WE COULD HAVE HAD KINO.
And now we only got this.
>>144247900what the fuck
>>144248125what the fuck
>>144248125storytime when
>>144247900>>144248125I wish I had Penders confidence
https://youtube.com/watch?v=o3kTI4N9Vmc
>>144247900>>144248125Penders didn't cause Archie to lose the licenseAll he did was cause was Archie to resort to a rebootWhat caused the move to IDW was Archie bleeding money because of excessive licensing and wanting to focus on revitalizing their own IPs
>>144248411>Blows all of Archie's budget on Sega and Capcom cameos, then quits for DC and leaves them holding the bill
Reminder that Archie Sonic is the Prime Sonic that all other versions of Sonic from across the multiverse are derived from. He is the axis around which all Sonic media revolves, the true point of origin for all things Sonic.
>>144248434Zonic is just fluffing him/coping with the fact that he's not allowed to interact with Sega Sonic
>>144247687>Amy latinaOk, I understand the "Knuckles is black-coded" bullshit, it's inevitable at this point... but how is Amy, in any way, latina?
>>144248125>>144247900This is going to be one hell of a storytime when it gets scanned.
>>144248125>>144247900Man imagine going to court to fight for your life's creation and it's all just THIS. Like think of all the writers and artists who got fucked out of something with more.... dignity. But the guy who wants to draw and write OC Sonic characters somehow is the one to win.
>>144248960>but how is Amy, in any way, latina?They share the same qualities in both being loud and annoying bitches
>>144247687WHERE IS THE STORYTIME
>>144249100I mean, isn't it like... only 3 pages of new stuff?Sure, we will have all the editorial notes and commentary.>>144249121Honestly... many say that the only reason he didn't go for the 100% original setting once he gained the stories back is because he is well aware he can't sell anything without the Sonic name attached to it.But I also think the man is so emotionally dependant of Sonic, or rather... Knuckles, he just can't.Kind of sad after thinking it through.
>>144249130kek, my sides.
>>144248411You can't say Penders' case didn't shake the partnership between Sega and Archie somewhat.
>>144248434Archie was so arrogant to do this. Ironic that it ended up wiped from the franchise, making all those claims legally irrelevant.
>>144249185I have the impression that the Archie writers, or just specifically Penders (though, I'm not sure if he is the one who wrote this number >>144248434), were under the big delusion that one day Sega of Japan was going to come and bow to them begging to let them use the Archie setting as the base for all future Sonic games.Therefore, why he was so butthurted when he was mandated by Sega to be more faithful to the games.
>>144248434Maybe I'm being generous but this simply reads to me like "You're not COWBOY SONIC, or WACKY ARM WAVING SONIC you're THE SONIC"
>>144248125This picture summarizes the entirety of pre-Ian Flynn Archie, holy fuck.
>>144249185What? It looks more like it's just about that Sonic for Archie specifically, is there some context missing that he's supposed to be more canon than games Sonic? Because I'm pretty sure the comics at the time considered Archie Sonic and games Sonic one and the same. It's not unusual for a main character of a multiverse story to be the most main version of that character within the story.
>>144249264Nah, it basically means "You, Sonic from the ARCHIE comics, are the real Sonic, while all the others in existence are phonies based off of you."
>>144248125>It's called a spanking. So who got his ass beat here? Not-Knuckles, or his daughter?
>>144248125I'm starting to think Lara-Su's father might be someone else...
>>144249345Schizo moment
It's funny, we have the whole IDW's Spring Broken comic turning out so bad even Twitter doesn't support it, but instead people are more interested in this train wreck.
>>144250028Well yeah, because Sonic comics are dog shit, but not fun dog shit. This is going to be be fun dog shit, like a so bad it's good movie.
>>144249346Do you not get how flashbacks work?
...than THIS!?
>>144249137Grabber zone still doesnt have it.
>>144250217>Archie Sonic died for this and it's still holding the franchise hostage because Sega still won't get over its Pendersphobia and is sticking with certain dumb directions.Huh?
>>144247900>>144248125NO NO NO NO NONO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NOIT'S FUCKING HAPPENING?! AFTER ALL THIS TIME?!
I like listening to people talk about Archie Sonic while going on long walks but I've run out of youtube essays. And recommendations? Podcasts, live readings, I'm up for anything.
>>144250928After Archie (but more like it started in the last third of archie) sega started being more strict with rules about the writing and forbidding new things and all-in-all making the creative process a lot more difficult. Things like a long list of dos and dont’s for even minor characters like Big or important ones like Shadow, coming up with bizarre rules that are always in litigation like “no naming the planet” or “no making new lore” or “no making countries, no naming characters, letting a character look cooler than sonic”, not letting them write things in certain settings or writing romance or fleshing out the characters etcSome fans argue these are the reason all the new games since Colors have sucked, and they blame Penders for making Sega take this overly cautious stance on their series with his lawsuit against Bioware over their game Sonic Chronicles. And also that this soured them on his Archie lawsuit which inspired some of their rules (no romance or lore for example, which archie had in cringeworthy amounts).I’d say it’s unfair to blame that on penders since Ian did just as much cringy shit in his archie run, but im not a sega exec so i dunno if that’s actually the reason they have a leash on everyone’s neck nowadays
>>144251027Yes... but also no.You see, the whole book is just a compilation of his M25YL issues, except the last 3 pages are new material (what have been surfacing in the last few hours).The book is basically his last big gamble; if Sega action and forces him to desist, he will probably comply. However, if Sega doesn't do anything, he will read it as having free rein to print and sell whatever he wants (and he will also gloat about it on Social Media, which is, technically, the worst part, because we all know the reality behind the shitfest that was the Pendering and his legal stuff).
>>144251154>I’d say it’s unfair to blame that on penders since Ian did just as much cringy shit in his archie runI fully agree. Many people want to have someone to point the finger to and pin the blame.Penders' actions being the direct reason for the reboot (yet not cancellation) made him the perfect "fall guy" (being insufferable in social media didn't help either, if we are honest)Having said that, I do think Penders' actions did have an impact and were the catalyst of the new way Sega, or rather SoJ, monitored the spin-off works.
>>144251182How can it be this fucking bad? After decades of insults, hate and being forced to defend his own competence, he is NOT IRONICALLY releasing something this awful? Take art lessons. Pay some guy 5$ for a page. Make the nay-sayers shut up. Don't prove them right, Penders! Noooooooooo!
>>144247687It's post reboot Archie, so it would have been shit regardless.If any Sonic comic that should have continued, it's Fleetway.
>>144251238As many have said throughout the years, Penders could be literally mental, like seriously living in a delusion that the people close to him and those that admire him keep feeding to him.
>>144251265If they ever go to court again, just show the judge the breast feeding echidna.
>>144251265I think he could be undiagnosed autistic.>Obsession with Sonic>Overly convoluted OCs with his own deep lore>Poor social skills and lack of self awareness>Inserts weird fetishes and overly sexualised scenes
>>144248125ngl, I've seen worse boobs. I wonder where he traced them from? Who's the lucky gal whose beautiful body has been immortalized as an echidna freak?
>>144251322Pretty boobs, or ugly boobs, don't really matter. What makes it uncomfortable is this kid-level notion he has of:>"Look! The boobies are visible, this is an adult work!"
>>144251343And drugs. And nazis. He's the Frank Miller of Sonic.
>>144248434>Posting this>Not posting the bit from Sonic Live where "Sonic's creators" (i.e. just two random dudes) reveal that the Sonic games are based on transmissions from other dimensions picked up by their machine.
>>144249130>They share the same qualities in both being loud and annoying bitchesWho love you to death.
>>144248960Knuckles is the actual Mexican. He's Ancient Mexican since his people were based on the Aztecs.
penders reigns supreme
>>144251695>he doesn't know naka died his hair blonde
>>144250217Can your censor the C while your are at it?
>>144250217He knows his audience, Sonic fans are giga cumbrains who exclusively love porn with bad art.
>>144251154>bizarre rules that are always in litigation like “no naming the planet” or “no making new lore” or “no making countries, no naming characters, letting a character look cooler than sonic”, not letting them write things in certain settings or writing romance or fleshing out the characters etcThat was always a thing. >Some fans argue these are the reason all the new games since Colors have suckedNever seen this happen, everyone understands Colors is the way it is because of the "Sonic's shitty friends" stuff and letting mutts write because japshit was constantly getting laughed at. >and they blame Penders for making Sega take this overly cautious stance on their series with his lawsuit against Bioware over their game Sonic Chronicles.Literally has only effected Knuckles lore. It sounds like you saw one or two retards pin everything bad about the franchise on Penders and decided that was everyone's opinion while ignoring what everyone was actually saying. In other words, you're retarded.
>>144248281Just go snort some crack with a cup of bleach and you'll be there.
>>144249176It was a small peice. Quick summary from that time:>CW Archie knocking it out of the park in viewers>Editor insisting on TPB formats for Mega Man and Sonic>Sloppy book keeping that even a 12 year old can tell you is wrong>Desire by the company to dump licensed books>Crazy company CEO whose idea of productive meeting was walking in and screaming PENIS PENIS PENIS to all attendees. Its almost karma for how shady Golden/Silver age archie was.
>>144251719>>144252063his people were based on incans, and mexicans aren't aztecs. The whole reason we call that region "Spanish" is because they are descended from the European Spanish Conquistadors who slaughtered the Aztecs then colonised Mesoamerica (with help from every other local population who all despised the Aztecs)
>>144249343It's just some salty anon desperate to seethe over something
>>144252235Didn't the Conquistadors raped some of the Aztecans and some of the Mexicans were descendants from those?
>>144252063To be fair rap music follows black people everywhere they go just like Knuckles. I bet Knuckles plays Unknown From M.E real loud on his phone speakers on crowded public transportation.
>>144252235Incans did not build pyramids. I'd say they're clearly Mayan.
>>144250028Nobody cares about crying lesbian OCs the Comic.
>>144252811You care enough to cry about it in every single Sonic thread. The crying lesbians crybaby.
>>144251719>>144252063>>144252235>>144252778And yet Knuckles has pretty much only ever acted like a bland boring white guy.
>>144252780It's actually a mix of the 3, I think.Pachacamac is an Incan god, while Tikal is a Mayan city. Meanwhile, warmongering culture fits better with Aztecs.
>>144253398B-but the rap!!Now, seriously, you are absolutely right. Pretty much what happens when:>a) Japanese people are in charge of writing non-Japanese characters>b) American people are in charge of writing any characters
IDW is officially worse than Archie now that best boy Starline is dead, rest in rubble you gay platypus
>>144253455As much as I like all the culture mixed into Knux's background, I think it just comes down to making a generic shonen tough guy loner and only giving him that lore pretty much by incident just to have something going on at the time. There's a little bit of it in 3K, there's more added just by his association to the lore added in SA1, and that stuff in both games technically gets a bit of payoff in SA2 where its referenced again. There's nothing wrong with that since Sonic stories are always played fast and loose but the people who take it too seriously or take random cultural references too seriously without acknowledging shonen storytelling's rule-of-cool will look at it through a lens that sees it for more than it really is, in a direction it was never purposefully aiming for. So it's funny seeing them argue which ethnic background he's supposed to be and then you see him in TSR where he sounds and acts like a generic white idiot dudebro.
>>144253412Warmongering culture is human culture.
>>144253528i don't like starline at all and yes it's just because i don't care for duck bill characters. i'm genuinely sick of them.
>>144253600Yes, but of the three "main" Mesoamerican civilizations, the biggest warmongers were the Aztecs.
>>144248125I FUCKING KNEELI KNEEL IN SHAME
>>144251719Sweetie? The Aztecs/Jamaicans were all jews.
>>144251815C board bro
>>144253376Okay Ian
>>144251719>>144253683>>144253455>>144253398>>144253412>>144253631>>144253600>>144248960Knuckles is a Jamaican and mesoamerican inspired character in design and lore
>>144253714Where's Sally?
>>144248125What did I just see?
>>144253714I want to correct the shit out of Bell and the Sheep
>>144253777I agree, needs Sally in there
>>144253763>Knuckles is a JamaicanProof?
>>144253631>the biggest warmongers were the AztecsAnd they all died too.
>>144253814badly drawn echidna titty
>>144253903And Nicole.
>>144253913Dreadlocks and le Jamaican flag color palette.The designer did comment on that, but then again he never said that made him black.
>>144253576Just write him like a noble savage. He'll be more interesting that way.
>>144248125Is that a ghostly Rouge in the bottom panel?
>>144248960Rouge is Latina.
>>144253952If anything, she's French.
>>144253938>Dreadlocks and le Jamaican flag color palette.Why you being racist?
>>144253913He was originally called Rastafari during his creation.
>>144253952*Wave
>>144253963I wish I was being, that's literally the evidence these people present as concrete proof when the voice actor and rap fall apart.
>>144248960She is smol, pink and loud.
>>144254009Source?
>>144254013Explain.
>>144254107Never played Riders?
>>144254062Ah, the 5ft Latinas.
>>144254468No. Is it good?
>>144253615Low test
>>144254506Literally one of the best racing games to play in the 2000s, also cool modding scene.Give it a shot.
>>144254812>Give it a shot.Will do, thanks.
>>144251209>Having said that, I do think Penders' actions did have an impact and were the catalyst of the new way Sega, or rather SoJ, monitored the spin-off works.Yep.>went from Sega telling the Archie crew to adapt Adventure in anyway they can, forcing themselves to weld the world they created already to adapt itto>IDW not being allowed to adapt Frontiers or any of its elements (Ancients, Sage, The End) at ALL, possible the same restrictions for Dream Team and any future game.That's just sad.
Anyone else hoping that there is NOT any sex scenes in this? I do not need to see intimate porn from Ken Penders…
>>144255124Me neither, the fuck this retard was thinking?
>>144253714Ok crybaby
>>144253763>design and loreNot in personality thoughbeit >>144253942Based WADE appreciator
>>144254013Sheeit, I headcanon this now. It's too fitting. >>144255124I hope that there are because I want to see the reactions to it and then Penders' reactions to those reactions
>>144254815Nta but play the DX fan mod. More characters, game fixes, and what-not.
>>144254877>went from Sega telling the Archie crew to make good stories based on canon stuffto>IDW not being allowed to make any good or fun stories or charactersBased Sega
>>144255639Anon please no this man has done enough damage to the world we DO NOT NEED TO MANIFEST THIS
>>144251695>>144251810I’m convinced that very few have even read Sonic Live, most just look at the cover and have a chuckle over the first few pages with shopped images of Penders’ kids holding tv remotes and that’s it. They ignore the other insane shit that happens in it
>>144255746I need Pendejo ludokino with Julie-Su's C-section operation in full view with an opaque lore image overlay covering the scene as the characters speak in Star Trek ripoffs.
>>144254877>introduce deep lore game>forbid the comic team led by diehard fans of/original writers and artists for the previous book (that sega hired to begin with) that was nothing but deep lore from adapting itIs this because the games and comics are supposed to be one synchronized world, so if the OCs never appeared in the games they aren't allowed to adapt the games in the comics?
>>144256263>forbid the comic teamGood. The lore in Frontiers was so bad that it retroactively ruined everything it tried to add to.
>>144254877The real adaptation of Frontiers is happening off-screen in Rediscovered Frontiers, the most autistically dedicated piece of sonic fanfiction I've ever seen
>>144256263It's because the comics are supposed to be "canon" in the games and Sega doesn't want the comic to contradict anything.Honestly, they should let the comic be it's own thing and if there are any contradictions just let the writers write around it, be creative to make it fit. Good God. Why doesn't Sega just publish their own comic written by their team if they're so worried about this shit.
>>144256332It's just an Archie Mourning fic. Also, I don't like how it's making the IDW universe (which is sold as the game universe) just an altered version of the Archie universe because of the Genesis Wave and shit.
>>144250221>>144249137What's grabber zone, also are you telling me there's a finished comic of #293 to storytime? or do you mean the Penders horror?
>>144256428Penders. 293 was never finished.
>>144256376Or, just let the comic be it's own OWN thing. No kid is gonna confuse the Sonic Movie universe with the games, let the comics do their own thing too. Will we get stupid stuff? Oh for sure, but it will be better than everything being stagnant, especially now since we're just DYING to see Clutch's plan go off.
>>144256448>Or, just let the comic be it's own OWN thing. I just said that in the post.
>>144256477
>>144256428Its a website that has every sonic comic, including fan made ones.
>>144256376A Sonic manga would be too kino and make the brand look too good.
>>144248434This is like if Russia claimed they invented space travel while their cult fanbase denounces every other nation's trip to space was of their own doing and was entirely thanks to Russia.How are you going to expect me to respect this dogshit westerner trash doing this shit? I hope one day SEGA outright sues everyone involved with this stain on Sonic's history and trash all media associated to it like Atari did with those E.T cartridges many years ago.
Every piece of Sonic media should be restrained by the japanese game canon.
>>144256597You know it would just end being some 4 koma comedy strip with Classic Sonic.
>>144256625Fuck no.
>>144256404>300,000+ words of archie mourning What am in for if I start this shit
Is IDW sonic an adventure-focus comic yet? I didn't like how restricted the older issues were
>>144256823>Is IDW sonic an adventure-focus comic yet?No. Just slice of life shit still.
>>144256823Because of stuff mentioned above Sonic is stuck in pretty bland no-name environments with every game sans Frontiers having already happened.
>>144256439brb crying>>144256515thank you.
I will stan archie sonic until the day I die, the mythos is too powerful. Name another comic with as much tonal whiplash, legal drama, genuine talent, useless hackery, and weaponized autism as archie sonic
>>144256823the last comic was literally just a "mystery" issue where the established petty criminal was, in fact, a petty criminal
>>144256645Sounds kino
>>144256823No and it never will be. They've invested too much into the post-Forces melodrama of The JUSToration League versus The Legion of Abandoned Eggman Bases.
>>144256645What a waste. They never attempted to use Sonic for a narrative manga and instead have it all be gag shit.
>>144257156Good, Sonic should be funny.
>>144256823Only Ian attempts to write an adventure in this comic.
>>144256892Probably Spider-Man.
>>144257156No one is going to take stories seriously with designs like these lmao
>>144251154Anon you're just describing licensing. This is just licensing.
>>144257173I wish he would have attempted it more often and with less terminal burnout.
>>144253576Considering they are not human beings racism should even exist in this series at all. A world where humans and evolved animals don't kill themselves for supremist and the only human on Earth that does want that both sides actively team up against him most of the time, proves racism just isn't a think in Sonic's universe to care about what race they "represent".The single only thing Americans should add to Sonic is their knowledge of the classic gameplay formula. Absolutely NOTHING else should be allowed to be touched by them, maybe except the art direction of the environments and music.
When even Boco can’t find anything positive about Ken’s work, both ironically and for reals, you know that this is BAD
Reminder of the one true lore of Sonic the Kamikaze.
>>144257570
>>144256376More like "canon adjacent".
>>144256892Dragon Ball, except 99% of it is actually good.
>>144257570Nah this is Sonic true origin
>>144257682
>>144257682It's funny how only Fleetway Sonic, the BRITISH Sonic comic, was the only one that used this origin.
>>144257199I really really fucking wish we stop trying to gaslight the idea goofy ass shit can work with gritty edgy realism like real life is a fucking toon world. Toons are DESIGNED for comedy, that's their entire point of existence. Even when it got gory, sexual, political, etc, it was ALWAYS for the laugh of it. If you want maturity, you seeked human media with humans as the focus.Every single time you go against this they eventually DIE and never come back any more successful than the last attempt, compared to the media with serious humans with relatable human stories. If you redesigned Sonic into something like Star Fox that would be a start to making it a bit more "turn off your brain and accept it" but doing so any further and you're just going right back to UglySonic/Penders.
>>144256376WHY though? literally everything else is its own thing, an fuck they seem to be very supportive overall of their fan community compared to other IP holders which usually are very neutral.Why be so autistic to the fuckin comics?
>>144257199>>144257775Yet Sonic is still around and has done it. So it's really just you fags with the problem.
>>144257775fuck that live action media is boring. I want to experience drama and mature shit through animated medium.
>>144257867>Yet Sonic is still around and has done it.Key word, had. And dropped longger than when they tried. And most of the hate for this series is when they do try to keep doing it. and when they don't they do it poorly by getting bad writers to trick people into thinking the opposite is better when it doesn't.Toons are toons. They are designed to break away from realistic issues. Sonic going Super Sayian shouldn't be mixed with him bleeding out the ass after being raped by green Sonic as he knocks up his gf while Eggman is teaming up with Hitler.
>>144257877>I want to experience drama and mature shit through animated medium.You get that with human media like Batman or animes like Bleach.
>>144257877ya
>>144257775Explain how Archie Sonic is still a strong presence? What about Fleetway? Popular Sonic fan comics or content in general.The only time putting in a darker story in Sonic that I can really think of is when Sega and the Happy Tree Friends bros made Forces, when Penders was writing stuff, or autistic Sonic fans with piss poor fan content. Much of the fandom CRAVES more serious and darker stories, and a step away from the more goofier world where almost nothing now gets further explored and the characters keep getting reverted to an earlier state. But of course, this needs to be done with competent hands and not clueless autists and odd Sega meddling tactics.
>>144258099.....there's a line between teaching children valuable lessons through entertaining stories, and exposing them to the grim reality of their dying world through narratives that reflect it.
>>144258163The only time I can think of where darker stories have failed are when…*
>>144258099toons have been used to tell dramatic stories for longer than you've been alive, anon
>>144258163Oh! And let me not forget, SA2 is literally one of the most popular Sonic games of all time and it had much darker tones than the previous games. Shadow the Hedgehog is controversial but still beloved by a good number of fans. And… if people really wanted this franchise to be just goofy as fuck, Lost World would have been received much better, along with the Deadly Six
>>144251960>Crazy company CEO whose idea of productive meeting was walking in and screaming PENIS PENIS PENIS to all attendees.Excuse me, Mr. Anon I. Moose, but what in the actual fuck?
>>144258163>Explain how Archie Sonic is still a strong presence?EXTREME religionism, triblism, autism and nostalgia. Since no one but Archiefags knows anything abotu archie, whenever casual Sonic discussion is said, it's interesting how no one will go out of the their way to say "oh that thing in x game, kinda like how Archie did a thing like x thing did it". Because Archie never has done anything like x thing, it did a thing, said thing being shit no one would have ever thought would exist in a fucking Sonic medium until it gets mentioned by a Archiefag to have, indeed, happened. Which is usually responded with "what the fuck, that's retarded", because, to many normal people, it is. The kind of attract a media like Archie comics brings isn't even on the same level of "dedication" you'd get from other forms of media, and no, it's not because it's GOOD. It's a trainwreck that keeps getting worse, and the appeal is seeing just how fucking deep into the black hole of hell can it get into, hence why the second fucking post of this thread instantly goes from talking about a cover from Archie Sonic, to fucking penders instantaneously, as if nothing good about archie is worth talking about, but the shit the man that started it all has descended into. You're no bloody different to the lolcows that obsess over the atomic level crumb of information about what ever Chris fucking chan is up to. Not even news of Yuji Naka gets this level of obsession, and most actually moved on from his ass now for all he's down because the state of the games has marginally improved without his presence, at least I think so with games like Unleashed/Generates/Mania existing.The end of this discussion should be clear to anyone, but just because people like anime Sonic shit doesn't mean that's actually "mature and edgy", it's just stupid fun just like anime is known to be, and taking it seriously past what's expected is extreme mental illness>>144258225So where are they now? Read my post.
>>144258440AOSTH uprising NOW
>>144257535>Considering they are not human beingsI don't even use that as a reason, just the fact that it's cartoon animals for kids means there doesn't need to be any irl racism. Maybe some tailored version of it like the dingos and echidnas where their own personal history together ties into it and it isn't because of some blatant hamfisted irl allegory. Basically if there has to be racism, make it fit the setting rather than making the setting fit real world racial politics.
>>144258440In a sort of roundabout way, I agree with this anon. Shonenkino Sonic is the best Sonic because he's the right balance of dumb fun and cool factor, like the OVA, or the boss fights in Frontiers.
>>144258440>So where are they now?toons? still getting put in dramatic stories.
>>144258440Are you telling me there's something stupid about this buddy?
>>144257549Boco hates it? Alright, picked up.
>>144258440>doesn't mean that's actually "mature and edgy"so basically you think it's ok when Japan does it
>>144258574we got another one
>>144258440Aspects of Archie/ SATAM that made it into canon works/ the games:>Ray’s blue shoes>Fang working with Bean and Bark>Eggman taking over 99% of the world>Sonic working with a freedom fighting group>Eggman creating an artificial daughter>Sonic saying “Let’s do it to it” in Frontiers>New Yolk City being similar to Robotropolis>Freedom Fighters making it into Spinball bonus games>Surge being an expy of Scourge>Starline being a melding of Snively and Finitevus>Silver looking for a traitor in the freedom fighting group>every Archie comic cover (up to that date) making it into Mega CollectionIt’s easily the most influential piece of Sonic media.
>>144258632you forgot
>>144258632Fleetway cucks in SHAMBLES
>>144258700the british get what they deserve
All I wanted to see is how Neo got Scratch, Grounder, and Coconuts back with Breezie
>>144258524What about Sonic X and Shogaku Manga?
>>144255124i do, i hope it's as much of a trainwreck as humanly possible
>>144259017I never read the manga, so even with it's strange premise I have no opinion on it.Sonic X was enjoyable enough, I wasn't big into Chris (oh god), but the third season was good stuff.I watched Sonic X subbed back in the day, those old Wolfpack Productions subs man
>>144258632>>144258678Not to mention that it and SatAM are both still very popular within the fandom. Hell, even Japanese fans are picking it up and making more fan content and that’s saying a lot considering how Sonic in general isn’t even that popular there
>>144257775Same. Any time thes3 retards pipe up I show them what happens when you play edgy cartoon people straight like in 06 and Shadow and they immediately shut the fuck up because they just got owned.
>>144257877That's because you're a child-minded autist and need therapy, not more cartoons that feed your delusions.
>>144258163>Explain how Archie Sonic is still a strong presence? There are like 5 shitposters who feel the need to remind you it exists in every fucking Sonic thread. >What about Fleetway? No presence. >Popular Sonic fan comics or content in general.Edgy fan content is universally mocked. >Much of the fandom CRAVES more serious and darker storiesThat's a fucking lie because IDW did it and you all hated it.
>>144257664>99% of dragon ball is goodBarely half of all dragon ball media is watchable
>>144258248>it had much darker tones than the previous games.In like the last ten minutes of the game you disingenuous retard. Even then it was tonal whiplash next to the scene of Tikal getting stampeded in SA1 and the allusion to the fact that she's been dead the whole game because that plot was better executed.
>>144250200Every time I look at this comic there's a new character. Who the hell's the purple wolf?
>>144259334A lot of people actually liked Metal Virus.
>>144258632>>Fang working with Bean and BarkMan, do I hate this one...
>>144258632>>every Archie comic cover (up to that date) making it into Mega CollectionThis is a good point. Why would Sega, a Japanese company, acknowledge Archie Sonic in a game compilation were the only time said characters are seen in games are a bonus section of a spinoff? A lot of people will downplay it, but Archie Sonic was big for a reason, holding the title of longest running video adaptation to comic, something I think will never be broken in our life times.
>>144259386It's a "cat" actually Mimic the Octopus in disguise.
>>144259525Who the fuck is Mimic the Octopus
>>144258700Emerald Robotnik from the movie is very much like how Fleetway Robotnik got god powers and Knuckles also thought Sonic could lose control of his Super form like in Fleetway.
>>144258632>Fang working with Bean and BarkWas originally supposed to be a thing in Heroes.>Eggman taking over 99% of the worldEggman's entire character was about conquering the world. It's automatically an Archie and SatAM thing when he actually does it?>New Yolk City being similar to RobotropolisGrasping at straws.>Surge being an expy of ScourgeBoth are based off the Ashura glitch from Sonic 2.>Silver looking for a traitor in the freedom fighting groupMore reaching.
>>144259579He's been around for 5 years
>>144258632Sonic always took parts of its media.>Eggman having two goofy robot sidekicks first began in AoStH.>Shadow taking off the rings on his wrists as a power boost originated from Sonic X.>Characters like Amy Rose and Charmy Bee first debuted in a Sonic manga published by Shogakukan.>Sonic's energy boost in Sonic Frontiers is based off Sonic's powers in Paramount's Sonic the Hedgehog movies.>Sticks the Badger is a character who first appeared in Sonic Boom.>"Tangle", who Sonic was referring to in Frontiers, is a character from IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog comic series.
>>144258632>>144259517Both of these are why archie can never be truly forgotten. It lasted for so long and its sucessor comic copies it to the point of making you wonder why even kill archie off. Even if archie never comes back, I think sega should be more open to bring some of its non penders characters back since they already own them
>>144259652>"Tangle", who Sonic was referring to in FrontiersWasnt that patched out ?
>>144259704>Both of these are why archie can never be truly forgotten.Nothing in Sonic is "forgotten", retard.
>>144259726No.
>>144258632Now remove the stuff that happened because Ian
>>144259176The story's about Kid Sonic being temporarily replaced by his older self from the games to save the day and help guide him on the path to becoming him.
>>144259861Sonic even goes back in time to save his dad by helping him land the Tornado. Thing is, he landed right outside the home of his future wife. This is how Sonic's parents met. Had Sonic not gone back to save his dad, he and his sister would never be born. It's a time loop.
>>144258437https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/rachelzarrell/archie-comics-ceo-sued-for-calling-male-employees-penis-says>Archie Comics CEO Sued For Calling Employees "Penis," Says That's Fine Because White Men Aren't "Protected Class">“[T]he word ‘penis’ became somewhat of a campaign slogan and her preferred method of referring to employees in lieu of their names,” the filing said.Men weren't people.
>>144259934Hot
>>144259861Yeah, it's a strange premise but I also dig it.
>>144258563As kid collecting these at the time of them coming out. Honestly didn't think too hard and was just happy getting monthly dose of Sonic. Even LSD dogs flew over my head.Just two cents since 98% of the anons here are introduced by the rides. >>144259517Sonic just brings out the weridst autism divides in a fan base. People lose their shit for example when you bring up Ken wanted to off Sally in Sonic 50 and she was only saved because Sega thought they could market her in their theme parks.
>>144259934What in the actual fuck is going on in the US?Or anglo countries in general.
>>144259726That was Sticks
>>144260297They patched out referencing Sticks in Frontiers? Really?
>>144260402Kinda? She was never mentioned in the Japanese dialogue.
>>144260402Yep, for some reason she just can't be mentioned in anything that doesn't involve Boom.
>>144258525Yeah everyone loves HH/HB for its maturity because it's soooo mature, not because it's le wacky fun in hell. Fucking moron.
>>144260473Wasn't she in a Sonic Channel comic with the game cast?
>>144260573Anon, this is the same company that showed Sonic and humans living on the same world, changed to two different worlds for some dumb reason in the 10's, and only changed it back like last year. They can't seem to make up their minds, but I got a feeling she'll be used again.
>>144260573I have a feeling that Sticks inclusion in both the Rio Olympics and the Sonic Channel was the source of confusion for her availability as a character in modern games; same with the Freedom Fighters in Sonic Spinball. SEGA only allow for her inclusion due to them seeing her as a representative of the Boom series; and since the last ties to it got canceled, she was permanently vaulted. I got this hunch when it revealed to me that Tangle, Whisper, and Surge were included in Speed Battle solely to promote their comics.
>>144260573>>144260687Seriously how hard is this to understand? Main games = canon. The Babylon Rogues have never appeared in any mainline game for this exact reason, they are ADVERTISEMENT for the main Sonic Team media. If they don't have VAs, they are even more shovelware.Boom did massive damage to the IP just like 06, but unlike 06, Silver was salvaged with Rivals and the Mario Olympic games, otherwise he'd be killed off completely, and even then, the last or only time since 06 Silver showed up in a mainline title was Sonic Generations (anniversary game where 06 content had to be acknowledged) and Forces (because the director of said came directed Forces as well)Just like with Blaze, these two characters only really show up when their master creator develops the game itself, otherwise they get binned. So what makes you think they are going to do anything with Sticks after Boom happened, or IDW when they do nothing but advertise for the main series? Do you think we are ever going to see a modern Trip just because she's new? She's likely binned unless Oshima is working on a Sonic game, since the pattern is presented for other Sonic characters.It's honestly shocking Sonic fags act like this when SEGA isn't even the only IP owners to do this. Same happens to a LOT of Mario characters, as Daisy in over 30 fucking years has FINALLY entered a mainline Mario game (if you don't want to include Mario Run which still means 25 years since her inception). Wario, Wahluigi, any OC from the Paper series, has never showed up in the mainline games. Even characters like Toadsworth, a Paper Mario character originally, only showed up ONCE in Sunshine and never again since.
>>144260834correct
>>144260297
>>144260834Anon, Toadsworth first appearance WAS Sunshine. You might be thinking of the Minister.
>>144260402Cream too.
>>144260540keep grasping, my guy. i'm sure if you keep posting on the internet, eventually the toons will be free!! no one will ever look at them seriously again!!!
>>144260939No I just forget he didn't appear in the first Paper Mario and forget TYD came out in fucking 2004.
Archie is great because it dared to go where the games would not go. Because it was brave, and delved deeper into darker tones sometimes. Sometimes. I feel like I have to defend it because it pretty much represents something similar to I wish Sonic was. A more mature series that has proper worldbuilding and greater scope and scale. Where there is stakes, where the world changes from conflicts, where it is about war.About the original characterizations I am conflicted on that. They do deserve respect, but seeing Archie being criticized makes me get angry.
>>144259456Explain.
>>144260834>WarioPretty sure he migrated to mainline a long time ago.
>>144260834Are Dream Team a Main line game or a spinoff?
>IDW Sonic is 10 years oldFeel old yet?
>>144261075Was Mario Land not mainline?
>>144261076That's definitely a spinoff. Same team that made all the mobile spinoffs like Forces Speed Battle and Dash.
>>144261075Which game?>>144261101No. I mean it's more canon now that Daisy is in Wonder but it's still a spinoff title.
>>144261162Therefore mainline every 5 years then.
>>144261083>mfw the Sonic burger king line is 1 day old
>>144261182So, like Cream the Rabbit in Heroes then (even though she was made for said game, just debut in Sonic X pilot and SAdv2 first).
>>144259652Jap purist retards.....our response??
>>144259726Yes, from the japanese script.
>>144261182>Which game?I tried to think, but they all were just remakes where he was included as a playable character... so I guess you are right. I'm shocked... (at Wario never been in a mainline game)
>>144247687I swear to god they NEED to bring Honey back
>>144261249Cream was always canon, she appeared in SA1DX first and only had "issues" purely on timing in Sonic X but she's always made first party with Sonic Team. So it's not the same.Sticks was made by Big Red Button and only the design was finalized by Sonic Team after mandating for the artstyle to not look like... Ugly Sonic before ugly Sonic happened by Paramount.
>>144259727No one remembers Heavy & Bomb, S3DB's special stages, the Sonic X pilot, Furry Bomb, anything from Fleetway that isn't evil Super or the space lesbians or the few shock value panels from the comic that people post every time it's brought up, the Archie issue that came right before Ian's run, Sonic Blast, or that SA1 had shill ads before SA2, not even I remember those things.
>>144261045>Archie is great because it's nothing like what Sonic is supposed to beAnd you have the gall to ask why people find shartchiefags insufferable
>>144261359Honey has basically no character. Even Big is deeper and more fleshed out.
>>144259905Chad move right there, Archie BITCHnic could never pull that off.
>>144261406>Honey has basically no character. Make her like Fighting Vipers Honey.
>>144261406Honey's more of a guest character from Fighting Vipers (she was dubbed Candy in the international release).
>>144261406they could likeexpand on what was shown in the other issues she was inshe's sassy
>>144259934>men aren't people>white men don't deserve basic decencyWhite woman moment.>>144260648>changed to two different worlds for some dumb reasonThat literally never happened, retarded lorefags misquoted Iizuka and psyopped themselves into feeling like victims.
>>144260984>n-no people love Fuckshitfuckcocksfuckshit Hotel and Cocksshitcocainefuckcockscocaineshitfuck Boss because it's mature and nuanced for adults like myself!God level copium
>>144260834Sonicfags don't realize Sticks being mentioned is the same as that line in Forces about Sonic and Eggman going at each other for decades, it's just a fanservice line with no real meaning.
>>144261499More of Ian Flynn going rogue.
>>144261203>Sonic franchise is about to have its 50th anniversary this year
>>144261362Cream was shilled too much in the beginning of Sonic X, it was like Corrin in Smash all over again.
>>144261448The comics aren't allowed to develop characters, even their own.
>>144261438They should but you know they won't.
>>144261362I was more or less talking about Sonic Advance 2. But yeah, only characters made by Sonic Team can be canon, just like with Amy Rose and Charmy Bee.
This is the best character to appear in Sonic media and he's not even a Sonic character.
>>144253952Honduran White Bat. But to the natives... SHIKAKA!
>>144260834Is that what Kishi meant when he said he hopes that Infinite might appear in a future titles, despite other publications stated that he got absorbed by the original Phantom Ruby?
>>144261456>That literally never happenedHuh? I don't know about Izuka talking about it, but Ian did.https://sonicsourceblog.wordpress.com/2018/03/06/two-worlds-system-bumblekast-64/https://sonicsourceblog.wordpress.com/2018/03/19/flynn-clarifies-the-two-world-issue-in-bumblekast-65/And then the Tails Tube came and said "Nah, Mobians live on Islands, Humans live on he mainland".https://youtu.be/Nmzc8L8zTBk?si=Txe9Qr0dOUwBwGlc&t=111
>>144262114Like what Ian said, it was "always there" so I'm wrong on saying they changed it to that.
>>144262114>>144262127Two worlds was only in Sonic X and there's nothing in the games to suggest otherwise. You never see characters travel between both Earths and it's never referenced in dialogue. You psyopped yourself.
>>144260834Blaze I kind of give more hope of not being binned if only because the Sonic property has a low amount of non damsel in distress girls. Outside Rouge, you're just left with Amy and Cream who depending on the media are ok fighters or getting in the way. That said, her world is pretty much dead since Sega has low interest in doing anything with lore.
What Sonic characters do you hate and why?
>>144262916Silver. He just refuses to leave.
>>144262916Amy. Bugs the crap outta me.
>>144262916amy owes me sex
I hate Sally too, but at least she’s gone for good.
>>144263114Too bad her fans aren't
>>144258632>>Fang working with Bean and BarkI mean, he doesn't really. I mean, he's associated with the group but that was only really in mania as a heavy magician disguise.
>>144262916I hate the SatAM OCs because they never fit the artstyle of the old games, and I never cared for the american cartoons, just the games.
>>144263114Fuck You, Boco. You blasphemous dope fiend bitch.
>>144261629
>>144263353>they never fit the artstyle of the old gamesI assume you hate the SA2 humans, black arms, iblis, and dark gaia since they look just as out of place.
>>144262916Tails, because /co/ made me hate him
>Ok crybaby
>>144263178And they were only teamed up because they were all in Sonic the Fighters and where the only "antagonist" animals.
>>144261075Wario is a migrant???
>>144263407>"That's for misgendering Aeon!"The last FFSX episode was really woke.
>>144264023Correction, Fang stole the 8th emerald (presumably from Honey); all the remaining 7 were guarded by Sonic and his Friends.Iizuka and Ian both thought they work well together (the later realized it while the former only plot it on paper).
>>144262916Whisper. Hate how they sacrificed Silver’s credibility for her. Hate how much time is spent on her crying. Hate how she turned Tangle from a carefree tomboy into her girlfriend that cries with her.
>>144261075.....Super Mario 64 DS doesn't count.
>>144263543>whataboutismBesides the fact they are actually concepts and characters from the gamea themselves...I think Dark Doom looks cool of out of place. Antoine and the fat walrus guy just look dopey.
>>144264539There it is, "it's ok when the games do it!"
>>144264633because Sonic Team made them and they fit. Archie characters are square pegs in sonic-shaped hold because they don't fit the aesthetic
>>144264706Sonic Team also made these. Go ahead and explain how they fit into the Sonic aesthetic
>>144264106>presumably from HoneyYou made that up?
>>144264744He stole it from someone.
>>144264737Japan-made and wanted a Youkai theme (specifically Oni). The House always wins
>>144264706>and they fitAnd they don't, that was the point. But it's ok that they don't fit because Sonic Team did it!
>>144263353neither does tails, and he looks weebabo as fuck.
>>144264750So yeah you literally did make that up. Gotta love how half the statements made in any Sonic thread are headcanons presented as fact and seethingly defended for several posts when called out.
This was the peak of Archie
>>144261475any day now, anon, they'll all see. you just gotta keep posting!
>>144264539how do you feel about these guys? >>144264737
>>144264706>because Sonic Team made them and they fit
>>144265019>sonic fan thinks HH/HB is matureI should have connected the dots earlier
>>144262916Shadow. He had a through-line in 2 games, then was flanderized into an edgelord. Silver's a dope too.
>>144264633Sonic is a game series, so it is the only thing that matters, anything else is just extra sprinkles or extra shit depending on the quality. >>144264768What are you talking about? He fits perfectly with Sonic himself, it is the same artistic sensibility Naoto Oshima was going for, just with less spunk since Tails himself isn't as spunky as Sonic.>weeaboo as shitJapanese artist draws japanese design, in other news bears shit in the woods.>>144265036They're absolutely disgusting and do not have anywhere the cool factor Black doom had, I hope we can leave them behind. I genuinely don't know what was going on their minds, they look out of place. While external Sonic media can be shit and easily ignored like Underground or SatAM, this is harder to ignore.
>>144265186>can be shit and easily ignored like SatAM
>>144265186>Sonic is a game series, so it is the only thing that matters, anything else is just extra sprinkles or extra shit depending on the quality.You're right, which is why you must be a huge Sally fan after Spinball.
>>144265169you're getting closer, I can feel it! soon everyone will agree! toons are for funny only, nothing else allowed!!!
Maybe Sonic media outside of the games was just never really all that good in general.
>>144265412>toons are for funny onlyHH/HB is literally one of the best examples of that unironically, just admit you started out with a completely retarded example if your point was that drawings need to be taken seriously
>>144265558>Maybe Sonic media ... was just never really all that good in general.This
>>144265231Explain why you think noncanon sonic media deserves any attention beyond laughing at how bad it is
>>144261499Make Sonic and the cast canonically be in their 30s so spergs on Twitter will stop bitching about people fapping to Amy.
>>144266191No, in fact make them younger so it gatekeeps them harder. Twittards bitching is not my problem.
>>144265231I gave it a fair chance, I really did, especially since I liked Adventures and X and I had heard great things about it. It was just boring and I fucking despise the dragon.
>>144266118explain why you think most canon mainline Sonic games aren't garbage
>>144266267so you despise the clumsy dragon?
>>144265561i can feel the world coming around! they're starting to believe! anon, just a few more posts and you will save toons!!!!
>>144265186>Japanese artist draws japanese design, in other news bears shit in the woods.He looks out of place in comparison to this cast, that's for sure.
>>144268041Look at Ray. Fat fuck.
>>144268111He’s not fat Boco, he’s a flying squirrel. That extra “fat” is his wings.
>>144268249That drawing doesn't do a very good job of showing it then.
>>144248434Lmao archie fans and writers deserved their downfall
>>144268287to be fair, they can get practically spherical
>>144268476And neon, apparently.
>>144248434>>144249185double arrogant since everything they had--the characters, the setting, the tone--was all taken from SatAM.
>>144268491I guess they decided to use a filter. hold on, I'll go take a picture of the one in my living room.
>>144268494People don’t want to accept that Sonic would be very different today and less appealing to Americans than it is now if it weren’t for SatAM and later developments.
>>144268631Omg :DHE SO CUUUUTESee Boco, they are not fat, their wings make them round.
>>144268631>>144268706Awww, lil' cottonball.>>144268699Yeah, if there was no SatAM things would be way better.
>>144268723>Sonic being just an exact clone of Goku but less entertaining have been better No
>>144266267>likes XYikes
>>144268723>Yeah, if there was no SatAMthen i wouldn't have even bought a Genesis.
>>144268750>clone of GokuThats an insult to Sonic.
>>144264216I don't hate her, but I honestly don't like what they've done with her either. Angel of the Battlefield? More like Weeping Angel.
>>144268802Hey you’re the one wishing for that reality, not me
>>144269086Sonic will never be as bad as Goku, though. Sonic gives a shit about others.
Who is better writer Dan Slott Spider-man or Ian Flynn Sonic
>>144269100Except if Sonic didn’t have his Americanization, Sega would have further driven the character into THAT sort of state.
>>144269114Slott.Funny thing about Slott, if it weren’t for him working on Archie Sonic, we wouldn’t have Spiderverse stuff today as we know it. Butterfly effect
>>144269133Are you saying game Sonic and toon Sonic are different? Because thats one of the few things the DiC cartoons got right.
>>144268723>No SatAMSonic is effectively "dead" in the US until DC as game gear flops and Sega's saturn antics do little to get a proper game out.Archie gets the license and just invents OCs that are just as bad or worse. Or maybe we end up with an extended AoSTH comic for the Americas. Interesting to think on.
>>144269171>Or maybe we end up with an extended AoSTH comic for the Americas.I wanna live in this timeline.
>>144269133Americanization certainly had an affect. Who knows, maybe the original japanese Sonic could have done well in overseas. But you know, we can't know for certain. He certainly seems to be doing well now with his japanese incarnation being the main one nowadays but would he have had the big boost American Sonic had in the first place? Does it matter, since what matters most to people who critique American Sonic is pointing out that the idea that original creator's ideas should be changed without permission is bad. I think American 90s Sonic is a pretty cool guy, and would still be widely liked if he was originally like that in Japan. Maybe the reasons the classics didn't do so well in Japan was just that Sonic wasn't a character that fit their culture, while Japanese Sonic would maybe appeal to the west.
>>144269156Only AoStH Sonic was good.
>>144269233Who is just like game Sonic. Minus the Bugs Bunny-esque trickster part.
>>144269233SatAM was good, and I think even if it was un-Sonic it still holds up to the test of time. Very atmospheric, and ominous feeling.
>>144269143But doesn't Slott have a bad reputation for Spider-man comics? He wrote some great stories, but consistently didn't write super well sometimes. I guess that might be comparable to IDW Ian I guess, but didn't Ian write pretty consistently well during Archie?
>>144269114Slott Ren and Stimpy. And I guess Slott TMNT.
>>144268631>I guess they decided to use a filteror they banged an indian giant squirrel
>>144269212>people who critique American Sonic is pointing out that the idea that original creator's ideas should be changed without permissionthose people know nothing about Sonic. Sonic's story was a total nothingburger until DiC came along. SEGA couldn't even decide what his story should be, so they came up with several different ones. you had the game's story which is just>Eggman is doing bad things! Stop him, Sonic!the manga>Nikki transforms in to his future self like an '80s magical girl!whatever tf the cold war fighter pilot shit was supposed to be>some guy crashed and died and became Sonic and he comes back to help his human daughter!and then the interview with Sonic in SEGA's newsletter that says he comes from a totally different world than us.it was all a big mess, SatAM was at least coherent.
>>144269549>Nikki transforms in to his future self like an '80s magical girl!He doesn't transform. His future self is temporarily replacing him. >>144259861
>>144259905There was also an event that happened in Hedgehog Town 50 Years Ago. Sound familiar?
>>144256376>Why doesn't Sega just publish their own comic written by their team if they're so worried about this shit.Because that would require doing the work to publish such a thing.
I'm both intrigued and disturbed by these new Sonic "neo-puritans:" the people who steadfastly cling to the idea that there is some untampered with "pure" canon exclusive to the Japanese versions of the games only, and it's our divine duty as Sonic Team's earthly (read: social media) hands to preserve that from the pernicious westerner. It feels like a subset of Sonic fans got so broken that they just had to latch onto any explanation they could for why Sonic keeps failing, and since so many of them are weebs who put Japan on a pedestal, then it became "it's not Sonic Team that's failing, actually everyone else is failing Sonic Team." Since they don't speak Japanese and the Japanese side of Sonic corporate are much less accessible than the western side, it becomes easy to say "that thing that's bad? That wasn't the same in Japan. It was better there," or "Only the westerners confirmed this thing so therefore it's not right because the Japanese didn't say it." I do think it's extremely disturbing that people are investing so much of themselves in defending a corporation and their actions, regardless of if they're good or bad. Just yesterday we had people arguing for the purity of Bark and Bean's writing, two characters that prior to the comics -had no characterization at all.-
>>144258440>So where are they now?
>>144269654so then where does Nikki go?
>>144261298Nope, still there.
>>144269654also>People think Nikki will turn in to Sonic, but that's not true! The truth is that Nikki will turn in to Sonic as he grows up!gee, what a distinction.
>>144269746And for Japan to like him to begin with.
>>144269762Well I want to agree with you to the extent that I want to defend Archie and SatAM from people who believe they shouldn't have ever existed. You're wrong at least on that last point. Bean and Bark had established characters beforehand, and they should be respected.I think the conclusion I've reached is that its alright for alternate takes on characters to exist but its wrong to overwrite the works of the original creators. But that kind of happens in the comics world though as torch is passed from writer to writer, so is it different in a games franchise?
>>144261456>That literally never happened, retarded lorefags misquoted Iizuka and psyopped themselves into feeling like victims.>Q:Recently, I heard a theory that the "two worlds" is actually a mistranslation and that Izuka really meant something more metaphorical than literal. Has SEGA clarified to you that it is in fact two separate planets or dimensions, or is that just an assumption you are going with? From what I can tell in the games, the idea that the human "world" is made separate from the furry "world" could just be that Sonic Team doesn't think humans fit the flavor of the games they are making, not that they literally exist in another dimension.Ian: I have seen that attempt to rationalize things and it's very insightful, it just shows the level of nuance in translating between 2 different languages and how things can go very wrong very fast. Kudos to the person for making that effort. HOWEVER, I have been instructed at multiple points in my career that it is "literally" two different planets. I received a series bible toward the end of the Archie Sonic days that specified that they are two different planets in two different dimensions. When we were starting the IDW book, I specifically asked about how are we going to set things up for the book, what can we use, where are we setting it, and it was explained that yes, it's two different planets that are accessed via secret giant rings which we have never seen, which are never referenced but that's the explanation I was given so...It's like the Silver thing, I see fans bending over backwards trying their best to make it work when *inhale* it doesn't, and it makes me sad. There's so much love and creativity in the fandom and I hate to be the party pooper saying "You're wrong." I kinda wonder if I should just stop. [Laughter] If that's what works for you just go with it, because I don't feel like anyone is being happy with these answers.
>>144257156Japan has very rigid demographics for comics and Sonic doesn't fit them. You can't have a cartoon character hero in a superhero comic; those two things don't work together in standard jap storytelling. Japan genuinely doesn't like non-human characters in the first place; Pokemon has mostly completely shoved the monsters themselves to the side to favor the human characters in marketing. Digimon is stuck in comedy manga hell too, with another being announced just the other day.Hell, Transformers, a war story that often skews teen-adult in the west, is for literal babies in Japan because the Japanese think non-piloted robots (and pre-assembled toys) are childish. They had to recut all of Beast Wars and Prime to redub it into a comedy show. For Prime, they even cut out the entire ending of the show because it was "too dark" and just had all the characters stand around smiling and waving bye bye to the kids.Sonic just has no market there. There's just no concept of a non-human hero.
>>144261083>IDW Sonic is 10 years oldIDW Sonic started in 2018, you still have 4 more years left.
>>144269841n...no that's wrong because Ian said it and Ian is wrong because he's not Japanese so there I win.
>>144269762To be fair, the Sonic franchise isn't exactly known for portraying its characters consistently
>>144269840Not much, really; the koopaling's relation to Bowser Jr. was a perfect example of this.
>>144269883Doesn't matter now, its all one world. Until Sega changes their mind again.
>>144269905Explain
>>144269920Miyamoto says the Koopalings aren't Bowser's kids anymore. No one believes him.
>>144269946miyamoto is a retard
Wait so how do the canon purists deal with the idea that Classic Sonic went from Past Sonic to Second World Sonic back to the same world Sonic again? Is it like doomsday cultists where they say "we just misinterpreted the texts it was always this way" or what
>>144269974Easy: Forces never happened.andnothingofvaluewaslost.jpg
>>144269974Classic Sonic just went back to what he normally was. Sonic from the past. The alt dimension stuff was a completely new thing Sega tried to push in one game.
>>144269982i still think it's funny that SEGA has not released the sales figures for Forces to this very day
>>144270100Cuz it flopped. Just like 06.And just like 06, they pretend they never made it.
>>144270119It's a budget title that got on to the switch. It's impossible for it to flop.
>>144270216Then where are the sales numbers, hm?Probably don't want people to see how much worse it did than Mania.
>>144268041How? His proportions, gloves, shoes and geneeral face fits the Sonic aesthetic.>>144267282Is this a Skylanders dragon?
>>144270485Thats Trip from Superstars.
>>144270119>And just like 06, they pretend they never made it.Except when IDW is concerned, that's why we have the Restoration and the Bitchy Sheep convinced she can do a better job at being a hero than Sonic.
Archie fans what do you think of the Restoration Surge, Starline, etc, and the fact that an Archie writer is writing for the games.
>>144269851>You can't have a cartoon character hero in a superhero comicMonkey D. Luffy says hi.
>>144270630Dull, dull, dull.
>>144270029Which is funny because I believe they tried that silliness because they didn't want Classic Sonic catching up with Modern via Adventure, when a certain other blue hero has clear time jumps but kept things open for future games of any part of it's IP (except for one)
>>144270668Battle Network's ending was kino.Unrelated bitching: I always felt even back then the fandom did Geo dirty, it was the time people really hated emo subculture and Geo being depressed over his father's believed death in space instead of a static shonen protagonist like Lan threw people to a fit because "go cry me a river, emo boy". SF2 over corrected by making him Diet Lan.
>>144270485>Is this a Skylanders dragon?nope! it's an official Oshima character design! can't fit better than that, huh?
>>144270727BN ending would have been perfect IF Capcom had allowed the dev to actually make an older Lan and the gang instead of sitting on a static image of Lan's house. As for Geo, yeah he got done dirty, but some did bring up the fact that Geo not interacting with others and not going to school for 3 years was a bit much. If the game had started a couple of months after his dad disappeared they probably would have been more receptive. Also, funny thing, I was talking about the Zero series being the only one that can't continue since he fucking dies at the end of 4.
>>144270847BN could continue, but probably shouldn't.
>>144259386>Every time I look at this comic there's a new character.You say that as if Archie wasn't just as guilty of this..
>>144269851>There's just no concept of a non-human hero.Actually fascinating, why is that?>>144270632He's still human, I think anon was talking about animal cartoon characters/ anthros
Spider-man 616 vs whole of Archie Sonic which is better
>>144270986I don't really know. Maybe it's due to marketing, like a mirror of how in the west animation itself is exclusively for kids. But if you look at Japanese heroes, they're never non-humanoids. They can be aliens or robots but they always look human, unless it's a gag manga. They also really, really hate non-protagonists. In the west you can make toys of villains but in Japan not only do villain toys never sell but they also don't even make toys of characters that aren't the main protaganist. Sentai is especially bad about it- the only teams that get full teams are ones that have overseas appeal like Zyuranger/Mighty Morphin. Japanese fans were importing the Lightning Collection toys because they were the only source of full teams and monsters that have ever been made.
>>144267272Because they're canon, unlike shartchie and shatam.
>>144271071You mean Artchie Fartchie and Shartchie
>>144268699People liked Sonic back then because of aosth, not because of satam.
>>144268950>Angel of the Battlefield?That shit was forced and unbelievable even in her first issue. >>144269297>He wrote some great storiesExactly, which is something Ian has never done.
>>144269549>SatAM was at least coherent.Then Archie came along and had lore that was just as inconsistent as all those origins you just mentioned.
>>144269832Everyine likes manga more than mutt comics, it would unironically improve Sonic's image in the west to have a manga written by the japanese.
>>144271194But no one in Japan like him enough to write it.
>>144269762Why does it bother you so much that people like japanese Sonic more than american Sonic?
>>144271194japan hates sonic so no I don't think a low effort gag manga made by people who already hate the brand would "improve sonic's image in the west"
>>144271101Everyone rightfully hated AOSTH back then
>>144271172Archie was great it had darkness and seriousness sometimes and an expansive world that was a combination of everything in the past. Archie is my second favorite continuity, second only to games from 1998-2009. Why don't you like it? Do you just not think Sonic with serious stories is bad.
>>144271225>why does [headcanon] you so much that [I shit myself oh god not again moooooom]go change your underwear I'm not humoring you kiddo
>>144271225Why does it bother you so much that some people like american Sonic more than japanese Sonic?
America and Japan has failed the brand, let's get a brit like Alan Moore to write Sonic this time
>>144271246>Do you just not think Sonic with serious stories is bad.Ding ding ding. Serious Sonic is stupid, as 06 and Forces have proven.
What's about Satam/Archie that mindbrokes /sthg/ niggers so much?>>144266613
>>144271225I really like American 90s Sonic, he has that 90s attitude and swagger. Japanese Sonic just is kind of cool headed but humble and kind at times, which is way different. These characters have way different appeals.
>>144271101bull fucking shit where are you zoomer retards getting this shit? Every kid was just confused by Adventures because it didn't tie into what we knew as "the good one." I remember being a kid and seeing the TV guide say "Sonic" and having to go check if it was "the good one" or not. It was just this weird ugly looney tunes show that happened to have Sonic in it that wasn't the cool superhero one. Nobody gave a fuck about Adventures until YTPs came along, and after that it picked up some steam with animation heads, but it was NEVER something kids wanted to see.
>>144271207I've watched a lot of anime which kind of makes me japanese and an expert on their culture, so I would write it. The story would be about Nicky who is in real life crossing the street but suddenly gets hit by a truck, then he wakes up in Green Hill Zone as Sonic. He can't fly or punch through walls so everyone thinks he has the weakest ability, but the more rings he stores in his inventory which is shown as a floating screen in front of him when he activates it, the faster he goes. It would be called "The Weakest Hedgehog Becomes the Fastest Thing Alive!? I Reincarnated as Sonic the Hedgehog!"
>>144271297unironically they're too young to remember it
>>144271071>i hate that garbage shit shatam lmao why can't it be a masterpiece like Sonic and the Black Knightbeautiful
>>144247687>Knuckles is an african guygod I fucking hate american comics.
>>144271315One person does not represent everyone, buddy. I preferred Adventures everytime.>>144271317Thats a light novel.
>>144271325>/pol/tard sees out of context image and invents something to make himself mad
>>144271297Shatamfags and shartchieniggers are the ones that shitpost in the general the most.
>>144247900Whenever I feel bad about not being as good as other people when it comes to art...I look at penders comics and instantly feel better.
>>144271335yeah but you're boco. We all know you're retarded.
>>144271281Serious Sonic is good. And Archie is the continuity that delves the deepest into that, which is why I have an affinity with it.
>>144250200>monthly release>made by multiple people>they don't even shade the characterswhat the fuck. why do fanmade comics look better than this lmao
>>144269800>liesGot to love how this is the first, last, and only defense of the japanese Sonic hater.
>>144263543NTA, but definitely do and always have. The fact you didn't even mention the humans of Unleashed proves exactly why. Pixar Monder Sonic is designed with those pixar modern humans in mind, so they work ok, and for what it's worth the anime looking chibi modern Sonic goes well enough with the generic anime humans of X/SA1, but SA2 mutt humans, Boom ayys, Doom boss, and FF11 Boss designs has always clashed to me no matter how many modernfags say otherwise.The furries of western Sonic media has never really felt like it belonged with the game cast because the females don't were the same amount of clothes the game cast do, and the male furries end up waring too much which is where the DeviantArt meme came from. Not to mention, most of the furries of Satam and AoSTH have this explicitly Looney Tunes feeling to them, which is why Boco is the faggiest retard ever thinking that's what the games "should be". The games were never looney tunes like Crash Bandicoot, they were at best earlier era Mickey Mouse/Felix the Cat with toon physics but a more grounded sense of reality to their world. Which is why the humans of those media should be used as a bases of Sonic's art direct at best, but still mixed in with Japanese sensibilities. So basically, like the Disney animators kind of human designs.
>>144269211Continuing to spit ball this what if. The book probably turns into something like reboot Archie minus SatAM. The shows are pretty much dead by the 10s-20s irc and the books start to get a little less looney toons. The sega adaptions are less awkward and gives SS chars more time to shine. Biggest loss imo would be no Mecha Maddness.
>>144269841Ian has lied so much about mandates that he's lost all credibility. The fact that he is the only official source saying this is very suspect.
>>144271101personally, there was room in my heart for both, but you're wrong.so were you actually alive back then or are you basing this on how many le funny XD youtube poops the show got?
>>144271172i never got in to the comics. after the show was canceled, i tried, but they were just so bad i never bought another one.i still have the issue.
>>144271402>they're lies because..... because they just are okay?! that guy who called you all neo-puritans is right. You're a fucking cult. Everything Sonic Team does is right and if something is wrong, well, some social malefactor lied to try and make Sonic Team look bad
>>144269851Japan has simply realized a truth that the childminded manbabies of /co/ refuse to acknowledge: that non-human characters with human personalities would be more honestly presented if they were just human. There is no reason to give them a non-human design if they are technically human in everything but visual appearance. Japs are humanfags and as a human myself I respect that about them.
>>144269762>I'm both intrigued and disturbed by these new Sonic "neo-puritans:" the people who steadfastly cling to the idea that there is some untampered with "pure" canon exclusive to the Japanese versions of the games only, and it's our divine duty as Sonic Team's earthly (read: social media) hands to preserve that from the pernicious westerner.We just called them autism tards. It makes a lot more sense when you realize sonic is their thomas.
>>144271408I distinctly remember never knowing which Sonic show I was watching and being confused between them, but I was always excited when I got SATAM or Underground instead of AOSTH. I just changed the channel if it was Adventures.
>>144271367It's a style.>>144271427It's a huge mess and archiefags like to say that as a positive but honestly it's a legitimate complaint so don't feel too bad. You gave it a shot.
>>144270029>Classic Sonic just went back to what he normally was. Sonic from the past.The past of five months ago? The classic cast are the same age as their modern selves. Classic Amy got retconned into being 12 like her modern counterpart. It's a Toon Link situation IE it's just a different art style. Classic Sonic isn't literally Kid Sonic, but Sonic in a more kiddy G-rated environment. Nick Jr Sonic. Modern's for older kids and younger teens. Nickelodeon Sonic.
>>144271376>Pixar Monder Sonic is designed with those pixar modern humans in mind, so they work ok, and for what it's worth the anime looking chibi modern Sonic goes well enough with the generic anime humans of X/SA1, but SA2 mutt humans, Boom ayys, Doom boss, and FF11 Boss designs has always clashed to me no matter how many modernfags say otherwise.No...
>>144271453>There is no reason to give them a non-human design if they are technically human in everything but visual appearanceEspecially since the Japs give human characters colorful designs anyway. So making them colorful cartoon animals would be pointless.
>>144271402Literally every major Sonic writer from this century has stated in some capacity that mandates are an issue.
>>144271067This explains a lot about Star Fox and Donkey Kong. And how they were right....
>>144271498I think Bollers issues were decent most of the time and not bad. Penders ones on the other hand were kinda bad at times. Ian's stuff is pretty amazing imo.I gave it a shot and loved the series, because of what it was trying to do. The tone, the style of story it was, the romance drama, all of it.Now I think all of our opinions all have equal value.
>>144271457I am a /toy/ user and occasionally go on safari in the Thomas threads and I can say with certainty that the Sonic puritans are way worse than the Thomas autists. Thomas autists generally agree that Thomas has gone downhill, are able to identify the different generations and changes to the brand, and identify that companies like Mattel are fucking them up. There's a huge controversy over stuff like the wooden toy train lines getting discontinued or fucked over. The big difference as far as I can see it is that Thomas autists can see their enemies as the company fucking them over, while Sonic autists see their enemy as somebody one step away from the company. It's not Sonic Team that's bad; it's the impurities preventing Sonic Team's true vision that causes bad things to happen. And I think the vast majority of that translates directly to how much of a pedestal you put Japan on.
>>144271429The guy who wrote Scrapnik Island pretty much said that Ian was full of shit.
>>144271547both were more popular in the west and handled by western teams iirc
>>144247687>Honey the CatOUGH>SONIC-MAN HEROESI'd buy all their merchandise.
>>144271568No he didn't. You are making things up again.
>>144271576Well, the best DK games are made in the west, anyway.
>>144270630>IDW gave us callbacks, waifus, a Freedom Fighters group, and the Archie writer on both the comic and the gamesArchiefags have gotten literally everything they asked for and they're still the biggest fucking whiners in the fandom. That's why everyone hates them.
>>144271568He didn't. He said he was surprised by how little regulation he got on making the comic.
The less Shitga influence the better
>>144269784It's time travel. So when Nicky disappears, he's actually being sent forward a bit to the moment when his older self fucks off. It's like a second for him, but minutes or hours for everyone else.
>>144269809It's because people thought it was Jekyll and Hyde situation, when it was always just time travel. Time travel has been baked into the IP from the start. Sonic 2 originally dealt with story based time travel similar to Chrono Trigger.
>>144270727People hated Geo for good reason, he spends too much of the game bitching and the gameplay was worse than even something as far back and basic as bn2.>>144271045Spider-Man has always been himself and Archie is barely like Sonic at all so probably Spider-Man.
>>144271586I just got here, dude.
>>144271543Licensed works almost always come with mandates and guidelines. It's standard.
>>144271067>Japan idolizes heroes>westcucks idolize villains so much the Suicide Squad got a game before the Justice League didAnd you say this like it's supposed to make Japan look bad.
>>144271565>mfw even thomas is better than sonic fandom
>>144271642I meant the series. Personally I think Archie Sonic is a great character with depth even if he isn't really the Sonic we know and love from the games.
>>144269762Because to me, everyone not working WITH Sonic Team is no better than being fan fiction. If calling a fan game or fan comic "more canon" to what the literal creators of which said idea came to be, you are not going to agree with me that I have a right to claim fan shit overrides the creators vision. I can say "this fan thing is just as good or was more fun than what the official creators are doing" but that's not claiming ownership of an IP no matter how good it is. It's the law. You cannot take something and claim you own it because you did it better than someone else. Take it to count to claim you deserve the idea to yourself because you believe you can utilize it better than the other party, but until you do, you are encroaching on someone's property and that's again the law. Companies have a right to CnD everyone's fan content since the day the law was indited, it's own used against them in most cases is why they don't follow through with it so they just turn the other cheek and hope it doesn't get nasty, like with Penders. Nintendo is the crown jewel of what it looks like to be affected by someone willing to take back their rights to their property and who it's distributed. As far as all of these visions of Sonic games, it does not matter how bad or good they are, or how bad or good the officially licensed stuff is, whoever is the owner of the IP itself, that is, Sonic Team of Japan and SEGASammy Inc, has FINAL say. If they don't want your shit, tough shit. Not matter how much you cry for a kids IP to be treated with "respect", it's THEIR property. Only the most anti American of Americans would devalue ownership of property when we were founded on this fundamental property of living standards in the first place. To rid the very idea someone else could just up and take YOUR shit you worked hard on. Wanna do something about it? Make your OWN work with your OWN ideas no one else is using.
>>144271642>Spider-Man has always been himselfNope.
>>144271548Not when yours is "archie being inconsistent is a good thing."
>>144271692Only read the first sentence of this. You sound retarded. Good day.
>>144271674The West don't like boyscouts. Japs are all for them and the status quo.
>>144271674Justice League had a game over a decade before SS for xbox/pc/ps2. Medicore if I remember right but far better than that SS shit. Also each hero has had countless arcade games of the 80s/90s that are good.
>>144271702That's the reality of long running works.
>>144271702Well my perspective is that the lore and worldbuilding has depth and complexity. That's what this franchise is missing. Depth. Archie just fills that hole where no other part of the franchise has. Even if the dark ages stories touched these topics, none has gone as in depth about serious subject matters as Archie has. Now I wish it had been done better with better writers, but I more like the idea of what Archie was trying to be.
>>144269851>Hell, Transformers, a war story that often skews teen-adult in the west, is for literal babies in Japan because the Japanese think non-piloted robots (and pre-assembled toys) are childish. They had to recut all of Beast Wars and Prime to redub it into a comedy show. For Prime, they even cut out the entire ending of the show because it was "too dark" and just had all the characters stand around smiling and waving bye bye to the kids.Huh, I never knew this. This explains Metabots all to much now. Is this also why they killed off Megaman because he wasn't a real human? And why later iterations of him basically became more and more human to the point they were just humans being empowered by the Mega Man "persona" like full on Kamen Rider type shit?>Sonic just has no market there. There's just no concept of a non-human hero.This. Westerners just need to accept we are the only people on this planet romanticizing animals as people more than actual people. It's ok for fiction sake but the truth is we literally inject that into reality because we all hate each other over here.
>>144271642>Spider-Man has always been himself
>>144271827>Is this also why they killed off Megaman because he wasn't a real human?You can still have human-like heroes who are creatures, like Kitaro or Astro Boy, but they always act human. But yeah Mega Man becoming a transformation later is definitely a factor of it.
>>144271836That's just what happens with all long running stories with many different writers with different visions. Things tend to get weird, like with superhero comics.
>>144271565>I am a /toy/ userOpinion discarded
>>144271827>And why later iterations of him basically became more and more human to the point they were just humans being empowered by the Mega Man "persona" like full on Kamen Rider type shit?Is this why Legends Rock is almost always shown without his helmet? And why Roll shows up in a lot of stuff without her brother?
>>144271630>CT invented time travel
>>144271884roll shows up for coomer reasons
>>144271891It's a comparison, dude. That way others can better understand.
>>144271738That's probably why japs are more civilized than american apes.
>>144271906Wasn't there a Capcom artist that was legit obsessed with her?
>>144271906Hey, stop that.
>>144271926>more civilizedmore cowed and docile*
>>144271926It's all fake though. It's all for appearances. They go so far with it to the point of sociopathy.
>>144271931She ain't real. Who cares?
>>144271910Anon we know what fucking time travel is and if we didn't it isn't like CT would be our only point of reference. You're a fucking retard. Do you know what a retard is? Maybe I should bring up Big the Cat so you know what I'm talking about.
>>144269982>>144270029And is thanks to that is why the very concept a Mania and superstars as a result are utterly ruined.The natural idea of Generations was to either solitfy classic Sonic was destined to become Modern Sonic and all of the cringe anime autism is set to stone, or realize that moment fundimentally split the direction of what modern and classic Sonic end up becoming, making Mania enter a quasi state where it could branch off into a timeline that may never ever become the modern direction. Basically idealiing the classic fandom's dreams of everything since SA1 being retconed out of classic's direction, and a new direction based on classic sonic's depection of art direction, story telling and world building could be finally explored and established. But that clearly got regected when mania shat on Forces's respection so strongly that it would lead to a likely situation that modern Sonic could in fact, be canceled in favor of doing the classic Sonic directhion instead, like Crash 4 did by retconning out the Crash of the Titans era of Crash out of the canon. Which ever 2000s fag would nuke Japan if they did that so everything was dropped in favor of returning to the notion that every classic Sonic game ever no matter what will always predate SA1, to retroactively canonizie it into the modern timeline from now one.Which is such a waste of time and energy they might as well never bothered with Mania in the first place. It's clear the japs are never going to let go of the claim to Sonic's direction being all there's, even if this costs game quality and brain consistency in the process, but giving how splintered the entire sonic fanbase is at this rate, it might just not be worth it anyways, because too many factors will just slowly creep in like Shatam and AoSTHshit being retroactively added to the classic styled games because "they are classic characters too" which will just add more splitting of the timeline just for fags to get their way.
>>144271864Japan may have liked Sonic had he look like pic related.
>>144271964She's my daughteru. Don't lewd her.
>>144271948Yeah them not having weekly school shootings is all an act lmfao>>144271970Ian was right, the fans do overthink Sega's kneejerk decisions.
>>144271966The fuck is your damage, asshole? The point of comparison is to establish that Sonic 2 wasn't doing what CD did, as many believed before proven otherwise.
>>144270792>can't fit better than that, huh?It does fit. Just not as a super form. Easier could be a chao like animal creature from an ancient Asian based race.If she just gain wings as big as Rouge's and go golden she'd be perfectly fine as a super form. The style itself is on model to classic.
>>144272010I hate you. I lewd roll just to spite your autistic tripfag ass.
>>144272014>Yeah them not having weekly school shootings is all an act lmfaoWe don't have those either. Touch grass, dude. For real.
>>144272014I think the fanbase as a whole would be better off on both sides if people realized Sega doesn't think for even half a second about the retarded things they mandate. Ian's talked multiple times about how they'll flipflop and give totally incoherent and conflicting answers on things. They don't actually have a rational and coherent opinion of what Sega is; the only people who care about that are the fans (and the western writers, who are just elevated fans)
>>144271610>he effectively ceases to exist until his future self is donethe way this is laid out is very bizarre. so Sonic has become a sort of time ouroboros. when Nikki gets older, he will have to remember all the times he traveled back or risk incurring a paradox.
>>144271692>You cannot take something and claim you own it because you did it better than someone else.oh, anon, you can do anything with enough money behind you
>>144271884>Legends Rockisn't that Volnutt?
>>144269762This post is shades of schizo and seething.
>>144272080He's already a living paradox to begin with >>144259905
>>144272142Ain't that his last name?
>>144272034>It does fit. Now here's why it doesn't.okay
>>144271453Saberspark actively showcase the mindset of Americans and their titillation to humanify and relate to furries. Something to do with "Humans just remind us of ourselves too much to empathize with" while animal people "allows you to feel for their struggles and, while relating to them, want to see them overcome their issues in a way us humans aren't doing" or something like that. Which is rather fucked up since human fucking beings write these cartoons so what can't you do that Lola Bunny or Judy Rabbit can? Just sounds like mentally ill cope to me, that americans just hate each other and can't stomach dealing with them. Which actively explains why every other nation makes human made media of humans, because they care about each other.
>>144272151this shit is a mess.
>>144272150meant for >>144271692
>>144272069I think it's less of a mandate and more of the lack of collaboration between SEGA and IDW; namely, the lack of creative input from the Japanese writers and designers of Sonic Team themselves.
>>144272165yeah, and since that is not Rockman's last name, it means he's a different Rockman, doesn't it? an AU Rockman or the like?
>>144272045Being a contrarian doesn’t make you special.
>>144272210Those people don't have any say in the brand though. Sonic Team's "writing" is handled by their marketing team.
>>144271453so how do you reconcile your beliefs with the rise of kemono?
>>144272188Sonic created himself. The end.
>>144271225Can't accept that "their" Sonic was just the result of typical American localization like an anime dub from back in the day that would edit and change content for American audiences. They also feel that if people like the original Japanese Sonic their Sonic will be forgotten even though "American Sonic" hasn't been relevant in decades and only mattered to one part pf the world. The same thing happens with Archie with the unwillingness to accept that it was side media and was not the main part of the franchise. All franchises have different side medias, but Sonic fans seem to be the only ones who are unable to grasp how this concept works for bizarre reason.
>>144272239Literally humans with cartoon animal heads.
>>144272207Nope. Stop trying to hijack my post.
>>144272069>how they'll flipflop and give totally incoherent and conflicting answers on thingsRemember when they told Ian that the Master Emerald is not to be shown having any special abilities? And when Ian asked how it keeps Angel Island floating they just ignored him?
>>144272244>but Sonic fans seem to be the only ones who are unable to grasp how this concept works for bizarre reason.Autism, dude. It's always autism.
>>144272069>(and the western writers, who are just elevated fans)You actually think Ian and Evan write good?
>>144271671So he didn't lie about them.
>>144272270I think they meant that they don't want it to just do whatever the writer wants it to.
>>144257775There's a whole lot of gritty shit that can't be told using live-action. Trained actors buy a lot of suspension of disbelief by provoking old instinctive responses. The stories they star in can't deviate too much from power fantasy for that reason. But pen and paper don't have that limitation.
>>144272278>write goodplease learn english yourself before you go around accusing other people of bad writing, my good ESL
>>144272261what the fuck dude you're not me. Back off.
>>144269746More like they saw what happened to Shifty Look and decided not to go that route.
>>144272304What was wrong with that sentence, retard? Maybe you're the ESL here projecting.
>>144272332do a google search for "adjectives vs adverbs"
>>144272382WRITEGOODSeethe your ass off over a normal sentence, big man.
>>144272250so are most furries?
>>144272406>unga bunga me write good ook ook me press buttons make letters on magic box
>>144272240time ouroboros. devourer of causality.
>>144270630>StarlineWas cool but bit Eggman in terms of characterization. Belle and Mr. Tinker didn't have this problem, so I have to say they just got a bit greedy and tried to have their Metal Virus cake and eat it too.>RestorationGood save, glad something was salvageable from Forces. Don't much care about the two worlds drama, but if nothing comes of it, then that's a quiet shame.>Surge and KitThey've got good designs and interesting characters, but they're petering out fast. I hope they don't end up like Belle, just thrown in as a vehicle for immaterial audience reeducation.>Flynn as a game writerI hope he does well, as I hope any writer does. He seems to have a good head on his shoulders, but I can't see through his PR fog any better than any other professional's.
>>144272470>Don't much care about the two worlds drama,There is no drama, that as retconned out.
I'm reading Archie Sonic for the first time right now, just getting to the Knuckles miniseries, it's okay I guess.Waiting for some actual stuff to happen.
>>144272489>you can't blame sonic team for fucking this thing up because they got cold feet after doing it and flip flopped
>>144272502archie is a series of peaks and valleys. I think it gets really good around 25-50, then I remember it faltering, then at around 100 I remember it getting good, and then I think 175 is when it gets really really good and keeps going
>>144272502Once Penders starts putting his ideas he had for his own works into the comic, specifically the Knuckles series, things start to become snore-worthy. Be warned. It starts becoming very self-indulgent.
>>144272431Those characters have human proportions and wear regular clothes. It's a Bojack situation, but anime.
>>144272173Other nations also don't make as much media as we do.
>>144272539160 is when Ian's run started and that's what you're probably talking about. I think it was decent-mediocre between Sonic Adventure arc and Ian's run, with the high of 125-141 in between because it was just a good memorable series of arcs for me. Especially Return to Angel Island.
>>144272579>Be warned. It starts becoming very self-indulgent.I've heard.Something about echidna wakanda and family drama?
>>144272597It's been a long time and remembering specific issue numbers is hard. I remember there being a weird period there when they build the new Knothole but I remember liking it. I can't remember when the worst of Penders happened because it just did not leave an impact on me the way it apparently did everyone else; I don't really remember the lows.
>>144272629Basically.
So before this thread times out, what's better Archie or IDW?
>>144272629I thought the lore was cool but the way it was delivered in the story was a little boring and hard to read, with the exposition too much info dumps, and other problems that I can't really figure out. Better off just reading the lore of it off of a wiki. Its actually fascinating when read in that form, the echidna knuckles lore at least, and more entertaining than in the actual comic.
>>144272665Which Archie?We got a total of four eras:GagPendersFlynnReboot
>>144272665Archie. Archie is way more expansive and has the freedom to do more. If you want to see characters interacting with each other and doing cool stuff, then Archie is the way to go. IDW is just the games cast hanging out with extremely strict Sega mandates yanking their leash every couple issues, and they can never reference anything from the games.
>>144272665Archie. It has more developments and changes and heroes can win and lose. Things had consequences, it felt more like that. Sure there's the weirdness but its overexaggerated for effect online. Once you're used to the inconsistent art style of the bad period, its not so bad to read. Most of the main stories were competently written, while the echidna secondary stories weren't so much.
>>144272665Fleetway.
>>144272693this is disingenuous. The early gag comic builds the foundation for the later comic. It grows into itself; it's not like they're totally separate.
>>144272727>They can never reference anything from the games.Why would they do that?
>>144272742there's always that one contrarian
>>144272665IDW isn't tainted by SatAM, so IDW.
How does Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Comics) comics in general compare to The Amazing Spider-man (616)
>>144272173>"Humans just remind us of ourselves too much to empathize with"I hate americans so god damn much
>>144272592>Those characters have human proportions and wear regular clothes....like most furries?
>>144272244>Can't accept that "their" Sonic was just the result of typical American localization like an anime dub from back in the day that would edit and change content for American audiences. They also feel that if people like the original Japanese Sonic their Sonic will be forgotten even though "American Sonic" hasn't been relevant in decades and only mattered to one part pf the world.Hit the nail on the head
Sega called Sonic fans "toxic"
>>144272281He lied that he's only allowed to write bad stories when Scrapnik and the chao race arc proved him wrong.
>>144272800Where's the lie?
>>144272800It's true though.The Sonic fanbase is fucking terrible dude
>>144272539Archie started great and for me it died the moment Sonic falls into that rings and emeralds lsd trip where the entire issue is a lore dump for the most boring lore I've ever read.
>>144272665Archie has higher highs but not often enough to be better than IDW.
>>144272760how do you hold in your head the thoughts "the games are the only thing that matter and should be held above all else" with "the games can never be referenced in any way" simultaneously?
>>144272819>He lied that he's only allowed to write bad storiesHe never said that>the chao race arc proved him wrong>implying CRABB was goodkek
>>144272800the toxic fan argument is the last ditch defense for a company that has fucked up. "We aren't the problem, you are!"
>>144272665Archie
>>144272693Which Sonic? We got classic, adventure, modern, and modern but worse.Archie. Just Archie. You don't get to pick and cope like this just because you know for a fact that the product taken as a whole is less qualified than IDW.
>>144272729>its overexaggeratedIf anything anons undersell it>Most of the main stories were competently writtenThese aren't even rose tinted glasses, this anon has roses straight up growing out of his eyes.
>>144272742Notice how no one ever talks or cares about it?
>>144272937I read it recently and Bollers stuff is far from bad. Its competently written. Its not boring, and is somewhat entertaining. Besides the editorially forced romance drama, I honestly don't see what the big fuss is.
>>144272877>the NEW games can never be referenced in any wayIt's so they don't spoil shit from them you dense retard. That said they should do promotional stories for new games like they did for TSR but that would cost more pennies.
>>144272903>Sonic fans aren't toxic, Sega is lying!This is the most powerful history revisionism I've ever seen
>>144272980isn't it funny how every brand that starts fucking around with its continuity and antagonizing its fanbase suddenly gets a "toxic fandom?" Star Wars, Marvel, Ghostbusters...
Some good Sonicky weirdness who wants the biggest amount of it? A lot of it can be found in the Archie comics
>>144272971Where did Sonic Team say this?
>>144273064It's explicitly implied since everything before Forces is fair game for callbacks
>>144273143So they didn't say it. It's weird that you'd just make that up then but okay.
>>144273018>suddenlyFucking kek. Sonic fans have famously been the bane of anyone who had this misfortune of interacting with them since the 2000s. FAMOUSLY. Literally unanimously agreed to be THE most toxic fanbase, you would have to be a complete newfag not to know this.
>>144273172I never said that they said it, I just used basic pattern recognition to be able to see something so obvious.
>>144273220Funny way to say "I made it up"
>>144273248Funny way to say "there is a really obvious explanation but I'm going to choose to interpret reality as making no sense because I don't want to understand because only grown ups understand things"
>>144273276But they're isn't an "obvious explanation." There is absolutely nothing saying that Sonic Team cares one iota about "spoilers" or that this relates in any way to why Sonic Team bans references to the games. This is your headcanon, and you're getting mad about people not accepting it as gospel.
>>144273310>There is absolutely nothing saying that Sonic Team cares one iota about "spoilers" or that this relates in any way to why Sonic Team bans references to the games....Except the lack of references to post-Forces games. You may now seethe.
>>144273387They haven't included any characters from Homestuck in IDW Sonic either. Does that mean that Sonic Team doesn't want to spoil Homestuck?
>>144273426Thanks for the laugh, anon.
Archie won.
>>144273870by dying in agony.meanwhile, IDW characters are actually getting spots in games.
>>144273886Idwfags are delusional
>>144273938>speed battle doesn't existWho's the delusional one?
>>144273976>mobile shitKek
Archie sonic will always be the true sonic universe to me. Nothing else comes close to being as good
>>144273987how many games did Archie characters get in again?and before you say any of the Freedom Fighters: those are DiC characters, anon.
>>144273886Call me crazy but is it just me who really does not give a fuck about comic characters getting into the games? Their exclusivity to the comics is what makes them cool to me
>>144273886Archie will never die, and I say that as someone who finished reading it very recently.Archie is the one part of Sonic's history that actively rewards the autism you put into its lore. It's all connected, a huge fucking world full of characters with rich backgrounds and tons of stories. It's insanely deep. If you want to be actually satisfied by storytelling in Sonic, Archie is where you go, especially the Flynn era before the reboot.
>>144274106fans will keep it alive, sure, just as they'll keep SatAM and AoStH alive.but SEGA will never acknowledge any of it ever again. what you have now is all there will ever be.
