Why do people use these?Is it just a cultural cope?I feel like as a species we kind of nailed it with the spork so why all of this pageantry?>inb4 it forces you to slow downYeah, so does a disability.
>>20424993They're not destructive to foods like wontons, sushi. Other than that I don't really know if there's an advantage. They're pretty good for noodles but you still need a spoon for broth so you might as well use a fork. I still have no idea how the fuck you eat rice with them. I dunno anon, maybe you have this one.
>>20425015>They're not destructive to foods like wontons, sushi.Is that crucial? I guess that would have a pretty subjective answer but even so I thought sushi was meant to be eaten with your hands.Honestly I was kind of hoping I would be proven wrong. I agree about the rice that seems downright sysiphian
>>20425028I don't really know, i would eat wontons with my hands. Sushi i don't think so but i think you could be strategic with a fork. I'm not sure what other foods would be better eaten with chopsticks. I must admit I use them as a matter of principle. The japanese are well established as traditional beyond autism and well into total retardation, you really may have a point lol. If you've heard about the no a/c/heat in their schools, windows always open, don't wear jackets no matter how cold it is, etc that seems to point in the same direction.
>>20425041>If you've heard about the no a/c/heat in their schools, windows always open, don't wear jackets no matter how cold it is,I did not know about this! That is hilarious. I know that they still use fax machines but I didn't know that they let schoolchildren die from exposure
>>20424993They're fun and you can clack them.>>20425041You are meant to eat sushi with your fingers.
>>20425028american style sushi with all the sauces and shit piled on them need chopsticks or your hand will be all messy. can't use a fork to stab it or it falls apart. You could scoop it with a fork but then you can't dunk it in soy sauce without it falling off your fork and then falling apart. I can't think of any other use than eating westernized sushi
>>20425065i bet they pull out forks whenever there aren't any americans watching. it's an in joke, hundreds of years old>round eye man think we eat with toothpick rahmaoooo rook him eat his rice
>>20425077If it's already precisely smothered in sauce and shit there's no sense in dunking it in soy sauce.
>>20425077>american style sushi with all the sauces and shit piled on themWith all due respect I don't think that should count as food for the same reason those burgers with nelted cheese drizzled onto them should not count. It is an artificially created and specifically american problem.
>>20425065Honestly the most satisfying answer I have received thus far
>>20425089Listen jack, you asked a question, got an answer, and then you want to argue with the only valid answer you are going to get. Why don't you go let all the burgers know they are doing it wrong. I'm sure that will work.The point stands, eating messy sushi is their only purpose. Pretty sure the europoorans are just as bad with their sushi as amerifats too
>>20425015>They're not destructive to foods like wontons, sushiPick them with your hands then, dumbo>Inb4 "but le wontons are hot!!!"Let them cool off, fatty
>>20425058You are weak and pathetic if you can't handle not having A/C in the summer. Literal children have better homeostasis skills than you, you fucking loser.>>20425089>American website>get American responses it's that simple. Of course the discussion would gravitate towards their idea of sushi. OP didn't specify why do Japanese people use them.
>>20425096>Pretty sure the europoorans are just as bad with their sushi as amerifats tooI agree with this wholeheartedly but I still maintain my initial stance that adding sauce to sauce and then worrying about the foods structural integrity is a bit silly.
>>20425099I can handle it, it just sucks and I don't want to do it. It feels bad.
>>20425110I dare you to go without it, become a stronger and more disciplined person. We really don't need many of the things we assume that we do. Maybe the chopsticks thing makes more sense now
>>20425099>OP didn't specify why do Japanese people use them.No one here is speaking moon runes. It's probably to eat bugs or do samurai shit with and that's just not compatible with western values
>>20425114>I dare you to go without itI already have, that's how I know that it is unpleasant.>We really don't need many of the things we assume that we do.I know. I never said I needed it.
>>20425097>>20425041yeah i do, i was really trying to be charitable but i think the niponbros are gonna have to fight their own battles here
>>20424993>Why do people use these?tism.>Is it just a cultural cope?culture itself is a cope.>I feel like as a species we kind of nailed it with the spork so why all of this pageantry?tism.
low dexterity thread
>>20425099after looking at their weather i agree about summers, 70's-80's is tolerable without ac, but windows open in the middle of winter without a jacket is batshit insane
>>20425141>>20425143So a mixture or middleground between autism and narcissism?
>>20425145In a first world country everything should be room temperature and everything should be a room. No more hallways. No more foyers. No weather at all. Inclement? Try mild, forever.
>>20425158>crank HVAC year round>blow through a shit ton of natural resources because "it's a little uncomfy :("I really do hope the ayylmaos erase us from the history logs
>>20425173Well then they should make A/C that improves the enviroment.
>>20425150yep.it's just karening.
>>20425099this nigga can't afford a/c.
>>20424993Sounds like a skill issue.You probably have the dexterity of a retard.Maybe /fit/ can help you out.
I only use them for dipping sushi in spicy mayo
>>20424993eat greasy food like potato chips without greasing your fingers or anything
>>20425191No, it's more that I'm lazy and also it is an inferior utensil. Using a tool when you know that a faster tool exists causes me to feel myself dying in realtime. Same with posing for pictures.
>>20425196This is a poorly thought out plan for hygeine. Essentially you would be using the chopsticks in order to avoid washing your hands, but that implies not washing your face/lips which will be exposed to the grease unless you eat in an incredibly contrived and performative manner (inefficient). So really what you're saying is that you don't mind going around with a greasy face which defeats the purpose of keeping your hands clean. And if you do wash your face then you may as well have used your hands to eat the chips since you are already going to be near the sink anyway.
>>20425015>>20425041>>20425077>>20425194I think that sushi is the only correct answer because even though you are "supposed to" eat sushi with your hands (Japanese bullshit) using chopsticks for anything else is stupid (Japanese bullshit) so ig those two things would cancel each other out
>>20425065>You are meant to eat sushi with your fingers.Explain what nigiri means and then think about why that is different from regular sushi.
Japanese rice is fine with chopsticks because it's sticky, not really a problem to grab a bunch of rice.It's also easy to pick at side dishes in tiny plates and bowls with chopsticks.>>20425211What about the million situations where you would want to use your hands while snacking, like playing games or rubbing your girlfriend's tits while you're watching a movie.
>>20425211Also why the fuck would you get a greasy face from snacking, at most it'd just be your lips which you can just wipe with a tissue.
>>20424993Hmm. Americans can even use a knife. It's a 'cultural thing'. The culture being one of toddlers.
>>20424993>Why do people use these?They're finger extensions, they allow more precise grabbing which means your hands aren't getting dirty.I wouldn't eat a whole chicken with them but yeah they have their uses, I usually eat chips with them.
>>20424993It was the Buddha or maybe Lao Tse who decried that knives & forks--weapons, essentially--had no place among the civilized, and thus no place in the dining hall.
>>20425380Or you could kill yourself, that'd be pretty neat.
>>20424993>we kind of nailed it with the sporkholy bait
>>20424993I've noticed people who bitch about chopsticks typically suck dick at using them.Diagnosis: skill issueSolution: git gudOP status: Total Faggot
>>20425397>like playing games or rubbing your girlfriend's tits while you're watching a movie.Seems impractical. I would never multitask in those situations. Seems weird to be groping around while eating cheetos. And again, you will be kissing cheetos into your gf
>>20425419>which you can just wipe with a tissue.Let's not be disingenuous here. Cleaning would require moisture.
>>20425548That is a cool piece of history but also a fundamentally paranoid and flawed argument
>>20425702Okay, but let's not deflect this defensibly. Imagine if you will simeone competent with chopsticks that has realised that they are fucking stupid. Like a double-necked guitar.
>>20424993ancient chinas culture sphere showing it's scars. they are flexible and easy to make if your in a pinch but are just a gimmick at the table outside of the orient
>>20425015>I still have no idea how the fuck you eat rice with them.High quality asian rice sticks together and is easy to eat with chopsticks.
they are fun to use. They stimulate different parts of the brain than a fork.
Chinese food is generally chopped up into fine bits that are ideal for being picked up by chop sticks. You look like a child eating with a fork or spoon while everyone around you eats with the proper utensil. Your idea of fine dining seems to be Panda Express, so eat however you want.
>>20426559>and easy to make if your in a pinchOkay excellent point! I assume you mean this in a "I am in the middle of the forest without a fork" situation, yes?
>>20426583What makes it "proper"? Do you hold a third-person perspective of yourself whilst eating at all times?I get what you mean though, whenever I ask for a fork in an upscale restaurant they also seem to do so berudgingly.They still do it though.
>>20426576>call of duty makes me smarter because it increases my reaction time
I'm East Asian and I ask for the fork every time.Meanwhile my dad eats literally everything with chopsticks. For example he eats fried chicken (actual bone-in drumsticks and thighs), potato chips and ice cream with chopsticks. He would drink water with chopsticks if he could
>>20426583If the food is chopped into fine bits why not just eat with a spoon
>>20424993YES! It says right on the package>"Enjoy your Chinese food with chopsticks par of our Glonious history and cultualNow you can pick up ANYTHING!
>>20426623>He would drink water with chopsticks if he couldkek
>>20426586yep exactly, you wouldnt even need a knife to make them and it's better than potentially dirty hands on your food
>>20425085>precisely smotheredGIWTWM
>>20426643Yup. That checks out. You have convinced me. Chopsticks are survivalist cutlery.
>>20426674So in a way using them outside of the wilderness is a bit like eating with a hunting knife.
>>20425097dis nigga be eatin' COLD Wontons an' sheeeit!I'm beginning to suspect that OP's secret shame is that he has the dexterity of an 4 year סld.I'd like to see how other primates are able to use them. They simply aren't that hard.I'll bet he grabs his fork with a full fist and shovels the slop in.
>>20426682id think more like if you found a stick shaped like pic related and cleaned it up a little bit so you dont eat any pathogens that are on your knife and hands. washing hands is a modern habit
>>20426690That wasn't me. I would just scoop it with a spoon or spear it with a fork.
>>20426690>They simply aren't that hardNot the point of the thread at all though, the point is if you gave a person that has never seen any kind of eating utensil before, chopsticks would be bottom of the list for being intuitive.
>>20426722actually the point of the thread was to post bait
>>20426728Things aren't bait just because they exceed your reading comprehension
>>20425548Con fu tse.They,(knives and forks,) were considered implements of violence, and not to be used when performing a sustainitive act,(eating)kind of ironic now when you consider how a lot of Chinese food is prepared,(with as much pain to the animal as possible.)Truly, the Maoist revolution and the starvation that accompanied it,(again,) warped the chinese sense towards any compassion towards living things--especially if they were going to eat it.
I'm a Chinese-American and I eat with a fork, knife, and spoon. I'm not a barbarian like the Taiwanese.
>>20426602No, but it does improve your hand-eye coordination and your reaction time.You'll still never be faster than a cat, but you could be smarter.
>>20426766Based
>>20426722>checkedWell, I guess Chimps are halfway there. They use a single stick to get ants and termites....Did an extensive search and couldn't find one reference to monkeys, bonobos or gorillas using chopsticks.There must be some out there somewhere.
Forks for stabbingKnives for cuttingSpoons for scoopingChopsticks for holdingthey are the holy quad of utensils, each with it's own purpose. it's not a contest between them. yes you could argue that you can use your hands instead of chopsticks but that's the kind of savagery that made us use utensils in the first place to seperate us from beasts.
>>20426518lick your lips then wipe.that's like the whole point of napkins.
>>20426822I don't know anon, when I stab food with my fork it holds it pretty well.
>>20426828Napkins are a temporary solution and the residue should be causing you discomfort.
>>20426822No, I would argue that I could just use a fork instead of chopsticks
>>20426884>>20426855yes but chopsticks let you hold the food rather than peirce it
>>20426945Brings to bear the question: Why did tongs never make any kind of lasting cutlery impression? I mean, it's really not difficult to make some out of one piece of wood, but I suppose a defining factor which sets utensils from cooking and serving implements is that they are ALL comprised of singular pieces--even chopsticks.You never see utensils with hinges or springs, unless they are for folding when not in use.Even nutcrackers and crab crackers are considered implements and not really utensils, aren't they?
>>20426623>potato chipsthis is underrated and one of the best uses of chopsticks. keeps your fingers clean
Steamed soup dumplings are a dish that requires chopsticks, a spoon and a light touch. The dumplings are a small meatball wrapped in a thin wonton skin. The skin is like a bag holding the meat and also a lot of juice. You need to carefully pick up the dumpling and nibble it over a spoon that catches the drippings. A fork would break the skin and make a huge mess as well as waste all of the tasty meat broth.
>>20427061I remember a friend baiting me into biting one of these ĺ°Źç± ĺŚ… in half once. I never quite got the stain off my shirt.
Chopsticks are by far a superior utensil.>>20425202Eating isn't a fuckin race, what are you in bootcamp? Speed is the dumbest metric when it comes to eating. Chopsticks are more precise, don't need to damage the item it picks up, and can tear things apart one handed. They can also stab things if you really have to. And even then, chopsticks are at least as fast as a fork. >>20425211Exactly how retarded are you that you need to get grease and salt all over your face when you eat chips? Just your lips should dirty at most, then you just lick them and wipe with a napkin. Let me get this strait. Rather than using chopsticks to eat chips, you think it's more efficient to wash your dirty cum stained hands, eat like an animal, then wash your hands and face again to clean the residue off. Why not take a full fuckin shower since your monkey ass probably got chip crumbs in your shirt and pants.>>20425635OP is underaged. He uses his spork to eat his lunchables and sees no need for any other utensil.>>20425702Seriously. I gradually stopped using knives and forks once I learned to use chopsticks decades ago. They only thing I can think of right now that i use a fork for is cutting steak alongside a knife, and eating al dente spaghetti. >>20426722Less intuitive than using a miniature shovel and pitchfork sure. But that's because it is a more sophisticated instrument. It has a higher learning curve in exchange for a higher ceiling.
>>20427061Why are so many Asian "foods" designed to be eaten in the most disgusting way imaginable? Also fuck Italybecause spaghetti.
>>20427061A soda straw and a bamboo spoon is how you eat soup dumplings. Chopsticks are for hot pot, noodle dishes and non-soup dumplings.A knife and fork are for most of the world's dishes. Humanity has moved beyond a pair of fucking primative sticks fergawdsakes. Try to eat a ice cream or a flan with chopsicks fools.
>>20427593>my defining trait: chopsticks
>>20424993It only slows you down if you suck at it.
>>20426690I'm not OP, Obese-sissy>I'd like to see how other primates are able to use themYou tell us, Ape-man, using sticks to pick food and thinking you're "asian and shieeeeeeeet"
>>20427722Not the point not the question
>>20425015Have you ever encountered rice in your life? Did you realize rice clumps together?>>20425058It's true a lot of schools don't have AC in the hallways etc. but most classrooms will have AC. It's really just a cost-saving measure to be as stingy with heating/AC as possible that is perpetuated because Japanese just do shit because "it's always been done that way." Le fax machines in le offices is a retarded meme that is has been out of date for at least the last decadeI don't even know why I'm posting. Being "anti-chopsticks" is beyond retarded. It can pick up food without spearing it which is useful for some applications, and it can pick up smaller morsels of food than forks can. Every utensil has its own advantages and disadvantages.
>>20428045>It can pick up food without spearing it which is useful for some applications, and it can pick up smaller morsels of food than forks canScoop with a spoon
>>20428086Then you would be unable to dip said piece of food into something else except by also scooping up an amount of sauce
i'm just going to say it again, almost everything you can eat with chopsticks you can eat with a fork as well while the opposite is far from truealso watching youtube videos of weebs in japan eating their ramen with big chunks of meat in it, hovering their faces right above the bowl as they bite off chunks of the meat they're holding with the chopsticks. holy fuck, get a knife you fucking retard weaboo instead of eating like a savage, the nips will consider you to be a filthy gaijin anyway no matter how hard you try to fit in aping their animalistic table "manners"
Great for getting the last few olives out of a jar>>20425099>Just get heat stroke in triple digit weather bro
>>20424993Once you're used to them it becomes just like having an extra long index finger and thumb, so everything that's convenient to eat by picking it up between those two fingers feels natural. They're great for cooking, because you can basically grab and move things around as if you had a heatproof hand. Tongs are similar, but they're limited to a single direction of motion, you can twist and spread chopsticks independently to manipulate things, and squeeze them to cut through most things. For example, if you notice a piece of vegetable wasn't cut small enough, you can snap it mostly in half, poke one chopstick into each new piece, then spread to pull the pieces apart.>>20428170>almost everything you can eat with chopsticks you can eat with a fork as well while the opposite is far from trueWhat things can't you eat with chopsticks that you can eat with just a fork? I can only thing of like pancakes where you're using the side of the fork like a makeshift knife.
>>20424993Stabbing your food is retarded
>>20428263implied the use of a knife as well, but to answer your "gotcha" mashed potatoes, sauerkraut, peas, non-sticky rice, vol-au-vent, pie slice, cake,...do you want me to go on weaboo-kun? you will never be japanese btw
>>20424993It's more fun to eat noodles with chopsticks than with a fork
>>20426583What makes it 'proper'? Tradition? A foolish notion.
>>20428299>mashed potatosEasier than rice>saurkrautEasy with Marco sticks>peasEasy>non-sticky riceIt's getting absurd now, you realize you can scoop with Marco sticks right?>vol-au-ventYou're just taking the piss now surely>pie sliceMash and scoop>cakeEasily doneHave you ever even tried to use Marco sticks
>>20427601Cheap wooden chopsticks from fast food takeout may look more primitive than a metal spoon but it is the more advanced utensil for sure.It does most things better than a knife and fork, especially while eating asian foods.>>20428086Why? You may be used to shoveling cow shit but its faster and easier to use the sticks to pick up food.Once you learn to use them its like riding a bike you don't even think about it. It's like an extension of your fingers with finer tips.>>20428170>almost everything you can eat with chopsticks you can eat with a fork as well while the opposite is far from trueWrong. Fucking wrong. So fucking wrong!How can you be so wrong, its literally the complete opposite. Everything you say and think is backwards.Eating ramen chashu with a knife and fork...faggot are you even listening to yourself?>>20428299Ony peas and non sticky rice the fork wins and even then only slightly. All others the sticks wins easy. Basically your argument falls back on the fact that a fork is a little better at being a spoon than chopsticks are. Forks shovel a little bit better, thats it. This whole thread is very good bait.
>>20428299Well no, you didn't, and every one of those things is easy. Anything loose you pick the bowl up and shovel, and the fact that you would even put fucking vol-au-vents in there makes me wonder if you're confusing chopsticks for something different, like a hammer.
They're good for cooking some things. Tornado omelets. Stir fry.
>>20426570>High quality asian rice sticks together and is easy to eat with chopsticks.Regular rice cooked with the right ratio of water sticks together no need for 1000 times folded meshi gohan.
>>20427601>A soda straw and a bamboo spoon is how you eat soup dumplings.I would love to see a video of someone trying your genius idea. Especially if it's in a nice restaurant and the video catches the waiters face while your try this. Bonus points for making a loud slurping sound.
Ideal implement for salad. Fuck trying to spear leaves against the plate and exploding croutons.
OP BTFO
>>20425211Fuck you shit head sometimes I want a nice small bowl of spicy or salt and vinegar chips while I browse the internet and organize my files, you wanted an answer I gave you one, I take a sip of some water because I'm not a mongoloid and then wipe my lips clean when I'm done along with the chopsticksIt's far better than getting any of my fingers dirty, is clean and convenient, and would be possible for you too if you didn't have chitinous multipronged spears for hands, you fucking goober peice of shitPS Your thread sucks and more importantly I hate you
Weeaboos SEETHING.My favourite part is the few actual asians in the thread being like "Nah, I use a fork bro" and the weeaboos freaking out around them
>>20429298Asian Americans aren't Asian. In addition, there ARE cultures that use fork/spoon or chopsticks for some things and fork/spoon for others. The idea that Asians only use chopsticks or all Asians = Japanese is as retarded as taking monolingual banana's opinions as representative of what authentic Orientals dot. Asian American
I always wondered why Asians refuse to use a knife and a fork when it's clearly superior and they have stolen countless other European inventions.
>>20429317>Asian Americans aren't Asian.Objectively untrue. Not reading the rest
>>20424993>Why do people use these?violent bug people keep stabbing eachother so smart bugman invent style of eating where you dont bring knives to eatbamboo is everywhere so sticks are free. in euroland stick eating means wittling for hours. people used to share cups at noble banquets just because cups are pricey shit.
>>20429404It's from Confucius, he didn't like seeing knives at dinner
>>20426527like most things they weren't stupid at the time they where invented, like abacuses. unlike abacuses they still work just as good if you get gud (Ie you can eat food mostly as fast as you could with a knife and fork depending on the meal, if not faster). Lots of dumb systems have stuck around because keeping using the system is faster than making a new one.
>>20428263on that list only peas and maybe the volauvent would be hard to eat with chopsticks. I guess you could maybe also say mashed potatos if theyre brit but you didn't say creamed potatoes you said mashed, so I have to assume american style which means chopsticks will be fine, no one is going to break out a potato ricer.
>>20426523it was for a race of violent cannibals so it made sense at the time.
>>20424993They are about as pointless as calligraphy. So, mostly
>>20429416Asian Americans>don't grow up eating their own food>have exclusively western values>can't even speak their own languageThey're basically whites that happen to have narrow eyes. FOBs, who are more in touch with their culture, are a different category. African Americans aren't African either
>>20424993They're superior for food that's already cut into pieces, because it's easier to pick up a piece of food than it is to stab it, especially if it's round, slippery, or springy. Furthermore, food that's already cut into pieces is superior to food you have to cut yourself because it's easier to eat. Why would you want to do more work when you can do less? It's just laziness by the chef to serve you a piece of uncut food. Even if you're cooking for yourself, it's easier to chop the food up while cooking with your big knife than it is to cut it up while you're eating it. Another thing is that chopsticks are perfect for eating cheetos and popcorn because you don't get dust on your hands
>>20429499>They're superior for food that's already cut into pieces, because it's easier to pick up a piece of food than it is to stab it, especially if it's round, slippery, or springy.So you scoop it. Done.>Another thing is that chopsticks are perfect for eating cheetos and popcorn because you don't get dust on your hands>>20425211
>>20429498Hey, I'm sorry for arguing in bad faith. I do know what you mean and you are correct in your assessment.
>>20429515Braindead
>>20429529Not an argument
>>20429298Are those posts in the room with us?
>>20424993fork/spoon are imprecise and i'm not a dextlet like you fat fingered OP.
>>20429588>Proudly expending effort on menial tasks
>>20429605Yes, it's somewhat akin to the time you spend decorating your goon cave.
>>20429664Do you goon with chopsticks since you're so good at them?
>>20429667No.
>>20429742but it says you can pick up anything, even a grain of rice :^)
>>20429533Can't argue with someone retarded as you
I go in the bathroom and stick one of em up my assthen I spend the rest of my dinner pretending to look around the table for it, all while saying "Where's my other chopstick?" really loudly
>>20430054Best post ITT>>20426979Second best post ITT
>>20425015they also dont scratch pans when you use them to cook, which i only do if i want to avoid dirtying spatulas or tongs. they also supposedly make users resistant to Alzheimers due to parts of the brain involved when using. they also have a nice amount of reach and are faster for serving than using a fork to skewer meat slabs or even tongs usually.
>>20430246>they also supposedly make users resistant to Alzheimers due to parts of the brain involved when using. Big if true
>>20425015>. I still have no idea how the fuck you eat rice with themYou hold the bowl up to your mouth and literally shovel it in
>>20424993it's a grabby utensil like tongsbut I don't own tiny pairs of tongs and I have a plastic bag filled with unusual rigid straws so I use those as chopsticks to eat foods at my desk without having to stick my hand in the bag like some kind of savage
>>20428544i really really want to see you try and eat mashed potatoes with chopsticks>Basically your argument falls back on the fact that a fork is a little better at being a spoon than chopsticks are"a little better" is one way of saying that chopsticks in this regard are completely useless. and yes that's the pointthere are only very niche dishes where you can't stab the food and have to grab it instead while there are a buttload more where the forks acts as both a spoon and a tool to pin the fooda pizza, do you prefer a knife and fork or chopsticks?
>>20425015>not destructive to foodmy teeth are
>>20429499>They're superior for food that's already cut into pieces, because it's easier to pick up a piece of food than it is to stab itsays who?>Why would you want to do more work when you can do less? It's just laziness by the chef to serve you a piece of uncut foodmommy needs to cut your sausages for you because it's too much effort to do it yourself, get a load of this manchildand you completely seem to miss that a lot of the time the knife is also there to make it easier to put food on the forkbtw i'm genuinely perplexed weebs claim for something like mashed potatoes chopsticks are just as good. is this the power of being deeply delusional?
>>20430541It’s the power of having base level human dexterity.
>>20430541why are non-asians so painfully lazy? even if they are paid to cook a steak they refuse to do the final step of slicing it for you. instead you get handed a knife and told to slice the food yourself.>mashed potatoroll it into balls. provide a small bowl of gravy to dip them in.
>>20430554>roll it into balls. provide a small bowl of gravy to dip them in.??? have you ever had it even once in your life? you're not rolling shitdo you roll up your soup into balls and dip it in gravy as well?
>>20430541>btw i'm genuinely perplexed weebs claim for something like mashed potatoes chopsticks are just as good. is this the power of being deeply delusional?I honestly can't believe the cope-acrobatics I have seen ITT
>>20430554>why are non-asians so painfully lazy?It's not lazy to replace swords with muskets. Why couldn't asians have taken to the fork the way they did with firearms?
>>20430554ah yes asians are not lazy for not wanting to cut their food and needing someone else to do it for themif mommy cut a piece of meat a bit too big then tough luck pal
>>20430562fry it if you're still having trouble>>20430573because forks are for people who don't slice their food in the kitchen>>20430582correct it should be done in the kitchen by the person who is already holding a big knifethis is superior to everyone having small knives to saw away at it
>>20430597i will interpret this that the answer to how you eat creamy mashed potatoes is "you don't"why do you believe limiting your options is a good thing? btw mommy that needs to cut my steak for me like i'm a toddler made that one piece a bit too big for my mouth, what do i do. tell her to bring a knife and cut that one bit properly this time?or do you just start biting parts off of it off like an animal. "people" actually do that with pork ramen
>>20425015>I still have no idea how the fuck you eat rice with themWe cook long grain rice that clumps together so you just like, pick it up.
>>20430613here, this is just painful to look at. if someone pinned an entire steak on his fork, started tearing pieces off with his teeth with his mouth a couple of cm above the plate with lots of chewing and slurping noises i would genuinely wonder if that person was raised by wolves>noooo you can't use a knife, the chef has to cut it for you>what about the big parts in ramen then>use your mouth, duhall this because a knife le bad. i am not entirely convinced about the merits of chopsticks even for specifically asian dishes that are supposed to be eaten with them
>>20430625>bitches for an hour about how asians eat>posts a white girl
>>20430629an asian would have fit an entire semi hard boiled egg in his mouth?i kneel
I have use chopsticks as long as I have used a fork. I would say I use them for cooking more than eating. They are very useful to manipulate food in a pan if they're an instrument you are comfortable with. Also great for snacks when using the computer!
>>20430639You snip the egg into bite sized pieces with the chopsticks. I agree the giant slices of meat are stupid.
It's fun, you go to a weird place covered with lead-laden red paint and eat mystery meat with sticks while small yellow people run around
>>20430656>You snip the egg into bite sized pieces with the chopsticks.why not use a knife then? trying to cut things into pieces hoping for the best with something that was clearly not intended to be used this way seems kind of silly>I agree the giant slices of meat are stupidso can you enlighten me how you are supposed to eat pork ramen? i thought the chef cuts everything into tiny pieces but here for some reason they don'tdo you cut the meat with the chopsticks?
>>20428299>mashed potatoes/peasYou eat that with a fork? Either way, believe it or not, spoons also exist in Chinese/Asian cuisine. Pic related. >sauerkrautYou could absolutely eat this with chopsticks. In fact pickled vegetables are a big staple in Northern Chinese cuisine; it's most commonly eaten as a part of Liang Cai, roughly meaning "cold food". And you probably already know how popular pickled vegetables are in Korea in dishes like kimchi.>vol-au-vent, pie slice, cake,...This I'll hand to you, but I'd point out that if you really wanted, you can use your chopsticks as a makeshift knife for softer foods like pastries and desserts by squeezing down on them, like you would a fork for cake. It's impractical though, and it'd be harder to do than with the comparatively sharper edge of a metal fork. But it would be possible. Obviously that's not gonna worn with hard or tough food like a steak, but then again you can't use just a fork to eat that either, you'd need a knife. The difference is Asian cuisine cuts up the meat before it's served, so a knife isn't needed as a table utensil >non sticky riceThis is a fundamental misunderstanding of how chopsticks and rice work in Asian cuisine/table manners. You'd never pick up clumps of rice with your chopsticks, that's just not how it works for any Asian cuisine. You're given rice in a saucer that you can hold with your left hand, and hold the cup up to your mouth and shovel rice into it with your right hand using the chopsticks. You left hand is always holding the rice cup. Does the cup itself count as another utensil? You be the judge. >do you want me to go on weaboo-kun? you will never be japanese btwThank God, because fuck japs. Btw believe it or not, there are types of people who use this dogshit website who aren't japs or weebs. This might blow your mind, but other Asians do exist, I know, shocker.
I dont knowIts fruatrating trying to eat like wet rice But one time I went to a honky viet restaurant with my grandparents and orderes pho and they gave me a fork to eat it with and i did not enjoy the experience
>>20430721>You eat that with a fork? Either way, believe it or not, spoons also exist in Chinese/Asian cuisine. Pic related.you don't? peas perhaps could be a bit more convenient with a spoon but a fork works fine too, mashed potatoes are absolutely no issue whatsoever>You could absolutely eat this with chopsticks"possible" yes most likely but wouldn't this be a big pain in the ass when you can only grab tiny pieces one by one instead of using your fork as a spoon? i usually eat it with mashed potatoes and sausages as well. >The difference is Asian cuisine cuts up the meat before it's served, so a knife isn't needed as a table utensican you explain this >>20430704 then. how do you deal with the big slices of meat in ramen?anyway the point is that the knife and fork is way more versatile, there is simply no denying this
>>20430759It might be that you don't quite get how chopsticks work, which is totally understandable because you didn't grow up using them, and I can totally respect that, hopefully I can help explain. Pic related is a Chinese analogous to sauerkraut; it's also picked vegetables. To eat this, you wouldn't pick up each strand one by one. You'd squeeze your chopsticks together and grab them in a clump. Imagine your chopsticks as your thumb and index finger instead. Would you grab just a single strand of sauerkraut with your two fingers? You could, but that take forever, so instead you'd pinch a clump. I'm assuming the issue is that you think chopsticks don't have the dexterity and control as your thumb and index since you always imagined them as hard to control thin sticks of wood that don't make sense; "how could I possibly pick up a clump on pickled vegetables with two sticks, it's impossible, I could do it with my fingers but not two sticks". But if you grew up using them, you'd be able to use them as an extension of your fingers. Chopsticks aren't as wide as human fingers, but a skilled user could easily pick up almost anything your fingers can.As to your point about the ramen, I've only had Japanese pork ramen a few times in my life, but each time I had it I picked up the entire slice of pork with chopsticks, took a bite, then set it back down on the noodles and alternated between the noodles and the meat. The meat was soft enough where it'd easily tear off in your mouth. Again, imagine eating a dish like that with 2 fingers. You'd pinch the meat, chomp down on it, then rip downwards, getting a perfect bite of the meat. Then you'd pinch a few strands of noodles and place them into your mouth. Same concept, but using chopsticks instead of fingers. If the pork was too tough to warrant that, I'd unironically get a refund.
it's [ckspoiler]fun[/ckspoiler]
>>20430704>why not use a knife then?How the fuck you gonna carve things up in a BOWL of SOUP.>so can you enlighten me how you are supposed to eat pork ramen?Pick it up and bite. An analogy: a burger.
>>20430704Dangerously based noticer
The meat-ramen anon is correct!It is complete and utter doublethink to say>Well asian food is pre-chopped so chopsticks are betterand then say:>Yeah! You just tale a bite out of the large meat and put it backWell which one is it? Is it a morsel or a fillet? Is it sophisticated or barbaric?
>>20430799Why not just make the pieces of meat smaller then?If chopsticks are better for bite-sized food then why not make the food bite-sized?If ramen (one of the main "chopstick" foods) is a poorly conceived food item then chopsticks by extension are useless. Same with won tons/dumplings. Either make them smaller or use a fucking spoon. Or just admit that you are using an inferior tool because of cultural reasons which is fine. Danish people wear clogs. Clogs are stupid but at least they admit that and say "it's just tradition bro"Why pretend that something cultural is also useful? Just admit it ffs
>>20428183Can tell you don't even leave the house if you think triple digit weather will instantly mean heatstroke. Shit, even as a kid when I went on a field trip to Six Flags I recognized that I was overheating and hauled my ass over to the teachers where they gave me an ice pack and water. Imagine being dumber than a middle schooler.
>>20430908>Why not just make the pieces of meat smaller then? If chopsticks are better for bite-sized food then why not make the food bite-sized?Nigga what are you saying? It is "bite sized"; you take bite sized bites out of the meat. Again, just imagine the chopsticks are your thumb and index finger: you pinch that big chunk of meat with your fingers, put it in your mouth, and bite off a chunk. Since yiu want a good ratio of meat to noodles to soup, you then set the remaining meat back into the bowl, do the same for the noodles, then lift up the bowl and drink some of the soup, or you can use a spoon for that. Are you saying it's hard to control a big piece of meat with chopsticks? Because you'd be wrong, again I go back to that analogy of chopsticks vs fingers. Anything your fingers can pick up, your chopsticks can also pick up. It's unironically a skill issue if you can't feasibly pick up a piece of ramen pork. >If ramen (one of the main "chopstick" foods) is a poorly conceived food item then chopsticks by extension are useless. Same with won tons/dumplings. Either make them smaller or use a fucking spoon. Or just admit that you are using an inferior tool because of cultural reasons which is fine. Danish people wear clogs. Clogs are stupid but at least they admit that and say "it's just tradition bro". Why pretend that something cultural is also useful? Just admit it ffsI just don't understand what you mean by "ramen can't be eaten using chopsticks". Vid related:https://youtu.be/FvPkdxC832M?si=LBLF9yKNJXQubGlW&t=284Does that look "difficult to eat" to you? You just pick it up, take a bite, and eat it lol. Except you aren't stabbing at it with a fork, you're picking it up with chopsticks.
>>20430935Not all heat is equal
>>20430938>It is "bite sized"; you take bite sized bites out of the meat.No. That is the opposite of what it means.
>>20430938That is not what bite sized means
>people can't possibly prefer things I don't>it must be a globe-spanning conspiracy to trick ME PERSONALLY
>>20430947>>20430950I know, it was a shitty joke that didn't land and I regret typing it. But my point remains, there's nothing difficult about holding up a piece of meat to your mouth and taking a bite. You can understand that, right? Your point about ramen being a food ill suited for chopsticks doesn't make any sense. Watch the video I posted; what seems difficult or ill suited? Chopsticks are perfect for ramen, I'm confused as to why you're confused. Watch the video and explain to me what exactly looks so difficult. I even time stamped it already for you.
>>20430964No, that's my bad. I got too wrapped up in the discussion so your levity went completely over my head. I think you could be right about ramen. That is the only food that makes sense to use chopsticks with. Much more than cheetos. Using chopsticks for cheetos is reddit shit.
>>20430799>As to your point about the ramen, I've only had Japanese pork ramen a few times in my life, but each time I had it I picked up the entire slice of pork with chopsticks, took a bite, then set it back down on the noodles and alternated between the noodles and the meat. The meat was soft enough where it'd easily tear off in your mouthexactly, that's just bad manners. if someone put an entire sausage or egg on his fork and started biting it off bit by bit because cba to cut it up i would be offended as welli'll use a knife and fork instead of eating like a caveman, thank you. honestly if you ate your ramen in a french michelin restaurant like the nips do they would probably politely ask you to leaveculture is subjective i suppose but i was taught to bring the food to my mouth and not the other way around, not make loud slurping noises, and using your teeth or wooden sticks as a replacement for a knife because you can't have that is in my opinion retarded
>>20431065The Eternal Anglo.
>>20430541You know Asia has spoons right? They have pudding and congee and it's eaten with spoons. If your mashed potatoes are so badly watered and inferior then you can use a spoon for it too. Though properly prepared, chopsticks would be better than a fork.
>>20424993I have a real, legitimate question. Does anyone actually use a spork in any other functional way than just a spoon? Like are you cutting a steak with a knife and spork? Are you eating pasta with a spork? Are you eating salad with a spork like you would a fork?
>>20430908>Same with won tons/dumplings. Either make them smaller or use a fucking spoon.Skill issue.
>>20430857>How the fuck you gonna carve things up in a BOWL of SOUP.wider and flatter bowl of soup then? perhaps a seperate plate that allows you to cut the meat? i still haven't heard an explanation why they don't cut up the meat into smaller pieces. it's inconsistent and "the chef is supposed to cut the food for you argument" goes down the toilet. >Pick it up and bite. An analogy: a burger.you either eat with your hands or you don't. dangling a big piece of meat in front of your mouth as you attempt to tear clean bits off while contorting your head is not only awkward but dumb as helldo you pick up an entire pizza slice with your fork and chew on it that way or do you cut off a smaller piece and put that in your mouth insteador only eat it with your hands, which is fine too, but something in between because knives are evil is ridiculous and you know it
>>20430908By you logic, eating with a utensils is stupid since you can just eat with your hands.
>>20431081and this is what they call sour grapes
>>20431098People like to eat different things. There's a reason wings are better than "boneless" "wings". Ramen is fast food, complaining that it's not sliced up for you is like complaining that KFC isn't deboned.>pizza with a knife and forkOh, you're one of them.
>>20431081>Though properly prepared, chopsticks would be better than a fork.Oh c'mon!
>>20431092>Skill issue.More like, why wouldn't I just use a fork?
Eating with your hands is the most efficient way to eat.Using ANY utensils is pretense and social fluff.The only argument I'm seeing for knife and fork is 'it's elegant'.
>>20431102You are arguing in bad faith and you know it. If you don't, then let me know and I guess I can explain try and explain multiple fundamental aspects of language
>>20431115Bro you are not even close to addressing the point he made
>>20431132Pajeet fingers typed this.
>>20431138His only point is that he personally doesn't like it. Asian people do like it, thus that's how it's served and eaten.
>>20431134I don't even know what it means to argue in bad faith. I use KaF for Western food and chopsticks for Eastern food. Eating pasta with chopsticks is retarded; eating ramen with a fork is retarded.I'm just drawing OPs logic to its natural conclusion.'The stories told of Diogenes illustrate the logical consistency of his character. He inured himself to the weather by living in a clay wine jar[5][19] belonging to the temple of Cybele.[20] He destroyed the single wooden bowl he possessed on seeing a peasant boy drink from the hollow of his hands. He then exclaimed: "Fool that I am, to have been carrying superfluous baggage all this time!".[21][22]'
>>20431145no, my point is that it's inconvenient and inconsistent and you have yet to answer why they don't serve it in smaller bits
>>20431145No it's not!It was said that>Chopsticks are better for asian food because asian food is bite-sizedBut then>Yeah bro just bite the meat in ramen incrementallySo which is it?
>>20431174The meat in ramen is bite sized. What are you talking about?
>>20431154Based Diogenes
>>20431170>>20431174Because the customers see biting into meat as part of the experience of that dish. Because the customers don't find it inconvenient, and actually enjoy it. Because part of the presentation is the nice spiral shape. Because it's fast food and it saves some time not to cut it up.>it's inconsistentIt's one fucking dish. Jesus wept.
>>20431175If it was bite-sized then you would not have to bite more than once. It's BITE-sized not BITES-sizedsee: >>20430950
>>20431177>Chopsticks are better for asian food because it is bite-sized>Wait! Not that one! That one is different!
>>20431182Yeah IDK who that little girl is, but I don't do any biting when I eat ramen. I shove everything directly into my mouth. I've never had a piece of anything in a restaurant ramen that was too big to eat in one bite.
>>20431184No, that one is the same. We understand that you personally don't like the idea, that's okay.
>>20431177oh wow, biting off meat what an experiencesugoi! subarashii!!>Because it's fast food and it saves some time not to cut it up.because slicing the meat in 4 or 5 parts is very time consuming and instead the customers eat their meat like it's fish bait on a hook because it more time efficient? lmao, you're one of the most inconsistent mofos i've seen on this site in quite a whilecan you just admit it's stupid instead of digging your own hole deeper and deeper?
>>20431197People like different things.
>>20431207Jesus fucking christ! Are you deliberately being this obtuse? I don't even have a stake in this discussion except you being annoying right now
>>20431238I'm just providing information that was repeatedly and insistently requested about this dish. And again, this one singular dish. Even if we take as read that it's an inconvenient dish to eat with chopsticks, the exception proves the rule. The fact that literally everyone who eats it still uses chopsticks instead of whipping out a fork and knife (great for soup, apparently) proves that they all find it more convenient.QED. Utensil Court is closed.
>>20431207I always thought Asian folk ate those foods initially out of necessity, then out of interest
>>20431272I think that's the case with most foods that are unique or signature to a particular place. Everyone eats basically the same stuff when times are good, it's only when you're starving that you need to start digging up the rotted shark and piss eggs.
>>20431250>the exception proves the rule.Are you actually using this idiotic idiom unironically? It is an antinomy.
>>20424993eat with your hands PEASANTLIKE THE MUD TRODDEN DOG YOU AREYOU WILL NEVER BE ENLIGHTENED TO REACH THE CELESTIAL JADE GATEAHAHAHAHAHA non-dexterous bitch-ass nigga I USE CHOPSTICKS AND A FORK AND KNIFE TO CUT STEAK DUMB FAT FINGERED BITCH
>>20431363lol
>>20431338>Using common words and phrases?! How very dare you!What're you gonna do, call the cutlery cops?
>>20431536You know the mark of the beast from the bible I presume. Using that idiom is the mark of the retard. You are basically saying "The fact that I have been proven wrong strengthens my point!"
>>20431730This day long shitfight bringing up a singular exception does in fact prove the general rule that Asian food is prepared for ease of chopstick use. In the same way a "reserved" sign on one table proves the general rule that all other tables are open for use.
>>20431771>In the same way a "reserved" sign on one table proves the general rule that all other tables are open for use.That is not a rule that is deductive and statistical reasoning. Something analoguous to what you are saying would be if I said that water never falls upwards but then I showed you a glass of water in a windtunnel and you said "No but see that is the exception that proves the rule" and you would be wrong again hypothetically but also definitely
>>20431827And this proves chopsticks are bad?
>>20431832No it proves that you are a moron. >Chopsticks are better for asian food because the food is bite-sized unlike american food>Okay but with ramen you have to bite the meat like an animal and then place the spit-covered meat back into the broth>Well yeah but this is just that one meal>What about...uhhh...uhhh..dumplings!>Yeah I guess you could use a fork still...>Well they are still better because I said so okay and ramen is just one example out of two, so it is the exception that proves the rule!
>>20431841Yes, you really won that imaginary argument you were having with yourself. No generally true statements can ever be made because exceptions exist, and things only have one reason for their use.
>>20431128>Stab with fork>All the juice leaks out of it
Chopsticks are better than forks for a salad. I just prefer them for most other things, sometimes forks dont really stab through or they mess food up when they do. Chopsticks are just like eating with your fingers without the mess. Theyre nice for chips too sometimes.
>>20425015The starch of the grain sticks the rice.
>>20424993Why does every fucking Chinese food chopstick wrapper teach you how to do it wrong on purpose?>https://marcosticks.org/the-righthand-rule-grip/I just recently learned they had us learning this wrong and I can't fucking unlearn it.
>>20432776>Why does every fucking Chinese food chopstick wrapper teach you how to do it wrong on purpose?Did you even fully read the link you posted? That's an alternate grip, aka some shit the website made up to help whipipo learn it. It might work fine, but it's the wrong way, same way as fisting a spoon or fork might technically work just fine, but it's wrong/bad manners.The tip of your middle finger is supposed to go in between the chopsticks; it serves a very important role; it helps stabilize the sticks. There aren't too many Chinese dishes that require your chopsticks to be super spread out like your rightmost pic, that's a misleading picture, you're supposed to keep them relatively close together and when you squeeze them together, you're squeezing your middle finger as well. That's how you get max control. When you wanna open them up, you ever so slightly press down with your middle finger and they'll open just slightly, enough to pinch what you're trying to grab. Then you slightly retract your middle finger when you want to close the sticks and grab it. It's super subtle, but the key is in the middle finger.>t. Would have gotten the shit slapped out of me by both my parents if I gripped chopsticks like your pic when growing up
>>20432995>exposing yourself as a chinkoidYour parents should’ve drowned you in the three gorges river
is now a bad time to mention I'm gay?
>>20433018Failed asian male growing up in America
>>20432995>you're supposed to keep them relatively close together and when you squeeze them together, you're squeezing your middle finger as well.I shall try it, I only read far enough to realize I didn't make up my chopstick technique, I found it on a takeout wrapper. Then in a panic about being a tourist, I started doing what was pictured a couple days ago and my hand got all crampy. I will study the matter further, and practice more, thanks chinkfag.
>>20430704>how you are supposed to eat pork ramen?Those pork slices are small and thin enough to eat whole. If you have a small mouth, you can easily fold the meat and eat it.
how am I supposed to pick up multiple ingredients in one bite, for example, if I were having a roast dinner and I wanted a slice of pork and some cauliflower and cheese sauce together?
>>20433333checked. Three forks.
>>20424993They can be fun to use as an adult, but I think the main benefit they offer is that they increase IQ and motor skills. Children should learn to use chopsticks at an early age regardless of their culture.
>>20433499>is that they increase IQSource?
>>20433342it's been a rough week and I'd like to thank all the posters that came before me for the greatest achievement of my life since coming second in a Lego building contest when I was 8
>>20433742>greatest achievement of my lifeSo far! We believe in you anon and again, good, no, GREAT get
>>20433499>>20433505To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to use chopsticks. The proper grip is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of sticky rice, most of the food will go in your lap. There's also the chopsticks' timeless design, which is deftly drawn from Asian mysticism- the dual sticks representing Yin and Yang, for instance. The Orientials understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these utensils, to realise that they're not just utilitarian- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike chopsticks truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the meaning of the existential chopstick haiku "Ching Chong Bing Bong," which itself is a cryptic reference to Sun Tzu's Art of Eating. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads with their chopsticks in confusion as Asia's genius wit unfolds itself on their dining tables. What fools.. how I pity them.And yes, by the way, i DO have a chopstick tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the Asian ladies' eyes only- and even then they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand. Nothin personnel gaijin
>>20424993I like it for sushi because it's delicate enough where destroying it with a fork is a concern and it's also better than bare hands because you can easily dip into soy sauce and spread a minimal amount of wasabi. Other than that, zero use for me.
I like to eat chips with them
>>20433975I wanted to call you retarded but the more i think about it, it's a good way to eat them and not get dust on your fingers.
>>20424993>Why do people use these?Be ancient Chinese cavemanEat with your handsOne day you grab a piece of meatIt's hot and you drop itGrab a stick and pick it upOther cavemen see you do thisThey copy you
I'm teaching myself to use them in my off hand so I can eventually use four at once. I'm gonna fucking destroy the buffet.
>>20434305Now this I can get behind!Off-hand chopsticks. Fork in the other.
I eat everything that's not a soup or something like a proper steak with just a forkThe side of the fork perfectly adequate for cutting most things
>>20424993I like them for salads, especially when there isn't much left and stabbing the leaves with a fork produces no results so you're left with having to scoop them up like it were a spoon. With chinksticks you can just pinch the leaves as if you were eating with your fingers. >forces you to slow downnot always true, forks can tear apart what you're trying to eat when chopsticks can just pick it the fuck up
I appreciate chopsticks because the idea of personal decorated cutlery lasted longer with them. Most people see the cheap disposable sticks, but the nice one that families passed down made of special woods, metals, bones, etc are cool.My grandfather brought some black wood chopsticks with pearl ends back from his time in the Korean War. They're neat.No, I don't have a photo of them, unfortunately.
>>20435091>No, I don't have a photo of them, unfortunately.How convenient. Why are you lying about chopsticks?
>>20435273I'm not. They are simply at the family home in storage, and in my lack of foresight, I had not thought to take pictures of a family memento for internet points like a redditor
>>20435279mhmm suuure
>>20435091>>20435279I believe you.
>>20431132>Eating with your hands is the most efficient way to eat.Just shove your snout straight in the trough, you pig.
>>20435342God I wish we had trough restaurants
>>20433333QUINTS CHECKED
>>20435348I can do you a barrow.
chopsticks are superior whiteoids SEETHING because their baby hands cant figure out two sticks LMAOyou ever eat flaming hot cheetos out of the bag with chopsticks?
>>20435559I have been convinced. I will now learn how to use chopstick with my off-hand and a fork in the other. Because why would they give you both unless you were meant to use both?
>>20435568dual wielding..husbant u are the last samurai......
>>20433333nice
