What went wrong?
>>144316923>ConvergenceBut Seriously, Earth 2 was messed up from the start.
They brought on the Identity Crisis editor, he asked for more big 3 instead of Golden Age characters and Robinson said "fuck this, I'm out" and let Tom Taylor destroy anything fun or unique about the setting before Dan Abnett had to clean up the whole mess while doing a passive aggressive take down at Taylor and the editor
>>144316923Most people say it's because Robinson left but I wasn't a fan even when he was briefly writing it.
>>144316923Tom Taylor is a destroyer of worlds.
>>144316923>book starts with the purpose of focusing on characters outside of the trinity or any related to them>new writer comes in and immediately brings in batman's dad and black superman
>>144317271Robinson brought in Thomas Wayne, but he was more of a side character.
>>144317358>>144317271Didn't Robinson bring him in just to set up Hourman initially?
>>144316923Gay Alan
Tom Taylor being a fucking faggot is what went wrong.
>>144317271It wasn't just that, the New Trinity was replaced by Red Cyclone Lois, Black Superman, and Thomas Wayne almost immediately.
>>144317404This. Let’s not let Robinson of the hook completely here. Sure Taylor is the pits, but Robinson ruined Alan and seeded his future destruction in the main continuity with this shit.
>>144317059I only recall bits and pieces of Society. Can you elaborate more on what went right with Robinson, wrong with Taylor and Abnett's response?
>>144317462Alan being gay was irrelevant because it wasn't Earth 2.It's not Robinson's fault that DC decided to make Earth 1 Alan gay when it made no fucking sense.
>>144317494>Alan being gay was irrelevantNo it wasn’t. And it’s entirely the reason they felt like it wasn’t a big deal to make Earth 1 Alan gay for his 80th anniversary. I will never let him escape blameless for that.
>>144317607>>144317462This. I and many others said it at the time it.
>Didio claims he will make his own Ultimate Marvel but with Golden Age DC>it's just a boring generic DC universe where some characters are a bit different but all characters die in the last 5 pages of the story without Ultimate edge nor Golden Age charactersAs always Didio pretending he will give Marvel fans what they want to buy his comics simply to write the same bland shit.
How would you all make a better Earth 2 monthly? >Hard mode no Bat Family, Super family or Amazons allowed.
>>144317705Go back in time to prevent Injustice from getting popular so he never gets popular enough to ruin multiple books in both DC and Marvel.
>>144317705Just make it DC original universe, the Golden Age one untouched by the Crisis, it's that simple.
>>144317179After reading Starman my impression of Robinson is that he's way too far up his own asshole and would 100% enjoy 2 men discussing their daddy issues for 20 pages until Shade drops in to be mysterious and annoying before going back to the 2 guys who belong in therapy.
Seeing Tom Taylor's name on the cover of anything is a sign you need to avoid it like the plague.
>>144317705>>Hard mode no Bat Family, Super family or Amazons allowed.This is just dumb though, revisionist in a way. The company is named after Batman, Superman was their first cape character. They were there for the founding of the JSA. Not including them is like making a universe in which absolutely everyone is blind or deaf. Its just an absurd peculiarity that becomes ridiculous to write around. The only way to make an Earth 2 monthly is to commit to a WW2 era universe which includes not “modernizing” it in any way.
>>144318606real lack of imagination on this fella over here, borderline retarded even.
>>144316923Not enough Val Zod wrecking bitches.Needed more PARG Lois Lane.
>>144317462You're thinking small time, the thing that sparked all this was Robinson wanting to set JSA in WWII like the previous Earth-2s, but his editor suggesting to go with a modernized JSA formed in the present day instead. Had Robinson gone with his original plan the characters would mostly be intact even if history would be different (Robinson said it would have the JSA actually affecting the outcome of WWII), Obsidian and Jade would also likely been around in the present day
>>144317705What >>144317773 saidBut if you want hard mode, tell Robinson to continue off where The Golden Age left off. You said no Bat family, Super family, or Amazons allowed, but you didn't say I couldn't resort to using Silver Age characters in general
>>144318697Not really what they said is pretty true. I find “what if Batman and Superman didn’t exist” pretty creatively bankrupt myself.
>>144316923In the fictonal story? Everythingas a book? Everything.
>>144316923Tom Taylor.
>>144317773I have no idea how DC managed to miss the point of why Earth 2 exist>Earth 1 is the main universe, the one where reboots and retcons will happen every 40-50 years>Earth 2 is the original universe, the one Superman, Batman and other will continue aging and things will always move foward.The new "Earth 2" is completely pointless, it's just boring fanfiction, an alternate universe that exist for no reason at all, just bring back the original DC earth, Power Girl does not make sense without the original earth 2
>>144322398>Earth 2 is the original universe, the one Superman, Batman and other will continue aging and things will always move foward.That’s not the point of earth 2 though. The point is merely that it’s the universe that existed before COIE. A bunch of losers like johns turned it into their age in real time fan fic.
>>144319185There’s nothing “small time” about blaming the guy who backdoored gay Alan into the company. Pun fully intended.
Friendly reminder that E2 Val-Zod was a horrible Superman who actively caused the deaths of Kal-El and hundreds of millions of people on Earth because he was being so sanctimonious about being a pacifist he refused to stop events only he had the power to.
>>144317607Hindsight’s 20/20.Robinson didn’t know they would do hat on main earth.At Marvel, Colossus was gay in the Ultimate Comics, but they never made the main line gay as well. Robinson didn’t know what DC would do later on.
>>144322626>Robinson didn’t know they would do hat on main earthHe actively pushed for it.
At least we got the best character out of it.Thank goodness he and Red Tornado are on the Prime Earth now.
>>144323089Val-Zod sucks. Calvin Ellis already existed.
>>144323198While like Calvin Ellis. He exists as a Mary Sue version of Supes, just to be seen as an alternate version. Val Zod is a protagonist with a character arc. He meets his Mentor, lover, enemies, and obstacles all along the way. Like a true hero’s journey.
Not having Val Zod bang Karen for an entire issue of just Kryptonian sex
>>144316923joshua williamson.
>>144323315>[Calvin Ellis] exists as a Mary Sue version of Supes>Val Zod is a protagonist with a character arc. Tom, go fucking kill yourself
I spoke with the artist VERY recently and asked explicitly about Earth 2 because I enjoyed it years ago.Nicola Scott is an interesting and funny woman, so I'll pass on what she told me. Keep in mind that she left at #25 (Worlds End started after #26).Firstly, Robinson left because editorial started making large demands that completely shifted the story (almost definitely the inclusion of trinity-esque characters). That said, this did NOT include the character of Fury (Wonder Woman's daughter). Robinson created that character to give Scott something like Wonder Woman to draw because he knew that was her career goal (many writers did this for her; if you look at series she worked on you'll notice WW frequently cameo'd at the start of her runs). Scott and Robinson are on very good terms (and always have been), and she spoke very highly of his plans (We didn't go into detail on this, so I can't say the specifics).People complain about Tom Taylor and his influence on the series, but that's not accurate in this case. At this point in his career, he had very little little influence and had only just been "promoted" from digital-first area of the company based on the success of Injustice. These were apparently considered entirely different portions of the company, and his past success there had essentially no sway. Taylor had been given a number of edicts from editorial regarding the new direction of the series (to the point where he was basically given plot points he was expected to build) that neither he, nor Scott, were keen on. Taylor was apparently extremely stressed by this and did NOT want to follow these plot developments. Scott told him to just pick what portions of these edicts interested him most and follow those, downplaying the more problematic parts for later. Primarily for his own mental health, but partially because they almost expected another editorial shift to cause them to change the series direction again.
>>144323609Continuing on since I hit the word limit.This next bit is conjecture on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is PART of why World's End felt utterly disconnected from the Earth 2 series. Basic plot points like how Grundy had inexplicably returned from the fucking moon and it's never commented on. However, it's clear the writer of World's End hadn't actually read Earth 2 before coming on as writer. There were important plot points he just seemed unaware of, such as Green Lantern of Earth 2 being unable to be powered in space, which he just had occur for extended periods. Unlike Grundy this seems unlike a change in powerset that would have been expected to be set up by prior writers.Earth 2 had always had poor editorial oversight. Even when the sequel series, Earth 2 Societies, was written by Dan Abnett basic things were ignored, such as GL referencing 0A. Something that there was no reason to believe existed in this universe, let alone that GL would know about it (as a terrestrially locked hero with the powers of earth/planetary elementals).
>>144323706>>144323609Given what Taylor has done since I don’t believe for a second he cared at all. Scott’s a QT 3.14 though
>>144322767Where's your proof of that claim?
It should have been a JSA reboot, but for some reason they wanted to do anything but that.
>>144324837They were probably hoping that it would pick up the same way that Marvel's original ultimate Universe did. Just like they did with earth 1.
>>144323609I’m surprised she created and designed Val Zod.
>>144324188The fanfic in his head
