>>144602961For me I guess Orca, cuz I do think that writers have no idea what to do with her.
This is pretty much just going to be another X-Men thread
>>144602961Always see him as Lexington from Gargoyles.
Volumes 6 & 7 were a mistake
>>144602961
It's been like 60 years
>>144603005I'm surprised she never interacted with Aquaman or had her show up in Batman the Brave and the Bold cartoon
She Hulk
>>144602961Jackal's just bootleg Green Goblin. He sucks. Even Ultimate made Ock the creator of the Clones, and adaptations would've made Oscorp responsible for them anyway. You even have Mr Sinister as the go-to clone guy in the wider Marvel U. Dude's completely redundant.
>>144602961Sadly accurate, my favorite Jackle wasn’t even him it was Ben. Dude knew how to suit up.
Her personality undergoes a major rewrite every few years because all they have is "Carol's snarky friend" or "single mother"
>>144602961It's funny, I was just reading the newest issue of Spectacular. Hijacking his brother's life like that was just cold.
>>144604461I find it funny that they stopped drawing him fat after the reveal.
>>144602961These characters are called mistakes.
>>144604687Who is he talking to?
>>144605008(you)
>>144605008The Arcadium's AI system.
>>144603067Is there anything you can actually do with Toad though?Dude's been the joke of mutants for decades now
It's funny; Ben got the perfect costume for someone named "The Jackal" who brings people back from the dead, but the twist of it being Ben fucking ruined it.
Great White Shark
>>144602961This goes for most of the Inhumans post the failed 2010s push, but Crystal in particular feels the most misused. Bolt, Medusa, and Max are all central to the general plots. Gorgon and Karnak are the general Gophers. And Lockjaw is the Mascot that will probably be the only one to continue to see prominent use. Crystal meanwhile has been used almost solely as just a tired out slut to toss as a love interest around. And when they realized this and try to correct it, they went so far in the opposite direction she became a complete bitch. It feel like she should have more of a roll, being close family to the main cast and the Inhuman with arguably the most connection on Earth, yet they always never seem to know what to do with her.
>>144602961How hard is it to make a decent story about him killing a bad guy?
The Jackal is the worst Spider-Man villain ever. I wish he didn't exist
Any Symbiote not named Carnage or Venom
>>144606468Why?
>>144602961The Jackal
>>144605037The fumbling of gwenpool is wild to me. Everyone I've seen talk about it online or in person has loved the comics and concept but she remains essentially constantly irrelevant.
>>144606457Because he's actually in the right in most situations, , but DC cant allow him to actually out moral Batman, so they either have to either John Walker him into being wrong, or just right him as a good guy from the get go. Sucks that his best story is STILL the heavily flawed Under the Red Hood.
>>144606688Once the original writing team and artist left, the new teams missed the charm of her character, and just dick danced around with lam stories and crossovers until they finally just gave up and threw her to the Mutants.
>>144603005I don't know how I would do it but I'd find some way to fuck that thing.
>>144607058Get in line pal
>>144602961Captain Atom
>>144606156>>144603005Batvillains in general, outside of the usual suspects, are a graveyard of unrealized potential. It makes me appreciate shows like Beware the Batman, which took chances on the lesser-known members of his rouges gallery and gave us that rather nice Magpie update.Warren was great in his debut, but it feels like no one else really knew what to do with the guy.I've looked into Orca after reading about her on here, and it seems like she works really well within a cast of other low-level vigilantes/villains. Oddly enough, I think she only encountered Batman in her debut and the recent Batman and Robin comics.Other than that, it was always either Nightwing or other assorted misfits. She has potential though, and I hope other writers pick up where Tim Seeley, Sam Johns, and James Tynion IV left off.
>>144602961To be fair, Jackal is kind of trash villain.I just can't stand villains whose motivation is being a simp. So for me that's his first misstep. Besides my dislike of it, it limits his goals and motivations and makes him look too pathetic.Second is his design. He looks more like "green goblin" than Green Goblin does. A jackal is certainly not something I think of when I look at him.Three is there's only so much you can do with cloning as a gimmick and his well has already ran dry.Mr. Sinister and High Evolutionary are much cooler geneticist villains so that's four.
>>144606737>no glove>suddenly gloveI know what to do with it. Throw it in the fucking rubbish bin
>>144606645I still like clasic mania/andy, is the only non symbio that i think has both a cool desing and story. (At least before demon bullshit got in)
>>144602961He should have been a one-arc villain as intended. He's useless as a recurring threat and replacing him with Ben was a good idea (which won't ever be referenced again)>>144603698She's a total void.>>144606235Was an Avenger, they should play into that but she is persona non grata.
>>144606645Symbiotes are a mess. I hope Ewing uses the new time travel war plot to just retcon all of the new lore out of existence and go back to just one Venom but I know he won't because da franchise.
>>144606737To be fair, she's only a mutant when she wants to be because of her metaphysical powers.
>>144602961>Hey, Jackal always blamed Spider-Man for Gwen’s death. Now that Norman Osborn is back and he’s directly responsible. How about we have the two characters interact?Why hasn’t anyone at Marvel thought of this?
>>144607149This isn't messed up, it's beautiful
>>144607369Sucks too i really liked him in Armageddon and his old run.
>>144603067I liked his relationship with Husk at the start at least
>>144607369Last time I remember they tried to make him a bootleg Doc Manhattan, and they fed him to some crisis to stop him from unthinking the big band I guess. What's going on now?
>>144603067he was great in wolverine and the x-men by fan favourite jason aaron.
Jackal really needs to be adapted into a popular series that redesigns him to actually look like a Jackal and gives him decent motivation so synergy can save him.
All of it.
>>144608986No need to make him look like a Jackal, just give him the Anubis mask that Ben wore: >>144605861
>>144608986I have had quite enough of miles warren.
>>144609550What do you mean? Magik has been used a lot in recent years, far more than any of the other OG New Mutants. She's even in several videogames.
>>144602961Cloak and Dagger.
jesus christ Marvel Database - Fandom really needs to update marvel's characters history more they can start with the jackal.
>>144607842Too much green in one book, muddies the visuals
>>144607430It's worse, they turned him into a green Joker look-alike in the 90's.
>>144602961'It's a damn shame the DCAU's most tragic villain has almost nothing in the comics
I swear whenever these threads appear Jackal is always the first pick
>>144609590It's a wiki, you can do it yourself.
>>144603698I like her aesthetics sometimes, that's about it
>>144610619The character is just that much of a continual mess. Doesn't help that he's a crucial piece of one of the most infamous Spidey stories ever.Send in the clones!
>>144606235Crystal ironically suffers from not doing enough with the inhumans. She never leaned into the princess thing and mostly appeared elsewhere so she is never used in inhuman books. It wasn't just during the push she only had a few lines in jenkins, silent war, and war of kings. She is barely wallpaper in inhuman books. Sadly the Avenger won't use her because everyone from that run is blacklisted. It wasn't even bad it was just seen as a bootleg team.
>>144603698Probably shouldn't have given her powers identical to a much more famous and beloved character.
>>144607149I get that Orca's not supposed to appeal to monsterfuckers but I can't get over how they drew her face like Kingpin in bodypaint and it makes me laugh each time.
>>144610619>>144611237Starting with: why the fuck is he jackal-themed? It has nothing to do with his origin or methods.
>Scott and Jean are the protagonists of the X-Men>Hank is the funny/smart guy and has a cool design>Warren has being Archangel >Bobby.........is gay I guessYou can apply this to any character who the writers have decided is now gay/trans/race swapped
>>144612060whoopsy daisy forgot pic
>>144611902It was the 1960s, Magneto was neither famous nor beloved back then. And they had the same powers for the sake of a bait and switch plot where she's tricked into thinking she's Magneto's long lost daughter.Polaris' failure to take off as a character owes more to her spending most of the 70s and 80s retired from being a heroine, and being brainwashed or possessed whenever Claremont brought her back for anything. When she finally got a regular role in an ongoing book, it was in a beloved run on X-Factor, but it cemented the idea that she's a C-list X-book character who doesn't belong on the main team.
>>144604402>You even have Mr Sinister as the go-to clone guy in the wider Marvel U. Dude's completely redundant.>There's another character created ten years later who also creates clones, and is almost exclusively an X-Men villain>That means this Spider-Man villain is redundantWhy are you like this? You had an actual point about the Jackal being created as a replacement for the Green Goblin then you went full retard.>>144607842This must be the most obvious Spidey villain storyline nobody has ever even tried to do. Should've been done while Norman still had all his kids.>>144609727It could've been done when Norman was Iron Patriot or Gold Goblin.Shame on every pervert in this thread who wants Ben Reilly to be the Jackal again. Hasn't he suffered enough?
>>144611861>Sadly the Avenger won't use her because everyone from that run is blacklisted. It wasn't even bad it was just seen as a bootleg team.A lot of that era has since been reevaluated after things got worse in later years than anyone could have ever imagined, but a lot of older fans were really salty about that 90s Avengers era for a long time for being too 90s, and a lot of the people who worked in the Avengers office from Brevoort's time onwards tended to agree with that sentiment. Of the main cast of 90s Avengers, Crystal and Sersi seem to be the only ones who've never been back on an Avengers team in any capacity at all since. Probably partly people at Marvel just really disliking that era, but partly because higher profile Avengers heroines were available for them to use instead.
>>144608986I think Spectacular Spider-Man had the right idea with making him an amoral scientist who doesn't pass up the opportunity to create abominations for a good price. The guy was already a slimy shit without even meeting Gwen.
>>144604402>>144602961The Jackal's drive is REVENGE. He was pissed Gwen Stacy, his crush died. Much like Gwen Schizo. So he cloned her...cloned parker...cloned himself... all in revenge. He's crazy so it does make sense to him.What didnt make sense is Ben being jackal/crazy now.
>>144612824Herc has gotten a fare shake but Black Knight at best gets to cameo have people go "oh yeah he was an Avenger too". They have arguably gotten worse with it too since it's basically law that the main team has to cap/thor/Iron man or some equivalent of them.
>>144611902>>144612758To be more specific, her first story is that Magneto and Mesmero have located her as the one other mutant to have magnetic powers because Magneto's own have started to fail and he needs to steal hers, or some similar silver age nonsense. They kidnap her, dress her up in a goofy outfit and convince her she's Magneto's daughter and she plays along for five minutes before helping the X-Men defeat them. And at the end of her first story the X-Men figure out she wasn't Magneto's daughter at all, just a random mutant who Magneto's considered expendable for his plans. And later they even reveal the Magneto she met wasn't even the real one but a robot and that Mesmero was the true mastermind.The problem is that Thomas does absolutely nothing with Lorna after that. There aren't that many more issues left in the run before X-Men becomes a reprint title due to poor sales but Lorna basically says she'll join the X-Men, gets kidnapped by the Sentinels and is a background character for the other stories. IIRC she doesn't even get the Polaris name, she's just "Iceman's friend Lorna". So not a great start for her character by any means but she also was clearly not meant to replace Magneto. Honestly? People bitch about Marvel fucking around with Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver's relation with Magneto but I think Polaris is the one who should not be his kid. It was very openly stated she wasn't and a plot point even and making her his daughter has only led to her being more marginalized.
>>144612824>>144613117Deathcry got the worst shake obviously. Misunderstood and written wildly OOC and killed off, twice.Black Widow also had her entire personality from that era gutted and if she's on an Avengers team now she's basically the reverse of who she was in the 90s team.
>>144610033this is cute
>>144608340Rebirth brought back his 80s writers and reset him to that level. Powerful, but not Dr. Manhattan. There was a plot hook with Dr. Megala helping him from the shadows and him having a son with developing powers. DC did nothing with this afterwards.
>>144613188The ultimate problem with anyone being Mags' kid is that as long as Magneto isn't a villain there is no drama to be had.
>>144611048>It's a wiki, you can do it yourself.I don't have the time I am busy with other things
>>144613826Yeah the core issue is that they keep trying to reform Magneto. Why turn a really cool villain into an asshole "hero"?
Power pack
>>144613826>>144613954This. Magneto was a GREAT villain, but with Claremont in the 80s, or most people who've written him in the last 20 years, they want to make him an antihero who did nothing wrong, they want to rewrite Marvel history to pretend he didn't kill millions and didn't start a racewar because he wanted to rule the world. He's just the X-Men's friend who's slightly edgier than Wolverine and slightly more sanctimonious than Kitty now, and it's just boring and pointless, and set a pattern for so many other mutant villains getting similar treatment. Nobody at all is benefiting from being retconned into his kid, where at least when he was a villain there would be obvious conflict and drama. It seems to be only the X-Men side of Quicksilver's fans who actually want it for /theirguy/. There's no sensible narrative reason for any of these characters to want to have anything to do with him, but House of M and W&TXM created a segment of fandom that wants them all abandoning their own lives and families to follow him around as muh mutant 'royal' family.
>>144604446Probably what happens when your existence was to cover bases for copyright
>>144615220You say that, but She-Hulk was created in the same era for the same reason, and they figured out how to make her work soon enough.
>>144615146To be totally fair with Lorna, she literally has no family IIRC. Even in her first appearance she says her parents (the Danes) died in a plane crash (which was later retconned to her causing it). So I don't think she has any friends or family outside the X-Men
>>144609146Sadly I agree, I mean can anybody name more thatn 5 teen titans villains or even worse can you name more than 10 teen titans?
>>144606688>>144605037Gwenpool was a shit meme character from the start.
>>144615282I blame giving her pheromone powers. Those never work out well.
These threads never give any real ways to improve these characters
>>144616246Ideas are not enough to fix them. Solid writing does.
>>144616246In most cases, years of neglect or misuse are an impossible barrier to overcome. One good run this late in the game probably isn't going to change anything in the long run. The only real hope is a adaptation doing something that gives a character a real breakout moment, and the people working on the comics follow it and do the same thing instead of digging their heels in and fighting it.
>>144603067Amphibius > Toad
>>144602961Gotham Girl
>>144605037>>144615410Which Gwenpool comics are worth it? Just the first one?
>>144606235She needs a mini like Karnak got to reestablish her character.
This guy was my absolute favorite as a kid. It's a shame he's so underutilized or poorly utilized.
>>144603067>>144605712>>144608450Sorry frogheads, the Toad peaked herehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjISdtTsezA
>>144605037>>144606688>>144606737her pet is more successful than she is
>>144615323Her adoptive parents are still alive, IIRC. Also she didn't meet the X-Men until after high school and over the years has gotten a college degree, she's bound to have some non-mutant friends or associates.>>144615146While Wanda got the more high profile fucking over by being Mags' kid, Quicksilver had a much more destructive fucking over because it was much more low-key and spread out over decades. No shade on anyone who likes him dealing with the X-Men, but the moment they decided to keep Pietro antagonistic towards Magneto and deny him any victories over Magneto is the moment Quicksilver was destroyed. It meant he was permanently stuck getting altered because of how writers were handling a different character and his character arc never wrapping up because he wasn't popular enough for writers to have him be the lynchpin of a victory over Magneto. With Wanda the changes were so extreme that there was backlash and her being pulled from use helped people dismiss what happened and with Lorna you could make an argument that she didn't have anything going for her before or after the change, but Pietro has gotten a solid couple of decades where his only role is as a third string X-Men character who exists to be a whiny bitch who gets smacked down by his dad.>>144619884All Toad needs is for them to stick with a Ray Park-styled design, remember his full powerset, and showcase him as the physical powerhouse he should be on paper.
>>144609550They know what to do with her: she's coombait. She has no other value.
>>144606457He’s never coming back is he bros…
>>144620502>Also she didn't meet the X-Men until after high school and over the years has gotten a college degree, she's bound to have some non-mutant friends or associates.I didn't even know she had a degree. What is her major?Also yeah I guess her adoptive parents are alive. Jesus it is so depressing when you realize a large chunk of the high-profile X-Men have relatives who they were very close with but that have just vanished because modern writers cannot into civilians and cannot understand non-mutants having a role in the X-Men's lives. I thought for sure somebody had killed off Cyclops' pilot grandfather because he was such a big part of Scott's life in the Claremont run so it made me assume he'd been killed to give Scott grief.But nope, he just stopped appearing. He hasn't even been mentioned as dead off-screen. It's so fucked, I hate this "ONLY CAPES ALL THE TIME" shit that modern Marvel does.
>>144620502The thing about Toad is he's just a henchman in a villain team, most characters like that get even less than he gets. He had his moment when he finally turned against Magneto, but he didn't become a hero, nobody wanted that, he's just a villain who turned against his master, spent a long time as a deranged simp for the only girl who ever talked to him, then years later tried to level up into the leader of his own team, and even then he still got written as a jobber when his Brotherhood fought anyone. Eventually he just went back to Magneto and nobody cares about Toad enough to show or explain how or why. But X-Men in particular has a gorillion other henchmen villains even less defined than Toad, the only ones who get any attention are ones like Frenzy or Scalphunter where someone decided to turn them into Z-list X-Men allies.
>>144602961>named "Jackal">resembles a goblin
>>144620502People like to counter-argue that Byrne, Bendis and other Avengers writers would have done a lot of damage to Wanda even without the Magneto/X-book stuff, but House of M was the big one that almost destroyed her, one of the things she's never fully recovered from, and that one couldn't have happened without her being retconned into being related to Magneto, nor would the modern brownwashing in the comics have happened without changes to the twins' backstory being imposed on them by writers giving backstory to Magneto, so it's obvious why fans are pushing back against it all, while a lot of X-Men fandom still react to the pushback by pretending to be oblivious to the existence of Avengers comics or the MCU, and insisting nobody would even know who Wanda was without those X-Men stories and cartoons she was only in because "Magneto's kids", like fans should be grateful for her getting tied to him.With Pietro it's more insidious because he actually has an X-Men fanbase that say they like him as a character, but all they really care about is him being Magneto's son, and they're willing to tolerate and even embrace really drastic changes being made by adaptations, even making him an unrepentant villain in two cartoons, so long as he's Magneto's mutant son, because that's all he is to them, it's the whole point of him in their minds, and the comics locking him in a decades long cycle of abuse and failure under Magneto's shadow aren't a problem, it's what they want.With Lorna it's a retcon that happened recently enough fans can't pretend it was always canon like some do with the twins, so there's pushback from people rejecting an obvious retcon, and increasingly pushback from people who actually like Lorna and are starting to see how it's not helping her at all, it's in fact diminishing her into just being Magneto's supporting character.
>>144622400The one character that unambiguously is Magneto's daughter manages to stay dead because it would derail Magneto too much.
>>144603005Why does she even stay near gotham? Why not just go full ocean villain? Hell she could probably have become one of Aquaman’s buddies, since she’s not actually evil.
>>144622400There's Polaris fans?
All of them
>>144603005Basically
>>144611947>Starting with: why the fuck is he jackal-themed?Isn't that basically the case with all Spiderman villains?There's no real reason for Vulture and Rhino to not just be guys in powered armor and a jetpack respectively.
>>144602961All of them.
>>144624604>"I'M GONNA HIT MY WIFE AGAIN!"
Since they aren't standard capes you would need some world building autist to go at them like Gillen did the Eternals.
It sucks that his best characterization comes from like a total of 50 pages Peter David has written over the course of his career but it just completely blows any other version of the character out of the water. If Magneto is gonna be a good guy now I’d like to see Pietro as his replacement. Not a total villain, but just a guy who’s an antagonistic asshole to the X-Men and Avengers.
>>144624349Vulture has wings to fly and his nose looks like a beak. If not a Vulture, he'd be another bird.
>>144624911If he went to join the circus instead of the Avengers, he'd probably be happier.
>>144624842Better to get someone who'd work with what's already there than some like that who'd just discard and change things to fit the story they're telling. And Gillen being Gillen, half the characters would suddenly be gay, too.>>144624911We've had at least three or four attempts to make Quicksilver a genuine committed villain, and he's just awful at it every time.
>>144625293You just know he'd accidentally end up with the Circus of Crime again.
>>144622556Let's be honest, for narrative reasons Anya is the only kid Magneto needs, and her being dead is important to that narrative. He doesn't really gain anything by anyone else getting retconned into being related to him, and all of those characters suffer for it.>>144622640People liked her enough to vote her onto an X-Men lineup nobody at Marvel wanted her to be on. You sometimes see commissioned fanart of her, which is always a sign a character has fans. And there was an anon here sometimes who was a Polaris fan that kept trying to pick fights with Wanda fans over who was Magneto's REAL daughter, and didn't seem to understand the average Wanda fan doesn't WANT her to have anything to with him.
>>144624842Cosmic characters in general seem to be hard to write especially when comes to showing an alien culture. A lot of writers sink when you ask them ask them to do an alien culture. Same reason so many fantasy settings still lean on germanic fairy tales.
>>144615146Was he a great villain? Pre claremont mangeto was boring.I mean generally when nearly every media for decades plays into it and when the actors and casual-driven stuff does too..it tends to stick an association.>>144620502I dunno outside of son of M in the 00s he really didn't. It probably helps that he had already been sidelined by the avengers books beforehand and just paired with the inhumans randomly being wallapeper for about a decade. You can definitely argue wanda didn't benefit from it, but without the magneto thing quicksilver would just be there in crowd shots with the inhumans>>144622400I would argue so. See hank, clint, vision, simon and janet. I dunno, without hose of m there would still be disassembled, and that was just as bad a thing for her and had she not been made its perpetrator she likely would have been a victim and if not then she would have gotten dragged into civil war (if she wasn't depowered when they were culling mutant characters anyways). The twins being browner just happens due to them being romani, it also happened to the al ghuls over at dc. Its just broader internet trends. I dunno that the retcon happened only due to legal reasons is largely why most people don't treat it seriously. She would be known come age of ultron, but probably not before, then again, I do maintain she likely would have shown up in evo and maybe wataxm even without that tie.I dunno, I think it comes from the fact he actually appears in a lot of x-stuff and gets a pretty equal amount of attention in it compared to avengers stuff. It might also be because avengers media always sidelines him. He has never been in an avengers cartoon even as a cameo while wanda has been in two plus a cameo. His one appearance in an avengers film kilsl him. Or how he didn't show up for a decade in avengers.Honestly I see the opposite. I have never met anyone that knows polaris being magneto's daughter is recent. There is pushback with her potrayal
>>144603698Hey, PAD writes her well. Literally no one else, but that's more than a lot of characters.>>144624911Why is PAD the only writer that cares about pietro and lorna?
>>144625811He achieves FTL travel by riding a magnetic beam from Earth.
>>144625844That's just power wanking. He was just doom lite without a cool tie to the leader character.
>>144625726>People liked her enough to vote her onto an X-Men lineup nobody at Marvel wanted her to be on. You sometimes see commissioned fanart of her, which is always a sign a character has fans. And there was an anon here sometimes who was a Polaris fan that kept trying to pick fights with Wanda fans over who was Magneto's REAL daughter, and didn't seem to understand the average Wanda fan doesn't WANT her to have anything to with him.I guess I just never see any Polaris discussion anywhere except some mentions when Magneto or his family are discussed. Like nothing that's about her and not about her as a supporting character to somebody else.
>>144606457Red Hood has the Punisher problem of the fact that any villain without enough plot armor to be safe is too unimportant to kill.
>>144625861Hey, im sure people talk about her in relation to havok too.
>>144625913A relationship that hasn't existed in the comics in almost 20 years.
>>144625942Hey werent they a couple during brubaker's run?
>>144625960that was 15 years ago, anon...
>>144625811>Was he a great villain? Pre claremont mangeto was boring.Claremont Magneto is boring as soon as he stops being a villain, and doesn't stop being boring until Claremont's last story in the 90s.>without the magneto thing quicksilver would just be there in crowd shots with the inhumansArguing he'd still be happily married and retired isn't a great argument for turning him into Magneto's son being a good thing.>See hank, clint, vision, simon and janet. I dunno, without hose of m there would still be disassembledWhether she was a victim of Disassembled or just retired for years after it, those are things she could have recovered and bounced back from a lot more easily than House of M, which turned her into a pariah for a whole other fandom.>The twins being browner just happens due to them being romaniWhich they weren't originally. That only happened in the 1980s when someone gave Magneto's wife a backstory, which in turn got imposed on Wanda and Pietro.>I dunno that the retcon happened only due to legal reasons is largely why most people don't treat it seriously.And them being related to Magneto only happened because he and Pietro had white hair. If it happened in the Internet age people would take it as seriously as Byrne later trying to make Sandman and Norman Osborn related. It was always just fanfic-tier nonsense.>he actually appears in a lot of x-stuffAs was said above, several of those adaptations changed everything about him, or even make him a villain. It's barely the same character in anything but name. And in the actual comics he's not an important player in X-Men stuff, he's relegated to B- or C-tier titles that might be well-liked but don't really matter, and don't always sell that well.>I have never met anyone that knows polaris being magneto's daughter is recent.It's come up several times here, some people are really opposed to it.
>>144618530unbelievable gwenpool and the two doujins are all that is worth reading
Famously killed off because the writers didn't know what to do with her when the real Jean came back.
>>144615146The greatest irony is trying to redeem Magneto underscores the whole point of him being a holocaust survivor, is that he became the same kind of racial supremacist that tried to kill him and his family.
>>144626176That's not really what happened, anon...
>>144626206>underscoresundercuts, I meant
>>144626206Claremont immediately leapt from revealing Magneto was a Holocaust survivor to having him quit being a bad guy all in the same issue, he didn't really play around with him being a villain who's become what he hated for long.By now it's like writers and a lot of fans genuinely think he can't be a villain BECAUSE he was in the Holocaust, and anyone he fights is some heckin' Nazi who had it coming.
>>144624349At least Vulture flies and Rhino charges at things.What the fuck do Jackals have to do with cloning?
>>144625726I refuse to believe Polaris fans exist in the wild. They feel like purely speculative, like fandom cryptids
>>144626032Damm.>>144626086Eh i liked him having to try to make amends with the new mutants. And JMD's recent mini was phenomenal. I do think that after he reverted to villainy he shouldn't have been reverted back, but Morrison did is so cartoonisly that writers went full force against it.I mean that he wouldn't get any usage. And desu, their marriage would have likely been sabotaged to make room for cyrstal/johnny like it was in the 80s. He would just not get a place to show up.I dunno, pym is still getting shit for one moment.Originally they were romani, then they were just adopted by them but kids of the whizzer. And as much as roy thomas wishes, I doubt anyone else would have kept that backstory.Sure, but since that only overwrote one that only happened cause pietro and whizzer had speed powers..it was on the same pair.I meant comics too. 250 issues. Compared to wanda's 55 its..a lot more. And its basically only 20 less than his overall appearances in avengers books.I mean more so outside of here. The time I brought it to a friend that reads a decent amount of stuff he was surprised. I guess it comes with her looking like green wanda and having mangeto's powers.
>>144626693Oh didnt continue the third one fuck. While its true she wouldn't havebeen a pariah in another book...its also likely she would have been sidelined for longer. Or what happened to firestar. Where she could have just gotten folded into the x-books more without that aspect ironically enough
>>144603067X-men misuses a lot of its large cast.
>>144619816During Marvel vs. DC they wanted to swap him and She-Hulk since they felt each was kind of redundant in their respective universes. But they quickly realized it would be a giant legal headache and dropped it.
>>144627338I assume she hulk would have been renamed?
>>144627975Probably not. The point was swapping the characters entire so She-Hulk and J'onn would have literally been left in the DCU and MU respectively at the end of the story.
>>144628020Wonder how it'd work.
>>144627338Good thing Marvel doesn't use their bald green alien cop who has a bunch of different powers regularly then.
How many times has she switches from Magnetos daughter to not his daughter? And how many times has she switched from pure mutant, to mutant with magic powers, to her mutation is magic, to just pure magic?
>Oh we got the X-Men movie rights?>FUCKING DROP THEM>EVEN FROM THE COMICS WE DONT NEED TO MAKE THEM RELEVANT ANYMORE
>>144629663Once. Currently she is being treated as Magneto's daughter, but not bio related which is the strange since her relationship to Magneto would have been entirely negative. Maybe it evens out how she's taken over Billy and Tommy's biological parents role or something.
>>144629699Who thought it was a good idea?
>>144626176No?
>>144629663>Wasnt mangeto's daugther from 1964 to 1982>Stopped begin magneto's daughter in 2014>Circa trial of magneto in2021 they began acting as if they had retconned it back even tho they haven't.Basically just twice.The mutant thing I think was just>Original just has weak bad luck powers>In the 70s her powers get tied to demon chtlon and chaos magic, specifics change but this is constiet>bendis changes it to just reality warping that she thought was magic>This is retconned to just be the external life force and the prior explanation still works>In 2015 she is retconned as not a mutant and her powers come from being from a lineage of witches/warlocks.
>>144602961First, name some that they do know what to do with.
>>144631987Kek
Can a Molecular Rearranger affect Thor's hammer?
>>144616246I think the easiest way to improve Jess would be to get rid of her baby and make her 12x more likable. In every series past her first one, she's just...unpleasant. She's never recovered from that Godawful 2016 run.
>>144632555Her baby is now fully grown and Hydras so it all worked out.
>>144632602Oh really? God I just can't keep up, what year is it?
>>144603648Can someone explain this one to me?
>>144632720That one book i think?
>>144622400>looks like a green wanda>has magnetos powers>shouldn't be related to eitherWhat
>>144605712Ironically Liefeld wrote the best Toad: basically hijacks the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants brand and becomes it's leader, with them fucking everyone's shit up left and right
>>144622640Lorna's extremely popular but Marvel's always had it out for her and Havok because "NOT MAH FOUNDING X-MEN".
>>144626176No, she got killed off because Bob Harras despised how everyone took her side in the collapse of her marriage and Claremont kept fucking up the obvious out of her being Jean with amnesia, because he was THAT fucking salty that Shooter brought Jean back and Harras, unlike Nocenti and Simonson, didn't give a shit about pampering Claremont and his ego.
>>144633778My dude. Lorna's original origin was that she was a normal college student who Iceman knew who secretly had magnetic powers (and green hair). She was kidnapped by Mesmero and Magneto and told she was Magneto's daughter and they gave her a costume and told her she was QUEEN OF THE EVIL MUTANTS now.Turns out that whole thing was a ruse. Magneto didn't give two shits about her and only needed her because his powers were fading and he could only find one other magnetism-based mutant in the world. So he needed her as a way to restore himself. They also EXPLICITLY reveal that the villains LIED about Lorna being related to Magneto at the end of that story and then everyone just moves on.
Just retire her at this point.
>>144632555The only time Drew was interesting when she WASN'T Spider-Woman. Fans much prefer Julia Carpenter, who basically has none of the bullshit that made Drew such a failure as a character but Brevoort DESPISES Julia, so we are stuck with Drew, who only has a child because like the case with Eric O'Grady, they think that grafting shit from the better version of the character onto the version no one likes, they can trick people into liking the version no one likes.
>>144633961>Lorna's extremely popularFucking WHERE
>>144633995Claremont making her a P.I was a great idea, but unfortunately Bendis stole that idea for Jessica Jones and now Drew can't get it again because all the zoomers think Bendis invented the idea.
>>144633778Why does everyone say she looks like Wanda? Her costume has always been far closer to Storm than Scarlet Witch. And what does it matter if she has the same powers as Magneto? Lots of mutants have overlapping powers; should Emma Frost, Jean Grey, and Professor X all be related because they're psychics?
>>144634936She has the exact same tiara.Psychic is a common power. Magnetism isnt.
>>144626515i guessed The Gifted show might have spawned new ones
>>144633995>they think that grafting shit from the better version of the character onto the version no one likes, they can trick people into liking the version no one likes.Marvel LOVES doing that. They think they're so clever when they keep packing shit into a character in a desperate attempt to make them relatable.
>>144627338in that case Vision would have felt redundant then>>144628942who?
>>144634621>Bendisso sad that so many bad things go back to this fat bald cuck
>>144636854I mean the real ultimate villain is Quesada.
>>144636693Also Vision. The Timely Comics one that Roy Thomas originally wanted to add, but was told to make a new android one instead. Since he became really popular, worked for the best.
>>144637189Huh really?
>>144636983He never did act alone.
>>144638433But him gaining power allowed him to override all the existing policies and slowly fill creative spots with his buddies.
Most of Hulk's rogues gallery
>>144632720They revived I Hate Fairyland after its initial run and ending to put the aged character back in the spotlight. It ended up with lots of cliffhanger then abandoned plots but showed signs of the main character having matured (very slightly) from her experiences over the years. Then she is killed by a time displaced version of herself that just ensures they aren't aware of any development since before the first series, and then just launch into some anthology stories that didn't need the character to die in the first place.
Any superhero family character
>>144640257That's a bit broad
>>144602961Nightwing, there may be such thing as a good Dick Robin story, or a good Dick Bat story, or a good Dick Graysoj story, but there's no such thing as a good Noghtwing story.
>>144640776Idk
>>144636165Her bathing suit, cape, and tiara have always always looked like Storm, or more properly Storm usually looks like Polaris, and how often writers reuse a power is irrelevant to whether or not characters are related.
>>144633991Really?
Punisher
>>144629699And that's a good thing
>>144639185You might as well add Iron Man's to this as well
>>144645217Some of them end up as Masters of Evil fodder, so it is okay.
Any non-greek themed member of Wonder Woman's rogues gallery
>>144626693>Originally they were romaniNo they weren't. Originally Wanda and Pietro were just white Slavic eastern Europeans from a country Stan and Jack made up, and originally they didn't even have a last name revealed. The same storyline that retconned Magneto into being their father also came up with them being adopted and raised by the Maximoffs, retconning away the childhood we'd previously seen Wanda remember, being raised by Bova. Then in the 80s, someone decided Magda was a gypsy, so suddenly Wanda and Pietro were half-gypsy, and this ended up being the one thing that didn't get swept away in 2014-2015. And now we have casuals assuming they were always meant to be gypsies right from their debut in 1964 onwards and acting like they're "fixing a mistake" by bullying Marvel into brownwashing them. It's awful, and nobody who actually likes these characters wants this.
>>144632602>Her baby is now fully grownThis is just the set up for a modern day version of Carol and Marcus, isn't it?
>>144634936>>144636165>>144642257The costume Lorna wore from Brubaker's X-Men and kept going back to until a year or two into Krakoa had a headdress that was a green version of Wanda's, that's the costume Lorna wore in the only X-Men cartoon where she had a notable recurring role. The definitive modern image people have in their minds of what Polaris looks like is "green Wanda", and only people who actually read older comics know any better. Lorna's original, Steranko-designed costume and headdress didn't really resemble Wanda OR Storm, she had her own look, but most people only know the modern costumes. Her current look is just Green Female Magneto, which isn't an improvement.
>>144645217The two big problems with a lot of Iron Man villains are firstly how writers keep introducing new versions of them instead of working with the ones that already exist, and secondly how many of them are just utterly outclassed by the hero they're supposed to fight because he has 20 to 30 years of upgrades and power creep on them, and they're usually still the same as they were back when they were created.There are more than ten Crimson Dynamos and most of them were just random jobbers made up for one story and never seen again. Even the ones that are just Russian superheroes are sometimes bad when IRL geopolitics means Russia Bad.
>>144646271Well "magic" and "runs away fast" seem like powers you would assign superpowered Gypsies based on stereotypes. Also there is a sneaky reference to it in 1979, even if the reveal itself happens in 1982.
>>144645217Iron man has a bad rouges gallery.
>>144646741>Guy in armor>Guy in armor>Businessmen of evil>Guy in armor>Fu Manchu at home>Cool mercenary>mangled ex-girlfriend>Various Avengers hand-me-downs>Guy in armor
>>144646843Madame masque, mandarin and iron monger and maybe hammer are the only interesting ones.
>>144639236Is this a joke?
>>144647010Some important people first met Iron Man, and went on to do great things.
>>144602961the question. They made him an SJW ninja before just saying fuck it and killing him off and making him a chick. only the cartoons get him right. if you hate Steve Ditko and his politics so much then just make him Rorschach and have him satirize ditko objectivist philosophy.
>>144646509>Well "magic" and "runs away fast" seem like powers you would assign superpowered Gypsies based on stereotypes.That's just you trying to assign logic to a retcon and make it sound like it was always planned from day one. The truth is Stan and Jack created the twins with no intent of them having any backstory beyond the few panels we saw in their debut story. For characters just created to fight the X-Men for a few issues, they've come a long way, but a lot of the things done to them that people seem to think they were created for, have nothing to do with anything their creators planned.>Also there is a sneaky reference to it in 1979, even if the reveal itself happens in 1982.To the Magneto retcon, yes, but there's nothing in the 1979 story even implying they actually ARE gypsies, just that they were adopted by gypsies.This isn't like the Al Ghuls, who someone mentioned above as characters who probably should've always looked darker than they originally did. This was some idiot who had nothing to do with the creation of Wanda and Pietro taking two white characters almost 20 years after they were created and imposing this change on them, probably without even thinking about them, when they came up with the idea of Magda being a gypsy, something that's not mentioned once in the 1979 story.
>>144647225And then they still had pale skin until late into the 2010.
>>144644224No, anon. Dropping characters who've been around since the 60s entirely just because X-Men fans are seething about them is stupid and petty. Nobody's arguing that they need to have their own book all the time, but pretending they don't exist at all and stopping people from using them at all is just petty.
>>144633778Retconning a character into being related to a more popular and more important character is never a good thing, it dooms them to being defined by that relation. They're not their own character anymore, they're just that more popular character's relative, and there'll be people wanting their whole life to revolve around that more popular character.It's not something you should really want to happen to any character you like. Unfortunately Marvel and DC have always had too many writers who think any things that MIGHT be connected MUST be connected, whether it's a good idea or not, and even when only a turbo autist would even think they might be connected in the first place.
>>144646271>acting like they're "fixing a mistake" by bullying Marvel into brownwashing themThe weird part is assuming they have to be brown because they're gypsies. Pic related is a gyppo and doesn't look particularly brown beyond having the type of tan you'd expect from someone who lives in Florida.
>>144633991Nah she's cool
>>144648067Do you have any examples that don't live in the sun?
>>144648067>The weird part is assuming they have to be brown because they're gypsies.What do you expect from people basing their entire knowledge on what gypsies look like off Disney's Hunchback movie?Apparently the USA has the largest gypsy population in the world and nobody even notices they're there because most of them look white.
>>144648946Therr are darker ones. But in the US they aren't considered dark cause there's darker people all around.
>>144634621>Jessica JonesSpeaking of that, Purple Man is an absolutely useless character. One of the Marvel's most boring villains and the best they could do with him to try to make him interesting is turning him a generic domestic abuser/stalker allegory straight out of Lifetime channel thus permanently attaching him to that shitty Bendis OC.Daredevilfags always citing him as one of the Daredevil's good villains just makes me laugh.
>>144649536How do you feel about the Owl?
>>144649754Another crime boss in New York, but at least he has a somewhat fun gimmick. Not great not terrible.The terrible ones would be Spidey's mobster guys like Silvermane and Hammerhead.
>>144649770I like Hammerhead.
>>144649780Maybe I just specifically hate Spider-Man tangling with the mob. I always found those stories pretty boring. Which is weird, because I like it when, say, Batman or Punisher does it.
>>144649798I can understand that. A lot of Spider-Man's appeal is him figuring out how to beat someone's gimmick and mobsters usually just have "there are a lot of us".
Only reason they exist is so people will stop complaining that Batman only beats up poor people
>>144649798Really? Ive always loved spidey vs mobster stories
What would you even do with polaris?
>>144650389Sex
>>144650319>so people will stop complaining that Batman only beats up poor peopleIt's funny how mad that observation makes people
>>144650389with her nothingwith her sister on the other hand...
I feel outside of claw and Man Ape there aren't that many interesting Black Panther villains
>>144607395>Beware the BatmanDeserved more seasons desu
>>144607749Glove on left hand, no glove on right hand.
>>144607842This, but is Jackal still alive? Where is he? Last time he came back it was actually someone else pretending to be him.
>>144605861Wait a second, I thought Macendale was the one villain he forgot to resurrect. Who's that in the Hobgoblin costume?
>>144649536>Purple Man is an absolutely useless characterhe got a good EMH episode tho
>>144650319Have they actually showed up since then?"Everyone other rich family in Gotham is actually part of a secret society that has always controlled its crime and Batman has only been allowed to 'play hero' because they thought it was a fun distraction" was a cool premise.
>>144651596does he even have any besides those and killer monger?
>>144653675>EMHTo be fair, EMH is a magical thing we didn't deserve that managed to make something good out of Secret Invasion and make Carol Danvers likable.
>>144653921Man marvel was on a roll during that period and then they stopped being able to make good cartoons.
>>144650480Based>>144650860Why not both?
>>144650319Nah, they are Synder pets.
>>144605037Now that one makes me sad. If Marvel ever becomes good again at least she can literally say my writing got better which is why my personality is back to normal.
>>144650486>repeat a shitty take you heard online>people who actually know what they're talking about call you a retardIt's simple but it works.
>>144655579She even gives that explanation in her original run.
>Less hot than MJ>Not Peter's true love>Failed as a Spider man hero>Failed as a Spider man villain>Female, but otherwise not a minority unless she's not straightMost pointless Marvel character ever.
>>144656257>Less hot than MJYou couldn't have started with something a bit more believable?
>>144656302What are you, gay?
>>144647225Brown Doctor Doom
>>144653683Nah that's fucking lame Better off a Society of old money that likes to think they're in control but they're really just a bunch of inheritors of someone elses fortune
>>144656257Her main role is to be Peters tease/rebound whenever the editorals decide to break up Pete and MJ for the 67th time
>>144657471It happens in fanart.
>>144650319They'll be in The Batman 2 hopefully.
>>144602961Why not just leave him dead?
