Let's talk about this, /co/.Is there any hope for the X-Men family of comics? Ultimate X-Men has shown with both sales and critical reception that there's a huge audience out there who are into the X-Men concept without the depressing shit that Marvel has decided the mainline comics must always wallow in. I'm sure they're eventually going to fuck UXM up or not learn the right lessons from it, but I can dream, can't I? I kind of wish the tone and optimism of the new Ultimate line can bleed over into the mainline comics the same way the cynicism of the original Ultimate comics took over the 616 books. But I dunno.I think the market and the audience is definitely out there for a new take. We've had 25 years of mutant genocide, you'd think that would be enough.Not advocating some RETVRN to the 80s shit by the way just using an iconic cover.
>>144667747I think you're onto something, but the conflict of Mutants being persecuted is at the core of the concept of X-Men.I just think that X-Men as a book with ongoing continuity has basically been drained dry, between Claremont, Simonson, all the hack writers of the 90's, Morrison, Hickman, up to today, it feels like everything has been done with the book that could possibly be done and there's nowhere else to go other than repeating old story arcs and concepts.I do think X-Men '97 did a good job of re-focusing the core concept of the series though.
>>144667747>Is there any hope for the X-Men family of comics? Ultimate X-Men has shown with both sales and critical reception that there's a huge audience out there who are into the X-Men concept without the depressing shit that Marvel has decided the mainline comics must always wallow in.>Ultimate X-Men>Not depressingYou cannot go and claim this when this has been appearing at the end of the first two issues and the next issues after features an abusive father who beats his wife and kicks his daughter out for daring to stand up against him and another teenager who engages in prostitution and fries the brain of one of her clients
>>144667808>and there's nowhere else to go other than repeating old story arcs and concepts.Seeing the current crop of writers speak reverently of how Dark Phoenix Saga and Days of Future Past are great stories that can always be revisited made me recoil in disgust NGL
>>144667747Hard reboot. No really. Burn it all down.
>>144668129This is kind of where I'm at, too. Would also allow Marvel to fix the sliding timescale issue of Magneto's origins.
>>144668167Among countless other things
>>144667747Just reboot. I tried Ultimate but it sucked. X-Men was cool and could be cool today but it's not.
>>144667747Hope for the X-Men has been lost since at least the 90s. Either Marvel actually progresses mutants that isn't just another ethnostate/genocide event, or as >>144668129 said and just reboot it all completely.
You can't "just reboot" something that's set on the literal same earth as everything else. At beast you can Heroes Reborn them onto a new earth and start over there.
>>144668219>X-Men was cool and could be cool today but it's not.t.person who didn't read a single x-men comic since 2019
>>144667747SEX with Storm, Polaris and Jean.
>>144668129>Hard reboot. No really. Burn it all down.They should reboot spider-man also 616 is such a mess.
>>144667747>We've had 25 years of mutant genocide, you'd think that would be enoughSad thing is, the writers prefer it that way, and the fans sadly enable them in it despite all their complaining about it. See, ever since the X-men have basically become the face of an entire demographic rather than just a superhero team, the X-men books have basically become addicted to the escalation of conflicts, so anything happening to the X-men must also by proxy also affect the rest of the mutants and vice versa. They can't just have the X-men teams broken up or have a few lose their powers, they have to depower EVERY MUTANT (except those that matter). They can't just blow up the X-men's base and call it a day, they gotta blow up all the other mutant safe havens too. And they can't just spirit away the X-men via a crazed jesus looking incel leaving the rest of the mutants defenseless, he's gotta spirit away EVERYONE he possibly can.The thing is they have to deescalate, but doing so would mean either dropping the focus on "the fate of the entire mutant race" aspect or mitigating the impact the dramatic events have to just the X-men and their villains. And nobody's willing to do that. And they never will. So we'll be here for mutant genocide for years to come because Marvel's struck a winning formula of rebuilding the native reservation only to bemoan the horrible evil violent racist nazis that burned it down to the ground along with all the women and children...and then get right back to rebuilding, all while covering up the matches and propane tanks.
>>144667747not with brevoort
>>144667747ultimate x-men is crap. X-Men 97 was something. X-Men 97 proved that X-Men are the BEST franchise Marvel ever had. But in order to make it work, you cannot alienate the audience, and you have to strive for idealistic goals.tl;dr - stop cynical x-men, restart idealistic X-Men, and you have a breadwinner
>>144667747>post a reprint comic from the 70s reprinted in the 80s>thinks this is 80s comics>says it's not an endorsement for a return to "80s shit"Look retard, you know nothing about the comics so knock your embarassiing self
>>144667808he's not onto anything samefag. he wants bland cookie cutter capeshit. X-Men are not that, X-Men were never that. They had Thunderbird died on his first mission, they had Phoenix become evil and die. They had Magneto, their biggest foe become correct over time, they had concentration camps and whatsnot. As I said before, it's not the themes, it's not the edginess. The point is that X-Men, are hopeless idealists. They believe to be the bridge between the extremism, and they want to stop the madness.Pic related is what made X-Men what they are today - pathos, message, and suffering
>>144668167jews are untouchable, the best you can count on is magneto being a survivor of some ambiguous holocaust, but it will never stop being jewish
>>144668934The problem are not the fans, because they support the books and enjoy the franchise. The problem is that /co/ kvetches about not muh x-men despite themselves saying that they never liked x-men to begin with. Stop kvetching about and accept that this is not for you
For all the shit that Rosenberg rightfully gets, he nailed X-Men perfectly in that single page. I don't think brevoort gets it, and I don't think anyone is able to do that (especially Landwhale formerly known as Gail Simone)
>>144668819Just reboot 616. Who's gonna complain? "How could you remove the iconic storyline OMD?"
>>144669016Nostalgiafags are so delusional
>>144669137you are the one who is delusional. I myself was surprised with the reaction that X-Men 97 had. I doubt season 2 will uphold the expectations, but yes, X-Men 97 was a fucking miracle
>>144669079You know the phrase "vote with your wallet"? That's what the fans do every time they buy the books involving the storylines involving mutant genocides. If they stopped buying, they'd stop printing them. End of story.>Stop kvetching about and accept that this is not for youRight, cause all these mutant genocides are just so artsy and meaningful and everyone else who doesn't like them are clearly low level plebs who just don't get it unlike you, lol
>>144669016They're gonna go into House of M and shit with season 2 I bet and then the audience will give up. I don't trust them to understand that people are sick of that shit.
>>144669164Not saying they are artsy, and Krakoa was basically anti-genocide trope, but oh well, some people kvetched anyway, because muties are now nazis!!!! You either like it or not, don't make it a rocket science. If you don't like it, accept it and move onto something else
>>144669189I really, really want X-Men 97 to be good. I know it's not going to be, because they fired that gay nigga with onlyfans, who surprisingly was based, of all people. But until it happens, I still want to believe
>>144669205He still wrote S2. Season 3 will likely be some speedrun of the 00s and 10s maybe ending with krakoa but I think S2 still has a chance.
>>144669193>Don't like it, move onYeah, how about "no". Thing is, I may not like the current mainline X-men books, so I just don't buy them. I'm buying and reading the Ultimate X-men book line instead cause that's the stuff I like. Same with X-Men '97, I'm watching that because it's focused more on the X-men and less on the genocide storylines beyond the usual level for a superhero comic. Basically, I already accepted the Krakoa era sucked and saved my money. And if the current era sucks harder, I'll do the same. Till then, I'm going to speak my observations on what I've seen, and tough tits if you don't like that someone doesn't like what you do.>Krakoa was basically anti-genocide tropeIf anything, it was very pro genocide, considering it framed every horrific action taken by the Council and by proxy the rest of the X-men as an all-or-nothing effort to prevent the complete extinction of the mutant race, used to justify almost any reprehensible action taken, only for it to all fall apart anyways by Fall of X.
>>144669273Thank you anon, I appreciate it
>>144669276Then continue buying ultimate x-men. Who knows, maybe you will make a difference. Vote with your wallet indeed. I wrote about my perfect x-men here >>144669056And that's it. There are thing I liked about previous runs and current run. And there things I don't like as well. But I don't make it a principle or political. I also, never wrote a post in a spider-man thread, even if I don't like the current direction of spider-books. I wish spider-fags would do the same (no, I don't accuse you of being a spider-fag, it's a general sentiment)
>>144669303I will continue to do so.>But I don't make it a principle or political....It's political to say the current direction of the X-men sucks? Since when?
>>144669319no, it's not. what I mean by political is that people who make these threads, are baiting. They don't like x-men, because they consider them "woke" or whatever. So they start threads by saying stuff like "I don't recognise x-men, they were never like that, how can we fix x-men" and so on. Don't get baited anon, you're a good person. I hate these threads, because they're obvious /pol/ larps trying to stir shit. Yes, there are many problems with x-men, but they are not what they think these are. And as you can see in this thread, they have no clue what they're talking about. X-Men should never be just another capeshit. It should be the BEST capeshit ever, the one that challenges your worldview and makes you think.
Seeing the two writers for that NYX book say they consider Morrison and Whedon's runs as iconic as Claremont's made me shiver. That's the kind of people they get to write mutant books now, I guess.
>>144669425I don't think it's going to change. It's canongood news is that they probably didn't read them, they just wrote it to get a cred in the industry
>>144669340For what it's worth, I gab about X-men this much because I still like the X-men themselves. A superhero group that's tight like a family, working with a chaotic and eclectic mesh of random abilities that can be directed into an effective fighting force far more powerful than the sum of its parts, fighting for a future where humans and mutants get along no matter how much shit they have to endure for it? I love that. If I hated the X-men in its entirely, I'd stop giving money or talking about it like I do for the current Spider-Man books. Hell, for what it's worth, even if I will list all the nitpicky flaws of the last few years, I never thought the idea of a story exploring the X-men giving up on integration in favor of going full kingmaker aka Krakoa was an inherently uninteresting one one. It was just one that wouldn't reach its full potential as the X-men's new status quo, nor was it ever going to be what the fandom thought it would be.I dunno, anon. I can't control who does and doesn't make these threads. Best I can do is try and speak my mind to see what others think, even if they disagree with me, cause disagreement means I'm at least getting a perspective outside my own head on the subject matter.
>>144668351Go suck a fart, shill.
>>144669488Here are the obstacles1) 9/11 - it really did a number on americans, they lost their idealism and became cynical2) brevoort - he doesn't care about x-men, it's a punishment for him3) writers - they fulfill they hateful fantasies, instead of promoting real unity and co-operationThe X-Men work as an outsiders, and as fun as it was to see them being hardcore nationalists, I will not mind if they go different route. However, comic books are not a high profile. People who make comics, they do whatever they really want, because they know the audience is lowSo if you want a change, you know what? I fucking hate Ultimate X-Men, but let's make it the best selling X-men comic. And you know what? I fucking hate east vs west thread, but maybe nothing will change until we do something crazy, like show these fucks that comics can sell, they just cannot be lazy. So I'm open minded for ideas,and I look into the future optimistically.There is a potential here. At worst, X-books will slog for some 3 or 4 years, before MCU will catch up, and maybe, or maybe not, they will be different.The secret to make X-books work is to give them pic related. The kryptionian word for hope. There was even an x-book called "Heroes for Hope".I don't blame people for being stupid. But I don't wait for a change either. What X-Men really need is one person, who gets it, and goes with it. But if it doesn't happen, just accept it for what it is and don't get angry about it. Enough of rant
Another, very important thing that should be raised. When readers see their favorite character being cucked, they take it personally. I will not comment on that, but it's the easiest way to make people angry. Don't cuck your characters marvel
>>144669488Co-signed.The bread and butter of the X-Men and the mutant books for the entire Claremont run (16 years) and a few years after (the Claremont wannabe runs) was first and foremost that the X-Men and their spinoff books were superhero comics where the characters acted like friends and family, like a considerably larger Fantastic Four. People who claim that it was all about the message or the big events have deluded themselves by only looking at "key" stories and famous arcs that have been re-visitied and reprinted ad nauseam. Dark Phoenix isn't what made X-Men a besteller, the fact that Claremont took his time and carefully built up the dynamic of the team and their relationship, showed how much they meant for each other, that's what made the X-Men Marvel's best-selling comic. There was NO other superhero team on the market like it and there's a reason Claremont's style of writing a team comic became so influential it became the industry standard with everything from the JLI over at DC to the Avengers at Marvel adopting the same style. People who think X-Men became big because of the allegory are utterly deluded, especially considering how much of that stuff didn't even exist when the team had its golden age in both sales and cultural impact.
>>144669578>X-Men and their spinoff books were superhero comicsnewfag. Byrne literally criticisized x-books for being soap opera drama, where characters talk about their feelings. you are one of the fake fags, who just stir shit for the sake of stirring shit. Dark Phoenix is what changed the industry, and even inspired Alan Moore, the fact that you minimize it is exactly why people should be wary of you. You do not argue in good faith. You have a set idea about what comic books as a whole should be (marvel and dc), and you will kvetch about it, because you have no desire to read these books.You are a grifter and you have no clue what you are talking about
>>144667747>Is there any hope for the X-Men family of comics?There's always hope. But when your parent company does everything it can to sabotage a brand for decades just because they're mad that a different company holds the movie rights to it (a brilliant own goal if I say so myself), it will take decades to undo that damage.
>>144669533For what it's worth, I'd always felt that if they really wanted to make X-men more interesting, they'd shove a victory into the X-men's hands and see how much it causes them to struggle to maintain it. Like if the UN released a statement that some of the top geneticists on the planet determined that mutation is a genetic disorder and not a sign of humanity's extinction. Make the X-men that were always pro-intergration happy that they're recognized as humans, make the X-men that think they'll inherently different from humanity extremely uncomfortable and unsure of their position, and make the X-men and their villains who believe mutants will replace humanity absolutely FUMING that their inferiors are declaring them on their level. Make the classic anti-mutant villains far more inflamed that science is outright discounting them, and having them clashing with new pro-mutant groups in the streets as the X-men scurry around trying to put out fires while working out where THEY stand on the matter and if they really want to see Xavier's dream fulfilled this way.But that's just me. I'm not angry at the X-men's current direction, just disappointed it's going down the usual writing style focused entirely on cynicism and "it's either them or us" style storylines, but I'm still going to speak my mind up until the point I see nothing of the X-men I want to read in the books anywhere.
>>144669578>superhero comics where the characters acted like friends and familyno they didn't, you literally had characters retiring or leaving the team. hell, X-Factor were hostile towards X-Men led by Magneto. You had X-Men dissolving and moving to australia, when they stopped being a team altogether. Same with New Mutants - they started as kids in Xavier school, then they became war soldiers under Magneto, and then they left, and became on the road. There is literally an issue #273 where storm laments that they distanced themselves from each other, where their dream differed, and even a scene where Iceman freezes toilets so boom-boom can't poop.
>>144669628I don't think they think it's sabotaging. It's that they remove people who get it, because of PR. It will fix itself, but it will take some time
>>144667747No. Not after krakoa was allowed to go so long and become....THAT. The only thing they can do with this now is to show that it was fucked up and bad some kind of way and pretty much utilize the phoenix force/mkraan to undo it. Krakoa can never be done again nor can it be allowed to infect the public conscious when it comes to the overall idea of the xmen. LIke how singers faggotry poisoned the well. All they have, all they really have is the 90's xmen and some of the good IDEAS of claremont's run. Xmen comics are pretty much fucked for the next 10 years at least. It's going to take a company wide complete reboot from scratch to fix this shit.
>>144667747What would you do if your child was a mutant?
>>144669629Krakoa was supposed to be something like it. You might not like it, but that was the point of krakoa -X-Men win, and then what? It was a good era, it gave us Gillen and I will always defend his works, but people don't really read it, and people don't really discuss the themes. It's all very tik-tok like, people post a page and get angry about it. Or just post some buzzwords and run their frustrations with it. You can't discuss comics on /co/. Every day i come here, and all I see is shit.What you discuss is okay, but here's the thing, I am tired of pseudo-scientific explanation of the mutants. I am more than okay going with brevoort. I am okay with X-Men being traditional capeshit again. But the problem is, it needs good writers and good artists, who have a scope and a vision.
>>144669629>>144669533Probably the best thing they could do would be to have every civilized nation on Marvel earth agree that mutants are human and have full human rights of protection under the law. That would also serve to strengthen the racism parallel significantly. Ditching the extinction angle is also way overdue since it's based on literal white supremacist science from the Victorian era anyway, so why espouse it in a comic about diversity?
>>144669629>"it's either them or us"These stories stopped making sense long time ago. That's why people shouldn't even get angry, because it's writers projecting themselves onto the franchise. Krakoa was good because it actually explored various aspects of their so-called culturue. Alas, at some point writers got lazy and the comics literally became "yes-men". There is a distinct point when Krakoa X-Men were promising and exciting, and when they became just a corporate mandate. It was somewhere around Swords of X
>>144669683They don't even have to do that, mind you. All they have to do is just to not write strawmen. But can we expect the modern (left-leaning - yes, I mention it, because they are like that) writers to not write strawmen. The X-Men are as good as the person who writes them. If a person writing is not capable of avoiding cliches, then we are fucked. We will have to deal with a decade of X-Men correcting pronouns. BUT if we get a writer who understands nuance, we will get kino. And maybe that's the secret of the X-Men - of what do you do with the clay you are given
>>144669629Yeah, I think there's a lot of potential looking into a world where they won.
>>144669673I read Krakoa, and I thought the point was obviously the opposite; That the X-men inherently lost because they gave up their dream and decided to listen and side with their lifelong foes for the sake of survival, who quickly went on to remind them WHY they were on opposite sides in the first place by ultimately continuing to be the same villainous assholes they always were and weakening the X-men enough to rip their utopia asunder, making them have to go back to basics aka go right back to active superheroing alongside actual superheroic individuals to take care of the threat at hand instead of hiding away in a magical bubble playing defense.At least, I thought that was obvious from how Inferno went down and the fact that was meant to be the original turning point to the entire era before they extended it.>>144669683Pretty much that. They've run the extinction angle into the ground by now, they're very overdue for something else.
>>144669728krakoa was a finale to what started in 2005 with house of m. Those who followed it, got their victory. Characters got resurrected, new culture was born. Obviously, at some point writers stopped caring and elaborating the world building and we got cliches again. What's worse, it was shut down rather quickly, because MCU. One thing that you should know - Krakoa = X-Men. During Krakoa era, the only X-Men team was lead by Cyclops, which was written by Duggan. And in-universe, it was presented by the Quiet Council as a problem, because that's not what mutant jews wanted to happen. As you can see, it was much deeper than simple capeshit. Cyclops co-operating with Ben Ulrich, as well as criticism of various Krakoan politics in X-books was left unheard. The only thing that people took from that era was>krakoa cult>sex orgy island>mutant supremacistsEVEN, if these topics were criticisized in-story and were explored. But people do not care about that. They have an opinion, and they will make a thread about it"Why X-Men are supremacists and they abandon their children in the sex orgy", even if the comic books were dealing with exactly that
>>144669749Krakoa =/= X-Menmy bad. Krakoa was a nation, and X-Men ceased to be, which was a problem that Cyclops rectified
Krakoa asked the question"Do We even need X-Men, now when we are a nation?""Do we have to be superheroes?""Do we even care?"but anons are not interested in it. What anons want is Cyclops and Wolverine defeat Stilt Man this month, and Doctor Octopus next month
>>144669749>>144669760>Krakoa =/= X-MenGood sir, you do realize you've stated the underlying flaw to the entirety of the Krakoa saga, yes?
>>144669777The flaw of Krakoa = excellent storytelling
>>144669777And yes, I am aware that some people were larping too hard on both sides, but we never really explored the ramifications of the new status quo, we only touched the iceberg. If anything X-Men Unlimited was great, because it had some of the stuff that never happened in the mainline books. I think that it's both laziness, and lack of money, because what we should had received was a full on earth x-tier dissemination of mutant topics in marvel universe. What we had was a rushed status quo that just threw away ideas, but never developed them. At least we got Ice Serve and Eye-Scream being an item
>>144669706They don't have to, but moving back to mutant racism not being something almost every person on the planet mysteriously harbors would be a good first step. As you say, it doesn't need to be explicit, as long as they do it.>>144669728>Pretty much that. They've run the extinction angle into the ground by now, they're very overdue for something else.The whole extinction thing always irks me because that is not how evolution fucking works and we have known this for much longer than the X-Men have even existed in comics. And yet we are still stuck in this hole.
>>144669794To be honest, as much as I hate bendis, at least he did introduce people who were acting like modern leftists - they were fully pro-mutants, even if they were dangerous. Comic books should reflect that - there should be group of humans who support humans no matter what. Imagine my disappointment when I read NYX - there is a scene where there is a mandatory fight in a club, and Anole loses his job, cause he's a mutie, and club gets a new policy - no muties allowed. It's tired. It's borign. But that wasn't the flaw of Krakoa, and that's the reason that Krakoa resonated so well with some of us - because it was finally something different than "see mutant, kill mutant" trope of marvel universe. I hope we understand each other
>>144669814>support humans>*support mutantssorry for that I got excited, I can finally talk with intelligent people
>>144669781Incorrect. The inherent flaw is that despite attempts by the writing staff, the X-men are not the mutant race, and the mutant race are not the X-men. Krakoa was a victory for the mutants, not for the X-men. And if you don't give a shit about the multitudes of nameless faceless mutants that never get a speaking role no matter how many times Emma Frost bitches about Genosha and victims of mutant pogroms, then Krakoa is a terrible idea cause it is quite literally the opposite of what the X-men have been fighting for all this time.>>144669792I think you have to accept that Krakoa was never MEANT to be a status quo. Hickman said as much it was to be a stepping stone to the rest of his story. Whatever value Krakoa had as a status quo was never going to jive with Earth 616. If all people wanted was a hypothetical Avalon with mutants doing civ building, they should have made it an original IP or an alternate dimension's worth of stories, not the status quo. Hell, making it the status quo for the X-men in 616 was the WORST thing they could have done to it because now they can't fucking expand the X-men too far outside what the rest of the Marvel supers are doing else it stops being "the world outside your window". FFS, the mutant wonder drugs alone pretty much mean that any other Marvel character that catches a cold or gets heart disease is immediately breaking canon in a massive way
What about mutants that hate krakoans and x-men. They think them as traitors who left their values. And maybe a plot about mutants hunting other mutants from krakoa. I think it would be a fun concept
>>144669836>I think you have to accept that Krakoa was never MEANT to be a status quo. Hickman said as much it was to be a stepping stone to the rest of his storyHickman even explicitly said Krakoa was just stage one. It would have fallen and put the mutants into an even worse position due to whatever greatert threat lay behind Orchis (which by most accounts seems to have been the Phalanx as the ultimate incarnation of AI). There's conflicting interviews from him on whether he wanted 4, 5 or 6 years of Krakoa but yeah it was definitely set up as a limited lifespan story.
>>144669836It was just another phase. I'm glad that they got through it in such an epic way. I don't think it will stop future writers from creating another krakoa, but krakoa being THE mutant nation is a good stopgap in the x-men lore.>I think you have to accept that Krakoa was never MEANT to be a status quo.Never had problem with it. I ignore hickman, because he's hickman. The question is, where do we go from that, and from what I've seen, the only idea that Marvel has is to go back to the post-morrison era. It's a curse
>>144669882Hickman said many things. He's a nigger, and he wanted Storm-BP son to be the Master of the Universe, without being a He-Man. Fuck hickman
>>144669836>I think you have to accept that Krakoa was never MEANT to be a status quoThe only people who never understood it were the people who were kvetching that "X-Men are now nazis" or something like that, but they never read x-men anyway
>>144669886I dunno about you, but I find the idea of a mutant nation boring. Same reason I've always been uninterested in the Inhumans for a while outside of individual ones. They mostly end up just aliens, but with human looks and an overall attitude that their feces smell like an aromatic candle.>where do we go from that>the only idea that Marvel has is to go back to the post-morrison eraYeah, cause that's what they've always done when they've had any kind of "mutant nation" or safe haven or alternate dimension. It's a pretty obvious pattern by now, and I refuse to believe people didn't see it coming.
>>144669909Don't worry anon, no mutant nations until MCU does it. I wish that the shills would look at what some anons posted, especially here >>144669056and understood it. This was the epitome of X-Men craze. Until you get it, you're not going to reproduce it. People do not want to war with each other. People want to understand each other, and people want to accept each other, including *white supremacists*Can the Marvel writers deal with the x-men metaphor? I think NOT
>>144669909>Yeah, cause that's what they've always done when they've had any kind of "mutant nation" or safe haven or alternate dimension. It's a pretty obvious pattern by now, and I refuse to believe people didn't see it coming.From the Ashes isn't a return to pre-Morrison. It's the same doomer stuff you got whenver they ended a status quo in the 2000s-2010s. This is more going back to post-Utopia. People who claim FTA is some kind of nostalgia relaunch have no fucking idea what they're talking about.
>>144669928You are correct, and we should call it like that. Fuck brevoort and fuck him for giving us a false hope
>>144669925For what it's worth, pic related is what I think of for the X-men, so I'm just thanking god there's not going to be any mutant nations for a while at least.
>>144669939We can still go back to that. Like I said - intelligent writer, ONE intelligent writer, and we can usher in the new era of quality entertainment that provokes you to think, instead of following the corporate slop, but then again, who owns the X-Men? Who directs the X-Men? You know what? Even if DiMayo wasn't a gayman having onlyfans, they would still find a way to fire him up, because his take on the x-men was too based and too true. God forbid humankind unites and starts to be compassionate towards each other. NO! I must hate you, because you don't think like I do! I'm angry about it!
>>144669965sorry he was DeMayo. Still, isn't it weird that he almost shared his name with a mob family DiMeo?
>>144669976FORGETABOUTIT
>>144669909>>144669939There is a 0% chance that Marvel Studios will go into a mutant nation thing with how absolutely insanely out of shape they are about Israel even now. Ethnostates don't have the gleam they did even 5 years ago and he MCU is way too overtly conscious about it to ever delve into that well. if they do it will be the mutants as villains so like Magneto establishing Genosha or something as his Israel stand-in. But not as a cool heroic thing.
>>144669965Well, until that intelligent writer comes in, I'll just keep stalking these threads and sharing my thoughts among the other anons on this board. Who knows, it may even motivate me to get off my ass to actually write the X-men story I want. Theoretically, at least. Till then, at least I know there are still some fans that get what the X-men are about.
>>144670209We should make our own canon.We should make our own comic.Imagine the surprise when our comic is more popular than marvel slop. It's not like you even need good art. It can be scribbles. Just have a heart in the story
>>144670084It probably won't be Magneto since they're so busy stapling him to Cyclops at the hip, but I can see some villain running Genosha. Maybe someone like Exxodus. Dude loves that kind of shit.
>>144668351I haven't read an X book since 2006, the year Marvel died. They've been zombie crawling since then. Heroes vs Heroes is and has always been a mistake.
>>144670336Englehart would have a word with you. For him Marvel died in 1986. But then again, Starlin had diferent idea. For him Marvel died 1977
>>144670219Might have to at some point, although I don't expect mine to get anywhere. But if it does, I'll let 4chan be the first to see and rip it to shreds.
>>144670336If only we could go back in time and stop disassembled from happening.
>>144667747>Is there any hope for the X-Men family of comics?For it to be good? Not a chance.It is fundamentally flawed and has never been good.
>>144670347Marvel died when I decided I didn't like a storyline
>>144670347Qrd
>>144670426Yes.jpg
>>144670347>Englehart would have a word with you. For him Marvel died in 1986.Oh yes the word of a man with deeply racist and misogynist beliefs, truly somebody to respect for their insight. How's that story with Crystal being raped by "feral" black men going, Steve?
>>144670441proof of him being racist? that's a new thing for me. I want to learn what he did wrong
>>144670450>his pet character Mantis is the result of a German mercenary raping a Vietnamese woman during the Vietnam war>she's raised by monks because her mom's dead and her dad doesn't want her>she tries to leave the monastery to see the world and seeks out her uncle>he turns out to the a slave ring owner and forces her to become a prostitute>she learns broken English based on racist stereotypes of Vietnamese women like saying "this one" instead of personal pronouns>is eventually rescued from prostitution by another westernerHis personal OC is a stereotype of a Vietnamese hooker with magical kung-fu and that's just the tip of the iceberg.
>>144669939It was pretty based in the original cartoon when Master Mold figures out that all humans are mutants and all mutants are humans so there was no point in distinguishing to hunt one or the other.
>>144670502ehhh that's a 70s thing, you can make him progressive if you want it. Don't go that route bro, it's not a fun rouete
>>144667747Ultimate X-Men was maybe the least cancer-tainted Ultimate title because it had no baggage, generally stuck to the core idea of the 616 characterizations and got rid of Logan as quickly as possible. 616 is fucked by its history and doing its best to forget Krakoa. nu-Ultimate's X-Men is gambling on being able to replace the entire fanbase with 16-year-old Hot Topic shoppers just discovering manga for the first time and that may not pay off in the long term for them.
>>144670723>nu-Ultimate's X-Men is gambling on being able to replace the entire fanbase with 16-year-old Hot Topic shoppers just discovering manga for the first time and that may not pay off in the long term for them.That's a more profitable demographic than 40-year men who only buy the 616 books because of outrage and investment in future keys.
>>144668041What they DID creatively can be revisited, their storylines should be off-limits and even Rachel Summers was pushing itThere are no Marvel teams who could approach what DPS and DoFP did because nothing in those stories is radical any more and the creators aren't invested in the characters like Claremont and Byrne were.
>>144668934>that last lineBeautifully put, anon
>tips le mutantdora
>>144669111Brevoort has gone on record loudly that suffering and angry fans equal sales and he is de facto the EiC on this point. I won't claim his having an untimely demise would change this overnight at Marvel, but he's the guy enforcing that narrative and so far no one's getting in his way, even Feige.The numerous character assassinations of Xavier and Cyclops without replacement figures representing hope or idealism have destroyed the book with no way out. It's telling the new Ultimate X-Men has no story or character connection to 616 or even 1610, as though editorial is terrified of going down the same route.
>>144669193>Krakoa was basically anti-genocide tropeNo, it was "it's okay when WE do it" which is not a great message under any circumstance
>>144670843BREVOOORT SHOULD GOOOOO
>>144670866Krakoa is gone, we have bright future
>>144669425They're not forgettable in terms of what they did (Cassandra Nova, Gun-Man) in the sense they left damage in their wake, but that doesn't make either run GOOD. The same logic could be applied to Chuck Austen.
>>144669557>Superman is with Diana in this rebootOk, I have reasons not to like that but let's see where it goes>We should see Clark try to get with Lois but she's fucking an alpha also from the DP to hammer home the point AND imply he's not masculine enoughEditorial approved this as-is, and 2 years later sales forced another reboot undoing it because DC doesn't do Quesada-style overshipping fake sales figures
>>144670741That remains to be seen. If true so be it but let's see the numbers by the time #10 rolls around.
>>144670874He has the power of an editor with none of the accountability. Put him somewhere he has to earn his daily bread instead of being a party line mook.
