Why doesn’t he or really any of the other “heroes” in marvel ever help mutants?
>>144642671other shit is happening
>>144642671Because the sentient virus that has infected everyone who isn't a mutant hates mutants because it can't infect them.
It's marvel, right? So probably racism. Or I dunno, whatever buzzword.
not everything revolves around mutants
>>144642671Mutants have always been an allegory for Jews. Ergo, everyone is antisemitic.
Maybe muggas should stop making trouble for themselves and then cry to be saved
Branding, Mutants handle Mutant problems
>>144642671>mutants keep to themselves and like to deal with their own problems>it's usually a bigger mess than if it were the same problem with nonmutants>heroes have pitched in from time to time>x-titles prefer not using nonmutant heroes or portray them as antagonistic towards the x-men
>>144643011until that one time some teenager mutants blew up a school bus and Tony Stark decided to become Hitler
>>144643132Only Mutant involved was the fat guy
>>144642671All team stories are separate until their not for team ups or drama
>>144643366I don't know how they played it in the movies but in the comic it was 100% a mutant conflict that killed a bunch of kids.
Because if they did then all the mutant drama would be solved.
Because the mutants need to be reset to status Quo again. because apparently, you can't write a story without them suffering
>>144642671>Help mutant team A>Mutant team B has decided that you are against them>Now you have to deal with enemies who do shit like mind wipes for petty matters on the fly>Could've just stayed home, but now you have domestic mutant terrorists after you cause you helped the other mutants that didn't believe in every single belief team B did
>>144642671> Yeah, and how come all these guys run around in brightly-colored costumes??Dude, it's comics. Why doesn't Batman kill Joker, why doesn't Reed just cure cancer, etc., etc. Because comics.
>>144643486>>144643583>>144643630These three are technically correct, but I prefer to imagine Captain America is in fact antisemitic.
>>144642671One of Cap's biggest solo events was him going up against the government's anti mutant programs and freeing a bunch of captured X-men. Read more comics before you post you dumb faggot
Because competent X-writers try to keep Muties self-contained to their own narrative.It’s why a lot of people want X-Men to be set in their own universe from the rest of Marve.
>>144642671Because comic books are called X-Men, not Captain America.
>>144644415>>144644420Remember Punisher Kills Marvel where he puts all the mutants on the moon and nukes them? Amazing.
>>144644488What the fuck does that have to do with the Original Secret Empire. Also Cap didn't put the mutants on the moon in that, Punisher lures the X-men and the Brotherhood there. I repeat; read some comics before you post you dumb faggot
>>144642671That's exactly my problem with xmen being considered a part of the general Marvel universe.
>>144644545>What the fuck does that have to do with the Original Secret EmpireIt doesn't? Jesus dude I just remembered a funny one-shot calm the fuck down.
>>144642671The Avengers helped during the Orchis genocide and are recruiting Storm in an upcoming comic, so I assume they'll play a more active role going forward
>>144644597Until they stop caring and go back to fighting Cosmic threats and world wide villains.
>>144642671Because they're either too busy fighting Ultron or any time they do try and help mutants tell them to "fuck off we handle our own"
>>144642671>Apocalypse>Magneto>Emma Frost>Exodus>Juggernaut>Mastermind>Proteus>Sinister>etc etcbecause they're villains, and the Avengers don't help unreformed villainsheck OP you might as well ask why the "heroic" X-Men resurrected dead villains who are known killers of mutants, like Shinobi Shaw, or who gaslit them and caused enormous problems down the line, like Wyngardthe answer is because they're the shitbird squad
>>144642671because mutants are fucking annoying.
Because if they do the mutants tell them to fuck off
>>144643473Microbe was the only mutant involved unless you count Namorita.
>>144645071So you admit there was mutant involment after trying to hide it for so long.
>hero does anything that doesn't involve mutants>must mean they don't care about them because they're not waiting on them hand and foot and constantly throwing their lives on the line for them 24/7Because damn near everything mutants get involved in, it's made about them. Captain America's current run is about how he's basically charged with keeping mutants safe instead of, you know, doing something revolving around something more directly related to him, that's why people don't like mutant matters creeping into anything.
>>144645071she's the dumb fuck that smashed his face into a school bus, so she definitely counts
What exactly are they supposed to do?Is Iron Man supposed to give them his technology?Is Black Panther supposed to hand them Vibranium?Is Spiderman supposed to let them run a train on his wife.?
I never see the mutants offering Hulk sanctuary from the government, so I don't see why he should bother to do the same.
>>144642671The only way to help a mutant is with a bullet to their head.
>>144644393>kid on the cover is actually a young Steve Rogers enjoying observing what's happening in the camps
>>144645386lol
>>144645345The X-men have more often than not tried to ally with the government against the Hulk, the one time I can think of where they intervened on the Hulk's side was because Banner had the knowledge to build a machine that could help Prof X
I save humans, not muggas.
>>144644415/thread
>>144642671It's like a white person trying to help a black person. They tell you they don't need "your" kind of help then they get mad at you and start screaming you're racist because you think they can't help themselves. After you hear this a couple times you realize the hassle isn't worth it & you go "fuck it" they wanna fix their own problems without help let em
>>144642671They use to plenty of times. The X-men were an integrated part of the Marvel universe. They use to be on different, none mutant teams, some were once villains/friends to other heroes, they use to team up quite a bit in the past, and generally were a part of the superhero community. The X-men have unironically gone completely backwards in their mission in recent years.
>>144642671Mutants (more specifically the X-men) seclude themselves in their radicalist training bunker in the woods in upstate New York, don't reach out for help when they're being attacked, and then blame all humans for the crimes of a few humans. Mutants are assholes, not because they're mutants, but because they have an unnecessary messiah complex while at the same time they abandon actual morals if it falls in line for their lust for power and relevance. Screw them.
>>144642671Because mutants are overly retarded recidivist assholes are the harbingers of their own sorrow 90% of the time.
>>144646960>be mutant >Mutation is bad, and you need help >x-men Start doing their thing >Suddenly, friends hate you, and you lose your job. In the government, start getting rid of your assistance >I now hate the x men
>>144642671desu i wouldnt help them either
I really don't see how Spiderman can convince anyone to like Mutants when most people don't even like him.
>>144642671You can't help mutants. They don't want your help, and tell you to leave them alone to handle their own problems. Then they screech at you for not being there to handle all their problems. You try to help them by helping them not be mutants any more, and let them lead normal lives, and that's not good enough for them either.
You know, in the show Cap too was trying to find out who was behind the Genosha attack
>>144645328YesYesAnd yesThey demand all that
>>144642671Because mutants are worthless
>>144642845I can't tell if this is real or not.
>>144643630>Why doesn't Batman kill Joker,Because he doesn't want to set a precedent that he can get away with it and become the Punisher.The better question is why not one else in gotham hasn't killed the Joker. Just shoot the fucker while he's in custody or something. No one would convict the person who killed the Joker.
>>144647791Didn't Miguel O'Hara make everyone into an immortal space-faring mutant at the end of the 2099 run?
>>144645071Nitro was taking Mutant Growth Hormone, a substance that among others the Vanisher, Telford Porter, was supplying on the black market at that time, in order to enhance his powers.Telford Porter would become a key member of X-Force - along with several minors - in its incarnation as Utopia's wetworks squad who simply murdered any non-mutants Scott Summers disagreed with, 18 months after the publication of the Civil War issue in which Nitro attacked Stamford, itself published about 48 months after the X-Men discovered Vanisher was supplying MGH to dangerous criminals, pre-M-Day.Given that most MGH (depending on the ultimate source) became worthless after M-Day because the magic powers of the genes were switched off and so was everything they produced - yes, really - it seems like the X-Men no longer had a problem with notorious drug baron Telford Porter being on a team with minors sent to do bad murders. In terms of the actual timeline in-universe, it's maybe as much as a year between Vanisher's drug days and M-Day, and a couple of months between that and Utopia at most.It's true that since Civil War was post M-Day, Vanisher perhaps wasn't the ultimate supplier of the MGH Nitro was using (which came to him from the new CEO of Damage Control), but it was still MGH, a designer street drug whose arrival and general use began after the explosion in mutant numbers which led to District X and Genosha. And since only (officially, though that's total crap when you actually count them) only 198 mutants retained their powers after M-Day, the likelihood is that MGH was ultimately derived either from a contemporary X-Man or from a mutant subsequently invited to join the X-Men, like Porter. So if he was in fact supplying his own body material to produce MGH - yeah, strong chance it was an actual X-Man who caused Civil War. A fight the X-Men suspiciously chose to stay out of, despite inviting all the likely suppliers of that MGH to join their cult within months.
>>144645328>Black Panther gives them vibranium>Dr Rao declares that it could be used to synthesize a mutant "cure">X-Men declare war on Wakanda again
>>144644597For now they are anyway. But who knows how long it'll last.>>144645064Well that's one reason, another is branding and that they tend to make it all about themselves. >>144646869Which is a real mistake that writers and editors should fix but probably won't. >>144647688Oh I know that.
>>144642671The privilege mutants can defend for themselves.
>>144642845Like in AOT?
>>1446480232099 is like the 30th-31th Century in DC, no one knows what is canon or not due to the countless reboots and relaunches.
>>144642671Cause nine times out of ten they get told “this is a mutant affair, piss off” and then get attacked by the X-men until they leave or the plot reminds the X-men they have more important shit to worry about. That last tenth of the time, Wolverine won’t even wait for the first word to drop before trying to shove his adamantium claws in someone’s face.And then much later once the hero has helped and left, the X-men will brood how nobody likes them and how they don’t understand why the other heroes act like assholes to them whenever they show up.
>>144648784Yeah you'd think they'd learn by now not to do that.
>>144648784>Wolverine won’t even wait for the first word to drop before trying to shove his adamantium claws in someone’s face.
>>144648862>The mutant cries out as he strikes you
in the 90s and early 2000s the X-Men office tried to enforce a segregation of 'their' characters from other books.pure office politics.
>>144644832Sinister and Juggernaut aren't mutants
>>144648942In the 80s, Claremont tried to stop other writers and other books leeching off his success by restricting access to X-Men characters for guest stars, unless the other book was written by someone who was also an editor he couldn't really say no to. By the early 90s things turned around and Marvel were happy to milk the X-Men like a cash cow, especially putting Wolverine in other books.In the 2000s the big change was less about the X-office restricting access to characters, and more about writers playing up "us against them" division between the X-Men and other Marvel heroes, having them get all antagonistic and uppity towards everyone else for not solving all the X-Men's problems, yet aggressively rejecting help whenever it's offered.
>>144645163Man I recently read the old New Warriors. They're better than this. She still dead?
>>144642671because their definition of "help" is genocide
>>144646960I love how pretty much every super team will share information with each other. Like Silver Surfer will fly across the entire goddamn universe to update everyone about Thanos being dead/not dead but the x-men basically keep every thing they deal with a closely guarded secret that invariably ends up leading to huger problems. >>144646869When you break it down, Mutants were never the problem. It was ALWAYS the x-men themselves. Put any mutant on an Avengers team and they're terrific team players loved by the masses. As soon as they punt on an X shaped belt buckle they not only become assholes but act like the victim when they're the assholes.
>>144647920It's real, but that sentient virus got a mutant gf and has nothing to do with mutant hate for aaaaages.And it was dumb when introduced.
>>144648996That fact that Claremont tried that is truly admirable. Writers playing up the "us against them" division between the X-Men and other Marvel heroes is something Editoral should have shut down immediately. And I hope the MCU avoids doing that which has caused so much damage to them being in a shared universe. >>144649308The X-Men have a transparency problem they desperately need to fix.>>When you break it down, Mutants were never the problem. It was ALWAYS the x-men themselves. Put any mutant on an Avengers team and they're terrific team players loved by the masses. As soon as they punt on an X shaped belt buckle they not only become assholes but act like the victim when they're the assholes.At worst if any Mutant is on a Avengers team, they will be divisive to the masses.And even those who put on the X shaped belt buckle and don't become assholes become less likable to some extent.Writers/Editoral need to accept that in universe the X-Men are the real problem.
>>144642671>Why doesn’t he or really any of the other “heroes” in marvel ever help mutants?Real talk, is this take coming from comics that came pre-Quesada, or Quesada-era onwards?
>>144649308Kamala should end up returning to or forming a new Avengers team.
>>144649402Even into the 90s the mutant hate thing wasn't nearly as pronounced as it is now. Yeah you had some sentinels, yeah you had some hate groups but it kind of felt like the average joe on the street had a more ..."guarded" opinion on the matter. Like if you asked them what they thought of the situation they would probably try to dance around the issue a bit where they WANT to live and let live but either only know mutants indirectly from the news or just having a sensible degree of fear.
>>144648862Born 2 Kill, nothin personnel
>>144649402Claremont was cancer its one of the few black pills trannies on nu /co/ refuse to accept.
It's honestly astounding just how out of touch with reality X book writers are. They want to play up the fear and hated angle but also have super "badass" epic moments where characters display obscene levels of destructive power. They want to have the X-men tell everyone to butt out but then complain when they do all the while ignoring that the X-men rarely help out with Avenger or Fantastic Four problems too. Any time they did team up Wolverine or someone else would almost universally with out fail start shit with someone for any and every imagined slight. They'll harbor every enemy but hold grudges against all their friends. Stories aren't about saving innocents or people from huge ordeals or threats but picking fights with randos over petty insults and cause thousands in property damage but never own up to any responsibility. You know half the problems they faced could probably have been avoided if one or two of them stuck around after the fight to help with a broom.
I remember Thor showed up to help during the Morlock Massacre back in the day. Which really shows how much the X-Men are fucking whiny fucks. You've got the X-Men living in a mansion whining about how the world owes them, while the Morlocks are living in the fucking sewers getting shit on by everyone.>>144648964But they are unreformed villains.At least, Sinister is. Juggernaut's kind of iffy. He was on the X-Men and was good for a while, the Excalibur and the Thunderbolts but I'm not really sure where he stands after Fear Itself.
>>144649578Look, you know, Krakoa was a fiery but mostly peaceful ethnostate. Mutant Lives Matter, anon.
>>144649583By all accounts even mutants should hate the X-men. They live in sexy orgy mansion and have the powers of gods meanwhile a bunch of sewer freaks get slaughtered en mass and nobody sheds a tear. Then team god orgy decides on their own whim that they're all a new race and that everyone needs to kowtow to their way of thinking.
>>144642671because xmen works better in a world where other super heroes don't exist, but then also it's fun to have them meet captain america. have your cake and eat it too.
>>144649578X-Book writers have been out of touch since Grant Morrison's run>>They want to play up the fear and hated angle but also have super "badass" epic moments where characters display obscene levels of destructive power.There trying to have there cake and eat it.Hasn't really worked for them in the long run.>>They want to have the X-men tell everyone to butt out but then complain when they do all the while ignoring that the X-men rarely help out with Avenger or Fantastic Four problems tooThey probably want the X-Men to be unlikable then. Because that's a great way to do that.>>Stories aren't about saving innocents or people from huge ordeals or threats but picking fights with randos over petty insults and cause thousands in property damage but never own up to any responsibility. Which is why more and more people have stopped reading them.>>You know half the problems they faced could probably have been avoided if one or two of them stuck around after the fight to help with a broom.You make an excellent point, it would also help if they were more approachable.
>>144649449So the Mutant Hate was portrayed much more realistically back then?Then Narvel Comics should go back to that depcition then, even though we know they probably won't.And the MCU should use that depiction when they officially introduce their X-Men.
>>144643473No it wasn’t, it was just Mark Millar having a hate-boner for the New Warriors.
>>144649657>So the Mutant Hate was portrayed much more realistically back then?It was less abrasive and generally a smaller part of the larger whole. It was there but they had other shit going. Turns out the immortal pharaoh trying to usher in an age of absolute kill or be killed darkness is more pressing a concern
>>144649604They really should hate the X-Men and it would be nice if Storm calls them out now that she's an Avenger. Or Kamala could and have said speech go viral.>>144649631True but you can only that so many times though.
The real reason is that X-Men books are written by white liberals who have to keep to the status quo of having their fake minority be continually oppressed, hence why they constantly spit in the face of every other non-mutie superhero but then smugly ask where they were during [INSERT X-BOOK EVENT WHERE WE MASS KILL OFF A BUNCHA CHARACTERS].
>>144642671Because X-Men really does not fit into the rest of the Marvel setting.
>>144649684Then that's precisely how the MCU should depict it then. Although I'm really concerned that they won't.
>>144645064I'm now reminded of a panel where two white mutants proceed to play oppression olympics with Kamala Khan
>>144649691It doesn't which is why I'm glad X-Men Evolution refused to show any non X-Men characters/groups besides Captain America, S.H.I.E.L.D. and Hydra . The X-Men were truly in their own universe.
>>144649691This wasn't always such a problem.
>>144649690you really haven't read an X-Men book for 25 years, have you
>>144649757Oh I know it wasn't always such a problem. It truly became one starting with Civil War
Why doesn't Thor invite the mutants to live on Asgard?
>>144647791I would actually love if this were canon. Kang being disdainful towards mutants, rolling his eyes whenever their problems come up, and casually reminding them that they're a joke in the eyes of history would be awesome.
>>144649308Friendly reminder that Cap nor any of the regular non-mutant members of the Unity Squad had no knowledge about Mr. Sinister whatsoever until the team was formed.
>>144649951The idea that they call themselves the next step in evolution was always hysterical. That's not remotely how evolution works. You do not get to decide you've evolved preemptively. You call it evolution when enough of you live long enough to breed a few generations out and pass off your genetic DEFORMITIES to the next generation.
>>144649781Name the last X-Men book where a non-mutant superhero was in and was treated with respect and wasn't condescended to by any mutant.
>>144642671they didn't register...to vote!
>>144649969>... and that time you didn't save us when Mister Sinister kidnapped and then tried to experiment on us, and th->Wait, who the fuck is Mister Sinister? We don't have recor->THAT'S NOT THE POINT! YOU DIDN'T HELP US WHEN WE NEEDED IT!
>>144648093this man deserves more (You)s.
>>144649913Strict 'no muggas allowed' policy.Not even the miles morales altverse Thor would let them into his hood.
>>144647971Batman would!
>>144650045>X-men, we're here to lend our assist.>That won't be required>Are you sure? >yeah mutants solve mutant problems>But surely this could have greater effects on the world and>BEAT IT FLATSCAN! Emma will you mind wipe him out of hear PLEASE. >A week later: WHY AREN'T YOU HELPING US!!
>>144649669and it is completely justifiedbesides nova, new warriors sucks
>>144642671>>144642671They adapted Zero Tolerance and decided to shit on Cap and humans, instead of bringing JJJ's pro mutant activism
>>144650274You suck. And Millar is a hack.
>>144649913They would have to prove the content of their character
>>144642671Muties are cunts that’s why
If Marvel was ran by people who had small egos and synergy amongst each other, interactions between heroes and villains of other titles would feel more natural. Instead it really doesn't.
>>144642671Muggas can go fuck themselves
>>144642671No more mutantsWanda did nothing wrong
>>144645984I hate that iron man design, it looks goofy in all the bad ways.
>>144648093>MU Joe Rogan podcast in a nutshell
>>144649402Claremont was a selfish prima donna who acted like he owned the franchise where he, and he alone, had any right to use the X-characters. Even if he wasn't actually using them, didn't want to use them, or didn't like them.
>>144650379Peter was completely rightLogan tried to fuck his girlfriend ffs
I hate how randomly strong a mutant can be. Guys like Dr Strange or Sentry became strong with a cool unique backstory that justified their powers through training, studying, experiements, unique circumstances, blah blah. When a mutant is strong most of time it's just because of "le I won the genetic lottery bowl"
Well when you ally with villains who have threatened the world countless times it tends to sour one's mood.
>>144649657Fun fact, the X-men used to have actual fans. Like, people who appreciated what they did as heroes instead of mistrusting them for being genetic freaks. Pic related was the general status quo around the 80s and 90s, where it was a far more volatile mixture of awe, caution, suspicion, and irrational dislike/hatred. Hell, in some ways you could say it was essentially a general divide, since teens and young adults were usually the ones more inclined to stick up for mutants or say "Just give these X-men guys a chance" while it was their parents and older adults that were suspicious and speculating aloud how the X-men MUST have some kind of agenda to always be swooping in out of nowhere or not directly playing with the authorities. It's insane how the X-men books have actually degraded over time in terms of how it depicts human and mutant relations, really
>>144649308>It was ALWAYS the x-men themselves. Put any mutant on an Avengers team and they're terrific team players loved by the masses. As soon as they punt on an X shaped belt buckle they not only become assholes but act like the victim when they're the assholes.Wrong. The problem is Marvel trying to segregate the the mutants from everyone else in the last 20 years. The X-men as a team got along with the others fine for most of their history.
>>144649515You're not blackpilled. You're just a retard.
>>144647169Moron.
>>144642671>why Captain America, who already saw teh camps and liberated some and then saw Israel doesn't want to have Israel but with superpowers around?Gee, I dunno...
>>144651606Based police
>>144642671Because, once upon a time, Marvel Comics didn't rely on Cross-Overs...
>>144650271>Where were you when Genosha fell?!!>We were trying to stop Kang after he destroyed Washington D.C. plus the attack happened in like 5 minutes, where were you X-Men to stop it?>S-Shut up, that's not the point!!
>>144649308What you're saying is that mutants need to get off the plantation and join other superhero teams so they can have fun.
>>144652489Unironically yes. The X-men will always be family, but the Avengers are like extremely close friends and colleagues when they're at their best. It's how we got the best version of Beast, after all.
>>144646554But then they start screeching again about how you're not doing enough to help them and that you "owe" them that help for something bad your ancestors supposedly did. Sometimes they say both things in the same breath. There's no winning with them.
>>144649969The fact the X-Men were that short sighted not to tell Cap and the Unity Squad about Mr. Sinister is truly dumbfouding.>>144650275I wouldn't quite say that they shitted on them. But they definitely should have at least brought JJJ's pro mutant activism. Maybe Season 2 will do that.>>144650379He's spot-on>>144650405Which sucks no matter what kind of fan you are.>>144651606The comics desperately and I do mean desperately need to go back to that 80s/90s Status Quo. Because it actually reflected reality. Get rid of the misery porn and doomer cycle for good, go back to the realistic general divide and mixture of awe, caution, suspicion, and irrational dislike/hatred.At the very least have it be their Status Quo when they enter the MCU. Because that Status Quo is what it would be like if Mutants existed in reality and would resonate very well to Casuals/GAs>>144651780Something the Comics should go back to and that the MCU should incorporate with their X-Men. >>144652543Exactly. Seems that Editors/Writers still haven't gotten that message or or blatantly ignoring it.
>>144642671You have to be either new or retarded (as most X-Men fans are) not to understand it, but I will spell it out for you on multiple levelsThe Meta reason, the real reason, the reason you need to just fucking accept as reality and deal with it:The X-Office is a separate office within Marvel, and they have to get permission and go through hoops to use other characters. And they want to concentrate on the core themes in their 24 page books; fear, hate, racism, and standing up for themselves. Lastly, the X-Men are a huuuuge franchise with a million characters to use. Do you really want to bring in Spidey for a guest spot when you could throw Nightcrawler fans a bone? Keep in mind that the job is to promote and sell X-Men comics.In universe: The other heroes are usually fucking busy. This is often shown on panel, where someone will say the avengers or FF are off world.Canonically:Chuck X , in New Avengers, literally asked Tony Stark, Stephen Strange, Namor, Reed and Black Bolt to let Mutants handle Mutant shit, lest the Mutants take the heat for Captain Fucking America or some other hero getting killed by some mutant terrorist like Magneto. So they do.
>>144642671mutants are assholes
>>144648964Sinister is a synthetic mutant.
>>144653081>>The X-Office is a separate office within Marvel, and they have to get permission and go through hoops to use other characters. And they want to concentrate on the core themes in their 24 page books; fear, hate, racism, and standing up for themselves. Lastly, the X-Men are a huuuuge franchise with a million characters to use. Do you really want to bring in Spidey for a guest spot when you could throw Nightcrawler fans a bone? Keep in mind that the job is to promote and sell X-Men comics.Well then Disney and Fiege should change that. Get rid of that damn office, shut it down, merge it, disband.I don't care how they do it, just end this BS about it being a separate office. The X-Office being a separate office has caused more harm than good. >> In universe: The other heroes are usually fucking busy. This is often shown on panel, where someone will say the avengers or FF are off world.The In universe explanation is one I really don't have that much of a problem with. It's hokey sure but I can buy it.>>Canonically:Chuck X , in New Avengers, literally asked Tony Stark, Stephen Strange, Namor, Reed and Black Bolt to let Mutants handle Mutant shit, lest the Mutants take the heat for Captain Fucking America or some other hero getting killed by some mutant terrorist like Magneto. So they do.I kinda get were Charles is coming from, but outright asking to let mutants handle mutant shit is pretty narrow minded.
>>144650405Shared universes were a mistake.
>>144653370
>>144653081For the sake of being devil's advocate, not every formula is evergreen. Tony Stark has long stopped pretending Iron Man was his bodyguard. Thor long stopped living his double life as Donald Blake. And despite Marvel's attempts to turn back the clock, Spider-Man hasn't been a teenager in decades. The X-men's formula of being secretive heroes who soldier on through the hatred and bigotry alone cause they're the only ones who have the fully picture makes sense when they're the only ones around who can discover who is and isn't a mutant in the metaphorical needle in a haystack that is humanity. But now? At any given point there's hundreds of thousands of mutants openly walking around, and nearly as many metahumans/inhumans/robots/aliens/whatevers around. The formula's borked. They can't have the X-men be the only ones dealing with mutant shit if mutants are supposed to be this ubiquitous to the new world, nor can they act like nobody's willing to help them after literal decades of "Marvel Team-Up" chronicling the stupidest and unlikeliest hero team-ups imaginable.Like, I personally get it, when the X-men already number into the hundreds because Marvel refuses to just kill some of them off or let them retire, it's 100% superfluous to add more heroes on top of that shit. But the problem is that the comics themselves have the X-men whining about how they're alone and without aid from the other heroes on the block, and you can't have it both ways without looking like an absolute mong. And given that we JUST came off an era that was pumping out multiple "Where were YOU to help us in our time of need" bulletins and are STILL doing it in their books, this schtick is getting old.
>>144642671Because the main “good” mutant faction are a bunch of radical extremists who refuse to ask others for help, cause unfathomable amounts of carnage and try to indoctrinate any mutant they see into their death cult. Mutant relationships would be infinitely better if magneto and xavier just dropped dead
>>144653527Well now that is a hot take.
>>144648942They should just get their own universe and not share continuity with everyone else. It would simplify so much. Make it a big event or something.
>>144653608He's not wrong. Xavier covers up the crimes of mutants faster and harder than the Pope covers up pedophilia in the church and Magneto is just screeching "OY VEY THIS IS ANOTHA SHOAH! SHUT IT DOWN! KILL ALL THE GOYIM!" every other day.
>>144653777Cool. You got any rabbi jokes too? Maybe some of a Imam?
>>144653798>You got any rabbi jokes too?Are you unaware of what the words words "oy vey", "shoah" and "goyim" mean?>Maybe some of a Imam?We already talked about Nitro.
>>144653834So Christians get the pedo joke and the jew gets...A quote? Yeah, sounds even to me...
What do you call a flying mutant? Smoke.
>>144653936Look, you can either take a holocaust joke for what it's worth or you can stick to the persecution complex. Your call.
>>144653962Spoken like a true "Chosen One". Soon.
>>144651799Claremont is the origin point of all the shitty soap opera garbage that most comics have devolved into since the 90s.
>>144654023>gets a suicide bomber muslim joke>gets a genocidal jew joke>gets butthurt over his precious Cult of Dagon and their tendency to fuck little boysLook dude, the Catholic Church and Public Schools have something in common and it's NOT a stellar educational curriculum. Besides, South Park tried the same thing and look what happened and the X-Men mutant in a burqa is funny enough by herself.
The racism allegory has become a detriment to the X-Men. The writing has to bend over backwards to make the race allegory work anymore. This is one of the big reasons why the X-Men are usually separated from the main Marvel cast. The racism allegory falls apart when non-mutant superheros show up. Why isn't *Insert non-mutant character with superpowers here* not considered a mutant just because they weren't born with powers? How do ordinary people even know Cap, Hulk, or Spidey isn't a mutant? How do people know Thor is actually Thor and not some electro mutant dressing up like him? Why does it even matter if they were born or not? They still have mutated DNA.
>>144653509When there are in their own universe, ie The Foxverse and X-Men: Evolution ,the X-Men formula thrives.>>But now? At any given point there's hundreds of thousands of mutants openly walking around, and nearly as many metahumans/inhumans/robots/aliens/whatevers around. The formula's borked. They can't have the X-men be the only ones dealing with mutant shit if mutants are supposed to be this ubiquitous to the new world, nor can they act like nobody's willing to help them after literal decades of "Marvel Team-Up" chronicling the stupidest and unlikeliest hero team-ups imaginable.Excellent way of articulating that reality. The formula is just destined for failure if Mutants are so common and the X-Men act like nobody's willing to help which is total hogwash ignoring decades of stories that show there are people who want to help them. >>Like, I personally get it, when the X-men already number into the hundreds because Marvel refuses to just kill some of them off or let them retire, it's 100% superfluous to add more heroes on top of that shit. But the problem is that the comics themselves have the X-men whining about how they're alone and without aid from the other heroes on the block, and you can't have it both ways without looking like an absolute mong. And given that we JUST came off an era that was pumping out multiple "Where were YOU to help us in our time of need" bulletins and are STILL doing it in their books, this schtick is getting old.The comics are trying to have it both ways and it just comes off as wangsty or narmy.The schtick has been a little under two decades now, yet the people in the X-Office just can't seem to comprehend that. >>144653527Your not wrong anon. Which is why i think it would be an interesting route to have Kamala Khan being seen as one of the few try good Mutants similar to how Storm will likely be seen now that she's an Avenger. The Token Orc trope basically. I don't know, I think it'd be an interesting story.
>>144653509>Thor long stopped living his double life as Donald BlakeThis is largely for the better but now it feels like the Avengers are the only thing keeping him on Earth, he feels more out of place than ever. I think this is why JMS went with the whole Oklahoma thing
>>144654092Star of David around your neck for sure.
>>144653716I agree, next Universe altenating event should have the X-Men characters ending up in an earth separate from the other Marvel Characters. >>144654094The Racism allegory has arguably been a detriment to the 616 X-Men for 23 years now starting with Grant Morrison's run. The problem has been around for over 2 decades now.
>every mutant gets violently sucked into a singularity and deposited in a new universe>both sides celebrate
>>144654094I think if done right it strengthens it because alone, Mutants are a horrifying aberration, most people's hesitance to leave them be makes sense, but in a world where powers exist and the hatred against Mutants is contrasted by the attitudes towards nonMutants it actually has some allegorical weight. The hatred is the label not the powers.The real issue is how poorly they're integrated X-men can be at times as well as some plot lines muddy if Mutants are that sympathetic.
>>144642671Why isn't he combating the mutant threat?
>>144654702Yeah it does have some at least some allegorical weight when done right like the view towards mutants being a general divide. But over the last 20 years that view seems to be the exception rather than the rule. With the integration of the X-Men tending to be poorly done as with the implementation of some plot lines.
>>144653311In all fairness editorial offices are the way comic companies normally do business as it's easier to manage a line when everything is under the same chain of authority. There is an X-office, a Spider-Man office, an Avengers office, and so on. Plus, a particular office might have unrelated books under its authority to prevent editorial bloat. Wonder Woman, for example, was under the Superman editorial office until a few years ago. The problem isn't the workflow setup, it's the decision-making.
>>144655619Then Feige and Disney should fire the current decision makers/Editors in the X-Office and replace them with more intelligent decision makers. Who can acknowledge the inherent flaws of the X-Men franchise and are willing to actually fix them.
>>144642671>You work for the Iron Man... and you helped out the Spider-Man... and you've done considerable for the Ant-Man... >Only you've never bothered with the Iceman! I want to know how come?! >Answer me that, Captain America!
I mean I guess Punisher could kill some Racist humans
>>144642671After the 100th time you offer to help but they refuse because you aren't a mutant, it becomes grating, so you stop.
>>144651606rape correction?
>>144657131He was a human, Peter...All those years protesting the Mutant Rights Act, and one of my own gets me
>>144654234Coming from the guy defending pederasts that doesn't mean much.
One thing that you often hear a lot that always struck me was whenever they try to explain it as "People fear what they don't understand." But I think people understand mutants just fine. In fact I think people understand mutants better than mutants understand mutants. You tell people that there's a very real possibility that their children will be born with the potential to become living weapons. Have abilities that can caused unparalleled damage to themselves and the world around them powers that they may not be able to control either for external or personal reasons and you expect people to just.... settle with that? >But what about other heroesOther heroes are publicly regarded as aberrations to the norm. Science experiments gone wrong. Gods and aliens from another world. Things to be cautious of no doubt but not a condition that fills a parent with dread. That one day during puberty their son or daughter may sneeze and take out half a school. And there's no way to predict this and no way to treat it. And the X-men just want to sit there and act like this is all okay? Sure so many of them display excellent skill and restraint when it comes to their own powers and this should be commended. But the X-men can't be there for everyone. They can't be there for the people who are hurt or killed till after the fact. We can put a school in every state, make sure every part of the globe has a place to learn but it's still too reactionary or not enough to reach out to everyone who needs it. This is an impossible situation and it is the X-men who seem to not fully grasp what is happening because they're on the other side.
>>144658351>One thing that you often hear a lot that always struck me was whenever they try to explain it as "People fear what they don't understand."That in and of itself is a presumptuous and derogatory piece of sophistry. "You don't like X? Well, you're just ignorant and a coward!" It's classic posturing and self-righteousness. Mutants band together in groups and look out for eachothers' interests over others. They let murderers and psychopaths like Magneto run amok and never resolve to just put his ass in the ground because "oh he's misguided, but he's one of us" not caring one single fucking bit about trail of corpses he will continue to leave in his wake when he inevitably escapes or whatever.
>Are powers are going to make people fear and hate us. To that end I will show the world we're people they should like instead by actually using these powers for good.
>>144658256I-I think i saw an extra finger Uncle Ben
>>144658346Leave me alone. I don't have any foreskins for you.
>>1446533111: The offices (there are 4; Avengers, Spider-Man, X-Men and one that is sometimes called the Hulk office, which generally catches the odd books out) are siloed like that to reduce the burden of coordination. Even if the offices were eliminated, you would not want every editor reading every pitch and script outline to protect their individual identities.3: Charles said it at a secret meeting of unelected, largely powered leaders committed to secretly guiding powered heroes, earth and secretive nations, and to some extent the earth and US government. The idea that Chuck had dirty hands and doesn't get everything right had been extremely well established for decades at that point; it was not only entirely believable from him, but it was a nearly perfect addition to the Marvel Universe which retroactively made 50 years of comics make a little more sense.
>>144659547>asks for offensive jokes about other religions>gets them>bitches anyway
>>144659304Remember that one time this faggot betrayed Bruce Banner and launched him into space, then fucked up the safeties on the ship's reactor effectively killing an entire planet? What a poor man who feels guilty about his actions.
>>144659834>Spider-man is so succesful he gets an entire office for himself while the other 2 are for entire teamsDamn, that's wild.
>>144659902>fucked up the safeties on the ship's reactor effectively killing an entire planet?Wasn't that another guy?
>>144653509I definitely agree that it is getting old, and I haven't been happy with the line since before House of M. But in universe, it makes sense; the only Mutant that Chuck told about his deal was Hank, and the fucks who work in that office have so thoroughly adopted the in-universe view that they made a point of turning Hank into Networks Sinister 3.0 and then deleted 30 years of characterization.
>>144642671Because they are obnoxious little shits that burn any good bridges they gain with their genocidal victim complex, wanting to reverse racism and authoritatively force their wills without consequences because of their minority status.Or because Kurt stinks
>>144659902Reed aimed him at a peaceful world, and the ship was sabotaged after arrival. And you know that. It's ok to not like Reed, but keep your fanfiction to yourself.
>>144659968>>144660034>noooo my precious illuminati dindu nuffintraitors and murderers
>>144659947The name describes the flagpole, but that's not all they do. There have been 3-4 spider-man books at a time since the 80s, in addition to a host of other related "street characters"- Daredevil, Blade, Scarlet Spider, Miles, I think Punisher, Cloak and Dagger and so on.
We get these threads pretty often, and the same points get brought up, but it only highlights how nothing has changed over the years and if anything, the office is just adamant on doubling down on the things that make them more and more loathsome and alienating to the rest of the setting.
>>144660080Oh, the illuminati did plenty, including making a secret journey to an advanced galactic warrior empire in order to try to intimidate them into leaving earth alone.But they did not do what you are assigning blame for. Especially not Namor, who straight up told them that it would fail and make him angrier than ever.
>>144660224Constantly. Usually they're bad faith shit from the "Scott/Magneto did nothing wrong" crowd, but this one actually has at least a few people actually talking about real shit and not headcanons.Unusual for /co/.
>>144660235I'd say the fact that they never got either half of the Hulk on board with the plan is more than enough reason to condemn them, although it's true that at the very least Reed tried his best to mitigate the damage that could be done. On any given day, Bruce would be very happy to sacrifice himself via exile if it meant the Hulk couldn't hurt anyone, and the Hulk likewise could potentially be persuaded to leave and never come back if he knew nobody would pursue him. The fact that the Illuminati had to exile him in this manner instead of talking to him like a friend proved they ultimately wanted the Hulk gone, regardless of where he was sent to, and the fact their actions lead to a far more pissed off Hulk who had several reasons to call for their heads was just karmic backlash.But you are right, Namor made it clear it was a horrible idea in and of itself, and Reed was at least the one trying to ensure Bruce/Hulk would arrive at a place he'd never be harmed ever again, everyone else just looked the other way and washed their hands of it to everyone else's detriment.
>>144660404You're getting too trapped up in in-world thinking. Reed did it because Greg Pak wanted to write Space Gladiator Conan (and also remix Vol. 1 of Hulk) with Hulk. You say that on any given day Bruce might be happy with the plan, but Bruce is a *wildly* unstable figure himself.All of these characters were 40 some years old at the time, and in that time they have all made tough calls on impossible situations that haven't aged well by our standards, but we keep reading their stories. I mean, Reed was, in universe, presumptively making a Thor Robocop at about the same time and was just a few months out from remembering the time he and his illuminati buddies committed treason against every nation on earth.Meanwhile, pre-Cho retcon, Hulk had at least a 4 digit kill count and was constantly doing shit that was reckless (like the time he was barely prevented from smashing Alex Summers with a torn off cliffside upon which flightless Lorna Dane was trapped, because he mistook her for Jarella and kidnapped her)Hulk acts like this because it's more fun to draw and write him being hyperbolic and unreasonable, perhaps even... Incredible, than as some sort of hyper strong accountant.
>>144661079Friend, half the fun of even bothering with continuity is having prior events and written stories influencing future storylines and characterizations. Otherwise, they might as well just throw all that crap in the garbage and just do whatever the hell they want without even pretending there's an ongoing storyline.Which I'm okay with, but considering writers love pretending the prior stories matter while gleefully disregarding others, you can forgive me for going solely by in-world thinking cause it's not as if I can rely on the writers themselves to keep track of this shit.
>>144661302well, if you get too trapped up in that kind of thinking...They're basically all bigoted war criminals who near-universally consider a Skrull's life to be the moral equivalent of a mosquito's. Let them fight.
>200 posts>all you had to post was>"but they do? what are you? a newfag?"
>>144644393>makes a blatant rip-off of the pianist>changes magneto's origin from poland to germany>doesn't do any researchI fucking hate greg pak. what a fucking faggot
>>144650379>@$#%#$^YWS$%^$>someone considers it good writing
>>144653509>Like, I personally get it, when the X-men already number into the hundreds because Marvel refuses to just kill some of them off or let them retire, it's 100% superfluous to add more heroes on top of that shit. But the problem is that the comics themselves have the X-men whining about how they're alone and without aid from the other heroes on the block, and you can't have it both ways without looking like an absolute mong. And given that we JUST came off an era that was pumping out multiple "Where were YOU to help us in our time of need" bulletins and are STILL doing it in their books, this schtick is getting old.thing is, x-men are not whining, and they have support from various marvel heroes in comics. as usual it's /co/ who doesn't read comics, but just want to complain about something for the sake of it. there is never any interesting discussion about comics on /co/. there is never any good discussion about comics on /co/. all there is, are this newfag-tier topics about teh same shit over and over ad nauseam. tomorrow, someone will make this topic again. and there will be the same arguments, and nobody is going to be wiser. and day after tomorrow and so on
>>144648110im still mad the illuminati never got a chance to dunk on krakoa with all the foul shit they were doing
>>144648862>no good stinking skrullthe irony must be lost on logan
>>144642671X-Men has nothing to do with the rest of the Marvel Universe.
>>144659902No. But I remember the Hulk ruining everyone's shit, getting sent to a peaceful planet and only getting lost at all because he threw a gigantic tantrum.
>>144642671the X-men can't whine and cry about being feared and hated if the Avengers helped them
>>144662364>the irony must be lost on loganEven Magneto can't pick up on the mutant's Irony
>>144661364Honestly, that's a fair response.>>144661700The X-men do whine, buddy. A lot. They also get off their duffs when whining doesn't solve shit and actually do thank the other superheroes when they get involved. But by golly is it like pulling fingernails with them. And I'm not just talking about today, I mean historically they've ALWAYS had a massive chip on their shoulders regarding other superheroes not trusting them. And yes, they do get the shit end of the stick far more than generally other superheroes do. But they also give as much shit as they get, ESPECIALLY when it comes to defending how they treat Magneto.So, yeah, sorry buddy. I do read the comics. Do you?
>>144662985mags doesnt care. on one hand he'll use being in a concentration camp as a shield, the next hes talking all that make way for homo superior shit and pulling nazi tactics on his enemiesim suprised theres no mutant kill squad made of decendants of maxs victims, but its hard to take a moral high ground on people whose families hes destroyed
>>144642671Mutants are Jews to them. Genosha is Israel.
>>144648093>>144650713kek
>>144663093>X-men during Secret Wars: OH YOU JUST DON'T TRUST MAGNETO BECAUSE HE'S A MUTANT! >X-men during old Avengers crossover: YOU CAN'T JUST TRY MAGNETO IN A COURT OF WORLD LAW! HE'S A MUTANT AND YOU DON'T APPLY TO US! >X-men during old Fantastic Four crossover: YOU CAN'T FIX KITTY WITH YOUR MAGIC SCIENCE! YOU MUTANT HATING ASSHOLE I OUTTA SNIKT YOUR BUB! Also we'll got to Dr Doom's house and break all his shit even after he tells us we're interfering with him helping us with our problem!!
they need to make an x-men villain that's just the mutant equivalent of uncle ruckus
>>144663613>oh yes... there's powerful muggardry at work here...
>>144663613Graydon Creed
>>144663655his parents are mutants but he's not a mutant himself
>Boy I sure do love the gift of being a mutant. What a privilege to part of the next step in human evolution. I man I can't touch anyone without killing them but Ms Pryde told me that all mutation is great and If I want to not be one it's the cowardly way out.
>>144663754what's Peter doing to Gwen
>>144642671Rogue's petty reaction is the exact reason those entitled mutie fucks can buzz off.
>>144648862If it's green sniktt his spleenunless it's a mugga
>>144663613you did remind me that I once had the stray idea of a mutant antagonist who tries to bring back the cure because he genuinely doesn't see it as a part of his identity mainly cause his mutation is just making him freakishly unnatural looking like scaly sharp protusions all over his skin that are uncomfortable/need to be blunted every day, some real Mohg looking shit. Plus he thinks the X-men don't actually do much to try to actually compromise or settle relationsions and instead just escalate the isolation between the two, it'd be important that he doesn't hate humans and sympathizes with mutants affected like him but resents the ones with useful powers that look nice but act like they are victims, I'd say he'd also be a rights activist for literally everything else but see's mutant gene as an actual disease at worst and a deviation of humanity at best. How right or wrong his opinion is would be irrelevant since it's mostly based on his personal life history dealing as a mutant.
>>144663818>Implying muggas won't snikt a mugga
>>144663800she just lost the love of her life
>>144657131Where does Frank stand on Mutant rights?
>>144663839You see that kind of character wouldn’t be made because it would basically tear down the entire fabric of who the X-Men are. Since they wouldn’t be able to actually argue with him outside of the usual moral grandstanding and “you’re perfect just the way you are” spiel.
>>144663676With the Krakoa retcons, he’s much more rare than a mutant since it’s now a one-in-a-million chance that 2 mutants have a flatscan kid.
>>144665259I imagine them saying your perfect the way you are and he just strips off the bandages/fullbody suit he's wearing as he walks towards them as his protrusions scrape off against the floor or where they rub against his body to look them straight in the eye to say no i'm not and never will be. Honestly the X-men does have some great characters but the allegory either needs to be modified, explored better in universe beyond humans being unrealistically psychotic bigots and also to have more exploration how they view other faucets of their identity or wether they stop caring about it to focus on their mutant identity. Honestly I think X-men should be doing more proactive good then just reactive actions. I'd have to think if this hypothetical antagonist's X-Gene kicked in as he was born so he's always been like it and envies the more beneficial mutations or if it was during puberty so he has a memory of when he never had it to look on to his longer lived state. Also he definitely had to be there when the original cure was distributed but never got the chance to be normal, honestly could have slight comedy in how he managed to miss every demutification. I imagine him generally as a surly, bitter person but not a genocidal or cruel person and probably hires without bias, this would be a character who doesn't have a fully understandable motive but scalps a women to show he's evil, he's just someone who wants to present a choice and opposes the mutant identity that has made him not even look recognisably human
>>144666007Sounds cool, dunno if there's any villain already like thatIt reminds me of the X-men movies, that had Storm tell Rogue she should accept herself and that there's no need for a cure.
>>144666198It's really telling how hard they always push back against the idea of a mutant wanting a cure. A mutant can be born with a mutation that either dangerous or purely disfiguring with no benefit and the X-men will basically rob the populace of any and all choice. And yeah I know there's typically some evil plot behind the cure most of the time but once that's thwarted there's zero reason to not keep the cure on hand. It's like tossing away the cure for cancer because it was made by a nazi.
>>144666007There was this one dude, I think it was when Ellis took over Astonishing, and he was a real "mutant" like not some X-gene super person but his mom was in or around Hiroshima/Nagasaki while pregnant with him and so he came out all super fucked up and needed a wheelchair and equipment to breath all his life. So he becomes this crazy geneticist who made it is mission to get at the X-men for all their whining about being "mutants" when they look like super models and have the powers of god.
>>144666198there's the japanese guy Kaga who was the birth of a hiroshima survivor seething at them cause he was just a crippled mess instead of the X-Men. Also yeah I think this character would interact well with Rogue since he'd probably be fairly nice to her and say that someone so beautiful yet unable to touch anyone is part of the cruel irony of the X-gene at times. I'd have to think whether his mutation can be weaponized but he genuinely hates it so much he hasn't practiced or figured it or wether it is genuinely just utterly awful roll of the genetic lottery for him. Honestly you could have a powerful scene where he either meets Leech or hand holds Rogue long enough for his mutation to turnoff and just be overwhelmed by the briefest moment of freedom from it, maybe even showcasing to Rogue for a brief moment just how awful his mutation is to live with. It'd also make him double down and determinant to get the cure done so he doesn't have to live with skin and a face like a urchin mated with a thorny lizard on mutant buffing hormones
>>144666267yeah despite being a oneshot villain he oddly works well as a sort of compelling allegory for how bad a victim complex, even if with reasonable justification or it just being irrational projection born from envy or resentment can create some deeply awful and hateful people
>>144666267>>144666348>>144666372I'm guessing they just said something like "Yous aint a real mugga" and thought nothing of him after he was dealt with.
>>144666406If I remember right they were utterly unsympathetic to him and the lengths he went to his hateful crusade, Wolverine punches him in the face and Cyclops lays out his fate here
>>144666439DamnIt's impressive how unlikeable Cyclops can be at times, like, man's just kind of an asshole.
>>144666439>>144666406Emma was of course her typical "LOL I DON'T CARE ABOUT PEOPLE OTHER THAN ME" and then they made a joke about "death wheelchair"
>>144666456the only other thing remember from run is Kitty Pryde gets called a retard
>>144666439That's not just evil, that's outright demonic.
>>144666500I mean the fact he's still alive means they could bring him back in future if they ever remembered he existed. Honestly if they did, highly unlikely as it is, another Marvel and Godzilla crossover could have Kaga teamup with Dr Demonicus since both are giant monster makers fucked by radiation but are on opposing ends of the comic villain scale with Kaga being more grounded and cynical in personality and role with everything he does a means to an end to destroy the X-men. While Dr Demonicus being more theatrical in design n attitude yet also just got skin cancer instead of cool powers and is a classical style 70's villain that loves his works and his monstrous creations but is also just racist to real groups lol
>>144665667Funny thing is that going by a pure numbers game that would still mean that two mutants have a higher chance of a non-mutant child than two non-mutants having a human child. Human kid of mutant parent is so rare because the mutant population is tiny compared to the human population and its reproductive pool even smaller.
>>144666645Honestly the "next step of evolution" thing is kinda dumb now, with the X-gene being artificially implemented into the human genome by CelestialsThey're just a weird offshoot of normal humanity, they won't actually ever replace them like it's "predicted", and not just because it's a comic book
>>144666821The whole race issue too is just an idiotic concept that shows no real understand of how any of this shit works. It's like saying you're the same race as someone because you have the same color eyes or number of freckles.
>>144667119>because you have the same color eyes or number of freckles.Mutants don't even have that. The average mutant bears no resemblance to other mutants in terms of powerset or appearance.
>>144666500What’d make it demonic is if he was still somehow alive during the Krakoa era, bombarded near daily with news reports about the wonderful medical technology the mutants are bribing all the nations with for political power, how the mutants brag about having “beaten death” and are offering outright resurrection to cure patients suffering from lifelong debilitating genetic diseases and cancer as charity in new completely genetically perfect bodies…while he continues wasting away as a prisoner of his own malformed body in the hospice, staring forever at the television screen blaring those smug generically modified smiles plastered on the faces of the mutants at their precious fancy galas that are outright dressed like royalty of the new age, so drugged up he doesn’t even the upper body strength left to try and forcefully unplug himself or even beg the staff to simply let him goThat’d be the kind of thing that would make Kaya’s life beinf completely forgotten by the X-men beyond evil, but I’m guessing the writers would just say he died of old age if some fan tried to pick at that old plot thread instead. Cause nobody gives a fuck about Kaga.
>>144659902That didn't happen, but he did build a Guantanamo Bay in The Negative Zone where his former friends were kept alongside villains, kept in restraints 24/7 and tortured just from being kept awake in the Negative Zone until they signed away their life to the US Military. Leading to kids with innocent powers like "can fly on a cloud" being trained to be snipers so that their power would be more useful in killing. And how did he justify it? He did some math that no one else on Earth is smart enough to understand and it told him he had to do it or something worse would totally for sure happen, trust him.
>>144650001DeadpoolSpidermanIron Man was the latest one
>>144663800>lost the love of her life after spending entire weeks just sleeping around with the another guy who is older then her father
>>144642671How one could help a bunch of fucker that refuse any help? X-men are like crack addicts.
>>144656460Kek nice
why doesn't iron man just build xavier a suit of armor for him to walk around in or at least a better wheelchair?
>>144670400Didn't the Shi'ar give him like a floating one for a time in the 90s that they used in the cartoon?
>>144663800>I can help, but I can't rush the solution, it could complicate matters that could get in the way of being able to resolve this situation>STOP BEING REASONABLE!!! YOU HAVE TO BE ANGRY AND CHIMP OUT LIKE ME!!! REEEE!!!!The fucking Hulk has more restraint than this bitch.
>>144656460Ice man is a homo
>>144665167He called Wolverine a delusional mutant freak
>>144666439How is Cyclops a bad guy for giving him access to medical treatment a bad thing? He went easy on Kaga, considering the dude wanted to kill everyone out of spite.
>>144666250>Johnny Five-Dicks
>>144642671Help them with what? Most of them arnt even oppressed and just pass as regular ass white people with wings or some shit. Most mutants are just the LGBTQ movement. They use oppression as a smokescreen to skirt around socal ramifications for the terrible shit they do.
>>144646869these were the good times.
>>144671043Presumably because he'll also be imprisoned for the rest of his life without trial and will be denied any request for euthanasia no matter how bad his condition gets, so long as they can still keep him alive medically.
>>144671043Because the old man was basically planning to kill the X-men as part of his bucket list, so instead of letting him expire with regrets in a few days, they're artificially extending his life so that he'll die far later but morally; alone, in a pile of his own filth.
>>144671109>>144671297I feel like the same people angry that Cyclops didn't kill him would be angry if he had killed him.
>>144671043Because they’re not doing it to help him, they’re to it to prolong his suffering.
>>144671497Maybe. I'm just one of the people who laughs at how Wolverine psychotically punches out a dying old cancer patient's teeth the moment he's unable to fight back, and he just lamely whines "wheelchair of death" when his friends complain
>>144671043Anon do you have an official autism diagnosis? If not you should get one, it could help you in your life.
>Avengers fans still can't refute this
>>144672321>"Fighting Kang on a global scale. Hell, we just got back from the nuked remains of Washington, DC. Where were you?"
Most mutants don't even like helping other mutants
>>144672321Where were the X-Men when Genosha fell? Oh wait, it lasted like 5 minutes.
>>144672321Where were the X-men when Ultron killed a country.
>>144645064Yeah I'd stay in my own lane too, purely because I don't want to hear them bitching about this and that. Cap ain't gonna be mad that I stopped Red Skull, Spiderman isn't going to be mad I stopped Norman, but damn will the X-men find a way to be upset I helped stop one of the many villains they have.
>>144648784>Cause nine times out of ten they get told “this is a mutant affair, piss off” and then get attacked by the X-men until they leave or the plot reminds the X-men they have more important shit to worry about.What is the X-men policy of Ghost Rider shows up?
>>144642671>>144653527This. The X-men are so poorly thought out that they can be seen as a metaphor for a group causing their own suffering through violent incompetence >magneto is a genocidal supremacist out of the fear of a potential Holocaust on mutants, ironically causing the resentment needed to cause a mutie genocide >xavier meanwhile wants mutants to coexist with humanity while also still being a mutant supremacist>xavier’s school is mainly known for training mutants to be militant fighter to wage a eternal jihad against the government and magneto>the X-Men are highly secretive and have no interest in other groups including non-mutie supers>both sides promote themselves with the most disproportionately OP mutants they have feeding into the assumption that every mutie is a threat to society >the X-Men don’t even consider the possibility that mutants with debilitating or dangerous powers might want to be cured
>>144673332>try to come up with a fake name so nobody will be offended at being massacred by a villain in a comic>go with slov-I mean renia Why not at least swap out a letter in Transnistria? It already sounds like a comic country that would fit in next to Latveria.
>>144673500All of them always think they're in the right so he has no power over them.
>>144673500Generally the same policy as when dealing with someone like the Incredible Hulk or Namor or any other of the temperamental hard-hitter anti-heroes roaming arond; Hope that they're not pissed and/or involved in whatever they're trying to do. Cause as often as it's joked upon (with receipts) that the X-men act stupidly territorial over mutant affairs, they generally act that way only because other heroes hate the idea of getting into pointless fights unless things are really that bad. Thing is, you can't do that shit with Hulk. If you come into his path, he's already pissed off enough to throw hands, and trying to intimidate him is only going to piss him off further. Same with Ghost Rider. If he's already in flaming skull form, there's a fifty-fifty chance that his host is not calling the shots, and unless you can somehow convince the spirit of vengeance possessing him that whoever the target of his ire is also yours or that there are extenuating circumstances, the spirit tends to be generally pissy and single minded enough to only respond to any demands to leave with "get out of my damn way".The only exception is if Wolverine is there, cause then the policy is just be double sure they know there's someone else more important to fight cause otherwise they'll start brawling like neanderthals then and there until one of them runs out of steam.
>>144673500They'll throw barbs at him, but it's pointless because he's the Spirit of fucking Vengeance, then Wolverine will do something stupid and get his ass thrashed until the target rears its head and they both have to deal with it somehow.
>>144644488Speaking of Frank, one of the first Punisher comics I ever read was when he was protecting a mutant.
>>144647971>Because he doesn't want to set a precedent that he can get away with it and become the Punisher.It's stupid. We're not talking about killing some random goons, we talk about the Joker who routinely kill thousands of people.
>>144666250The cure does remain in the movie and Logan accepts Rogue's choice of taking it
>>144675096Did it teach the mutant to always exercise his second amendment rights rather than rely on his mutant powers?
>>144665167Frank mostly sticks to mobsters, gang bangers, bikers, and cartel members. I’m thinking he looks at them the way he looks at everyone else. If you’re good he leaves you alone, if you’re bad, he kills you.
>>144642845>>144649310>le racisms is a literal viruslmao what hacks
>>144654026Claremont was someone who always needed a Jim Shooter to reign him in
>>144676047>>144654026The thing is that soap opera garbage actually IS important to the books. They just need to be balanced with the punching. But you want pages of drama were characters question their place in life, if it's right to bring a child into the world knowing they'd be mutants and thus feared? That's all good and heavy drama. Now we just get web comic tier bullshit of characters having food or pwning the chunds while gloming for the camera. One is a reflection of vulnerability in gods and the other is .... well retarded.
>>144675623Well, it turns out the mutants that was hunting them were only pretending to be mutants. They wore power suits and injected low rent super power juice into them. It was a whole thing. (Pic not related)
>>144660404Why Banner never tried to go back to the Merged/Professor Hulk status?
>>144676440In-universe, they can't find him. No, really, that's the explanation. He's dormant, and they can't really find him.Out of universe, I don't think he was super popular, so they just never really brought him back, they usually just made smarter incarnation of the Hulk to effectively mimic the idea but include Hulk's trademark rage.
>>144642671I've used this as an example before. Fantastic Four #243 published June 1982. The FF, Avengers, and Dr Strange came together to stop Galactus from destroying the earth. What were the X-Men doing at that time? The broke in to the *Pentagon* to erase data files they had on mutants, hero and villains alike.The X-Men are by-definition a paramilitary terrorist organization.
>>144674206>>try to come up with a fake name so nobody will be offended at being massacred by a villain in a comicIt wasn't because of that. Slorenia was introduced by Dan Abnett back in 1994 in Force Works. The Targoth Troops and Black Brigade (whom Ultron slaughtered in Ultron Unlimited) were also introduced there.
>>144672321What issue is she referencing?
>>144677594>alien invasion>don't grab a weapon in an attempt to at least slow it down or stop it, you have to find a way to have your browser history and text logs erased Priorities, fucking muties.
>>144658351I agree that most people understand Mutants fine. The X-Men really don't seem why Mutants are at least treated with a sense of caution, they want to act like the unpredictability of what powers someone will have is okay when it's really not.
>>144642671Because there is evil to smite
>>144660285Unusual but very welcomed.>>144663093Thanks for providing receipts.>>144663613I'm surprised that hasn't happened yet or maybe it has but the villain didn't stick.>>144665259It's really a shame Editorial would shoot this down right away, because it could easily end up being one of the Best X-Men stories ever told.>>144666007Damnit, I want to see this story published in some form.>>144666250>> A mutant can be born with a mutation that either dangerous or purely disfiguring with no benefit and the X-men will basically rob the populace of any and all choice. And yeah I know there's typically some evil plot behind the cure most of the time but once that's thwarted there's zero reason to not keep the cure on hand. It's like tossing away the cure for cancer because it was made by a nazi.They do rob the populace of that choice in the comics, but they didn't in the movies. And yeah once the plot is thwarted, there's no reason not to keep the cure at hand, heavily under lock and key sure but it'd still be accessible.>>144666348>>Honestly you could have a powerful scene where he either meets Leech or hand holds Rogue long enough for his mutation to turnoff and just be overwhelmed by the briefest moment of freedom from it, maybe even showcasing to Rogue for a brief moment just how awful his mutation is to live with.That scene would honestly bring me to tears. >>144666372Kaga is a villain that deserved better. And a character that >>144663839 should uuse as an inspiration.>>144666439The fact they don't feel any pity for him in the slightest is really odd.>>144667584A reveal like that would be a great way to bring him back.>>144672400Even if the Avengers weren't busy Fighting Kang on a global scale, by the time they could have arrived to Genosha it would've been too late.>>144673938That's the type of metaphor the X-Men really are.>>144675408Which i'm glad he did. >>144677594All i can say about this is yikes.
>>144679069Honestly kinda tempted to comm a design for this hypothetical character now that idea had some positive feedback in this thread, if had a name he'd forgo a fancy mutant style name for more typical marvel person name like Sanford Skythe or Samuel Spines. Also yeah Kaga genuinely despite his nasty lengths is just to pitiable a villain to be hated and their lack of sympathy or even compassion is very odd in hindsight with their leniency later on
Mutants are cause of majority of the problems that mutants experience. Unvaccinated potential mutants are just a ticking dirty bomb waiting to happen.
>>144679951It's primarily cause Kaga isn't supposed to be conventionally pitiable. He's basically supposed to be the full expression of how far some people are willing to go for the sake of jealousy and spite towards others having what they don't, a dark mirror to Xavier who could have easily used his wealth and mind to destroy humanity instead of helping others. It doesn't help that we don't know exactly how or what Kaga did with his life or how much/how little he ever interacted with other mutants. He outright says he used his mutated intelligence to build the incredible medical technology keeping him alive, but it doesn't say whether he built all the evil robots and his space station specifically to kill the X-men or he just had it lying around as a byproduct. That and judging by how he talked about he discovered the X-men via the television, there's no sign whether he ever actually reached out to Professor X to find his fellow mutants or nursed his grudge without even sending so much as a threatening letter.Basically, the man had a legitimately horrific life and by all accounts had to struggle from birth to get where he is, but his pettiness and jealousy are meant to be condemned instead of pitied. And it genuinely doesn't help that not only does he supply some rather harsh condemnations to the X-men regarding their position in the world and how they are in fact far more privileged than they think, they literally prove him right when he maligns them as "Perfect men and women who pose and strut and punch people uglier than themselves" the exact moment Wolverine clocks him when he's rendered helpless before them.TL;DR You're supposed to have little sympathy for Kaga cause his pettiness and envy are totally unlike the kinds the other X-gene mutants face cause he's still human enough to be evil and therefore not enough of a magical mutie minority.
>>144648964Neither is Hepzibah, Warlock etc. They're X-Men. It's just that juggy and the sins happen to be villains too.
>>144650001you've missed the pointthe X-Men are villains, not heroes, some of them explicitly so, and it's been going on for decadesthey're not aimed at the liberal crowd, they're aimed at authoritarians
>>144649515Claremont is both the best and worst thing that ever happened to the x-men. His run from giant sized up through the mid 80s was genuinely amazing and the reason why comics in general were the massive success in the 90s, but his inability to accept the status quo nature of the material caused to much of a shit show that was poorly “fixed” in the 90s. He never should’ve tried to make magneto a “good guy”
>>144649286Nova brought a version of her from the past back into the present through a time paradox
>>144680172yeah honestly Kaga is super underrated as a character and should get more use, he is such a fascinating perspective on the X-men series and also just mutants, like they don't even refute his points by highlighting their issues they just shit on him for being upset when they've given Magneto leniency.
>>144642671Goddamn, Emma, let it go already. Where was Cap and the Avengers when a busload of your former students was destroyed? Well where were you? It happened right outside your fucking office window.
>>144680037It's honestly insulting how the X-men decided for themselves that they're the height that all mutants should strive too. >What's that you have the power to explode once then die?! Well you better put it to good use faggot. What you want to live? Well you're just a coward!
>>144680362Even if Kaga was clearly meant to be a one and done kind of character, there is one thing that I feel was interestingly never addressed or could at least be something worth introspecting; How Sunfire was pretty damn close to being like Kaga, and how it's more than likely he knew someone just like Kaga if not the man himself. After all, he shares a similar backstory to Kaga in how radiation poisoning from the atomic bombs mutated them in the womb and how they both shared massive resentment and bitterness regarding the circumstances of their birth, with the big difference being Sunfire gained superpowers and turned his hatred towards the US while Kaga only gained a stronger mind and instead turned his hatred towards those mutants he viewed as unlike himself. How would the two view each other? Would Kaga have resented Sunfire in the same manner he did the other X-men, or sought to ally with him due to the circumstances of their birth? Were there other such mutants they knew who weren't blessed with superpowers? Would Sunfire have become more sympathetic to those mutants who weren't as blessed with powers and health like he was, or would he have just doubled down on his lack of tolerance for those he deemed beneath him?...Now this is sounding like fanfic shit, so I'm going to stop there. But really, if they did bring back Kaga, I'd be incredibly shocked and surprised at having the balls of Marvel to bring back a villain with such a tragic backstory, given how much they hate making the anti-mutant forces have nuance these days.
>>144680585I think he'd probably like Sunfire if only because Sunfire very openly uses his powers for the good of his nation rather than just being an secret enclave of hedonistic self important assholes.
>>144680585>>144680694Also, i want to ad, you have people like Firestar whose mutation was actually given her cancer and potentially rendering her infertile. But the more I think abut her being anywhere near the X-men the angrier I get.
>>144680585honestly this thread has been some of the most interest had in X-Men idea's beyond Rogue and Psylocke making my reptile brain kick in or liking them in video games. Honestly Kaga does have a well of potential to interact with other characters like Sunfire, Xavier or Magneto
>>144680715and people shit on Hank Pym when he probably did so much good for Firestar with this single act alone, surprised they don't interact more and honestly be an interesting dynamic besides the weird Tigra Skrull thing
>>144680760Busiek was good to Hank. His run was good to everyone.
>>144680760people shit on hank pym because he's been marvels whipping boy for years
>>144680863I feel like he was heading in a good direction for a really long time and it's only post disassembled that people started to bring back old laundry.
>>144680742It's weird thinking about it, but you're right. As unlikely as it is, seeing Kaga reflecting on his bitter wasted life to someone like Sunfire, Xavier or Magneto would be a very interesting character piece for a guy that's probably dead of old age in canon by now. Especially considering Marvel doesn't seem to want to ignore the previous Krakoa period, and Magneto and Xavier lost quite a lot trying to make the kind of community Kaga longed for only to watch it crumble right in front of their eyes.>>144680715It legitimately is funny how the Avengers and New Warriors have done far more for Firestar than her own "people" have in the X-men.
>>144680979Man if any single page sums up the problem with the mutant situation...
>>144680863Marvel just rotates on which character they'll shit on, Bendis loves that a lot and the Serpent Society sadly catch a brunt of it to despite being great villains with a lot of potential for fleshing out
>>144681009I think someone high up has a personal Beef from the past with someone named Hank.
>>144672400>"Fighting Kang on a global scale. Hell, we just got back from the nuked remains of Washington, DC. Where were you?
>>144676440After reading the Prof Hulk saga he'd be too based, literally the gigaest of giga chads
>>144676647>but include Hulk's trademark rage.Which is funny because Prof Hulk was pure anger issues, despite all the advantages he still had an incredibly short fuse to the point where he'd do really stupid shit from a little bait
>>144680172It's ironic how Kaga was intended to invoke little sympathy.>>144680362He really is a fascinating perspective on mutants in general. >>144680512And that's a point Kata makes.>>144680585>>But really, if they did bring back Kaga, I'd be incredibly shocked and surprised at having the balls of Marvel to bring back a villain with such a tragic backstory, given how much they hate making the anti-mutant forces have nuance these days.Remember when we thought Ochris was gonna have nunace?>>144680715As do I anon. >>144680979>>As unlikely as it is, seeing Kaga reflecting on his bitter wasted life to someone like Sunfire, Xavier or Magneto would be a very interesting character piece for a guy that's probably dead of old age in canon by now. That could make for one of Marvel's most introspective, thought provoking , multi layered stories in the last decade.>>It legitimately is funny how the Avengers anc New Warriors have done far more for Firestar than her own "people" have in the X-men.It really is but it's also kind of sad as well.
>>144642671They must keep mutants at a distance. Not too far, but not too close. They are the non-biased heroes, they have to constantly stay in the middle in order to protect the world as a whole on a general outlook. If they involve themselves too deeply with mutants (even though that's what they really want too), then they have created an opinion that leaders would use to turn the rest against them. They can't save the world, if they are at constant odds with the nations.
Kaga's like if Frank Grimes wasn't a joke.
I've got to admit, it's amazing how long it took for them to get over the whole Decimation thing, even more so for Genosha. Love Krakoa, hate Krakoa, at least it ended with removing a ton of shitty deaths.Now let us hold our breaths as Marvel ushers in a new wave of shitty deaths!
>>144681788Good Analogy
>>144666488>Kitty Pryde gets called a retardWhat, are you un-dense? Are you retarded? Or something? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm the goddamn Snikt-Bub.
>>144680395That will never not be the funniest shit to me.>Mutant supremacist rounds up depowered kids and shoves them on a regular school bus to forcibly evict them from a literal fortress of alien weaponry staffed by a superhuman militia "for their protection"
>>144680585>Great, another godling, preening and posing for his ego; at least you wrap yourself in a flag and pay lip service to a higher ideology than your own self-glorification.>Just another bitter misanthrope who decided the only point of his life was tearing people out of jealousy.>...>...>Fuck the X-Men.>Fuck the X-Men.
>>144682193Truly never a more beautiful exchange of dialogue there was than this
>>144682143Well that security didn't do much good, did it? Please was also surrounded by giant, human piloted, Sentinels.
>>144682193Amazing
Mutants being cunts to Kamala guarantee's they are my enemy for life
>>144682686Kamala needs to go back to the Avengers.
>>144682686Nobody cares Kamala fag. She's a wart on everything she touches.
>>144680395Ever since Emma picked up this stray thought she's been looking for someone else to blame.
>>144642671Mutants are subhuman scum
>>144672321A mutant psychic twin of Xavier is the reason Genosha fell, Sentinels have had funding and backing by members of the Hellfire Club, including Frost pictured there.
>>144642671Because if he does, there won't be mutant stories to tell.
>>144666488She’s said worse
>>144683744You can't just use facts and logic you bigot. That's not fair to mutants. >>144683864Yeah but see it's okay when she does it.
>>144649700How the fuck are people still writing this shit? Will at some the x-man travel to pre-civil war era america and just tell the slaves that they understand their struggle???
>>144642671Because the X-man will aways be a metaphor only fitting for jews>cry about geing called out in the streets but most of them can pretty much go unnoticed if they choose to>constantly shitting own their kin, looking for excuses for their immature behavior>have all the power the universe they can provide to make a difference and still want more gib points by society>don't want to share their oppressing with other groups>want acceptance but their plans aways end up with one ethnostate after ethnostate
>>144645064Yeah, Spider-Man, the most prosecuted superhero in New York doesn't know shit about being hated. Fuck off, woke mutie scum.
Do you mutants even like the ugly mutants?
>>144642671Because every time you give them a hand, they take a arm. And when people call them out on this humans always end up getting killed while the mutant cries and plays the victim.
>>144684414>be mutant>look like a supermodel>have sex with other mutants who look like supermodels all the time>make fun of the ugly ones. Just like real life
>>144684163Given what Genosha was like before Magneto took it over, I’m surprised they haven’t claimed that they compared it to the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade directly. Likely cause that’d be a bridge too far even for the most champagne of socialists.
>>144642920>not everything revolves around mutantsThis right here is the heart of the problem. X-Men writers and fans who see Marvel as "The X-Men Universe" and all the other characters as just side-characters to the mutants. The type of mentality that creates the kind of schizos who genuinely believe people like Rictor, Moonstar or Pixie are bigger more popular characters than Iron Man or Thor just because they're mutants, and creates people who think everything the other Marvel heroes are doing should revolve around whatever's going on in X-Men books, and if they're not there to help it's not because they were constantly dealing with their own problems in their own books, it's because they're bad people who didn't care and need to be called out for it. It's insane.
>>144653509This is a good point, and to add to this, Marvel have to make a choice. If they want a gorillion mutants all over the world, forming their own communities and culture, and all the worldbuilding that goes with it, that completely alters and destabilizes the rest of the Marvel Universe, they need to finally, permanently separate the mutants into their own universe away from the rest of Marvel, so everyone else can just get on with enjoying some superhero comics without constantly getting shamed for not being there to help out with whatever retarded racial allegory the X-books are doing this year.Doing this without a reboot would be messy and awkward, mutant characters that belong to other titles would need to get retconned into not actually being mutants, the same as already happened with Franklin, Wanda, Pietro and Squirrel Girl, but if X-Men writers and fans want to keep doing this, it's ultimately necessary, so they stop harming the other heroes by constantly trying to make them look bad, and so they stop screwing up the setting for everyone else because they can't just stay in their lane.If they wanted to go back to there being at most only a few hundred mutants on the planet and just memoryhole that there were ever any more, so nobody's screeching about extinction, and go back to the X-Men being on friendly terms with other heroes, things could work fine, but nobody working on the books seems to want that and the loudest segment of the fandom doesn't seem to want it either.
Avengers are fine people. Then when written alongside the x-men they're suddenly cunts, so the x-men's problems can exist. It's annoying.
