>ERB said Opar was an Atlantean Colony>Tarzan cartoon adapts Opar>Makes La, who was the Queen of Opar in the books, have the same dark skin and white hair as the Disney Atlanteans
>>144487804I'm not used to seeing her wear so much clothes.
>>144487804Tarzan, Atlantis and Gargoyles all existing in the same continuity is pretty funny
>>144487842Look, you can't have La dressed like ERB described her in a Disney thingSame with Dejah in the John Carter movie
>>144487804What does Epic Rap Battle have to do with a random Disney show?
>>144488433TARZAN VS JOHN CARTER OF MAAAAARSBEGIN
>>144487804This woman’s design and personality ruined me for life
>>144488881source?
>>144487880Frazetts once painted her and Tarzan together naked with Tarzan having a boner, but was forced to censor it
>>144489145He refused to sell it if he didn't censor it
>>144488433Assuming you aren't trolling. It's Edgar Rice Burroughs, the author so influential he's not the American Tolkien, Tolkien is the British Burroughs. He's the guy who invented or codified half the genres in scifi or fantasy you've heard of and the rest were usually invented by being obsessed with him. He's indirectly responsible for us walking on the Moon because basically literally everyone who ever mattered in astrophysics and engineering who put us there got into the job because they grew up obsessed with A Princess of Mars.Carl Sagan had a map of Burrough's Mars outside of his office until he fucking died and basically everyone who came after him in literature in the scifi and fiction genres was in someway influenced by him. Most versions of Orcs for examples actually owe a lot more to Burroughs Green Martians than arguably anyone else and if you go through a list of authors who claim to have been inspired by him it's just a whose who list of classic and iconic scifi writers essentially.
>>144489275Wait, I thought Robert E Howard was considered "the American Tolkien"? Didn't this guy only write two books?
>>144489275i would be a pendant and Say Lord Dunsany is probably more influential than Burroughs in at least the origin of idea and concept, hell burroughs wasn't even the first author to have a guy gets transported to Mars which would be Lieut. Gullivar Jones: His Vacation by Edwin Lester Arnold in 1905(the title should tell you why this book is pretty much completely forgotten) by Burroughs very much popularised many of these ideas
>>144489665Howard came after and he would be the American Tolkien, yeah, and Tolkien actually rather liked what little Conan he read [to the point that there's a compelling argument to be made about Boromir and Aragorn's plotline having shades of Howard's themes and narratives, that part of the plot is VERY Conan] but Burroughs predates Tolkien and was a very, very, very prolific author. he wrote like a dozen Tarzan novels [Tolkien liked the early ones well enough but grew bored of them over time and found them repetitive a very common complaint as Burroughs was mainly feeding his family with the later ones] and a Princess of Mars and its many sequels are one of the greatest examples of worldbuilding in literature. He also wrote the Hollow Earth novels and the Pellucidar novels as well which likely all take place in the same world, more or less. He was very, very prolific and was a big influence on Howard and Lovecraft as well to the point that A Princess of Mars is *kind of* canon to the two's shared universe.>>144489729Dusany's huge no doubt and his influence is definitely comparable but the fact that like two major genres and countless subgenres legitimately do trace back to Burroughs as the bottleneck point on top of the whole "Man is unironically responsible for space travel via his influence" thing means I have to rank him higher.Plus the dude is literally the reason Superman exists on top of that. Superman's powers and them existing on earth was originally modeled after the increased strength and speed that John Carter possessed on Mars due to its lower gravity and a lot of his mannerisms and ideals early on derive directly from how John Carter was an honorable man who always found something admirable or respectable about someone no matter how foreign they were or how strange their culture was to him.It really cannot be said how big of an impact Burroughs had. Dusany was big, bigger than most people realize, but Burroughs is Atlas holding up the sky.
>>144487878How does Gargoyles tie in?
just came here to say the Leopard men she ruled over were hot.
>>144489729>Lord DunsanyI only know that he got a secret gypsy family in the Shadow Hearts universe
>>144489785You sure know a lot about random American authors.
>>144489821If we had gotten an actual Atlantis show and not a movie sequel made out of half finished episodes, there would've been an episode where Demona shows up
>>144489842I'm a man who lives with a constant quiet seething going on in the back of my mind about how the world war paper shortages and Academic clusterfuckery destroyed american literature and I'm like 80% sure it's indirectly like 50%+ responsible for a shitload of current problems in at least current media today and issues with literacy and kids not being interested in reading.You put A Princess of Mars or Conan or any of that good time tested pulp fiction in the hands of a 4th grader I guarantee that lil nigga is gonna fucking love to read in very short order and a lot of those stories are way more socially and historically influential than any shit like Steinbeck or the like. Instead we have kids in American Lit classes reading books by fuckers who aren't even American about how much it sucks being poor like these kids don't already know that.
>>144489785Tolkien reading Howard was likely a lie and self hype from L. Sprague de Camp, because the only Conan story found in Tolkien's possessions after he died was the very book De Camp gave him and it was an anthology with only one Conan story
I’m a better world this would have been a 2D film done by the same crew of Tarzan
>>144489976Considering Tolkien said he hated just about every other story in the collection including IIRC some of Sprague's work I actually really doubt that.
>>144489992What sucks is this was a really good movie and mostly faithful aside from fucking about with the White Martian plotline but Disney intentionally strangled it once they learned the Lucasfilm deal would go through.
>>144490092I wonder how they would’ve dealt with the First Born
>>144489976the full quote i can find seems like he thought the Howard story was okay but probably didn't bother to read more of REH work but there is clearly some editorialising going on by either Camp or Lin Carter.>“Tolkien said he found the anthology interesting but did not much like the stories in it ... We sat in the garage for a couple of hours, smoking pipes, drinking beer, and talking about a variety of things. Practically anything in English literature, from Beowulf down, Tolkien had read and could talk intelligently about. He indicated that he ‘rather liked’ Howard’s Conan stories.”>“During our conversation, I said something casual to Tolkien about my involvement with Howard’s Conan stories, and he said he “rather liked them”. That was all: we went on to other subjects. I know he had read Swords and Sorcery because I had sent him a copy. I don’t know if he had read any other Conan besides “Shadows in the Moonlight”, but I rather doubt it.”>-Literary Swordsmen and Sorcerers (1976)
>>144490149Camp is fucking infamous for sucking at follow ups and not asking for details when he really should though, the man bordered on being a real life version of one of those gag characters who keeps "almost" making history or bumping into famous people/discoveries without realizing it at times. We're not sure if it's intentional or if he was just too much of an autist to remember to either follow up or record the follow up to anything interesting he tended to discuss. "Sprague has just not mentioned more deeplore than most people have written" was a meme at one point for a reason.
>>144490141I think that would be really, really easy to unironically make everyone happy with the secret masters and origin of all civilization being the queen of the Black Martians particularly since they also basically hand deliver multiple cool honorable dudes among the black martians to overthrow Issus like Ptang or Xodar in the original canon. Purists would be happy because mostly text accurate, right wing is happy because big strapping hero guys, far right would be happy because haha evil black people, left wing is happy because muh minorities with power and agency, far left is maybe happy because Yass Kween slay and the white man is a slave for awhile.So naturally Disney would have fucked it up completely despite being handed a free win.
>>144490092I liked it but I can see why people didn't, it was kind of slow at times and went a bit too long in setting up the end twist. But the theater was packed and people seemed to like it
>>144489947Barsoom is too nudist for kids
>>144490287only if your a puritan
>>144490271Funnily enough the reason for that slower, longer set up was because of the mangling they did to the White Martian/Thern plot to have a big dramatic high tech enemy for some fucking reason rather than John Carter fighting to repair the Atmosphere Plant and suffocating. The time frame is larger, sure, but it would have been really fucking easy to tie it into the Zodanga plot rather than after by having the reason Helium wants to avoid a war be that they're afraid of damaging it in the crossfire and then having Zodanga just not give a shit/do it by accident. It even uses the Ninth Ray to generate matter which was the main thing it seemed to do in the film aside from randomly allow for astral projection/teleportation
>>144490262To be honest, I was thinking more on how the Terns in the movie are apparently not even from Barsoom, if they would keep the part where the First Born constantly raid them and take everything
>>144490384Therns worship Issus too and the First Born also have teleporters. Their world harvesting is to present offerings to Issus. Easy enough.
>>144490412Alright, now tell me thisWjo could play Solan if they had gotten to do a trilogy?
>>144490521Alright look I'm not a big "actor" guy, outside of a few standouts they're all replaceable and I don't know their names, so I can only go off of the handful I actually give a shit to remember the names of. But anyway so I know how this sounds but "tiny ancient man who can inexplicably kick ungodly amounts of ass" who you NEED to have look like a different phenotype because of the world building really does make me immediately think of modern Jackie Chan and unironically seeing him play a bad guy would I think be really cool. Solan's whole thing is that he's impossibly agile and looks like he's relatively old and scrawny but was able to basically go the distance with Carter just busting out sick fighting skills out of nowhere so when I think "crazy agile and wicked skilled fighter" and "also old now and doesn't look like a tough guy anymore" I think of Jackie.
>>144487804The sad part is her power is to create and control anthro leopards, but she has no anthro leopard form. what a waste. Just put Sabor in a bra and a white wig, for crying out loud.
>>144490287Sola was looking GOOD in the movie...but I wasn't looking at her face...
>>144489821What >>144489851 saidWeisman has said that the Praying Gargoyle statue that Demona used in Hunter's Moon was something she tried to get back during the time of Atlantis the Lost Empire and would have been the basis for a mini crossover
>>144489824YOU JUST KNOW
>>144491767Has anyone ever made a fan design?
>>144492669There's quite a bit on the Booru
>>144487804Damned Velaryons!
>>144487804Sex
It's neat to see just how much stuff from the books they used in the showOne episode even has some Mangani language
>>144487842>>144487880Is she completely naked in the books, or just scantily clad?I love all of the casual nudity in Edgar Rice Burroghs' books.
>>144492708Thanks. I will go check it out.
>>144491767>but she has no anthro leopard formOh noooo, she's not a disgusting furry, what a shame
>>144489947>You put A Princess of Mars or Conan or any of that good time tested pulp fiction in the hands of a 4th grader I guarantee that lil nigga is gonna fucking love to read in very short orderCan confirm as a 4th grader that was exposed to lovecraft, howard, dunsany, burroughs, etc
>>144493544It's been a while but I think she was naked? Tarzan was supposed to be swinging around in mostly just vine ropes, his knife, and sometimes a bow. Pretty much all of the wild characters in his books were naked all the time. The Barsoom stuff was entirely nude as well.
>>144493544
>>144496529Love this style of art.
>>144487804This bitch is probably why I have a thing for evil sorceresses from fantasy stories. And dark skinned chicks.
>>144499306>probably why I have a thing for evil sorceresses from fantasy storiesDamn anon, I'm sorry to hear you fell into the trap of being into hot chicks.
>>144489947Many such cases anon, shame the kids that did enjoy those things are at /lit/ right now, squandering your place (I'm only halfkey kidding btw)
>>144487804ERB?
>>144499595Edgar Rice Burroughs. The author of the Tarzan books.
>>144499595Edgar Rice Burroughs, he's directly responsible for the Moon Landings, our understanding of ape physiology and psychology, the existence of Superman, like 5 genres of fiction, and shares credit with Tolkien for the existence of Orcs among other things.
>>144489665Burroughs wrote twenty-four Tarzan books, nine Mars, six Pellucidar books, four Venus books, three Land That Time Forgot books, and a bunch of short stories and novelettes using those various properties. Plus a bunch of stuff from other genres like Westerns.
>>144499931And? Tolkien only ever published 4 books. You're talking about him like he's the American Stephen King.
>>144499696>>144499927I need to read more
>>144500111What are talking about? I'm just pointing out that he wrote a lot more than two books.
>>144500111Comparing Stephen King to Burroughs is a massive insult to Burroughs, King is, without any ill intent, an insect compared to Burroughs in terms of cultural relevance. He struggles to ape Lovecraft while Lovecraft owes almost everything that he didn't get from Dusany to Burroughs. Like it really is hard to explain other than that not only would every bit of fiction you've ever experienced after a certain point wouldn't exist without Burroughs in anything resembling its current form, your fucking world would be different because of how deep of an influence he had on society moving forward.
>>144487804They're just ancient Proto-Meds (Egyptians, Minoans, etc). People overstate the "dark". The white hair's probably an Elric/Melnibonean reference, the same way Targs work in ASOIAF.>ywn have a white-haired Belluci sorceress gfWhy even live?
Personally, I liked to see Jane using the powers and outfit of La (both when she was possessed and when she wasn't possessed). It's a pity she didn't keep them after La's defeat. It would have made Tarzan's life a little too easy, but it would be cool.
>>144500330>Lovecraft owes almost everything that he didn't get from Dusany to Burroughsdon't forget edgar allan poe in that combination he was major inspirairation for Lovecraft writing.
>>144489992Directed by the guys that did Treasure Planet and helmed by Kaztenberg's more edgy envelope-pushing. As an aside, I've seen a few pics of Kida that seem extremely Dejah-ish, likely before the push for a more ethnic princess.
>>144500903>the one on the right*pop* nice
>>144489785>and Tolkien actually rather liked what little Conan he readI wonder if Howard would have liked Tolkien if he lived. He died right before the Hobbit was published.
she should have been a cat
Queen La's perfect goddess feet.
>>144499927Interesting
>>144500111>American Stephen King.I mean, King IS American.
>>144503720*British
>>144495287post em
>>144487878member when shared continuities were cool and unique?
>>144505006they still are
>>144505006>wereThey still are. The problem is that nowadays, most of the time it's between works nobody cares about.
id fuckin kill for a proper animated adaptation of the princess of mars series
>>144499506Nah you just don't get it. Edgar Rice Burroughs only wrote La into the Tarzan books to show the world that Lord Greystoke is a better man than the rest of us.Because if I was Tarzan and some evil sorceress with platinum blonde hair, aqua blue eyes and ember colored skin walked up to me in an ancient stripper outfit, told me she may be a descendant of either Atlantis or Barsoom and said she would make me king of the world with her as my queen... I would have dropped Jane's ass faster than Atlantis sank.
>One episode has Clayton's sister come for revenge against Tarzan>Is Lady Waltham instead of Lady GraystokeMissed opportunity, really
>>144505748was there any john carter stuff in the tarzan series?
>>144507091I have that episode on VHS.
>>144501859I still prefer Jane's
>>144508309No, unless you count John's nephew going to the jungle asking about Tarzan to get inspiration for his stories
>>144489275>He's indirectly responsible for us walking on the Moon because basically literally everyone who ever mattered in astrophysics and engineering who put us there got into the job because they grew up obsessed with A Princess of Mars.Lori Garver, the second in command at NASA during the Obama administration, talks about this in Escaping Gravity. The Chinese studied American astronauts, engineers, etc. and found they had all grown up reading Burroughs and similar authors sci-fi growing up, so China started sponsoring its own homegrown sci-fi literature genre to try to get boys interested in science. NASA itself also made sporadic efforts to tie itself to the sci-fi scene for the same reason, though to mixed results since they were never consistent about it.
>>144508598Precious posh peds
>>144508598Nice legs
Is the show worth watching? I barely remember it.
>>144511697Yes, It does
>>144487804>>144499306She mogged Jane so hard goddamn.
>>144511881Absolutely.
>>144487804So what are the odds of there ever being another Tarzan animated series? Or a John Carter one? I'm not talking Disney specifically but something based on the characters and worlds. There's a lot of material to work with in those books. Is the interest just not there or is it more of the Edgar Rice Burroughs estate keeping a tight hold on the characters?
>>144512867A lot of the "pulp" writers have been intentionally buried by academia who cemented the idea of only pseudo-realist and specific avant-garde fiction of its day mattering while actively attacking "genre" fiction's legitimacy back in the day after the paper shortages during the two wars and interwar period and the shift in things allowed them to craft a very specific narrative that later became entirely enshrined in academia.It crippled awareness moving into the cold war where they also then had to compete with other newer media for young people's attention.Burrough's estate is pretty defensive but it wouldn't be too hard the issue is it'd mean actually having to adhere to their restrictions which would largely involve, to be blunt, not mangling it with wokeshit.
>>144512867Primal is probably the closest thing you'll get to a pure pulp cartoon.
>>144511881>>144512809Did the two ever fight? Please tell me there was at least one episode where they wrestled.
>>144512965>Pretty defensiveGiven what American Mythology publishes, they really aren't. I think Barsoom is fully public domain, even.
>>144513104
>>144513104There's an episode where the leopardmen rebel against La, steal her staff and make Jane their new queen so she can free them from being furries. The staff gives Jane a copy of La's outfit too.
>>144513019Thought that may be the case. Only ever really got around to watching the first season. Didn't really scratch the same itch as Tarzan and John Carter ever did. Guess I'll be waiting a lot longer then.
>>144513268You might like the first season of the 70s/80s Flash Gordon cartoon.
Need a real life tarzan movie remake with Queen la as the villain
>>144511881The moment she walked on screen she had me all kinds of fucked up as a kid.
>>144515381Same.
>>144508598Okay, but what about having Jane and La's feet? Together?
The cartoon worth rewatcing?I remember it being really good way back when
>>144489947Man, hearing about the books and stories some anons here read when they were younger makes me wish I could have read them too when I was still in school.Probably would be more fond of reading than I currently am.
>>144519389The stupid Round Award does more to kill childrens' interest in reading than any video games or social media ever could.
>>144518697It is alright.
>>144487804I wonder how how the worlds of Tarzan and Atlantis would've meshed together? Because considering how the second Atalantis movie was suppossed to be the start of an animated show, the technoligical bounds made would've made things a lot more different. Not discounting the magic of Tarzan's world as well.
>>144519389It's rough out there. At an earl age I found some books I liked which set me up to be able to enjoy reading later in life. Other people, hell almost everyone I know, only ever saw it as an assignment or punishment. It's a darn shame.
>>144515381I have my doubts that would happen. Or if it did it wouldn't be until a sequel or something.
>>144521122Both settings are extremely pulpy, so they would mesh perfectly in terms of tone. The tech thing is no big deal; the original Tarzan books existed in a shared universe where people were drilling to the center of the Earth, taking rocket ships to Venus, and astral projecting to Mars, and all of this during the World War I era. Nothing in Disney's Atlantis would be out of place.
>>144520629Good alright or meh alright
>>144512965I wonder if this is part of why Asimov's stuff has been left mostly alone as well.
>>144501470We already had Mirage for that.
>>144515691>sexy evil sorceress/queen falls head over heels for the good hearted hero Why is this such a good trope?
>>144523636Because it's such a powerful conflict of interest. Also, evil is sexy.
Bump
>>144513113>I think Barsoom is fully public domain, even.It is, though the estate still holds a trademark on John Carter, which they've used for some pretty weird frivolous suits before to get money out of the likes of Dynamite.
>>144514278Didn't that pone have a lizard queen?
>>144505748God, yes but I have zero faith that it wouldn't be completely fucking ruined by dumbshit writers trying to insert their own values into a perfectly good narrative, which is so fucking retarded because the whole Barsoom series is insanely progressive even by today's standards if you're halfway literate and able to read past the surface-level of-the-time stuff. The fact that Dejah Thoris was a strong fully-realized character with complex motivations and agency despite being ostensibly just a damsel in distress in most of the stories, but Didney's tards felt the need to turn her into a super-genius scientist being put down by the patriarchy and also the space jew cabal is the perfect representation of all the ways TV/movie writers don't understand the things they are adapting worth a fuck.
>>144524488She was a scientist in the books but this is never really brought up after the first few chapters of the first book, so I don't mind adaptations expanding on that aspect of her character a bit as long as they don't get obnoxious or preachy about it.
>>144525225I have zero recollection of any mentioning of her being a scientist, though admittedly I haven't read that first book in a long while. Was it actually mentioned that she was studying anything specifically or was it just some off-handed mentioning of her having some scientific knowledge because she was a princess and this was tutored in various forms of academia? The thing that rubbed me wrong about it in the film was that they clearly were trying to give her some kind of arc for the film, because they couldn't figure out how to write a character with depth who isn't also the driving force of the narrative.
>>144525617She was the head scientist in charge of the climatological survey expedition that gets ambushed by the Tharks. That's why she was with the fleet when it went through Thark territory. She never does any science-related stuff after that though and her profession just sort of never comes up again.
>>144524451That pone could ruin your day.Ming had lizard girls in sexy wear, and maybe some in his harem, don't recall about a queen.
>>144489947>>144512965It's almost like this is an effort by a highly centralized corporate web to dumb down the masses outside of the Club like Rockefeller wanted. Really makes you think.>>144489992It's sad thinking what could have been. Imagine a John Carter adaptation done by the same people at Dreamworks who made El Dorado and Prince of Egypt. That would have been a classic, easily.
>>144526610>It's sad thinking what could have been. Imagine a John Carter adaptation done by the same people at Dreamworks who made El Dorado and Prince of Egypt. That would have been a classic, easily.This could have unironically killed Disney if it was timed right.
>>144522470A little bit, academics loathe genre fiction and a lot of the people who study it can only be described as pissbreathing fagtards. We had anon have a fucking meltdown on /lit/ some months back over studies and discussion at the academic level of Carmilla having stalled the fuck out on "huur, was the vampire a lezbo?" 150 years or so ago and having never moved passed that.Actually a quick archive dive dug it up:>https://warosu.org/lit/thread/22985336This anon's meltdown gives a prime, if extreme, example of what we might consider the problem with the treatment of genre fiction. Being cast out by academia has resulted in a shitload of it having the only people studying it being pseuds, faggots, pseudofaggots, and tourists looking for cheap political points and/or something to either pretend to be educated/cultured about or to shit on a past they actively refuse to learn about.Asimov is in a better position than Burroughs, let alone fucking Le Fanu, due to being younger and more deeply grounded in science that hasn't been largely outmoded or rendered obsolete, but he's still starting to fall into some of the same trap.The I,Robot film is a good example actually, it's actually a *very good* example of the shit Asimov was demonstrating with his stories in that collection and even builds on it but a lot of retards saw "action movie" and reverted to mouth breathing shit that showed that without some fag with authority/prestige telling them something has depth and explaining how most of them can only parrot shallow takes and refuse to engage with material.
>>144526913Yeah guess that also makes sense. Not just from without but within sometimes it seems. I always thought his Robots works and collections would have made for a good anthology animated series or something so seeing that one never came up always disappointed me. Then of course there's all the other works with The Foundation which I think may be a little harder to directly adapt. Maybe the Elijah Baley books could have worked as a good foundation.
>>144525760ah okay yeah that sounds familiar now
ERB gals really are underrated
Drew it cuz y not? :p
>>144524451>>144526522The queen shows up I think in an episode of the crappy second season. Either that of the movie compilation of s1.Filmation's Tarzan deserves a mention again too.
>>144501470On one hand, I completely agree. On the other hand, I love the trope of a bunch of non-humans being lead by a human.
I'm baffled that I somehow missed this cartoon when I was growing up, despite watching literally every other Disney animated series. I didn't even know it existed until I saw this thread.
>>144489785>some Texas redneck with an Oedipus complex and hidden homosexuality is the American TolkienREH is the best USA can do? Yeah, I believe it.>>144489947>kids should read what I like only
>>144501470If she looked like that I wouldn't mind it. That's some darn good Tiger La there anon. That your work there anon?
>>144530713thanks, and yes.Only time I've drawn her tho
>>144530744Nice. Good stuff anon. Always cool seeing La getting some attention and in a way that's thematic for the show is cool.
>>144501470Nice work
>>144530395From what I gather it had a weird release. Locked into only a premium channel and then getting very limited reruns late late into the night.
Pulps like Edgar Rice Burroughs, Doc Savage by Lester Dent, Robert E Howard and HP Lovecraft should really be read when you're eleven or so. Your imagination is all cranked up and you're more receptive.
>>144528936Nudity was a HUGE part of ERB's appeal. In the represses 1920s and 1930s, Tarzan running around all muscular and naked got everyone worked up.
>>144530464It's more that to contend with the ability of some celt working with just a local library, his buddies via mail, and whatever he got from various periodicals it took the British producing a linguistic genius working with a college education and access to vast swathes of academic resources.
>>144506447an underlying reason was that Burroughs' first marriage was so unhappy. He kept giving Tarzan all these sex bad girls throwing themselves at him because it was what he wished would happen to him.
>>144500205Tolkien publishes some scholarly works about Beowulf and such, but his contribution is THE HOBBIT and LORD OF THE RINGS... which is more than enough!
>>144499927As much as I've enjoyed reading Burroughs all my life, this is overstating things. The moon landings were mostly a product of the proxy Cold War race between the US and the USSR and military applications were the main motive. Burroughs knew almost nothing about gorilla behavior and not much about animal life in general...he had tigers in Africa in the first edition. He was an exciting, creative writer but we don't need to oversell him.
>>144534110This is true. They just don't have the same punch when you read them as an adult. They can't compete with video games or social media for the attention of modern preteens though, so their niche is kind of gone. Maybe that one anon is right when he says schools should be using old pulp to make their mandatory reading lists less boring for kids, but good luck selling that idea as educational.
>>144489842One of the great joys in life.
>>144534304He is directly responsible for everyone who put us on the moon wanting to go into the field. That's not even an exaggeration.Same with apes. Jane Goodall has always been very, very explicit that if she hadn't read Tarzan as a child she would never have had an interest in her field of study and she was practically the definition of a pioneer in the field. And his works were, while not quite always exceptionally up to date in their various fields as he was more of a storyteller than a man interested in staying on the cutting edge of up to date science than some of his immediate successors, well within the bounds of what a reasonably well read man might produce in those days so it was hardly like he was at fault for lacking access to the vast quantities of modern, easily referenced information of today.
>>144490149I think Tolkien was just being polite, like listening to your neighbor''s little kid sing. In his letters and interviews, he has nothing much good to say about any American authors or cultures. He was "ENGLISH" to the bone.
>>144495658Big big part of the book's success. In 1912, 1920, people were still wearing bathing suits with long sleeves and full leggings to the beach,
>>144534110>>144534326Howard and Lovecraft actually have some pretty powerful discussions and struggles going on about the nature of humanity and human civilization in their works but due to the genre fiction ghetto anons talked about upthread the only people taken seriously discussing them in colleges are fags who just want to dunk on their headcanon version of Lovecraft and the Howardian discussion about human innate dignity and the contrasting of civilization as Icarus, ascending as high as it can only to cause itself to annihilate completely upon its fall VS one that reaches lower heights but always rises again goes entirely overlooked, to say nothing of Lovecraft's struggles with human nature VS scientific understanding as how relates to quality of life and emotional and mental wellbeing.
>>144499927Siegel and Shuster based Superman mostly on Hugo Danner from Philip Wylie's novel GLADIATOR. Word for word, the analogy with ants jumping and lifting great weights was swiped. They always denied it because Wylie would have sued them and taken every penny they had.
>>144511881The only problem was that La was a psycho fanatic who did human sarcrifice as a way of life. Talk about sticking your dick in crazy.
>>144534501>"Siegel has cited the John Carter of Mars stories by Edgar Rice Burroughs as an influence on the source of Superman's strength and leaping ability being the lesser gravity of a smaller planet.">Andrae, Tom; Blum, Geoffrey; Coddington, Gary (August 1983). Marschall, Richard (ed.). "The Birth of Superman". Nemo, the Classic Comics Library (2). Fantagraphics Books: 6–19.
>>144526610Adding to that is the determination of the masses to dumb themselves down because it's easier than thinking.
>>144534396I do find that a wild overstatement. The Space Race of the late 1950s was mostly military competition between the US and USSR. It would have proceeded as it did if Burroughs had never existed. A number of the scientists involved certainly had read Buck Rogers, Robert A Heinlein, Captain Future, and EE Doc Smith as well, but the government leaders drove the race on pure military/technological motives. It's not like Burroughs was the first or the best to write about interplanetary travel.
>>144534564Siegel denied the influence of GLADIATOR for the understandable reason that Wylie was a successful author known for his lawsuits. it was only prudent to deny the obvious.
>>144534396I don't want to downplay that amazing work Jane Goodall achieved nor her love of Tarzan. But intense interest in gorillas preceded Burroughs in many travel books and articles, as well as dime novels and pulp stories. If not Goodall, other researchers would certainly have continued investigation and research. And of course, Burroughs invented many misconceptions about gorillas that took forever to debunk, including their carrying off human women for rape.
>>144534326Someone long ago wrote that the Golden Age of science fiction adventure is that age of twelve.
"The savage personal combat, the blood, the contact with the mighty body of the carnivore, had stripped from him the last vestige of the thin veneer of civilization. It was no English lord who stood there with one foot upon his kill and through narrowed lids glared about him at the roaring populace. It was no man, but a wild beast, that raised its head and voiced the savage victory cry of the bull ape, a cry that stilled the multitude and froze its blood." - TARZAN AND THE LOST EMPIRE
From 1930, this is a fascinating (if somewhat depressing) book by Philip Wylie, another major writer once widely-read but today almost forgotten. Wylie's style is obviously more mainstream and refined than the more feverish prose of the average pulp writer, but his theme is equally spectacular.If remembered at all these days, GLADIATOR is usually cited as the primary influence for the original Golden Age version of Superman. Reading this book in close proximity to the story in the first issue of ACTION COMICS (1938), the borrowing is so obvious that it seems hard to doubt. The other major influence of course was Doc Savage himself - both heroes named Clark, one the Man of Bronze and the other Man of Steel, the Fortresses of Solitude in the Arctic* Not that I have anything against any of this, since storytellers have been drawing on earlier tales for inspiration since language began.GLADIATOR is the life story of Hugo Danner, a young man from Colorado whose scientist father injected his pregnant wife with a serum that gives the boy superhuman powers. Like the comic book hero who followed, Hugo can lift immense weights, jump over the tops of trees and shrug off machine gun bullets. Like the early Superman, he can't literally fly or see through walls or that sort of thing. His abilities are normal human capabilities magnified enormously. (He's still flesh and blood, needs food and air, and is human enough to be able to go on occasionally drunken benders and sexually cavort with naughty ladies without injuring them.)The real tragedy is that Hugo never finds a useful outlet for his powers. Aside from a brief destructive rampage he goes on during World War I, he can't manage to put his abilities to good use and his attempts inevitably go wrong.
Wylie presents a much more cynical (but perhaps realistic) view of human nature than Siegel and Shuster did. In real life, anyone with these powers would most likely either: be corrupted by them and become a brutal monster; be feared and hated by an envious population; or probably be captured and studied by the authorities in an attempt to duplicate him, even it meant dissection.The solution Superman finds, the concept of a double life, doesn't occur to Hugo. He tries intimidating corrupt politicians or backing social reformers, and becomes hopelessly disillusioned with the dismal results. When he frees a man trapped in a bank vault by yanking the door off, he's interrogated and tortured by the police to find out how he did it. Maybe he should have become a private investigator (using his powers judiciously). I imagine Mike Shayne would have liked to be able to ignore a bullet in the chest or a blackjack to the head and glibly explain it later, and being able to (with restraint) beat up three or four thugs would have been useful, too. [As someone pointed out, actually Mike Shayne DOES do that sort of thing on a regular basis.]Maybe Hugo should have become a solitary explorer of dangerous territory (this was 1930, remember) or specialized in rescuing people in disasters like floods or earthquake aftermath. Or even keep a simple black hood in his pocket and prowl bad neighborhoods at night to protect people about to be robbed or molested (there's a reason why this patrol gig appeals to super-heroes). He would have being doing SOME good, at least.
>>144530395>>144533880It aired daily on broadcast television back in 2001 to 2003 on the Disney One, Too block, which replaced The Disney Afternoon block. I didn't get Cable until 2001...my friends with cable were talking it up like it was a big deal, but it seems like you guys only got shows we had YEARS after they'd already aired, or at some weird-ass times. Tarzan was a part of the Disney One, Too along with Gargoyles, Hercules, Aladdin, and The Mighty Ducks, etc.
>>144487804
La was the kind of girlfriend the cops would be putting cuffs on at 3 in the morning while you stood there with a bloody nose and held your dead dog.
>>144535273Kino
>>144534693>Wylie was a successful author known for his lawsuitsAh, like Ann Rice
>>144534663Yeah but we aren't dealing in hypotheticals, even likely hypotheticals, we're dealing in what confirmably happened which was the people responsible can almost universally trace their entire careers back to Burroughs, a phenomena so well known and understood the Chinese government jumpstarted attempts to produce science fiction in the hopes of a similar payoff.Also almost every single one of those writers and stories you just mentioned were also inspired by Burroughs, Heinlein in particular was very open about his love of Burroughs, it's why he wrote the Martian Chronicles.It's like yeah sure probably SOMEBODY was gonna establish the Holy Roman Empire or something similar but regardless of if somebody else could have or might have it was still Charlemagne that did it.
>>144535489Heh, fair enough. Some authors are more protective than others. Wylie was both wealthy and pugnacious. If he felt that Siegel and Shuster were consciously plagiarizing his book, those kids would have been run over by lawyers. You have to be a bit skeptical when writers and musicians deny an influence.. sometimed they just have to be prudent.
>>144535549I'm still dubious about it all. Some of the scientists involved expressed their love for Edgar Rice Burroughs, but they were not the ones driving the Space Race. That was the governments of the US and USSR, motivated by getting a military advantage in space. NASA wasn't a civilian volunteer organization of visionaries. And, of course, those scientists were also aware of Flash Gordon, The Lensmen, all the hundreds of pulp stories about space travel. I wouldn't put too much weight on remarks about a single author being the main motivating force. (Ray Bradbury wrote THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES, not Heinlein.)
>>144534304>tigers in AfricaWith all the lost white colonies littering the countryside, they'd fit right in.
>>144489275>Most versions of Orcs for examples actually owe a lot more to Burroughs Green MartiansOh, shit, that's where Warhammer stole the concept and design from
>>144535863The point being that of course Burroughs had very little knowledge about Africa. The later editions of the first book substituted a lioness. As the decades passed, Burroughs added a dozen Lost Civilizations founded by Atlantis, Carthage. Rome, the Crusaders, the Phoenecians and more. I don't think he ever brought tigers back for any ot them.
>>144523636Even in ages past good men have seen evil women and had that nagging thought in the back of their head like James Bond has had with every femme fatale who has tried to kill him; "She digs me. I can fix her."
>>144501470Oh no you don't. I'm not being tricked into becoming a furry just because you made the first cartoon crush of my childhood into some sexy black panther MILF. I ain't falling for it.
>>144535948Not to mention the 18-inch tall Ant Men, the Engliish-speaking city of gorillas, the tailed people of Pal-Ul-Don AND the shenanigans going on in the Hollow World of Pellucidar!
>>144535944Kinda yeah. Warcraft orcs are unironically closer though, being capable of honor and having a stronger loyalty to the nation, even down to calling themselves a "horde" just like the Tharks.
>>144536313And it goes both way, natch. Many thousands of women getting into one abusive relationship after another. wanting to marry imprisoned serial killers and mass rapists. We humans can be dumb.
>>144535948Seems like most brits did. After all, the idiots called the lion the king of the JUNGLE.
>>144536470>because you madeI am but an apprentice>I ain't falling for it.don't click this link thenhttps://co.llection.pics/post/list/queen_la/1
>>144536586That's just a phrase, not a scientific classification, and it's hard to name an African animal who would replace the lion as apex predator. Add to that that lions were extant and active in Europe well into historic times and were a symbol of both power and royalty.
>>144536729No you retard, he's pointing out that lions literally do not live in jungles.
>>144534405There's a recent book that researched all the literature he mentioned or owned, he seems to have liked Asimov and Clarke and called science fiction SF and referenced the SFWA guild, and was fascinated by Injun tales like Last of the Mohicans and the Song of HiawathaPeople get hung up pontificating on him not liking Dune and refusing to elaborate, but he read a lot more than one would expect given his Dark Ages Europe autism
>>144528936Fuck lads. We should have gotten an animated John Carter in 2002 or 2003.
>>144536827I haven't seen that book. I was getting my impression from his letters and biographies. He agreed with CS Lewis that America was not "a decent country,"
you may not die until I am done
>>144530713>>144532710>>144536470ok just for (You) anons
>>144529534Hot
>>144501470>>144529534>>144538186>random Tarzan thread has better content than most drawthreads
>>144538186Ok, now this is a view that is worth trekking through the jungle for. Sizeable and tight queenly bum perfectly spotted after the leopards she commands. Fantastic.
>>144536534>Engliish-speaking city of gorillasThis one was funny. In pursuit of immortality a mad scientist somehow also stumbled upon making gorillas intelligent and able to speak English. The bit where Tarzan tried to speak to the gorilla taking Jane in the ape language only for it to call him a savage in perfect English without understanding a single word Tarzan said was great.
>>144538186You are a saint.
>>144538186>>144501470Pretty poggers, not gonna lie
>>144538734Burroughs could be funny sometimes. In TARZAN AND THE LION MAN, our hero is in Hollywood and decides to try out for a Tarzan picture but is told he's not the type. Burroughs also had some seriously evil opinions; he said that crime could be permanently eliminated by killing the families of criminals so there would be no more crooks. He thought it was entirely hereditary.
>>144538186I blame low ghetto culture for popularizing fat sloppy butts. Tight neat gymnast asses are the best.
>>144539885That one was fun. The casting director called Tarzan not Tarzan enough for the role and made him a hunter intended to be killed by a lion instead. That Tarzan had fun with it and still rolled with that was cool of him and touched on the not often brought up part of Tarzan where he did have quite a sense of humor. That he killed the lion on set after it went wild and started attacking people only to get kicked out because of that was a fun way to wrap that up.
>>144487804Wanna fuck her hard
>>144541064Hot La.
>>144538734Fuck, I wanna read that one. What's the title?
>>144538186*sqiunts*Redout?
>>144542021nah I just roughly followed how he renders her, since I didn't feel like going the full nine yards of inking and screentones
>>144501470She should been able to become a cat lady
>>144521122>>144522378Be a fun cross over
>>144538734Huh, now I wonder if that's where Broome and Infantino got the idea from
>Find out Queen La is actually a character in the books>Already reading African adventure stories by HR Haggard>Might as well add Tarzan to the list
>>144542823Haggard is great, he's much more of a serious novelist. Burroughs is fast, wild Pulp Magazine fiction. Both fun in different ways.
>>144542455 Very possible. The whole Green Lantern Corp was a swipe from EE Doc Smith's Lensmen stories and the X-Men were a steal from Henry Kuttner's Baldy series. Everyone swipes.
>>144501470Helloooo
>>144534474You sound like those critics who like a science fiction novel and then write, IT'S NOT SF BECAUSE IT'S GOOD!
>>144540017Nice, sounds like the books really went places... and here I thought the movies went wild.
>>144543127And Kuttner probably swiped from Stapledon and Van Vogt.
>>144543464ODD JOHN, very likely. The phrase "Homo Superior" came from there, I think? And SLAN did predate Kuttner's stories by a few years. It all went into the ingredients.A few years ago, I read SATAN'S MURDER MACHINES from the 1940s, where pulp hero the Spider fought a bunch of mechanized armored crooks led by their leader, Iron Man. I don't criticize authors swiping, it's part of storytelling from day one. And so many early Marvel characters and stories were inspired by 1950s drive-in movies. FIRST MAN INTO SPACE, THEM!. THE INCREDIBLE SHRINKING MAN. THIS ISLAND EARTH, DAY THE EARTH STOOD STILL... To me, it's part of the warm nostalgic atmosphere/
>>144543602Man you should read the first version of Agents of ATLAS, if you haven't.
>>144487804Need to mix in some LovecraftShouldn't be hard
>>144543697Thanks! I'll look into them.
>>144543127Alfred Bester wrote the GL oath. Based.>>144543464>>144543602Stapledon is who convinced me that British SF is superior.
>best /lit/ thread in months is on /co/yet another point for the "worst place to discuss any given topic on 4chan is on its respective board" theory.
>>144543927I am still craving a big-screen adaptation of Bester's THE STARS MY DESTINATION! Also, Clarke's CHILDHOOD'S END. Or some Fritz Leiber Fafhrd and the Mouser stories...
>>144543927One funny thing about Brit SF (both written and live-action) is that it features a much stronger element of self-sacrifice than American SF does. So many times someone has to die or at least suffer horribly to stop a menace. American SF seems to be more straightforward about its victories. I don't know any deep significance from this, though.
>>144544341WW2 maybe? The UK was smaller and closer to Germany after all.British SF is also more prone to realism especially if pessimistic. Read John Brunner's The Sheep Look Up and tremble.>>144544275Maybe it's too late already. That kind of stories has been told before in other books and movies, like ERB's Barsoom; hence the live action flop ;_;>Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and the Mouser storiesNow that's an underrated fantasy series.
>>144543766Absolutely wouldn't be hard at all. Tarzan's Africa was pretty much an endless plane of new places to discover and ancient and not so ancient civilizations to find of all kinds. Wouldn't be too hard to work in something like that I'd think.
>>144544006ikr? same with the cult of the lamb's threads, we had peacefull discussions instead of instantly disqualifing the game as boring or zoomer slop
>>144543169No? That would be retarded. Only a fucking imbecile would somehow think being Scifi means something somehow isn't good. The genre's perfectly capable of having deep thematic or conceptual discussions, which is just as valid a focus as just being a well constructed narrative and story. The idea that one goal is both superior to the other as well as being exclusive to some bullshit conglomerate genre we call "literature" like that's not a general fucking word and classification is fucking retarded faggotry. The same kind of faggotry that tries to pretend Magical Realism is a thing and somehow not fantasy because something something Latinos.Burroughs, Lovecraft, and Howard's fun scifi and fantasy stories just happened to be both immensely good stories on their own right that are very much iconic works of those genres as well as massively influential pieces of literature that probably have both more meaningful things to say as well as more societal impact that half the supposedly deep or relevant literature they teach in schools.
>>144546066>Only a fucking imbecile would somehow think being Scifi means something somehow isn't goodThey're usually found in major American media, like The New Yorker or Washington Post.>Magical Realism is a thing and somehow not fantasy because something something Latinos.Who said that? The aforementioned imbeciles, I guess. >probably have both more meaningful things to say as well as more societal impact that half the supposedly deep or relevant literature they teach in schools.There you go again, dissing on non-genre just like other people diss on genre. That makes you the same kind of fool than them, you know.
>>144544275Childhood's End is kind of weak honestly, it's the problem with a lot of that weird subgenre of scifi that kinda devolves into misanthropic neo-nihilism/pop-nihilism.>>144545090It's probably more rooted in the whole End of Empire sentiment, there's a sizable undercurrent of bitterness in British fiction starting from the point the Empire starts to break down a bit. You see it a bit in some of their early pulps the best really, Indian independence kinda fucking broke them I think.
>>144545090Good point about WW II. Both the Blitz and the long years of rationing and doing without had an effect. And, as much as I love American gung-ho problem-selving attitude in SF and adventure, the British attitude is after all more realistic. I like them both in their different ways. /
>>144546124I live in the UK and you're right.>>144546319So do I.
>>144546124I think you're right. The late 50s James ond books were so popular partly because of the luxury, fine cuisine and exotic locations (which most Brits couldn't manage). But there was also the reassurance that Britain was still a major world power and a single Englishman could save the world where those damned Yanks couldn't.
>>144545836DefinitelyPeople just need to remember that nothing in Lovecraft has a superpower that drives you mad by looking at it.
>>144546422>a single Englishman could save the world where those damned Yanks couldn't.kek, Jack Higgins wrote the same kind of propaganda but it almost felt like a parody.
>>144546437About the Necromican making its reader go insane, is is true that FBI profilers have limited careers because they start to think like the serial killers they try to understand? Or is that a myth?
>>144546469You know that school teachers eventually become as childish as their students.
>>144546469I don't believe soThat just sort of shit can really fuck with your mental health over time
>>144546437Yeah a lot of Lovecraft's surprisingly vicious attacks on anglo-saxon american culture at the time gets erased by fags instead reading it as going "AIIIIEEE A SQUID SAVE ME NIGGERMAN" and assuming the squid has magical powers and not that the protagonist is mentally fragile and unable to handle it despite supposedly being of "Superior Stock". The result is all anybody reads into is the more straightforward casual racism of the post-eugenics era because they're retarded fags.
>>144546557>low quality postTime to start my shift. See you tomorrow, /co/.
>>144546557It's the fact the squid is the size of a mountain and older than the planet that drives people madBut if you could handle that you could probably talk to him>Cthylla was captured by researchers who mistakenly believed her to be a rare specimen of a previously undiscovered octopus species. For the sake of preserving and studying the species, they attempt to impregnate her through artificial self-insemination.Although he probably doesn't like humans all that much.
>>144545836>PJ Farmer wrote some stories set in Opar 10000 years ago>10000 years ago is the Hyborian Age, time of Conan>Conan is part of the MythosThere we go
>La connects Tarzan to Atlantis>Society of Explorers and Adventurers connects Atlantis to Indiana Jones and the Rocketeer>The Rocketeer connects everything to the Shadow, Doc Savage and the SpiritThe Disney Pulp Universe...
>>144546647Conan-ish would definitely be the way to include Lovecraft elements.Yes that creature did live from before men drew breathe and would have lived til the stars died, Tarzan still killed with a spear and fire.Queen La is absolutely drenched by the way.>>144546698Gonna have to look into the various pulp-ish Disney Properties
i think the thing that makes people not 'get' Lovecraft or misunderstand it, is that his cosmic horror is just a scientific fact nowadaysthat the universe doesn't notice or give a shit about us. that's the mind numbing go-insane-button horror he was talking aboutbut it's just like pic related nowadays
>>144546780>Yes that creature did live from before men drew breathe and would have lived til the stars died, Tarzan still killed with a spear and fire.Yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking
>La and Opar>The Leopard Men>Philander>The Waziri>Mangani, at least the name>PelucidarIt's amazing just how much from the books the cartoon managed to useA trip to Barsoom wouldn't have been out of place, honestly
>>144546826ThisToo many people think it's fish people want to kill you or something when really its more the Color Out of Space where something you can't really explain is happening, people have died and all you can hope is that running will save your life.
>>144546826Anon we both know these days it'd be this
>>144546826Absolutely. In the 1920s and 1930s a lot more people believed we were the center of existence and the universe revolved around us. Lovecraft was Existentialist.
>>144546628Squid Vicious.
>>144546647Yeah, HP Lovecraft, Robert E Howard, Clark Ashton Smith, Robert Bloch and others all mentioned each others' concepts in their stories. Some book dealers thought the Necronomicon was a real rare book.
>>144543162yes? Can I help you?
It's cool, Aquaman has got this covered.
>>144547402 #Oh good!Tie yourself up and I'll get the fire ready.
>>14454735980s executives thought it was a real book when JMS wanted to use it in The Real Ghostbusters
>>144547413Now, some people might go "UM AKSHUALLY" cause Cthulhu isn't from Earth's oceans, but if Arthur can affect a Martian's brain through their aquatic ancestors he might be able to do thisDepends on how strong Cthulhu's mind is, I suppose
TARZAN AND THE ANT MEN.
>>144547585Canon Cthulhu wouldn't even notice him.
>>144547585Two different sets of rules, really. i think Aquaman is mortal and would be reduced to babbling nonsense if he tried to control Cthulhu but it's up to the writers and editors. I mean, if they wanted to publish it, there could be a story where Willie Lumpkin arm wrestles Arishem and wins two out of three.
Cthulhu vs Godzilla (let me outta here!)First, let me say I do not want to be anywhere near this match-up if it happened. I'd rather be able to get to sleep at night, thank you.*Well then there now. The more I think about it, the less certain I am of the outcome here. The usual explanation for Godzilla is that he is a surviving dinosaur enlarged and mutated by an atomic explosion (and gotten much bigger and more powerful since his first appearance). Yet, there is something beyond the natural about him. Not just that he's hundreds of feet tall and not only doesn't collapse under his weight but can walk around; nor that he can be wounded but heals almost instantly. No, it's the way he expels superheated radioactive steam from his mouth, hot enough to melt tanks and cause buildings to explode. It isn't brought up much in the movies, but Godzilla's presence in itself is enough to cause human beings to sicken and die. (In the first movie, too, (if I recall right) Pacific islanders had a legend of Godzilla as a destructive spirit from the sea -- implication seeming to be that he is older than his supposed origin would indicate.So my first immediate thought that of course Cthulhu would kill Godzilla in a few seconds seems less certain. Cthulhu is one of the Great Old Ones, millions of years old. Just his thoughts as he begins to awaken beneath the ocean are enough to cause nightmares and insanity in people around the world. In Lovecraft's story**, he is described thus, "a mountain walked or stumbled," and men died screaming at the sight. A boat cuts through his gelatinous bulk cleanly, yet Cthulhu reforms at once without being harmed.Godzilla seems physically a lot tougher and more pugnacious than Cthulhu (who, in human terms, resembles a flabby fat old reprobate).
\What good this would do against a being who can reshape himself, I don't know. Godzilla's heat ray might punch a hole right through Squidface or explode him into loathsome little blobs around the landscape. How long would it take for Cthulhu to gather himself together again is hard to say.Still, think about Lovecraft's story and reminiscing about the Toho films I've seen, my guess is that Cthulhu's mental powers would tip the scale. Godzilla is not terribly bright, he'll never finish a Sudoku puzzle without help, but he does have a brain and a certain lizard-level awareness. Being close to the nightmare-inducing Cthulhu would have some effect. My prediction is a Pyrrhic victory. Godzilla lumbers up onto the risen R'lyeh and blasts Cthulhu right in the puss with a white-hot radioactive steam, then rips the disoriented old god apart. But, even before he can return to the sea, Godzilla reels in confusion and terror as his mind shuts down and he sinks to the ground with heart failure. Then, slowly at first, the jello-like green clots of Cthulhu begin to slither back toward each other...
>>144547795>Cthulhu is one of the Great Old OnesHe's an Old One that's a priest for the Great Old Ones.There's actually a tier list video that goes over powers in Lovecraft. https://youtu.be/YLZjtosvBfU?si=wJMdy-I_M51xYJm5
>>144547932Fair enough. My impression is that Lovecraft himself did not entirely work out his pantheons and this was formalized later by Derleth and succeeding writers.
>>144547972Luckily that video only uses stuff written by Lovecraft himself
>>144547597I adore how out there this one was. Even compared to all the other hidden worlds. Tarzan getting shrunk to a small size and getting trapped in a whole kingdom of people of that size who can just do that and shrink people. It's not even an adventure he can ever really talk about to anyone since he just grows back to regular size near the end. If memory serves it may have been one of the most self contained of his adventures.
"I'm not that Old. Now, Azathoth, HE'S old as hell and Yog-Sohoth is no teen ager either!!"
>>144548031I'll give it a look.
>>144548041It's great! The middle period beginning around TARZAN THE TERRIBLE is still fresh and readable. I really enjoyed TARZAN AT THE EARTH'S CORE where our hero got completely lost in Pellucidar and just had a rough time surviving. You notice he never went back there.
One of the funniest things Burroughs ever wrote. A Stegosaurus lowers its back plates and glides around like a flying squirrel. I love the Pulps!
La of Opar would be fun to know if she didn't have that human sacrifice habit!
>>144547512better be carefulI fuck dark furred girls like you for breakfast
>>144548588And she breaks men like you with a touch
>>144548721And we're back at our usual level.
>>144548741Would you prefer more talk about Cthulhu?
>>144489947I buy it. I was gonna say something snide about Harlem Renaissance writers, but iirc the only things we really studied were There Eyes Were Watching God and Black Boy, both seemingly designed (and chosen for their ability) to utterly destroy any young black man who reads them. Pedagogues utterly shaken at the prospect of instead teaching, say, Baldwin, especially the white lady English majors who were the majority of my Lit. teachers. You will have found the limit of liberalism.
>>144548946No, no, carry on with bestiality fetish talk. It's a free country.
>>144508956They didn't need to since, you know, Star Trek. Which, coincidentally, inspired most of the products that have kept Apple from going bankrupt.
>>144549228I still don't buy that "all." There were tens of thousands of mathematicians, engineers, physicists, chemists and general scientists of all types involved during the 50s and 60s. No one checked what "all" of them had read.
>>144546826I think part of it is that people have built up defenses about thinking too deeply about that sort of thing. "Universe doesn't care, we can't comprehend, boohoo," is unaffecting if you don't try. But if you do... hoo boy, the things we've learned are absolutely fact in the interim, and the things we've dreamed up, make his stuff even scarier than it used to be. The ways time-space and perception works, the truly vast gulfs between anything familiar in the universe, etc.
>>144549295Even today, materialist people start reading about the observable universe and get all freaked out about insignificant we are. Just what the James Webb telescope had revealed lately stupefies me.
>>144549120NahI prefer La
>>144545836It's interesting and little disheartening that this strain of imagination petered out as the geography was mapped and white people the world over sulked over concluding that Africa was, in fact, inhabited largely by black people. Just waiting for them to do the LIDAR thing over Congo et al., like they've been doing in South America, and discovering that there were actually large advanced settlements all over the continent or whatever.
>>144546628The amount of fanart suggests that people would be quite interested in having a chat.
So when do they fight the deep one?
>>144549370I think that's reading way too much into fantasy stories. There was no doubt sub-Saharan Africa was inhabited by Africans. As long as large enough areas were unmapped by white people, imagination still could play with lost civilizations of all kinds. White people did not "sulk" when this became untenable. They simply shifted the imaginary societies to other planets, eras or dimensions. STAR TREK a hundred years ago would have been about a ship finding strange societies deep in the Pacific.
>>144549292It's probably not "all", just enough that you can say that the stories' existence had a significant effect on the efforts as a whole.
>>144513216>Jane>on La's outfitPost episode name/numberNOW
>>144549455Yeah, it's fair to say that some people involved in NASA had read Edgar Rice Burroughs. But the US and the USSR would have carried on the Space Race whether or not Burroughs had existed. It was driven by political and military realities more than a fannish dream.
How come 1995-2005 cartoons were so good?
>>144549476
>>144549442Eh. It's a matter of perception. There're multiple blockbuster video game series (i.e., conceived and popular within the past 2 decades) about finding and exploring lost civilizations in parts of the world that are all but fully understood geographically. But they're mostly set in Asia, sometimes South America. You get a rare on in the US sometimes (National Treasure, those couple of episodes of Jonny Quest). Almost never Africa. The fantastic imagination of Western writers (Black Panther notwithstanding) vis a vis Africa ends when you have to involve actual black Africans. Which, again, is a shame specifically because actual lost South-of-Sahara African civilizations (or communities, at least) could be a scant few years from discovery.
>>144549476"Tarzan and the Return of La" is the twenty-seventh episode of The Legend of Tarzan
>>144549485Fandom shaped the form of America's approach. For example, it's probably part of the reason we went to the moon instead of trying to compete directly with Russia on its obsession, suicide probe shipments to Venus.
>>144549476There were two episodes, the other one in >>144549508 being a "La takes over Jane's body" episode after their duel for the staff and freedom of the leopard men leaves her without a body.
>>144549578Fair enough. In the US at least, pop culture doesn't even try a lone white hero having any adventures at all in Africa. There would be outage over the White Savior cliche. (Although that recent Tarzan movie with Samuel Jackson and some actor whose name I can't spell) did a pretty tactful job. Other nations and cultures are less likely to take offense to the same extent. (In a related thought, why don't Irish-Americans get furious every St Patrick's Day at the abominable "Irish accents" all over?)
Should have seduced Jane first
La has the latest in sacrificial altars
>>144549613Not at all. The Moon was such an obviously more accessible target than anything else that a manned landing was inevitably the first choice for a manned expedition. The practical minds in Washington and the Kremlin were not being swayed by Buck Rogers or Flash Gordon. Some of the people involved may have been inspired to choose their careers because of pulps but the Space Race wasn't influenced by it. That'd be like saying the American West was settled because some Easterners read dime novels. There were huge historical forces at work.
Fun little derp faceOr maybe she's seen beyond into the dreamlands
Kneel before your Queen
Flexible>>144549817Why?
>>144549719"Do you expect me to talk?""No, Mr Tarzan, I expect you to DIE"
I know what you sick freaks want to see
>>144549840Her marriage failed and she became a Bad Girl.
A hood does not equal levels in Ranger
>>144549889See?
>>144549734I'm giving you evidence, but if your response is just going to be, "Nuh uh that'd be stupid!" over and over, we don't have to continue, you know.>That'd be like saying the American West was settled because some Easterners read dime novelsThe American Gold Rush was a massive expansion of Western American development literally driven by spurious tales of unimaginable wealth hidden in the frontier; modern myth-making. You can even can stretch a bit and touch Hollywood and Silicon Valley with the same notion. Look up the influence of Neuromancer and Rainbows End on the contemporary XR space; people are literally just trying to make some of the technology speculated on in those novels a reality.Your overarching bet here is against the power of a good story to motivate, even shape, people's ambitions. Which just seems foolish, given the evidence and what we know about human nature.
Wouldn't you trust this face?
The real reason Jane stays
>>144549916You think that some people reading pulp stories in their youth had an appreciable effect on the Space Program and I find it so improbable as to be dismissed. We can leave it at that.The Western expansion was driven by need for land for an expanding population, as well as the expected greed to exploit natural resources. It wasn't a product of reading YOUNG BUFFALO BILL Dime Novels. I understand how fiction can inspire but it is way dwarfed by practical motivation. That's how I fel.
please stop spamming the thread to bump limit while I'm trying to draw furry porn
>>144550006Do a Meerkat
>>144549667>Although that recent Tarzan movie with Samuel Jackson and some actor whose name I can't spellFunny that that movie has Belgian atrocities in its plot cause Lord and Lady Greystoke went to Africa to investigate just that in Burroughs' books
>>144550079Oh, I quite overlooked that connection. As I recall, in one of the early books, Tarzan is in Abyssinia trying to fights agitators and spies of some European nation... evidently Italy. One wonders what other espionage capers he got into not chronicled in the books.
Some of Tarzan's friends have those useful prehensile tails...
>>144550017no, Mirage anon is asking for it
>>144546647And Kull is Atlantean from before that.
>>144546628>Researchers raped Cthulhu's daughterTbh that's kinda fucking based.
>>144550517Can't rape the willing anon, at her power level only her own interest is keeping her there.
>>144549889She looks so cute
>>144546826>>144547015>>144549295Actually Lovecraft's biggest thing is he was alive at a time when cutting age science and humanist values were saying two contradictory things about where the value of human life was. Like sure "we're small haha we don't matter" and all that but the core thing is on one hand, his buddies are all fags and minorities and valuing human kindness and simple animal communalism feels good and seems to service happiness, but on the other hand science at the time speaks of superior breeds and contamination, weakness, as well as the inherent value of advancement and how it would lead to the betterment of mankind. I'm simplifying the fuck out of this obviously.Lovecraft was increasingly convinced that one or the other of these two schools of thought was wrong or that they were somehow incompatible with eachother and the human condition, something that's reflected a bit when he's not just shitposting with his friends, he turns pretty inwardly critical at times. The conclusion he seemed to reach was either we've wasted untold generations carrying out scientific advancement that has ultimately brought only suffering in a futile race that we've already lost and in the process have stifled our way to true happiness, or we're degenerate throwbacks and primitives, inherently tainted, who would be incompatible on a psychological level with the higher and further advancement of science and thus unable to handle the ascent to a better future, either way we're in Hell, essentially. And the "go insane at the reveleation" thing reflects that, it's Lovecraft saying that whichever is the answer he figured that at the least he, considered a prime, if physically slight and frail, example of what many considered the fittest race would not be able to handle it, using that as a commentary on his society.He technically wasn't even wrong it's just that it turned out most of the cutting edge science of his day ended up being dumpstered later after WWII.
>>144548268Oh wow, they were flying through the power of bullshit well before Godzilla
>>144549994Anon Carl Sagan had a map of Barsoom outside of his office in NASA until after he fucking died. This isn't improbable, it's fucking historical fact.
>>144549667>(In a related thought, why don't Irish-Americans get furious every St Patrick's Day at the abominable "Irish accents" all over?)Because we're largely descendants of the diaspora and are used to a shitload of people smearing us as "not irish" enough on various criteria, used to be the original model minority because we knuckled down and tried to preserve our heritage via integrating in a way that made it desirable, and also after close to like 4 and half thousand years most celts have moved pretty far past being mad that people copy us badly because they think our culture is fun and our accents are neat/funny.
We're never going to agree, we have different views about the relative importance of vast economic, military and poliical pressures vs taste in fantasy. We should let it go at that.
>>144550587>Cthylla just lying back and intentionally indulging in her rape fetish for as long as possible when her dad is in the relative equivalent of the next bedroom over.Is Cthulhu a cuck. Like on the metaphysical level I mean. Because this is pretty cucked behavior to allow this to happen in his living room more or less desu.
>>144550886Now try and say that again without sounding mad.
>>144550844It's something I've always wondered about. My thought was that Irish-Americans feel secure and confident enough to shrug off stereotypes. That, and having a sense of humor.
>>144549667>In a related thought, why don't Irish-Americans get furious every St Patrick's Day at the abominable "Irish accents" all over?They don't have social studies majors preaching to them about how oppressed they are, I guess.
>>144550913It's all in your mind that I sound mad. Don't start getting all 4chan, it's been a civil discussion.
>>144550618When she's out of sneering bitch face she's cute.
>>144550921>>144550935Well yeah that too, but like the fact that there's zero malice behind it, we're used to some subgroups judging us as "insufficiently irish" anyway, and we've dealt with so much worse and overcame it by working hard rather than being a snivelling bitch throwing tantrums about it all contribute to the "why" behind that.
>>144550894He only had a daughter because she's prophesized to birth him if he diesYes you read that right
>>144550962That's true, I don't think the St Patrick's Day commercials and radio jingles are meant to hurt in any way.
>>144551004Who is making this stuff up? It's like the most pointless fan-fiction ever.
>>144551052The Transition of Titus Crow by Brian Lumley for Birthing her father"In His Daughter's Darkling Womb" by Tina L. Jens for the inseminationOr at least as far as I can tell, its not core if that matters to you
>>144551004The idea that Cthulhu calls his daughter's rapist daddy is hilarious.
>>144551140I don't believe the events are connected. Hell with Old Ones I don't think any one would need to have sex with her for her to have the kid.
>>144550961You could almost forgive the murders
>>144551130Well, it doesn't really matter, I guess. There are so many books and stories misunderstanding Lovecraft's concepts that i think they're drowned out the original stories in a huge sodden pile by now. Same for Arthur Conan Doyle, Robert E Howard and Ian Fleming., I guess
>>144551207You can check the wiki for core books. Their all the books that were written while he was alive and could check them over.Although some were released by his friends after he had died.
>>1445014701) We've got Mirage for Disneytoon Cat Girls2) Furries belong on the cross3) The entire point of La is that she's a dark reflection of Tarzan who is gagging for his dick. She is the leader of a bunch of animals, just like Tarzan.
>>144551272I guess as long as the original stories are clearly labelled and available, no real harm is done. The worst that happens is that newcomers read some lame Conan pastiche or Sherlock Holmes swipe and never get to experience the original writers. It's like a dozen cover bands diluting the originals.
why does Mirage have pet underage gooners
>>144549994>I find it so improbable as to be dismissed.Without evidence or even a logical explanation as to why. Your view is anti-intellectual, ironically.> I understand how fiction can inspire but it is way dwarfed by practical motivation.You kind of have to prove it. This is a fundamental question of if extraordinary acts are driven by more by basic, mundane concerns, or by musing over the extraordinary. I think it's obvious which is more likely. Fantastic stories are just part of the feedback loop of meaning-manufacturing, and meaning is what drives us to search for more.>That's how I fel(sic).You have every right to be incorrect. Your confidence in it irks me.
>>144551593Are you trying to get someone mad in that 4chan game where you get to go YOU MAD BRO? and think you have won something? That's still going on.
>>144550673Thank you for this perspective, anon.
Atlantis was fucked up place in Lovecraft
>>144549667IME actual Irish people do get quite pissed about American (and even Irish-American) bullshit. The thing with black Americans is that their situation is fairly unprecedented globally simply by dint of the kind of country America purports to be, squared with how their ancestors got here and lived here for 400-ish years. In other cases, either the slaves get genocided/sent back/take over, but none of those things can happen in the US because then the US ceases to exist as a nation and a global power and an idea - and this applies to the West in general, to some extent. So you have a diasporic population in perpetual sociocultural limbo, and then an ancestral continent that gets caught up in the West's schizo regard for the people it kidnapped.This also applies somewhat to Native Americans, obviously for different reasons (mostly the actual successful genocide(s)). What's weird is acknowledging this history, as well as the history of realized fantastic potential, but then still just REALLY REALLY wanting to do, "White dude shoots his way through the jungle/savanna/Old West" (and then getting upset when people are offended and protest). It's a little sad. Hence the observation that there's some amount of sulking going on. A guess a lot of cultures have their own like hang-ups, though. The Japanese are probably never going to get over the bomb. The Chinese and Indians are obsessed - OBSESSED - with "retaking their rightful place", and historical epics of glories past and sci-fi that can't break out of colonial anxiety rule the box office and book shelves. Here I am, skipping over Africa again. It's hard to comment when my experience with African media is limited mostly to that old OBONSAM BESU DEVIL MAY CRY trailer.
>>144550673> his buddies are all fags and minoritiesWho are you thinking of? I know Samuel Loveman (unfortunate name) and Robert Barlow were both gay but that was about it. Loveman was also Jewish but Lovecraft overcame his strong anti-Semitism for him; Lovecraft was also briefly married to a Jewish woman. Aside from that, all his personal friends and many pen-pals were all straight white men. I don't see a single black or Latino or Asian friend. Did he even know an Italian?
>>144530464Almost everything on government school required reading lists is fucking gay and all that stuff the other guy is talking about is fucking rad. Me and all my friends hated that stuff, and only the ones who found the cool shit actually developed a love of reading.">kids should read what I like only" is exactly what the mediocre bureaucrats who designed these curriculums were thinking, you faggot
>>144550886No, because you still haven't explained your view sufficiently. There are many, many examples of the failure of vast economic, military, and political resources to produce anything of use or merit. We're giving you the tools to understand how the gap gets bridged, between the dead-eyed machinations of a soulless elite and the efforts (and direction, even against the desires of those machinations) of the people actually executing. Someone figures out the right story to tell.>>144551624I told you, I'm irked.
>>144537179Tolkien's Modern Reading by Holly Ordway, may or may not be related to Jerry
>>144551859Of course, it's human nature the world over to tell stories of a hero journeying to a far country and having adventures. It's not exclusive to white people, Asians or anyone else. Jackie Chan coming to America to show US cops where they're wrong and to beat up white people is part of a whole genre. "Sulking" about not being able to tell Jungle Jim stories is reading something that's not there... the heroes just go to other planets or dimensions or whatever and carry on the same way. There are no dozens of writers and producers fraustrated at not being able to tell Jungle Jim stories.Actually, I think all the Zombie movies are just a new way to tell stories about people fighting swarming hordes without being offensive.
>>144551939Thanks!
>>144551938It's a dead end. We're not going to agree and I'm not inclined to trade point and counter-point indefinitely. Believe what you will and I will do the same,
>>144551509The last two decades have seen a lot of progress made in separating the Conan pastiches from the originals in various modern omnibuses that only contain one or the other, or at least clearly label which is which. The issue was never the pastiches themselves but the way that they were always mixed in carelessly with the originals.
>>144552133Good point. Those Lancer paperbacks beginning in the 1960s mixed in Howard's Conan stories with pastiches by L Sprague de Camp and Lin Carter that just lacked all passion or conviction. You could say that it was the reader's responsibility to check the credits but I think a lot of newbies read a Lin Carter story and thought, what's the big deal?
>>144551885His best friend was a fucking celt anon, the Irish were literally considered barely better, if that, than niggers at the time. You're thinking of modern color racism and falling into the trap of thinking fags back then saw any difference between an italian, a latino, an irishman, or an african beyond which kind of slurs they'd use for that flavor of subhuman.Derleth was also very likely kinda gay for him or at least was kind of obsessed to the point you couldn't help but think he was and several of his other friends were rampant sexual deviants with one of them being not only a swinger but an avid race mixer which back then was looked upon as even worse that turbofags and trannies are now because nobody would go to bat for them at all on any real organized level.
>Which of his best friends was a fucking celt? Not Robert E Howard, they were penpals but never met. August Derleth was married to a woman for a few years and there is no evidence he was bisexual. To claim he was sexually interested in Lovecraft is libel, and the fact he was obsessed with Lovecraft's writing means nothing. Christopher Tolkien was not incestuous with his father because he spent decades editing the work. Which of Lovecraft's friends was an avid race-mixer? Where are you reading this stuff?
I gotta sleep and I am doubting thread will survive the night, so I will post big Mirage titties in the drawthread if thread is dead when i finish tomorrow
Fine, I'll fucking watch this show.
Just want to say I really appreciate this thread and all the discussion. I've loved genre fiction since I was six and swiping books off my parents' nightstands. Didn't really care for reading books in school, but like I told a guy a few days ago, it's never fun when you *have* to do it.
>>144552855Admittedly the thread is making me want to try it as well. Is there a mega or something for it?
>>144548268>Gliding StegosaurusThat is ridiculous in the best way possible. Where is this one from?
>>144553231It was from TARZAN AT THE EARTH'S CORE. Fun book. Because Pellucidar is at the center of the Earth and is lit by its own tiny sun, there is no sense of time passing or of direction. Tarzan gets hopelessly lost for the first time in his life!
>>144553254It is? I don't think I remember that bit. But it has been almost a decade since I last read through the complete collection so I'm probably forgetting a lot. It's going to be fun going back through and reading them again whenever I get around to that. That panel looks to have been from a comic adaptation. How are those?
>>144553275Those comics were from Gold Key in the 1960s, pretty closely adaptated from all the novels. Most of the stories (not this one) had gorgeous sleek Russ Manning art. We see Tarzan in a nice suit and tie lounging around 1912 Paris, we see his son Korak grow up into an adventurer of his own and there's just lots to enjoy. Russ Manning's version was what I visualized while reading the books.
