>Lee-Kirby Fantastic FourIs it really THAT good?
>>144307865It's alright‚ I think it truly is the perfect evolution of golden age eseque superhero comics but it really can just a huge drag to get through at times. You can only see one of them "permanently" leave to team so many times before it gets draining.
>>144307865Yes.
If you have to ask, wait five years.
If you're a fucking nerd, sure.
>>144307894It always amazes me how far Doom can go out from sheer pettiness.
>>144307865It has its moments, but for the most part, not really, no.
>>144307865for a 1960s comicbook? YES.
>>144308161>for a 1960s comicbook? YES.Meaning it's ass.
>>144307934You can get Dr Doom to do anything if you hint that Reed can't.
>>144307894I always love Kirby’s drawings, that view of them looking down is pretty cewl man
>>144307865Yes
It's better than most modern comic books to be sure.
>>144307865It was a game-changer at the time, one of the main books the 1960s superhero renaissance was built on, but if you're reading it today everything that was innovative about it at the time you probably won't even notice because it's all become the norm for how cape comics are written over the decades since. The writing style of comics has changed a lot over the years since the 60s, so you're either going to love or hate the style of the scripting, a lot of people find older comics read very dated and getting through more than one at a time to be a chore.>>144308479 is right that it's better than anything Marvel or DC have to offer now though.
>>14430850090% of Fantastic 4 content was reused Challengers of the Uknown stories and the other 10% wasn't really unique.
>>144307865It's Doc Savage in space, Doc Savage is way better though.
>>144308500>but if you're reading it today everything that was innovative about it at the time you probably won't even notice because it's all become the norm for how cape comics are written over the decades sinceLiterally the problem with making a John Carter movie.
>>144308500>a lot of people find older comics read very dated and getting through more than one at a time to be a chore.Especially for those who grew up with the later stuff and manga.
>>144308547Reed's too much of a geek to be like Doc Savage.
>>144308671>Literally the problem with making a John Carter movie.That movie was still fun though, and deserved to have done better, if only Disney had put some effort into marketing it properly and not just calling it "John Carter" because they were afraid of having the word "Mars" in the title.
>>144307865>Is it really THAT good?It might be good, but at this point I simply can't ready anything from before 80s. The style is just to archaic and clunky, with characters overexposing everything. People say that back in the day, you would have a sttory in one issue, that would take six nowdays. And you know what? GOOD. Give it some room to breath. I'm not saying "decempresit like it's Bendis bitch", but more room to tell a story is a good thing, rather than acting like it might be your last issue ever, and you need to put all of your ideas in it.
Fantastic Four from roughly issue 25, when Kirby took over a majority of the plotting, to about 95, when Kirby had one foot out the door and no longer gave a damn, were great comics. Viewed from today, they may not seem all that original, but that's only because people like John Byrne rehashed and rehashed everything that was done. At the time, FF and Spider-Man were different from anything else out there. FF and Thor were probably peak Kirby when he had control of the storyline.
>>144307865>capeshitIt's garbage by default.
>>144307865Sure
>>144307865No.
>>144308343Man, there has to be a universe where Aunt May was saved by Dr Doom and they avoided the OMD nightmare we currently live in
>>144308701>The style is just to archaicI wouldn't even call it archaic or outdated, there are thousands of novels from that time that are still fantastic nowadays, the truth is that Marvel and DC had awful dialogue and pacing through the vast majority of it's history,.
>>144307865Both Byrne and simonson are better. It’s some of kirby’s weakest art, IMO
>>144310967This.
>>144307865I don't know
>>144308216Nah, there's way worse Lee/Kirby comics of the era. Like Ant-Man or the Human Torch solo series. Fantastic Four is a masterpiece in comparison.
>>144307865No but it's important. So it's not out of place with probably 40-50% of Penguin Classics' library
>>144310967My, my, almost like if comic books were made for young children as a cheap and disposable form entertainment.
>>144312233So why call them great?
>>144307865The best capeshit money can buy.
>>144313317Which automatically makes it bottom feeding trash by the standard of any real storytelling.
>>144313317Nope.>>144313361Nope.
>>144307865No
>>144311073That's just bullshit.
>>144307865I have tried a few Kirby books and I just can't get into them. I get that his works are important and all but I just can't get into his stuff. The dialogue just feels so stilted and clunky.
>>144307865Short answer yes. Long answer If you can get into silver aged comic books it's the best stuff out there but most people can't get into that.
>>144316151We clearly disagree.
>>144317357I genuinely prefer ASM, Captain Marvel and Silver Age Superman to FF. IMO it’s incredibly overrated and this pretentious “y-y-you must not understand silver age comics” narrative just makes me resent it. And yes I’ve read every single issue at least once.
>>144317502>IMO it’s incredibly overratedAll Silver Age marvel is insanely overrated, it's possibly the most overrated franchise ever after Harry Potter
>>144317736Fanboys overrate everything. They're zealots.
>>144307894HIT IThttps://youtu.be/TLJg9DW3lS0?si=Log1fpOaIMCe2Nhq
>>144317736>All Silver Age marvel is insanely overratedNah I’d say Strange, ASM (even if I just named it as better than FF) and Thor are overrated but the rest is somewhat ignored. Avengers isn’t all that highly rated, justifiably so, but Captain Marvel is pretty underrated IMO.
>>144317382Kirby's art inked by Sinnott in FF is his peak.
>>144317964It's quite hard to not call it overrated, some people really push several of their comics such as X-men, Spider-Man, F4, Hulk etc as game changers when they were all simply copies of mainstream works that didn't introduced any concept nor made it popular nor better than other works. Again it's just like Harry Potter, a bunch of mediocre books with a lot of copied ideas from a few mainstrem works.
>>144318155True.
>>144317847Is this supposed to be funny?
>>144317502I prefer ASM too I just recommend all silver age Cape comics with the asterix that most people won't have the patience for silver age Cape comics
>>144318155It's really just that one anon saying Silver Age X-Men is good
>>144319313And they shouldn't.
>>144308528>Challengers of the Uknown storieswats thata pre CC pulp comic?
>>144317972And I completely disagree. Wood inking him Challs was better, easily the best inker he ever worked with, and his overall composition and art was better even with coletta later on. There are issue where the thing looks absolutely fucking terrible. Reed and Johnny’s faces look like they’re made of melting wax. His art in Thor is much better too. There is zero convincing me that FF isn’t some of his weakest work as a body of work. Are there standout moments and issues? Sure. But by and large I find it pretty weak compared to many of his other comics.
>>144319242it's supposed to be kino
>>144308701I agree but to me the exception was reading Denny O'Neil's Batman. I always knew his work was highly regarded but I put it off and the more I read pre 80s comics, the more I knew I didn't like them like reading Fantastic Four was torture and I never finished it, but when I read O'Neil's Batman work I found something ahead of its time, the art was allowed to breathe, the dialogue and narration was sparse and concise, everything flowed so well. I read things in order so I read a bunch of Frank Robbins stuff and oh boy, the difference is night and day, the worst part is that O'Neil skips some O'Neil issues and draws Robbins issues.I went and read his Question about two years or so and while it's clunky at times and the dialogue can read like a nerd trying to sound cool other times, it does have some genuinely great stuff like the vietnam vet issue or the racist issue which both made me laugh but also left a deep impression on me with that ending.
>>144320381it's such a problem in old comics, it's like the writers of yore, literally forgot it's a visual mediumand you don't need to tell, we can literally SEE and be SHOWN
>>144317847KINOone of my favorite scenes
>>144320406I read that it's because kids of the era who were the target audience would feel cheated if each issue wasn't as packed with as many words as possible. Apparently Stan even had a rule for a while that every panel had to have at least some dialogue or narration for this reason.
>>144320381Neal Adams was so good.
>>144307865Shit yeah, son. This single-handedly started the silver age of comics.
>>144320164>WoodThat's true.
