People talk about how Wonder Woman sucks because she doesn't have>Death of>Knightfall>All Stars>Year One>Returnsbut how many heroes have them? Like do Iron Man or Captain America have them? Thor and Spider-Man?
Yeah.
>>144669935Doesn’t Wonder Woman have:Paradise LostThe Hiketeia
>>144669935Look, those three don't need them because they fundamentally work on a basic level as entertaining characters. The other NEED those stories to make their shit work.
>>144669935>People talk about how Wonder Woman sucks because she doesn't haveThen they're retards, those stories happened because Superman and Batman were iconic in the first place, not the other way around. The more iconic a character already is, the more good writers will want to do interesting stories with them.
>>144669935Iron Man did have them>>Death ofThe masters of silence arc (he died as in cryo stasis for a short time and then returned to take back his property that Justin Hammer stole)>>KnightfallDemon in a bottle (and before Batman's)>>All StarsArmored Wars>>Year OneInternational Armor>>ReturnsAfter the Onslaught war when he was saved by Reed's son
>>144669935Most heroes suck.
>>144669935thor:>Death ofUnworthy Thor run>KnightfallArguably Ennis vikings>All StarsThor corps?>Year OneGod butcher arc>ReturnsDestroyer's arm arc
What is considered necessary about those stories? That they form pillars of characterization?
>>144670162that the characters were so pointless they needed something to boost sales
>>144669958What are those?
>>144669935>Like do Iron Man or Captain America have them?Iron man did have the critically acclaimed armor wars and stane arcsHe was also present for a lot of avengers events like the korvac saga
>>144670101>International Armor?
>>144670143>>144670101Based
>>144670101>>144670242meant International Iron-Manlol
>>144669935You made this exact same thread with this exact same opening post like two days ago. You were informed then, and are now, that your premise is false. Wonder Woman sucks because she's unappealing and boring as shit.
Face it.WW is popular for being THE FEMINIST ICON and some perverts creepy child indoctrination fetish. That's it. She works best as an empty female empowerment suit women can pour whatever they want into.Giving her a concrete origin is stupid. Hell WW would work best as a canon role that the long dead civilization of Themiscera gives the best and most beloved and noble of womenJust uh....some new WW finds a woman that might be worthy and hands her the tiara rope and gauntlets and invisible chariot and she becomes the new WW.Have it so that every age there was a WW.
>>144669935Does Spider-Man have death of stories? Bit too obvious with the troll post.
>>144670463ACTUALLY the time where he was swallowed by The Other. The JMC run especially which also had a doomsday (Morlun)
>>144670231See, I think the problem is you, not Wonder Woman.
>>144669935The vast majority of superhero comics suck cocks. Batman and Superman's greatest hits are a small sample of the few exceptions to this.
>>144671250>Batman and Superman's greatest hits are a small sample of the few exceptions to this.Especially since those stories are the usual go-to for most adaptations.
>>144669958A League of OneGods + MortalsThere are also arcs, besides Paradise Lost and Gods * Mortals that people consider important.>>144670393Classic "tell me you don't read comic books" wall of text.
>>144669935no
>>144669935yes
>>144669996But if Wonder Woman is the most iconic female hero, why there's no good writers trying to do interesting stories with her?
>>144669935Death of Superman is a bad story
>>144672973Best selling author Jodi Picoult lobbied and did succeed in writing WW.Don’t you remember?
>>144671372>A League of OneA JL story>Gods + MortalsAn origins story
yesterday's thread was better
>>144673123it was famous
>>144675188so was Bill Cosbyeven ignoring the rape shit, I defy you to point to one thing of worth Bill Cosby made that was made because he was Bill Cosby and that alone would sell itGhost Dad? that's your answer? hate yourself
>>144672973>But if Wonder Woman is the most iconic female heroShe isn't. Next question?
>>144675404Then who is?
>>144675437She-Hulk
>>144675437DC among normies? Harley.>but she's not a heroDoesn't matter, she's DC's most iconic female protagonist right now.
>>144669935thor has simonson run which is literal one of greatest runs on any book. iron man was never relevant so no one cares what he does. cap has sterenko run and modern brubaker stuff was good.
>>144669935>Like do Iron Man or Captain America have them? Thor and Spider-Man?Yes. Several in fact.
>>144675855>iron man was never relevant so no one cares what he does.Shut the fuck up.Michelinie and Layton are the real Iron Man writers.
Wonder is a poor character. She just sucks.
>>144669935The Avengers fucking suck, there's a reason Marvel had the licensing for them and not Spider-Man, the X-Men and the F4
>>144675735It'll never stop being funny to me that it's entirely accurate to say Harley is more popular than Diana but no one wants to admit it
>>144676916As much as Harley represents the worst parts of toxic girlboss white girl culture, it's why she's gotten mainstream popularity among hoes. Diana is too committee-approved to appeal to anyone. In that respect, Marvel's attempts at turning Carol into their own Wonder Woman succeeded perfectly, just not in the way they wanted.
>>144676789Is the ANY way to salvage her or is she just a lost cause?
>>144677183make her a nudist and have her nude every time
>>144677028Pretty much, Harley is an accurate depiction of what a woman might view as a power fantasy, Wonder woman isnt
>>144677028They should never have changed Carol's Ms. Marvel suit. You can call her Captain Marvel to make her seem more important, but that costume is the best one she ever had.
>>144677240This.Wonder Woman is a man's fantasy of what the perfect woman is.>Beautiful and healthy>Mentally sound>Strong without sacrificing femininity>Embodies the virtues of truth, loyalty, love, and faith.>Mature and responsible>Selfless and cares about her community and the betterment of future generations.Meanwhile, Harley>Sexy but self-sabotaging.>Mentally destroyed>Strong and feminine, but has moments of slovenly or masculine behaviors.>Embodies a new vice every week.>Immature and irresponsible>Selfish. Doesn't give a shit about her community or the betterment of those around her. Only when it's convenient to do so for her own feelings.Is the embodiment of what the modern young woman wants. Absolute freedom to act up and be as whorish and angry and carefree as you want.Which is funny when you think about it. Because most men are fine with fucking a girl like Harley a few times for fun, while Diana is the woman they're proud to introduce to their family and friends, Diana is the type of woman a man will move mountains for, and Diana is the kind of woman a man will respect until the day he dies. More and more girls want to embody that Harley Quinn energy but still get the Wonder Woman treatment from men.
>>144677506>Wonder Woman is a man's fantasy of what the perfect woman is.And this is exactly why she consistently fails in the modern era, because they try to take a male fantasy and rewrite her to appeal to feminists, when feminists will never care about her and identify with Harley instead. Given this, the smartest thing to do would be to just say fine, women can have Harley, and go back to writing Diana in a way that appeals to men.
>>144675404she is, but iconic doesnt always mean popular
>>144677506>>144678014Is that why MTF trannies are obsessed with Wonder Woman and living in a full women island while FTM trannies want to be Harley Quinn and criminals?
>>144678014>Given this, the smartest thing to do would be to just say fine, women can have Harley, and go back to writing Diana in a way that appeals to men.The problem is they'll never do this and the vocal minority pretends to like her and post edits and shit of her on Twitter (but then not actually buy her books) so they'd throw a hissy fit if Diana went back to being more male oriented
>>144679138I'm sure they will cry and nothing will happen like with Kamala funeral being christian rather than muslim
>>144670143>>144675855How come Wondy can't be more like Thor ? Marvel figured out how to get the god shit working but DC is so all over the place with it
>>144678014>>144678014a lot of women don't identify with Harley either, given she's a domestic abuse victimat least, not intentionally identify
>>144679521That's why the series and the current run make it so she CHOOSE to be Harley and Joker was simply a man that stopped her from becoming queen of Gotham? Kek
>>144679301Differences in power scaling. In the Marvel universe, Thor gets to be a god among mortals. In the DC universe Thor would be an average Justice League seat-warmer.
>>144679764Really depends, Harley Quinn could beat the trinity like nothing.Power scaling in marvel got off bonkers when they decided that killing Galactus means you're stronger than street level thug
>>144679764Orion is DC Thor and he is just a jobber until they remember the Kirby estate could sue so he needs to be badass
>>144679678she's still in an abusive relationship
>>144669935Spider-Man has these:>Death ofKraven's Last Hunt>>KnightfallSuperior Spider-Man,>All-StarsMarvel Knights Spider-Man (series 1), heck, it's even 12 issues.>Year OneUltimate Spider-Man>ReturnsLife-Story
>>144669935Captain America has these:>Death ofUm... Death of Captain America>KnightfallThe rest of Ed Brubaker's run>All StarsThat's the entire Stan Lee Gene Colan run on the character.>Year OneLost track of how many mini-series retell his origin.>Returns:The Ultimates 1 & 2, or Earth X
