After the recent Kingdom Come thread I was wondering, did any anons read or enjoy Jim Kreuger and Alex Ross' equivalent the Earth X Trilogy? If so what was your favorite part? Earth is definitely the best in terms of art and that grim Kingdom Come mood but Universe is fun seeing all of these disparate parts of the MU come together and Paradise is a great end cap to the classic era of Marvel. What's your favorite end-of-story type comic?
I love Earth X. I think about it all the time. So many indelible, dramatic, heroic sacrifices.
>>144330418I know a lot of moments/ideas are disliked, all of the bestial mutations and characters being related, Thanos' mom being a Skrull, Spidey preferring Gwen over MJ, Mephisto creating the multiverse and different dimensions being different Earth's, but even that stuff I can look past and still the story. Personally the weirder retcons were really enjoyable BECAUSE the whole book draws on the lore and history of classic Marvel and finds ways to bring these different pieces from so many different creators together into this huge, universe spanning tapestry. All of that and the fact that it continues the old Marvel tradition of the characters aging in real time and it ending how it began, with Reed Richards at the center ,him going on a space bound journey, and it being a piece of a larger story make it my favorite comic storyline ever.
I've read it and it's fucking incredible. BUT it's not a comic for everyone, as it is very continuity heavy and delves deep into the Marvel mythology.It''s also way darker than Kingdom Come.My favorite part is, of course, Galactus vs Celestials, but there's many other great moments in the whole trilogy, like Cap's real origin, Mephisto, and Cap's final battle ("MINE EYES HAVE SEEN THE GLORY!"). Oh, and this one. Life goes on.
Fuck yeah! FUCKIN' FUCK YEAH!
>>144330496Hehehe that was such a good line and a great way to end Tony's story. After years of shielding himself behind a suit of armor he puts his life on the line knowing he won't survive but the rest of (in)humanity will be safe.>>144330553>BUT it's not a comic for everyone, as it is very continuity heavy and delves deep into the Marvel mythology.It''s also way darker than Kingdom Come.That's exactly why I like it so much. KC had references to all of DC's history until that point but the Trilogy really PULLS from that rich history and uses it to create something new.>>144330571This anon gets it. The only thing that would've made that battle better was if Kirby himself could've drawn it.
And the whole Elders of The Universe deal, where Death, the Death entity itself, the one Thanos loves, was actually trying to rebuild the previous universe, before the Big Bang and before Galactus and that's why the Marvel characters never really die and always come back, as their souls are trapped within the Realm of The Dead.Until Thanos kills Death! FUCK YOU, YOU WHORE!This comic is a neckbeard Marvelfag wet dream.
>>144330418I like it.
But there's one thing that remains unexplained.If the Asgardians actually are super evolved aliens so beyond the humanity that they are beyond the concept of a real identity and form and were manipulated by Odin (actually Donnerson, a man fused with two Asgardians, that in turn was manipulated by Mephisto), what are THE OTHER GODS?Is every godhead a "Donnerson", some human being manipulated by Mephisto into a godhead manipulating aliens? Is every pantheon made of super evolved aliens? And why they all came to earth? And the alien gods? What are the alien gods?This is the kind of comic that makes me want to discuss it.
>>144330702>This comic is a neckbeard Marvelfag wet dream. That's exactly what it is and I love it for it. I'm more of a DC guy, Superman being my favorite comic book character, but nothing they have reaches the nerdy, self-indulgent, and irreverent level of this story. One of my (OP) favorite moments was the final monologue/exchange between Mar-Vell and Reed. A universe built on conflict, Good vs Evil, Homo Sapien vs Homo Superior, Kree vs Skrull, ends with the conflict finally ending. With no death there's no more need for war, no need to kill, and for those who wish to pass on there's a glorious paradise where all come together in harmony.
>>144330813
And then there's Mephisto. He is the Devil. But actually he's not, as the Devil doesn't exist because real demons don't exist. Mephisto is a super evolved being on par with the Asgardians, but born on earth among caveman, and he became the Devil because someone, a time traveller, (Prince Wayfinder, iirc) believed he was the Devil and banished him and Deviants to another dimension, that became Hell.And so he believes that he is the Devil, the biblical Devil, and so he believes in a final judgment where he will face God and so he wants to escape this fate.That's why he manipulates other beings into time travelling, as every time the story is changed a new timeline is created and Mephisto can escape to this new timeline.And that's why Marvel comics never really changes and no one ever ages. But also why everything becames darker and darker.The Devil is the father of the retcons!
>>144330823>>144330790I wondered that myself. Where are the gods of Olympus or Heliopolis during the whole story? If they are like the Aesir has belief in them just died out so much that that they returned to the shapeless forms they arrived in? Uatu does refer to them as "those who believed themselves God's" so I think they're the same race as the Norse God's. But what about stuff like Gaia and Cthon and Set? Did the Primal Gods have any hand in bringing the aliens to planet Earth, maybe to mess with the Celestials plans?
With JP Leon every page gave me chills. Every page was a perfect painting.
>>144330903
>>144330924>>144330880I do
>>144330903It seems that Chthon was actually another being manipulated by Mephisto like Dracula, D'Spayre and other supernatural beings and demons.Oh, and i'ts nice to remember that this origin for Mephisto and the gods as some kind of energy is a deep cut and actually was adaptated from Thor Annual 10.Could Donnerson be the Demiurge? Could the Demiurge be someone besides Donnerson also manipulated by Mephisto?
>>144330938>>144330880Fuck I posted it too early. I don't remember if it was said that Wayfinder specifically was the one responsible for Mephisto's transformation but I can definitely see that. AND YEAH the idea of Mephisto being the one responsible for why these stories never end and for reality always changing into a confusing mess was such a cool plot point and really does fit him as Marvel's own (and comics most famous) version of the Devil. Some new part of, say, Wolverine's origin you don't like? Blame Mephisto!>>144330702This was also one of those retcons I really liked. There didn't need to be an explanation for Death's revolving door but it's awesome that they were able to come up with one that works coupled with Marv's cosmic consciousness preventing from coming back to life and seeing the whole picture is a great explanation as to why he STAYS dead. I'm so glad someone enjoyed it as much as I did. And I'm mostly a DC guy when it comes to more "modern" comics (90's-2010's) and I'm a zoomer so I wasn't around to read the stories they pull from but the history of classic Marvel is like nothing else. It's such a rich, lived-in world that you can get lost but in a fun way. I recently bought the Essential Deluxe Handbooks and Essential Update '89 so I've been reading those and using them as a reference guide to the trilogy which has been really fun.>>144331007Ohhhhh ok I totally forgot about Cthon being one of Mephisto's manipulated beings. I was going to say that weren't the primordial gods around before Mephisto but I totally forgot about the time machine. Donnersin being the demiurge wasn't something I thought of but that is an interesting idea though thinking about the Cthon thing I think he was just another entity manipulated by Ole Scratch.
>>144330909>>144331092Oh yeah it's a perfect fit for the grim, climactic tone of Earth X. The heavy shadows and light linework look "simple" but that works really well and is really unique with how moody it is. It's like Mike Mignola's stuff in that way. As much as I like Ross I feel like he wouldn't have fit the tone they were going for thematically. And Dougie's art while looking completely different and a lot more comic book-y still fits perfectly because Universe/Paradise are when they really get into the history and minutiae of Marvel and his art reminds me a lot of those classic Marvel artists while still looking suitably modern. Bill Rienhold inking both of them probably helped too.
>>144331368I have all of the history lessons saved onto my phone to read when lever I get bored
Hey, this one was good for some horror comic. Heroes face an Wendigo army. And the Wendigo army actually is Jamie Madrox, the Multiple Man, who committed CANNIBALISM and ATE ONE OF HIS OWN BODIES!Absolutely disgusting and creative.Oh, and the Wendigo actually is some recessive mutation sprung from humanity's past like Wolverine's, Sasquatch and Sabertooth. Actually, Wolverine wasn't mutated...
>>144330418I enjoyed the sketchbook that came with Wizard magazine.The book itself was ugly as sin with a jabroni on art
>>144331392Whenever I tell new people about the story, even if they don't know much, I always bring up that it connects the Celestials to Galactus to Uatu to Moon Boy to Wolverine as an example of how crazy it gets. The explanation of Chuck seeking Wolverine out because he wasn't "human" but he sure as well wasn't a mutant was cool and it kinda fits with that idea (was it Claremont's?) of Wolverine being a mutated wolverine. Something bestial that wasn't a modern day human.
You know considering the ending of Earth X itself with mar-vell going to find some source that was mentioned, implied to be 616, is there a possibility of this and Marvel:The End adding to something the end of deconstructing all of the current universe itself with the ever changing writers, never ending story, etc?I would like to see stuff go meta while not going too far out.
>>144331405What did you not like about about John Paul Leon's art?
>>144331482It wasn't Alex Ross, the preview book was all Ross art, so when you open the book and see a jabroni it's deflating.
>>144331464I don't think Mar-Vell went to 616. If he went after a source, to the great beyond and after the real paradise, he came to our world, the real world. The world where Joe Quesada was the devil.
>>144331464That's an interesting interpretation of the ending of the ending I didn't even think about. I figured that Marv was coming to OUR world to find the origin of everything with us being that source reality. That why the story and characters still aged in real time because, like Aaron talked about, the Earth's closest to that prime source time moved as it should. What do you mean with the Marvel: The End comment and the deconstruction of the current universe? Like, the two stories work in tandem for that purpose? And yeah this is definitely a story that gets meta but it's still contained in the story as opposed to some of Grant Morrison's stuff which I do love
>>144331531Yeah, I definitely get that. Why do you think he was a jabroni? Was it just because it wasn't what you were expecting?>>144331554I thought the same exact thing. A real Journey Into Mystery, eh?
>>144330418I liked it for the most part, I wasn't a fan of the Spider-Man stuff, it just felt like the same kind of BS "Saint Gwen" narrative that the BND brain trust have kept trying to push for the last 15 years. The stuff involving Prince Wayfinder, Mephisto, Galactus, Mar-Vell as Captain Universe and The Celestials was far more interesting. The Heralds were also pretty great. It's not often I get to see Hyperion and Spider-Girl in the same comic book.
For those who liked the Earth X ending and specially Paradise X, it reads like Spiritism (Kardecism) and there are many spiritism books that may scratch the itch that Earth X left.I'm not telling you guys to believe in spiritism, but it's an interesting read that features both the alien spiritual universal journey, reincarnation and scenes like that where Cap in the afterlife meet his parents and discovers he had a brother who died before he was born.
>>144331531JP Leon art was way better than Ross and made every single page memorable in some way.I can't picture Ross doing pages like this one. Or battles like the Galactus vs Celestials battle. Like the other anon said, only Kirby himself could have been better in that fight.
>>144331753The Spidey stuff was the one thing I wasn't a fan of. Gwen didn't even like Spider-Man while MJ did, she was the one who loved Peter as a whole so him still being hung up on Gwen didn't make sense imo.>>144331784Huh, interesting! As someone with an interest in the occult I'll definitely have to look into that. Thanks anon!!>>144331808>made every single page memorable in some wayThat's what's so cool about it! No matter what part of the story you're at there's a striking visual. I'm OP and I was the one who made the Kirby comment so I'm glad seeing somebody agree. Ross' art, as pretty and "grand" as it can be would've been too stilted both in the art itself and the composition. The way JPL lays his panels out is extraordinary.
>>144331463Yeah. Wolverine was a direct descendant from Moon Boy, from the tribe of the Small-Folk (Moon Tribe)Sabretooth was a descendant of the rival tribe, the Killer-Folk (Bear Clan), and that's why they hate each other guts.Many mutations like Sabretooth's regresses the mutated individual to their primal state, and those mutations are usually triggered by external sources or some kind of trauma, like eating human flesh in the case of the Wendigo and that mysterious formula that Hank McCoy ingested for the Beast.But this wasn't the case for Wolverine, as he wasn't a mutant but actually part of a human species that survived in the wild and were never experimented by the Celestials, as was the Sasquatch tribe seen in the late 90's Alpha Flight relaunch.Years later Jeph Loeb took this story and shat all over it with Romulus.
>>144331989Oh yeah I forgot about the Sabretooth bit! That's such a good explanation for their rivalry. I like that that also ties into Man-Wolf with his connection to the moon.>>144332018>That's filenameHehehe
And even in the afterlife Frank must Frank.
As for Donnerson/Odin ending, the Asgardians really came back to him os was he just delirious?
Beautiful spread.
>>144332161Good ole Castellini (why did they change his name?). When the skull finally washes away as him and his family finally get the peace he always wanted was such a touching moment.>>144332203I think they came back to him. He admitted what he did wrong and they weren't as badly manipulated as Loki and Thor were.>>144332215Besides this spread I really wish we could have seen some more of the classic Marvel monsters but what we did get with Fin Fang Foom was nice. If only they found a way to sneak Godzilla in there like they did Rom. Maybe he could've bed Sonfire's mount or something.
>>144330418Earth was good. The others devolvwd into mar-vell wank
>>144332319They sneak Rom and Conan, iirc. Godzilla was there with the Red Ronin (used to create the IRON MANOR) and was mentioned by name in the companion, I believe. The Shogun Warriors were there as the Seven Silver Samurais>Maybe he could've bed Sonfire's mount or something.This reminds me that Lockheed was supposed to be King Britain steed, but it didn't work and they changed it to the Dragon Man.
>>144333020>Rom, Conan, Shogun Warriors, Micronauts, Godzilla by proxy of Red RoninGod it really is such a fucking nerdy comic. I didn't even make the Shogun Warriors connection that's cool! I didn't know about the Lockheed thing. How come they weren't able to do it?
And there's Marvels X, a cute little prequel that shows how this universe can be interesting for stories smaller in scope.
As I said, Godzilla mentioned by name in the Trilogy Companion as the first appearance of the Red Ronin.I'm surprised with how good is my memory.
>>144333074There's even a small nod to 2099, as the connection between Uatu (as Konshu) and the Moon Knight came from one of the last 2099 stories.And I may be nerdier than Jim Krueger for recognizing it and remembering it to this day.
>>144330418Earth X was based on an article from Wizard Magazine where they got Alex Ross to do "Kingdom Come" versions of Marvel characters.Zoomers will never understand how big Alex Ross was in the 1990s.
Oh yeah, for the anons who did read it what did you guys think of the ending? Would you have preferred the original idea where Cap kills Marv-Ell before realizing what his plan was and reluctantly taking the throne of Paradise or the one they went with? Even though the original ending would have fit the stories theming and tone better, Cap realizing that a democracy isn't always the best option, I much prefer the ending we did get. >One of my (OP) favorite moments was the final monologue/exchange between Mar-Vell and Reed. A universe built on conflict, Good vs Evil, Homo Sapien vs Homo Superior, Kree vs Skrull, ends with the conflict finally ending. With no death there's no more need for war, no need to kill, and for those who wish to pass on there's a glorious paradise where all come together in harmony.Along with Reed becoming the new Eternity (the Marvel universe revolves around Richards as the FF were the first) with him and Johnny going to find Franklin so they can bring their family together as there's no more need for a Galactus gets to me.
Here's another deep cut: Reed Richards space suit design came from 2001: A Space Odyssey. Why? Because Kirby worked on the 2001 comic!See? A FANTASTIC trip begins.
>>144333247And don't worry Aaron, I think that the Marvel Universe is a wonderful story unmatched by any other.>>144333126Man I wish the series was more successful so we could've gotten the vignettes on different pieces of this universe they had planned. Marvel's X was nice though I liked it. Trucker Johnny was cool.>>144333146Ahhh ok so they did! I have the companion so one of these days I should read the issues they reference as I go a long. I really hope somebody makes an unofficial annotation book eventually.>>144333181Oh what's the connection?>>144333241Yeah while I didn't see it myself I totally get why he was such a superstar artist at the time. He painted these characters like nobody else and made them really, genuinely look like they could pop off the page into the real world. Marvels is another favorite comic of mine and Ross' art is a big part of it. I got this at a local comic shop for, like, 30 bucks.>>144333265I noticed that too!!! I felt very accomplished with myself when I did. It's really easy to tell why Kirby liked 2001 so much when you look at his original stuff.
>>144330418I thought it was dull. Marvel lore is just not interesting. JPL was pretty good on it, though.
Doesn't it say a lot that I've never heard of this in my life but everyone and their mum has heard of Kingdom Come
