans or not, I do not care if she is conventionally attractive or not. Anon is talking as if being ugly is a personal failing and a sign of laziness, as if putting in the work (eyebrow grooming, makeup) would make her look conventionally attractive or at least considerably better. I'm not saying it wouldn't make a difference but it wouldn't do as much as anon think it will. Young people today are so brainwashed by people on social media and youtube using filters (especially in makeup tutorial videos that show a transformation) that they think makeup can do what only plastic surgery can change.Being ugly is not a personal failing and it doesn't make you ita. Being male doesn't make you ita. Her outfit isn't good but it's not ita level bad. It feels like a vendetta post.>if she was a cute smol asian girl,nobody would even think about posting that picture here if that was the case.>i've believed for a long time at least 50% of active cgl posters are straight cis men here to fap to cute asian women (and let's be real, there IS overlap between our "lolita" and the other kind of "loli") in frilly dresses and get mad when their fap sessions are interrupted by a fattie or tranny they can't fap to.I'm not sure it's 50% but there are too many coomers in the lolita threads trying to start drama. Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes a little more subtle.I still think there good sides to CGL though. On one hand because the anonymity means there are no social consequences some people are going to be assholes because that's who they are deep down, on the other hand the anonymity provides a few benefits like being able to ask stupid questions without any real consequences, giving honest reviews on brands owned by fellow lolitas without starting drama, the image dumps, threads don't get removed or unapproved because the topic isn't important enough, etc.
>>10942739>with lolita being mostly full of lefty women, most are not going to openly be a terf at meets, or they risk being banned or at least ostracized from their comm. instead, they write it all here or on the farms. speaking with lolitas in private confirms this, honestly.nayrt, I think a lot of lolitas simply don't care but not caring is also unacceptable in a world where you have to be for or against trans rights activism. Even the terfs tend to be leftists though (or at least left off center), they just don't agree on trans issues and tend to disapprove certain approaches to feminism. So it's not like there is a large underbelly of right wing lolitas hiding in anonymous spaces.
>>10942739That's the thing - there's always going to be outliers in every sub-population, but you kind of buried the lede - most lolitas are VERY far left-women, and lefty women (and honestly, a majority of moderate and a decent chunk of conservative women) genuinely, honestly believe the vast majority of trans women are women and should be treated as such. Sure there's a few who are quietly made uncomfortable by the clearly unpassing and unfeminine trans woman or whatever, and sometimes there's a fetishist clearly using the trans label as an out (it's less common than cgl would have you believe) but as long as she's not also creepy and tries to be a positive influence, the average member of a comm will gladly accept her and treat her like just another lolita. >nayrt, I think a lot of lolitas simply don't care but not caring is also unacceptable in a world where you have to be for or against trans rights activism. Even the terfs tend to be leftists though (or at least left off center), they just don't agree on trans issues and tend to disapprove certain approaches to feminism. So it's not like there is a large underbelly of right wing lolitas hiding in anonymous spaces.This just isn't true. Actual TERFs (as opposed to conservative women appropriating the label) are extremely rare in general, even more so in lolita, and at most there might be concerns if a tranny is acting conspicuously masculine or fetishy. Your average lolita comm is D+95 and a good chunk of them are full on communists and actually cried SJW tears when Trump won again. There's at least 3-5 theyfabs in every comm (and there's at least 1 transmasc in every comm - why a transmasc would be wearing the most girly fashion on the planet I don't understand, but it's a thing). Also in my experience, the vast majority of TERFs would drop the whole thing if they shitcanned self-ID and have no actual issue with tranners who make the effort to blend in.
>>10942751>Actual TERFs (as opposed to conservative women appropriating the label) are extremely rare in general, even more so in lolitasure, I don't disagree. They are radical feminists after all.>Your average lolita comm is D+95I have no clue what that means and a quick google search didn't help either>a good chunk of them are full on communistsI'm assuming you're either exaggerating for comic effect or don't know what communism is>cried SJW tears when Trump won again>There's at least 3-5 theyfabs in every comm >there's at least 1 transmasc in every commThat all sounds very american, which explains the communism comment.
>>10942738there's literally nothing wrong with being transphobic. I don't want to hang out with ugly ass men with nasally fake anime girl voices. I don't want to be associated with them in public. I don't want to talk about lolita with them or befriend them. Shockingly, being attractive and also being a woman is valued in one of the most hyperfeminine women's fashion styles. /cgl/ isn't particularly transphobic, you just don't hear opinions like this anywhere else because anyone who thinks this way either keeps quiet so they don't get kicked out or leaves.
>>10942762Weird how there's never, ever enough transphobic lolitas to sustain a comm so they have to keep quiet in order to have one. But surely muh silent majority will surely get their no trannies allowed comm anyday now. Also actual women don't value conventional attractiveness that much in other women (and the ones that do are the ones that end up with zero friends because they're quickly revealed as Regina Georges), but like I said, a good chunk of this board is coomer men who see petite lolitas as the closet they'll ever come to their actual fantasy (sadly, as much as lolita was intended to essentially reclaim and subvert "childlike innocence/femininity" from the pedophilic sexualized Japanese male gaze, it's fundamentally the same thing as minorities reclaiming slurs - the original meaning never goes away entirely). Anyway, I'd say go back to /jp/ but the reason why you people have a home here is because the actual women on /cgl/ are pick-mes who love the attention from male incels.
>>10942765there's plenty of women-only lolita comms, actually... they're just not public. I agree with you about coomer men ruining this board though and it sucks. You can tell 99% of actual lolitas left because of the billion cosplay ass and boobs threads. Those types are more likely to be homos who think the dude wearing a skirt makes it not gay, or trans themselves, than tranny haters though (or they're all of the above, which is always funny). How can you see the way men fetishize lolita fashion, their pedophilic fantasies about girlhood, and not correlate it with the men who choose to actually go a step further and wear the clothes? Not like every one of them is a boomer sissy tier fetishist but they all have some very strange and misogynistic ideas about the performance of femininity in my experience
>>10942762nayrt but you don't have to be transphobic to decide you don't want to be friends or even hang out with certain people in your comm. There are people I do not want to be friends with in my comm and that's fine, I'm sure the other comm members also don't necessarily want to be friends with everyone. There are two creepy guys in my comm and most people just ignore them. It works. These people are not transphobic, they just don't want to hang out with creepy guys.And sure, it's definitely nice if you're pretty but I sure hope you don't pick your friends based on how conventionally attractive they are.>>10942765>surely muh silent majority will surely get their no trannies allowed comm anyday now.I think most people have the same exact opinion as I do; I would love for my local comm to be free from creeps/fetishists but I don't mind if there are trans people in the comm.>sadly, as much as lolita was intended to essentially reclaim and subvert "childlike innocence/femininity" from the pedophilic sexualized Japanese male gazeThe large majority of japanese men dislike lolita fashion and don't want to date anyone who wears it.This is not the point of lolita fashion though, it doesn't center men or the male gaze at all. The point is dressing for yourself and ignoring what society thinks you should wear. That there are men who sexualize lolitas does not mean lolitas are not successful in ignoring what society (and specifically men) wants them to wear. It doesn't matter what it is, if it exists then there are some men who sexualize/fetishize it.>the actual women on /cgl/ are pick-mes who love the attention from male incels.why do you think this? Or is this a joke I'm not getting? As far as I've seen is that most women here don't want men participating in lolita and other j-fashion threads.
>>10942769>there's plenty of women-only lolita comms, actually... they're just not public.nayrt, I wouldn't call that a comm. imo comms are at least semi public in nature and mods don't prevent anyone from entering if they don't have a good reason to keep them away. A private group is more like a friend group, usually an off shoot from an actual local comm where all of these people met each other and decided they wanted to hang out without any of the people they didn't like.>You can tell 99% of actual lolitas left because of the billion cosplay ass and boobs threads.I hide those threads as soon as they pop up, I suggest all of the other lolitas do the same thing.
>>10942765>sadly, as much as lolita was intended to essentially reclaim and subvert "childlike innocence/femininity"No it wasn't. This is western feminist fantasy. It's literally just cute clothes.
>>10942769>there's plenty of women-only lolita comms, actually... they're just not public. They're usually like 5 or 6 people out of the original comm of 40-50, and they never last long. I had a TERF phase and I got invited to one, it was pretty lame. We had a few sporadic meets then life happened and we either drifted back to the original comm or out of lolita entirely. no-trannies comms just don't have the numbers, and never will. Even in 2010 when it was more mainstream to be transphobic, the tide was clearly shifting in one direction. >How can you see the way men fetishize lolita fashion, their pedophilic fantasies about girlhood, and not correlate it with the men who choose to actually go a step further and wear the clothes? Not like every one of them is a boomer sissy tier fetishist but they all have some very strange and misogynistic ideas about the performance of femininity in my experienceI hate to get all "no true scotstranny" up in here but I've never experienced that from any trans woman, in or out of lolita. The weird sissy fetishists, yeah, but they're basically never living full time as women, or are even on gender affirming medication. At worst, lolita is (over?)compensating for years of repressed femininity for actual trannies and they're a bit more mentally ill than the average lolita (which admittedly is pretty mentally ill) but are genuinely pretty normal and agreeable. They're more likely to be genuinely ita depending on where they are in transition though (because they're learning how to dress as women AND compensate for masculine features WHILE in lolita - basically something like your first video game being a soulsborne or something).
Do we have to do this every ita thread? Can we just stay on topic for once? Everything there is to say has been said already.
>>10942770>This is not the point of lolita fashion though, it doesn't center men or the male gaze at all. The point is dressing for yourself and ignoring what society thinks you should wear. That there are men who sexualize lolitas does not mean lolitas are not successful in ignoring what society (and specifically men) wants them to wear. It doesn't matter what it is, if it exists then there are some men who sexualize/fetishize it.I'm aware of this, but lolita emerged at a time when there was a huge push for both childlike/kawaii *and* sexually available depictions of girls. Lolita basically stripped out the male gaze and made it about the self-expression of girls and women ourselves, which was a big win, but at the end of the day, we're still dressing like Victorian preteens and there are quite a few men who go for that. You're correct in that it's an unwinnable game though - you can't escape the male gaze with what you wear.
>>10942775It's not going to go away until seagulls stop posting decent/slightly below average coords as ita just because the person wearing the coord is trans.
>>10942773nayrt, I've been around for a long time and this is the first time I've heard the idea that lolita was supposedly about reclaiming childlike innocence from the pedophilic japanese male gaze.The common shared narrative in the western comm is that lolita is a feminist fashion centered around young women postponing "real adulthood" and the trajectory (job, get married, become pregnant, become housewife trapped in a transactional and loveless marriage) they were expected to follow.I don't like to blindly believe things just because a lot of people say that it's true, especially when I could not find anything in japanese blogs and articles that completely overlapped with this narrative.What I did find is in Kuniko Kato's old blogs. She talks about "dressing for oneself" and rejecting societal expectations. Some japanese articles about lolita fashion repeat those same things word for word. One of the articles mentioned that there are commonalities within the lolita community, specifically a shared ideology. But that's all I ever found. What I'm sure of is that this means that for a lot of people it's more than just cute clothes, and that it is counter cultural, which should not be a surprise since that's usually associated with alternative fashions. The question that remains is whether you consider women rejecting patriarchal norms to be "feminist" or not. That's up to you do decide for yourself. If lolita fashion has no more significance to you than just being cute clothes that's completely fine and I'm sure you're not the only one who sees it that way. But you can't decide that is what it is, or should be, to other people as well.
>>10942776how far back are we going with this regarding the origin of lolita fashion? Childlike, innocent, cute and sexually available depictions of girls in japan go back as far as (if not further than) the 1960s, which far predates the start of lolita fashion imo. It is an ever present backdrop in japanese society.>Victorian preteenswhy do you think this? It may seem self evident to you, but all of the arguments I've heard so far about lolita being based on historical childrens clothes were based on misconceptions.
>>10942769>plenty of women-only lolita comms>just not publicok so proving >>10942765 's point of terfs needing to keep quiet in order to have one, then
>>10942780Correct, lolita is in part a reaction to that backdrop. Not as explicitly stated compared to the more well-known idea of reacting against social expectations, but it provides context as to why a feminist backlash took the form of "cute clothes that just happened to indicate the wearer was sexually unavailable"
>>10942738How many times does it need to be said? Hair, makeup, and weight all affect the appearance of your coord. If you don’t look good in the picture and only want to show off the clothes, use a face sticker. mUh tRaNsPhoBiA and yet there are multiple biologically male lolitas who rarely get posted here because they put actual EFFORT into their physical appearances and aren’t fucking annoying either.
>>10941744>>10941760>>10942738>>10942765>>10942777You have dug yourself an enormous hole. You have forced your way forward into a woman's space, demanding pampering and spoon feeding. You reek of masculine energy, your aggressive and disgusting sentiments of lolita fashion are deplorable. Anyone who interacts with you can see through your ugly shell. Nothing about you will ever be feminine. You wear women's clothing as an attempt to skin walk them, you want to reclaim your "missing girlhood" like a pedophile. As if wearing clothes for girls would ever change the fact that you have a disgusting scrotum between your legs. You will never be a woman, you will never fit in to women's spaces. You can't let women have a group to wear women's clothes, you always have to get your cock involved where it doesn't belong, and that's more pathetic than anything you've said so far.>(and let's be real, there IS overlap between our "lolita" and the other kind of "loli") in frilly dresses and get mad when their fap sessions are interrupted by a fattie or tranny they can't fap to.Do you know how disgusting you sound? This is how you're perceived. You aren't part of lolita fashion, you're a faggot male brained loser.
>>10942786"everyone who disagrees with me is a man"
>>10942786literally who even is this in the post? Do you know them? It feels weirdly personal.
>>10942790Did you even read his posts? No, I don't know him. Just done with trannies in lolita.
>>10942790Transphobes take everything personally. Their whole ideology revolves around the idea that someone just existing is hurting them.
>>10942786>everyone who disagrees with me is a man and the same person>you want to reclaim your "missing girlhood" like a pedophilesave that energy for actual fetishists in our comms.
>>10942792Geg call a TiM just what he is : a bioligical male and see who takes shit personallyI don't care that trans identifiying people, I simply don't want to be bullied by them and their allies into caving to their deluded fantasies.Most of us don't even mind the gay ones that actually pass, at least they're not a danger to women, and are the one gettng killed by scrotes when they discover that they're biological males.Honestly the problem as much the trannies than the handmaidens that sugarcoat them and will go on insane lenghts to defend them. And also aggressively push their beliefs on everyone else.Again, I think >>10941744 should be sticking with plus size tea lenght meta dresses. They would fit his size like a charm and he would look less like a creep wearing children-sized clothing.
>>10942797The funny thing is that given the demographic and ideological leanings of at least the western lolita community, a transphobe posting online in a lolita space is *very* likely to be a man. And even terfy women are WAY more offputting than all but the weirdest most unpassing trannies
>>10942782It's also proving that there just aren't that many. If say, 20-30% of lolitas were making their alternative no troon allowed comms and not showing up to mainstream comms, people would *notice*. Even in 2010, the majority of English-speaking lolitas leaned pro-trans, but it was more like 65-35 anti-trans lolitas weren't run out of comms the way they are now.
>>10942803I don't care who is in my comm if they dress well and aren't creeps but even asking people to dress well these days seems like a stretch. I do not care about gender or whatever can we just focus on looking well put together?
>>10942776I don't think the creator of Baby, a man, or Mana, a man, had "stripping out the male gaze" in mind when they were creating the fashion
>>10942779That's interesting. You're right, I shouldn't try to define it for others, but I think the western feminist angle kind of appropriates it and isn't accurate to the time and place. Fashion evolves, the proto lolitas may have just wanted to look cute, and it slowly turned into a more alternative fashion with a more shared mindset.
It’s such a shame that almost everything on Closet of Frills these days looks like this. I know the group has been majorly dead for a while, but good God.
>>10942825Another example. I know this girl is a chronic ita, but how could you not realize that none of the items or colors match each other? This outfit is genuine eye cancer.
>>10942795the dress clearly doesnt fit her at all. christ>>10942825not even just ita, shitty outfit in general. how do you even go outside like this >>10942827she likely heard someone say "purple and green actually can go together, the colour wheel says so" and ran with it. corset isnt even worn properly, shoes, tights and accessories don't match whatsoever. just bad all round
>>10942824ayrt, I don't really know where the common western lolita narrative came from considering I have not seen anything from japanese sources that completely matches it. It could have originated with an interview of japanese lolitas, or some research article written about lolita by someone who may not be in the fashion itself. I think the common western narrative is interpreting it from an outside perspective and is filling in the details based on western feminist values.Old video interviews with japanese lolitas (2000~2003) often give some attention to what the parents/family/social circle of these lolitas thinks about them wearing lolita. They're usually disapproving, sometimes to the point where the lolitas have to hide it and change clothes in a public toilet. Whatever their motivation is for wearing lolita, it's clear it means so much to them that they were willing to disobey their parents and upset their social circle by wearing it anyway. It's a bit rebellious. The lolitas that were interviewed were usually between 17 and 22.I remember seeing one interview with a lolita and her mother who supported her hobby by helping her with her sewing. The mother seemed genuinely happy with her daughter's interest, which was quite refreshing to see considering parents were usually disapproving.I don't know how exactly lolita fashion was seen by non lolitas in the 90s, perhaps it wasn't even big enough to get any media attention. Japan has had a noticeable feminist/women's rights movement since the 70s but because it's a completely different culture and history it's not the same as, for example, the feminist movements seen in the US. Topics surrounding japanese women's rights did appear frequently in 90s japanese media so it was something the public was aware of.
>>10942827this lady is proof that "if it was on a asian girl you wouldn't think it was ita" is wrong.
>>10942803>If say, 20-30% of lolitas were making their alternative no troon allowed comms and not showing up to mainstream comms, people would *notice*.lmao, so 20-30% of lolitas you don't even know exist? I know you're mentally ill but for fucks sake make it make sense.
>>10942838The fat cancels out the asian or somethingIt's sad because I thought her fashion sense was improving, she made a few decent coords, but I see that she reverted to perma-itadom
>>10942850If a third of the local comm vanished overnight, people would absolutely notice. Most transphobic lolitas are self-admitted friendless lonelitas, though. The rest of us are just sick of hearing the trannysperging.
>>10942896This has happened, though. A far greater amount of lolitas don't join their local comm or participate than in the past. It's not just them disappearing overnight, it's new people avoiding the comms too. Most American comms are stagnant or have fewer people than 10 years ago.
