Why didn’ the adult american animation evolve the same way as jap adult animation? Why didn’t Ralph Bakshi have more successors?
Same reason American comics didn't follow more in line with guys like Robert Crumb.In Japan artists consider eroticism and fetishism a natural part of the arts, while in America that stuff is considered dirty and gross and bad.Even guys as big as Miyazaki and Tezuka and (for a more recent example) Shinkai all agree on the need for eroticism in art.
>>144654469That explains neopuritans like Zach Hadel.
>>144654338Why didn't western comics evolve the same way as eastern Manga? Because of the religious purity and panic over controversial topics. There was a period of time where the heroes HAD to win over the villains, less the children idolize those who do wrongThe times we live in now are so drastically different to even 20 or 30 years ago, so it's hard to really say what is "evolved" and what hasn't. Even if you go to Japan, you'll find not everyone is like your anime obsessed weeb, so the evolution of their animation is in spite of the powers around them, not encouraged by themWhen Disney releases Snow White in 1939, it was the first feature length, theatrical western animation, and everyone thought it would fail. Even back then, animation was seen as costly and time consuming, and something most studios stayed away from. Even after their initial success, animation wasn't a promise of profits, so they has to include some kind of spectacle. This is where I would argue that western animation overtook eastern with Fantasia being released, as it still looks beautifulOf course, this is implying that you're talking about the actual animation, and not the plot lines or storytelling
>>144654469>>144654516Wonder Woman started out as some guy's BDSM comic while characters like Tinker Bell were designed with a pin up look in mind.There are several factors on why this happened but this is just absurd.
>>144654516>this is secretly a Zach hate threadOh my God he's not even a neopuritian where the hell does this idea come from?
>>144654569Bro, are you seriously trying to compare WW and Tinkerbell to the eroticism in manga?
>>144654601Have you actually read Golden Age WW? Shit was kinky as fuck.
>>144654584Maybe because he never shuts the fuck up about porn addiction and makes weird pedo jokes?
>>144654614Bro, are you being serious?Even random shonen is kinkier than anything in WW.Fucking Naruto is kinkier than WW.
>>144654601>>144654638>moving the goalposts
>>144654655Anon, the OP literally mentioned Ralph Bakshi, and the first post mentioned Robert Crumb.Do you ACTUALLY think ANYTHING from WW is anywhere near as kinky as the kinky stuff put out by Ralph Bakshi and Robert Crumb?
>>144654469Thanks christianity
>>144654638>>144654683>he hasn't read up on the Golden Age years
>>144654569The zeitgeist on eroticism and animation, and more specifically whether a belongs in b, has clearly changed since then though. You can’t compare the design of tinkerbell and ww in the 50s against the obvious castration animation has been put through in most modern /co/
>>144654561>The times we live in nowMy question was more regarding it's evolution in the 90s and 00s.
>>144654732And you clearly haven't read anything made by Robert Crumb.
>>144654469/thread
>>144654748The question was all Americans find sex and eroticism icky. I pointed out this wasn't exactly true in mainstream works. You moved the goal posts in that it wasn't "kinky enough".
>>144654769>I pointed out this wasn't exactly true in mainstream works.You named 2 examples.
>>144654760Samefag.
>>144654740Now see this is a more reasonable answer. There has been a change in recent years compared to how sexy things used to be.
>>144654469>>144654740I think the fact /co/ has gotten desexed and defanged is part of why it’s not popular anymore. As soon as adults couldn’t project their sex drives through it, like in old Looney Tunes shorts they would show at the cinema of the cartoons fighting over a sexed-up dame, audiences really had no more reason to stay interested in it. We’re all monkeys at our core: we wanna see sex and violence, even just lightly
>>144654780And you named one example with Naruto; not naming a certain amount of examples isn't the gotcha you think it is. But okay let's take examples like Kida, Esmeralda, and Chel.Even if you want say "not kinky enough" you'd be daft to say there's zero eroticism in these characters and their respective works.
>>144654584Hi Zach, how's Sunday services treating you? Have you met Butch Hartman yet?
East vs west threads should be punishable by death
>>144654885>And you named one example with NarutoI could literally just name big-name shonen and it would still be far more examples than you could name.I don't know why people will admit that the CCA fucked up comics for years but then pretend that that didn't happen in threads like this.Like yes, the eroticism in comics is EXTREMELY muted thanks to years of censorship.
>>144654695>Thanks SJWsFixed that for you.
>>144654928>I could literally just name big-name shonen and it would still be far more examples than you could name.Your "muh eroticism" was already retarded to begin with since modern manga is much more tame than previous decades.Your average shonen manga is less raunchy than the shit they got away with in the 80s; Naruto isn't even naked for his Sexy Jutsu anymore.
>>144654977>since modern manga is much more tame than previous decades.Not really, a lot more manga artists these days are literally ex-porn artists who keep that same eroticism in their published works, sometimes they'll even have the same characters. But regardless, there's far more of it there than in comics.
>>144654928I was very much willing to admit that modern works are more defanged nowadays but its retarded to say everything not completely degenerate isn't erotic and that it's all censorship. Eroticism is a spectrum and can be handled in many different ways.
>>144654928>I don't know why people will admit that the CCA fucked up comics for years but then pretend that that didn't happen in threads like this.The WW example posted was pre CCA though.
>>144655058This just kind of wraps back to the first post, where to the American, what's "degenerate" is just erotic to someone else.
>>144654851The alternative is actual pedo artists like the act-age and rurouni kenshin writers
>>144655041>Not really, a lot more manga artists these days are literally ex-porn artists who keep that same eroticism in their published works, sometimes they'll even have the same charactersOutside of Food Wars, I can't think of any other examples outside maybe the big tits in OP. Even /a/ has noticed there's not as much risque stuff compared to older works.>But regardless, there's far more of it there than in comics.It's weird how people say this yet complain about the X-Men comics are just orgies on an island or ignore fanservice-y comics outside the big two.
>>144655089On the other hand, people dismiss these older works as not kinky enough when back in their time they were very daring and controversial. The problem with these east vs west threads is they treat different values as a cudgel to swing at others.
>>144655164>Outside of Food Wars, I can't think of any other examples outside maybe the big tits in OPYou must not read much manga at all.Even WSJ has stuff like Mato Seihei no Slave which flat out shows nipples in volume releases.
>>144655089>where to the American, what's "degenerate" is just erotic to someone else.Keep in mind not every Japanese is a weeb who gets off to manga. See the reaction to that one Haunted Hot Springs manga. Or parents complaining about Go Nagai.
>>144654632What are you talking about, he's never once mentioned anything about porn or pedo jokes
>>144655196>On the other hand, people dismiss these older works as not kinky enough when back in their time they were very daring and controversial.Right, but they were daring and controversial because America's culture at the time was very prudish.The modern comics being less sexy is less because of that prudishness and more because modern America is just kind of gay and is only okay with fanservice if it's gay.
All Japan is nowadays is adaptations of light novels.
>>144655241>Keep in mind not every Japanese is a weeb who gets off to mangaI'm not going to pay much attention to someone who clearly doesn't know what the term "weeb" means.
>>144654912You clearly haven't watched sleepy cabin if you think Butch "Ghost Zone make my Bone Moan" Hartman and Zach are at all similar
>>144654338USA has Puritan roots. You know, the people who were kicked out of England for being too religious. Japan does not have the same history.
>>144655249>>144655276>the Jared Fogle joke>the whole bit with the devilZach is the exact person anime fans are talking about>>144655255>>144655273>>144655292
OP here. This was more about adult animation not taking a different direction compared to the sitcom galore.
>>144655316Yea, how did this become about comics specifically?But as far as adult animation goes, that's mainly just because sitcoms are cheap.Same reason why live action TV used to be full of sitcoms, and why sitcoms continue to be arguably the most commonly spammed genre for American TV.
>>144655228>Even WSJ has stuff like Mato Seihei no Slave which flat out shows nipples in volume releases.That was in Jump+ not the main WSJ mag retard-kun. It's an online thing for older audiences and stuff that was too hot for WSJ. This is like counting Adult Swim and CN as the same thing.
>>144655312>the Jared Fogle jokeThe bit was literally "who would be the worst smiling friends client" I don't know what this has to do with neopuritan>the whole bit with the devilAh yes, the neopuritan belief that you shouldn't be cynical and cut-off all the time and the you should keep your room clean. The devil wasn't jerking off btw, he was playing Rust and getting door dash all day
>>144655348>This is like counting Adult Swim and CN as the same thing.Bad example since Adult Swim and CN basically are the same thing nowadays and Adult Swim starts at like 5 PM these days.
>>144655316>>144655333Sorry the rejected /a/utists derailed the thread.
>>144655255>Right, but they were daring and controversial because America's culture at the time was very prudish.Not everyone who doesn't jerk of to /d/ tier stuff is a prude. At this point this is just "America bad".
>>144655261That’s a good thing. It’s part of why animation is so accessible over there and not a private clique that’s hard to get into
>>144655316Isn't Simpsons the culprit responsible for that?
>>144655400Stop being retarded, America was objectively prudish in the mid-20th century.
>>144655402Actually, it was The Flintstones if you go far back enough
>>144654695Can you explain why Europe isn't as prudish as America when it comes to sex? They're also mostly Christian.
>>144655407Do you have any other argument than crying about prudes?
>>144655401Well, depends on what novel.
>>144655414>>144655407
>>144655414Because the religious zealots got on the Mayflower and started a new country where they could go even crazier with religion. All that was left was a bunch of Frenchmen and couple Spainards
>>144655416>What's 2+2? And don't say 4!
>>144655414They exiled their biggest prudes to the Netherlands. The Netherlands didn't want them either, and exiled them to America.
>>144655414Anon would be more accurate if he said Protestantism.
>>144655316>>144655333>>144655402>>144655411>people talking about prudes>NOOOOO IT WAS THE HECKING SITCOMS THAT RUINED IT, STOP TALKING ABOUT THE PRUDES!Retards the lot of you.
>>144655443The OP wasn't even talking about eroticism or kinky shit>>144655316It's like if someone asked you what 2+2 is and you went on a rant about potatoes.
>>144655474Anon I was talking about the Flintstones, I have no idea what you're talking aboutPlease take your meds
>>144655442>>144655453>>144655456You can say SJWs, this isn't twitter.
>>144655493>>144654338>Ralph BakshiOP was absolutely referring to pornographic animation. They should have picked a different example, otherwise.
>>144655493>The OP wasn't even talking about eroticism or kinky shitHe probably should have chosen an example besides Ralph Bakshi considering most of the adult animation he's known for is his kinky stuff.
>>144655519I wasnt talking about the SJWs, I was talking about the religious nutjobs that saw America as the promise land
americans don't need softcore porn in our comics because our hardcore porn isn't censored.
>>144655541That doesn't make sense, Euro comics also have plenty of softcore porn and their hardcore porn isn't censored either.
>>144655541Porn is the only context you want to see sexy people in?
>>144655519You sound underaged, so I implore you to educate yourself on the history of American prudes. Clearly it crosses political boundaries, but they all come from the same Puritanism roots.
>>144655541God dam right, God bless this country and the beautiful babes that show me their pussy
>>144654338I guess this tradition will be rebirthed with the indie crew.
>>144654338America's weird contradictory puritanical culture it's never shuffled off.
>>144655571This is why I hate Bluey unironically. People are so afraid of sexy people.
>>144655510see>>144655521>>144655525Quit deflecting neopuritan.
removing the ip counter was a mistake
>>144655540>>144655595>>144655576Religious groups haven't been relevant in decades. It's mostly danger hairs trying to take away your sexy women away; we don't have mainstream pinups or cheesecake anymore.
>>144654584It's literally just one coomer faggot. He took a line in a cartoon as a personal attack and has made it his pifes mission to subject the rest of us to his autistic porn addiction as some sort revenge for Zach "persecuting" him.
>>144655612Anon I was still only talking about The Flintstones because someone said The Simpsons started the animated sitcom, when really the animated rip off of The Honeymooners started it first, it has nothing to do with neopuritan
>>144655592>modern day puritans will revive thisHow stupid you are. They only care about the gays and no one else.
Go back to watching whatever shonen slop TikTok told you consoom Weeb fag. Nobody wants you here.
>>144655644Right, this is the case nowadays, but people are talking about where that culture came from, and it came from the puritan Christians.Even the woke danger hair retards basically use the same tactics as the puritan Christians of olde, only they say "THINK OF THE GAY CHILDREN" instead of "THINK OF THE CHILDREN."
>>144655644It's not religious groups per se, it's an ingrained cultural ethos. America was founded and developed by uptight repressed literal puritans.
>>144655649And again, we were talking how Americans hate sex and love puritanism. OP made reference to a famous pornographer. Yet you start babbling about sitcoms and shit.
>>144654921This.Weebs use to be rightfully reviled, but they've been emboldened by normies shifting their focus to Japan.On the bright side, I can't wait to watch them rape manga to death the same way they did western comics.
>>144655519But they were not SJWs, if anything the puritans were the ultra-conservatives of their time.
>>144655670>>144655684Again, not relevant anymore and even then we had some sexuality in our medium. This is worst than the puritans ever were; hence the term neopuritans.
>>144655692No actually the topic is supposed to be how the animation process evolved from the 90s to the 20s, instead you're all talking about colonial America and their values
>>144655711Then why did OP bring up a pornographer? Quit deflecting.
>>144654561It depends on which aspect of animeThe Otaku stuff is frowned upon, problem is that a lot of westerners confuse "stuff in anime I don't like" with Otakuism I seen niggas unironically Call Naruto Otaku pandering
>>144655696We might butcher famous anime and manga with hollywood adaptation, but nothing we do this side of the pacific is going to change the manga or anime industry. The vast majority of studios over there basically pretend we don't exist at all. We are not their core demographic, they don't work for us.
>>144655722>Then why did OP bring up a pornographer?Because he was one of the big names in adult animation in that era.
>>144655722Is the topic just "why can't I see boobie in my cartoon :( "? Is there not a more serious, methodical reason for it? Does the prompt of evolution not draw comparisons to creationism, and how religion might affect art?
>>144655710That's not what meant. Again it's just referring to the source spirit. Regardless of secular developments in America the founding attitude always has exerted influence. American "neopuritans" are an descendant of this attitude. Condemnation or especial sensitivity of sexuality is ingrained.
>>144655737Oh you sweet naive child, do you honestly believe the publishers are ignoring the boom in American interest? They've started forming professional connections with American dubbing and distributing companies, simulcasting popular shows as they come out, and it's only going to get worse from there. In few short years, Japan will be neutering large swathes of entertainment in order to appeal to a "wider audience" just like here in America.
>>144655735If anything, anime has somewhat regressed since the 80s and 00s, with less fanservice and panty shots and what not. If anything, I never liked it because it felt too personal, that the artist themselves were making a decision to be pervvy, and not that the story required it. This ties into the idea of the spectacle however, as the idea of seeing body parts would be enough for people to tune in and hopefully get a glimpse at some anime titties
>>144655696>Weebs use to be rightfully reviledThis is was always an anime website.
>>144655802By that point everything will not matter since the Ai would be advanced enough to translate(or to trick people that it's translating) anime/manga so people will just get it for themselves without needing a 3rd party.
>>144655647Dam coomers. I love jacking off too, I just don't make it my personality
>>144655519Dude are you like 45, people say woke now.
>>144655755Religion is the reason why you can't see boobies and boobies are important to art.
>>144655884Can't call people SJW's anymore. Because of woke
>>144655755>Is the topic just "why can't I see boobie in my cartoon :( "?Yes. As the first post shows /co/ believes sexual content is the only mark of adult animation.
>>144655153>muh japs are pedo'sFuck murrican audience.
>>144655845You've missed the forest for the trees. The point isn't mistranslations by overly sensitive activists, it's the ever tightening connection between those activists and the companies themselves. Let me tell you, there are already a few publishers reaching out to American consulting agencies to get their opinion of their IPs and how to appeal to Western audiences. They're already taking money from investment companies like Blackrock. The poison has crept in, and things are about to get mush worse as it spreads. Japanese conglomerates are the same as American ones, lumbering behemoths incapable of changing course quickly, so I promise you that this poison is going to have plenty of time to fester.
>>144655918/thread
>>144655853Yeah, I can't help but marvel at their ability to turn being horney into a moral stance.
>>144655918Ok buddy retard.
>>144655353>I don't know what this has to do with neopuritanIt's clear he's trying to pull a Carozza and say how much he hates pedos to deflect.>The devil wasn't jerking off btw, he was playing Rust and getting door dash all dayThere was a box of tissues next to him. Because you can't be American without being ashamed of sex.
>>144655940This isn't really going to work since appealing to America means pissing off China, and China is a MUCH larger consumer of Japanese media than America is.
>>144655647>>144655853>>144655957>coomerLeave smiling fags. Reddit tourists who hate sex and eroticism aren't welcome on a legit porn site.
>>144655998Is your name Dhalsim? Because I've never heard anyone reach this hard
>>144655928And yet it works for Japan. Funny that huh?
>>144656000Oh goodie, a system choked out by Chinese censorship and social pressure as opposed to the American variant. Are you honestly putting any hope in the CHINESE to save you?
>>144656047Go post on /aco/ if you want a legit porn site. Posting porn on a blue board gets you banned dumbass
>>144656047Nah, I've been here long before you, and I'll still be here long after you've trooned out and 41'd yourself faggot.
>>144656090Literally>it's okay when Japan does it!
>>144656105Yet I can still post ass and tiddies. Interesting huh?
>>144656103Bro, I don't know if you realize this, but Chinese weebs are just as weird and horny as Japanese otaku are.Pic related is from a Chinese game.
>>144656124Then stop telling us about it and do it
>>144656103The Chinese aren't puritans. They believe in eroticism in art.
>>144656103Time is almost up, prepare for CHANG.
>>144656136>Chinese weebs>>144655273
>>144654338>jap adult animation LmfaoThe nerve of this ironic weeb to say that when the entire world is laughing at the gooners jerking off to the fat fetish elf anime
>>144656159No, in this instance weeb is the appropriate term, and that's my post you're linking to, retard.
>>144656178Jesus how many people are actually in this thread?
>>144656122And China!>>144656136Why do Americans hate horny so much?
>>144656140Gladly! As a bonus, it will scare off the fujoshits aka the SF fanbase.
>>144655273>I'm not going to pay much attention to someone who clearly doesn't know what the term "weeb" means.Nobody should pay attention to what people in east vs west threads say.
>>144656141>>144656158>CHINA NUMBAH 1Pathetic. I guess you coomers are just too easily please. All the commies need to do is plop some safe horney slop on your plate and you're totally down for censorship and homogenisation>>144656136Homogenous safe horney slop dude..it all looks the same, it's all designed to keep you nice and complacent.
>>144656284I mean if it came down to censorship with horny vs. censorship without even horny...
>>144656284>Homogenous safe horneyI don't think a loli dressed like a stripper with dollar bills sticking out of her booty shorts riding a motorcycle that says "bitch" counts as safe horny.
>>144654937SJWs werent a thing in the 60s. Puritans were. The neoSJWs are just as bas as the ols puritans
>>144656226I was expecting actual ass and titties, not this softgore gif from 2004
Ralph Bakshi was extremely niche even for his own animation interests, he was a lucky freak of nature that happened to stumble in and stumble out of animation with a few feature films. Two, Disney. People think animation is for children so it therefore becomes a children's subject. Three because the film industry is extremely uninterested in new or original ideas, its why there's nothing but remakes, sequels and prequels on TV.
>neopuritan schizo fused with an EvW thread >it's pure cancerThe horror...the horror...
>>144656301This. I would be pro-censorship if it meant I still have porn. There's a reason people like China over Hong Kong.
>>144656384There is no saving these people, the have fully embraced the addictions and mental illness. Wehn the time comes, they will do exactly what their overlords tell them to do.
>>144656405>I dont mind living in a dystopia, as long as I can jack offThe average coomer ladies and gentlemen
Nice try pilgrims, but it's my turn now! I activate my Spell Card: End of NoFap!For every ass and tiddie I post, you now take 200 points of damage to your life points!
>>144655940That's exactly my point. Even if every major manga publisher gets influenced by the west, you would still have tens of thousands of lesser publishers and doujin creators whose works become available through AI.
>>144656301>>144656405Ladies and gentlemen, I give you safe horney, in all it's pliable, weak willed misery.
>>144656432>implying we're not living in a dystopia right fucking nowI'd take a dystopia with porn over Pride shit.
>>144656173One of the most respected work of adult animation is Cowboy Bebop and you have so much more interesting and varied jap adult animation compared to american one.
>>144656470Anon, we can have both. Pornhub and plenty of other sites are operational and can show you whatever cisgender kink you have, and trans people can also exist
>>144656477>One of the most respected work of adult animation is Cowboy BebopIronically respected by Americans. It wasn't a flopped but it didn't have the same prestige in Japan compared to the US.
>>144656496>Pornhub and plenty of other sites are operational>he hasn't heard about the porn bans
>>144656504>It wasn't a flopped but it didn't have the same prestige in Japan compared to the US.It was one of the best selling series back then in Japan. Anyway Satoshi Kon was one adult animation director that is equally respected in both countries.
>>144656496>trans people can also existThe same trans people who want to fuck over straight people and send us to another age of puritanism? Those trans people?
>>144656528No, I haven't heard about any porn bans because I'm not a coomer like you are. Or maybe I am, because I already have a hard drive with hentai of different franchises and my own personal kinks, just in case something like that did happen. I'm also not going to get offended if someone says "hey maybe you shouldn't jack off every hour"
>>144656541>It was one of the best selling series back then in Japan.Again, it wasn't a flop and it did sell well but it didn't have the same admiration people give it in America. It was just another good anime in a line up of good anime.
>>144656563What are you talking about? Trans people are some of the most kinky, porn obsessed people I've met. If anything, they're fighting the neopuritans that want to ban porn and any kind of degeneracy
>>144656463Do you intent to pay them for those AI translations? Even if you do find a way to make that work, how are all of these small publishers suppose to be able to survive on the pocket change of a few dedicated fan bases? Tens of thousands of publisher won't exist; in reality, only a few dozen smaller companies might be able to scrape by.
>>144656541>Anyway Satoshi Kon was one adult animation director that is equally respected in both countries.Meanwhile they have Zach Hadel in the US...lmao.
>>144656606Zach is pretty cool but doesn't even begin to touch Kon.
>>144654338Historically - around the turn of the 20th century you had two major alternatives to the classical theatrical tradition in Europe and North America: The Vaudeville - which was generally family-friendly, usually broken into light musical segments, moral vignettes, and comedic sketches; and The Burlesque - which was generally more risqué, often concentrated more on parody, adult satire, and raunchy content.Around the late 20s you had three major studios producing animated shorts: Fleischer, Disney, and Warner Bros. All three made predominantly Vaudevillian shorts early on, mostly short musicals or adaptations of children's fables. As the 30s unfolded, Disney doubled-down on the Vaudevillian, making more light-hearted musical shorts and transitioning into adaptations of classic children's literature. Warner Bros. leaned hard into the Burlesque with Merrie Melodies and Looney Tunes, which were heavy on satires of popular culture and more adult jokes and slapstick. Fleischer couldn't really make up their minds - experimenting with some Burlesque concepts like the Betty Boop, while also trying to replicate Disney's success with adapting classic stories like Gulliver's Travels, as well as adapting pulp stories and comics like Superman and Popeye. Ultimately their indecision and poor management led to strikes, a falling out between owners, and the collapse of Fleischer, which was purchased by Paramount, and rebranded as Famous Studios in the early 40s, and ultimately closed down for good in the 60s.So coming out of the WWII era, Western animation is pretty squarely split into two camps: The Vaudeville (Disney) and The Burlesque (Warner Bros.), and this divide basically defines Western Animation for the next 50 years (it's also worth pointing out that a similar divide can be found in newspaper and magazine comics of the era, but that's a conversation for another day).
>>144656579ntahttps://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/03/14/porn-texas-shut-down/72976270007/tl;dr seven states have essentially put up blockers with forced age verification. Its also why Republicans are saber rattling about a porn ban for some Project 2025 shit that will never be fucking legal.
>>144656595>Trans people are some of the most kinky, porn obsessed people I've met. If anything, they're fighting the neopuritans that want to ban porn and any kind of degeneracyOnly the gay shit. They'll gladly sell straight men down the road to get rid of "male gaze" but keep up the degenerate gay porn.
>>144656606You're as obsessed with Zach as Guy is with John K. Please learn about auto exification and get the bad ending
>>144656629Enter Japan. Post-WWII Japan was in a major reconstruction, and was rapidly adopting culture from the United States, which occupied the country until the early 50s. The early Japanese animators were being exposed to American comics and American animation, but this exposure was second-hand, and didn't come with the same cultural baggage that comics and animation had in the West. This left Japan free to apply all of the ideas and techniques and technologies developed by Western comics and animation while being free of existing conventions. They could experiment with new styles, new genres, and target new audiences. They could still make family friendly stories or bawdy young adult comedies, but they could also make romance series marketed to young girls or serious action stories for young men or melodramas for adults, etc.Western Comics and Animation are starting to learn from Japan's own path, but they're unfortunately not taking enough of the right lessons from the experience and are still largely constricted to those persisting traditions of Vaudeville and Burlesque with only a few films and series breaking the mold. We're getting there, but a lot of old-guard studio executives locked into this old duality-thinking are going to have to die off first.
>>144654561>There was a period of time where the heroes HAD to win over the villainsYou're implying that the protagonist in anime and manga never wins
>>144656632And people argue in these threads that America isn't built on religion. Notice how it's all Republicans putting up bans>>144656641Like how you only care about straight porn and gladly sell gay people down the road to get rid of "pride shit"? Same shit, different side
>>144656648>>144656629Thanks for the effort
>>144654338Actual answer: Animation and comics have been widely considered kid mediums in America for decades. By the time American companies woke up to this not being the case, Japan had already become an international force in animation and comics and had already became America's supplier of animation and comics for people older than 10. Also the sex stuff people are debating is funny because while America is never going to make Kawaii Anime Boobfetsu, America will also more than likely never make something along the likes of Frieren or Dungeon Meshi that's far more tame but still entertaining.
>>144656667No, but the Comics Code FORBID America publishers from having villains have any kind of victory. Let alone the fact that horror and crime comics were pretty much banned after WWII, something as basic as a bad ending wasn't allowed until the late 60s
>>144656629>>144656648Finally, eastern and western conversation that isn't pants on head retarded.
>>144656629>>144656648Far too much good effort and history to waste on such a miserable, pathetic thread
>>144656704>America will also more than likely never make something along the likes of Frieren or Dungeon Meshi that's far more tame but still entertaining.That's anime specifically for the neopuritan crowd.
>>144656730It can be copy pasted and reused.
>>144656629>>144656648BTW solid post.
>>144656704It's really a multi layered question, as you're talking about the cultural changes in two very different countries. I think the true evolution is the fact that anime can make something like Delicous Dungeon and have it be a wide success, while still be 'adult' (blood, boobies, violence, Senshi panty shots). I don't normally like saying Avatar as a comparison, but that is a cartoon that is fairly 'adult' in terms of talking about war and mental health. I guess people can only ever see 'adult' cartoons as 'cartoons with big boobies and asses'
>>144656680>And people argue in these threads that America isn't built on religionNo one argued that, it's more that people are ignoring the SJWs of today. Life would be so much better if religion didn't exist.>Notice how it's all Republicans putting up bansThat's why you need to vote for Kamala in the elections. Unlike Republicans, Democrats never take your porn away.
>>144656629>>144656648>the divide in western animation between kids-stuff and adult comedy goes all the way back to stage traditions in postbellum americanot sure i completely buy it, but that's a helluva thesis
>>144656804>I guess people can only ever see 'adult' cartoons as 'cartoons with big boobies and asses'Considering that atla had people all over the internet praising it as an cartoon that can be enjoyed by adults with the less literate ones considering it on par with LOTR I would say that people don't have that perception.
>>144654516Holy shit kill yourself already schizo.
>>144656822Nta but read some old animation books made by people that worked on Disney. That anon is pretty correct.
>>144656804>>144656852If anything, we need more people to see adult animation as big asses and tits. Avatar is boring as fuck.
>>144656375>>144656629>>144656648>failing to bring up puritanism then and nowMore deflection.
>>144656680>Like how you only care about straight porn and gladly sell gay people down the road to get rid of "pride shit"? Same shit, different sideNah, straight men are the natural order of things. Pride shit is the anomaly.
>>144656632This is why need to fight to keep our porn safe. Look at how many people have fallen.
>>144656942Bakshi made his shit in the 70s and 80s back when the Catholic Church and others still had some serious sway. Also it was when WAP was active you dumbshit.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_Against_Pornography
>>144656621>Zach is pretty coollmaoAnd yeah that's my point; America has no Satoshi Kon. I wonder why people visit this board when cartoons and comics are so pathetic.
>>144657008>women are the root of all evilIt all makes so much sense...by god.
>>144656082Just wait until the expose drops
>>144654338>jap adult animation>evolveit has only devolved since the 90s and early 2000s
Bakshi'scl style is largely ugly.
>>144657069Silence western shill.
>>144657011Kill yourself schizo
>>144657069Even if that was true my question was obviously asking why it evolved differently in the 80s, 90s and 00s.
>>144657097Because Asians are less repressed than the average white person.
>>144657069Anime peaked in the alte 2000's - early 2010's.
>>144657082That's just the west. In Asia, they actually design their characters to resemble living people and are thus much sexier. Uglier characters reflect American's puritan roots and hatred of all things sexy.
>>144656354>he says while posting softcore shitKP is the epitome of safe horny btw
>>144656629>>144656648>>144656942It's a good post yeah but it localizes the matter too much as an inter-industry thing and ignores the obvious influence of the drastically different cultural roots of the two nations and their attitudes of sexuality.
>>144657172That's because the anon was once again trying to deflect. Notice how any time people bring up sexuality they try to steer the conversation around?
>>144656942>>144657172>>144657203Or maybe the answer to OP's question simply doesn't have to do with eroticism and is explicitly an industry problem?
>>144657172>ignores the obvious influence of the drastically different cultural roots of the two nationsI really wish the US could be more like Asia. That's how you run free countries.
>>144657155Tit for tat, my friend
>>144657045Or you could just watch Sleepycabin and find out from there (Psst... Shaman was also on Sleepycabin like 4 times and no one gave a shit)
The most active threads on /co/ are:>several story time threads>a stonetoss thread>several threads made by some schizo crying about zach>several threads about the might magiswords creator being arrested for CPThis board is so dead kek.
>>144657321That might explain why he's suddenly become so anti porn; try to had his past now that he has a show to run.
>>144656957Funny, because you act like a total faggot anyways
>>144657228Cultural background influences every development. True the different starting points influenced the industries but the degree of lewdness percolating anime and manga (especially the neoteny involved) would never fly for general viewing in US toons and comics. Sexuality perception isn't just different in animation, you see it in the two societies in general.
>>144657331>several threads about the might magiswords creator being arrested for CPIt's complete concern trolling given that /co/ barely gave a shit about that show even for waifus.
>>144657331I wish I didn't post in this thread. I thought this was going to be an actual thread about animation styles, but instead it's just about porn or whatever
>>144657391see>>144657369Sexuality is inherently linked to animation. I'm sorry you're too much of a prude to get that.
>>144657414If that's the case, did you watch Nimona that's about transhumanism and sexuality?
>>144656804I used Dungeon Meshi as an example of anime that didn’t rely on sex appeal to be successful. The main draw is the funny dungeon journey, not the characters being sexualized. Also Avatar still being mentioned as the only time America got it right with a story based show after nearly 20 years is pretty damning.
>>144657369>True the different starting points influenced the industries but the degree of lewdness percolating anime and manga (especially the neoteny involved) would never fly for general viewing in US toons and comics.Why are you so hyperfocused over the lewdness of animation over actual historical background?
>>144657414No one ITT but (you) cares.Shouldn't you be gooning to some scat porn rn?
>>144657432At least not straight male sex appeal. There were plenty of people hoping the show would be about Falin and Marcielles lesbian journey and their shared heartbreak
>>144657432>The main draw is the funny dungeon journey, not the characters being sexualizedYes because it's meant to appeal to a neopuritan crowd. The characters not being sexualized should be a concern.
>>144657440huhh? I am talking about incorporating cultural context when talking about the development of adult animation. Making it purely an industry analysis is reductive.
>>144657444There's over two hundred posts in this thread. Clearly others care.
>>144657331Stonetoss threads are only active because it's an entire discord or them constantly reposting them
>>144657475>talking about the actual industry and how it become what it is reductive because it isn't crying about prudes
>>144657506You are retarded.
>>144657487Does anyone still care about rock throw after he was revealed to be the world's whitest spic?
>>144657475>cultural contextThe post literally brought vaudeville and burlesque as cultural contexts in how animation was shaped and how the lack of baggage helped Japanese animation flourish.It really seems like you skimmed over it because anon didn't focus on sexuality.
>>144657444>>144657519
So what I'm getting from this thread is "comics and cartoons don't make my peepee hard like anime, therefore American society is bad." This board really knows how to fuck up discussion.
>>144657458tl: gooner that needs everything to be goon material. no deviation allowed.
>>144657285Zach and the other republicans must be shaking by now.
>>144657565The entire development of adult animation and sexual content in toons is not solely traceable to early models or lack thereof. There's a very obvious rift between a more repressive society of America and a generally unconcerned Japan as to how the topic was taken and continues to be seen and published.
>>144657633>>144657519
>>144657633see>>144657656
>>144657656>The entire development of adult animation and sexual content in toons is not solely traceable to early models or lack thereof.Your problem is that you keep conflating adult animation with inherently sexual content, even though people have pointed out there is adult/mature anime with little to no sexual content.
>>144657643>still hasn't posted actual pornYou are the safe horny you keep on talking about
>>144657656>as to how the topic was taken and continues to be seen and published.You're the only one who took the topic this way and continue to push it in this direction itt.
>>144657706Anon this thread is obviously talking about sexual content.
>>144657450Nigga, it’s a show about saving someone from a dragon and then uncovering the secrets of a dungeon. Not every anime and manga is based around a fucking romance plot. /co/ has this very weird idea of what anime and manga is.
>>144657735I wasn't saying I watched it for that, just that dykes on twitter were thirsty over the Falin bath house scene, and Chrimea Falin overall
>>144657677extreme retardation
>>144657732This thread was talking about adult animation in general, you saw Ralph Bakshi and saw that as an opportunity to go on rant about sexuality in America.
>>144657735>>144657756Yeah it's a neopuritan anime. It's not what normal watch for their pleasure so it's not exactly a good metric.
>>144654338All modern 'adult' animation comes from hacks poorly imitating Bakshi, what are you talking about? Exact same depraved postmodernist humour and gross-out ethos used to critique American culture. Same jokes and writing for 50 years.
>>144657725Neither have you.
>>144657788>not what normal watchOkay ESL, thank you for your input
>>144657770>This thread was talking about adult animation in generalNo, it was a sexual content thread. This is the reasonable normal assumption. The first post took it this way >>144654469
>>144657793Anon this is about sexual content, not whatever the fuck you're on about. None of them have ever matched Bakshi's horniness. See here for retards.>>144657826
>>144657788you dont know what any of the words you use mean.
>>144657758Extreme neopuritanism>>144657834Are people going to stay on topic and actually discuss the topic.
>>144657807I'm not the one complaining about violence in movies and sex on TV. I'm content with the blue boards staying as safe horny, and if you want to join me on /aco/, you can actually post tits and vagina without getting banned
>>144657853being called a puritan by someone who like you is a compliment
>>144656704>>144656804I think we'll see American animation start to experiment more as the 21st century continues. Japanese animation is still putting out some bangers like Dungeon Meshii and Made in Abyss, but it's also suffering from a much broader stagnation, partly due to a weaker generation of new artists who've let a lot of the techniques pioneered by the animators of the 80s and 90s lapse and be forgotten, as well as a larger lack of creativity (the endless piles of forgettable samey isekais and slice-of-life shows). The US has its own problems with a lack of creativity, especially the Hollywood industry. But, to the credit of American animators, there have been a number of shows that have come out in the last ~20 years have been willing to try and push the envelop of what a Western animated show can be just a little farther. BTAS, Samurai Jack, ATLA, Adventure Time, Gravity Falls, Steven Universe, etc., etc. - all of these shows changed Western animation a little bit at the time.We can agree or disagree about which of those changes have been good or bad, and we can joke about all the copycats of "kids' show... but serious!!" over the last decade, but it's important to recognize that something that seems as trivially obvious and overdone to us now as a show for an adolescent audience including serious character drama or serialized mysteries and story arcs seemed impossible for a Western animated show 30-40 years ago. Western animation IS changing - slowly, yes, and not without some bumps and missteps, but I think eventually, if we can get away from this false-dichotomy that animation is either kiddie stuff or dick and fart jokes, we'll see far more animators in the West who will be willing to try new genres, target new audiences, and so on, and I think you could see the pendulum swing from East to West eventually.
>>144657826>OP never mentions sexual content and even clarified as such>dumb retard saw Bakshi and started going off about sexuality>this is somehow a reasonable assumption
>>144657458you're even more of a totalitarian then the "neopuritan" boogeyman you bitch about.
>>144657898>deflecting from sexuality and eroticism yet again>deep throating Western animation to make anime look badThis board really is retarded.
>>144657533Yes, he is still funny and makes lefties cry.
>>144657917Yes. It's a sex thread. We're talking about sex. Sorry you went off a big effortpost analysis while missing the crucial point.
>>144657930>>144657898see>>144657956Once again Americans show how afraid of sex they are.
>>144657956>Yes. It's a sex thread. We're talking about sex.>We
Kill industrycuck. Behead industrycuck. Roundhouse kick industrycuck into the concrete. Slam dunk industrycuck into the trashcan. Crucify filthy industrycuck. Defecate in industrycuck's food. Launch industrycuck into the sun. Stir fry industrycuck in a wok. Toss industrycuck into an active volcano. Urinate into industrycuck's gas tank. Judo throw industrycuck into a wood chipper. Twist industrycuck's head off. Report industrycuck to the IRS. Karate chop industrycuck in half. Curb stomp industrycuck. Trap industrycuck in quicksand. Crush industrycuck in the trash compactor. Liquefy industrycuck in a vat of acid. Eat industrycuck. Dissect industrycuck. Exterminate industrycuck in the gas chamber. Stomp industrycuck's skull with steel toed boots. Cremate industrycuck in the oven. Lobotomize industrycuck. Mandatory retroactive abortions for industrycuck's subhuman, drug addicted CUNT of a "mother". Grind industrycuck in the garbage disposal. Drown industrycuck in fried chicken grease. Vaporize industrycuck with a ray gun. Kick industrycuck down the stairs. Feed industrycuck to alligators. Slice industrycuck with a katana.
>>144657974once again a gooner wants to force everything to be goon material
>>144657954He was never funny, and he was never white
>>144657822>>144657842This is literally a sex thread. We're talking about sex here. If you're going off on a tangent about something with zero sexual content, I'm going to assume you're a neopuritan. If I didn't respect the mods, I'd spam porn to spite you.
>>144658010Once again, a neopuritan wants to scrub all visages of sexuality from the planet. You know this explains why people keep spamming Dungeon Meshi itt.
>>144658078once again a gooner doesnt have the mental capacity to understand anything that's not goon material has the right to exist too
>>144657898>bangers like Dungeon Meshiikys
>>144656680>Zach also has right leaning tendencies>also against porn>has referenced independent and Republican party members in a positive lightHMMMMMMMMMMM
>>144658096That's literally against the tenants of art. Miyazaki has spoken out against this ideology.
>>144658030No please, spam porn just to spite me. Prove to me how disgusted I am by ass and titties. In fact, post gay porn just to spite me even more, as I'm sure you have plenty saved
Toons are seen as a medium for children's media so sex and nudity in toons is a bizarre aberration.
>>144654338>Why didn’t Ralph Bakshi have more successors?Because they all either fucked off or have been exposed as creeps. Also the industry became more restricted again.
>>144658111What the fuck are you talking about? Zach openly said in 2016 "I really don't want Trump to be president". He also isn't against porn, you're only """source"""" is a fucking tissue box
>>144658126totalitarian control freak
>>144658158The virgin cartoon vs the chad anime.
>>144657992>>144658025Based, please do this for all of the neopuritanschizo threads.
>>144658030oh no cartoon tiddies and vulvas. oh the horror.
>>144658203They do and they always get taken down by the mods while the threads stay up.
>>144654338Why are western animation fans so desperate for cartoons to be "taken seriously" the way anime is, but also resent the idea of cartoons doing anything that makes western animation more like anime to actually help facilitate it?
>>144657942>>144657974Reducing the entire argument to BEWBS ignores a myriad of other, far more interesting points of discussion.If all you're looking for is to talk shit about Americans for their prudishness, go make a thread on /pol/ or /int/ like everyone else.
>>144657898>partly due to a weaker generation of new artists who've let a lot of the techniques pioneered by the animators of the 80s and 90s lapse and be forgottenActually there are new guys that got into the anime industry in the last decade: the director of odd taxi, id invaded, sonny boy and they all have plans for new stuff >~20 years have been willing to try and push the envelop of what a Western animated show can be just a little farther. BTAS, Samurai Jack, ATLA, Adventure Time, Gravity Falls, Steven UniverseI don't doubt that there will be new adult western shows with more unique approaches but the stuff that you've mentioned matters jack and shit when CN has stopped making such shows. Same with Nickelodeon.
>>144658251It's just trolls. The reality is that 90% of /a/ and /co/ don't give a shit who makes something as long as there's good characters and good writing. But, there's a vocal minority of posters whose entire existence revolves around stoking East vs West flamewars and they show up in a million threads a year on /co/ and /a/ trying to start shit.
>>144658251I think its because it's too apple and oranges. Or another way to look at is why don't anime fans hold respect for cartoons? Why isn't there more Family Guy tier adult anime? Although both are animation, one caters to one group and vice versa. I think the only true 'adult' animation comes from dedicated artists, people who make projects that they are passionate about, that aren't afraid to tackle dark subject matter. Fanservice is really a small piece of that pie, and something I don't particularly enjoy in anime. If it's something like Heavy Metal, that's part of the art, the expression to have boobs as part of the piece.It's like looking at the statue of David and saying that it's safe horny or whatever, as opposed to the sculpted piece of artwork that it is
>>144658170He literally said people with fetishes are losers; hypocritical given the company he keeps and a bad look when your fanbase is horny.
>>144654338Christfags. Did you miss out when the government practically forced comics to be morality plays for children? Hell even today, broadcast TV still have have the same strict rules they had 50s years, you just don't feel it because the boomers can't pass laws fast enough to keep up with streaming
>>144658458When did he say this? I know Chris and Zach have mentioned that they're both pretty vanilla in that they don't like butt stuff the way other members of sleepycabin did, but I dont think he said people with fetishes are losers. Maybe if you abandon your wife and kids to role-playing as a 10 year-old girl as a 50 year-old man, but that I think is an extreme
>>144658373>I don't doubt that there will be new adult western shows with more unique approaches but the stuff that you've mentioned matters jack and shit when CN has stopped making such shows.I feel streaming services have picked up the slack in recent years even with their misses. Adult Swim also got more ambitious when they partnered up with Genndy.
>>144658527we'll see if that trend holds
>>144658505>side eyes smiling friendstrust me, we've been known
>>144658505>ChristfagsGod Christianity and it's effects on humanity have been a disaster to society.
>>144656477>>144656504>One of the most respected work of adult animation is Cowboy Bebophttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiGMremuJYI
>>144658562https://youtu.be/Ep1oktyqBpc?si=x-3knICjLykTX66uLuckily there's a family guy...
>>144655261I mean, that's not necessarily a bad thing. A good writer, writes a good story that gets some attention, a good artist reads that story and wants to draw it, they reach out and work with the writer to come up with a good pitch for the a full on comic/show. Ideally that's how it should work, Genndy has proved multiple times that being a kino artist and character designer doesn't necessarily make you a good plot writer.
>>144658645Fuck writer shows.
>>144654338Extremely high population density means adult animation and any other form of niche product can survive on personal sales (in this case, VHS or DVD) either through stores or cheap national shipping. America being extremely spread out means there isn't as much viability for niche products to survive the same way.
>>144658546Kill yourself
>>144658251Honestly the people who want to be taken seriously are just pretentious assholes. Trying to appeal to normies is what has been killing most of media for the last decade. We need weirdo writing weird and interesting shit to be entertained, like seriously, you look into all the greatest worms that have come out in the last 40 years, like 90% of the artists behind them were either mentally ill or high functioning autists who managed to spin their hyperfixation into something interesting.
>>144658823I think the real problem is an overabundance of media in general, with not only a lack of quality for the sake of quantity, but people putting too much personal investment into entertainment as a whole.
>>144656680>>144656821damn, the election astroturf really isn't subtle.
Steven and his gang of chads have managed to satisfy everyone thanks to their dicks. Smiling Friends went out of business; Mr. Boss killed himself in despair!
>>144660054It sucks that we're out of a job and our boss committed game over but…hey, at least there's little to no moms around here! No cuck shed and Nintendo Switch for us!
>>144660096Gee, aren't you fellas just damn lucky?
>>144660117Hey man, you getting cucked was a long time coming. It was going to happen with or without Steven, Finn, Marco, and Dipper.
>>144660145I walked right into that one…
