>An aging Bruce Wayne shirks his duties and leaves the world as he knows it to burn because he went against his own moral code in a moment of human weakness. Nobody panics. >Same thing happens with Luke Skywalker . . . AND EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!
Not the same.
>>143503448Bruce didn't suck green milk out of a four titty monster
Luke sneaked into his nephew's room to murder him.
>>143503464Fpbp
>>143503448The difference here is that Bruce had to eventually retire anyway. This was just the wakeup call for him.With Luke, it's not just that he fucked up. It's that his fuckup was so colossal that it completely destroyed the new Jedi Order and contributed to the rise of the First Order. And worse still, it's what caused the Sequel Trilogy, ruining Star Wars forever.
>>143503464/thread
What they did to Luke was like if Superman started killing pregnant women with his heat vision.
>>143503448>An aging Bruce Wayne is forced to retire from his endless crusade after mounting health issues lead him to almost breaking his moral code in a life or death situation, which makes him realize he's just not cut out for this anymore, leaving his work unfinished. He grows bitter because he's already pushed away everyone he cares about, and now he doesn't even have his mission left>Luke Skywalker has defeated the Sith and by extension the Empire by overcoming his anger and denying the Dark Side's temptations. He successfully revives the Jedi Order until one night he visits his sleeping nephew and has a bad vibe so completely forgets every lesson he's learned up this point and nearly commits murderyeah totally the same
>>143503503>It's that his fuckup was so colossal that it completely destroyed the new Jedi Order and contributed to the rise of the First Order.you mean like THE SAME EXACT THING that happened when the jedi order fucked up and let Anakin fall to the dark side
>>143503448Bruce got too old and sick to continue Luke didn't do shit for X amount of years while being perfectly healthy, he could have chased after his idiot nephewIt also does not follow that his idiot nephew slaughters the entire Jedi academy just because Luke tried to murder himAnakin's ghost could have prevented everything too
>>143503486t. Never saw Rashomon >>143503503Star Wars was already ruined forever back in '99. Unless you actually like watching an Intergalactic Stepin Fetchit sniff camel farts, or think Mannequin the school shooter is a positive role-model.
>>143503558Luke is supposed to be better
>>143503558>let Anakin fall to the Dark SideAnakin was a shitty Jedi who actively flaunted the Code, and all the rules that were in place for a reason. He even goes to Jedi much wiser than he and gets advice that would have saved him from the Dark Side but refuses to follow it. I would say that their mistake was letting him join in the first place, but if they turned him down he probably would've been snapped up by Palpatine immediately anyway and not a lot would've changed.
>>143503558Yeah. So not only did he repeat the mistakes of his forebearers, but he also destroyed everything he helped build up in his own films. Vader was dead, but now there was a new Vader. The Empire was crippled but now there was a new Empire in all but name. They even use Stormtoopers. Hell, Palpatine was still alive in the third film "somehow". That's not his fault, but it really did drive the point home that everything he achieved was for naught.
>>143503448This is like Bruce taking Dick's son on as a protege then trying to murder him when he goes sorta evil.
>>143503588Yeah but the sequels ruined Star Wars even more, directly impacting the OT heroes, resetting the progress etc.
>>143503448did bruce try to murder his child nephew?
>>143503588>Unless you actually like watching an Intergalactic Stepin Fetchit sniff camel farts, or think Mannequin the school shooter is a positive role-model.
>>143503588Anakin has BPD you goof.At least he doesn't just stare & grimace for 3 movies like funhouse mirror Jessica Harper.
>>143503534Superman aborted untold numbers of fetuses with heat vision in Man of Steel
>>143503634There is no point continuing Star Wars when it's just the Dark Side Timeline.
>>143503698Yes, that's why I gave up on new content after TFA.
>>143503448This version of Batman (bascially starting with The New Batman and Robin Adventures because the TAS version is different and much lighter) was always too grim for his own good. This is a long-running flaw finally getting the better of him as he ages and weakens. Luke at the end of Return of the Jedi has matured into a great and noble man; there's nothing there which could possibly make sense for this same man to seriously consider murdering his own nephew in his sleep.
>>143503588>Star Wars was already ruined forever back in '99. Unless you actually like watching an Intergalactic Stepin Fetchit sniff camel farts, or think Mannequin the school shooter is a positive role-model.OT cucks like you are why the Sequel Trilogy was made.
This is all ignoring that Batman Beyond focused a generous amount on Bruce, respected him, and by the end of the series, he has control of his company again, and is contented in life knowing he has a successor to his legacy.
>>143503486>Luke saw that his nephew was planning to shoot up a school, acts on emotion but cognitive function kicks in a few milliseconds later and he stops himself.FTFY
>>143503763This coming from the man who saw the goodness in Space Goebbels.
>>143503749The Sequel Trilogy was gunning for top tier. PT cucks like you are why we were denied a proper conclusion.
>>143503831>Luke just grabbing a lightsaber blade with his bare handThat would have been so cool.
>>143503831>As long as it "looks" like the OT it's good.
>>143503831>The Sequel Trilogy was gunning for top tierlmao
>>143503831Duel of the Fates was an inherently awful concept. Kylo Ren being the ultimate bad guy when he'd been humiliated and jobbed for two movies is ridiculous. Cause guess what? He was gonna get humiliated and job a third time.
You can't even marathon ST without noticing Daisy gaining & losing 30lbs between films.
>>143503891That's what we call pulling a Hulk Hogan.
>>143503742I sometimes wonder how it would have gone if instead Luke's downfall is an extension of what his character was in ROTJ instead of subverting expectations, then he dies right away in TFA.Luke thinks he can talk no jutsu Adam Driver and doesn't even draw his blade (surpassing Obi-Wan) and lets himself be murderedOf course he just comes back as a Force ghost right away, but it would be better if the Jedi weren't destroyed again at this point
>>143503448Bruce is only human and a major plotpoint of Beyond was him coming out of his shell and doing good against thanks to Terry. Also the gun was only part of it. It was also the fact that he had degraded to the point that he HAD to use a gun to not die. It was a moral failing and a physical failing. a double whammy.
>>143503941>Bruce is only humanYes, and so is Luke. That's the point.
>>143503924Luke is functionally still there as a mentor in the next two films but can't physically do shit due to being a ghost, so the the meat characters are needed
>>143503968Luke is a Jedi Master who faced greater evil and overcame it in his last major appearance. Being spooked by his nephew is ridiculous. Kylo was not worse than Vader.
>>143503968All humans are attempted murderers and cowards
>>143503968Jedi are beyond Human.These are heroes to look-up to, Not losers to relate to.
>>143503941It wouldn't have been as bad if he hadn't burnt all his bridges. I always thought that a potential "good" end for Bruce was for him to retire from active duty and instead take a backseat role. The role he took on for Terry in Batman Beyond, but for all his proteges as well as the Justice League. Even if his body failed him, his mind and resources are still good enough to support the superhero community for years to come, as well as help build up the next generation of heroes who would replace the old after his death.
>>143503448>An aging Bruce Wayne shirks his duties and leaves the world as he knows it to burn because he went against his own moral code in a moment of human weakness. You're doing this on purpose, but this isn't what happened.
>>143503968NTA but he's the best Jedi to ever live (or was, prior to them fucking up). They're supposed to be above human.It's like witnessing a Buddhist monk having a drinking fit with some 5 dollar hooker.
>>143503968Luke is a magic space wizard
>>143503763>Luke had a bad dream about his nephew shooting up a school so he decides to murder him in his sleep.FTFY.Old Luke is basically Scott Adams.
>>143503831Kylo rejecting Vader's legacy and doing his own thing was one of the only good ideas TLJ had and disney undid it immediately so they could sell more toys. I'm still pissed he repaired the vader mask.
>>143503999lol the point of the PT (which this board loves SOOOOO much) is that the Jedi fucking SUCKED! They're why the galaxy went to shit so fast.
Poor Adam fucking carried those movies.
>>143504005Basically Kingdom Come Bruce without the police state batbots
>>143504050They where flawed yes, they followed the will of the Republic instead of the Force. What the fuck did Luke do to improve it?Make mud huts?
>>143504052The actor was wasted, fuck his characterNo real reason to go evil, more plot device than anything
>>143504005The thing about DCAU Bats is you could tell he was going to wind up the way he wound up. For years it was telegraphed he'd become, and would become more bitter, and jaded. From The New Batman Adventures, through Justice League.Hell, remember that Superman, "for years," was mind controlled by fucking Starro, so chances are Supes just randomly stopped being Bruce's friend, and that probably didn't help.
>>143504031If he really wanted to do his own thing he'd have stopped being a darksider Sith cosplayer mask or no mask
>>143504050Yes, and Luke was meant to be better than them. Obi Wan and Yoda all said Vader was irredeemable. Luke surpassed them by saving Anakin's soul. Proving he was the greatest Jedi of all. Except the sequel trilogy undid all that. Only to pass the exact expectations and character arc onto Rey.
>>143504096I mean his life seemed a bit brighter in Justice League, so I feel like for that duration, things were better for him. At that point, I think he actually did manage to clean up Gotham quite a bit, hence why he was able to give so much of his time to League business. But I guess he suffered a relapse at some point and went back to brooding.
>>143503791Yes
>>143504132...And then Luke put down his saber, and had character development. Seeing light in the presence of two of the darkest people in the galaxy. Explain to me why Luke would flinch at a much lesser darkness, decades later? "People are flawed"? That's good writing to you? A character becomes better in one movie, and then immediately regresses in the next?
>>143504132and right after he has the wisdom to realize he's making a big mistake and pulls back from it.
>>143504131You also have to remember that in Batman Beyond, most of the Justice League gets fucking killed. In the future, the only people left are Supes, Static, and a couple of OCs. All your friends being dead probably fucked with Bruce even further. The future of the DCAU gets decently grim.
>>143504172Yes, same with Ben. And that time, he never once swang his saber at Ben.
>>143503486he almost killed his dad
>>143504235So Luke repeated a character struggle he already overcame in his very last major on screen appearance. This is good writing to you?
>>143503486It was a minor dispute about car insurance
People defending the ST don't know any better & just want to belong to something.
>>143504247Yes, while being tempted to the Dark Side by the Emperor himself, in the Emperor's presence, as he was still struggling to find what it means to be a Jedi. Luke fought past that darkness, and refuted temptation. Why would he face a similar struggle on a much lesser scale decades later?
>>143504273
>>143504259>>143504293So, because he resisted temptation ONCE at 25 means that he has conquered temptation as a metaphysical concept and will never think about doing bad things ever again?
>>143504338>2523
>>143504338Yep. Disney erased all canon from the EU, remember? So his last appearance in the narrative had him overcoming a massive temptation of darkness. Then his next appearance has him being tempted by a much lesser darkness? Why? Why repeat a narrative beat like that at all?
>>143504372I was rounding. Sue me.
The people who are unbothered by what Luke did, I hope they never get into power.
>>143504382You can't erase what was never really canon.
>>143504279The same goes for Man of Steel and Batman v Superman
>>143504429>The cry of the lazy fan.
>>143504196That's a bad future that was undone, I think
>>143504429Okay. So in Episode VI, he overcame the temptation to fall to the Dark Side while in the presence of the Emperor himself, who was grooming Luke to be his successor. Luke is not in Episode VII, except for the very ending. Then, we find out in VIII, that Luke was tempted to darkness after seeing a much lesser evil in his nephew. We know for a fact, due to episode IX, the greatest evil still possible was just the Emperor still. Something Luke overcame "at 23," as you say.
>>143504446Hell, same goes for the PT.
>>143504446>You are my Son.>You think you can threaten my Mother!>DBZ fight scenes. Go get your T-levels check.
>>143504404They already are.
>>143503548More than just Luke defeating the Sith, Luke redeemed his father, who had previously slaughtered kids and committed mass genocide destroying entire planets. Luke still found the spark of good within him, and it was Luke convincing to Vader turn on Sheev that ultimately defeated the empire.So obviously it would follow that Luke would try to kill his nephew in his sleep because he had a bad feeling about it, and it's totally within his character to try murder instead of like, talking it out.
>>143503464>Simple and to the pointfpbp, for real this time.
>>143504502I thought I heard hands rubbing together.
>>143503973Everything he teaches Rey is either wrong, or something she deliberately ignores anywaysBruce was at least a good mentor to Terry. Luke was some guy on a rock who didn't really give a shit.
>>143504565Rey doesn't need training she's a fucking walking Game Genie.
>>143503831>It's the fault of Prequel fans that the Sequels suckedThis is a new low for mouseketeers.
>>143504492Yeah, the PT era is good as Genndy showed us, the plots needed more work, the execution was way lacking, while the ST has nothing, not even an interesting eraPeople defend the ST out of spite, contrarianism, because Rey is a woman and because they're hot for Driver
>>143504565Yep but I was referring to my hypothetical TFA where it's Luke who dies
>>143504565>Everything he teaches Rey is wrongThat The Force is so much more than just a super power of the Jedi and Sith, that "life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, binds us. Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."? Oh wait, that's right, it's all about your cholesterol level, isn't it?
>>143504600It's all girl-coded & lame.They turned it into Harry Potter.
>>143503831The only thing the sequel trilogy was gunning for was its own feet and dick.
>>143504620>Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."?George casually ripping off Gnosticism.
>>143504594>It's the fault of Prequel fansExactly. >The Force Awakens is about a galaxy trapped in a perpetual state of arrested development because people can't get over their devotion to the Original Trilogy>The Last Jedi is about how traditions and myths are important, but they require honest interrogation; they shouldn't be used as a crutch so you never have to grow, but instead should be used as a foundation to look towards the future and build something new, because time marches ever onward and we are only what we grow beyond>...but then incels and autismos on r*ddit and 4chan complained about TLJ, so Rise of Skywalker refuses to present any alternative or suggestion for what "the future" of Star Wars should be, so it’s just a cynical ending that just plays the hits in a script that feels like it was written by an algorithm
>>143504338>here's the climatic scene of the character's story where he fully realizes the moral challenge he is facing and so is able to overcome it without being corrupted>but like, it was probably a fluke
>>143504631Harry Potter but Star Wars would be having a functioning Jedi Academy. Think of all the long term stuff they could milked out of that instead of the short term OT nostalgia bomb that TFA was.
>>143504669Fluke Skywalker
>>143504666Interrogation is the language and practice of fascists and commies
>>143504687We did have that, But lazy fans hate reading.
>>143504705
>>143504719https://vocaroo.com/11BKUj5jQQUM
>>143504503It's like beating a level 99 enemy then freaking out when you see a level 5 enemy
>>143504666Kill yourself.>>143504739Not listening to that. Articulate your thoughts in text or fuck off.
>>143504666The Force Awakens is a bland rip-off of the original 1977 film because Disney wanted to play it safe. How is the film itself about how "the galaxy" can't "get over" the original films? It, infamously, reduces the events of the original films to irrelevence.
"Ashes, dear boy, ashes."
>>143504719The Young Jedi Knights books were my fucking jam when I was a kid. Was also a big fan of Jedi Academy. It was all wildly more interesting than "uhhh Luke starts an academy but then they all die, again. :^)"
>>143504739Jorus C'baoth was going to be clone of Obi-Wan but George said No.
>>143504687They wanted short term big returns instead of long term steady returns, they wanted their own OT and practically overwrote the real OT, just winging it along the wayThen they could have continued "playing it safe" but then TLJ comes and flips the tables and walks off, so the last film was just "fuck it" panic mode
>>143503448I can’t take the sequels seriously after the Reylo dyad thing.
Now everyone, creating magic is not for amateurs.
>>143504869He was having an affair with her for years
>>143504837The "Skywalker family" article on Wikipedia had people trying to mark them as spouses/married on the tree graphic due to the dyad thing lolThen out of spite someone dug up an official Disney era family tree to cite that didn't have Rey on it
>>143503448star wars sequel hate was engineered out of nothing (until the third one). luke didn't even do anything, he just briefly thought about it.
>>143503617>but if they turned him down he probably would've been snapped up by Palpatine immediately anyway and not a lot would've changedWould have been taken in by Obi-Wan honoring Qui-Gon's and trained in the ways of the Jedi, without the actual Order fucking him about.Probably would have turned out better, even saving his mother.
>>143505072>sequel hate was engineered out of nothingKill yourself.
>>143505072That certainly is the story you tell yourself.
>>143505098Don't remember the name but a fic follows this idea obi takes dubious jobs to earn them money
>>143505098One of the PT's problems is that it's built ass backwards, with ANH still being the best starting off point, plus Vader wasn't meant to be Luke's father at firstIt should have been written so that the OT surprises would still be genuine, like don't show Anakin going dark side and turning in Vader, don't show YodaIt wouldn't have been a problem if there was a framing device with Luke or whatever but they were stuck with the episode numbering
>>143505072They pushed too hard on nostalgia bucks on the first one while plus all the little misses and fuckups from an accelerated timetable.then they panic hired a cunt to subvert shit and guess what? a flipped shit remains shit. Somehow they decided that flipping it again would work but they did it too fast and it caught fire.Batman beyond told us that Bruce pushed harder and harder in his fight against crime, stopped trying to recruit a sidekick and eventually found out he wasn't going anywhere good so he retired before he could make a mistake.Luke should have forgone the old Jedi ways and found himself an apprentice subverting the Sith teachings of the rule of two to spread his insight without diluting it to a whole ass academy he could not follow properly.
>>143505098You've got a point, I actually forgot that Obi-Wan says he'll do it with or without the Council's permission.
how come none of batman's foes or foes henchmen died from the constant beatings or throws? is it killing by punching alright in his book or what?
>>143503831
>>143503831>The Sequel Trilogy was gunning for top tier
>>143505675Because in comics you can't get killed unless someone deliberately tries to kill you
>>143506035Let's be real here, you can't even get killed then
>>143505856Yes.
>>143506710No one believes that
>>143506710>>143506734Top tier box office, sure
>>143503588The actual correct take is that the only good Star Wars movie is Episode IV. Empire is a boring mess with terrible in hindsight retcon while Return has problems that would crop up later on covered up by Star War hype and exacerbates Empire's biggest sin (shtty retcons). ANH, meanwhile, is a perfect adventure film enjoyable from start to finish. Story that doesn't try to be more than it is, all the lore bits are there largely to give some life and intrigue to the setting, lots of memorable scenes and set pieces, can be watched on its own and tells a complete story. Just fucking perfect.
>>143504031What was "his own thing"? He just betrays his master to gain more power which is even less nuanced than Vader (RotJ retcons [a good one] Vader's pitch to Luke to team up against the Emperor as a wrong-headed attempt to escape his slavery to evil rather than a simple power grab)
>>143504382BECAUSE THE SEQUEL TRILOGY WAS MADE FOR ORIGINAL TRILOGY BOOMERS WHO WERE STILL PISSING AND SHITTING THEMSELVES OVER JAR JAR FUCKIN BINKS
>>143506769>terrible in hindsight retconElaborate. Vader being Luke's father? That turned out really well, though. RotJ is teetering on the edge of being a mess but the Luke parts were great.
>>143503742>This version of Batman (bascially starting with The New Batman and Robin Adventures because the TAS version is different and much lighter) was always too grim for his own good.I think you can also say that there's a pretty clear in-story reason for Bruce ending up like he did and that's his ruined relationship with Dick. Dick graduated and realized how obsessive Batman was getting leading to their big fight and him leaving after knocking Batman on his ass. Even he came back, their relationship never recovered and you can say Bruce probably took it as both a betrayal that affected him deeply and a failure on his part, proof that he can only rely on himself in his fight. Then the Tim stuff happened and it probably shattered whatever little faith in others he had and made him think that he really could only do things alone.There's an entirely logical chain of events for why Bruce ends up the way that he did and arguably the DCAU's entire central Batman story (and maybe the DCAU as a whole) is about the importance of being able to reach out to others, trust in them and allow them to share your burdens instead of simply doing things on your own to the exclusion of everyone else. The Justice League is stronger than any one member, Bruce rejects everything and ends up old, alone and bitter until he finds and connects with Terry. Terry, on learning his true parentage, almost tosses everything away but realizes the path that will lead him down and decides to go the opposite way that Bruce did, accepting it, accepting that he's allowed to share his life with other people.
>>143505522
>>143506797/thread
>>143507045
>>143503448>>Same thing happens with Luke SkywalkerRemind me where Bruce actively tried to kill a sleeping Robin in a fit of paranoia, dumb shill?>>143503464FP inevitably BP>>143503588>>143503831Revisionist Mousecuck cope.
>>143504719>Jedi WookieLowbacca was the sickest shit. Fuck Didney Wars. Kill all mousecucks.
>>143506797TFA was. Then TLJ was made for fedora tippers and Reylos, and then TROS was made for Reylos.
>>143503588>positive role modelWho gives a fuck you absolute faggot
>>143504382From what I can recall, doesn't Luke literally admit that he stayed during in the sidelines during Jacen's dark side fall and war because he might have killed his nephew if he ever saw him again because Jacen killed his wife? So it's just being consistent in that regard
>>143506797Oh yeah, OT boomers definitely wanted to see their protagonist reduced down to nothing, and all his accomplishments rendered void.
>>143507484But there was a functioning Order to take up the slack
>>143507566What's wild is that TFA did that but most didn't realize until TLJ
>>143503548>>143504503A lot of people forget that the reason why Ben was sent to Luke's Jedi school in the first place was because Leia could sense the conflict between the light and dark side within him. Luke went into Ben's tent and peered into his mind with the context of knowing that he had the dangerous potential of turning out like Vader and wasn't improving in his tenure as a Jedi, not out of random chance.
>>143506807>Vader being Luke's father? That turned out really well, though.It essentially makes the OT into Anakin's story. Luke is just a part of it and doesn't even get to be the one who defeats the Emperor. He's a plot device for Vader's redemption. It's not only a stupid retcon that makes no sense in regards to everything established in the preceding movie (hence why it has to be handwaved away as Obi-Wan actively lying in the next movie) because Lucas wanted a cool last second twist that would make people talk, it completely undermines the trilogy's main character and instead reduces him into being a supporting character for the villain who's the actual hero and main character now.It's a bad, stupid, terrible retcon that poisoned Star Wars.
>>143507566>>143507615I feel like what nagated their accomplishments was bringing back the Empire and Palpatine as antagonists, as defeating them was what they achieved at the end of the OT.But people act like them dying or the galaxy being in danger again from a new threat automatically shits on the OT.
>>143507676They all died, the New Republic was destroyed, and the Emperor came back. By the end of the ST, it's essentially the same as the end of the OT. It was Disney erasing the accomplishments of the OT, and replacing it with their characters. Rey goes on to do the exact same thing Luke did... but probably more successful this time? Great, fuck you too.
>>143507662>What's a duel protagonist.
>>143507629If he was really conflicted he wouldn't have murdered everyone else and destroyed the temple
>>143507783Plus Luke invading his mind while he's sleeping is mindrape
>>143507713Did you even read what I typed? I agree that bringing back the Empire and especially Palpatine again shat on the OT trio's accomplishments, and Rey taking on the Skywalker felt like a contrived attempt at giving her another family lineage because her being a literal-who protagonist is a big no-no in modern Star Wars.>the New Republic was destroyedI actually wish they went all out with this plot point and had the galaxy plunged in a state of anarchy where it's like Mad Max in space and there are various kingdoms/factions competing for control of the galaxy. I disagree with the wording that the ST needed "worldbuilding" (Star Wars is a pretty shallow setting and whenever they do actually try to flesh out the setting, they end up just making it worst and less interesting) but the era needed to be distinct. The PT had the 50s art deco aesthetic and robot enemies, the ST could have been Mad Max apocalypse to contrast with that.
>>143507783So then Luke was right
>>143505240Was it the same fanfic where Obi dances on a pole for money?
>>143503448Bruce realized he physically couldn't be Batman anymore when he grabbed and pointed the gun at that goon, becoming the same as the man that killed his parents: desperate man with a gun.Luke, a man that believed his father, the right hand enforcer of a regime that genocided the Jedi and killed children, still had good in him and was willing to die for it, tried to kill his nephew because said nephew was having bad dreams.These are not the same. Batman Beyond is the natural course of Bruce's life if he remains so obsessive, The Last Jedi is Rian Johnson shitting on Luke's character.
>>143507629Except Luke stared down a much greater evil and redeemed them (Vader) and chooses nonviolence in the face of an irredeemable evil (Palpatine) yet he almost loses it when looking at his fucking "conflicted" nephew? The Luke in the ST is just straight up a lesser character than the Luke we saw at the end of RotJ.
>>143507629>A lot of people forget that the reason why Ben was sent to Luke's Jedi school in the first place was because Leia could sense the conflict between the light and dark side within himwas this shit in the movieI only saw it once
>>143508005It's the same scenario, it just achieved the opposite result. Luke feels threatened by a relative being a danger to his friends and gives into the dark side momentarily before realizing in horror what he's done and hesitating. The main difference is that the first time ended with Vader being redeemed but the second time resulted in Kylo.And there is some improvement on Luke's part with Ben because he actually realizes this on his own immediately and stops himself whereas Palpatine had to interrupt Luke and tease him about being evil now for him to realize he was falling to the dark side.
>>143508097TFA>Han: "There's nothing more we could have done. There's too much Vader in him.">Leia : "That's why I wanted him to train with Luke. I just never should have sent him away. That's when I lost him. That's when I lost you both."TLJ>Luke: "For many years, there was balance and then I saw... Ben. My nephew with that mighty Skywalker blood. And in my hubris, I thought I could train him, I could pass on my strengths. Han was... Han was about it, but... Leia trusted me with her son. I took him, and a dozen students, and began a training temple. By the time I realized I was no match for the darkness rising in him, it was too late."
Not the same
>>143508128>gives in to the dark side momentarily>when he's already overcome a much greater trial in much more dire circumstances and has decades more experience on top of itnot buyin' it chief. It's just shit writing.
>>143508128>Dude, it's not fucking retarded for this character repeat his pivotal character moment again, but on a much lesser scale, and fail... Sometimes stuff just HAPPENS! We're all PEOPLE, okay?? Never mind that this is fiction, and every action is dictated by the pen of a writer
>>143508166>Kylo was just... LE BORN EVIL
>>143503588The Rashomon comparison is retarded because in both Luke and Ben’s version of events, he sneaks into his room with his lightsaber to kill him. The only difference is that in Luke’s version he decides not to, while in Ben’s he was going to go through with it. Neither one says he didn’t go into his bedroom to kill him.If your uncle was in your bedroom with a gun because he had a bad dream about you, that would be fucked up. Even if he decided to stop before killing you, the act of going into your room with a weapon and planning to kill you is already going too far.Luke should not plan child murder. That is not a high standard to hold him to.
>>143508225>>143508232Again, much of the discourse around that scene literally boils down to people being mad that Luke wasn't immune to the dark side. Even though that probably was the best depiction of it in a while, framed as a supernatural temptation that plays on Luke's fear.A lot of Star Wars media depicts the dark side of the Force as essentially just "don't make the Jedi too mad or they might kill everyone in the room".
>>143507662>It essentially makes the OT into Anakin's story.I never got that feeling though, which is part of why Lucas retroactively deeming the series "the tragedy of Darth Vader" has always felt ridiculous to me. Vader exists in TESB and ROTJ to give insight into Luke more than the other way around.
>>143508282>The only difference is that in Luke’s version he decides not to, while in Ben’s he was going to go through with it. Neither one says he didn’t go into his bedroom to kill him.He goes to Ben's tent to peek into his mind because he could sense the growing dark side within him, he doesn't activate his lightsaber until after he saw the visions and even then he immediately stops himself. It wasn't "planned" either way.
>>143508332It's not that I'm "mad that Luke isn't immune to the Dark Side." It's that it's literally just a retread of a temptation that he's already conquered, but done much shittier the second time around.
>>143504719>But lazy fans hate reading.That definitely explains why Lucasfilm are comfortable with having the films and TV shows retcon the novels and comics.
>>143508332They literally retread the most pivotal moment in Luke's character, but just had him fail. Yes, that is bad writing. We don't see the character for decades, and his next immediate narrative action is undoing the climax of his character arc.
>>143503448The problem isn't that Luke went against his moral code, the real issue at hand is that he...gave up. Luke struggling to stay moral and slipping up is something even the EU explored, and it makes sense: Luke is meant to be the "ideal Jedi" as a young man, one who should struggle with staying on the straight and narrow and then grow to become emotionally mature as he grows up. The ST fucked up Luke even before TLJ came out with how it depicted him in TFA: an old hermit who completely gave up. It's simply not in character for Luke to fold and surrender. And this wasn't something JJ came up with, this was an idea Lucas had according to what little we know of the original treatments for the ST he had developed. And I still stand by my opinion that it was a crummy idea, turning Luke into Conrad from Apocalypse Now. That idea just sounded awful to me: breaking the hero and for what reason? Lucas fucking stopped Luke from killing Vader (wearing his mask, then declaring himself in charge of the Empire, stopping the war) in earlier drafts of ROTJA...interesting idea, but one that doesn't fit Luke in the slightest. The ST would have been garbage with or without Lucas because the EU and TOR beat it to the bunch in terms of serving as an answer to the OT.
>>143507867No he forges papers and becomes an information broker
>>143508431The simple reason for that plot point is that they needed an excuse to bench Luke for a galaxy wide conflict to occur, otherwise he'd take over all the attention of the plot due to the weight he carries or you'll have to resort to just have him job so he wouldn't just insta-defeat the villains. The Mando-verse shows suffer from this issue where Luke is still around and active so I'm constantly wondering why doesn't Din or Ahsoka enlist his help when dealing with the Imperial Remnant or Thrawn's return.>TOR beat it to the bunch in terms of serving as an answer to the OT.I distinctly remember people saying that TOR shat on KOTOR 1 and 2 for what it did to Revan and the Exile.
>>143503448So like, here is the thing,Old Bruce was still Batman, he just couldn't do it anymore. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xq45gjU8xMhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5R7iYnbkBBIhttps://youtu.be/VrrB-q__rd4?t=119
>>143508389The worse part is that Ben burning down the temple and killing his students isn't enough to justify Luke giving up like a bitch because Luke has BEEN THROUGH WORSE and yet he never gave up: what makes Luke so compelling is that even when pushed to the brink, he always chooses to act rather than do nothing.The only way I could see Luke giving up is if TLJ leaned closer towards Apocalypse Now-esque Conrad-Luke in Lucas' treatment and even that sounds incredibly morbid for a Star Wars story, let alone the sequel to the OT. Lucas vetoed the idea of ROTJ ending on a dark and sad note for a reason, and I can't see why he thought it'd be a good idea to continue the story with shit having gotten worse>sequel treatments has the Republic being in charge while the Empire is reduced to terrorist-cult cells, a reversal of the dynamic in the OT: the Republic now has a superweapon of their own (Bush/Obama-era, post-9/11 parallels are obvious)>setting has turned into a more grim military-industrial complex economy>Luke has turned into Conrad and is now Punished Luke living in a cave after some great tragedy, likely having been pushed to his limits after seeing the sheer depravity of mankind>Rey was named Kira and served as a surrogate daughter to Luke>Kylo Ren/Ben Solo was originally a cyborg known as the Jedi Hunter who was after Kira and her allies>Finn and Poe were originally the same character>the Jedi Hunter's master was an old witch who was alive for a very long time, even beyond the time of the prequels>Darth Talon was reimagined as a seducer and killer of young Jedi
>>143508498And the simplest answer to that is "Luke can't be everywhere at once" even with a fledgling Jedi Order to back him up but no, we have to rehash the OT and make Luke a complete fucking loser so we can get rid of him and stop paying Mark Hamill royalties
>>143508498See, that excuse never made sense because Luke was never as strong as established Jedi even as a young man, and even if he was or wasn't, then the bigger issue is that if he takes away more attention, then the real issue is that the new characters aren't as compelling or that Luke isn't properly benched or utilized effectively.Obi Wan was in the Prequels and yet he never outshined Anakin. Same goes with Yoda! The real issue is that people THINK Luke is some OP elite master and they've let that perception of Luke destroy what he can bring to a story.>>143508568see, you get it. just don't put the guy on a pedestal! but it seems no one is willing to do that
>>143508606This is the truth. They didn't make a compelling character with Rey. The funny thing is, I'd say out of all of them, Finn had the most potential. A renegade Storm Trooper absolutely works as a character that stands on his own. They just did him dirty, and made him pathetic.
>>143504031Kylo was always a little bitch, and even killing Snoke did nothing to change that.
>>143508389>>143508420Retread or just being consistent? Luke was tempted by the dark side and stops himself, that's something that happens in both ROTJ and TLJ. His greatest achievement (redeeming Vader) just directly parallels with his greatest failure (creating Kylo). It's not high art or anything but I don't find it egregious by SW writing standards (it is admittedly a low bar). It's not like Luke's dilemma of whether or not he should have killed Ben was the center of his arc in the film, driving his nephew away was unequivocally framed as a wrong and terrible decision on Luke's part.
>>143508606Even if you do put him on a pedestal there are a thousand and one reasons Luke can't be present RIGHT NOW to deal with this specific issue, especially in an actual galactic war situation. Frankly I'm all for it if Luke absolutely decimates every single scenario he's thrown at, but it's for exactly that reason that he's relegated to the most critical engagements. I mean, just look at the OT; Luke was an important member of the Rebellion, but there was still a whole Rebellion doing shit without him when he was busy.
>>143508606>Same goes with Yoda! PT literally just had Yoda be useless with him constantly blaming "the dark side clouds by judgement" for his inaction throughout the trilogy and then he just straight up gives up and leaves during his fight with Palpatine.
>>143508676A retread, you fucking retread. They redid Luke's pivotal character moment, to make him a failure, and undo all his accomplishments, to had those accomplishments to Disney's OC. Rey, by the end of the ST, is in the exact same place Luke was at the end of the OT, but now she can accomplish what he failed to. Isn't that convenient?
>>143508670The most compelling part of the ST is the ten or so minutes that Finn and Poe spend escaping the First Order. At no point does it ever get that interesting again.
>>143503448The problem with the sequels wasn't Luke becoming a failure. it was making the jedi the main characters again. Cultists make for boring characters because their arcs either end with them becoming human or the world bending backwards to validate their worldview.
>>143508676A retread, and a bad one. It would be like seeing the good in Hitler and successfully redeeming him only to chimp out thirty years later and trying to murder your high school bully.
>>143508675Snoke is a weird character because being a Palpatine clone was never the intended idea for him, and what he WAS meant to be initially is still a mystery. There's always been that rumor that he was Plagueis or some strange third party altogether.>>143508498Meant to say KOTOR, not TOR.>>143508676You're missing the point: it is CONSISTENT for Luke to still struggle, but it IS RETARDED for Luke to give up entirely. The former is in-character while the latter is not, only contrived and forced because the plot is ass.>>143508760No, the real issue is that the Sequels have nothing to say about SW that wasn't already said before in the form of the EU or examples like KOTOR. Lucas' treatments for the Sequels were ass and the movies themselves, even when divorced of his influence, are still ass.>George really wanted to bring back Jar Jar as a Sith Lordokay maybe he had some good ideas
>>143508821Honestly, I just want them to ape Shintoism and make it so that force powers can only be used by magical animals/spirits that you form contracts with. that way anyone can be special and normie humans can already use lightsabers too.
>>143508713Luke having a big failure later on his life and this leading to the next main antagonist is the trilogy isn't a bad idea nor does it automatically make him a failure. Again, I'd say that his biggest accomplishment was redeeming Vader, in turn killing Palpatine and destroying the Empire in the OT and the First Order/Palpatine's resurrection was a bigger factor in undoing what he had achieved.Luke rebuilt the Jedi Order offscreen inbetween the OT and ST so I don't mind if Rey was the one who took on the mantle of rebuilding the order as her main arc in the trilogy instead (Skywalkers shouldn't have a monopoly on accomplishing everything Jedi related, and I do think there was an interesting theme touched on by TLJ about whether or not it's a good idea to bring back institutions from the prequels that led to the Empire in the first place).
>>143508895>Luke having a big failure later on his lifeIt is the next thing we see from him after Return of the Jedi. People don't fucking get this. Imagine watching "The Skywalker Saga" for the first time, finishing Return of the Jedi, and the very next thing you see is that Luke vanished, shit's all fucked, and by the time Luke's speaking any dialog, he's a failure glugging titty milk.Also, what does redeeming Vader amount to? The Emperor came back. Rey defeated the Emperor. The prophecy of the Chosen One was that evil would disappear for around 30 years or so? Is that it? ALL of the OT's accomplishments are undone by Episode VII, and smeared in your face by Episode VII, and then pissed on by Episode IX.
>>143508857I always found fans whining that the Force wasn't universally accessible to everyone kinda silly because plenty of Chinese media and Japanese media has that as a plot point and at least there, it fits given how medieval things are.But making that an established facet of SW would be kinda silly...because it's technically speaking already true, and has a justification as to WHY not everyone uses the Force>because the Force manifesting in people is akin to people being talented: some people are born prodigies, some people need training, while some people are just born with nothing or flat out suck>hence the oodles of merch listing different characters with Force Potential, with the implications being that lifestyles, choices, and upbringings are to blame for the differencesAnd even then, if you HAD the Force, not everyone would want to be a Jedi or an active Force User. And if you had plenty of people wanting to, that would create a shit ton of problems really fast.
>>143508821>Snoke is a weird character because being a Palpatine clone was never the intended idea for him, and what he WAS meant to be initially is still a mystery. There's always been that rumor that he was Plagueis or some strange third party altogether.There never was any intended idea or mystery. TFA itself doesn't treat Snoke's identity as a big deal or anything. A lot of the hype for the character was entirely generated by JJ in interviews (oooh Snoke is older than Palpatine and he was there before the prequels, oooh Snoke was sexy before Luke deformed him). But there never any concrete direction for the character so RJ simply killed him off for Kylo.
>>143508670>Finn is a renegade stormtrooper >could have been a force user >didn't have a plot where he convinces other troopers the first order is wrong Kino was right there
>>143508670It's not a new concept but in Star Wars, it's definitely the freshest choice for a new main character of the movie series. Poe similarly got the boot by whatveer the fuck was going on in the second movie where he's looked down on constantly. Finn and Poe belonged in Andor.
>>143508957>Imagine watching "The Skywalker Saga" for the first time, finishing Return of the Jedi, and the very next thing you see is that Luke vanished, shit's all fucked, and by the time Luke's speaking any dialog, he's a failure glugging titty milk.And I'd say "oh, Luke disappeared and everything went to shit without him and both the heroes/villains genuinely believe that him reappearing would change the tide of the war which drives the plot of the first two films of the ST. That's a lot of respect for Luke because he clearly carries a lot of gravity and importance to the galaxy. And of course the main conflict of the second film is about him being stuck in a rut and motivating him to come back and do something"And what's with the hangup with Luke drinking milk? He's supposed to be a simple farmer again. Saying this disrespects him is like the inverse equivalant to TCW fans saying "the cartoon is totally for adults because a guy gets beheaded offscreen)>Also, what does redeeming Vader amount to? The Emperor came back. Rey defeated the Emperor. The prophecy of the Chosen One was that evil would disappear for around 30 years or so? Is that it? ALL of the OT's accomplishments are undone by Episode VII, and smeared in your face by Episode VII, and then pissed on by Episode IX.Yes, I literally said that bringing back the Empire and Emperor was the biggest mistake for the ST.
>>143509228If you don't understand how the ST undoes and belittles all its characters, I dunno what to tell you. The sequel trilogy makes everything the originals did pointless to retread events, and replace the original characters with Disney's homemade replacements. Leia died pointlessly. Han died pointlessly. Luke died pointlessly. By the credits rolling on Episode IX, Rey is in the exact place of Luke in Episode VI.
>>143508821>but it IS RETARDED for Luke to give up entirely. The former is in-character while the latter is not, only contrived and forced because the plot is ass.Sure but that's seperate from the temple scene at this point. Luke gives up and stays on an island is a plot point that was consistent with the development of the ST from its earliest stages. You may not like it but that's what RJ had to work with.
>>143508957>The prophecy of the Chosen One was that evil would disappear for around 30 years or so? Is that it?The prophecy was pretty retarded to begin with.
>>143509428>Thing that makes the thing I'm trying to defend look worse was bad in the first place anyway!Always love to see this. Happens so often when people rabidly jump to defend something people have obvious issues with.
>>143509318The disagreement lies in how it does. I agree that the sequel trilogy ultimately undoes everything in the OT and leaves it at the exact same place except this time with the new characters. What I disagree with is that just the basic premise of "there is a new galactic threat and some of the original heroes die" automatically undoes or belittle them. That's just a standard next-gen plot.I think what made that premise specifically undo the OT was that the new galactic threat was just the Empire again and revelation that Palpatine never even died. So what the heroes seemingly accomplished at the end of ROTJ didn't even last.
>>143509318Han died because of Harrison Ford's contempt for the role and the franchise. Out of all the main OT cast members, he was always doomed if he ever returned.Luke died because he was basically in the Obi-Wan mentor role now and had to make way for the protagonist (not that I think it actually matters, he can always come back and chill as a Force Ghost)Leia wasn't even supposed to die. Of the plot points that remained consistent throughout the ST's development, Leia being a Jedi and becoming the Supreme Chancellor of the New New Republic was among them. But then Carrie Fisher died so that went kaput.
>>143509659Pathetic fucking simping, lmao. I love how you ignore that Ford came back for Episode IX anyway. Real convenient you've got a defense for why all these characters were shat on beyond belief.
>>143503448
>>143508441That sounds interesting. If you can't remember the name do you have something else to go on?
>>143503464completely the same
>>143503492>>143503525>>143504523>>143507203First Post Retard Post
>>143510661>>143510675samefag
I don't get how people still misunderstand the Kylo thing. Luke had the image of everything he fought for coming undone flash before him and he stopped himself too late and made it happen anyway. It's just like whenever some evil overlord or w/e gets the prophecy of the hero defeating him, tries to stop it, and then inadvertently helps creates the hero anyway.
>>143510787>Why are people mad the guy who believed in and redeemed space Hitler tried to murder a child in his sleep because he might go bad?It's been years. If you still don't understand why this is contentious you're as retarded as Disney is
>>143503448Bruce didn't give up on his ideals and become a worthless hypocrite. He was forced to retire because, despite having the same fight in him he always had, his body was too weak to continue it due to heart problems.Luke just became a worthless hobo that gave up on everything the character was meant to be about.
>>143510820Do you not understand the concept of backsliding, even a little in a moment of weakness? Are you saying that iof YOU were to say, become a pacifist monk or w/e you would not have the temptation to go back if someone threatened your family or something?
>>143510887I am not a fictional character (to the best of my understanding on a cosmic level, at least). Luke's pivotal character moment was overcoming the temptation of ultimate evil, and redeeming his father. To then immediately go, "lol, he had a moment of weakness with a much lesser threat" is fucking retarded.
>>143503464FPBP
>>143511037And unlike Luke we also don't get visceral visions where you get incredibly real feeling audio and visual pushed in front of your face in an often incoherent manner.
>>143511204You know a writer had to write that happening, right? A writer had to devise that they wanted Luke to fuck up overcoming a challenge he already overcame, but on a greater scale decades prior.
>>143503448Bruce physically couldn't continue being Batman. That's why he's forced to use a gun in that scene, because the younger, stronger man physically overpowers the older Batman and is about to kill him. It makes sense within the context of the story, not just that he retires because he used a gun, but that he's so fucking old.In Luke's case, I don't even know why he tried to kill Kylo Ren in his sleep. Certainly has nothing to do with age. Hell getting old seems to make you more powerful as a Jedi. Yoda was ancient as fuck and also powerful as fuck. The story just doesn't really give Luke a reason for doing what he did.To compare it to Batman Beyond, it'd be like if one day Bruce just randomly picked up a gun and shot a guy who wasn't even doing anything, and then said "oh I have to quit being Batman now." People would hate that because it makes no fucking sense.
>>143511204How convenient that it happened for the very first time at the perfect moment to make the shitty sequel trilogy happen
>>143503558>you mean like THE SAME EXACT THING that happened when the jedi order fucked up and let Anakin fall to the dark sideThe Jedi fucked up because they were so out of touch and just ignored some of the very valid complaints of Anakin, Luke was way more down to earth and would not have fucked up in the same way. If anything he would talk to Ben about the visions and try to work out a way to prevent it.
>>143511505Are you fuckers seriously bitching about plot contrivances in a god damn space fantasy series with laser swords? The same movie series where some midget bear people can somehow win with rocks against giant walkers?
>>143505072I hated it from the first teaser. Even from the cinematography you could tell something was off. It went from space opera to pure action movie, the OT was the opposite and the prequels straddled the line.
>>143511657>laser swordsLightsabers, anon.
>>143511657>The same movie series where some midget bear people can somehow win with rocks against giant walkers?People have complained about those for forty years.
>>143503448most depictions of batman going against his code usually result in him giving up the mantle afterwards because the moral code (in bruce's eyes) is what makes the batman different from more "judge, jury & executioner" types of vigilantes and in many way is what let's him have a working relationship with the police.it's why he goes after azrael after hearing about what he's been up to as batman in his absence, it's why batman 66 retired after beating the joker to death for killing alfred and it's why bruce's gives up after your pic happens.luke's situation is literally taking all of his character development throughout the OT and just throwing it out the window. there's a reason why hamil said he didn't like the script or working on the ST>>143504719>>143508417i don't like the EU because it crosses too much into fanfiction territory with writer's trying too hard leave their "mark" on star wars. for example nobody would've cared about thrawn if he was human.>>143503749whenever i hear someone say "the prequels were good" i immediately think of every single person who made their careers shitting on the PT, how george lucas replaced everyone who could tell him no with yes men and how EP1 ruined jake loyd's life.this revisionist history that "the prequels were always these misunderstood masterpieces that we just didn't get at the time" is just pure 100% grade A cope and i'm going to be laughing my ass off when people do this shit with star trek in 10 to 20 years if they haven't already. i mean fuck you already have people like >>143504666 defending the ST.
>>143508365So he had his weapon and he activated it? Thank you for your concession
>>143503448Bruce didn't fucking die
>>143511657>Ugh, how DARE you complain about anything! Oh sure, I was just taking part in the conversation earnestly myself, but maybe if I belittle the subject matter, you'll leave, and I can consider myself the 'winner.'
>>143512012Everyone knows stupid shit needs to happen for a plot to work sometimes faggot. Nobody out there complains when a dragon gets slain by a single hero no matter how stupidly impossible it should be, or when the dragon's steel scales suddenly turn to paper at the right moment.
is there an official body count for terry? I decided to rewatch beyond and he literally kills or causes the death of an event each episode, wtf
>>143512171And the plot of the sequel trilogy NEEDED to humiliate and undo all the accomplishments of its previous protagonists?
>>143503448>stealth TLJ threadWe've been having this conversation for 7 years.
>>143512392The movie ushered in the death of cinema.
>>143512410You're being melodramatic. But you want to know the tragic part? In 10 years, you'll see zoomers reclaim TLJ the same way geeks now reclaim the prequels and Spider-Man 3. It'll happen, and it haunt us all.>"But this is completely different!"Anon, I hear you. I know your pain. But I see people in 2024 say the Catwoman movie is a misunderstood classic. I see them say the Pirates of the Caribbean sequels are kino that critics were too stupid to understand. So many movies that we thought were shit are reclaimed, and it'll happen to every movie you will hate.
>>143512301Literally yes, there is no way their specific accomplishments would not have been undone unless they set it in an alternate universe or so far into the future that its unrelated because in order for there to be conflict after that include evil jedi or sith means they by default failed in some way.
>>143512428You know what? Nah. I doubt it. I very much factually doubt it. Not with the Sequel Trilogy. I will not elaborate. I simply will say that no, it won't happen.
>>143512448Did the old EU fuck up their accomplishments in the OT as bad as the ST did?
>>143512448>I am so uncreative, I cannot imagine a Star Wars that doesn't turn out this exact way, when Legends literally didn't
>>143512449Anon, I'm deeply sorry, but it will happen. All the movies I hated as a teenager are now beloved by nerds. I have been in the same boat as you. The fact you cannot elaborate is a sign that you know it to be true.
>>143512462It's not that I cannot. It's that I feel confident in my assessment. Pirates of the Caribbean was popular with kids and teens at release. The prequels were popular with kids and teens at release. There were toys. Books. merchandise, that all created an ecosystem for fond memories to develop. No one bought sequel shit.Kids will remember Baby Yoda. They're not gonna have fond memories of Rey.
>>143503448The Last Jedi isn't even a comic or cartoon>Batman>Grabbed a gun that was not his as self defense against an attacking enemy in a life or death situation. All he did was point it at him. Victim was a violent criminal and he was trying to save a hostage>Luke>Walks into a sleeping person's room armed with his own lightsaber. Was in no immediate from victim. Victim was an emo teen who MIGHT do bad things in the futureBut you don't care, I don't, no one cares. Here's the meta reason, people had a shitload of Batman content from TAS, TNAS, The Batman, Live action films, etc. So they were used to him enough to see a subversion by then. Meanwhile Luke Skywalker was only in 3/6 of the Star Wars films and outside of comics/novels(Which Lucas never considered canon), this was his first reappearance, people wanted to see him come back for a new adventure instead of skipping straight to the Batman Beyond phase
>>143512487There were two fucking Star Wars video games that released during the sequel era, and one was so bad, it led to government intervention to look into look boxes. Compare that to the armada of Star Wars games during the prequel era? Forget about it.
>>143512487But anon, it's already happening. I went to a con recently and there were Rey cosplayers. I see friends who used to hate TLJ turn around on it. Your confidence will not save you.
>>143512502Wow, I'm glad you have personal anecdotal evidence. I am certainly fucking convinced. I'm sorry your friends got stupider, though. My confidence is fine. The only thing people defend The Last Jedi over is political brain rot. It "owns the chuds."
>>143504031It was. Him trying to throw it all away was an interesting call and he was almost making something of it. Though unfortunately the character couldn't really recover from the first movie and wouldn't be able to be taken seriously.
>>143512524>still in denialAnon, TLJ made $1.3 billion in the box office and is still a conversation piece 7 years later. I am trying to warn you of the reclamation so you can prepare yourself, and you refuse to listen. Your confidence is nothing to the face of time.
>>143512549It made a billion less than the film before it. The film that followed it flopped objectively. Then the film that followed that underperformed, and there hasn't been a Star Wars movie in theaters in five years. There isn't going to be one for years to come, either. Disney has still not recouped its money with Star Wars.The Last Jedi is talked about, because it killed the franchise.
>>143512566In more concrete terms maybe, but it was TFA that killed the franchise story-wise
>>143512593Don't particularly disagree. It was The Last Jedi that woke people up, though.
>>143512566>it killed the franchise.>franchise literally has a show coming out in a few weeksIn 1999, the nerds who hated The Phantom Menace also had the same confidence you had that people would always hate Jar Jar. And then this week, I see an article circulate where Jar Jar's actor expressed pride for his role.https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/03/movies/jar-jar-binks-actor-star-wars-ahmed-best.htmlYour "confidence" is nothing more than denial.
>>143504669Heh, press F for poor Luke.
>>143512625>franchise literally has a show coming out in a few weeksYeah, they turned it into a TV franchise in a streaming service that makes them lose money. Spend $250 million dollars on a six episode Star Wars "season," sent exclusively to a streaming service that costs $20 a month. Nigger, Hollywood is dying. Like, you are witnessing this shit fall apart, as the industry crumbles. Look at box offices this year, compared to the 2010s. 10 years from now, the landscape of entertainment is going to be entirely different.
>>143512496It was Battlefront 2 right?But in their game at least we got a good segment with an actual heroic Luke.Can't fucking believe EA did Luke right where the movie wouldn't.
>>143503448you're right
>>143512428You really won’t.People talk about the prequels like the star wars fandom collectively changed their mind, but that’s not what happened. Young kids loved the prequels when they were coming out, older people who grew up on the originals didn’t. So when those young kids got older, and the older fans got less involved in fandom shit as they aged (or even just died off), liking the prequels became the norm. The older guys who are still around, who didn’t like the prequels back then, they still hate them.Young kids didn’t like or even give a shit about the star wars sequels when they were coming out. They’re not going to suddenly turn around just because you want them to.
Most normies I meet who talk about Star Wars like or have a neutral opinion of TLJ. It's already happening but /co/'s too stubborn to admit it. They'd rather pretend it's 2017 forever than admit they're getting out of touch.
>>143512827"Oh yeah, I watched that once. It was alright." Does not save a franchise that still isn't profitable for Disney. Even the people who defend VIII won't defend IX, and what does that make the sequels? Plenty of normies liked Revenge of the Sith, even if they hated the other two. It ended strong.
>>143512805Young fans also end up agreeing with the older fans in finding the PT too flawed to like as they mature, and the reverse doesn't happenThe ST is propped up by contrarians, prog-types, shippers and actor-simps
>>143511843>EP1 ruined jake loyd's life.That was mentally ill OT fanboys like yourself shit like that was proof that star wars was always garbage for deranged autists. I for one am glad Disney destroyed starwars the fanbase deserves it.
>>143512827>They'd rather pretend it's 2017 foreverThat's all of 4chan on every subject really.
>>143512847>It ended strongYeah, a strong wet fart. >>143507045
>>143507566>OT boomers definitely wanted to see their protagonist reduced down to nothing, and all his accomplishments rendered voidApparently because quite a few of them loved TFA when first came out, Sequel hate didn't truly pick up steam unitl the second movie.
>>143512653Your overconfidence is your weakness
>>143507045>>143513286Almost like Anakin was being corrupted by the dark side exacerbating his already bad anger issues and stubbornness or something
>>143513287Boiling frog effect
>>143503448Star wars troons NEED kill themselves already your franchise is AIDS.>>143503464Fpbp
I already saw Bruce abandon the Justice League, both Robins, and Batgirl to be a vigilante. I argue the cartoon mocked the idea he'll become the one from the Miller comics and fight Supes in armor. Star Wars makes no sense because it already has Anakin to Vader story. Doing the same with Luke just didn't feel the same cause he's not an entertaining sociopath. Anakin would at least trivialize the new stories by lunging at his Grandson and murdering Snoke.
If Luke wouldn't kill Darth Vader despite everything that he had actually done as a Sith Lord, then he wouldn't kill a boy while he was sleeping because of what he could potentially do.
>>143513768And he did not kill that boy despite what he could potentially do
>>143503588Rian Johnson literally said Kylo's version of the story was true, and that he wanted to portray Luke as "the hateful, murderous fascist he was in the original trilogy"
>>143513835In spite of him trying to.
>>143513835He had a weapon raised above the boy in his sleep he was gonna do it
>>143503558this is basically "Star wars:the history"the entire history of Star wars is I kid you not1. one side of the force gains dominance 2. that side gets up it's own ass in hubris3. does some sort of fuck up at a basic level4. fuck up leads to other side coming back 5. power dynamic switches sides6. everyone else gets dragged into the force users bullshit and suffersthis is literally a repeating cycle in Star wars, if they didn't fuck up so bad they lose their history books, the regular people would realize they just need to kill all the force users. the cycle used to take longer but the era we know it's almost generational. so Luke didn't fuck up, he was just proudly following force users tradition of fucking over the galaxy
>>143513891>>143513937Except he hesitated and decided against it.>>143513842[citation needed]
>Rian says he wants to subvert expectations >The eternal status quo is returned by the end of the movie, not subverting my expectations at allHe should honestly just kill himself
>>143514106Why would Luke ever even consider killing his nephew if he utterly refused to kill Darth Vader?
>>143514164He should've ripped off Kotor 2 more.>>143514189Igniting the lighsaber was an instinctual response to the vision he got from Kylo.
>>143514223Kotor 2 is written much better t b h
>>143514223I don't think that's in the movie.Guidebooks maybe, but we never needed them for the original movies.
>>143509479I'm not defending the sequels so much as pointing out that it's a problem embedded in the prophecy itself that any kind of sequel--other than one set hundreds of years later, I guess--has to address. The EU had this problem. Lucas's own sequel ideas had this problem.And yes, the prophecy was bad. I hated it long before Lucas put the sequel trilogy in motion.
>>143514238By miles. Lightyears even, and that's *with* the release version in mind.
How did Luke's character assassination cause the Sith to return?The Force was described as an ancient religion in A New Hope, the only Sith we knew were Vader and Palpatine, the only Jedi we knew were Obi-Wan, Yoda and Luke.If the only known force user to survive the OT was Luke, wouldn't that make the Sith extinct with the galaxy owing that debt to the last Jedi?How could someone like Ben even become a Sith? Sith ghosts aren't a thing.
>>143514738Kylo wasn't a Sith, just a power-hungry dickhead.
>>143503593This. Anakin restored balance to the force. Luke was supposed to build on what came before and make something better.
>>143514738Somehow Snoke existsSomehow Palpatine returned
You know, for all the fumbling Disney has made with the Star Wars IP what really hurts is how they continue to double down on all their mistakes instead of trying to course correct. At this point the only hope is that they do some alternate universe stuff.
>>143514758If Plappingteens was puppeteering Snorkel the whole time and Smog was training Gyro, then Solo would've been trained as a Sith in all but name.>>143514773I'm not opposed to there being any Empire fragments after the Emperor was killed, I just can't imagine them not being on the run or in hiding while an entire galaxy is hunting them down with Luke leading the charge.
>>143514738>How could someone like Ben even become a Sith?Obviously he found some old sith books
>>143514861>Solo would've been trained as a Sith in all but name.That would have been true regardless, though. Even limited to TFA/TLJ Snoke and Kylo are Sith in every way that matters, because being a Sith is the same as being an evil Jedi in almost every way that matters. Anakin didn't need to be Darth Cocksuckius to help defenestrate Sam Jackson or murder children. His blue lightsaber did the job just fine. This is one of a few big issues with the prophecy and why it's an unnatural dead end.
>>143503448The thing is we all already know Bruce is mentally unstable. Luke tho....that was just bullshit.
>>143514900Where did he ge>a good question, for another timeFucking J.J.>>143514957Then he's a Sith.Why? Anakin had a force ghost, he could've talked to him as a Jedi who was rescued from the dark side.Why am I even bothering with critiquing Disney Wars, they can't write a script to save their own multi-billion dollar franchise.
>>143515266>Why? Anakin had a force ghost, he could've talked to him as a Jedi who was rescued from the dark side.An easy answer is that Force Ghosts can't just show up to anybody and everybody, and that Kylo couldn't see or hear Anakin because he didn't want to. The movies don't touch on this at all though, not that I was desperate to see Christensen again.
>>143511843Ppl can only say PT is "good" because they were 5 when ep 2 was out and ST is bad. SEE, they scream, LOOK EP 123 AREN'T THAAAAAAT BAD! I GREW UP WITH THEM, I KNOW WHATS GOOD!!!!
>>143515644The prequels weren't good but at the very least they had some kind of overall structure, the rise and fall of Anikin Skywalker.Also a few neat Droid and creature designs that didn't directly ape off the OT, although that did creep in, especially in the third one.
>>143503548>people are forever defined by thier greatest achievement and are unable to be anything else at any point in thier lives afterwords because they're forever barred from acting like actual human beings ever agin
>>143511315I forget, did that one goon even get a name? It must be weird being the last known guy Batman beat up, no one believes you, especially about the gun part.
The prequels felt more lively to me, I don't think the in-universe politics are outright bad, I just think they could've been handled better, I want to get to know the universe they're trying to save.
>>143512566>The film that followed it flopped objectively.RoS flopped because Disney saw the controversy around TLJ and were so scared of another divisive movie they tried to undo the entire film. They wanted to play it safe by pandering to the TLJ haters who reeeed about the movie being different and ended up creating the worst film in the franchise.TLJ didn’t kill Star Wars TLJ haters did.
>>143515743That's not fair. Anakin was a swamp rat and a dumb jock who didn't understand how the Force worked. He'd be a hero in any other flick for impregnating a queen. Kylo was a nerd raised by nerds. He wasn't
>>143515644The problem is that the ST is so bad, it retroactively makes the PT seem closer in quality to the OT. The PT has three awful movies, but at least there are redeeming qualities. When people think of the PT, they're thinking of Clone Wars or The Clone Wars, not Attack of The Clones. They're thinking of how much they like Hayden as a person, not any of the dialogue that actually comes out of his mouth. They're thinking of the designs of the Naboo starfighter, they're hearing Duel of the Fates, they're playing Battlefront.What do people think of when they think of the PT? Mando S1, Andor, and the fact that Chuds dislike it so they must defend it. There is nothing there.
>>143516169I meant Kylo Ren wasn't in Lucas vision. He's a theme park mascot.
>>143515644>Ppl can only say PT is "good" because they were 5 when ep 2This is shit is true of most popular things
>>143503993>MasterI mean...Obi-wan and Yoda gave him some 1 on 1 training and taught him the principles of the Jedi order I don't know if I ever felt like he was a "Master." Even then the temptation to go over to the dark side wasnt all that appealing to him. Sure he had darkness in his heart but his morals never really strayed from "the greater good." He chose to not kill Vader cuz literally the evilest dude in the world was telling him to do it. Its very clear that's what the emperor wanted and Luke is inxlined not to give them what they want. If adolf hitler is cheering me on to do something I would probably avoid it out of spite.
>>143508166>"there's more Vader in Leia's son than there is in Leia or Luke!">the person that found the light in Leia's son wasn't Han, Leia, Luke or even Chewie>the person who saved Kylo Ren was a fucking Palpatine, Palpatine's granddaughter>Kylo Ren ends up sacrificing his own life for her because he fell in loveNo.
>>143503448>a faggot makes a false equivalence and farms for (you)s like a thirsty whore
>>143504031I still feel like the ideal scenario is that Rey joins Kylo Ren and they explore the force outside the context of Jedi and Sith and find their own answer.
>>143504481You can overcome something at one point and be susceptible to it later. I "overcame" food cravings for q few years and lost like 40 lbs and then later my eating habits got shitty again as I got older
Why in the fuck are people in this thread trying to pretend the sequel trilogy wasn't one of the biggest piles of fucking dogshit in a franchise? Are they actually retarded and somehow believe this total 180 on Luke makes logical sense? Are they doing it without financial compensation? Do they not understand the 'hurr we're all human and make mistakes' defense is the most gay cope for awful agenda pushing writing in forever? Do they not realize the sequel trilogy just makes the original trilogy look pants on head retarded? I'm fucking bewildered at these slop eating shills
>>143504503Luke didn't "redeem" Vader. Vader redeemed himself and honestly I don't know if that would have worked if Luke was anyone but his honest to god blood related son. If Luke was just Joe Schmoe then I'm not confident Vader would have sacrificed himself to save him. I dunno it always thought of it as a one-two punch of seeing Luke reject the dark side and the emporor mercilessly torturing Vader's son.
>>143503448>Same thing happens with Luke Skywalker . . . AND EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!Luke was willing to let the galaxy continue to suffer because he was sure his Space Hitler father could be good again. He was willing to die and let others die on that belief.He somehow was so scared his nephew was like his father that he did the euqivalent of holding a knife over him as he slept when his nephew did nothing. Meanwhile his father was Space Genghis Khan. Fuck off.
>>143516097I think TLJ is a mess, but that doesn't mean I wanted TROS. Likewise, I think the prequels are mostly bad but I didn't want an anemic retread like TFA. It's not anybody's fault but Lucasfilm's that the sequels were a botch job.And to be clear, I think most of the screeching around TLJ was in bad faith and still is. TLJ is still a turd, though.
>>143503763>Luke knows his father will go on to murder many more people and has already chopped off his own son's arm and massacred an entire religion of his former brothers in arms but maintains he can be redeemed even when he's standing by as Luke is being electrocuted to death>Luke's nephew is sleeping oh shit that common sense that wasn't there for his father has miraculously appeared decades later
>>143504235Nothing similar to Ben. Ben was NOT Vader, and Luke had nothing but faith in Vader UNTIL he threatened to go after Leia. Ben was sleeping. Sleeping. Luke already knew to act on fear was wrong, and he stayed his hand against Vader himself. What happened with Ben is inexcusable.
>>143516649>Luke had nothing but faith in VaderHe was definitely uneasy at various points. His plan to rescue Vader did not go anything close to how he thought it would go, which I think is probably what Johnson was having Luke allude to with his line to Rey in TLJ.
>>143508225Its not like luke showed up to the throne room and chose nonviolence. He was absolutely ready to kill Vader and only stopped when he realized he was slipping to the dark side. Which means him preparing to do something bad and stopping himself is consistent with Luke's relation to the dark side. At no point is he immune to temptation or show that he literally cannot be influenced. His ability to stop himself before losing himself was his character development. It's just that in this case stopping himself wasn't enough.
>>143508560I always thought it was a combination of that AND the guilt he felt for being tempted to kill Ben for even a moment. He felt unworthy.
>>143503464Die OP, you cum guzzling excuse machine.
>>143516723The fact that he had come so far with Vader, fucking VADER, and stayed the course is the lynchpin there. It's Vader, and all his past deeds... and a sleeping teen. Where was Luke's moments of fear when he was standing next to his murderous father in ROTJ? The guy who chopped his arm off, murdered his mentor before his eyes? But somehow him succumbing to a 'split second fear' years later with a child of all things, when he now well knows the power of love, faith, and forgiveness redemption by exercising all those things with VADER of all people, people expect that to make sense?
>>143516446I hate the sequel trilogy but I like Luke in it. In fact he's one of the very few characters I do like.
>>143516836Badass old dudes are hard to dislike anon.
Character falls have to be earned. If we see how and why the character has changed, it can work, but you can't just jump into a story with a character who is the complete opposite of anything we've seen from him before and then breeze right past it.
>>143516836That's probably because Mark Hammel is a good actor that can turn dogshit into something at least serviceable. Pretty sure in interviews he said he hated every second of this Luke
>>143516909Yeah, that's like Superman out of the blue deciding to kill someone without someone close to him having been viciously murdered.Or Spider-Man selling his marriage to a Wish com devil. Or Bruce Banner deciding to say fuck it and let Hulk have complete control without anything to justify it. You can't just say, "passage of time and character flaws" when the character is proven to have overcome these flaws. In real life people resuccumb to their flaws but when an entire character's story is built on triumphing, that shit is permanent. Because it's not real life and bringing it up again cheapens the triumph that came before.
>>143516802>people expect that to make sense?As an instinctive knee-jerk reaction? Sure. My issue has always been with Kylo getting so warped right under Luke's nose, which ties into the general lazy nebulousness of Snoke and the First Order more broadly. The OT covers that base with Obi-Wan and Anakin pretty well, but in TLJ all we get is Luke admitting to complacence over "mighty Skywalker blood" which never felt natural to me in the slightest, even as self-deprecation.>>143516836I mostly feel the same way. I liked the sarcasm Hamill gives Luke. It's a strong performance and is redolent of Guinness's Obi-Wan but less dry. It feels like an appropriate development for Luke over time. There's a lot of personality to Luke in TLJ.
>>143516726>It's not like Luke showed up to the throne room and chose nonviolenceBut he did. He literally fucking did. He gave himself up to Vader and spent the entire ride there trying to redeem him. He was goaded into fighting by Palpatine, yes. He absolutely came close to the Dark Side (which is why it's a climax) but even after Luke's first clash with Vader he explicitly says "I will not fight you, Father." There's a reason that Luke just stood there watching the battle outside the window for like twenty minutes while Palpatine shit-talks the entire time.The entire point of the scene is that the Sith are pulling every trick they can to goad Luke into straying from the decision he's already made, which ultimately fails when Luke casts aside his weapon and overcomes the Emperor's manipulations.
>>143517031Anon it just doesn't track. When it was justified, when it was with Vader, that moment of fear never happened with Vader. Luke beat it and buried it.Years later when he's well acquainted with both that feeling and his father's own story, of what it's like to be alone in the darkness and have it creep in and seek to alienate you just like it did to Anakin- when Luke was aware of all that none of it came to mind. It makes no sense that he would just forget and make a mistake with a heretofore innocent boy when decades prior he was willing to let a galactic scale murderer off because it was his father, who he's never known, has no connection with, and has tried to kill him multiple times.
>>143517031>The OT covers that base with Obi-Wan and Anakin pretty wellEven if the prequels elected to contradict it somewhat, I meant to add.
On the topic of Vader, what hits me in the heart is that Vader lost faith in himself.Anakin had an inflated sense of self importance, but it was somewhat justified. And he wanted to be as good as people thought he was, he wanted to earn that and be the Chosen One capable of saving people. Then the horrific things he did made him hate himself and everything he loved because it all reminded him of what he did, and Vader was his shield against it.But fucking Luke... Everything Anakin ended up doing was to save his family. Padme and his kid, when he thought there'd only be one. So there's Luke, the kid Vader thought he killed in a rage because he was too weak to stop himself from falling, the kid who he thought died with Anakin's only love. And this fucking kid says, "Dad it's alright. I love you, and I'm never going to give up on you. You can come back from this."Anakin thought there was nothing for him to come back to. Vader made sure there wasn't because Anakin hurt Vader. But Luke's unprecedented love for his father was Anakin's last and only hope that maybe, just maybe, he could make up for some of the things he did by protecting the last good thing in miserable life....And Luke was aware of all of that and learned nothing from it.
>>143517162
>>143517162>And Luke was aware of all of that and learned nothing from it.I hate the sequel trilogy so much it's unreal
>>143503448>normal human vs space jediAlso Batman didn't become a depressed nihilist, he simply accepted that he was no longer physically fit to do what he needed to do, it's never implied that Luke did so because he became too old but because he got jaded
>>143504666>The Force Awakens is about a galaxy trapped in a perpetual state of arrested development because people can't get over their devotion to the Original TrilogySo you're saying OTfags are responsible for the sequels and not PTbros? Makes sense.>spend the previous decade screeching about how Lucas "raped muh childhood" and that the prequels weren't real Star Wars>disney buys SW and panders hard to OTfags by basically ignoring the PT and making an Episode 7 where everything the heroes accomplished in the OT gets undone so we can have more X wings and TIE fighters and rebels and stormtroopers just like muh OT>they also went out of their way to digitally remove prequel references in the editing room while crowing about how it uses le practical effects unlike the stinky prequels (pls ignore that it used more CG than the prequels)>they also cancel TCW and greenlight Rebels and release a SWBF game that is nothing but OTImagine what the sequels could've been if it wasn't for OTfags.
>>143516097lmao we have the outline for Duel of the Fates, dude. It would have been shit. "Uh, Kylo is the final bad guy??" You know, the guy who consistently was humiliated and lost throughout the previous two movies, and, by necessity of this being a trilogy, would lose again? They were shooting from the hip with the entire trilogy. It was going to crash and burn no matter what they did.
>>143516440You're not a fictional character. Luke is. Why would you undo the character most pivotal moment in his arc to lose to a much weaker threat?
People have this mythical idea of who Luke is, and clearly need to rewatch what actually happened. He was this sheltered kid who was for almost the majority his entire journey thrust into situations where he was in over his head barely making it through and almost fucking up over and over.The Jabba plan for example was a really bad one and only succeeded as a group effort and by luck despite how much he tried to play it cool. Or how him acting so stoic in front of Palpatine only to just fold and cry for his dad. He also basically ignored a lot of what Yoda tried and Obi Wan tried to tell him initially.
>>143503448One didn’t almost murder a young family member.
>>143518792>He also basically ignored a lot of what Yoda tried and Obi Wan tried to tell him initially....By the end, that's the fucking point. Yoda and Obi Wan were too old, and stuck in their ways, to see that there was still some good in Vader. This is how Luke surpasses both of them. By redeeming one of the greatest evils in the galaxy.
>>143518701To change a story of triumph to one of redemption. To show that even our heroes aren't flawless. To show the dark side isnt just something you can master and never have to worry about again. Luke managed to defy the odds in an impossible situation and resist temptation. But he now, aged and jaded lapses in his judgement for just a moment. And that moment was enough to ruin everything he'd built. And now he's constantly conflicted because he feels immense guilt over letting himself slip but he also blames himself for not putting a stop to Kylo while he had the chance. If anything he is more at war with his inner darkness than he was in the original trilogy. Where his rage was mostly built around revenge and anger than fear and guilt. I've always liked it as a fall for grace. Its supposed to be disappointing. Its supposed to be unexpected. Sometimes people you have the upmost respect for just fuck up. And what's more important is seeing how they deal with those fuckups.
>>143518908>Yoda and Obi Wan were too old, and stuck in their ways, to see that there was still some good in Vader.They were technically wrong, but not by much. Vader even acknowledges that Obi-Wan once tried to rescue Vader from himself the same way Luke does (the prequels don't quite line up with this either, but whatever). Luke is near-fatally wrong about how it will all turn out. Yoda and Obi-Wan both had good reason to believe that the only way to stop Vader was to kill him. It would have been irresponsible for them to say "You know Luke, your father won't hear us out but maybe you should give it a shot. He might not kill you haha" even if they believed that was a possibility.
>>143519000>Aged and jadedJaded by WHAT? He'd defeated the Empire, destroyed the Sith, and was reviving the Jedi. The fall of his new Order was what jaded him in the first place. Did being a teacher make him into an asshole offscreen?
>>143519000>But he now, aged and jadedWhy? Why is he aged and jaded? Why is this character who was defined by not being jaded made jaded and bitter? Why is this the default for every legacy character ever? "Well, I guess we have to make them regretful, and burdened by their past decisions, even if it's completely against everything everyone knows about them." It's a parody-level archetype they shoved him into, because the writers had no creativity. You don't understand. Everything they did with Luke was a bad concept fundamentally.>>143519032The point is, Luke was able to achieve what they didn't. He surpassed them, and showed the inherent value of the Jedi, and the goodness they can bring about. Not tethered to old rules, or expectations.
>>143518908Sure, but this is also the same guy who interrupted his training and nearly got turned to the dark side because he misinterpreted his force visions before once already.
>>143519189It's almost like overcoming the Dark Side was his fucking pivotal character arc, and the climax of the story. "I guess after saving Vader, and the death of the Emperor, that Dark Side pussy is still kinda looking a little tasty."
>>143519118>>143519124By life. Luke was in his early 20s when he defeated Vader. Ask a guy in his 20s and then again in his 40s his outlook on life and chances are he'll be way less optimistic. Just because the empire is gone doesnt mean Luke hasn't seen a lifetime of cruelty, opportunism, meaningless death, meaningless war, suffering and hatred. Especially since he's directly exposing himself to that stuff as a Jedi. I guess we won't agree on this though.
>>143519220lol, that's as retarded as saying just don't get mad at anything anymore.
>>143519124I just think people place too much emphasis on Yoda and Obi-Wan being wrong. Luke had unique insight and connection to Vader. The fact he made use of it is significant and it's what cements him as an independent and fledged Jedi, but it's not as if thinking Vader has to go was a big moral failing on their part. Vader was a colossal cunt. Luke still almost fucking died. Vader wasn't an old softy that needed Marilyn Manson to listen to him when no one else did.
>>143519220"I overcame the dark side once when I was 23 so I will never have to worry about succumbing to it again" sounds like the exact mindset that would lead to you succumbing to the dark side. Also he doesn't even go through with it. Clearly he still had the willpower to not let himself completely give in.
>>143519265>Ask a guy in his 20s and then again in his 40s his outlook on life and chances are he'll be way less optimistic.Why? This assumption that "you're just gonna get more jaded as you get older. It just happens, sweetie," is insane. We go from him saving his father in one movie, to being old and broken in another, with nothing in-between except, "well, he had character development off screen that turned him bitter.">>1435192771. Luke is fictional. Why undo his character arc? You have to give intent behind that.2. He faced the equivalent of Satan, and overcame temptation from him. He got spooked by a bad feeling from his nephew, and almost murdered him? This level of regression is "acceptable" to you?>>143519309There's a difference between worrying about it, and doing something completely retarded and out of character. "He didn't go through with it." Nigger, if I went into your room with a loaded gun, and loomed over your bed, would you ever trust me, even if I "didn't shoot"?
>>143519296I think people forget that the Jedi killed people all the time when they found it necessary. They tried to avoid it whenever possible and they didn't relish in killing their enemies but it's not like they were completely opposed to cutting their losses and killing someone. Luke having a familial connection is probably what made him want to have faith in Vader. And it's what made Vader finally open his eyes and do the right thing.
>>143519353I mean he didnt bring his lightsaber to kill Kylo. He just always keeps the light saber on him at all times. So in this scenario you have to also keep the context that I'm a person who is literally always carrying a loaded gun.
>>143519396You loom over my bed with a loaded gun in your possession, while I'm trying to sleep, and I'm gonna think you're a psychopath.
>>143519414Oh for sure. Its why it's Luke's lowest point.
>>143519436And an out of character one. He entered that room, with the thought of needing to murder his nephew. When he previously redeemed Space Himmler. He can stare down Vader, but decades more of training has him spooked over a teenager? A teenager being influenced by the same man he overcame decades prior (The Emperor)?
>>143519467He entered that room to analyze the darkness in his heart. He was overwhelmed by what he saw and in a moment he saw him as his enemy and armed himself. He did not enter that room with the intention to harm Ben. Overcoming vader and palpitine still involved drawing a light saber back then too. He redeemed people who were grown ass men who didn't care if he threatened them cuz they could fight back. Drawing a light saber on Vader wasn't a deal breaker. Which is good because he absolutely did that. Here hes in a position of power and the mere act of activating a light saber is seen as a failure regardless of intent or not. The parameters are not equal.
>>143519467You guys are basically saying he should not act or behave human.
>>143519540>He was overwhelmed by what he sawWhy? Kylo was not worse than Vader. The person who was influence Kylo was ultimately the Emperor, who Luke had already faced. Even ignoring Episode IX, Snoke was a joke that got killed. There is nothing tangibly for Luke to be overwhelmed by. The only explanation is "he slipped up," which is retarded fucking writing. "Hey, we all make mistakes!" Except for the myriad of reasons why this one mistake is ridiculous in the context of the character.
>>143519582Luke is not human. He is a fictional character. Your only argument for why he should totally regress from his character arc is that "humans sometimes fuck up." "My bad, bro." That is a weak-ass fucking argument for why the climax of the Original Trilogy should be undone.
>>143516355>Rey joins Kylo Ren and they explore each other's bodies.ftfy
>>143519582>You guys are basically saying he should not act or behave human.
>>143519582Just the opposite, what they wrote him doing in the last jedi was him not acting human. Him acting human would be him not jumping to the most extreme conclusion from an out of context vision.
>>143519602What a retarded statement. If he isn't meant to be human why the fuck does he look the way he does and not anything else? Why does any character in a story look human?
>>143519738Your definition of "acting human" is becoming a heinous piece of shit for virtually no reason.
>>143511315>because the younger, stronger man physically overpowers the older Batman and is about to kill him.That's not even really what happens, Batman keels over from chest pain like he's about to have a heart attack.
>>143519738Luke is not a factual breathing human living in the real world like you or I. He is a fictional character where a real life tangible person dictates his actions and arcs. Luke's arc in The Original Trilogy involved him becoming a Jedi, redeeming his father, and overcoming the Dark Side. The Sequel Trilogy penned him as becoming jaded, and tempted to kill his nephew over a bad feeling he had, which is a ridiculous regression from seeing goodness is one of the galaxy's greatest evils.
>>143519790Yes, tempted through a vision, you know like a waking nightmare where you sometimes do things unconsciously before you wake back up?
>>143519602He's a fictional character meant to mirror the human condition. If you write a character that doesn't go through the same things a human goes through while having the veneer of every human attribute except the bad ones I guess. That is also not a very well written character. Being a fictional character does not absolve him of being human and vice versa.
>>143519835So what tempted him? A figure that Luke had already overcome before, when he was decades weaker?
>>143519609Episode IX is just Rey and Kylo fucking with force powers.
>>143519876>meant to mirror the human condition??? Where you getting that? Where is it that the human condition involves you naturally becoming jaded and bitter as you age? That sounds like a fucking "you" problem to me. Maybe go see a doctor about depression, or some shit. You can write a character having struggles. Having them repeat a struggle that previously conquered, only for them to fail to something much lesser, and easier to face, after decades of experience, is what's ridiculous.
>>143519883Have you ever heard of soldiers having war flashbacks. It could VERY well be triggered by a memory of a guy they successfully killed abd overcame. Just because you "conquered" something doesn't mean you're suddenly not afraid of it anymore. In fact it may be even more unnerving to sense something you long since thought dead is still alive.
>>143519921Yeah, so cause I have worries about the Emperor, I guess I'll loom over my nephew's bed, contemplating if I have to kill him. That's psychopath behavior. Luke would sooner talk it out with Ben before anything else.
>>143519908The fact that we're arguing about star wars is a symptom of becoming jaded. If we weren't we'd just agree to disagree amd move on with our lives. Why does me being wrong about liking something bother you so much. Is it cuz you hated a thing and want everyone to hate it too? Is it cuz youve had this argument a million times and you're sick of it? Is it cuz star wars means a lot to you and the sequel films made you upset? Congratulations. You're jaded.
If you relate to ST Luke or Kylo Ren, you are a piece of shitNo ifs or buts about it
>>143519963>The fact that we're arguing about star wars is a symptom of becoming jaded.That is insane. I can talk about a fictional movie franchise however I want. That does not make me a bitter and jaded person. I'm assuming at this point you're ESL, and don't even know the words you're using.
>>143519957The movie literally showed that Luke saw everything bad that actually did happen in the sequels happening because of him in a sudden flash.
>>143520066Well that's very convenient that the writers were able to overwhelm Luke with a character destroying power like that. "Hm, why did Luke do this? Welllllll, I guess I'll just make him go insane for a quick moment. That's good writing."
>>143520092They already showed how vivid those visions are in past movies though, even in the one right before with Rey falling on her ass in terror because she thought it was so real.
>>143504666None of that has anything to do with the prequel trilogy or people who like it.
The sequels and the prequels are both bad.And YOU are gay
>>143520424>YOU are gayTakes one to know one.
>>143518683Kylo unironically should have been the main character and the trilogy ending with him winning.But that would be too ballsy for Disney, let alone a kids franchise.
>>143519587Didn't he see a vision of Ben comitting evil acts like killing the other students amd shit?
>>143520693His father was an accomplice in blowing up an entire fucking planet.
>>143520714Yes, and?
>>143520738Luke redeemed his father for sins he actually committed, while feeling threatened as scared over sins Kylo had yet to. It's like climbing a mountain, and then getting the jitters at a foothill.
>>143520782And je still raised his lightsaber against him when he was about to get killed by him. Just like how he ignited his lightsaber when he saw Ben as an enemy about to kill him.
>>143520804Luke threw away his light saber ultimately against Vader. A pivotal character development moment. Raising it again is character regression. Over something much lesser.
>>143504503Would it have been better if Luke was constantly trying to convince everyone that Kylo could still be changed or would everyone just call him a weak cuck in the face of his nephew being a piece of colossal shit. Really the issue is the sequel trilogy, it was doomed from the start and even if they did something right it'd be shit on due to everything else that was done wrong
>>143520852Luke still seeing the good in Kylo would have at least been in character, yes. You could even have him critiqued for this, if you wanted to "deconstruct" Luke. There's plenty of mileage you could get out of Luke saving his father, who was a child murdering dictator.
>>143520881>dictatorBeing a dictator isn't bad in and of itself, it is using that power to be a tyrant.
>>143503448Dunno OP, Batman Beyond didn't show Bruce trying to murder Terry out of some paranoic delusion.
>>143504666Who makes the movies? The studio, or the fans? Trying to pass the buck onto the fans, when they have no control over what gets made, is embarrassing. Another point: your descriptions of what was good about the sequel trilogy are entirely subjective. Has it occurred to you that everybody knows that TLJ is supposed to be about interrogating old legends, but everybody else believes it fell flat? At the end of the day, everybody has the right to like or dislike whatever they want. People won't be bullied into liking it by your posts, nor will they be shamed for the outcome of a film they had nothing to do with.
>>143520804Yes you fucking retard Luke drew his weapon to defend himself from Vader but repeatedly told Vader he didn't want to fight, which is perfectly in-line with the teachings he received from Yoda that the Force is for defense, not attack. Yet decades later as a seasoned Jedi Master he gets spooked and raises his lightsaber to attack and murder a sleeping, defenseless member of his own family? You can talk about MUH VISIONS and MUH INSTINCT all you want but don't pretend it's good writing or makes any fucking sense.
>>143504666Yeah, think about how good Star Wars would be if it wasn't for those pesky fans. The fans have distracted the franchise from what it could be and ruined Star Wars because of their love of...Star WarsHow entitled can they get, demanding that Star Wars be like Star Wars? What an unreasonable demandThese fanboys always put the blame for the movie on the people who made the movie, instead of where it really lies (themselves). As a result, Star Wars has lost its heart and soul (the soul being making money)
>>143518792>Or how him acting so stoic in front of Palpatine only to just fold and cry for his dad.That how evil was defeated, dumbass.
>>143503448>his dutiesHuh? He doesn't owe the world shit. He just stops crime for fun.
>>143521068The thing about fans is you need to have a good filter, because not every one has good ideas worth listening to.
>>143518878Tell that to Jason Todd.
>>143505522Pretty sure Rian was also helping with TFA, and Abrams fucks off because he can't handle the pressure of doing all three movies.
>>143521001No, he raised his lightsaber to attack the fully grown Ben about to attack him in the vision.
>>143521986Yeah, nobody here who complains about TLJ actually saw it, they only go by here say from youtube griftoids.
>>143520627Damn right. Now spread em, sweet cheeks.
>>143522437Extremely mtf post, enjoy the transition sista.
>>143521986>to attack the fully grown BenWho was sleeping and defenseless. Your point?>>143522437Please fuck off, nobody will ever like the New Trilogy, dude. Especially after "Somehow, Emperor Palpatine has returned". That was the point of no return.
>>143522516"Somehow, Emperor Palpatine has returned" was YOUR doing, because you rejected Rian's Kino. TAKE RESPONSIBILITY.
>>143522486
>>143503448A couple of reasons. Batman Beyond is an AU, it's not the definitive end for the character. Also they actually too advantage of the story possibilities of Bruce Wayne being older and jaded, passing on the torch to a younger and brasher successor. Lastly, Bruce suffering a heart attack and on death's door using a gun to save himself while being immediately disgusted with himself is quite a bit different from immediately resorting to killing your nephew just because of force visions.
>>143522516>Who was sleeping and defenselessThat wasn't the one he thought he was fighting.
>>143522654>Luke just had a psychotic episode that destroyed his character. Don't question it, chud. The ONLY archetype for legacy characters is to make them bitter and jaded. We HAD to get Luke to that point SOMEHOW
>>143519738Hate to break it to you anon but Luke Skywalker doesn't actually exist, he's fictional. >>143519963>The fact that we're arguing about star wars is a symptom of becoming jadedNo it isn't you fag. Lighten up
>>143522684I don't like how Luke's arc ended in TLJ either, but you're just being retarded. Luke saw a vision of him being attacked by a fully grown Ben, he raised his lightsaber against it, and it wore off at the wrong time. That's it.
>>143522951Stop lying.
>>143522951And this was the writer's catalyst to destroy Luke's hopes and dreams, and tightly fit him into the "jaded, cynical old has-been" archetype that they were comfortable writing, as opposed to actually thinking what Luke Skywalker would wind up as decades later.What they wrote Luke as was fundamentally a bad decision, and the backlash over it makes it undeniable. If it was good, then people wouldn't be bitching about it seven years later.
>>143504666The prequel trilogy also sucks because it feels compelled to insert just about every character from the OT besides Han Solo into the story despite it not making any sense why these characters' backstories intertwine with each other. That's the entire reason why the "he was a good friend" meme came to be.
>>143523068>besides Han SoloThis almost happened too.
Idk how people defend the last jedi. It's a fucking 2.5 hour movie where literally nothing happens. How onions addicted do you have to be?
>>143522795Yes, and? He's clearly still meant to be a human who is and does in fact act like a human and has human flaws. There's a good reason why characters who are too perfect get shit on for being Mary Sues and shit.
>>143508282>>143508365>>143511844What really bothers me is the fact that Luke used a lightsaber to kill someone in their sleep. It's like going to kill someone in their sleep with a knife, but you think it's a little too discreet, so you light a road flare first.
>>143523224>>>143519756
>>143512428not gonna happen the prequel had a fuck tone of media made adjacent with the movies and good fucking games, meanwhile disney havent spoke or made anything since the last movie on the sequels era
>>143523323>can't even make his own argument and just has to link to someone else's literal non answer that means nothing.
>>143523068Apart from maybe Chewbacca I can't think of anyone from the OT who appeared in the PT that didn't belong.>R2 and 3POThey're the secret main characters of Star Wars and if you haven't figured this out yet then you're honestly kind of stupid.
Rian subverted my expectation of movies to have plots.
>>143523496How can you forget Boba Fett?
>>143523496>They're the secret main characters of Star WarsNot really. The frame device being the recollection of the droids is an interesting idea but it's not something captured by or consistent with the films. And yes, Anakin building C-3PO is retarded.
>>143523676Cause he's an extremely forgettable character who doesn't actually do anything noteworthy in the movies except job to a blind guy
>>143523703You're honestly kind of stupid
>>143523756But they made his dad the entire basis for the clones in the clone wars, a character that did little but look cool then job hard.
>>143523779The apple didn't get cloned far away from the tree I guess
>>143503448Star Wars is more like a classic good vs. evil narrative, while Batman had explored darker and more complicated themes plenty of times in the past. Plus Bruce is different. He catches himself justifiably pointing a gun in self-defense, but realizes he's breaking his own code and calls it quits. Luke contemplates and prepares to kill a kid. Taking an archetypal heroic character and making him into someone willing to kill a child like that is way worse.Plus Luke being a bitter old man (a grosser one too) feels more off than Bruce being one. Bruce was always distanced from relationships and serious.
>>143523775lol
Bump.
Why the fuck is Finn so obsessed with Rey? I personally think it's funny as fuck.>Poe says Finn must have a million questions>Finn doesn't, he has 1 and it's "Where's Rey"
>>143523839It also diminishes every time he shows up in anything else because we already know he fails, does absolutely nothing of value, and dies a bitter old hermit
>>143519000>To change a story of triumph to one of redemptionThat was the entire point of Anakin and Vader.>To show that even our heroes aren't flawlessAnakin and Obi-Wan already did that. It wasn't needed with Luke. Luke was the triumph after so many flaws. The one who actually learned from their mistakes.>To show the dark side isnt just something you can master and never have to worry aboutBut it is. Yoda proved that. Obi-Wan proved that. A bright enough light always keeps the dark side at bay and shines on. That's the point of the Light side.>But he now, aged and jaded lapses in his judgement for just a momentWhich shouldn't have happened because he faced fa greater odds in the past and remained strong. And he's only stronger and wiser and more experienced as he gets older.>If anything he is more at war with his inner darkness than he was in the original trilogyWhich should not happen when he has Yoda, Ben, and fucking Anakin around to guide him against the darkness. All their mistakes should be taught to him so they know never to underestimate the dark side again.
>>143518908>>143519032You know, it always annoys the hell out of me when people, not you specifically ofc, put the onus on Obi-Wan and Yoda for pitting Luke against Vader. Like, really? I never thought Yoda and Obi-Wan were wrong about Vader at all. They were exactly right, because Vader did NOT want to be redeemed. It took watching the son he'd been willing to strike down being tortured to death before his very eyes, when he offered him up on a silver platter, to finally kick his ass in gear. After everything Vader did Yoda and Obi-Wan were extremely justified by thinking that he was too far gone, and even Vader himself thought that. That's not stuck in their ways, that's just basic assessment of the situation. Obi-wan watched him kill kids and nearly strangle his pregnant wife to death, and then tried to bring him back from the dark side and was rejected. Vader was given chances, and he rejected them wholesale.Luke was a pure shot in the dark, pun intended. But no reasonable person would or should have said, "Yeah kid, lets bring you to your murderous father who tried to kill you before, has no filial sentiment toward you because he hates everything to do with the man he used to be, has cut your hand off, and will sell your booty to his master, and try one last time to bring him back from the brink."It was pure, dumb luck that Luke even existed and was around to show Vader someone still loved him despite everything he did. That's not a failure of the Jedi or their teachings though, that's just a plain old Miracle
>>143519540>He was overwhelmed by what he saw and in a moment he saw him as his enemy and armed himself...But he never did this when he was standing next to the very gaping pit of the Dark Side that was Palpatine, or the storming nexus that was Vader. He never reacted out of pure fear against two far greater threats, he was composed until they actively, blatantly threatened him.Ben was sleeping.
>Hey Father I know you're a child murdering genocidal maniac with dissaociative personality disorder and stockholm syndrome after murdering the people who trusted and relied and looked up to you all to save my mother who you then tried to kill because you were hopped up on Dark Side juice and you also were willing to kill me when you knew I was your son and my sister who you were willing to torture... but I still love you Dad. I believe there's good in youvs>Listen here you little big nosed shit, you're my sister's kid and you're loving ly named after my mentor but if I ever catch even a fucking whiff of you doing some sideways shit, I mean even a fucking MODICUM of some shady even grayzoned shenanigans, I'm gonna do to you what Obi-Wan did to my father. Yes you're my nephew and I damn near raised you along with your parents, only one person in this family gets a hallpass and that was my fucking father. Straighten up and fly right or get ready to fall into the lava like he did bitch.Funny how that works.
>>143522967How am I lying?
>>143523775Any actual argument?
>>143526628Are you being an idiot on purpose or something? Luke didn't go up to them with the intention of basically mind scanning/sensing them. With Kylo he was told by his sister to train him and look out because she senses the dark side in him.
>>143526856What is there to argue?
bump
>>143527044Why Anakin building C-3P0 was at all a good idea or made any sense.
>>143521840The original intent was to have 3 different directors for the new trilogy. Unfortunately the second director spent the entire time burning down everything the first movie set up and pissed on the ashes, then fucked off because it wasn't his problem anymore.
>>143508560I'll take it over the retarded explanation that the New Republic is still the underdogs because after deciding "war bad" they shut down their entire military. The few ships that were around the planet the Super Duper Deathstar nuked was the entirely of their military might.
>>143509318>Han died pointlessly.It was the only way they could convince Harrison Ford to come back for the new trilogy. He was the only one that wasn't contracted for more movies, and his condition for coming back as Han Solo is being killed in the first movie in such a way that he could never come back.
>>143528422>gets brought back anyway for RoSW>gets ruined as Indiana Jones
>>143516982>Pretty sure in interviews he said he hated every second of this LukeThose pictures of Hamil looking like he was seconds away from beating Rian to death with his chair was my favorite thing to come out of this shit trilogies.
>>143503448>Same thing happens with Luke Skywalker . . . AND EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!Because it's out of character. Luke had already redeemed a far worse villain in the face of Darth Vader and resisted the allure of the dark side despite the best efforts of the Emperor, who is basically the Devil in the Star Wars universe. And he did that as a young man with barely any training, just going off his ideals and faith in his father. An experienced Master Luke should be above this shit.
>>143503558Yeah. That's the problem. Luke succeeded where his father failed.That was kinda the point. He resisted the Emperor and the dark side when his father couldn't, and that gave Vader the strength to break free.
>>143528800>>143504338
>>143524682
If you like the sequels, you are mtf. It's a simple fact.
>>143529325Yes
>>143529325Luke after RotJ has everything he could ever want, there's nothing to tempt him with, a time skip shouldn't change that, he'd only grow happier, stronger and wiser with age.They may as well have said "And Luke Skywalker lived happily ever after. The End."Instead, Palpatine came back "Somehow" and ruined not only Luke's entire fucking life, but also his legacy, both in-universe and IRL.
>>143503448Both is fucking garbage. The fact that there are even people who call themselves "fans" of superhero genre who praise superheroes putting their own feelings and "rules" over their mission is just sign how everything degraded, the fact that people like that aren't immediately filtered and gatekept. It is literally up is down, Batman and Superman are some pussies while Wonder Woman is the one who is allowed to kill. Complete subversion of everything, man is woman, etc.
>>143526903Are you being a retard or something? The point is Luke was face to face with the strongest force users in centuries who would have killed him if they felt like it. And he didn't buckle or act out of fear. Ben was sleeping and Luke lost his shit.
>>143526903>Luke didn't go up to them with the intention of basically mind scanning/sensing themSo you're just going to ignore how in ROTJ he blatantly says to Vader he can sense the good in him, and how even non Force sensitives can sense evil and ill intent in force users and be set on edge by that and have their behavior act as such? No way in hell would he be right in front of the two biggest sith and not feel the sheer magnitude of their hair trigger malevolence.
>>143532400Random people shouldn't get to decide who lives and who dies.
>>143534043So you are against trial by jury then?
>>143530059I don't think anyone genuinely likes the Sequels. They just pretend they do to "own the chuds".
>>143510675Eat shit OP.
>>143503479why do people always reference this as some damning moment when this 100% would happen in the original trilogy
>>143503831Maybe on planet retard.
>>143504666>Mouseketeer tard rage copeKek
>>143505072… is what I would say if I was a seething mousecuck revisionist.
>>143534043Righteous should and absolutely must do so. Especially if choice is between good people and bad onesThis is essential of superhero genre.
>>143530059I am a man (male) though.
>>143503448Why are you like this OP. Can you just stay Twitter where you belong?
>>143503464They are, fuck you.
I do not care about Star Wars.
>>143537265it's like pottery...it breaks if you make it wrong
>>143534441Nostalgia blindness. By that point sw fans brains have already rotten.
>>143538649You're probably correct in that way. Much of its appeal is rooted in its time and place, which is not wholly irreplicable but is uncomfortable to reach back towards and interact with sincerely.
>>143534441y tho
>>143534241I meant people as in any one person. Citizens shouldn't self-appoint themselves as Judge Dread street judges. Justice being done through the proper channels is fine.>>143535113Every man is righteous in his own eyes.
>>143534441Star wars fans don't like to actually acknowledge how the actual day-to-day parts of living work in that world. They'll pretend they do when it's time for a youtube video about the daily lives of stormtroopers, but the way that scene filters people to this day is proof that none of them had ever thought about those things, not the way Lucas did.
>>143503448Bmtas is an adaptation. If you don't like one DC universe, move on to another.Tlj on the other hand is canon.
>>143538763George has a juvenile sense of humour and likes appealing to what 5 year olds think is funny. He absolutely would have had a cow milking scene if he could find a way to put in a movie.
>>143539367Then why didn't Luke live on a alien cow dairy farm instead of a makes-sense-when-you-think-about-it sci-fi water-collecting "farm"?
>>143515790When we’re talking about a superhuman space monk who’s entire character arc was about seeing past darkness and drawing out the light in a monster then…yeah I don’t think it makes much sense to regress.
>>143504132Isn’t this right after Vader (Who already did plenty of fucked up things to Luke or his friends beforehand) threatened his sister, who is also one of his closest friends? How the fuck is that equivalent to nearly murdering your underage nephew because of ‘bad vibes’? Especially when one is him as a young adult and the other is him as a grown experienced man?
>>143515790When those people are beyond human and so connected to a mythical godly phenomena equivalent to walking by God's own side then yes, they would not make a mistake that they previously, because of their wisdom and inherent ability, overcame. Why are you trying to make fucking Luke Skywalker, son of the Chosen One who was himself an embodiment of the Force, equivalent to a standard human in OUR world?Luke already had his own faults, which he already overcame. It is not only senseless and redundant and creatively bankrupt to do that AGAIN, but it is also pointless to say that he would succumb to a mistake which he easily avoided when he was younger, less powerful, less knowledgeable, less wise, AND in a far worse state mentally and physically.
>>143504172I'm agreeing with you here. Just before, before Vader antagonized him, despite the overwhelming bad vibes from Vader, Luke stood before him and said that he believed there was good in Vader, that he didn't want to fight, and they could work together to defeat the Emperor. He did not attack Vader out of hand or get spooked and pop his lightsaber.But idiots like >>143504235 neglect the fact that Ben in no way had vibes that would have come anywhere NEAR Vader or Palpatine, both of whom Luke stood before as cool as a cucumber and didn't react out of fear. Only anger, once Vader threatened Leia. Who did Ben threaten? No one. Do you mean to tell me a vision of Luke's as he looked at his sleeping nephew, who he knew all the boy's life, was more powerful and unsettling than standing before his own dark side father and the strongest Dark Side user in the history of the Sith? Do you mean to tell me that he could refrain from attacking until he was blatantly antagonized before them, before the father who he did not know and tried to kill him multiple times before, but before the NEPHEW HE WATCHED GROW UP, all his sense, wisdom, and composure just goes out the window?
>>143503448i didn't see those crappy star wars extensionsbut if bruce retires in the dcu there's thousands of other heroes to pick up the slackif luke cuts out doesn't that effectively leave no one to combat the dark side of the force cause he's the last jedi?
>>143503448It's all about the execution.
>>143539212eww a persona fan
>>143504247Yeah because his dad threatened his sister.
>it's a "/tv/ finds yet another excuse to bitch about Star Wars on /co/" episode
>>143534441It wouldn't, the closest we got to that was Yoda making dinner in Empire Strikes Back.Why would you make it happen that way? Why does he have to milk an obese Drowzee for its green ocean milk? Why can't he just fish for food?There's a fucking scene later in TLJ where Chewie is roasting a Porg over an open flame, why can't we have Luke do that?Why must we humiliate Luke Skywalker at every opportunity?
>>143539454Lucas had people to reign in his autism back then. Plus budget.
>>143539454>>143542087Only barely though. Seriously have people forgotten all of Jarjar? Or Jarjar getting literally farted at by some creature?
>>143503448Never understood why so many people act like Luke is this godly messianic archetype paragon hero. I never got that at any point in the original trilogy at all, nor did he ever grow into that role. I have to assume this idea of Luke comes entirely from the legends novels.
>a 40+ year old child slaughtering, planet killing monster who took my arm, killed my adoptive parents, stomped on the corpse of my mentor and personally brought about the darkest period of time in the galaxy, everI can fix him.>a troubled teen who just needs some guidance in an era of peaceI HAVE TO MURDER MY NEPHEW!!!
>>143503448>Same thing happens with Luke Skywalker . . . AND EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!Based OP callout chuds duality
>>143543450That's the fandoms reaction to Ben in a nutshell too
>>143542119Yeah, like I said, Lucas' sense of humour was very childish without guys like Spielberg, Kershing, and even Kasdan to rein him in. Just look at the increase in slapstick between the OT and PT.
>>143503448>bruce>aging body shows he can't do the job anymore >luke>is still fully able to helpSeems to be a difference here.
>>143543645They didn't have to, Kylo Ren could've been cool.
>>143503448There's literally an entire league of heroes that easily can replace an old human like Bruce who is passed his prime. Luke was literally the only Jedi in the universe tasked with restoring his order, he abandoned the only one job he had to do and look where that lead? The Empire returned, started a another war, and destroyed multiple worlds along the way and killed Luke's friends as a result. Luke is honestly surprised it went this south? He's a moron in Disney's interpretation. I'm sorry, but Luke is the biggest fuck up in the new trilogy and him abandoning his mentor role causes everything to wrong for the new set of heroes. Beyond Bruce just realized he's way passed his prime and can't continue crime fighting. Gotham is still a shithole, but that's nothing new. But at least the world isn't ending.
