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>>4015625
why are boys like this?

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>>4015886
It is a mystery

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Inside kaworu's dream

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"What on earth is this? It's almost just a string..."

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>>4015886
It is simply their nature.

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"Did you grab your bento and employee ID?"
"Okay."
"If it looks like you'll be coming home late, let me know, okay?"
"Okay."
"It's cold out, so try not to catch a cold, okay?"
"...... Maybe I should take the day off too and spend some time with Shinji-kun..."
"Take care and have a good day!"

>>4017821
Shinji is responsible, he'd be the one working.
Kaworu would be a stinky stay-at-home neet

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>>4017999
Kaworu is an angle I don't think it's possible for him to be stinky

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"Eh? Those scratch marks..."
"They must be from last night, right?"
"Uwa~... I'm really sorry... (I gotta cut my nails...)"
"It's nothing to worry about. Besides, we're in the same boat."
"?"

>>4017867
This is cute, I wish there was more.

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I like this artist a lot.

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>>4018125
Finished version

>>4018315
Oh nice!

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This guy draws a version of Kaworu combined with Asuka's traits

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>>4018626
Not sure i like it. Just looks like Kaworu's head on Asuka's body

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>>4018702
Oh wow

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Goodnight Nagisa

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"I... We...!"
"Because we're dating! So don't disturb us!"
>A shock on the level of the Third Impact strikes Kaworu Nagisa.

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Valentine's

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"Choco..."
"I said I don't have any."

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:)

i have never watched evangelion and i probably wont but i love this pairing and jack off to them daily. i mostly do it to thoughts about them fucking me and doing othjer things to me

>>4020157
I used to think about making an episode guide for watching Eva specifically for the fujo content.
It'd be tough because Kaworu shows up for literally one episode right before the end, but you'd need at least enough of the preceding episodes to establish the basics of the story and why Kaworu is important to the plot, Shinji's relationships with the other characters and how they disintegrate before he meets Kaworu, and Shinji's depression spiral before he meets Kaworu, in order for it to hit as hard as it does when you actually watch the show.

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I have shared this before I think but I think it's funny so I am posting it again

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"Hey, Shinji-kun, what were you doing in the Second's room?"
"What was that white liquid?"

asushin is canon bros… we lost

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>>4020778
Canon has never stopped me before
Shinji and Kaworu are in love, simple as

>>4020778
If you're referring to the Eva 30th promo image, it's actually somewhat shockingly weighted to Kawoshin.

>>4020806
Oh nvm. I found out.
There is a promo image though with all the characters and it looks like Kaworu and Shinji are about to hold hands

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Shinji but he's your cat

It's E-van-JELL-e-on

>>4020858
>There is a promo image though with all the characters and it looks like Kaworu and Shinji are about to hold hands
Which one?

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You getting this?

>>4020958
No nipples? :(

>>4020988
It's more aerodynamic that way.

so kaworu never had a chance with shinji… fine then why draw them together at every occasion…

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Kaworu skinny

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Cute

>>4021212
Queerbait unironically, even now they had another artist at the Eva 30 event draw them together. Not gonna lie it is pretty disappointing to me how hard Anno has practically no-homoed Kawoshin in the last few years. Even from the beginning it didn’t seem like he was that thrilled about an explicitly gay reading of their relationship (he made Satsukawa tone down his original episode 24 drafts), but Kaworu obviously became an extremely popular character nonetheless. When the Eva franchise was being whored out like crazy in the late 90s/early 2000s there was some pretty explicitly gay side material made about Kawoshin (along with a lot of other insane shit with the girls) but obviously most of that got reined in when Khara took over. Still, Anno ended up dedicating 3.0 to just recreating episode 24 and put tons of romantic imagery into that film and the promo material to keep the fujo money flowing. Ever since then, though, it feels like he’s seriously decommitted from any romantic reading of their relationship. It sort of started with the Netflix dub changing Kaworu’s “I love you”, which was ultimately approved by Khara/Anno, but definitely came to a breaking point in 3.0+1.0. I’m still frustrated with the way Kaworu was handled in that film for a lot of reasons, but the most insulting part is definitely the straight-washing at the end by seemingly having him end up with Rei. I say seemingly because it is pretty ambiguous, but the new context from the Asuka short seems to confirm that it was supposed to be read romantically. In the Asuka short they redraw the 3.0+1.0 ending scene with Asuka in Shinji’s place, and in Kaworu and Rei’s place is Kaji and Misato. Also, in the scene where Asuka imagines a future with Shinji, the shot of her with Shinji as he holds their child is directly traced from that 3.0+1.0 promo artwork of Rei with Kaworu as he holds a baby that looks like Shinji.

>>4021346
Now maybe this is just my American/western perspective speaking, but there is something that just doesn’t sit right with me about this. Whether or not you personally interpret Kaworu as gay/bi/asexual/whatever is irrelevant, for 25 years his most defining trait in otaku culture was that he seemingly had a gay relationship with Shinji, which Anno/Gainax/Khara knew and marketed like crazy. To then go ahead and seriously imply that Kaworu’s final happy ending is that he gets over his long obsession with “making Shinji happy” and winds up in a heterosexual relationship (with what is basically a random woman, he and Rei don’t have any on screen relationship in the rebuilds), symbolically I am weary of the undertones. Ultimately, Anno is a rich old man in a conservative country, which I think is reflected in the fact that 3.0+1.0 and this new Asuka short have some notable natalist themes that were not present in the Eva media before them. The first half of 3.0+1.0 dedicates time to Rei with Hikari and Toji’s baby, Kaji Jr. is introduced out of nowhere, Yui and Gendo’s relationship is heavily romanticized in a way it wasn’t before, and of course the ending has Kaworu & Rei and Shinji & Mari. Mari and Shinji are another example of a couple that had very little on-screen relationship, the reward for Shinji is that he ends up in a heterosexual relationship at all. Mari is also a character that had some queer-coding in the films and in marketing but ended up in a straight relationship anyway. And then of course we have this new Asuka short where Asuka imagines living a cookie cutter heterosexual life with Shinji where they get married and have children. I don’t know man, Eva really didn’t have this emphasis on squeaky clean heterosexual relationships before. It feels at least partially informed by Japan’s current political climate/birth rate problem.

>>4021360
you’re american? why?

>>4020910
This

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Kabuki Kawoshin. They had the imperial musicians hired to this and the Kabuki "prince" is playing the protagonist Kaworu.

>>4021447
>This work is a kabuki dance piece based on the Ninth Symphony, depicting the protagonist Nagisa Kaworu. The story begins quietly with a gagaku (traditional Japanese court music) performance that hints at the beginning of the universe. Accompanied by the sounds of koto (Japanese harp) and bells being plucked in the darkness and the thunder of a large drum, the Black Swan God and the Swan God descend onto the stage. This duet, in which light and darkness, black and white, are attracted to each other and at times pulled apart, depicts the fundamental duality of Evangelion with dazzling beauty.

What is this even about.

>>4021360
>>4021346
Kaworei end makes sense in Rebuild themes. Kaworu and Rei originally (NGE) were Shinji's ideal self/unconscious female anima self. But in Rebuild, they were extensions of his parents except that instead of being engrossed with each other in that shit, they were engrossed with him and would die for him, putting Shinji first. Kaworu dressing like Gendo, Rei overlapping with Yui. They pushed this instead of "you're like me" as in NGE.
So the natural ending now Shinji grew up and doesn't need them is finally end up together.

>>4021227
i think skinny is the most aesthetic bodily form

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>>4021346
>>4021360
>>4021454
Eva was only good because there were enough people at Gainax who could tardwrangle Anno. On his own, he's a hack. Khara is even more pointless and awful than trigger. And the rebuilds are not canon.

>>4021454
>Kaworei end makes sense in Rebuild themes
I understand this but I hate it. 3.0+1.0 goes very hard on the Kaworu/Gendo similarities to the point that Shinji basically father zones him. I don’t like it though because of how much it differs from NGE Kawoshin, despite the rebuilds insisting that this is the same Kaworu going through a time loop. In NGE, Shinji was the one infatuated with Kaworu, not the reverse. NGE Kaworu was an angel unaccustomed to humanity who knowingly or unknowingly showed Shinji more direct affection than anyone else had up to that point. Shinji falls for him instantly and opens up to him in response, which is why Kaworu changed his mind about humanity at the end and allowed himself to be killed by Shinji so humanity could live. I think we’re meant to assume that this was the first loop and that Kaworu then became obsessed with making Shinji happy to his own detriment, but the rebuilds sideline the most important aspect of his character, him being an angel. Seriously I do not remember it being brought up a single time in 3.0+1.0 that Kaworu is an angel. In 3.0 I think it’s mentioned offhandedly once but it’s practically irrelevant to the plot unlike NGE where that reveal & betrayal is the entire point of the Kawoshin relationship. When you remove that aspect from the forefront you rewrite their entire relationship & Kaworu dying in every timeline feels arbitrary. Genuinely what is the lore reason for him dying every time if he’s not being actively hunted by NERV? Bad luck? The reason he failed to make Shinji happy in NGE wasn’t because he was too devoted to Shinji, it was because he was biologically an alien meant to destroy the world. And then seemingly in the 3.0+1.0 ending he magically stops being an angel so he can be with Rei? Ridiculous. The problems with rebuild Kawoshin’s relationship are so artificially created, it honestly feels like a retcon by Anno to tone down the gay elements of the original episode 24.

>>4021463
NGE and EoE were lightning is a bottle that can’t be captured again. Anno is old, rich, married, and out of touch now. While making EoE he was authentically depressed and having problems with women and it showed. The rebuilds are much more sanitized, corporate, and not nearly as meaningful in comparison. Since I wrote those rants I actually saw some tweets from Japanese fans about how 3.0+1.0 sort of felt like a lecture from Anno to otaku to grow up, get married, have children, conform to society, etc, so I’m glad it’s not just me going crazy. The original EoE was infinitely more impactful because of its ambiguity, what happened specifically to Asuka and Shinji after the beach scene wasn’t important, the point was that they chose to live at all. In 3.0+1.0 Anno just spells it out directly that Shinji fixes all of his problems (and his friends problems) and becomes an ordinary man.

>>4021463
tru there is a reason why Qworu is the worst Kaworu

>>4021534
I’ll never stop wondering about what the original ending of the rebuilds where Kaworu kills Gendo and Shinji forgives him for it would have looked like

Came back here to see if anyone was discussing the new Eva project by the Nier guy that was announced... interesting conversation to walk in on.

>>4021346
>>4021360
This sounds less like specifically de-gaying and more the result of forcing Shinji to end up with Anno's wife-insert Mari. Kaworu needs to be disconnected from Shinji, so he's paired up with the closest thing he has to an alternative pairing option in Rei. I have not seen the Asuka short and have no desire to because it sounds like it would not spark joy, but if it's just Asuka imagining herself with Shinji... well, we already knew she was into him, so that's not even new. Also didn't she hook up with one of Shinji's friends in Rebuild? Why's she still pining for Shinji? What the fuck

>>4021526
>Kaworu then became obsessed with making Shinji happy to his own detriment
>he was too devoted to Shinji
Interesting how closely this parallels the bullshit that was pulled with Madoka and Homura in Rebellion, though that was done to make them MORE gay not less.

[spoiler]By the way, if anyone remembers the anon who was writing that Kaworu Time Loop Saga thing, that was me. I'm thinking of working on that again... shall I post about it here?[/spoiler]

>>4021567
[spoiler]how did my spoiler get fucked up, what the fuck[/spoiler]

Why are you guys caring about the pairings intented for rebuilt? They ALL flopped. That's why the Anni had Asuka/Shinji fanservice, and Kaworu/Shinji fanservice (literally a super expensive KABUKI stage play for them with the best actors, the best composer and even the muscicians that serve the royal family did Kaworu centric/Kawoshin centric Kabuki drama).
Which were always the most popular ships. They backtracked Rebuild ships immediately after.

They aren't degaying. When the sound director spoke of relationships, he said they were all (Rei, Asuka AND Kaworu) with Shinji a mix of friendship, romance and family love. Asuka was literally looking for a family in Rebuild too. Romance and family love was interwoven with her.
The scene Soryu sees Kaji (her first love) with Misato confirms Shinji's feelings for Kaworu by the way, too. It wasn't that Shinji chose Mari, but Mari was the only one left for him so if anyone got the shaft is Marishin.

>>4021567
>so he's paired up with the closest thing he has to an alternative pairing option in Rei
Okay, but why does he need to be paired up with someone at all? Why does his happy ending necessitate that he be in a heterosexual relationship? Is existing in the world without Evas normally not happy enough? That’s my problem, Kaworu and Rei don’t have a real relationship in the films, them being together is purely symbolic and ties back into themes of conformity with Japanese society found throughout the film that leave a bad taste in my mouth.
>>4021569
Obviously this is true but fanservice isn’t the same thing as committing things to the text.
>>4021572
>It wasn't that Shinji chose Mari, but Mari was the only one left for him
I guess, but the Kawoshin relationship being something toxic that Kaworu needed to move on from was handled so poorly. Kaworu’s “arc” in 3.0+1.0 is incredibly rushed and full of reused footage, and his relationship with Kaji and decision to move on from Shinji is established and settled in a matter of minutes. It just feels like such an asspull to get Kaworu out of the picture, the reasons given for why it was a toxic relationship are flimsy at best and actively at conflict with their relationship in NGE at worst. Really the biggest thing I still don’t understand is specifically *why* Kaworu was fated to die in every time loop. Because he’s an angel? Then what would be the problem with them meeting again and trying over in a world where he’s fully human? Why did Anno make it so that they *have* to go their own separate ways and be in hetero relationships?

>>4021568
Spoilers don't work on this board

>>4021602
>Obviously this is true but fanservice isn’t the same thing as committing things to the text.
I wouldn't call hiring the imperial musicians and the best kabuki that are cultural icons for a Kawoshin play as the big closing event of your anniversary just "mere" fanservice. A lot of love was poured into that. It's not just some cheap keychains bro.
Newspapers everywhere in Japan are talking about that, not about Mari.

>>4021634
> Newspapers everywhere in Japan are talking about that, not about Mari.
Sure, but Anno still wrote the ending with Shinji and Mari getting together regardless of Kawoshin’s cultural impact. All the fanservice in the world can’t make up for the fact that Kaworu was treated like shit by Anno in 3.0+1.0.

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>>4021635
Everyone was treated like shit in the rebuilds. There is not a single character that wasn't assassinated in one way or many others.

>>4021634
> Newspapers everywhere in Japan are talking about that

Prove it. Japan loved it.

>>4017426
Kensuke is the most underrated cutie of them all.

>>4021669
Anno will pay for marketing 3.0+1.0 as the definitive ending of Eva, I genuinely hate engaging with this fandom now because of how ass the rebuilds are.

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Surprised to see activity in this thread

>>4021684
try going to xitter? there're a lot of them posting reviews.

>>4021689
He grows the most handsome too, with Kaworu.

>>4021743
so you don’t have proof

>>4021745
I don't spoonfed retarded tourists, but I'll make a single exception:
https://x.com/edgelinetokyo/status/2025912164771602662
You can try using search option. Your finger isn't broken with the hashtags.
>>4021635
Anno was barely involved in final due to a writer's block, he admits it in an interview. So we don't know how the decision went. And Anno NEVER sees Eva as a static "just anime" thing. An own stage story featuring Shinji and Kaworu they put up and promote in their anniversary is as Eva as the tv show or the movie.

>>4021448
>Accompanied by the sounds of koto (Japanese harp) and bells being plucked in the darkness and the thunder of a large drum, the Black Swan God and the Swan God descend onto the stage. This duet, in which light and darkness, black and white, are attracted to each other and at times pulled apart, depicts the fundamental duality of Evangelion with dazzling beauty
Damn Anno went 2deep4u. I know he likes Kabuki though.

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>[An outstanding second-year student. Although admired for his good looks, he is hard to understand when it comes to social interactions. In others’ eyes, he seems somewhat rebellious and aloof. Fortunately, he can still communicate with a few classmates. Usually, they go about things alone.]
>Yo, we meet again, Ikari-kun. Do you want to go get food together? How do you feel about school life lately? If you have time, I can take you for a walk around the campus!
>Ah... Thank you, Nagisa-senpai. Let's get food together next time. I'm going to go back and make ramen later.
>(Did the second-years get out of school early...?)
>(First-years and second-years have staggered dismissal times by 20 minutes...)
>(Is this the top-ranked second-year senior I've heard about, the one with the unruly personality who is hard to get along with?)

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>[A new first-year high school student in the advanced class. Interpersonal relationships are fairly good; has a few close friends. Forced by his father to apply for the Student Council. During an inspection of the second-year high school building, he met Kaworu Nagisa for the first time.]
>(Why does this guy keep staring at me? So weird... There is still trash on his desk. Should I remind him?)
>(So cute... What is his name? Red school badge... Is he a first-year student? Maybe I should say a few words to him. Wait no, it's self-study time right now. Will there be another chance to meet? Maybe I should ask around after class later...)
>[After finding out the information...]
>(He's way too cute. I really want to date Shinji Ikari... How can I find a chance to let him get to know me? How should I strike up a conversation next time we meet?)

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:3

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>>4021948
Cute!

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Kaworu t-toes...

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Cookers

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https://sxcu.net/7xG5xcl_9.jpeg

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https://sxcu.net/7xG6kfSZU.jpeg

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Giant Shinji in the city!

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Giant Kawoshin in the city!!

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Shingo toes...

>>4022319
>>4022321
link

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>>4022617
Oh sorry, catbox was down so I tried a different host.

https://x.com/himodayoo/status/1604484894536925185
https://poipiku.com/29118/8009655.html
https://files.catbox.moe/8hbhmc.jpg

https://x.com/himodayoo/status/1528773068289478659
https://poipiku.com/29118/6799906.html
https://files.catbox.moe/qiahuv.jpg

Was anyone else here when 3.0+1.0 dropped? The shitshow went on for months and this board was the busiest I’ve ever seen it. Doesn’t feel like five years ago

>>4023141
I wish... but I wanted to watch it together with my friend, and our movie night kept getting pushed back for some reason... so I watched the movie really late. So I stayed away from these boards

I was getting mad thinking about Rebuild again and specifically thinking about how 3.0+1.0 tries to say that Kaworu’s relationship with Shinji was bad and selfish because it “wasn’t Shinji’s happiness.” I genuinely think that Anno either doesn’t understand Kaworu’s character in NGE anymore or he just wanted to invent a reason why Shinji and Kaworu shouldn’t hang out in a world without Eva. Episode 24 was the most extreme form of the hedgehog’s dilemma in the show, Shinji experiences a meaningful connection with someone before it gets brutally taken away from him. Shinji’s relationship to Kaworu (before the angel reveal) is clearly portrayed as a positive thing for Shinji as he starts opening up in ways he hadn’t before and gets to hear directly that he’s loved/appreciated for the first time. Kaworu also represents “we are the words I love you” in Shinji’s mind in EoE. Also, it’s Shinji’s receptiveness to Kaworu that causes him to change his mind about humanity, had he not interacted with Shinji he would have just gone and caused Third Impact. Their brief relationship was mutually beneficial and a validation of all of the show’s themes, it was the circumstances of Kaworu being an angel that pushed them apart. So for Rebuild to come along and say that Kaworu and Shinji are better off separate is just the complete opposite of what their relationship (and EoE as a whole) originally meant, that interacting with others is painful, but we should do it anyway.

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>>4023503
>I genuinely think that Anno either doesn’t understand Kaworu’s character in NGE anymore or he just wanted to invent a reason why Shinji and Kaworu shouldn’t hang out in a world without Eva. Episode 24 was the most extreme form of the hedgehog’s dilemma in the show, Shinji experiences a meaningful connection with someone before it gets brutally taken away from him.
>So for Rebuild to come along and say that Kaworu and Shinji are better off separate is just the complete opposite of what their relationship (and EoE as a whole) originally meant
I have a theory on this.
It is possible to read the relationship between Kaworu and Shinji as a symbol of the relationship between Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan. Kaworu is introduced humming Beethoven's 9th, which was important in some way to the Nazi party (I thought at one point Ode to Joy was used as the anthem of the Nazi party, or an anthem to them of some kind, but it's difficult to find any sources confirming or denying this with some cursory search engine use. Wikipedia says little on the matter, and it would be the kind of thing that people would want to bury. Such a beautiful piece of music associated with the Nazi regime would be something people would rather not record.).
So Kaworu is associated with this, at the very least, German piece of music (if not a piece of music that was beloved and used by the Nazi party as a glyph of superior German culture)
He's also presented as something of an Aryan superman, in both the mundane and philosophical senses. He's taller than the other characters his age, light haired, handsome, effortlessly good at things, and he's definitely Nietzsche's "Friend as a bridge to the Overman".
1/?

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>>4023546

2/3
Shinji having to kill Kaworu may represent the idea that Japan had to put its history as part of the Axis powers behind itself to survive. Had to "kill" that part of itself.
So from this angle it makes a bit more sense that Kaworu and Shinji are, in Anno's mind (if these speculations are *at all* close to his intentions), never destined to be together in the show or rebuilds. It *may* be allegory for historical realities. Possibly.

Of course the problem is, KawoShin is intensely compelling in a lot of ways, even for people who don't like BL. They really do seem so good for each other. At least in Episode 24, and through the long years of fan content about them.
Putting aside any possible symbolic weight you could read into their relationship, or the issue of the way same sex relationships often end in tragedy in media, they just feel like a good match.

In a way 4.0, in which Anno has Shinji paired with Mari and the implication of Kaworu and Rei as an item, in a universe which Shinji creates; from a certain angle the rebuilds did resurrect Kaworu after episode 24 of the show, and Shinji gave him a girlfriend. So on some level the rebuilds are arguably still a romance between Kaworu and Shinji, in a way even more so, because it's about Shinji resurrecting his dead friend, sparing him from a tragic fate, and attempting to create a "happy ever after" for him.

This "Nazi allegory" angle also makes the way Anno depicted Kaworu in 4.0, as frankly the uncomfortably dominant factor in the relationship, make a lot more sense too: as Imperial Japan was roused and spurred by Germany's idealism.

>>4023547

3/3
But the final thought, and where I've been going with this...
I was a blond kid who ended up kinda gay. Maybe bi, but gay leaning certainly.
KawoShin meant/still means a lot to me, and at times I identify with both characters. I'm dealing with severe and crippling depression like Shinji, but (and partly because of my religious background, partly because of my temperament and how I see myself) sometimes I find it's easy to identify with Kaworu.
I was born long after any of the historical realities I've been speculating KawoShin might have been an allegory for, and my family and lineage has little real relation to the conflict.
So I'm basically getting to the conclusion everyone else gets to. Even if KawoShin might have that subtext of history's tragedy, as essentially an outsider, it was exciting to imagine they could be happy together, and disappointing that the rebuilds ended the way they did.
I'm left wondering "how does Kaworu actually feel?"

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In my opinion, I think it's not about World War II, I think it's about gay boys in love forever and ever.

>>4023561
one would hope

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I think they just wanted to get out of development hell and push the movie out even if it doesn't make sense
So I don't look too deeply into it

>>4023548
I think you’re going way too far into it, Kaworu’s true creator is really Akio Satsukawa (who stopped being involved with rebuild after 2.0), not Anno. He was the one who added all of the gay undertones, had it just been left to Anno I’m not sure if Kaworu would be perceived as gay at all.
>I'm left wondering "how does Kaworu actually feel?"
No one can say for sure really. The facts are that Kaworu was originally envisioned as an explicitly gay love interest for Shinji by Satsukawa, but Anno and Gainax staff had a lot of that toned down. I think Satsukawa’s vision still comes through in episode 24 but everything that came after has been a gradual no-homoing of their relationship. I honestly think that downplaying the gayness was a part of Anno/Khara’s intention to make the rebuilds more sanitized, clean, marketable, and in line with conservative societal norms in Japan. The rebuilds remove so much of the messy/weird/disturbing aspects of NGE + EoE and I think Kaworu and Shinji’s queerness was swept up in that. I will never feel like the way they were treated in 3.0+1.0 wasn’t at least partially informed by homophobia (conscious or subconscious) and the idea that young people who have gay feelings should grow out of it and fit in with heteronormative society to be happy as an adult.
>>4023565
This is the most accurate answer though.

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>>4023573
>the idea that young people who have gay feelings should grow out of it
I think this was present in NGE too, just less overt and less critical. In universe the reason Shinji and Kaworu's relationship doesn't work is because Kaworu is an angel. But I see that as a metaphor for a different perceived incompatibility based on physical nature; that they are both boys.
The difference is that NGE and EoE, intentionally or not, end up treating the homo "phase" as a good thing. While ultimately doomed and temporary, Kaworu's influence on Shinji is positive, necessary even for his growth. It comes across as a tragedy that it must end instead of it being something toxic from beginning to end.

>>4023580
>I think this was present in NGE too, just less overt and less critical.
I actually agree, but I think the ending of the series and EoE makes this feel not as off-putting. EoE ends with Shinji and Asuka in a hellscape where society as they know it has been destroyed. What happens to them after the last scene isn’t important, the point was that they chose to survive and try to make a connection despite being in a literal hell. EoE is extremely individualist in that way, Shinji destroys the entire world just so he can realize that life is worth living. Specifically how Shinji should live his life after he makes this decision to come back is irrelevant, the point is that he chose to live at all.

3.0+1.0, in comparison, couldn’t be more collectivist. Shinji is told to essentially get over Kaworu’s death and start farming/fit in with the other adults rather than moping around like an overgrown kid. Basically no time is paid to exploring Shinji’s mental state, he’s depressed for a while and then he’s not. He’s traumatized and then two seconds later he knows exactly what he needs to do and how to fix everything. What was the main conflict of EoE is essentially solved in the first third of the film in a much, much less effective way. The new ending ends up revealing the biases of Anno/Khara and what they imagine a picture perfect happy ending to be. In EoE at least it was ambiguous and universally applicable, while 3.0+1.0 is feels seeped in social conservatism.

>>4023591
God thinking about it even more the way that Kaworu’s death is not even talked about in the Third Village section is such a telling decision. Shinji has this very real experience of watching someone he was close to die and it’s treated like a figment of his imagination. What happened to Kaworu or what he meant to Shinji is never brought up specifically, it’s treated like some strange hang-up that Shinji has by the other characters (Massively different from Shinji talking to Misato after Kaworu’s death in ep 24). And then when Shinji finally sees Kaworu again he basically has no emotions about it. So hard to not read into that and the other choices they made about their relationship in this shit ass movie.

>>4023591
>The new ending ends up revealing the biases of Anno/Khara and what they imagine a picture perfect happy ending to be.
I wouldn't jump to that. I understand Mari represents Anno's wife, who is apparently a KawoShin shipper, but that aside: there's the real possibility there was a mandate to do Shinzo Abe's birthrate propaganda.
Kaworu and Rei doesn't feel great partly because they barely even talk to each other in both the show and the rebuilds. They're hastily paired away, and it's possible/probable this wasn't artistic intention as much as conforming to propaganda mandate.
Asuka and Kensuke as well, they barely talk in the rebuilds and they don't have much between them beforehand that suggests they'd be in a relationship.
And same with Shinji and Mari frankly, although I could see that possibly being artistic intention: Anno's real world wife appearing and stealing him away from Eva (in a way that frankly probably is positive for Anno).

The fucked up thing in all of this is that I think I understand the logic of the Shinzo Abe birth propaganda stuff. It's basically "have children so that we can support the economy, and in doing so preserve Japanese culture in the face of the world economic system" right?
The problem is the idea of having children just to support an economy probably has the opposite intended propaganda effect, because it frames children as economic units, which is very depressing.
I wish I had the wit to turn it around.

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>>4023595
Governments overthink things. The best natalist propaganda will always be cute children.

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>>4023597
I think that certainly helps, but it might also be in rediscovering and refining the art of romance between men and women.
just as a gay i feel i can say that pragmatically speaking.

>>4023595
>the real possibility there was a mandate to do Shinzo Abe's birthrate propaganda
Is this a real thing in the anime industry? I always assumed that stuff like this movie or Darling in the Franxx were just the result of the conservative old men running these studios wanting to make something that pushes young people in that direction but I never thought it might be state mandated.
>The problem is the idea of having children just to support an economy probably has the opposite intended propaganda effect, because it frames children as economic units, which is very depressing.
It’s basically the difference between individualism and collectivism that is the change in perspective between the original series and Rebuild. NGE and EoE really stress that you need to look inside yourself before you can do anything else. The Rebuilds are not introspective of the characters at all, things happen just for the sake of happening and delivering the meta narrative.

>Khara leaked the Asuka short in HD because they were sending DMCA emails to people reposting the cameos and attached the full short in HD to the email
Good lord there is no one awake at the wheel at that shit ass studio

>>4023742
This might just be me going insane but am I crazy for thinking that it feels incredibly out of character for Asuka Soryu to fantasize about a world where she marries Shinji and has children with him. I don’t think she completely hates Shinji and she obviously has sexual tension with him in the series/EoE, but a lot of that is her complex about wanting to be treated like an adult. In episode 22 when she comes onto Kaji on the boat and gets rejected by him it ruins her self esteem, and she tells Kaji that she’s not interested in a dumb kid like Shinji. So when Shinji acts like a dumb kid and shows interest in her but never outright says what he wants or does anything it frustrates her massively and makes her feel like a child. She repeatedly tries to use her sexuality toward Shinji to get him to validate her desire to grow up/be an adult, but I genuinely never got the sense that that was real, romantic love from her end. Friends with benefits maybe, but I guess the thing about the short that pushes my suspension of disbelief is the insinuation that Asuka and Shinji would grow up together as a couple throw high school and beyond. Unless Asuka and Shinji completely changed their personalities overnight, I just can’t believe that someone as prideful as Asuka Soryu would settle for Shinji and wouldn’t at some point have an interest in another guy she meets who resembles more of what she wants out of a man (someone like Kaji who’s more assertive and can validate her needs better than stupid ass Shinji). I mean good on Anno for realizing she would reject that world but fuck the cancerous discourse it’s unleashed into the world.

>>4023591
Rebuild ends with Shinji separating of his bonds of Eva because it brought them all pain. Pain's fine and all but it was self destructive and cyclic. So Kaworu, Rei and Asuka get new "lives/roles" without Shinji.
The thing is that Kaworu's attachment being compared to Gendo's would have worked better IF Gendo wasn't dying together with Yui.

>>4023850
>Pain's fine and all but it was self destructive and cyclic
The problem with this is that Rebuild completely forgets that Kaworu is an angel, which is the main reason he had to die in episode 24, not because of his relationship with Shinji. I think it’s implied in some dialogue in 3.0 that Kaworu is still supposed to be an angel/Adam (also the fact that he can survive on the moon without a helmet in 2.0) but this fact isn’t brought up a single time in 3.0+1.0. It’s completely baffling to me that this wasn’t even mentioned in his final goodbye when this is allegedly supposed to be the same Kaworu from episode 24. So if Kaworu being an angel is no longer important, I simply do not understand why he’s mandated to die in every timeline. 3.0 showed that not every timeline involves NERV hunting him down for being an angel, and he clearly wanted it to work out with Shinji in 3.0, so him dying was just a mistake or accident every single time? It just feels so stupid and arbitrary compared to how he had a purpose for dying in NGE which was saving the entirety of humanity. In the new ending, Shinji presumably makes it so that Kaworu and Rei are no longer angels and just regular people. In that case I don’t understand what is so bad or self-destructive about them interacting again. It feels totally arbitrary for the sake of the meta narrative.

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>>4023764
Asuka's attraction towards Kaji was immature. Naota towards Mamimi and Haruko is a genderbent version of this in FLCL. The kid who wants to be cool and mature thinks dating someone older will make them cool and mature, but in reality this pursuit just makes them even more childish. Naota realizes this, gives up on the two, and implicitly shifts his attention to Ninamori. Asuka didn't actually want a guy like Kaji. She wanted an impossible to attain maturity totem. If she ever realized this, she would move on just like Naota.
And I do think she liked Shinji. I see her frustrations with him to be an externalization of her frustrations towards herself (a common behavior of hers) for liking a boy like that. "Ugh, why do I like this stupid kid?" sort of thing. Her attraction towards Shinji undermines the ideal self she thinks she wants to be. But by the end of EoE she has definitely learned that the things she thought she wanted to be were not necessarily good for her.
In any case, she needs to get in line. Shinji belongs to Kaworu.

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Started rewatching Evangelion and i had almost forgotten how cute Shinji is and how much i love him. Last time i watched eva was almost 10 years ago.

>>4023887
NTA, but if you take the idea that the rebuilds are a sequel to EOE, the universe Shinji creates after choosing to live, the Kaworu in the rebuild universe, the universe of Shinji's creation, is his own interpretation of Kaworu,
I don't mean that to sound pretentious, but the rebuilds are possibly just Shinji's solipsistic and dissociative reinterpretation of the original events.
This would be a really dark angle on the whole thing.

The brief scene with Kaworu in the new Eva short was so mean

>>4024086
was asuka telling him “you can’t even make shinji properly happy” a diss at him being gay

>>4024086
>>4024104
Idk guys.
I'm a big Gaylord National Hotel, just watched the short, and I thought it was pretty great. Cute! It was honestly refreshing and fun and made me think fondly of Eva again. And I'm someone who was really soured on it by 3.0+1.0.

I think you *could* read Asuka digging at Kaworu for being gay into that line, but first of all: if you do read it that way, it's not unfair. He does make Shinji feel loved in the show when he needed it, but Shinji is clearly attracted to girls in the show. He seems pretty attracted to Kaworu too, but Kaworu is fated to die before they can ever have anything more than a very close friendship: so just practically speaking he never actually did make Shinji so happy, and if they did ever end up getting closer to each other than they do in the show, in any official media, and Kaworu had the chance to really "make Shinji happy" it'd be Anno's prerogative to decide whether or not Shinji is mutually attracted to Kaworu. It's Anno's character. I don't need Shinji to end up marrying Kaworu to be satisfied with Eva, and I think if Kaworu really loved Shinji he'd be able to let Shinji go and be happy with whoever he chooses.
Also, Asuka being a lil bitchy is funny and in character.

But I saw his whole bit as more of a very self aware dig from the writers at Eva's use of jewish lore, kabbalah, judeo-christian imagery, and its style of throwing cryptic things at the viewer and moving past them quickly.
Kaworu does do this in both Episode 24, and Rebuild 3.0, so it's fair to use him to represent that in this short for the joke, but it's something Eva does a lot in general, and in the short it felt like the writers were making a cute joke at their own expense more than at Kaworu's.

1/2

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>>4024482

2/2
Seeing this short, since we're going full in on fourth wall breaking timeline hopping stuff, this opens up the possibility that they'll do this with other characters, like Rei, Kaworu, I could see them doing Gendo, maybe a Misato/Kaji special, and so on and so on.
I'd probably like more Kawo/Shin fanservice, but this short actually asserts so much about choosing your own timeline and choosing your own happiness, that I feel like they were all but overtly saying they approve of whichever ships/fanfiction you favor.
It's to the point where I don't actually need a KawoShin fanservice episode, or a "Kaworu finds a boyfriend who isn't Shinji" episode, or a "Kaworu resolves to find his own happiness" episode, or a "Kaworu and Shinji as adults reminisce about old times around a campfire watching the stars short about how they are able to be good friends even though they've gone their separate ways in life"
I probably would like some of that quite a lot, but we've got Yoko Taro's new thingy on the way, and I think I'm hopeful for a new characters too

>>4024482
>it felt like the writers were making a cute joke at their own expense more than at Kaworu's.
and to clarify what I meant a little
It's like the writers saying they know that we know that Eva's style is to drop cryptic verbal references to obscure esoteric things in the middle of dramatic scenes and sort of bombard the viewer in a way that makes the core drama of the scene more intense because of the confusion
And they're saying (to the audience - someone like me) "Okay but you don't have to be so harsh and point it out"

Sorry guys I'm also a writer.
I am calling it like I see it but it's a fair play from a writing standpoint.

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>>4024482
>it'd be Anno's prerogative to decide whether or not Shinji is mutually attracted to Kaworu
No it isn't. The anime was completed 30 years ago. It can no more be changed than a song can be uncomposed.
>It's Anno's character
Again, no. Anno didn't design him. He didn't even want the main character to be a boy.
People ascribe way too much ownership of Eva to Anno. His company owns the rights to the IP. But his creative vision alone did not create Eva. Far from it. With just Anno, nothing recognizably Eva exists.

>>4024491
This is sounding dangerously like those "George Lucas didn't create Star Wars" shitposts.
Also
>The anime was completed 30 years ago. It can no more be changed than a song can be uncomposed.
You're going to need to let go of KawoShin a bit anon, if you're going to be able to look at what Eva is.

>>4024495
All it sounds like is the truth. Shinji was created at the insistence of Sadamoto. If it were up to Anno alone, he would not exist. And Shinji is just one of the more obvious cases. The entire production was a group effort with major creative input by many of the staff involved. And this became extremely apparent as the rebuilds floundered under the exclusive autership of only one of those people. Gainax didn't just bankroll Eva, they created it. They. Plural.
>what Eva is
A 30 year old anime. Its director continuing to milk it for cash because he's too creatively bankrupt to do anything else cannot change it in any way.

>>4024482
>>4024483
I’m glad you enjoyed it but to me I think I just hate everything about what the Rebuilds did to these characters and I want Anno to stop lol. I genuinely think that EoE was the perfect ending and not a single other thing needed to be made after that.
>>4024491
>People ascribe way too much ownership of Eva to Anno.
>But his creative vision alone did not create Eva. Far from it
This. I think Anno is a fantastic director but the heart and soul of these characters was created by the writing staff, which obviously included Anno but was not solely him. To me personally, the best aspect of NGE was the character writing and world building, which the rebuilds seemed to give up on completely.

>>4024498
Sure, all that is true, and yet Shinji is also Anno's self insert (along with Gendo), who he paired with Mari, a stand-in for his wife.
This is also (to the chagrin of diehard shippers) perfectly fine for an artist to do.
This tendency for members of the peanut gallery to downplay a creator's involvement, even the most important person on the project, when it suits their whims is annoying frankly. Anno might even be doing it himself out of a desire to distance himself from something that's becoming difficult from him, but you can't look at big-eared Shinji and tell me that's not meant to be him.
>what Eva is
...Never was about KawoShin
Like it or not, Kaworu was always only one option in Shinji's harem, and the point of the show was Shinji (also a stand-in for otaku) overcoming his hedgehog's dilemma.
>wah wah the anime was completed over 30 years ago and it definitely confirmed MY favorite ship
No, it never did, and it was never meant to.
The problem with 3.0+1.0 wasn't that Kaworu and Shinji didn't end up together, it's that it framed Kaworu, an alien who by all appearances in the show was functionally just a teenager like Shinji, albeit an alien one, as some kind of time traveling intergalactic groomer, and then suggests he gets paired with Rei, which is bad not only because she barely shares any scenes with Kaworu beforehand in the entire show, but because it suggests giving an iconically gay character a girlfriend was a happy ending for him. Or her.

>>4024555
>Shinji is also Anno's self insert
Shinji is based on Shinji Higuchi, not Anno.
>who he paired with Mari, a stand-in for his wife
This was explicitly deconfirmed by Anno when the movie came out. You can argue about how truthful he was being but he wa as trying to put distance between himself and Shinji.

>>4024558
Gosh golly. It's so surprising that Anno wants to distance himself from Eva and 3.0+1.0 now.

>>4024555
>what Eva is
>...Never was about KawoShin
This is true of the original NGE/EoE but rebuild decided to go and make Kaworu a much bigger part of the story, to the point where his and Shinji’s relationship is the main plot line of 3.0, or 1/4 of this movie series. I agree they didn’t need to get together in 3.0+1.0 but Kaworu’s final goodbye scene is absolutely pathetic and makes no sense. We all know that these movies went through production problems and I feel like Kaworu is one of the characters who got screwed the most by this. His relationship with Kaji is ass pulled out of nowhere and his role in the story shifted from the original ending Anno had planned that Khara revealed a few months ago, which was Kaworu killing Gendo and Shinji forgiving him for it. I’ll always wonder what that ending would have looked like.

>>4024567
>>4024567
>>4024567

>>4024563
I'm reluctant to trust these "Oh here's totally what the original plan was guys" that come on the heels of an unpopular sequel. It's happened with Disney's Star Wars movies too, and there are cases where it seems like it could be made up damage control.
Could be real, but who knows. And who cares really?

>This is true of the original NGE/EoE but rebuild decided to go and make Kaworu a much bigger part of the story, to the point where his and Shinji’s relationship is the main plot line of 3.0, or 1/4 of this movie series.
You and I might be on the same page with this.
Of course I'm disappointed with how Kaworu is handled in 4.0 like everyone else, but in some ways I see the rebuilds as so much about Kaworu and Shinji that you could read it as a romance that's almost taken over the entire thing. It doesn't end with them living happily ever after, but it's still very much a romance.
Shinji re-creates the universe, pairs Kaworu off with Rei, and elopes with Mari, and this is disappointing, but his message to Kaworu during the trip out sequence is "stop denying yourself to try to make me happy (which is what he originally did in Ep. 24), I have to make myself happy, go make yourself happy" so you could read it as Shinji trying still trying to love Kaworu even though he's decided he doesn't want to be with him. And by creating the Rebuild universe after EoE, he basically resurrected Kaworu to be able to tell him that. Bringing back your boyfriend from death and non-existence to tell him not to worry about you and you hope he can live a better life is pretty nice.
Maybe(?) from Kaworu's angle it's an unrequited love affair, but I kinda don't think that's Kaworu's character. As the last angel in the show, he's willing to die so that Shinji and humanity can survive. I don't think his own carnal satisfaction is at the top of his mind.

idk
tl;dr: yea 4.0 has some frustrating qualities, but don't think I can completely dismiss it. Love/hate feelings.

>>4024555
Mari wasn't in NGE. Whatever she represents in the rebuilds, she has no relevance to the original story and the original Shinji of that story. Not only is Anno not solely responsible for Eva, but the only Anno that is in any way responsible for NGE is the Anno that existed back when it was made.
This isn't even a shipping thing. While KawoShin is obviously superior, I'm fully aware that AsuShin is pushed more heavily in both the television series and EoE. What I'm saying is that the rebuilds and Anno's modern opinions do not matter when talking about things that could not have been informed by them.

>>4024585
Anon (funny that's an anagram of Anno), I see this as you not only sticking your head in the ground like an ostrich to ignore the rebuilds, but also doing the same to ignore the themes of the original show and EoE.
You can hate Mari, but she is true to (at least what Anno sees as) the meaning of the original.

>>4024588
Mari is antithetical to the original. NGE already had a functional character doing their best to try and help all the dysfunctional people around them. His name was Kaji, and he was completely powerless compared to Mari. EoE in particular really hammered in on there not being a switch you could flip to fix your problems. Even at the end when Shinji and Asuka have proven their desire to live and strive for happiness, they continue to struggle to make it work. Because that's life. It's not hopeless. You're not doomed to fail. But it's not going to be easy.
The rebuilds don't have time for this. Shinji is spiraling until he's not. And then he's all better and everything is fixed. And Mari is the magic catalyst for it all. Maybe this was Anno's experience with his wife. Given his continued bouts of depression even after getting married, I doubt it. And the man himself has denied this association. But, either way, this wasn't part of the original show or EoE.

>>4024591
This.

>>4024591
>>4024594
Nope. Cope. If the original is about Shinji overcoming his depression and choosing to face life, Mari is a healthy continuation of that message. She represents something that can happen when you do.
She represents the woman who is important to Anno, and her disruptive influence in the story, her seeming to appear out of nowhere and steal Shinji away is well in line with Evangelion's anti-escapist subtext.
It's a happy ending for Anno, because the character that represents his wife pulls his self insert out of a cartoon world to live in reality.

As a gay of course I'd like to fantasize about Kaworu and Shinji, as cartoon fantasy characters, being completely cute together, being boyfriends, and being happy together, but these are characters that represent things.
Shinji is a stand in for Anno and for otaku,
If Evangelion is Anno and co. trying to coax otaku, gently, out of their depression and escapist tendencies and towards facing reality, Mari and her appearance in the Rebuilds, what she represents is completely in line with that.
And don't give me any of this "oh well Anno's not really the one who meant any of that or made Eva what it is": as a filmmaker before Eva he was doing short films about depression. This kind of thing seems totally in line with his intention.

>>4024606
Yeah most of that’s true. And it sucks ass compared to the originals idk what you want me to say. I don’t care about Anno’s meta narrative, rebuild watered nearly everything that was good anbout Eva and was an objectively worse project because of it.

>>4024606
>her seeming to appear out of nowhere and steal Shinji away is well in line with Evangelion's anti-escapist subtext
shinji getting a magical i-can-fix-him waifu from nowhere is the most escapist head-in-the-sand ending evangelion could have possibly gotten, the fuck are you on about?

>>4024612
You know you're having the same reaction the people who sent Anno death threats did when the original show ended.
I'm not sure what you expected from the Rebuilds: ie. Eva Again: This Time It Is (Not) More Eva.

>>4024616
If you view it as a cartoon that's not meant to represent anything, sure. Although I'd argue it's not particularly good escapism since there's (intentionally) no buildup and it was designed to make shippers angry. Which worked.
But it does represent something.
It represents Anno getting pulled away from Eva by his wife into the real world, as Shinji is basically pulled out of the story and washes his hands of Evas, mirroring Anno seeming ready to put Eva aside (at the very least to move on to new interpretations of Eva from new creators, and take on a more presiding role over the series rather than a creative one), and it's Anno saying that this has been healthy for him.
I'm not getting this interpretation from 4.0 btw, there's interviews where he talks about Mari's appearance in 2.0 and what she was going to do in the story, how she was going to change things. This has been the intention of the rebuilds for a long time.

>>4024622
>You know you're having the same reaction the people who sent Anno death threats did when the original show ended.
Yeah, and then Anno went on to make a masterpiece in the form of EoE, which already gave us the perfect ending. But Anno needed more cash in the mid 2000s so he had to go back and fuck things up.

>>4024627
So how exactly did Anno "fuck things up"? Serious question.
I'm not happy about things about the rebuilds but I don't see them at all as against the original show. It's a fair continuation. Mari might be the best thing about the Rebuilds, being an overt representation of Anno having moved on, like he shows his self insert doing at the end of EoE.
The Rebuilds function as sequels to EoE, being the universe Shinji re-creates after the events of EoE, they're literally just more Eva, so maybe you just grew out of it and didn't notice.

I don't like what he did with Kaworu, but my main issue with how Kaworu was handled is situated in 4.0, and the framing of Kaworu as a cosmic groomer.
I kind of identify a lot with Kaworu, having grown up to be very deeply religious to the point of adopting an outlook of self-destructive religious selflessness, having grown up around and with a reverence for classical music, and ending up pretty gay. So I was hoping for a happy ending for Kaworu, as I'm sure everyone was hoping for a satisfying happy ending for their favorite character, but to have Kaworu framed as someone who's been trying to hit on Shinji in every timeline, when I myself am a lot younger than Anno and do not personally know or am attracted to him, but do find Shinji cute as a fantasy character - it just gets to this uncomfortable place where these fantasy cartoon characters representing real world things ... it can't satisfy everybody, and it didn't satisfy me.

But as an artist I am happy for Anno if he's happy to move on from Eva and represent his improving mental health with a character who represents his wife helping him step away from the series which seems to have acted as his own self-therapy.
If you weren't expecting the rebuilds to end the way they did, given the show and EoE, that's kind of on you. Maybe you're just not a fan of what he did, but I think it's completely fair from the angle of "This is mostly what Anno wanted to say".

>>4024639
>So how exactly did Anno "fuck things up"? Serious question.
I can’t tell if you’re being serious or if you’re genuinely dense. My biggest problem with the rebuilds is that they suck as movies/narratives compared to NGE, which is one of the greatest shows ever created. *Quality-wise* everything got worse, the animation is worse, the writing is worse, the plot makes no sense, I could go on and on. Compare any character from NGE to their Rebuild counterpart and almost all of them were changed or watered down in some way that made them worse and less enjoyable. The production issues with these films are well documented and it fucking shows. Again the only thing rebuild defenders have is the meta narrative, and that meta narrative was already done better in NGE + EoE. These movies just have no reason to exist outside of being a cash cow for Khara. Eva was already perfect and Anno should have just let it be. But he fucking couldn’t because that show was his entire life.

>>4024645
>I can’t tell if you’re being serious or if you’re genuinely dense. My biggest problem with the rebuilds is that they suck as movies/narratives compared to NGE
Anon, I don't even know if I can be bothered to read the rest of your post, considering the show is borderine nonsensical as a narrative.
The show isn't some well formed narrative at all, it was the writers pulling things out of their asses and masking the incoherence of the plot and setting by moving fast.
It s a great show in spite of its plot, because the people had an exquisite sense of style and execution.
But if you actually look at what it is from a writing standpoint, it's a monster of the week show, with a macguffin under Nerv Headquarters, and they didn't really know how to end it when the monsters finally got to the macguffin.
The stuff people care about, the characters, their own issues, and how the work through those issues is of course great, but by the time of the rebuilds that story is told. The rebuilds aren't about rehasing Eva's "great narrative", the narrative of the Rebuilds is honestly about on par with what you get in the show, they're about Shinji moving on; and they do that pretty well.
It's the people in the audience who can't move on that get hung up about it.

Let me put it this way.
Neon Genesis Evangelion the show and End of Evangelion the movie are hard. They're about very real and hard things. Things a lot of people can relate to, and the show means quite a lot to the people who enjoyed it.
It also happens to be a very successful and popular anime that did a lot of good for the people involved in it.
The Rebuilds are, in some ways, a victory lap.
Anno saying "Thanks guys, I'm in a better place now. Here's some movies to represent that."

Of course that's not going to jive well with people who need Eva to be about pain and sadness, but personally I can be happy for Anno and laugh with him as he destroys every ship in the series. He can do that because the show about a boy overcoming his depression ended with the boy overcoming his depression.
From that better place he was able to create the Rebuilds, and that's what those movies are about.
They don't destroy, erase, or invalidate the original show. You don't have to like them, but I think the Rebuilds are ultimately well intentioned, even if 4.0 dropped the ball a little.

>>4024647
>They're about Shinji moving on; and they do that pretty well.
There’s no way we were watching the same movies because Shinji’s’ arc in 3.0+1.0 is god awful, his suicidal depression is whisked away like it’s nothing. I don’t really feel like arguing more in this thread.

>>4024651
>The Rebuilds are, in some ways, a victory lap.
>Anno saying "Thanks guys, I'm in a better place now. Here's some movies to represent that."
Except Rebuild’s development was literal hell for Anno and it took way longer for these movies to get made than the originals. His troubles after 3.0’s poor reception are well documented.

>>4024652
>I don’t really feel like arguing more in this thread.
Good. Because you clearly don't understand the intent of the rebuilds, why they were made, what they accomplish, and it's boring to talk to someone who can't grasp that these movies are about Shinji no longer being suicidal.
Shinji doesn't kill Kaworu in 3.0 like he does in Ep. 24, Kaworu kills himself by putting the DSS Choker on himself.
You can REE about how this betrays the intentions of the original all you want, but that's the point of the Rebuilds: Kaworu had to die by Shinji's hand for incomprehensible esoteric reasons in Ep. 24, and that broke Shinji's mind. And this was all great for exploring very intense emotions and intense depression. In 3.0 Kaworu chooses to die for his own incomprehensible esoteric reasons, and Shinji is able to move on.
Whether or not this is narratively satisfying to you, it's about Shinji becoming healthy, which is a satisfying thing to see in my eyes.
You could read the Rebuilds as being about Shinji slowly realizing he can rewrite his own story, and after 3.0 he rewrites things again, this time setting Kaworu free from his role as "tragic fated-to-die angel boy"

You are free to dislike this because it doesn't draw as intense emotions out of you as the show did, but that's kind of the fucking point.

>>4024654
Sure. But 4.0 was relatively well received in Japan when it first came out (at least by normal/sane viewers), and (despite my own dissatisfaction with the handling of Kaworu as a gay character, and the dissatisfaction of diehard shippers mad that Mari won the Shinjbowl), it does have merits, and it is ultimately a pretty good and well intentioned film. Even if it handled Kaworu clunkily.
I don't think I can relate to people who aren't able to look at the bigger picture here.
It's a victory lap in the sense that it's Anno saying "I'm doing better with the help of my wife."